PLATO ON: The Forms

[@saskueify]

Wow, so Plato is asserting that ideas are as real as we are and that we can abandon or rebuild beliefs that we no longer feel fit the ideal. This is a powerful tool to understanding our minds and guiding us towards truth and understanding in life.

[@CitrusLimonade]

I love Plato. In a platonic way...

[@thesaltedlamp3444]

lol

[@dhadad9885]

Cheeky

[@yourkingdomcomeyourwillbedone]

I love Plato. Intimately...

[@Srifem]

Fruity

[@kirtiprajapati3749]

i love u

[@BigHenFor]

Thank you for explaining why referring to classical ideals is still useful today.

[@evilcam]

Woot! Back to philosophy vids! It is Plato too. You can't go wrong with vids about Plato.

[@antoniodagnino6160]

Was that Thomas Moore's Utopy at the end? Maybe you should make a video on Utopies, but do what you like, you always amaze me!

[@thompson12345]

Is the drawing of the large building with inner courtyard at the end of the video of a real building? Does it have a name? It's beautiful.

[@theleader000]

The I-Phone is Steve Jobs perfect form for a cell phone

[@Rod1712]

A set of instructions for making a very good version of something = forms

[@personone582]

What are those painted buildings at 3:12(in the background) They're beautiful!

[@fatnoodle303]

Each form of beauty's but the new disguise Of thoughts more beautiful than forms can be. Sceptics who search with unanointed eyes never the Earth's wild fairy dance shall see.

[@Patri_Fides]

*THIS ISN'T EVEN MY FINAL FORM*

[@cdeba9867]

+Jack St john lmao

[@xeeevaaa]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@johnjavier36866]

Haha, Good one.

[@oussamasabouh8654]

Frieeeeeeeezaaaaaaa

[@arby6010]

I think this video doesn't really grasp Plato's concept. Plato thought that Forms were real things... actually residing somewhere beyond our world. And everything in this world of ours is just a faint emanation of those Forms. And there is even the Form of the Good, where all these Forms emanate from - the closest thing Plato has to a God. Plato's Forms were almost mystical entities. I understand that this video tries to be practical, but it really removes a lot of weight from the concept.

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

I totally agree with you La Serpiente! I am thinking of making a video on my channel Elevated & Meaningful where I discuss the spiritual dimension of Plato's Forms. I don't like that this has been left out. Maybe I will make a video out of our discussion together because I would still like to enhance my understanding of what Plato was trying to get at actually. What do you think?

[@EwingAmaterasu]

Do you know what is the true practical application of the forms? What types of forms are there? I mean, is there a form of a rock? Or a Bed? Or forms of the compositions of each of these, and are there forms of non physical things? Like love or speed? How do we classify the forms and of what use is this for us?

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

Ricard De Virgo good question. There are schools of thought such as Plato's Forms that presupposes if there is a thing that exists in this world, let's call it beauty, then there is the "IDEAL" beauty that exists which is reality because it doesn't die. The beauty we know of in this world is but a reflection of the "IDEAL" beauty, that if it wasn't for the "IDEAL" true beauty, then we would never would have come to know of beauty in the first place. So this is what I understand. As for your question of practical application, to be quite frank, the practical application is but a reflection of the true reality. Things in this world allude to the existence of a world that doesn't pass away and die. We know of beauty as something that dies, decays, etc but the reality of beauty doesn't. So the practical application would always fall short in describing the reality of anything that is of the "Forms" according to my understanding. Does this make sense?

[@EwingAmaterasu]

Elevated & Meaningful Yes!! It does!! The forms are the archetypes of all that exists. They are non physical, eternal and perfect. Not bound to time and space, and only comprehensible by the intellect. The thing is that I want t understand the practical application of platonism to my everyday life. For example, I'm a big fan of the stoics... I basically read all of them: Musonius Rufus, Seneca, Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. The aim of life for the stoics is the happy life, by understanding that only virtue is good, only vice is bad and everything else is indifferent. From here they developed a very big system in how to carry on with life with tranquility. But... My personality goes more with things I can grasp with my intellect, not just psychological techniques. That is why I was interested in platonism. For example, a platonist, in order to obtain a happy and tranquil life: Ataraxia and Apatheia, what would they do? I read that the union with the supreme Good, or the form of the good is the only way to be happy. But how to I obtain it? How do I have to see the world in order to find tranquility? Because many talk about the theory of forms, but not of how to use the forms to obtain absolute joy.

[@jordantheconjurer]

youre right. but minus the crazy mystical metaphysics his teachings become practical. if anyone wants to appreciate the metaphysics they can go read his teachings.

[@georgedemos352]

Plato referred to the world of ideas.A metaphysical world where perfection exists. (Perfect ideas,perfect shapes etc) This perception of the supernatural was argued by Aristotle. That's why in the famous painting where the two philosophers walk in to the academy,Plato points up to the sky and Aristotle place his hand horizontally to the ground.

[@DrXaOs]

σωστοςςςςς

[@JAy-vx3vw]

Screwyouguysimgoinghome I agree

[@whatwhy106]

What about the combination of both ideas?

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

I wonder what Form a sex toy 'participates' in?

[@castrojosua]

Oh, my son, that is not what it means at all, but it's a reasonable interpretation nonetheless. As above, so below.

[@ErnieTessein]

I get so excited whenever you do anything Plato

[@johnarbuckle2619]

ikr !!

[@ShubhamVerlekar]

+ernietessein Aristotle is more better :P

[@iceeselenawiz]

same!

[@terriesmith1981]

+ernietessein Same here!

[@nightweels]

+Connor Verlekar "more better"

[@TjasaZ]

Have no fear of perfection, you'll never reach it. ~Dalí

[@ShubhamVerlekar]

+Tjaša Zaletelj Even Augustus said that?

[@Hidesinmud]

+Tjaša Zaletelj If you have no fear of perfection than what's the harm in discussing it?

[@TjasaZ]

+Hides inMud There's no fear at all. I posted this quote because I think it maybe comes from Plato's philosophy. Perfection or form is just (and can only be) in our minds, we can never reach it phisically. We have the idea or form of a perfect sphere for instance but we can never make it, but that should not make us stop trying and getting as close as possible :)

[@TjasaZ]

+Hides inMud There's no fear at all. I posted this quote because I think it maybe comes from Plato's philosophy. Perfection or form is just (and can only be) in our minds, we can never reach it phisically. We have the idea or form of a perfect sphere for instance but we can never make it, but that should not make us stop trying and getting as close as possible :)

[@TjasaZ]

+Connor Verlekar When I came across this quote Dalí was stated as an author, but do correct me if I'm wrong.

[@MouthfullRadio]

The School of Life is on form

[@ShubhamVerlekar]

+Béat Tune On to the point.

[@porteal8986]

Béat Tune underrated comment

[@mirzawardahbeg6948]

yaaaaasssssss

[@arcebat]

Can you do "philosophy : David Hume"?

[@arthgupta]

Every time you reach "perfection", "perfection" moves a little further. Asymptotal reality huh?

[@coolmoth3771]

damn maybe zeno was right

[@邓梓薇]

The Goodness makes you always on the road

[@virginiamiller6685]

Yes! Burke really explores this in his discussions on purity

[@TheArabsolga]

A very optimistic philosopher. We need more of these in our world today!

[@ambers123100]

Karl Popper kicked your ass!

[@oaoa3o456]

Sup plato??

[@VivekYadavBlogger]

+Plato was pessimist.

[@rossbrannigan5266]

+Vivek Yadav That was what I was thinking! Scepticism and all

[@ElectricChaplain]

+Ross Brannigan Skepticism is not pessimism and vice versa. Schopenhauer and the Buddha were pre-eminent pessimists but had clear views on human nature (as well as metaphysics for the latter).

[@deceptivepanther]

Superb animation: you made Plato dance.

[@mansouralba1987]

this is not what i understood from a philosophy book about Plato.. i thought he is saying that anything we see there is the better version of it in the world of forms. he says that we feel there is a better version of anything because we have been in the world of forms. our soul Plato says. he says its an innate. and here where Aristotle disagrees with him. im really confused i need help from a philosopher

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

Hey Mansour! I have some ideas about what Plato was thinking maybe we can have a conversation and see where it leads us both! I am still learning about such themes that I am interested in a lot! What do you say?

[@Youngandsuffering]

You are right. This channel is basically humanist propaganda that tries to hide anything too metaphysical or abstract.

[@fredrickotieno4271]

maybe the better or the perfect version of things are already in our mind.

[@fredrickotieno4271]

Catherine Murphy You can't perfect what's in your head because it's already perfect. I think plato is trying to tell us not to worry ourselves with worldly things because they will never be perfect; they are a mere imperfect reflection of the forms. So when you work your ass off trying to make a table but it instead ends up looking like a chair, don't stress yourself because it was never meant to be perfect.

[@johnstrunz1637]

i think humanist propaganda is actually one kind of propaganda i actually feel great about lol

[@emmettofswedeland]

I would honestly do anything to have a week-long conversation with Plato.

[@coltongannon4818]

Imagine u get that opportunity but realize he speaks an entirely different language

[@emmettofswedeland]

@@coltongannon4818 HAHAH shit! the utter dissapointment

[@farhanaditya2647]

@@coltongannon4818 I mean, he kinda did

[@InsecureCreator]

@@coltongannon4818 easy spent years learning old greek

[@lesliegreenhill2389]

I'll join you. In my view, he connects the transcendental to the earthly.

[@TropicApocalypse]

I heard from a Philosophy prof that Plato's idea of ‘forms’ was more than a thought-experiment, and that Plato really believed they existed out there somewhere.

[@CharlieJAitch]

It wasn't really mentioned in this video but I feel a very important part about Plato's forms is that he thought we were born with them. And in that sense you really come to regard them less as our own mental things we are striving towards, but rather things that exist in their own right that we have some idea of.

[@outofoblivionproductions4015]

I think Thomas Aquinas would say we are born with the faculty for understanding forms.

[@Joeonline26]

Exactly. This video reduced the forms to some kind of set of ideals we hold in our mind and then impress upon the world. Somehow the author (I'm pretty sure it Alain de Botton so no suprises there -the man really is clueless) has managed to reduce the Platonic forms to what sounds a bit like Kantianism🤦‍♂🤦‍♂🤦‍♂

[@GodDamnit7711]

I asked you like 6 months ago, and you replied yes, but I must ask again, can you please do a video on Erich Fromm!? Thanks!

[@johnhernandez1065]

I find it very interesting that this channel does not go into Plato's actual philosophy on the forms but sticks to the Atheist abstraction of Plato's philosophy on it. They refuse to include the fact that Plato actually saw this world as an illusion and that the forms are the true reality. He believed that these forms do actually exist in a spiritual universe. But, you would never know that because The School of Life willfully denies facts to make Plato sound more useful to the Atheist agenda.

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

John you raise an interesting point! I have notice this similar language used in my classes. I am an undergraduate Philosopher at UC Davis here in California. I am also noticing that the language straight away avoids spiritual concepts as you say in your comment above. I too am most attracted to Plato's concept of the forms with regards to the spiritual reality. Plato was a genius for his time. Plato's explanation of the forms has opened my eyes to what is possible even though there may not be sufficient evidence or ways to describe whatever we seek. I think that most of reality is indescribable but for some reason, despite its undescribablity, humanity, nevertheless, is able to function and progress. This is a way to look at the world, that we don't need to have evidence for everything otherwise life would be quite miserable and boring, to say the least. I hope to use this idea of Plato's forms and add the spiritual dimension to it.

[@Ooger77]

Most western religions sprang up because of Platonic thought, including Christianity. C.S. Lewis, a 20th century Christian writer considered himself a neo-Platonist. Yet, a thousand years before, Eastern Orthodoxy used Platonism to flesh out their theology and clear up "confusion".

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

I would like to know where you get your facts from Ooger

[@johnhernandez1065]

Elevated & Meaningful he's not wrong though. Most Christian philosophers have a deep love for plato and attribute this form world as being an attribute of God by including an intellect to the world of ideals. Augustine, Aquinas, C.S. Lewis, Chesterton all use much of plato

[@Ooger77]

Elevated & Meaningful Fact is, you're thousands of years late to this game. Some have referred to Christianity as pop-Platonism. References? Here's a starting point: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity In addition, the New Testament, CS Lewis (he called himself a platonist in his writings), John Davidson - The Gospel of Jesus (which is a thorough overview of Gnostic theology), Bertrand Russell - history of western philosophy (for the broad strokes), Alvar Ellegard - Jesus: 100 BC (which has great discussion on the syncretism of hellenistic, jewish worldviews to create gnosticism and christianity). Also, google for a bunch of articles echoing points like this based upon centuries of research and common academic knowledge. I mean, seriously, WTF are they teaching you at UC Davis? I don't even have a philosophy degree. I just read.

[@mackdmara]

I always have seen form as the goal. This thing that you strive to be, even if it is not possible in your life time. To work for anything that is not your goal is counter productive. To use every moment to push towards your goal, regardless of your personal advantage, is ideal. Having the courage to remove the part of your old goal that does not serve your ideal end, is progress. The end is now clearer in sight, and you have further perfected the goal. With the misconception behind you, the ideal is more real. With a clearer form you more competently complete. This philosophy is stated before Plato, but I love the way he put it.

[@bolivar1789]

It is a very wise advice from you to say that we all need to have as many forms in mind as we possibly can! I think for this, the character trait we need the most is " curiosity". Because if we want to know, the forms are everywhere. Take any subject from this lesson: Friendship. You can begin searching from 2300 years ago. Aristoteles has a whole chapter about how a friendship should be in his Nicomachean Ethics. You can start from there, and then you have the entire history of world literature and philosophy, arts and music ( so many wonderful songs about friendship) that you can apply to! So every beautiful story, every great song or movie, every painting or poem on the subject can make that form "clearer" to you. You can create your own template of the "ideal friendship" as a result of this beautiful searching adventure. We must also look around a lot, to find the admirable sides of people we come across with. There is nothing wrong with having "role models". They are like "living forms" I would say. Of course you must learn NOT to expect too much from them, since they are also only human beings. But it is a very noble thing to do, to look for the "virtues" in wiser people and to try to integrate those virtues into our lives. For example I have this friend from Ethiopia. She used to work in an internet-cafe 12 hours a day seven days a week, but she was such an incredibly patient and kind person. I have never seen her angry despite all the stress she was having with all sorts of people on that place. People get mad if something on their computer doesn't work, or if the connection is slow or if they can't print this or that...My friend would solve any problem, but she would always keep calm and take her time, while at the same time joking with those who were complaining, but always in a very friendly and warm hearted way. So she is definitely one of my role models when it comes to imagining" a form of kindness and resilience". So as I am saying, if we are curious enough and have our eyes open, it is not a big deal to fill our heads with forms and templates and ideals, which is a much more exciting and enthusiastic way of living. The difficulty is to keep them "always" in mind and have the perseverance in wanting to live by them. But this is the only way worth living. By the way, for all friends who want to apply philosophy for this and don't know where to begin with, I highly recommend Alain de Botton's excellent book " The Consolations of Philosophy". ( He is the founder of this channel). You can also watch the documentaries he made about the six philosophers we encounter in that book: Socrates, Nietzsche, Montaigne, Seneca, Epicurus, Schopenhauer. They are all on youtube! Thank you for this wonderful lesson as always!

[@rehmsmeyer]

+Lua Veli Great advice!

[@bolivar1789]

+Соɾу ℛ. Hello again Cory! I hope you are doing very well. Thanks a lot for reading. I wish you a wonderful week:-)

[@bimoantonio9282]

+Lua Veli Thank you Lua Veli, I read your comments and i think it is really wonderful. Furthermore, I thank you for all the names that you recommended because i am a new learner in philosophy :). Thank you Lua Veli!

[@bolivar1789]

+Bimo Antonio Hello there Bimo! Thanks a lot for reading and for your lovely message. It is wonderful that you are such a curious person. You know, I once wrote a little list for another friend who was asking for websites, sources etc. to learn intersting staff, so I thought I will just copy-paste it for you . I hope you find it useful. I send you my best wishes too. So here is the list: 1. The founder of this channel Alain de Botton has another youtube channel, where you can find his documentaries. All of them have a life changing quality. 2. Wisecrack and " In a Nutshell"are good too. 3. I recommend you three great websites you could subscribe: -The Book of Life ( then brain of this channel) -Open Culture ( there you really have everything! From free E-Books , to online classes from Top Universities. On any subject you want.) -Brain Pickings ( Maria Popova's incredible blog. That place is a gold mine. ) For art check this one: -Art as Therapy ( wonderful website launched by Alain and John Armstrong) 4. And here are three podcasts where you can learn a lot: -Radiolab - The 7th Avenue Project - On Being with Krista Tippett

[@bimoantonio9282]

Thank you so much for the recommendation. I will make sure that i check it out. Thank you so much for sharing your sources with me, you have no idea how grateful i am to see this :) I hope i can repay you someday, If i may i would like to have a conversations with you in the journey of pursuing my knowledge. In the meantime i will consume some wisdom for my curious mind:)

[@upcauseway]

Yaaaay more philosophy!! Thank u School of Life!!!

[@maxstirner8717]

Heck yeah!

[@kishoretalapaneni9183]

School of Life: The Form of KZbin Channel.

[@iJustAFan]

You forgot to mention how the forms were "universal" and (plato believed) that everyone had the same understanding of a form (he was against relativism).

[@1reptile121]

Sam E TU

[@TheNamikaze4th]

Ugh, this was an insufferable simplification of Plato's forms. I know Alain de Botton's videos on philosophy are rather appealing because they're easily digestible, but please, be more critical of what constitutes true philosophy and you'll see the errors in Botton's reasoning. While I'll admit that Botton has some practical wisdom on life, much of his conclusion on Plato's intention on the forms is mere reassuring belief. This video is disingenuous at the very least.

[@TRVBAL]

Thomas Jardine you write like a book

[@el_duderino_man]

You do not like this form?

[@maxstirner8717]

A video on Max Stirner? That would be very, very awesome.

[@maciej.ratajczak]

Did you know that Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Sophocles, Plutarch, Hadrian, Julian, and Cicero took psychedelics in initiations held every year for an agrarian cult called the Eleusinian Mysteries? Unfortunately, participants had to swear a vow of secrecy so ordinary people were excluded. Psychedelics, during the highest trip degree of level 8 geometry lay bare Plato's 'intelligible' form in its purest form. Psychedelic geometry is defined as the experience of a person's field of vision becoming partially or completely encompassed by fast-moving, colorful, and indescribably complex geometric patterns capable of manifesting itself across known nine different levels of intensity, 8A and 8B being the final levels. Did you know that 'ego death' is essentially 'memory suppression', and can be broken down into four basic levels, complete long-term memory suppression being the highest level. At this level, the effect is the complete and persistent failure of both a person's long and short-term memory. It can be described as the experience of becoming completely incapable of remembering even the most basic fundamental concepts stored within the person's long-term memory. This includes everything from their name, hometown, past memories, the awareness of being on drugs, what drugs even are, what human beings are, what life is, that time exists, what anything is, or that anything exists. Memory suppression of this level blocks all mental associations, attached meaning, acquired preferences, and value judgements one may have towards the external world. Sufficiently intense memory loss is also associated with the loss of a sense of self, in which one is no longer aware of their own existence. In this state, the user is unable to recall all learned conceptual knowledge about themselves and the external world, and no longer experiences the sensation of being a separate observer in an external world.

[@nicholashren4390]

So, this video actually does not explain Plato's idea of the forms. Like many of the videos on this site, it explains one persons very watered down version of what they think this is about.

[@irisbulsara8427]

PLEASE DO ANY FEMALE PHILOSOPHER. You could at least do one; there are enough great female philosophers to do at least one video on a female philosopher. If you do not know any, well, I suggest Hannah Arendt, Simone de Beauvoir, Martha Nussbaum. I think it's important to show that women can be great philosophers too! And they are grossly underrepresented in my university's curriculum, but also in the school of life's curriculum.

[@mick21778]

I concur

[@TurquoiseAbyss1440]

It's irrelevant what sex of the philosopher is, rather emphasis should be placed on how timeless and valuable their ideas are.

[@alg11297]

+Iris Bulsara (freddiemercuryswife) Yeah and don't forget Ayn Rand! Brilliant!

[@EpicMRPancake]

+CLAIRE KORTE While this is true, the primary purpose he had in mind was to show to females that they can be philosophers too. Perhaps he suggests it is worth at least for one episode sacrificing talking about the best philosophy if it means involving females (which might inspire some to become philosophers in the future).

[@TurquoiseAbyss1440]

+EpicMRPancake Fair point :) Hopefully in the following decades superficial differences ie. sex and race will become so inconsequential that other issues can be resolved like over population and declining bio diversity :)

[@lloydetheredge4140]

Nobody has ever seen a perfect circle or a perfectly straight line in nature. And once Euclid et al. began to think about this non-physical ealm of perfect forms and their relationships, abstract thinking (& mathematics) began to take-off. Plato is applying the same, newly-discovered, strategy. In school, one of the sillier ways to talk about Plato is to say that he "believed in the existence of ideal forms." However if students write this in their notebooks and remember that "Plato believed . . ." they add these Greek philosophers to a long list of people in history what had "beliefs." Plato was reporting an exciting "if . . .then" discovery about thinking that (powerfully) always worked. Good job, School of Life: this improves the standard sound bite history lectures.

[@sail2byzantium]

Wonderful! As a philosophical platonist, this was a very nice explanation of the Forms by the inventor of Western philosophy.

[@tantocomo]

'Form' is from Latin. Contrary to your video, Plato actually uses the word 'idea' & also 'eidolon' (meaning 'image') This video is basically a fail

[@johnarmstrong5866]

Linguistically you're quite right. Many thanks for drawing attention to this. Modestly - in our defence - we'd like to mention that we are aware of this point. It's just that in the UK - where we're based - 'Forms' is the usual term. It's also standard in the US and Australia.

[@bitesky]

there's no ideal form for things, but there's the best form possible for things, so we can count it as an ideal and work by that.

[@davidmonroy2509]

Plato's philosophy always resonates profoundly with me.

[@QED_]

+Paul Hill: That's right. There are different kinds of Forms: physical . . . emotional . . . intellectual . . . and so on. By over-emphasizing intellectual Forms, this video makes it too easy for people to think that all Forms are mental abstractions.

[@soulreaperichig0]

0:31 I had a good laugh when Plato wagged his finger.

[@shreyanswritingchannel7515]

I laughed because you laughed

[@tommyseacat3580]

The problem with Plato is.... if you leave the lid off it dries out.

[@mustang4636]

Necro-posting just to remind you seven years later that although it is taken, this joke/comment is hilarious

[@joe_zupko]

Understanding Plato's idea of forms is actually useful if you're into computer programming, you need to be able to understand things on an abstract level and break them down into their most fundamental pieces. For instance, a car has fundamental properties like wheels, an engine, seats, and so on, but your specific car may have red paint and a V8 engine with a dent on the fender. Knowing this you can program a template class Car and use that to derive any form of a car you wish.

[@shaikhmullah-ud-din1964]

I love how you bring still images to life. :)

[@IWouldLikeToRemainAnonymous]

Since I started watching your videos a couple of mounths back now, you have been leading myself to have the belief that forms/teplates/other words are needed, but until now I couldn't really name it, and now a day or two since your upload and I can't stop thinking about the 'forms' Great work!

[@TheLionrazor]

Thanks for doing this video! A great addition to the School of Life collection, and an important aspect of idealism that we forget all too often.

[@roodlesprease7659]

if plato was alive today, he would recommend weed and psychedelics to everyone cause plato was high as a mafaka back in the day

[@assholio]

Shut the fuck up.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

lmao!

[@sindahat7451]

Here after watching Taemin's Idea MV.... anyone else?

[@bianca._.8817]

Samee

[@Joeonline26]

I did post graduate work on Plato and I can tell you that this video is absolutely god-awful. It will leave the newbie with the totally wrong impression of the forms. As always, this channel tries to reduce the best metaphysical concepts down to bourgeois self-help guides.

[@Yishai-Aviad-Amar]

I am a teacher of mathematics and philosophy. when I teach, I use quotations from the great philosophers (Plato, Aristotle, Lucretius, Marcus Aurelius, Thomas Aquinas, Rambam, ETC.) Most of my students hate when I use Plato for my arguments, because “His ideas are not for the modern world”. I feel that us philosophers need to sugarcoat ideas; So that no one will be offended by it. Yet Plato has an answer for this. Every human is born within the cave, seeing illusions of things. Yet some will escape, and they would share their ideas to all. People will not understand, but it’s what it is. This is the job of philosophers.

[@gidwarren89]

I don't think this is what Plato meant by his forms. My understanding is that he was arguing for the existence of the pure concept or definition of what a thing is. And this focus on it being ideal or perfect referred not so much to it performing its function flawlessly but to it being without flaw because it is the very definition all the physical things are being defined by it and although no physical circle can ever be perfectly circular, the concept or form of what a circle is is perfect by definition because it is itself the definition.

[@Mooniscool-w8g]

is there a form on how to troll

[@Br0kenBond]

+Anand Nair Ofcourse, I have it right here. The first thing y

[@stephenblackwell7351]

black cocks

[@FocusMrbjarke]

Just troll a lot and someday you will get there :)

[@peardude8979]

Act condensing, because you're better than everyone else. Poke the hottest controversial issue of the day. And be stubborn.

[@DrXaOs]

yes! its when a Satyr smirks at you! ;)

[@Usernamegoeshere012]

ma'am i am here to figure out a summary of plato's forms and the more i learn the more confused i get but maybe it's the point?

[@Dallazzallad]

Well, this ignores some of the more important problems with Plato's Forms, for instance that they are not really supposed to have their basis in human purposes or to be found with the help of experience: "Instead of the purpose of the tool, [Plato] talks of the Form or εἶδος of the tool; and this Form is something which we are supposed to apprehend telepathically, without any means of doing so. We are explicitly forbidden to learn from experience what form a shuttle should take: 'If his shuttle breaks as he is making it, will he in making another look to the broken one, or to that Form to which he also looked in making the broken one? To the Form, I think' (389A)." - Robinson, R. 1956. A criticism of Plato's Cratylus

[@rossbrannigan5266]

So, could we then argue that Plato was an empiricist? After all, in order to know what - for instance - love is in itself, or in its form, we have to first observe it. This is the objective of the true lover of knowledge, or philosopher: to see the thing in itself, or in its form. Thus, in order to know how things SHOULD be, we must first experience/observe the perfect form of it. Just a thought; haven't seen anything really saying Plato is an empiricist.

[@QED_]

+Ross Brannigan: I think Plato would say that he WAS an "empiricist" -- in the sense that the Forms can be experienced. But "empiricism" is generally associated with the subset of that experience that is measurable by physics. Consciousness, for example, is not considered to be an object of empirical observation . . .

[@stolza04]

+Ross Brannigan The Forms are in essence an absolute transgression of reality. They cannot be fully fathomed by any human, that is, its absolute form, but are only imperfect replicas of the Form itself, which we can observe, only because they participate in reality. The fallacy is, our perception of the absolute Form is our own idea of what it should be like. Now, experiencing or observing the absolute is a totally different aspect all together; most importantly, contrary from our senses.

[@minusone5162]

Yes it could be argued in that way, but love is very complicated, I mean, if you are going to do something and use an ideal template of it, what would be the ideal template of love. You can mention one but it would be static. You can give me an example of someone who's dead, and the love of that person would be a template in a particular time, situation, precedence, factors ... so on and so forth. Ideals are like pictures ... they only look beautiful framed and on their walls. You can throw different light to then and certainly they will look different, but they remain the same ... in their own culture.

[@lancelotdelatorre9957]

Amo este canal, hace falta un canal así para hispanohablantes

[@akogarehouse]

si.... son muy necesarios... donde estan?

[@Komnenit]

I would have liked to meet Plato in person

[@punkseth1]

Please present more of what plato believed on this too. Don't just pick through his beliefs and take what you want

[@AMTrane]

Thank-you School of Life.

[@XanatharEye]

yea yea yea, philosophy gonna save the world... NEEEEERDS. Alchemy is the REAL shit. #EmeraldTablets

[@trolltoll3309]

+Wizard Guy There is one true emerald tablet and it has not been seen by anyone. Its all hearsay and the Atlantean tablets were 'channeled' by a dude, research it. There is nothing new under the sun sorcerer, there are dire consequences for staying in the darkness.

[@carbon1479]

+Wizard Guy Then less talk and more magnum opus!

[@XanatharEye]

Troll Toll yea but Jung saw 'em in a dream, so it checks out

[@DrXaOs]

Philosophy is the mother of all science you noobie

[@XanatharEye]

alchemy isn't science, it's psychology ... you know NOTHING of magic, mortal wormling

[@Chiewcam]

That's interesting and so fascinating! Replacing the word ideal to the forms seems to give more meaning and a boarder sense of thinking.

[@ElevatedMeaningful]

This was a great video although I agree with many comments below that it was missing a major dimension which is the Spiritual/Heaven reality that Plato was referring to in his forms and I will definitely make a video soon, talking about that in great detail, so if anyone here wants to check out my version of Plato's Forms please feel free to come onto my channel Elevated & Meaningful. Cheers see you all on my comments soon!

[@ivanderlich3776]

Why are you divorcing Plato from metaphysics?

[@muffin8or]

Glazing over the important fact that Plato reified his Forms into metaphysical reality in order to make the 'perfect' building or the 'perfect' relationship objective. Not tenable really.

[@zhonlino]

In other word the form is a religion. Don't misguide us turning religion into philosophy School of life.

[@tommymeyer8281]

+zhonlino The form isn't a religion. Where are you getting that from? The form of something is just the concept of how it can best be done

[@zhonlino]

[Plato, meno 81c, 85d, 98a; Philebus 34c; Theaetetus 198d] He wrote forms is a theory that we get before we even lived. He wrote that archetypes which refer to idea and forms is a model for all thing which is immaterial, steady, and primer, will not divided, will not change, and will not broken nor be outdated which we got from god and then delivered through religion. [Plato, meno 81c, 85d, 98a; Philebus 34c; Theaetetus 198d]

[@tommymeyer8281]

zhonlino It sounds like, in my humble opinion, Plato thought of the perfect ideals on how to live life were given by God inherently into nature. I disagree with the idea of the origins of these "forms" and what I'm also assuming is morality, but I agree with him that we should attempt to grasp the form of everything we do and strive to bring that to fruition. I don't think this concept has to be a religious one, I think Plato just tied it into religion. The forms of life and morality are sometimes subjective, but it is important for us to understand exactly what the forms of life are so we are more likely to achieve them

[@0sarah0]

Our teacher posted this link on the Google Classroom wich said: "Aristotle"...

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Bollocks just like the rest of his ideas

[@DipayanPyne94]

Good joke.

[@damupulento4318]

poor interpretation. this guy's videos show his lack of knowledge about philosophy

[@nizasiamehenry]

Plato and idealists believe that Values are derived from God and this is why I conform to most of his ideas. Idealism is Christianity!

[@DipayanPyne94]

Actually, Christianity copied heavily from Plato.

[@schaughtful]

Are "forms" just candle lit shadows on a cave wall?

[@wilhelm.reeves]

"to have an illusion only to realize, it's just part of a bigger illusion"

[@shuhengazhang]

Great video but I am confused. What makes something ideal is very subjective so if you don't really know what really is the ideal, how do you aim for the form?

[@Liandracleide]

+Shuheng Zhang ahh i feel the same

[@QED_]

+Shuheng Zhang: The answer to such a general question is itself general: you discover the Forms by exploring your experience of Reality . . . since all of Reality is en-Formed by the Forms.

[@NOVAsteamed]

3:29 Actually, in Plato's Republic, Socrates says that to govern a society, one must not be ambitious, but wise and true to oneself to achieve happiness. When an idea is not idealistic enough, the philosopher must be wise and true in depicting the forms in a more idealistic way. It is not about ambition.

[@KarlWhale]

The moment he said the word "ideal" I got the ad banner for iDeal shop near me...

[@bagofrandom]

To ppl learning Plato: This is just one way of understanding Plato's Forms. In this vid they argue that Plato's Forms (which is his metaphysical system) show us pure, formal concepts of things. The Forms are a lot more than that, but this is one important feature !

[@rawrthebear3312]

hi SOL. will you make a video about human right cuz seen lots of country still not follow some of these rules .and our goverment just create some new "law" that conflict it

[@tusenbensen334]

So basicly: Know what you want, and then go get it

[@tupaicindjeke275]

Viewing these philosophy videos, I came to realize, Philosophy and classical music have something in coming: Everything is awesome... They have the same natural frequency...

[@Chessdummy]

2 Timothy 3:5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

[@alexandercolefield9523]

I gotta say I am a bit disappointed, I wanted talk of mathematical forms. :/

[@vama89]

whoa very cool. Thanks for this explanation School of Life. I heard about "the forms" but never really understood it until now.

[@Gguy061]

thinking of the opposite of the ideal form also has its uses; in fact, its the entire basis for lateral thinking

[@tommymeyer8281]

+Greg Moberg It can help you in determining what IS ideal

[@hayatuniv2723]

Thank you for the video, it gives Plato's ideas very accurately in a nutshell (along with the allegory of cave). I'd also love to see you guys' interpretation of Plotinus and his works!

[@shayaandanish5831]

Is it just me but we should all right down our thoughts cause I thought of the ideal forms

[@shweet7891]

Domain of perfect forms. Almost out of reach to most of humanity. School of life only scratches the surfaces of their concepts. I wouldn't depend on someone telling me what things are and define things for me. Do you own research human fam.

[@dreadjoker10]

Love your channel. Beautiful, intriguing, and charming videos.

[@linhdang7327]

Is the picture at 2.24 coming from a Vietnamese classroom?

[@asgard66669]

Why do you guys do so many things for Plato but nothing for Socrates?

[@-Skywalker01-]

Looking at life with this perspective can be extremely depressing

[@Obtaineudaimonia]

Does the word 'forms' in this case not just mean 'ideas'?

[@johnarbuckle2619]

ideal*

[@Firmus777]

+ObtainEudaimonia "Forms" are actually translated as "Ideas" in Croatian.

[@mkb6418]

+ObtainEudaimonia No. The form "μορφή" in greek it means "what it looks like".

[@Obtaineudaimonia]

+Birgilios Marmaroglou aren't ideas mental representational images, at least in the context of philosophy?

[@EMWUZX]

+ObtainEudaimonia Form of x=Ideal version of x. Idea is far too vague a term.

[@abm2399]

How can I support what you guys are doing? It is very special. Thank you.

[@HeavenlyH3R0]

This makes me think of the LEGO movie. quit using instructions! :)

[@8265]

Hey Plato I have a question: Are the concepts of Yin and Yang ☯️ forms? Also, your use of deductive reasoning is flawed! Humans are imperfect and as such can’t know the divine, meaning you can’t possibly know the Forms!

[@alaragungor451]

This was a very nice explanation, thank you!

[@sjwimmel]

It seems like this video is the basis of this entire channel, you guys really took this idea to heart. And it produced some very interesting videos, like The Perfect Country and Better Porn. I might not always agree with the ideas themselves, but it always makes me look at the issue from a completely new angle.

[@whatthe8090]

" i despise perfection , it is the doom which marks the end of betterment, evolution, change, challenge, and everything that we hate and love . but , absolutely would love to define ourselves with . what is there to live for in a perfect world . perfection is what we should all work towards , hopping that we never attain it . " the perfect world is deeply grim & disturbingly dark . it is something that i would never want to attain. But , something that i would always love to work towards .☺

[@ZiaullahZia-q7f]

Are you still alive. Love your comment.

[@fapphs]

The problem with Forms is that one may lose the ability to accept things the way they are, because ultimately there will always be room to improve what you've got. Therefore, we must all learn to, while keeping in mind what ideals we should head to, learn to enjoy things as they are at present, independently from how far they may be from our ideals.

[@quandaledingle7615]

@Mihlali Mahala this is a great counter argument

[@TheSyed27]

School of Life should do a video about the ideal government .

[@amorextranjero9654]

I love this channel. It helps people get interested in philosophy.