Kingdom Hearts II - #40 - Musically Challenged

[@timbates12]

'Boy, this episode could really use more music' Dan: [goes to Atlantica] 'Wait, NO-'

[@psyched1804]

In Kingdom Hearts there are three characters who become Heartless and retain their sentience. 1. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, aka Xehanort, the big bad of the series, who requires someone else's body, specifically someone with great dark power already, to take physical form again. 2. Sora, the main hero of the series, the chosen one, who requires the help of the pure hearted Kairi to regain his form. 3. Scar, a really mean lion, who resurrects himself immediately after his death as a heartless, without ever losing his form and with full control of his brand new dark powers. So I guess the take away is that the strongest heart in the Kingdom Hearts multiverse actually belongs to Scar from the Lion King.

[@petervilla5221]

Takes a strong heart to dethrone/murder your brother over a rock.

[@Abdallah-i4g]

Yes true vry true

[@pinkwings8036]

Can we acknowledge that Sora just disintegrated those two eels?

[@fourcatsandagarden]

"Ok, that's it!" - Sora, being just as fed up as I was at this point with how easily this issue could be fixed thanks to his presence. Also...unlike all the underwater characters, Eric had never met the fools before so this random boy-mermaid popping up with a key-sword shooting magic alongside a duck-topuss and a dogurtle must've been weird for him. On what was already a VERY weird day.

[@fisheyme47]

Eric has much more personality in this than he did in the movie. You can see why Ariel would like him so much here.

[@Xene4Games]

Dan: Let me think about where to go next. *few seconds later* Dan: I know EXACTLY where we're going next. It's official. Dan tries to be evil. Emphasis on tries.

[@xianartman]

“That’s it!...” And suddenly Sora’s impulse makes the story faster, for a change...

[@Crazybean2012]

That crawling Ursula was actually really good and creepy also did Eric just KICK URSULA OH MY GOD AND THEN THROWS THE TRIDENT RIGHT THROUGH HER, THE ABSOLUTE LEGEND

[@ethanault909]

Atlantica in KH2 is a little jarring, I think - but not for the reason most people would name. Well. Not -only- because its a musical world. But what's weird for me is that they kept the canon of the first game mostly intact for all the other worlds, even for the summons whose worlds you didn't travel to personally... but then in Atlantica its like you've never met Ursula before, and the events of the first game didn't happen almost.

[@petervilla5221]

If we just pretend that KH2 Atlantis didn't happen then all the problems go away! It's not like its coming back for KH3... right?

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

@@petervilla5221 Atlantica*, but yeah. It's a weird situation, having Ursula in this game.

[@roxonightreturns]

@@KeybladeMasterAndy even if we assumed she didn't die last game it still wouldn't make sense for the Little Mermaid plot to happen.

[@FallenWhiteSaber]

Oh, THAT is clever. At University, we had animating someone crawling as a technical challenge, but, they use a very simple, very clever cheat to deal with the pivot point issue; they lock the hand position and use the belly as the consistent pivot point for the rest of the animation; afterall, it's less a "crawl" and more dragging themselves along. [For the less animation inclined, the way they designed the motion, it's more of a walk, as it's two moving pivot limbs and then a moving point the limbs go across, instead of being a crawl, which has multiple contact points affected by the motion]

[@krzuker]

so they have a musical level for "Under the Sea" but "Poor Unfortunate Souls" doesn't get any love?

[@nathanbrown8680]

A travesty. I thought it was the best song of the film.

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

Honestly, it would have made.more sense to include "Kiss The Girl". SDG could have helped Sabastian play "Matchmaker". And Flounder too, of course.

[@fionnagatechronicler1088]

Unforgivable

[@Chronos341]

27:54 Wait, it was THAT easy? Wait to cut through the usual fairy tale BS, Sora

[@angelcollina]

I do like the fact that Prince Eric does have just a smattering of personality and and personal will when he jumps in the water to be with Ariel. A lot of Disney Princesses' princes are just painfully boring with very little character. Just because it's a princess movie doesn't mean that the guy has to be vacant.

[@CupOfJoeMedia]

The problem with doing the little mermaid storyline in kingdom hearts is 1, Sora is a human and Ariel's friend, and 2, doesn't Donald canonically have shapeshifting magic (the same magic they use to change into their Atlantica form) to transform Ariel into a human?

[@Mikesean45]

Also everyone seems to have forgotten that they killed Ursula. Including Ursula.

[@TheBoundFenrir]

@@Mikesean45 Well, people have forgotten a lot of things between 1 and 2...I mean, there's an entire game that no-one except Axel (EDIT: , Riku, Diz, ) and Saix remember...and I'm not 100% sure Saix actually remembers it, or if I'm imagining the conversation I'm thinking of... ...actually, now that I think about it...according to Namine, memories are in the links between people's hearts in this world: that's why she's able to alter the memories of those around Sora, and not just his own. So how do Nobodies remember *anything* :thinking:

[@Mikesean45]

@@TheBoundFenrir The only thing that was affected were people's memories of Sora and that was fixed once Roxas returned to him. Doesn't really explain why Ariel didn't remember that she helped defeat Ursula or how Ursula even came back.

[@GirlAnimePrincess]

I got the feeling that donald's transformation was world-based, and since this is ariel's world it wouldnt work that way. Taking her to another world might due it, but she'd also have to survive the gummi ship trip to get there?

[@samuelturner6076]

Cup of Joe It would be meddling with the world order if Donald transformed a princess into another species so she could get with a prince.

[@ImperatorPenguin]

Oh, the movie version is superior to this in every respect. The movie had a fire, a battle between hyenas and lions, Timon doing the hula. Do Scars lioness loyalists even make a cameo here? No... no they do not.

[@Shadeius]

But it doesn't have Scarless invoking powers of darkness so that he can soar thought the sky with several orbs around him.

[@Ninjinhah]

3:00 the fact Drive Forms are not included in this world certainly makes it feel like there's stuff missing... And yeah, the lack of music in some cutscenes doesn't help.

[@pedrogarcia8706]

Also considering it's an optional world.

[@jonathanfaber3291]

I think the main problem is not that the Lion king's world is inherently worse than other worlds, I think, that it's sort of an "uncanny valley" problem: we all know what the Lion king feels like, and the PS2 can't replicate that fact for a vareity of reasons, so it's not that it's not something resembling the lion king, it's the lion king with something horrifically wrong with it. Another conjecture could be that the Lion King is rather about Simba, rather than the plot of killing scar. Compare that to say, Mulan and her world, where the ultimate goal is to save China. In that world our presence mostly makes sense: the heartless are attacking China and thus, Sora and company must show up and stop them. But the Lion king is about Simba: Sora doesn't really have a reason to be there, so we're watching an already unatmospheric area (blame the limitations on the Ps2) combined with the fact we, as Sora, serve no purpose within

[@MelissaSamms]

"Another successful murder." 😂

[@jjstarA113]

Damn, I wish we got to see Lion!Sora talk with the Keyblade in his mouth in one of the cut scenes.

[@starlight_circuitry]

33:54 I always felt awful when Sora was like "Haha, I killed your pets!". I know they're evil and she's terrible and everything, but still.

[@timothymclean]

27:50: I gotta say, Sora zapping plot-critical artifacts with his Keyblade would make a _lot_ if Disney films shorter. And probably more unexpectedly entertaining... 29:30: ...And I kinda wish he tried zapping that one, too. 1:45: Is there a requirement that dead father figures can only give uselessly vague advice? 6:35: ...Did this seem less stupid in the movie? Because between Scar revealing his secret less than a minute after forcing Simba to say what he thought happened and how easily Simba comes back from Mufasa's fate, it seems really stupid here. Is it just that they're trying to compress an entire movie into one chapter in the game? 11:00: ...Why does Scar look exactly the same as a Heartless? (He has some cool moves, though. I'm especially partial to the one where he flies through the air surrounded by energy.) 18:15: Is the pendant some kind of distinctive human design? And do no mermen like to wear surface jewelry? 22:25: Sadly, despite being a huge surface nerd, Ariel didn't learn that humans can't breathe water until it was (almost) too late. 24:30: "Stay right here" and "take care of Ariel" seem mutually exclusive when Ariel is far from here... 31:10: I'm pretty sure the sea is a hereditary monarchy, not a tridentarchy, so...Ariel? 36:15: Sora, don't spoil the mood. Please.

[@TheBoundFenrir]

The jewelry thing: it's kinda hard to forge metals underwater, what with the whole "no fire" thing... The monarchy: the thing is, the contract wasn't "I'm removed from the kingdom", it was "I'm owned by Usula" which means that Ursula owns the king. It's basically swearing fealty. Most of the time kings don't swear fealty to landless nobles (I assume Ursela is nobility, but the difference is rather moot), but should you do so it doesn't really matter so much: the swearing is done, Triton is technically still king, and technically that means atlantis is still his to do with as he pleases, but he answers to ursela now. And she has the legal power to revoke his land (normally this would cause issues with other vassals, but Ursala doesn't have any other vassals, so the point is moot)

[@KyrilXIV]

The murder reveal thing: In the movie, there was a whole fight between Simba's reveal and Scar's reveal, during which Scar had Simba on the ropes. Simba's on his last legs, in basically the same spot as in the game, when Scar whispers his secret to Simba, gloatingly, and Simba manages to get his second wind. This is 100% a compression issue in-game.

[@Adam-cq2yo]

Ansem, SoD, was also a heartless that took after his former self. But he was an emblem heartless, while Scar's heartless was a pureblood heartless, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

[@GeminiTasiri]

Sora just losing his patience over Ursula's nonsense is my personal highlight of this world

[@mithrone5832]

17:08 Yay its not over... ...wait....WAIT DONT YOU DARE THINK ABOUT IT! Dan: "Thinking" Me: NO! 17:19 Well shit

[@reaperman111]

i dont understand why do they avoid using music in a lot of the cutscenes, it really kills the emotion that the characters are supposed to be communicating to the player, they sound stale and kinda fake w/o music imo. as much as i like kingdom hearts they should fix that

[@unversedhero6028]

Because they can't use the originals due to copyright and substituting them with new ones would not fit and everyone would have complained about it.

[@reaperman111]

@@unversedhero6028 i know they cant use the originals but they do use music in /some/ cutscenes so i think making new ones would be fine? but idk. they also avoid using music in some cutscenes where the only characters featured are originals from the kingdom hearts universe so i think its just inconsistent

[@Gear3k]

Using well made original music would've been way better than dead silence.

[@Overhazard]

There's also a thing about negative space in Asian storytelling (not just Japanese), which applies to audio as well. Watch any anime and you'll find entire shots and sometimes scenes with almost no sound. (Fittingly, this is reflected in western animation in Samurai Jack.) Problem is that the writing, the editing, the camera positioning, the acting, and everything else has to be done under the idea that there would be no music. If there's supposed to be music, these shots and scenes would play out differently, as is what happened here, and it feels jarring for there to not be music there.

[@superbun277]

30:31 - "They are way into legal procedure under the ocean" Isn't this usually the point where all the contract lawyers chime in to say contracts signed by a minor aren't legally binding anyways?

[@restlessDSM]

Not to mention signing a contract under duress.

[@Lhugnar]

31:09 "Who's the 'mighty ruler' of the seas now?" . . . SpongeBob SquarePants?

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

R.I.P. Stephen Hillenburg. 🍍

[@vibes5805]

Please tell me I'm not the only one that loves watching you play the Atlantica levels and loves seeing you really enjoying your time in it

[@StormyStories]

So, In Atlantica, Donald could have just turned her human for a bit too, right? Like, when you first got there, he was the one turning you guys into Merpeople. So, He totally could have helped her without all the contract stuff, right? I mean, he probably wouldn't have, since it's entirely meddling, but still.

[@Samgreen90]

(At 10:30) too bad Scar's. Going to survive *this* fall.

[@TheMikeydood]

Wait... Since King Triton has now signed the contract, doesn't he get 3 voiceless days to try and get the prince dude to kiss him?

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

I think Triton doesn't get three days because Ariel already used them up.

[@TheMikeydood]

You must admit, that would make for a very different movie!

[@christiancrusader9374]

Isn't it a different contract? The throne for his daughter.

[@restlessDSM]

23:00 "Are you the girl?" The girl with the power.

[@callowguru2611]

Sora just straight up shot Ursula. He wasn't waiting for anything.

[@MiseFreisin]

guess he was a bit frustrated after hanging around doing nothing for 3 days

[@capterson4]

The irony behind the "rushed" feeling is that they had been working on it since KH1.

[@knobelaxphormi6320]

I would have loved to see a fish-out-of-water effect when Ursula was on dry land.

[@thefalsescott1395]

I wonder what dan and carrie would look like as lions or animal forms for this world...... Hmmmmmm hmmmmmm

[@petervilla5221]

I wonder how Simba and gang would look like as humans...

[@thefalsescott1395]

@@petervilla5221 now that is an idea

[@Mikesean45]

Yeah, trying to recreate the emotional climax of something as big as a Disney film as a prelude to minor boss fight the main character doesn't have much to do with...really doesn't work. Thankfully, doesn't get as bad as this until a certain world in Dream Drop Distance.

[@SkyeFyre2131]

"Good news: Atlantica has loads of music. Bad news, we've no music budget for the Pridelands, one of the most beloved and unique worlds in the game."

[@Duiker36]

Wow. The entire Pride Lands story feels like it's right out of KH1 in terms of quality. Plus apparently Pete has a Rita Repulsa shtick.

[@chafsmith8338]

“Magic darkness, make my scar alive again”

[@Winters004]

It’s weird how Ariel has apparently completely forgotten how evil and untrustworthy Ursula is given what happened in the first game.

[@joemalo5335]

How nice of Ursula to include a dress this time

[@JM-nothing-more]

welcome to Disney's "The Lion Drift King"

[@JM-nothing-more]

also, i like how Simba walks with a bit of a beat in his step? in the menu

[@phyrofox1641]

Fast and the Furriest: Pridelands Drift You don't know him either! Did they completely forget the events if the first game.

[@MrAuthor3DS]

Making Scar go Heartless is a nice way to shake up the fight, but it feels like Sora didn't have much involvement in the first part outside of this.

[@qwerty77772]

I get the impression Pride Lands was one of the last worlds put into the game. One: It's optional, Two: The facial animation isn't up to snuff for most characters Three: There is a surprising lack of music tracks for this world Four: It can do little to push the main plot forward. It's really only here because The Lion King is Nomura's favorite Disney movie. He would have put it in KH1 but the engine could't handle a four-legged player character.

[@Ederisien]

The Pride Lands do seem strangely silent, perhaps even in comparison to other KH2 worlds? It was a Dan voice acting showcase! And it went very nicely. I'm really hoping for some Monster Hunter or Stardew Valley Sunday coming weekend. Pretty please?

[@nannavesterskov412]

5 years late to the party, but I just have to say that I LOVE that Eric threw the trident at Ursula instead of stabbing her with a boat lol

[@cyclopsboi]

Sebastian comes from the long line of disney characters that give the literal worst advice

[@WannabeCanadianDev]

Hrm yes, paleblood.... You've come to the right place. Yarhnam is well acquainted with acts of blood ministration... But first...You'll need a contract...

[@Dinuial]

Trying to remember sequence but if timing works out I suspect the guy with the interesting mutton chops was intended to be Scar's Nobody and world order skipped over that aspect as with Melificent storyline. (There must be a more coherent way to have written that but... brain.)

[@Nielzabub]

Dan: Where should I go next? Me: Torn pages! Do more Winnie the Pooh! I need more Winnie the Pooh!

[@olicityfan1150]

"Did someone kidnap the dj or something" I'm going with yes maybe during mid production of this game with how many scenes don't have music that really need some!!

[@Karonis124]

I feel like Scar really should have read the Evil Overlord List before his whole “reveal the truth to the hero who was emotionally devastated by the death of his father”. I also feel like someone should point out that since Ariel is legally a minor, any contract she signs is null and void since her legal guardian didn’t sign it.(Unless I’m very much mistaken).

[@vibes5805]

I think it's just that the Pride Lands is entirely self-contained. It's not relevant to the overall plot, has no Organization members, and only deals with in-world events. That's what I always chock it up to anyway

[@WannabeCanadianDev]

King Triton is a KING. He's actually THE person who can determine is a contract is valid. It's their most fundamental worldly power! Dating back to King Solomon and splitting the baby!

[@childofthefire]

"Get smacked. WITH A KEY!"

[@SEGAmastergirl]

I also felt like some things in this world were rushed. I remember that square wanted to have lion king in the first one but had trouble with animating quadrupeds at the time I think. I don’t know if that has anything to do with this but I guess square might’ve had a hard time with this. Also, Scar has like, no facial expression animation and it’s bugged me for years.

[@Adam-cq2yo]

And Pride Rock is why Kingdom Hearts should never try to compress the entirety of a movie into one world.

[@wearingorbentertainment716]

i just realized on this watchthrough that that ursula boss song gives off the exact same vibes as the the great mighty poo from conker's bad fur day XD is it just me ?

[@endermage77]

I agree, the Pride Lands look pretty barren and unfinished to me All the cliffs everywhere are unusually angular, for starters

[@Cuix]

This world is so radically mishandled oh my lanta

[@benparker1822]

Scar's on miffed kitty. Where's the Newspaper roll when you need it?

[@foursideseven]

Am I a crazy person or does Dan sound incredibly creepy and sinister voicing Ursula?

[@Samgreen90]

(At 8:50) and with that, you just took out there Alpha.

[@codysurfer8232]

I just want to point out that Donald could have turned Ariel into a human or at the very least changed Sora back into a human to keep watch over Ariel

[@tzisorey]

Waddaya want *me* to do? Dress in drag and do the _hula?!_

[@jonathanfaber3291]

Shouldn't you equip mysterious abyss on your magic drive form since that's really the only time you'll actually use it?

[@pedrogarcia8706]

Wisdom form doesn't get an extra keyblade.

[@jonathanfaber3291]

Pedro Garcia huh, doesn't it get a replacement beyblade though? Or have I massively misread the GUI?

[@nineflames12]

Dying to see more Night in the Woods sometime.

[@seighart419]

Did Christopher Daniel Barnes read all of his lines in a broom closet?

[@zanelee5410]

All I could think of in this situation is Sora’s a furry

[@Krustoficus]

Was anyone else thinking of The Big Mighty Poo during Ursula's song?

[@pedrogarcia8706]

How are you gonna do a musical version of Little Mermaid and not include poor unfortunate souls and kiss the girl? The two best songs in the whole movie?!

[@pedrogarcia8706]

And the Little Mermaid seems to be set in the Caribbean sea. Not just because of Sebastian's accent, but also the variety of the fish in the movie. Eric is probably a Danish prince who was travelling from Denmark to one of their colonies in the new world.

[@samuelturner6076]

Dan, do you not like us, as soon as you were deciding where to go whilst moving in the direction of Hollow Bastion I thought we were gonna have some fun times with Pooh and friends, but no, time for more mediocre(at best) singing and rhythm games. At least Atlantica will be over soon, I guess I now understand your gripes with the lion king world, mediocre retellings/representations of our cherished media can ruffle some feathers because we love how good the og is.

[@Mark_o_Helm]

I hope someday they remake the game with the proper Disney music. Then I would love to buy it again.

[@minigolfkid]

LOL now we need a game where we save DJs

[@kaptenteo]

Was the Ariel thing pretty much just one long cutscene? Riveting gameplay.

[@raupy_prince]

finally more finny fun.... the content I crave

[@thomasfplm]

Just as a curiosity, Ariel would probably still die if she went up that fast after becoming human. Actually, when you think about it, if Sora is human mixed with dolphin, he should need to breathe, since both parts are mammals.

[@alexivan8615]

Where did u do level up grinding? Ur much higher than I was in that world. And I fight about every heartless that appears.

[@UltimaAzN]

28:50 How does Eric know Ariels name... if she has been mute for 3 days.... and probably doesnt know how writing works.

[@Ghiaman1334]

Might've been taught to her in those 3 days...? Idk never watched the film but, logically, if someone can't speak, you try writing?

[@mart3323]

She signed a contract, legibly - i would assume she does know how to write

[@UltimaAzN]

@@mart3323 Kinda strange how that works... Atlantica uses an English (or at least Latin and/or Germanic) writing system. Actually, scratch that. Since Triton is the son of Poseidon, they would probably use a Greek alphabet which would''t look too different than the Danish alphabet when it comes to writing a single word (like a name). As a language, they would totally be different though.

[@damrod]

Not sure if they changed it or if i am just mixing up my KH games now, but i vaguely remember them piercing Ursula with a ship to make her go poof. Also, who revived Ursula here since she was supposed to be death after KH1... Oh and SCARtless is a terrible pun Dan! i know you can do better then these cheap and easy ones!

[@WannabeCanadianDev]

Some nice judo moves there.

[@endermage77]

Atlantica still doesn't know anything about how lyrics work

[@strengthcoachsc8669]

actually, hacuna matata means no trouble

[@Makyouhyoushyou26]

Bring me the disco king!

[@adamharris306]

Mufasa's facial animation in the flashback at 1:05 is...off

[@kaptenteo]

Why is there never any music in this game? I mean, in the cutscenes. Cutscenes with no music are really dull.

[@pyrosianheir]

More relevant question that Ariel /should/ ask - didn't Sora /kill/ you?

[@NobodyC13]

Yeah, Scar's jawline does not work in 3D. I remember when I was 14 and playing KHII for the first time after it finally got released, how much it pissed me off that they turned Atlantica into such a downgrade. Not only was the world extremely episodic and full of low quality musical rhythm games, but turning Ariel into a human should have been interesting, it should have opened new environments, and as Dan pointed out, nothing happens; did the gang actually spend three days doing nothing?

[@jon9828]

Lack of music is one part. The other I feel is the lack of connective tissue and banter in the dialogue. Makes the world feel off as you describe it

[@julieheinz9067]

Of the original songs KH2 brought to Atlantica for the rhythm and music segments, this was honestly the least...cringey to me. Can't quite put my finger on why.

[@bananatassium7009]

I think the forced sealing keyhole stuff has been my least favorite part of this entire game so far. It's just way too forced.

[@ThePlugMan86]

They really had no idea what to do with most of the Disney worlds in this game. They integrated stuff super well to worlds like say, Space Paranoids or Beast's castle, with stories that actually ties itself to the greater plot, but not so much with the other worlds. They really did feel like filler most of the time.

[@samuelturner6076]

BananaTassium Ok so it’s not necessary explained that well but we’re not actually sealing keyholes, instead we’re opening gates, (I know I’m a fairy knowledgeable KH fan I only now know because I searched it up to reply to this comment), which are basically special doors created by the worlds that allow us to travel between the worlds, even though the worlds are all sealed off so the heartless can’t get to them, however because the gates exist people like Pete and Org 13 can also get to the worlds and let heartless and nobodies in to destroy the gate so that they can attack the worlds keyhole to steal its heart. It makes sense for sora to be opening as many gates as possible as he wants to find Org 13’s world which could be through any of the gates he opens as far as he’s aware.

[@bananatassium7009]

@@samuelturner6076 I get the reasoning of course, it's just done in *such* a forced way. Like, the moment they 'win' there is some totally random thing that becomes a gate. If it was less cliche and overdone I don't think I would hate it nearly as much, personally.

[@samuelturner6076]

BananaTassium I can understand that, imo it’s not that forced, the objective of finding a macguffin and opening gates just wasn’t stressed enough to convey that it was a primary goal but that’s just me.

[@unversedhero6028]

@@samuelturner6076 It was literally explained at the beginning by Yensid, people just don't ever pay attention.

[@RatelRegalement]

Sorawr :D

[@countryhat5531]

Pat Carroll (Ursula) is a great voice actress, but boy, she's no singer.

[@Rallion1]

Is it just me or is pride rock just the kings fools meddling in a kinda boring KH1-style rehash of the exact movie plot?

[@nathanjxaxson]

The animation in the Ariel cutscenes is _soooooo_ bad.