Silver Bullets in cEDH | Episode 018

[@ameliaburton5313]

For Turbo Naus players in red, a card I cannot suggest enough is Rending Volley. It handles Lavinia, Thalia, Winota, Yasharn, Drannith, Notion Thief, Canonist, H̶u̶l̶l̶b̶r̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶r̶, etc.

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

It also kills Kraum!

[@lance8522]

And Tymna!

[@mightyone3737]

Also Post the Enchanter! You know, if you're a fan of the oldies.

[@fosterdawson7339]

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG and Thrasios!

[@falconlord7811]

Guys, thank you for ramping up production on these podcasts. I have a varying long commute so a 2 hour drive to work while listening to my favorite topic really helps :)

[@oodalumps]

29:06 The phrase is "couldN'T care less". If you "could care less", that means you care.

[@jasonb.3907]

My favorite thing to hear... "uhhhggg, that completely shutdown my deck." Insta hate-gasm.

[@birthingpod8200]

I once turn 1 drew Containment Priest against a Kykar Polymorph deck and a Tymna/Vial Smasher Dragon's approach deck.. Such a beautiful day

[@foxlabs8621]

I was actually doing a little bit of that “scrolling through all 1000 humans” but for a more grindy Circu list and I found this creature: Shipwreck Singer I saw it and added it to consider but the more I think about it the more and more I like. Oftentimes dimir suffers from a lack of board presence and this random siren not only has a decent airborne butt but also can nerf attackers (and is also a golden bullet for najeela) but also let’s you snipe hatebears or smaller value creatures by making them swing that turn. The more I type the more I want to add this but dang is that some spice haha.

[@Lasor4]

I love that Ian points out how he dives deep into Gatherer/Scryfall. Whenever I build a deck, people freak out that I start with 300 cards, but it's because I start off with a huge search and narrow down from 600. I've even started creating Excel sheets so I know exactly how much of each effect I have, and I always try to have a couple of "silver bullet" cards.

[@Porygonal]

Weathered Runestone tells underworld breach to eat its heart out. Highly underrated cheap foil btw.

[@eliasfajardo6148]

Nice video. I don't usually watch or hear podcasts but this has a pretty interesting theme.

[@WG_Zombeenie]

I've started running Withering Boon in nonblue decks that include black to still be able to answer Thoracle and Dockside before they get their ETB.

[@sagejackson6886]

Manglehorn has been a nasty one for me haha. It can blow up problem artifacts or just a rock in a pinch but the assymetrical artifacts enter tapped... omg so good. Led, dockside, turbo naus, random artifact decks... it either completely shuts them down or gives you an entire cycle around the table to deal with them

[@allbadmanners]

12:20 I would also like to say that codie kinda folds to chalice of the void and sanctum prelate but when you play those cards you are falling into stax and you don't usually throw them in for the purpose of hosing one deck but everyone's. But you name 1 CMC or put a single void counter and most of the cards now become useless.

[@Vpicks]

I used to despise commander because of how casual it was, and that you had to wait 3 turns before yours. Because of you guys, introducing me to Cedh, it's my favourite way to play MTG! Thanks so much!

[@eliasfajardo6148]

Dauthi Voidwalker is a pretty good card. Stops many opponents graveyard based deck, Ad naus, etc. Loved it at first sight.

[@paulmcclain642]

“Well actually I’ve done that once, suck it” I’m dying that is sooooooo true ppl really do say that a lot

[@thisisbigbear]

Used to be so proud of my avg 1.1 CMC TNT deck until I got blow out by a turn 1 chalice for 1.

[@yellowbot.league]

"There's nothing wrong with generic hate." That's a hell of a statement out of context lol

[@kevinsimmons5343]

You guys are so great! Never disappoint 🤘🏼

[@luccharmasson8324]

Soul-Guide Lantern should see more play imo, you can grab it off of Urza's Saga and there's a lot of decks focused on sculpting their graveyard. I think for the mana and the ability to draw you a card makes this a very slept on piece of tech.

[@jaredsmith6565]

Every deck with white in my playgroup has to include a containment priest for my wife's shuffle palani deck

[@zedbinx9328]

All I can say is (damping sphere) is amazing at slowing the game down for decks. Also good in decks that aren't in white or blue that want a rule of law/ cumulative turn based thorn of amethyst or thalia effect.

[@couchcommander5280]

Once upon a time, one of my opponents boardwiped a krenko player not realizing that Ashes had that second line of text about creatures dying, gaining me 200+ life. Don't sleep on ashes

[@Turn2Ugin]

Great episode kings!

[@JohnathonMinjarez]

A tad expensive but a found it in a friends binder and played it in yisan until i could afford strong cards. Titanina’s Song hosed treasures and most of my u/r/x decks

[@SpitePlays]

I keep pushing for gorilla shaman in winota lol. Needs to be in the primer :)

[@castineyra13]

My friend and I found out how backbreaking the Original Linvala was against my Izoni EDH. I used alot of sacrifice and recursion through spells but mostly activated abilities. It hit both of us like a train: "oh sheet, this pretty much shuts you down"

[@lucassloan1960]

This is why I'm glad I started to play Edgar Markov because idc if there's a drannith magistrate out on the field emmenience is still going to trigger

[@yooigomierdal]

Manglehorn helped me kill an ad nauseam deck

[@JustforKikX]

Not so much for cEDH, but when I got into magic my friend told me always run a piece of grave hate. Whether it's crypt or bojuka or something.

[@zwolf4118]

I like compost as a draw engine vs black decks.

[@MrGGLz]

I ran Lightning Bolt in my Kess deck.

[@valiantcoffee]

Angel of Jubilation has recently become one of my favorites for mono white or two colored decks with white, just because it shuts off so much since nobody can pay life or sacrifice things anymore

[@nickguevarra9088]

That giant werewolf reminds me of a scene of an Underworld movie..

[@OMGWHATTHEJANK]

A winota player at my lgs chalice of the void'd for 2

[@zacharyb.johnson5495]

Idk how good it is in cedh, but I really enjoy the card Pyxis of Pandemonium. Those topdeck tutors sure do cry a good cry when they see it on the board untapped.

[@Shmegg]

Magnetic Mine... cost 4 but all those Dockside treasure loopers and LED get big hate.

[@cryptkbanana]

Trickbind is an easy way to show Oracle players the door

[@joeylehman9649]

Steal enchantment in Orvar is a silver bullet for rystic and carpet of flowers

[@stevenfry7616]

While i don't play cedh i live Psychogenic Probe in my group slug deck. Dealing 2 everytime someone shuffles is great

[@torororos4800]

Containment Priest is soooo good against Yuriko and Winota.

[@marcusthompson7229]

The opposite silver bullet to choke is boil, if you like blowing up lands.

[@GoblinmasterYT]

My favorite silver bullet card is apocalypse chime

[@GoblinmasterYT]

Psychic surgery was my tech in modern lantern control

[@CheeseWedge056]

I play lavinia, I agree that she works much better in the 99 but that's irrelevant, I think people don't run the obvious silver bullet enough, meddling mage is great.

[@AresOMegas]

Let me just add this following concept that was not really discussed in the video. Silver bullets have a toolbox nature, they are mainly meant to be searched out by an engine or a suite of cards. You guys mentioned the Karnboard, and the Wishboards, as well as Sideboards themselves, which include a wide variety of Silver Bullets for each situation. While the cards themselves hosing/helping are a big part of the Silver Bullet concept, havings access to any one and all of them at any instance is as big a part of it too. Currently in Modern for example, there is a Yorion bling deck that utilizes Imperial Recruiter as a silver bullet tutor engine, and trimming on extra copies of things you would run in multiples (like Skyclave Apparition and other specific removal or advantage producers) effectively replicating the Silver Bullet situation in your main deck (unlike Karn and Wishboards which utilize the sideboard). Another such deck is Niv to Light, where Niv's ability (the main engine of the deck) gets you to your multiple silver bullets with his ETB (since it let's you select which ones to grab from the 10 card pile), but mostly Bring to Light serves as multiple copies of any one of your cards as well. In EDH, yes in theory black gets you any card in your deck so running the black tutors arguably makes it so you can easily run Silver Bullets (thus replicating the Silver Bullet effect on both ends). But I think the concept cannot be applied to other forms of tutoring that don't cover all your bases. Let me go into more detail: Enlightened Tutor in any white deck (multi color or otherwise) is not usually considered a Silver Bullet engine, since most than likely it does not cover enough bases just by itself. Most decks would use it for Mana or Card Advantage purposes (or for a combo piece) but they don't include enough Enchantments and Artifacts with effect that cover their other bases. Even if you run a lonesome Uba Mask for example just as an answer to your wheeling meta or a Deafening Silence, getting only 1 piece of hate doesn't replicate the effect in my opinion. In creature centric stax decks however, your tutors can lead to replicating the silver bullet effect since the vast majority of your tutors are focused on getting the same type of card, creatures, and many of your creatures have a desired function for a specific yet distinct scenario.This way, your Tutor suite takes the form of a Karn or a Bring to Light core, and your army of different hate creatures, removals on sticks, and value engines take up the role of your silver bullets. Captain Sisay and Birthing Pod are Silver Bullet engines that give you access to a theoretically limited amount of answers, but when you build around them you can have access to anything you need every turn going forward. Popular commanders like 5-Color Sisay and Yisan (like you mentioned) are able to easily and instantly create the Silver Bullet effect in their lists too. All in all, what I am trying to say is that the Bullets by themselves are not enough to repclicate the Silver Bullet effect, but a suite of ways to search them is needed in order to give them their toolboxy nature the term has been connected with. A very limited amount of Tutors grabbing one hate piece/answer is not accurately replicating the Silver Bullet effect we are seeing thoughout Magic. One card being only searchable by one other card can't be considered a Silver Bullet in my opinion, more like a tech. A Mystical Tutor grabbing either your Naus or your Cyclonic rift isn't enough diversity of effects/answers etc to consider that your deck has silver bullets in it (despite Cyclonic being a catch all card itself). What are your thought on this? PS: Down there in the Korvold server, people have started including cards that would let you replicate this effect for example. We have been toying with Caustic Caterpillar (it's better clone Outland Liberator, to be fair), Grist, Mayhem Devil, Xantid Swarm, Hope of Ghirapur and Grim Hireling once again since the reanimation packages support them really well, they cover a wide variety of situations, and we are already heavy on creature tutors due to the dockside plan. Not saying anyone is running all of them, but it is a good thing to note.

[@AresOMegas]

To add a non-creature based example, Urza and other artifact based deck replicate this really effectively with their artifact tutors like Fabricate grabbing Orbs (stax), Spellbomb (removal), Tormod's Crypt (Graveyard hate) or mana (which translates to card advantage with Urza) and run Tezzeret the Seeker which is a great Silver Bullet engine himself, giving you the option to tutor something out each turn. This Many-to-Many situtation when it comes to Tutors and Target Effects is what I consider a true Silver Bullet situation to be.

[@Dinnky13]

I used to play defense grid, more times than not I've either done the math wrong or had people pay for interaction on my win and then having to pass. I've since removed it since I am bad at playing with it and winning on same turn with it.

[@robertkimmel8649]

Avoid fate! Green countermagic? The spice is real

[@turn1sadness162]

My favourite silver bullet is Obliterate! Can't be countered, destroy all creatures artifacts and lands. Excellent if you can make infinite mana to rebuild after everyone else is out of the game, and is excellent in enchantment based decks. I can't say how many cedh games I've won because the only card left in play after obliterate is my smothering tithe or omniscience.

[@quequechanbushcraft1451]

Wheel of the sun and moon. Nonexistent graveyards anyone?

[@TsvetanVuchkovTeam]

Can't believe you didn't say anything about "dress down" - stops any creature based combo in the game like thoracle, buccaneer and so on. I mean this has to be the best anti-creature combo silver bullet in the game right now..

[@darkdragonXD1]

Was about to say that xD

[@picassodilly]

A thought about lier- maybe too slow for cEDH, but there’s a lot of spells the counter spells without actually “countering” spells. Memory lapse, unsubsatiate, narset’s reversal, commit/ memory, mindbreak trap, ertai’s meddling (one of my favorite jank counterspells), and to some degree even things like misdirection, flicker effects, or hexproof spells. Like I said, maybe hard to tune to cEDH levels (although not impossible, especially if a lier based strategy was tuned to be mid to late game so you could still run a force or two), but definitely could be spicy brew.

[@Magidex]

Hey guys, comment unrelated to the video: What about a deckbuilding challenge: Any partner pair is legal, including the guys who are strictly "Partner With".

[@markkarlo4869]

As graveyards become more and more utilized again, my pet card has become Ashiok, Dream Render. But that card gets better when you are the GY deck, like my Muldrotha, because it can dredge 4 cards per turn. it is included in all three of my decks that have UB.

[@BenLaakkonen]

I had a discussion with someone recently where they were trying to extol the virtures of running a card like Whirlwind Denial in a cEDH meta and I kept telling them that as good as the card could be, I found for the most part it's a three mana "do nothing card." I explained to them I liked the design of the card and what it does, but went on further to tell them that for three mana you really want to be doing more with a card. That's why I want to put it out there to the rest of the community, have you found Whirlwind Denial to be viable, or am I just bad?

[@ripkus5756]

At first glance it's a very attractive ability and I think that can cloud judgements concerning mana efficiency. Flusterstorm kinda fills this slot for a third of the cost but doesn't account for abilities (ex: Thoracle), which can be relevant. I will say 2U is a reasonable three mana cost. Whirlwind shouldn't be included in a counterspell suite, but could find a niche slot based on local meta. I think your opinion on it is solid.

[@BenLaakkonen]

@@ripkus5756 that was my analysis on the card to begin with so thank you for your conference, they told me they played against a cascade deck and that they had a hard time dealing with it until this card came around. Then again, there is Dress Down that kind of just shuts creature based shenanigans downs, and added bonus you can be playing white and use Heliod's Hall to get it back and hose your opponents multiple times.

[@ripkus5756]

@@BenLaakkonen Ah yes Dress Down and Hall, finally there's a Humility effect that's viable 😆

[@BenLaakkonen]

@@ripkus5756 it's a cantrip too. Draws a card I think right?

[@ripkus5756]

@@BenLaakkonen It sure is, which helps mitigate the card loss if you plan on recurring it with Hall of Generosity

[@thevergemtg2518]

I'm always hearing about the Founder's Club, but there is no information about joining anywhere... 🤷‍♂️😥 My understanding is, it's invite only. Which I feel actually is just doing the community a disservice. I get wanting to keep game play more professional, but having at least some way to apply/be an apprentice or something would be a nice way to keep it inclusive. I used to be a very dedicated climber, and one of the coolest things about it was that professional climbers climb at the same locations as novices. It was an extreme positive that isn't found in most professional level sports/games. Really interested to hear what people think about this..

[@Squirrelmob]

Online play spaces are, in essence, just large private playgroups. If people wish to keep some of those spaces limited that's their right to do so, and I don't think it hurts any sense of broader community in doing that. People are welcome to play with the people they want, and if they do that in a server they set up rather than draining off people in other servers then good for them.

[@nilshaukeholtfester9198]

Why gravediggers shuts Down razzaketh?

[@PlayingWithPowerMTG]

Razaketh cannot enter the battlefield from the graveyard, which is usually how it enters.

[@nilshaukeholtfester9198]

@@PlayingWithPowerMTG Ah, i thought you talk about the Tutor effect😅😂 thanks😁 i play it in a sisay enchantress deck and fetch my enchantments😁 i was schocked that i maybe cheated🙈

[@TheGrifcannon22]

Godo and Lavinia need to be partners.

[@DonLapa]

Physic surgery actually sounds really fun thx. I dont believe it is cEDH viable. However, you can perform a junk combo with "Partner with" legendary creatures ETB, target a player, make them shuffle and triggering Phychich Surgery just to name an example. Super junk xD

[@TheGrifcannon22]

The partner with shuffle is a may ability. Now Soldier of Fortune isn't.

[@jfb-]

psychic surgery does nothing against gitrog; they just do the loops in response to triggers and resolve them when the library is empty

[@DanielHolmenMusic]

Cool, now please do an episode on Sliver Bullets in cEDH

[@jor-elmasterofscheduling2002]

👍

[@mightyone3737]

Is building Rule of Law playing cEDH on Easy Mode? It massively simplifies the game, taking away so much shenanigan potential, and that certainly sounds easier to play in as a meta vs 'everyone has 3 counters waiting'. Also, I feel like you're calling out my Web of Inertia, which I included because I don't like Najeela running me down. I already have Solitary Confinement, so I have a very good way to protect myself, and Web is the worse one, but it prevents attack triggers vs me, which can be a big deal vs some decks... like Najeela. Also maybe 'cheat them in' Eldrazi? Who knows, there sure aren't very many decks that need attack triggers vs a specific player. I guess I could pull it for Malevolent Hermit, that's more universally relevant, protecting my win cons via an uncounterable creature. It costs mana, but I run tons of lands, and 7 mana to sink into a counter/big protection effect feels pretty good vs 'you can't attack me' when I already have (and always fetch first, since it stands alone) Solitary Confinement. It's not like I don't have multiple ways to permanently remove Najeela from the field if I need to, and she doesn't even come with Shroud. I can also wipe her tokens out repeatedly if it comes to it, at some opportunity cost obviously. Actually, the same combo that can repeatedly wipe her tokens can also just bounce her (or any commander) to the Command Zone each upkeep, nice incidental value. I use it as a combo piece, but Spirit of the Labyrinth is a pretty bullet-y card. It shuts down any method of drawing cards nearly, so if your deck is less dependent on drawing cards (Rule of Law), it is a really unpleasant surprise. Lots of the best Commanders are rated that way because they can draw cards, so it helps vs a lot of Commanders. I liked Defense Grid at first until I realized what you guys were talking about, and then didn't put it into my cEDH deck, it's almost always 'I lose after this'. It's a bit like Hall of Gemstone, if anyone says anything but U, countering anything becomes much harder. These seem good but probably will kill you most of the time in cEDH. I struggle with this aspect a bit because I just don't want to spend half the budget of my deck on a small selection of counters (and would have to build around the Forces or they'd be objectively bad inclusions), so I instead try to find ways to make countering bad or impossible. I think I like Wandering Archaic, it makes it easier for another player to counter a player's combo pieces, since they just don't pay 2 and you get a copy of their counter, they now need to counter twice, and pay 2 extra for each to protect. I also run Grand Abolisher, and Dovescape (which just turns off all non-creature spells), because these aren't super-likely to blow up in my face, but someone could creature combo vs Dovescape, or use lands, but compared to setting up a Defense Grid and just dying, these feel like interesting choices. Lavinia looks neat, but she seems so small compared to something like Grand Abolisher. I feel like if they could somehow print Lavinia on a Kobold for 1 or 0, it'd be an amazing option, but as is, it feels like she comes down too late. She might be a better choice than Cursed Totem to deal with Turbo Naus, those decks tend to be very thin on lands. Just a quick check, but at 29 land, you expect to see 5 lands after 18(!!) cards, so yeah, Lavinia is pretty mean to Naus. Vs greedy decks if you're transmuting for 4 MV, Clutch of the Undercity can just kill a player sometimes. It's narrow as hell, and paying 4 to do it will sting quite a bit, but if someone had to greedy Ad Naus, it's better than Demonic Tutor. I wish it also had a mode to make an opponent draw cards, to hit Consultation, but oh well, it's a 'bad' tutor for a win con, how much more can I expect from it? Perhaps we should let everyone lose and just start referring to Chulane as Chewie? He's clearly a big friendly wookie. Chewie would be in Bant (he's wiley enough that he needs U, and he's otherwise super-Selesnya), and he might have 4 toughness. I think if everyone is unhappy then we have clearly succeeded as a committee.