HOW GOOD IS KINNAN IN cEDH? THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST DECK TECH

[@xinyuanchen7853]

My very first cEDH experience was a 1-on-1 game with Tyler where he let me borrow Kinnan. I won because I accidentally bumbled into infinite mana and Tyler was nice enough to explain how I had just killed him. Now cEDH is one of my favorite formats, thanks dude!

[@InazumaKICKyt]

I'm patiently waiting for Kinnan to come back in March of the Machine on the side of New Phyrexia with black in his color identity and the title "Kinnan, Bondage Prodigy."

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Probably would be even more busted!

[@SirDavidPaladin]

He holds a whip now and wears black leather.

[@chadphillips8352]

@@SirDavidPaladin He's the "daddy" foil to Elesh Norn's "mommy."

[@vn01]

you just described tasigur, he's sultai too lol

[@Xeno-MTG]

​@@PlaytoWinMTG would bust some nuts definitely 😁

[@josephkoepke1251]

Im new to cedh and these podcasts the last 6-7 weeks has been have almost perfectly been synchronized with the new cards im adding

[@mthlay15]

I'm right there with you. I've been a subscriber since the days before having a life total on the screen. Hah I'm finally dipping my toe into building a deck. These guys are such great teachers

[@sambrown9475]

For real! Cams jeska, ishai jeskai list has been a big inspiration on my decks. Plus I love the name😂

[@Ryforge]

Tyler's enthusiasm when talking about every single card is inspiring. The detail he shares is invaluable! Keep up the awesome work team!

[@lawlanify]

I'm fucking brushing my teeth and you all collectively do the stare-into-the-camera and say wow, what a marvellous deck and of fucking course I can't help but spit it all out. You guys are wonderful, thanks for bringing the podcast to the channel, fucking love you guys. X

[@reillypasion218]

I have never even played a game of Commander, let alone CEDH, and this is probably my favorite MTG channel.

[@juggernautstark1]

Tyler sounds like a Bob’s Burger character. If nobody has pointed that out directly yet, you’re welcome. Anywho, we love Tyler, have him on more, if able. He adds a lot of value to the conversations, plus it’s always good to have a 3rd to caveat and point out what 2 (whoever) might have been either overlooked or misspoke to stave off the comment section. Lastly, I know it’s not your focus, but you could have an improv segment where Dylan & Tyler reveal a card and have Cam try to pronounce it, and we’d eat that shit up 🤣 maybe have it during the closing credits 🤷‍♂️

[@biggreenscott]

Kinnan was my first Cedh deck, and I loved this tech. Learned some new things and validated some of my own inclusions. Love the content guys. Thank you!

[@jarhead636]

this channel is the reason I got into cedh and Tyler is the reason I got into Kinnan. Been working on the deck for some months now and its finally almost completed I cant wait to give it a shot.

[@kyledarling9931]

I recently started playing cedh and I started with Kinnan because of watching it on this channel! I have been loving it!

[@blaaaarrrrgMTG]

This video was AWESOME. I'd love to see the deck tech format switch to this with the 3 of you together discussing the deck. It brings out valuable play insight mid video and makes it more engaging

[@Ian_Dierks]

Since you guys love the channel abilities so much, try including Colossal Skyturtle! It's sorta turned into a pet card of mine in Kinnan. Hits off of Kinnan for a late game beater but has 2 channel abilities. 3cmc regrowth (for any combo pieces that get destroyed or countered) and can bounce stax creatures such as Drannith / Collector Ouphe. It's a bit overcosted, but the versatility pushes it ahead for me. I've never had it in my hand and not had a use for it.

[@slaggs4633]

I knew the vibes were right when Tyler told the story of his Gilded Drake. When souls die, we thrive!!

[@adamfisher7099]

Love this! I really like the structure and flow of this breakdown: y'all do a great job with that always. I especially like seeing a deck that is often times not considered "S" tier in the format getting some love and attention. As a Brago player, I have a soft spot for 2 color midrange chicanery lol.

[@g4greed502]

brago midrange is so much more fun and consistent than Brago Stax

[@adamfisher7099]

@@g4greed502 Couldnt agree more. I've had much more luck playing disruptive control rather than full on long range stax.

[@BADBOO69]

One thing you didn’t mention about moonsilver key, it can also get you treasure vault since it is also an artifact with a mana ability. The synergy is *chefs kiss*!

[@joshuajohnson2532]

Played my very first cEDH game tonight with Kinnan. Thanks to Tyler for being super cool and inspiring me to pick up cEDH and Kinna

[@ma9ical1]

Thanks for sharing the love for your deck and spending the time going over it. Looks fun.

[@chadphillips8352]

Super awesome deck tech, guys. Special thanks to Tyler for the breakdown. Kinnan is one of my 3 cedh decks, and I always enjoy watching breakdowns on him. You guys are awesome.

[@aaronupward]

You can also use Moonsilver Key to get Treasure Vault since it taps for colourless. Great deck breakdown 👍🏻

[@robbiehardy3228]

I don't know if it's happened before, but I would really like to see a pod with Winota and Kinnan, and maybe two other creature strategies. Could be cool, but you guys make great content, so thanks!

[@jordanwale8946]

I have an all in artifact combo kinnan deck and this video has convinced me to change to the midrange plan. It looks so fun.

[@Ruebx]

Been following the Channel for a long time now and a large part of that has been for Kinnan! been playing it for over a year now and still my Favorite cEDH deck!

[@TripsAhoy]

Always good to hear about a deck from the pilot! This one for sure we have seen so many times. Great deck.

[@Flip4Crypt]

AYYYYY Kinnan was my first (and still main) cEdh deck and I've loved watching Tyler play Kinnan everytime it comes up This is exactly what I needed pumped into my veins!! I also totally agree with Tyler, I was happy to see him include the artifact lands- nothings better than a gemstone caverns, artifact land, mox and mana crypt is insane

[@bencheesecake]

Loved the level of detail, thanks Tyler for the in depth explanation on both the deck in general and your choices!

[@MufasaTheMan]

This podcast is my favorite cEDH content by far! Keep it up please!

[@ergjr1]

A lot of my own deck building choices used here. I feel very gratified, thanks Play to win!

[@salthekato]

Love the content man ! Keep it coming , friends just shooting shop talk is the best man. Tyler is pretty informative , more Tyler please :)

[@magnetic_heart]

This was a great podcast!! Loved the updated card images as you were talking about them. Makes following along super easy!

[@byd1516]

I really love these type of deck techs, keep 'em coming!

[@gearsocfenix]

Perplexing chimera was a combo piece in Roon decks back in the day with seedborm muse! People use to also play Mystic snake and deadeye navigator in the same deck! The deck also used gilded drake as well! It is sad that edhrec only shows decks 2 years old or less so people forget about all the cool stuff people use to do!

[@Vyse86]

Love the Prince Ashitaka alter! Great episode.

[@joelprive3458]

Love it! I've been playing the mirage mirror version for the last 2 years and am in love with the fast combos but waiting for dockside ban, I believe this Chimera line caught my attention, especially with the full combo with homeward and muse that's amazing!

[@donteatpaint]

Excellent content. Please do more of this style.

[@marcusforrest3172]

Loved the breakdown of the deck, wouod love to see more of these

[@grain_death]

Tyler has convinced me to build kinnan finally you love to see it

[@murrowmench1565]

The princess Mononoke alter is great too! You’ve heard of sleeveless shirts - now it’s time for SHIRTLESS SLEEVES

[@maximillieagreen3323]

Perplexing Chimera is my favorite magic card :') so happy that it has other fans

[@puntedagain398]

there is just something about listening to smart people talk about a thing that they love. so good.

[@swat6591]

*Give great insight into Kinnan* "I'm sorry" -Tyler, 2023

[@robertcastiglione5995]

Not only did you guys touch upon copying metamorph with copy enchantment which came up in the latest episode, the mox opal artifact land turn one came up too lmfao I love that

[@chewdustfreeze]

Just fully built this today and I am loving it.

[@haynryan87]

Thank you for bringing up moonsnare prototype. I thought I was too high on this card but it's a great card that no one sees coming.

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

I wonder what the odds are I can get Tyler to reply to me? I’m building Kinnan irl. Just acquired Cradle and Trop in one transaction and I’ve got all the other pieces I need. Here is my question; Running Boseju, otawara, treasure vault, cradle, minamo, and homeward path in my list. Does it maybe make sense to play Sylvan scrying? A 2 mana to hand tutor that can get my mana fixer, bounce spell, Boseju, cradle, or one ring untapper/homeward path for chimera .. seems pretty damn good. But I see it in zero lists. What do we think? Anyone?

[@Jonaltram]

I am also a Kinnan player. I prefer relic of legends to springleaf drum, it cost more but can produce more. Also I don't like the tidespout combos so I use walking ballista as a mana sink / win-con. Otherwise mostly exactly what I run. Eager to try perplexing chimera.

[@dylanpruitt4814]

YESSSSSS so pumped this actually happened!

[@drboofensmirtz6249]

I played this list for the first time a week ago and I got to resolve a turn 2 concentrated sphinx 😊

[@pirateye68]

producing the episode as you go is great :)

[@thuperr2017]

i remember when i saw this card get announced, at the time i was playing rashmi so i saw kinnan and kinda just shit myself on the spot. Genuienly one of the most adaptable decks ive ever had the fortune of playing. Winning in a sense is super simple but you have SO many options to actually get there. Just seeing a cedh deck get to run nezahal makes me really happy

[@elemint2]

Please do more deck techs. There are a few reoccurring decks that you guys play that would be great to see.

[@absolutelymassive9482]

Complete side note: wouldnt it be great if the flavour text for void winnower was ‘Nothing is even’

[@williamprudhomme91]

I love that your podcast is right before commander clash, it makes for an awesome friday morning early afternoon to start the weekend. Thanks again for the amazing content. Ps If you're ever looking for a theme, I'd love to see a commander game with retro border only. Urza would probably be busted ngl

[@seankeane769]

Wow, what a marvelous deck.

[@kairucamp]

So happy to see this, my first deck was kinnan xD

[@tehfurbolg4960]

Great to watch, that was interesting and fun!

[@jimmyb2655]

I love my Kinnan deck, it started as a casual sea creatures deck and has morphed into an absolute monster, and I don't even have the 0 drops in your list!! Mine is slow in comparison and still outperforms.

[@toctheyounger]

I love perplexing chimera. Nice to see it get some recognition for the truly frustrating card it is.

[@RandonActs5]

It could be pretty crazy to respond to a bolt targeting something else with chimera trigger, in response malakir rebirth, and target chimera with both. You are still exchanging 1 for 1 but you end up with chimera to perplex your opponents even more.

[@torlarpninsrisukkul-op3tw]

Mirage mirror is another potential color filter once Kinnan goes infinite with basalt. As long as you have lands that can produce blue and green mana

[@shinigami_0127]

The very first time I played this commander, I went in blind using my friends cEDH list at a pod. (Keep in mind this was my first time ever using it) I went infinite activating Kinnan till all of my creatures were in play, killing the table with craterhoof behemoth

[@codyleporini2309]

I would love to see this for every one of the decks you guys have. I would love to see one of Magda or of vial smasher thrasios or najeela

[@imanimason5858]

I love y'all deck tech videos!!! Keep it up!!!

[@Nullking_]

I’m not a CEDH player, but I have been looking at Kinnan for some time now as more of a 7-8 power level deck. I like these style of decks where they are just value town decks and play big ridiculous things.

[@mightyone3737]

I feel like if you're running Perplexing Chimera, you might like Wandering Archaic, it does weird things in a meta with lots of instants (which has been known to happen in cEDH), everyone else's interaction is almost completely unplayable vs you, but it's super-strong at stopping your other opponents, it becomes really hard for anyone else to win if this gets out.

[@timmyturner6478]

I have a cEDH kinnan deck that is 100% different. It has a ton of tutors and draw effects that utilize the ~30 mana dorks in the deck to find one of three separate infinite mana combos in the deck. After finding any of the combos, you use one of your “target player draws x cards” (like blue suns zenith) either on an opponent or thassas oracle to use it on yourself.

[@timmyturner6478]

Ps. It sounds like a lot of steps but this deck wins very reliably (~75% of the time) on turn 4. The rest of the wins are almost always turn 2, 3, or 5 with some very rare (

[@bloodblade487]

Hey awesome episode! In terms of notable exclusions, any thoughts about counterbalance and Sensei's divining top? :D

[@zeek4540]

Awesome video! Is there a link to Tyler's decklist?

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Updated!

[@jelly_Mtg]

Wow! What a marvelous deck

[@TunedToDoom]

Kinna is my all time favorite cEDH deck. It's so resilient and can either be explosive or grindy depending on the build. Sad to see it's been sort of pushed out of the meta lately? I've always had fantastic results with it in any pod.

[@ScoopPhase]

Hell yeah. I got to play some games with Tyler in Philly against kinnan. All 3 of yall are great...also

[@LaMalaSuerteX3]

I run kinnan as my only cedh deck since it’s so much fun but I’ve had prismite to allow me to get my basalt colorless into colored and I can play into kinnans ability for a 3 card combo.

[@alexlohko2642]

Any thought on playing Urza, Lord High Artificier in the deck? It's another outlet for colorless mana and also a way to get around ouphe and stony silence to make mana.

[@Turn2Ugin]

Definitely worth consideration

[@benjamingrubb6314]

I think the biggest issue is you can't get him with Kinnan, so he's not a consistent option

[@jameslamaison1182]

Hello there, great video, very insightful thanks a lot! just had one question, appreciate he's a bit of a dead card (like Thoracle) unless we are not ready to win, although what do you think of Ambassador Laquatus? wouldn't he help with instant speed wins especially? less clunky than the Endurance loops? I'm new to cedh but see that he's never mentioned..

[@yaakovkagel1015]

Love the videos! Keep up the good work.

[@starchball3359]

Deck tech was cool and all, but I couldn’t help but notice the Berserk Deluxe volumes in the back 👀👀👀

[@austinmayer8647]

Hey one thing I like to hear about in these videos is opening hands to look for… any chance that could be the next Friday podcast?

[@MomirsLabTech]

I've been getting more interested in the format as of late, and as a long time Maelstrom Wanderer player I think that Kinnan could be a good route for me to go to try out the format but still feel a bit at home with my core strategy.

[@koreyg8552]

There’s also that eldrazi creature that lets you draw your deck with colorless mana

[@mcolby7214]

Dude he plays perplexing chimera! I love that one with homeward path. Unironically, I thought he was a better jin-gitaxias

[@MrMayophone]

Have you consider bribery? Turn 2 stealing a dockside into more mana for kinnan is pretty good. I have been playing kinnan for a year now and i recently added bribery and in my playgroup it is really solid. It's still not a dead card on its own if there's no dockside around the table. I'd love to hear your toughts on it.

[@Sharp2792]

Hey I just saw that the moxfield deck in the link has 99 total cards. I didn't see Otawara there, which would put you at 29 lands total. Would you add that or another interactive piece like minor misstep?

[@devonpendergast6803]

This was phenomenal

[@feelthedeuce]

Thorn of amethyst could work as that extra thalia effect considering all the artifact matters synergies?

[@TheVaultDescendant]

I have a dumb question. Why deos this deck not run Intruder Alarm? I feel like it would most often be a "single" card win con (assuming dorks are on the field)

[@Big_Appa-]

Just a heads up. Moonsilver key can’t search out the channel lands because they’re not basic lands.

[@ronmcguire9045]

Doubling the mana with vorinclex would still trigger your monolith line and also slow any lands your opponents tap. Is there reason nyxbloom is ran over it other than it says triple instead double?

[@brianrichards1268]

Why not add 1) instill energy and 2) layline of abundance? My Kinnan deck is similar (more untapping, more budget, about power 8), but if I had all the cards in the world, I would likely keep those two in it. Your thoughts?

[@SaintJimmy36]

wow, what a marvelous deck

[@noahsnyder7835]

why wouldn’t you run chord of calling instead of summoners pact? it only adds 3 mana to the creature instead of 4, plus it puts it right on the board at instant speed, and you can tap creatures that usually don’t tap (kinnan, seedborn, etc) to help cast it

[@mandielyn0416]

I play Kinnan in all of my bgx decks to get a lower impact of the same benefits. Fetch him a lot with chord or imperial recruiter in Kalamax.

[@fosterdawson7339]

I currently play Pako/Haldan birthing pod, im wondering if Kinnan sounds interesting as well because I can get Con Sphinx + more

[@ingolf82]

this is funny, I just got done watching a EDHrec video about various topic and one of them was "simic value engines" and then there is this video. I have to ask. As a casual player, I have removed all my rec sages from my green decks and replaced them with "Druid of Purification" instead and it can hit up to 3 more things, assuming each player votes for a different thing, at worst its a rec sage that costs 4 mana, which is not a problem in Kinnan, so I would run purification druid over the rec sage in 99% of the cases, unless you have a creature fetches that fetches for 3 cmc or lower

[@marcellopozzessere1656]

19:45 is "life pressure totalling" the new "first chain food sliver" ? :D

[@zerobeat98]

moonsilver key can also get your treasure vault if you're in a pinch for the colored mana part of the basalt combo and already have basalt in hand

[@yvorpulaschkov2575]

Moonsilver Key can only tutor for the artifact or a basic land.

[@murrowmench1565]

“Let’s talk about lands.” “There are no lands in the deck.” Minamano do dooo do do do

[@ralphcrisci8359]

Does Tyler have anything to say about Jin-Gitaxis not being in the list?

[@damo9961]

Would you ever consider the blue RoL, Arcane Laboratory in this deck?

[@josebrandao9417]

The decklist listed isn't outdated? There are talked cards that are not in the decklist

[@satpiegaming6756]

One question - Tyler, have you ever hit gilded drake off a kinnan activation to take back your perplexing chimera? 🤔

[@supremecourt4131]

Is this deck still playable without Cradle, Monolith and Diamond?