BREWING CEDH SITUATIONS - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

[@joshbarr810]

Just as a heads up, there is a button on moxfield that adds cedh staples so that you can make a skeleton real quick. That way you don't have to add sol ring, then add mana crypt. Real convenient.

[@mrbelbobaggins8959]

Whoever bids the lowest or tied doesn’t wheel. Everyone else does. Whoever bids the highest loses that much life.

[@theatog]

honestly i don't understand the hate for this card. It's just original wheel with "opt out" option. Here is the situation I feel most commonly happen: - Someone didn't want to wheel. Then all you need is to bid 1 life. It's only bad when: - Everyone else in the table wants to wheel - Everyone else in the table DON'T want YOU to wheel (and you are also low in life?)

[@eternaleclypse]

To clarify: - Pick or tie with the highest number = take damage and wheel - Pick or tie with lowest number = no wheel - In between highest and lowest= no damage, just wheel - Everyone ties = Everyone takes damage, and no one wheels

[@therealax6]

@@theatog I'd say it's bad here because you can't use it offensively (to make someone discard their win condition or something) and because you can't use it at low life. Both seem like CEDH-specific scenarios to me.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I think the point we didn’t stress enough is your opponents can make you NOT wheel. You can cast 3 mana to not only do nothing, but another opponent who wants to where might be able to.

[@jonlamoreaux1889]

​@@PlaytoWinMTG exactly, too many variables for a cedh list

[@xXCigarXx]

I like the cedh situation segment. That really should be a regular thing.

[@andrewfisher1849]

Dylan talking about your casual decks really makes me want a video dedicated to them!

[@justinstraz8572]

Would love to hear more about those casual decks you have. Know this is a cEDH podcast, but you can tell you put time and energy into those brews...would love to see them!

[@timtauber5557]

Also as far as brewing decks. You could talk about outdated decks that no one plays anymore, that need to be revisited due to many new cards entering the card pool that could make that deck viable again

[@timtauber5557]

Examples could include Gaddock Teeg, Azami, lady of scrolls, Baral, chief of compliance, Eight and a half tails, Deretti, scrap savant. There are many commanders from the past that could be updated.

[@TNDNBTG]

Make Meren Tier 1 again 😢😢😢

the cEDH situation section was pure gold

[@timtauber5557]

More Cedh situations like bullying a player to make the play you want them to make so you can save your interaction

[@dancer6452]

I love the cedh situations segment, I think having it as a regular part of the podcast will be SUPER helpful to improving not only mine but others gameplay and decision making skills

[@salthekato]

So glad you guys came back to this format . Love it, keep it up.

[@SirBaldy1026]

If I'm not mistaken on Wheel of Misfortune, the only person who doesn't wheel are those that choose the lowest life total. So if 3 people choose 0 and one person chooses 1 then the only person that would wheel is the one who chose 1 while the other 3 wouldn't wheel. It states that only the person/persons that choose the lowest life won't wheel.

[@ozirus3344]

I guess their scenario still holds - the table could agree to bid over you. But I would be paranoid of not bidding 0 if I had Force in my hand to stop whatever you’re about to dig for. I see both sides of the argument, especially in the Ad Naus situation (you already paid 3 to draw it).

[@Turn2Ugin]

First Chain Food Sliver goes hard as fuck

[@Ian-cox]

Super fun to watch the boys talk through situations. Hope to watch/listen to lots more situations in the future

[@Lilfluffygoofball87]

I love play to win podcast 👍

[@lawlanify]

Such a good, refreshing take on cEDH that makes it seem so much less scary. It's commander as I love it but higher into the efficiency and what I want to get myself closer to as someone new to the game wanting to learn a competitive approach to the game

[@GodammitNappa]

Bouncing tymna off thrasios is always the right play if you play adnaus. Also, the last 5 minutes is proof at the energy you guys bring. Keep up the great videos!

[@marcjane188]

Such interesting topic! Please do more chapters like this one.

[@shinleal]

The CEDH situation migh be called CEDH SCENARIOS, or CEDH Play Analysis... GLad to see the podcast come back..

[@ingolf82]

my process of building high power decks is the same as Dylans. I take a cEDH list from the database, take out all the 100+ $ cards, sometimes even the 50+ $ cards, add in budget alternatives and thats how I arrive at my high power lists. like in my Temur Pirates list. I took the list you guys play, took out force of will, mox diamond, jeweled lotus, and the OG duals and added 3 more lands in instead of the mana rocks (so up to 30 instead of 27), I added in things like "long term plans", which, with brainstorm can fetch me Glint-horn to my hand. that is basically my process for building high-powered decks. I dumb down a cEDH list slightly, like, I added Tooth and nail, the locust god, sage of the falls and a Kozilek, Buther of truth to my Temur pirates deck as an alternative win con. You can cast tooth and nail turn 1, even on a budget, then you fetch the locust god and Sage of the falls and it goes infinite with Kozilek in the library, and then you have infinite locusts with haste and attack for lethal. Ikra-Bruse is just fun right? it's like, Doran the siege tower + red. big butts matter, but yeah, I can see why it's no a good cEDH list.

[@faperito2389]

Please keep these going, I love them. Perfect.

[@___MTG___]

Its nice to hear some love for casual, maybe a future podcast episode about casual decks you play and your casual philosophy

[@Bobbeloud]

Interesting talk about Tymna getting better/worse simultaneously. I felt the same way about Malcolm when Hullbreacher got banned. Was really sad to lose a great pirate out of that deck but then I immediately noticed that the deck was WAY better without 3 other potential Hullbreachers at the table that could all shut off the Glint-Horn combo. Cool podcast!

[@drpepper998]

I liked the video. When I brew I like to try to do something different and not just netdeck. I'll look at several deck lists and see what they have in common between them and then what is different. This is where I'll start from. Then I'll do my take on what the commander provides use some of the cards from both of these pool of cards to fleash out the deck. Once I'm at 100, then I go through and try to make it as efficient as I can in what I'm trying to do with the commander.

[@TheSpunYarn]

"First Slivir Food Chain" is a great vocal warmup imo

[@joelprive3458]

I love how this video turned out , would be amazing if you did the same formula with other Brewers ! My personal favorite is Pongo

[@briceaxner5599]

So prologue to phyresis and Krark thousand faces is just something else but lose the videos just became a Patreon so looking forward to even more videos to watch

[@Putrefax]

If you can cast a spell 10 times with Krarks out, then you should have already won the game instead of just poisoned one person. Card is meh at best.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Each opponent gets the poison counter! Though your point still stands

[@ThaCardSlinga]

The discussion on fish and Rhystic was very interesting. I think pod competition dictates how dangerous those cards are. Those cards are not nearly as dangerous in Stax pods, as those decks are mostly creature based, slow the pace of card actions down, and tend to run mana creatures that bypass or help pay the tax. Excellent discussion.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thanks!

[@NeonXprime]

Facts I remember I played a slow stax pod I got fish on turn 1 My opponents decided to not play anything until turn 3

[@Theorak]

The bigger question with fish is, when to play it. With a stax deck, I've often had it turn one, did not draw any cards and lost mana on it, while the other decks are creature based and not minding starting a few turns later if I can't follow up with another draw engine. Fish on turn two so much better, the opponents actually start to think about it.

[@aidanschauer1581]

As a dad first and cEDH player second, I 💯 do the Dylan approach to pick an archetype and add/remove 15ish cards

[@Racnive]

Regarding opponents' input: Your opponents are a resource. If you're having trouble understanding someone's combo line, where to interact, or evaluating threats, ask the other opponents! Obviously don't just do what they say blindly without evaluating it yourself, but *sometimes* "the enemy of your enemy is your friend." This is especially relevant if you're new to cEDH.

[@rafael3646]

loving the more frequent videos!

[@TripsAhoy]

Yes def good topics. Like seeing more of this.

[@Vyse86]

Which database are you looking at for cEDH decks? I'd love to proxy a deck to get into the format. Great content as always!

[@simonp4832]

Google the cedh decklist database 👍🏾

[@lucascoutinho2441]

My take on politicking is the other players can present you new information which changes your decision. Your individual plan can mildy increase your win chance while the two player plan can increase the win chance for both players more significantly. If there's no new information/relevant reminder it's better to stick to your original plan that doesn't have the other players bias.

[@tonyvillalta4487]

Watching you guys makes me want to get into cEDH but I’m too scrub to know how or where to start

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Watching content is a GREAT place to start!

[@vladahermansky710]

nice great video guys thx but honestly i would like to hear Dylan tell us more about his Edh fun decks Cameron too for sure the Raffiq swords really got my attention

[@vaevictis934]

Question about when to scoop. If you've tried to win and been stopped in a bad way, for example world gorger exiling all permanents, would you scoop then or start from nothing and keep trying? Is that a 1%?

[@alecsweatpants1130]

Great, now I can say “Play To Win told me to not listen to my friends” when I sit down at a table. Perfect excuse to blow their things up

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

I'd love your thoughts on my food chain brew because it's not the typical blue black green food chain but I love that I have like 5 lines it can win with

[@aidansawyer5394]

First chain food sliver is actually a good name for the deck

[@SeriosSkies92]

wheel of misfortune isnt about wheeling your opponents. its about wheeling YOU after you drop your hand. But even then i also cut it like 95% of the time. Tymna/Jeska was the most recent place i liked it. but that stems from mardu's weaknesses, not misfortunes strengths.

[@ethantroxel1036]

24:21 that look Dylan gave into the camera caught me off guard

[@BionMTG]

I will always have one cedh list for when my group wants to play at that level. By in large we play theme decks as strong as they can be built (without the fast mana rocks, and open tutors). Specific tutors are fine, but D Tutor, and just open ones remove the variance. Brewing in that format lets you hit up scryfall and dig out the obscure cards that are on theme. Googling cards that have X or Y in the art, etc. cedh is fun, but it is not really a brewers format imo. a majority of the decks are 95% built as soon as you pick the commander / how it wins. You do have a few flex, pick your pet cards, like cutting wheel of misfortune (which i agree with). I dont like pita in an ad naus list, but weirdly you see them together on occasion, but damn, that is the bad feels to hit that when flipping for ad nause. haha

[@addicted2SODA1]

How down on aAutumn's Veil are you? Do you think it deserves a cut from something like ukkima food chain? Is offer just better?

[@AutumnMacGregor]

The best way I've found for when to listen to people trying to use politics, is to ask them why I should. If they can point out a clear reason that doesn't obviously benefit them, I'll probably do it. More often than not, that comes up when I'm trying to decide which pieces to remove on the same person's board instead of deciding between multiple people. Like having Assassin's Trophy, and I'm trying to decide which value engine to target that the Urza player has out 🤣

[@dewrules235]

I don’t play cEDH. I’m just here for shenanigans.

[@MexcanNinja]

I would say even when building Cedh eventually at least 30-40 cards are going to all be the same. Just due to control, ramp, and creature base. i wouls day20-30 cards are what makes the difference for sure.

[@Soriano98]

I think it’s fine to scoop whenever if it’s solo mainly because almost all my edh decks are just combo or otk type decks but in pod i agree just read the room someone might have an answer I mean god knows how many 2 mana murder cards

[@Highwang]

So is cEDH scenarios gonna be a segment now? I personally have two that i’d like to ask about.

[@Fogshaper]

why would i ever want to cast a wheel of misfortune after i've resolved my ad nauseam though? the reason to play wheel of misfortune is to dump your opener and then cast wheel of misfortune. the chances that nobody or almost nobody wants to wheel are high and you'll usually get away with paying 2-3 life. it's a lot worse than twister, windfall, and wheel of fortune but if you're in rakdos (like, rog/tevesh, prosper) i think you want wheel of misfortune in your deck.

[@timhellum5587]

I built yuriko. And love it but I want to find a creature based strategy and in was think of trying henzie tool box

[@bdrsescanor6804]

If you dont score, I wont, well ok, "heres the ball 🤣

[@official_uhu]

mind sharing your casual decklists?

[@salchi-papa]

I'd love to know the banlist you have set up for casual decks you build @Dylan.

[@connorbell5340]

Go check out his moxfield and his casual decklists it's in there!

[@salchi-papa]

@@connorbell5340 Oh that's so good to see

[@toonvanzijl2351]

I thought your patron asked about brewing for non-edh formats... Still love the podcast obviously 😉

[@anthonymarciano6050]

I really want you to name the deck 'Food sliver first chain'

[@cesarayma7320]

More P2W podcast episodes, fuck me up 😩 Thanks y'all for putting out amazing content

[@robertschumann6960]

The politicking topic was super interesting. I always hope people are helping me with lines but there are times people use politics to try and win in cedh and I'll try just play my deck as best as possible

[@Disorbex]

You guys talked a-lot about wheel of misfortune being a bad card. What about it being in a mono red with like Godo or other commanders? Is it still bad in mono red?

[@w4tch0ut10]

I play it in a mono red stax Daretti list. But it's debatable how much "c" really is in that EDH deck 😁 At least, it's not seen a truly competitive in comparison to other decks. But it's definitely great in that list.

[@MattViviani]

I find it weird to hear you guys say in the same podcast “I save my counters for win conditions” and “I don’t ever play Spellsnare.” The 3 big win cons in CEDH are MV 2, and there are plenty of other targets.

[@nickdemichele5269]

This makes me want to draft cedh Take a pod and have them draft the 100 the only things that each person can have multiple of is basics everything else is drafted and see what brews people come up with After the draft you could trade cards out with all the other cards that went un drafted

[@therealax6]

What would your draft pool be? I assume this would be a cube format of sorts.

[@nickdemichele5269]

@@therealax6 no just a one copy of each card in mtg. Would be interesting what people would prioritize. Interaction, fast mana, or even mana fixing I have no clue if it would be good, but would be interesting to see it play out

[@toonvanzijl2351]

About Cameron's win rate with Ikra/Bruse: 2/11 is statistically not different from average. If it is 2 out of 11, it is 25%. Not literally, but neither would 3 out of 11 be. Even if Cam meant 2 out of 13 games, mathematically average win rate should be 3 in 13. If you take into account that there is always variance, 2 is not statistically different from 3 with such a small sample size. This is a general problem with brewing to win (which i assume you're doing in cedh) for commander: your win rate is average at 25% and you need to play an enormous amount of games to see if your win rate is actually higher or lower. Cameron actually mentions games off camera that he won, rather than saying he lost even more of those. Memory bias could put a 70% lose rate into a feeling that the deck struggles. It is too easy to feel that your deck is not performing well, when you're only looking at win rate.

[@jean-paulbascelli1078]

I think the honest hindrance to brewing is staples/win cons. In a brutally efficient format like Cedh, I don't think there is a ton of room for innovation. Yes, out-of-the-box decks like the Rakdos deck that made a recent appearance are possible, however, not the norm. Cedh is predominantly hemogenized, so you're typically going to be playing against the same swath of staples, regardless of the Commander. It's just the way Cedh is by its nature since playing the best, most efficient cards and strategies is the core of the format. Sure, you can brew to your hearts content, but the staples aren't going anywhere unless new and more busted cards enter the format.

[@faperito2389]

I think that there's a pretty good amount of innovation and variations and new cards finding homes. Though I agree with you regarding the rest of your comment.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

That is the case for any established card game / meta. Knowing what to expect to play against is the good part. Knowing what to play around is the good part. There are still tons of new things happening all the time just more nuanced

[@faperito2389]

@@PlaytoWinMTG hard agree here

[@thetokenasian77]

Do you guys proxy all your cards? Or just proxy cards you already own?

[@yurplethepurple2064]

In cedh it’s sort of the opposite, the cards you proxy, for a lot of players, are the cards you don’t own because they cost multiple thousands of dollars.

[@HughMurphy395]

I feel like WoM is only essential for Mono-red builds.

[@Nemesis653]

34:58 is wrong. That sounds like a harsh way to put it and I don't mean it rudely(love the channel and you guys) but it's not an opinion it's a fact. Politics are a part of the game as it's a multiplayer format and it's extremely important to increasing your odds of winning. I'd say the big 3 of winning is the deck you bring, your piloting skill, and your ability to politic. You shouldn't be so afraid of making a bad deal you ignore a major factor in who wins. Saying things like "I want to swing at this player who's being a problem for everyone but I would be killed on the clapback if you all swing at me. Can you agree to not attack me if I take him out", "He's doing something scary so if you guys could play cards without paying for the Rhystic Study so I can fish for answers I'll try to stop him"(Even if you already had an answer in hand this wastes your other opponents resources while drawing you cards for free. Even if it gets you ahead for later sometimes they need to stop the current problem and have to agree), "I can Intuition for a Force of Will to stop this if someone is willing to choose it for me", "I could keep blowing up your Pako(random example whatever) but we will both run out of resources and lose. If you agree to not swing at me with him I wont remove him(mutually beneficial, weakens all other opponents, and you can keep interaction for Haldan and Divergent Transformation like cards) etc. Also sometimes when someone is pointing out how scary a card is that card is actually that scary. Yeah people will undersell their threats and upsell opponents and its just something to evaluate when judging the gamestate. Tldr: Obviously everyone wants to win but that's regardless of if they're offering a deal. Deals can still be mutually beneficial, often keep you from losing, and can literally win you the game or it least give you free resources while draining opponents. This is cedh. Work every angle from deck construction to playing it out for the win(that doesn't ruin people's fun. Don't purposefully try to tilt others). Alot of cedh players seem almost afraid of politics and it TANKS their winrate. Commander isn't 1v3 if you also use your opponents as resources.

[@StudioNBS]

Discuss scooping in priority order to avoid calling out someone’s hail mary interaction 😂

[@smolclips5996]

The politics part is so true. Have a friend who does it at my lgs and convinces people to kill me all the time. Some people just don't know how to take politics lol

[@johnreyes5276]

best podcast lol

[@SqueezeBurger]

This is just a low key way for Cam to ask Dylan, how do I git gud?

[@spencerghattas8185]

Wheel of misfortune claims two more victims

[@kylemordaunt1896]

berserk books???

[@swoppydo3794]

So you're telling me that brewing in cEDH is the same as professional software development?

[@SylveonSimp]

man, where is Tyler :(

[@RLKC8]

Food sliver first change looooooooooooooooooooool

[@rickvance5197]

What sport is Dylan talking about where it is 4 different sides playing to win at the same time that analogy doesnt really work at all.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Like nascar. Or any race

[@ashleyfernandes3094]

maybe u end the podcast the way you start things with "BEGIN" with saying " THE END"? just and idea to try

[@TheRealLachlan]

Just thought of a podcast topic. Decklist brewing and AI. Can AI 'solve' cedh? Does it rob us of part of the hobby? Reduce viable deck lists? Would like to hear your thoughts.

[@heirkaiba]

LetThemCook.