HYBRID MANA RULE, OUR NEW COMMANDERS, AND UNDERRATED DECKS - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

This week, Dylan and Cam talk about the hybrid mana rule in Commander, decks they think get a bad rap in cEDH currently, and the new decks they are building!
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[@benjamincarter6095]

0:01 Intro 0:18 Random thought #1 0:54 Vocal warmups 1:55 A word from our sponsors 11:36 Random thought #2 20:20 No longer the worst color 23:32 Future random thought 25:34 Please unban this other card 29:26 Good, yeah, definitely good 29:42 Indecisions 30:00 Settling for good enough 31:30 Playing both sides 32:32 The other's modern life 32:45 He's bringing it back 32:53 Who sucks? 32:56 Assman 35:41 Birthing pod & the kitchen sink 36:24 Indecisions II 40:20 Wrap it up! 41:26 One liners (are you joking?!?) 41:48 What should we ramble on about? (aka an honest name) 41:57 A mostly coherent recap 44:13 Under the table is slippery In all seriousness, this was great guys. The series should be called Cam's Random Thoughts, or Ramble On with Dylan. I hope Tyler does something fun with sound clips from this episode. Thanks for all the awesome content!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Lol love the the time codes, thanks!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

The Hybrid Mana discussion is purely hypothetical, and as far as we know, there are no sources that indicate the rule is changing. Just a thought experiment is all

[@yvorpulaschkov2575]

I think Deathrite would still only be playable in Golgari Decks, because of its activation costs being green/black. Whereas Vexing Shusher could be feasible since the activation cost is also hybrid.

[@CamToWin]

@@yvorpulaschkov2575 Ah yes, I probably should have pinned something about that too

[@Mr.GoldDucky666]

Im kind of surprised you didnt talk about Zirda and the partners

[@GamerdevilPro]

​@@Mr.GoldDucky666 oh yeah, that could be a big one!

[@Jordan-dg8tp]

The part I love is when you mentioned green is the lowest power in cEDH. I love the parallel in more casual circles, SO many people flood to green due to its mana ramping effects putting lands into play and MLD being seen as sacrilege. The difference being that cEDH is more fast mana, casual is more land-based.

[@aldencates9]

You guys should talk about your favorite sets/characters, or talk about your introductions into magic and how you started playing magic

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Great ideas!

[@DaxVerus]

favorite character is either Jace or Not Jace. Those are the two options

[@andrewpalella9923]

As a gitrog enthusiast I think a good topic would be previous kings of the format and what changed to knock them off the throne

[@slgsreds]

As for the Hybrid mana thing, pretty sure we’d see Shadow of Doubt in mono blue decks or Guttural Response in Green and or Red decks as another copy of REB/Pyroblast

[@Zelphiez]

100%

[@benjaminbarbaro6040]

"if you can turn your elvish spirit guides now also through manamorphose into red for underworld breach" what a big game changer that the grull deck can play gruul cards

[@Level_1_Frog]

I really appreciate the honesty of the sentiment that 'this is just us shooting the shit and having a chat for entertainment, this isn't meant to be an educational resource'. Very refreshing to hear, since that's exactly why I'm listening- for entertainment. I dunno what you guys should talk about next but if you just want to talk about sweet rogue decks you've liked, favorite commanders in each colour, best mono-coloured commanders, favorite characters from the lore, what you would ban/unban, whatever you guys find interesting and would have fun talking about for just under an hour would be a good time.

[@MufasaTheMan]

Please please PLEASE more content like this! I have these conversations with my pod and I love listening to these different perspectives. I could listen to this all day. Edit: maybe call these episodes "Talk/Chat to Win"?

[@dhammer5842]

Would Deathrite Shaman even qualify since it has both solid Green and solid Black in its identity?

[@danielschmidt7143]

It wouldn't because of it's text box, but they were talking about the mana cost. They were going quick so they may have just forgot about the text box.

[@narutomaster5271]

They just forgot about his text box. Planeswalkers dont normally have mana costs for their loyalty abilities

[@nickmoore7593]

@@narutomaster5271 deathrite shaman isnt a planewalker. just a creature

[@iansamuel1811]

@@nickmoore7593 who's gonna tell him?

[@d43m0n412]

yeah... so deathrite was the OG planeswalker... like the original idea for what they wanted planeswalkers to be... thats why deathrite is considered a planeswalker...

[@raulluna5845]

AHAHAHA Cam's reaction at 27:29 is just the reason I love listening to you guys. Great content!

[@Melissanoma]

On scryfall, it's under "criteria" on advanced, scroll down the list to "hybrid mana". The shortcut for searches is "is:splitmana"

[@dylansabin9828]

fwiw, Deathrite still wouldn't be legal if the hybrid rule was a thing, because it's got actual green and black pips in its rules text! enjoying the hell out of the podcast's grand return :>

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Good catch! Thanks so much!

[@JosueOnYT]

Everytime this conversation comes up, everyone forgets that DRS has color-costed activated abilities and it makes me chuckle every time.

[@lits2722]

That Tasigur brew sounds sick. I enjoyed this episode a lot!

[@skyguytomas9615]

My Tasigur deck isn't Cedh, but I have to say it's one of the more fun commanders to play. The instant speed politicking is 🤌

[@ogrebard]

I don't know why, but I find the meta discussions you guys have at the end of the episode(s) delightful. "This was good right, did we do good?" Y'all did good. :D

[@jareddease1082]

I love you guys' channel. Just very genuine and fun and you're also both very educated about the format and it shows. Thank you for positing and I hope to see more. :)

[@MirrowPR]

Hey guys, firstly; HUGE fan. Its in no small way because of you guys individually and your content that I've enjoyed diving deeply into the world of Cedh. Your success is no small part thanks to who you are and the quality of said content. Literally one of, if not, the only channel I'm subscribed, whose videos I look forward to and watch. In regards to your comments about what and why us viewers would watch or listen to your videos like this one, is to hear your brainstorming when it comes to all things Cedh, educational or not all the same, and feeling as a 3rd person in these conversations is very enjoyable. So more of these is super welcome and I'm sure I'm far from alone in this sentiment. PS. Small idea for future content could be, another brainstorming session while you go down a list of, possibly polled among yourselves and your viewers, Commanders that are underrepresented that have the potential for Cedh, albeit in specific or less common playgroups than the S-Tier popular decks.

[@drunklog1crecords144]

Also, with Rocco you can finish with walking ballista through the sabertooth bounce after dockside loops with state based actions and then bringing in back with eternal witness

[@mmastar25]

Loved this style video. Loved the free chat and genuine idea generation live was awesome

[@matthewbajkowski2210]

I haven’t played cEDH, but absolutely love the channel and this was the perfect episode. By the end, all I could think was how fun the birthing pod conversation was and how much I want to play that somehow in my casual pod.

[@Zelphiez]

Another great episode guys! Loving the podcasts since I always work Fridays they make for at least 1 hour where I can zone out and stick my shelves.

[@bowlofcrunchygranola]

The approach to this episode was awesome - love the non-instructional just hang out and chat vibes. I love it! This was so fun to j friday-hang-and-work to!

[@MrNajie]

Yall are my favorite magic channel! So happy you're doing the podcast again!

[@jeremiehoule548]

You're so right Cam, I didn't come here looking to learn stuff, I just wanted to ear what were your thoughts on the different subjects, thanks for the content, I always love it!!!

[@uselessnolagemtg]

The chemistry you 2 have is ridiculous and I crack the fuck up every time I watch you 2 just shoot the shit. Great vid.

[@gideondaniels8010]

I love this style of podcast. Very fun to listen to. Please, keep it up!

[@kstandish42]

I definitely loved the candor and the shooting the shit vibe of this episode and hearing you both spitball upcoming commander builds is the vibe I love when talking about brewing with my pod, do this again for sure!

[@DrunkonMedia]

An insightful podcast! I've been watching a lot of cedh lately and want to try my hand in it. Currently I wanted to test thr viability of Akiri Line Swinger to make a midrange aggro deck. The issue is the partner is split between Thrasios and Silas. It really comes down to whether I want Jeskai+green or +black

[@reahutargaryen1573]

I really like your discussion of the green color in Commander. Funnily, the guys from Command Zone say green is the strongest color and my friends do too. But that's the non-cEDH view on things, in cEDH its definitely not.

[@dang1347]

I just had a few cocktails and watched to chill. You guys are inspiring. I feel there was some plants that were involved. Lol

[@willmatson3103]

Vexing Shusher would be a great card to play.

[@MTG_Ronin]

Omg this episode! So good! I love how we ended on green 🤣. Great convo. For real. Might listen a second time!

[@johnathananderson5655]

Lurrus would be a huge addition to many decks

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

I absolutely thought this was there second card in their picks…

[@sceadumor]

Lurrus in my Derevi Stax deck would be amazing.

[@DaxVerus]

Pod to Cast is what I have been calling your discussions (but calling them podcast to Win sounds smoother) and I almost enjoy hearing you guys just banter and chat more than the Cedh games. Such great friend chemistry. Edit: Two hybrid cards that you did not say was Emiel the Blessed since you can now run it and dockside in sans green decks, and that is a very tutor-able card. And lurrus without orzohv is busted too. Also the reason green sucks (for me) is its best cards are hybrid cards (assassin trophy and abrupt decay for removal, deathrite shaman as grave hate and mana dork, neoform for combo tutor) so green requires another specific color to perform what other colors are able to do on their own albeit slightly worse but not worse enough to make you play a green commander. The other big part is green commanders just lack. Temur, Jank and Bant commanders options are in no way strong enough or able to perform the power requirement that is a turbo or control deck. Thrasios and kinnan are the best green options and their strength is their mana dump abilities. Green needs some better commanders that on their own push the color and the card pool will follow.

[@rafael3646]

bsolutely loved the new format, this should def be a recurring thing

[@cmgeorge1332]

I think emiel would be strong with dockside decks. Could be really strong in Winota allowing you to blink creatures that get targeted with removal

[@RelicSeeker]

If the hybrid mana rule was changed, I could see wild cantor seeing some play as a red blood pet, and Magda might run Duergar Assailant as another one drop dwarf with the barest hint of upside

[@tylermulkey8647]

I can’t wait to see the three color decks Tivit was my first three color and deck and I recently started playing him in cEDH can’t wait for the game to see how he does

[@Fogshaper]

Yo, first of all, if you go to the advanced scryfall search and then go to "criteria" you can do the criteria "hybrid mana". The thing with deathrite is that it even without hybrid mana rule, the card still has the black and the green mana symbol in its activated abilities so it's still only in Golgari+X.

[@samuelkyle9894]

In regards to hybrid mana. Emiel, The Blessed being opened to non green decks would have the largest impact. Emiel is already huge combo bait so opening it up to like 8 more color combinations would increase its play rate tremendously. Reduces Emiel/Dockside loops to just boros as an example.

[@samuelkyle9894]

It becomes a one card combo for Abdel Adrian. Emiel/Peregrine Drake down to Azorious. Emiel/village bell ringer to mono white. Emiel/workhorse/x down to mono white or W/X

[@joeyvirtue4884]

This was an awesome episode, please do more shows like this. I hope the podcast is now weekly.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

It is!

[@Benstra93]

Vexing shusher, my boy! Love this in my gruul cEDH deck :) Edit: love the episode, I exclusively build/play decks if they contain green. Both in casual and competitive commander decks. I just love how green plays, even if it is considered one of the worst colours (which I obviously try to disprove!). Also I think that in this way I make some decks people don’t expect, makes it really interesting when playing against people you haven’t played with before. More Edit: Tasigur rules, one of my first high power turned cEDH decks. Neoforming into Toxrill is a lot of fun too by the way.

[@JustinETharp]

More of this! This was a great pod!

[@JustinETharp]

Also: Play to Win presents: Pod Lines

[@nickmoore7593]

defiantly my favorite 2 people to watch over any other channel out there..

[@ichibancho]

I paused the video immediately to write this, so if you address to right after i hit play again oh well. But, scryfall is not time consuming to show hybrid mana. Under the "criteria" section of the advanced search just select hybrid mana and that's all there is to it.

[@dharcofuruk9105]

i play rosco alot competitvely, finale is a good win con but one of the better win cons you can do is its also a really good birthing pod deck as well. i know you talked about this, but its really good also doing birthing pod lines

[@ThomasFromNork]

something that is of note with the hybrid mana costs is the commanders from new capenna that have hybrid mana costs become essentially mono colored

[@tylercraig5633]

Hell yes to Rocco!! Hands down my favorite commander of 2022. I want to build this deck so badly

[@wyatt5450]

Imagine running Manamorphose in any deck with red or green and other colors. Underworld Breach, like was mentioned. Fixing to help cast Throacle lines, imagine playing it to fix for Dockside and a blink effect in blue, running it in Boros to help get an extra leg in with Winota(as mentioned), running it for a Neoform or a creature tutor, maybe even a counterspell. Anything is possible to grab two different colors with Manamorphose. It gets much better with Krark copies(mentioned in video), Izzet cost reduction like in Mizzix, Veyran, or even Vadrik. Completely blows everything out of the water.

[@wyatt5450]

If you run green with Manamorphose, you can grab a lot of tutors that go for other things. You're running this in enchantress styles with green like in Sythis, mana fix for protection, etc. Two color fixing goes a long way.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Good point on mana fixing for Thoracle, super helpful with those double mana symbol spells that can be harder to cast

[@wyatt5450]

I'd feel most comfortable playing Manamorphose in Golgari, Izzet, or Simic just for common cEdh lines regardless. I could see it ran in Boros or Selesnya decks to fix up colors but only up to really two mana. Anything 3 or more, it can't stand to fix because the cost is already too high. Some 3 mana assistance with those common lines are helpful though, like the aforementioned Throacle help because you only need two blue and one black to win. Also for underrated commanders, I feel partner as a whole is underrated only because I've seen or heard of partner decks used in higher power/cEdh tables. My buddy and I ran Krark-Sakashima decks until I changed mine to Kess and he's kept with his pure storm count list while he grinds value and takes 20min turns just running with card value. I'm making both Najeela and my own brew of Kydel and Tevesh as the sultai choice over Tasigur because not only can I get ways for both of them out and gain advantage but I can use one for the other and vice versa. Tevesh with card advantage and Kydel with mana. The only thing hurting me is Mana dorks in the list but I think I can manage.

[@tybarr5378]

Rocco - food chain and squee line is what I went with, mine is not CEDH of course but has worked well for me 6 mana, rocco for moon blessed, sac rocco and moon blessed for Rocco x2 to get squee

[@jamesmooney6472]

Rocco is my favorite deck, it has the white protection and it's a 1 1/2 card combo, rocco for 4 gets arena rector and any 2 damage spell is a win. Rocco combo kills with lightning bolt, fury, rending volley and the kitchen sink. Not to mention that the dockside/temur sabertooth line lets you cast Rocco over and over grab every creature in your deck

[@vladahermansky710]

Thx guys really enjoy everything said im so happy for Tasigur build really looking forward to it and also i wana see that minsc boo deck in ideal world even rocco then

[@Fogshaper]

I've recently been playing against Rocco a lot and I think you should be on Arena Rector. Tutor Rector, kill rector somehow, find Vivien, sac rocco to vivien, win with your "usual" pod line. It's really good.

[@liquidxan6698]

The hybrid mana rule talk was very cool

[@salchi-papa]

Regarding the Naya commander talks, one reason I built Marath cause I felt that Marath just provides some solid not generic lines and still operates as a win-con. Naya is so much fun. Edit: this podcast is my favorite ever.

[@onyxasmodeus7480]

Professional Facebreaker is also good in Rocco with temur and dockside. I've theory crafted this deck a lot

[@official_uhu]

Well I‘m happy to tell you I absolutely learned nothing 😂 but I had a ton of fun listening to you guys!

[@Pechko]

Talk about in addition to Hybrid mana- the idea of running any color (even colors outside of your commander's color identity) as long as you have the land to play them! What would be the strongest deck? The strongest commander if it can have access to any color?

[@danielgamboa6130]

Thought experiment: do you think partner legendaries Will be made? How do you think they'll balance it? What would be your broken dream partner commander to add to the pool? Discussing the meta: on the scale of aggro->tempo->midrange->control->stax->combo, what would you say the meta breaks down to? Do "1 card win con" decks warp the definition of these categories? Do you think there is space for less represented deck archetypes to come back? What is the weakest card type/can it be fixed? Stir the pot: ban a card conversations? Rules changes? Hot take about decks? What does an ouphe/dockside-less world mean for artifacts?

[@Pablocarderam]

"godo sucks" the universe really came back for ya with that one this weekend haha. this was a great chat!

[@03thinking]

Dryad militant is awesome, Samurai of the pale curtain is something too

[@toctheyounger]

I'd be interested to hear what you guys think about various fringe commanders, for fun or future viability.

[@andimayer1119]

About the hypothetic hybrid change and since you also brought up Deathrite Shaman: How would Commanders work? Would Jenson Carthalion, Druid Exile now be Selesnya; Jodah, Archmage Eternal be Jeskai and Kenrith, the Returned King a Mono-White Commander? Also would anything change with double sided cards like Esika, God of the Tree or Jadzi, Oracle of Arcavios?

[@bro2801]

So excuse my horrible grammar, eu dyslexian here. I do believe that commanders that are 4 colors is kinda cheap saying which is bad, when in most cases they are mostly a color pallet for you to put your favorite win cons that you run in every other deck. the reason i like certain commanders is because it's a good exercise in winning using your commander as an important "cog in the machine"

[@metalplaysgames]

Just for the future "is:splitmana" is the scryfall command for hybrid mana

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

OH! That's good to know haha thanks

[@tehfurbolg4960]

Is there a difference to "is:hybrid"? (Honest question, I didn't know splitmana)

[@metalplaysgames]

@@tehfurbolg4960 I have no idea, I just use what works lol

[@Ellie-bs5zq]

A quick check indicates that both have the exact same effect. Also, they don't include cards that only have hybrid mana in the text.

[@kylarcheng1346]

I think once you get dockside+sabertooth in Rocco, then you get to tutor all the creatures in your deck

[@xelendar]

I would like you to talk about fringe decks on CEDH, something like Jorn

[@Pechko]

Important to note that Rocco makes every creature in your deck your companion- but without forcing you to have the downside, or requirement that all of the other companions have. ie: "all cards in your deck must be xyz".

[@JohnSmith-hs9ez]

Btw the scryfall search you are looking for: is:hybrid. Also deathrite doesn't apply it has green and black symbols in the box. Also you didn't mention feind artisan in your hybrid section which I think makes a big change.

[@GremlinsKilledChristmas]

Also guttural response would be a good include for non blue decks.

[@mothbag]

A cool one liner would be potential bans, and not just the likely ones. Say tomorrow ad nauseam is banned, or tymna, even rhystic study.

[@healthylife1499]

I love the purple lights

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thanks 😊

[@jmanwild87]

Coming from Lower power commander where green is probably one of if not the best colors hearing that green is really bad was kinda funny and shocking until i realized with how explosive cedh is green's consistent if slower value doesn't matter nearly as much as in casual tables, where having a way to ramp that your opponents won't really interact with because of how disliked stax and landhate are and having big combat and mana payoffs are huge.

[@seankeane769]

Please do kess reanimater… I’ve been playing it recently and I love it… my main cedh deck is tymna/thrass and I’ve also been trying to figure out an instant speed win… I’m thinking about doing hermit Druid things but trying to get oracle out at instant speed is a pain… I’m happy to see that I’m not the only person thinking about these kinds of things so that’s nice lol

[@ralphcrisci8359]

Tasigur can play both energy tap and sacrifice, both those cards are sick.

[@ReyaadawnMTG]

Fiend Artisan giving a pod to black could be impactful.

[@patcharamitanee5645]

Hybrid Mana -> Zirda now can go in Tymna // Thrasios will be super cool

[@darktavar9674]

Love the content guys and gotta thank you Dylan for the tips in my deck that helped a lot to identify what was missing, is there like a way that I can request that you guys try my deck out? Say patreon or a dono? Wpuld be interested to see how the deck interacts vs other decks in the format. It's essentially a Tymna/Jeska removal deck with a ton of interaction pieces

[@egoish6762]

Hybrid ashiok might find places in mono blue or black to be fair. I play Kess and i'm rebuilding it to TK.

[@stormtrooperjeepjk]

I was looking at tasigur for food chain

[@deathcatwallow2775]

What do you think about Viridian Revel for green card draw? With dockside and underworld breach, could be good to draw answer, but is it too narrow?

[@Funder1Nk]

Hybrid mana card that would see a lot more play is vexing shusher

[@morganmchenry325]

unfortunately, DRS wouldnt be available with mono-black or mono-green, even if they had updated the hybrid rule, because of the activated abilities on it.

[@ezoleh8941]

@dylan - eldritch evolution into razaketh in tasigur..... mana dorks back in? or just life/death? :)

[@1ntegrator]

Take it to the next level, what about the Phyrexian Mana Symbols? Mental Misstep and Birthing Pod would be legal in every deck :-D

[@Highwang]

Y’all mentioned Tivit and man it’s a hella pubstomp deck when I use it normally, I can’t imagine how fast it can go with comp rocks. Definitely feels like a turbo deck or maybe a spellseeker line?

[@IAmGrimReefer]

Vexing shusher in Grixis would be fun

[@MomirViggwilv]

Crypt Ghast might see play in decks without white if the hybrid mana rule were changed

[@rhettnorman8451]

for the hybrid rule would emiel the blessed make a big impact? thats for mono white and green in the ability cost

[@coryfoster4907]

Shoutout from a fellow Kutztown Uni PA Alumni!! haha

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Whaaaa

[@enzofortunato4919]

DS got acrivated ability with black, so I think its color identity is still BG, right? Btw, where can i find about this rules change?

[@titak7755]

"Reds power is shallow" *Magda wants to know your location*

[@boxerbiker4672]

Uhhh...on scryfall, here's a 2-keyword search that shows all commander-legal hybrid cards: "is:hybrid f:commander" You're welcome. Also, like other people have pointed out, Deathrite shaman isn't legal in mono-green/mono-black because of the colored pips in the text box.

[@DCII]

When considering the hybrid mana rule you must think about future Magic development. Wizards has for a bit now been developing for commander and this one simple rules change would exponentially increase the complexity of developing while maintaining a balanced format.

[@Jugglerman]

Can you guys talk about Slicer as a CDH deck? I’ve seen some talk about it and it seems bonkers.

[@noahsnyder7835]

would deathrite be affected by the hypothetical rule change? the abilities are still pure green and pure black, so it’s color identity would still be golgari regardless?

[@seankeane769]

You could talk about how to build a cedh deck… I’m transitioning to cedh and I’m not sure how to pick what cards I would need… ppl talk about best card in slot but I have no idea what that means lol like how do u know what’s better?

[@aisbiskup]

judge's familiar would be sick in winota, right?

[@paraohh1406]

I thought of lurrus, to bring back your underworld breach to go off from there

[@Gasket64]

I'd like to see what Rocco list you guys cook up