Please Tell Him He's WRONG!

[@ElkShape]

HEY SQUAD! Thanks for watching, we are headed to TAC Big Sky, hope to meet some of you there! Have a great week! -Dan

[@Bowhunterohio]

Question. I’ve been shooting for years and my setup has been the same since the V3X was released. I put my bow in the case after hunting season and I finally pulled it out yesterday to shoot. Everything was blurry. It’s almost like I’m straining or having a hard time looking through my peep. I can’t focus anything and my vision is good. I don’t wear glasses or need glasses. I don’t know if I’m all of a sudden holding my bow wrong or if it’s caused by my draw length being off. I did recently but the Stan Onnex hinge so it’s a shorter release then I was using. Would you know what could cause this and what I should look for? It’s strange. I have the sport hog and I even moved my scope farther away to See if it would help which is did a little bit. Have you ever heard of this happening to someone?

[@dylandedman1353]

shoot both bows at tac hunting first day target bow second day I would like to see the difference in how you do

[@jackbuendgen389]

@@dylandedman1353 that's a great idea!

[@johncannady6105]

Please have Josh on more often! He is the only one I really listen to about tuning a bow.

[@demunbell]

Dan has great hunting/fitness/practical shooting experience in my opinion. Why else come to elkshape... @podiumarchery is a thing, ya kno🏹 -shooter

[@clintonmoore1070]

​@@demunbelli think he's talking about Josh is more knowledgeable than the guy that said you should shoot in your 2nd axis because arrows spin fast enough to cause spin drift, or the guy that said .166 arrows are lighter gpi than .204 arrows of the same spine.

[@demunbell]

@@clintonmoore1070 Roger that

[@clintonmoore1070]

@@demunbell that's just 2 things that made me rewind to make sure i heard them correctly

[@technicalbowhunting]

Broadhead tuning vs bare shaft tuning I agree with josh to an extent.. BUT I’ve seen at longer distances (40 yards plus), a fletched shaft with a broadhead veer to one side; the fletching over corrects the arrow; and your broadhead tipped shaft actually ends of on the other side of the target. It acts almost like a car fishtailing from side to side. If you were trying to tune based on those results you would be chasing your tail and pull in you hair out. A bare shaft will veer one direction and one direction only; the way it’s shot out of the bow. I don’t have to shoot my broadheads into foam repeatedly, dulling broadheads and tearing up targets; to get a tune. A good bare shaft tune usually gives you a good broadhead tune as well. To each their own but I really enjoy shooting bare shafts all year round; I’d shoot a couple bare shafts every session. It really tells me a lot about form inconsistencies in different situations. Shooting bare shafts at a target 30 yards away at shoulder height vs 30 yards at a target on the ground vs elevated a bit.. it shows me my form inconsistencies in different situations and helps me address them. Thanks for the informative and entertaining content Dan and Josh!

[@ricardoruiz6612]

great content! at 18:36 josh is talking about pushing both ends of the arrow to find the weak spot on the arrow. I have found this to be a great way to a starting point on arrow tuning . I have for years now been doing this. i have made my bow press to be able to do this simply cut your arrow then put the insert your going to be using in the arrow on both ends of the arrow without gluing them in of course. on my bow press i have used a punch to make indentions so the field points will go into so they do not slip off the press. then slowly press the bow press with the arrow in place. You will see the arrow flex out . mark that point. then release pressure and spin the arrow about a quarter then repeat it you will see that the arrow will bow out in a different position like instead of the arrow bowing up it will now bend to the right or left. i do this 4 times around the arrow to make sure my arrow is still bowing on my original mark it is time consuming but i like tinkering and finding new ways to get my arrows as close to tuned as possible. hope i dont sound too geeked out. Im a western hunter out in arizona and like practicing out to 120 with my iron will wide blade set up. it works for me and hopefully it will for you .Good luck and always i repeat always tinker.

[@dustinroberts3403]

Tune with broadheads for your hunting setup. I’ve drove myself crazy with bareshaft tuning and my broadheads been dead nuts at 60yds. I agree with mfjj

[@brycekearns207]

More more more of this kind of stuff please love the tuning talk!!!

[@RudyHassallPMP]

I used to nock tune my arrows like Josh mentioned. I would build my arrows with the stiff side up on the shaft. Glue my outserts so that the broadheads would align to the same. Then fletch the 3 vanes on with no cock vane. Then if I needed to nock tune, I would turn the nock 120* to obtain the best and most consistent flight out of the shaft. Worked for me, assisted me in having confidence in my equipment, and fewer excuses regarding my equipment. If the shot was off, it was more than likely me.

[@briansteele1378]

If I had to pick one person to tune my bow for the rest of my life, MFJJ hands down.

[@ghaugsness]

I do like listening to Josh's tech talks as I usually find they provide a different insight than others. Great content Dan.

[@jsienesi]

This information is a good advocate for a 4 fletch as your more often than not going to have it aline ok when nock tuning after you have fletched it within a workable area of your 4 vane configuration saving you from having to re fletch. Would love to see a list of order of process for the quickest way to tune your arrows for broardheads as there are many steps most of us do that are possibly irrelevant.

[@MossyOakFreak]

I completely concur with Josh on spine testing and bare shaft nock tuning. I have tested this maybe hundreds of times with every shaft and bow combination I think a human can stand. I can get your bare shafts, arrow #1-#12 to shoot perfect bullet holes in paper with nock tuning. The second you put vanes on the back. Completely different non consecutive tears with the same arrows. Anyone telling you otherwise it's a parrot.

[@perryknetter8577]

Always great to see Jose on He is smart but always willing to help

[@maplehappy]

i love the tuning discussion. doesnt matter who it is or what type of archery they do, hunting or target or both, they will all tell you something slightly different. do what gets results for you!

[@johnlillywhite823]

I would love an arrow building 101 from josh!

[@Silbar89]

The thing about having a bare shaft to tune with is that you can use it to check your tune if you're worried about it at a range that doesn't allow broadheads, which as far as I've seen is basically all of them. I've also noticed that with the electrical tape on the back of the shaft I actually watched my shaft correct for flight like it has fletchings on it at 20 and 30yds. I have to play with that some more.

[@NickyZee]

Great video, I love when MFJJ get into the weeds on stuff. I appreciate every seconds of it. Thanks Gentlemen! 🏹

[@sheyanderson4371]

Always appreciate the different ideas and methods that come from this channel. Most channels promote what works for them and that's that, which is fine, but I am definitely a tinker type and trying new things. Keep up the great work, much appreciated.

[@ElkShape]

Great point! Test and tinker to find what works best for you!

[@brianlattimer9903]

You guys are awesome!!! I’ve learned so much from Elkshape. Smoked my first Bull last year in NM. This season I will be in CO for 15 days. Can’t wait. I’m always looking to learn and get better!!! Thanks for all you do!!!!

[@Snorkl7879]

My Vertix is torque tuned with the rest and sight pretty far apart. Hamskey Trinity and Black Gold on a slider. I introduced a dangerous amount of torque left and right, and the stacked on the neutral arrow at 30y

[@josephbucci484]

There’s another guy on yt who made a flex tester using a length of pipe and a could of pipe clamps. He dimples each clamp to receive a field point and tightens the clamp until the arrow flexes. Hardest part I see is getting the dimples perfectly aligned but a suppose a drill press and a block would work. Pretty clever, and works.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

The clamp/compression testing works great.

[@dannybrandonTX80]

So, @MFJJ, weak side up is the ticket? Can you make a video, please?!?! Dan, love all the collaboration between different methods and ideas. There’s the generalization of how to do things the right way and then there’s the varying many of different specific paths on how to get there. Love seeing it and trying to determine what path I’ll take. Thanks!

[@royhoglund1322]

I remember having lunch with Joel at Elk Shape Camp when he talked about the new release. I ordered one from Josh as soon as it was available and I am looking forward using it. Great video guys, I like hearing different views on doing things! ABT!

[@poolhalljunkie55]

I love the idea about the nock tunning I actually use zingers to nock tune then fletch with my hunting vanes just makes it a little easier and so far the fletching are too close to tell any difference

[@bbmas1930]

I remember Paige Pearce and Gillingham saying the same thing - as soon as fletchings go onto a spine aligned/nock tuned shaft, the arrow will shoot completely differently again, making the previous work a moot point. Paige Pearce was saying she does bare shaft but that step is to tune the bow, not the arrow. Yeah they check spine, runout etc to get all their arrows into a tolerance bracket but then they just fletch and nock tune those through paper.

[@christopheracosta9823]

1:50 into the video that Shot at 120 💰😶‍🌫️💰

[@JamesBond-oc4gm]

"Cause i know im right" Gotta love it lol

[@bryanheimann5370]

I can’t help but to wonder, how much does the straightness of the arrow impact the nock tune. Say you have one marginally crooked shaft. Like “.006” out of a batch of perfectly straight ones. And the strong or weak spot don’t necessarily correspond with which way it is bent. Might that flex in line with the curve of the arrow instead of curving according to the weak spine? Not even a pretend pro here it’s just been in my thoughts over the past couple of years.

[@relleknoj]

Thank you.

[@lindesylittlechief9056]

Went on my first 3d shoot last weekend in Saskatchewan Canada and was a question that popped up during the adventure

[@phatkawsadventures7975]

WOW!!! Awesome video! Great information about arrows and spine deflection. I learned sumthin big today!

[@CryptoHuntinDad]

Thank God for Josh

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I'm certainly not smarter I just learned a few things again like always esp. with Josh talking tech. Thanks again guys

[@jimr7154]

Love the video guys As always thank you for the tips Can’t wait to see Josh’s bow builds finished

[@ВладимирПрименко-о5б]

To set up a bow well for shooting broadheads, you need at least 20m and preferably 30m smooth flight of the bareshaft.Paige Pierce shoots a bareshaft from 60 yards and the setup can take a week.There is one person who can from 66 yards.I shot once with a 40m bareshaft, but this is most likely an accident, and so 30m confidently.

[@YoutubeMastersDegree]

If you have the time it is not stupid to nock tune bareshafts to get them flying the same at a base level before also nock tuning after fletching the arrows. The same for paper tuning a new bow to get to the very basic base level is a good starting point and is not stupid.

[@lindesylittlechief9056]

Just a question if your bow gets to a point of bang on bullseyes set to death mode in the bush why change I like abt but isn’t just proving you can dial in any bow from just tinkering not being negative just asking you guys are wicked shots tons of knowledge and great to watch

[@demunbell]

Weakspot up🤯🤯!! MFJJ😮 LAYED DOWN knowledge I didn't even know that I needed to know!! I am a greenhorn novice arrow builer. I feel like I just got enlightened 💡

[@justinjhauser5110]

Exodus marks the weak spot on their custom built arrows. They do that after the arrow has been cut to length then they fletch accordingly.

[@adamhalcom1608]

Josh I wish you would have made the comment about the weak spot about 2 weeks ago lol. Great knowledge

[@brandondavidson7663]

Fully agree about the weak side of shaft, but why do think it’s too much work to nock tune after the arrows are fletched, I am going to put in the reps anyways and practice with improving everything I can, with four fletch I rarely have to refletch an arrow but it does happen but I find that spine that arrow is off just as often.

[@michaelcolthart4006]

Your LCA bow press will do what you’re talking about as far as testing arrow spine.

[@beekeeper8474]

I really need to update my bow. To broke for a good trigger but I got a new sight.

[@tonyviers-de9qi]

Help me understand 3rd axis. If you are still in the same “ vertical “ plane why would you hit left or right

[@bigz5262]

I really appreciate MFJJ’s experience and knowledge so I’m saying this with all due respect but a person shooting mechanicals definitely needs to broadhead tune their bow. Chris B is an award winning archer and he had a video showing the effects that various mechanicals can have on your impact

[@micahdunleavy9227]

I’ve only been shooting a bow a cpl years and a lot of this just goes over my head..

[@davidval67]

What bino harness is that? Love it!!!

[@fabriziolamanna]

How much letoff do you have that setup configured for? Great content. Strongly support your channel and site.

[@GiftedOutdoors]

Taking a break from your podcast to watch one of your videos. Thanks for uploading, love ya Dan! 🤍

[@Njjb122]

I always thought the point of spine aligned wasn't so much about the stiff being up or down it was more about them all being the same way. When your talking about nock tuning a fletched arrow im guessing your talking about shooting it through paper. Fletchings correct arrow flight so much where if you get a bareshaft bullethole at say 10yds don't all of your fletched arrows give you a bullet hole anyway?

[@valhallabound111]

@ElkShape would you recommend the Carter 1st choice or wise choice? I’ve been shooting the Carter just cuz + thank you

[@juanrodriguez-mu7ko]

Love you guys the best thanks 🙏🏽

[@JedlyMT]

Pipe clamp. Cheap and press tune your arrows. TAKE YOUR NOCK OUT AND PUT IN INSERT WITH FIELD TIP!

[@zacharymitchell7774]

So explain. If you’re nock tuning with fletching. Am I nock tuning through paper still? Just with fletched arrows?

[@nicolaalberti7736]

Yes

[@robertsmette2416]

Hey Dan, I’m running a couple different arrow weights this fall since I will be hunting elk in Sept in the Bozeman area and then whitetail back home in ND. My elk arrows are ~450gr and whitetail are ~530. 29in draw @80 lbs. Anyways, I am planning on changing out the sight tape on my 2 pin spot hogg which is sort of a hassle since the seasons run at the same time. My question is, Would you just have two different sights you used depending on what arrow you’re using instead of changing the sight tapes?

[@interestedmeow]

Torque tuning as I was taught it was: put your sight where you want it, tune your rest out to fit it. If your sight is way out there, your rest will also be farther from the riser. Similarly, if you have the sight in close, that rest will be far closer.

[@jasoncrandall4743]

Watch and listen again

[@tylerhilliker4184]

Torque tuning? So tuning out your improper form? Lol

[@GhillieFrog]

Hey Dan!! YES PLEASE do a video on how to properly measure all the data needed for archers advantage. I don’t find the info on the program very helpful. They don’t go into detail of where you measure from. Middle of peep to pin? Front of grip to housing? Don’t use a chrono, use calipers for 20 and 80? You get my points. Thanks buddy!!

[@bobbychatterton2225]

Love the channel fellas!! Does Dan stand on a milk crate when he’s in the same frame as mfjj?

[@wyatthill92]

You teased the new release and I've watched the review by MFJJ but have to ask you; do you think the click is loud enough to get the attention of an elk? Especially on those close encounters?

[@ralphthompson4041]

How much of a weight loss from the fast Eddie and do you like the Axcel better?

[@CarolinaNocked]

Anyone know what targets Dan is using ? Black octagon with the yellow diamond inside

[@michaelliggins870]

365 Archery

[@dylandedman1353]

shoot both bows at tac hunting first day target bow second day I would like to see the difference in how you do

[@vm859]

Bare shaft dont lie. Fletched shaft bullet hole through paper then bareshaft to 30-40 yards then broad head. Mostly have to tune for long range flight and very little at that.

[@scottcoon905]

Just learned a ton. Was going to nock tune but not anymore.

[@jackbuendgen389]

Here's my experience. When I bare shaft tune my bow I don't have to broadhead tune.

[@nicolaalberti7736]

Same

[@brysonhollar]

What target are you shooting at?

[@xcmandan]

Ohhhhh you just Blew up my mind with a NUKE, in the last 4 minutes of the video!!!!!!!!! I have notice the same things when tuning my arrows. Yes, I re-fletch. But being told why has really blown me away! I shoot Victory rip xv V1. Most cock vane not on the spine align. I would go theough the whole bare shaft nock tune then fletch and re-nock tune and re fletch........uuuuuggggghhhhh

[@jimhuffman2629]

Well I will be going home and refletching all of my arrows smh I literally have the stiff part of the spine facing up sh---!!!!!!

[@RyanEstrem]

Hi Dan. Good video I like it and have always like your stuff and will continue to watch your stuff and MFJJ’s stuff. I see what I wrote made your video lol. I had a good laugh when I seen that. I probably and should’ve worded it better or not even wrote it. I like how you and MFJJ joke around and just how you guys do the videos together. You are a good shooter and a hell of a hunter! Keep doing what you’re doing!

[@ElkShape]

No worries 😉 thanks for making an appearance on the video. 🤘🏼🤘🏼

[@RushOutdoors]

MFJJ 100% Correct!!! Broadhead tuning!!!!

[@rkrl1088]

What pack is that in the video?

[@justinjohnson3547]

Question I have a vx3 33” I put the 75lbs mods on twisted cables evenly until I pulled 75 lbs the timing is equal but the cables don’t go through the timing holes is this normal?

[@Snorkl7879]

It’s because the string is now too long. Do you have a draw board? In my experience Mathews Switchweight bows will tune up with the cables going dead center through the timing holes when the bow is at ATA length and spec brace height, but draw length is universally a 1/2” long.

[@michaelcolthart4006]

You have to adjust cables and string all together to get everything perfect.

[@justinjohnson3547]

I have a home made draw board the timing is correct and my brace hight is correct at 6.5” so I just need to add some twist in my string until my cables are in the middle of the timing holes?

[@justinjohnson3547]

Thanks just needed to put some twist in the string and that did it

[@Snorkl7879]

@@justinjohnson3547 no problem, just make sure you’re at your desired draw length, spec ATA, and have the right holding weight now. If ATA, brace, draw weight, timing, and holding weight are all appropriate for your mods, expect draw length to be 1/2” longer than the mods indicate, which I think is consistent across all Switchweight bows.

[@bamabowhunter8499]

Where has Jake been?

[@colingregory7464]

Assuming they have even one or two v short shots ! Did you get v close marks, always annoys me way more to miss a three yard/can't miss shot than an 80

[@sjmonty19]

I think for the majority of people reps that's all more reps

[@stevepauley2437]

Why would you want a click, on your realease, if the goal is to have the shot be a surprise?

[@joshuapreston4493]

That electric tape isn't vertical or plumb, so your 3rd axis should technically be money right?

[@keithcheever8186]

Great video what I been doing is putting field points in both sides of shaft an squeeze it in my bow press side that pops straight up is where my cock vane goes and dam it shoots great saw a guy do it this way

[@markst.martinii9635]

Dan so what was the answer about the RIP TKO spine alignment mark? Does Josh think it matters if your cock feather is lined up with it or not?

[@austinmiller1540]

The hunting public did a bunch of podcasts on arrow tuning. Super smart military guy on there

[@mikeguy9668]

Josh is the smartest archer alive......just ask him and he'll tell you

[@DeltaMikeNoshoot]

What does MFJJ think about shooting below 5 grains per lb of draw weight? I use the same arrows at 325gns but have been told 65 lbs max.

[@JohnOrmondShooting]

Is Josh still working out or did that one day smoke him?🤣

[@GrassFramer]

Wow the bow is 75lbs I knew you were strong!!!! I know what you meant 75lbs draw weight! Just chuckled was all

[@justindunn3496]

75 lb and a 341 gn arrow????

[@_DeFiNiTeLy_Not_BrAd_]

I wonder if he misspoke and meant 441gn

[@nickfisher9736]

@@_DeFiNiTeLy_Not_BrAd_ Nope that is accurate, yes it's under 5gpi (limb test!). But it shoots bullets!

[@mjc_208]

If I remember right, you can refer to a video from last week (I think) where he was setting up a super light arrow for TAC.

[@justindunn3496]

@@nickfisher9736 that’s literally against any bow manufacturer’s warranty. That’s pretty stupid to post this on KZbin. I’m surprised Mathews hasn’t dropped him for clearly going against their warranty requirements.

[@malcolmjohnson5941]

The 5 grains per pound probably is more applicable to the IBO standard of 30” draw. With his shorter draw he’s probably producing energy numbers of less than a 70lb bow at IBO 30” draw. Which means he shouldn’t have a problem with the lighter arrows.

[@obionewheelkenobi689]

Would not shoot arrows that bend bro makes zero sense with today's technology.

[@_DeFiNiTeLy_Not_BrAd_]

All arrows bend my man, no matter how stiff you go.

[@obionewheelkenobi689]

@DeFiNiTeLyNotBrAd lol try bending an easton 4mm long range pro vs a pro comp d bag.

[@lindesylittlechief9056]

Went on my first 3d shoot last weekend in Saskatchewan Canada and was a question that popped up during the adventure