Plowing snow, talking transmissions.

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[@redmanaaron97]

Hydro will keep you warm and mitigate damage to the plow, but personally I prefer the gear transmission for heavy pulling and pushing. However, I've been operating for years and can even plow snow in 2WD with a heavy enough tractor. Messick's is a good company with good customer service, I have a rare tractor and they're the only ones I know of that can get me [the correct] OEM parts for it

[@KMMEDIA1]

I am using b-series with HST-CAB. Today I gave it first time to my wife, so she can manage the snow when I am not at home. She really liked it and she said on the end that "it's easy and relaxing". I tried later on with 10 years old son also today - with me watching him of course all the time. Guess what, absolutely no problem at all. For spring I will buy middle mount mower for use. No way we could have all three of us using the machine without HST. Not to mention the confort when using front loader. Do not take manual into consideration AT ALL - my advice.

[@wolfpack4128]

I love your videos. I've seen a lot of people that get upset by inconsequential variables in testing. My first job with Cummins as an engineer was a performance engineer. When folks would claim they could feel they weren't getting 2050 ft-lbs from their engine I'd often get involved. In your test I recall you measuring linear force on a load cell. The only way to get a perfect number is get turf tires and pull against an immovable object until you hit stall speed. Even then because you are measuring linear force a comparison is not easy as the hydro has no direct gear ratio you could compare apples to apples. This is because linear force is torque provided (at the drive shaft in this case) times distance. Assuming the tires have the same diameter then the distance is constant. Problem is the torque at the drive shaft could be increased greatly with the gear drive thanks to the larger number of options compared to only the range selection on the HST. But the tractors have the same engine and tires so we can test the linear force and it'll be apples to apples right? The answer is probably not but maybe. Let's say you put both on dirt. The gear drive breaks away at 1000 lbf. You put the hydro on the same in first gear and it can't break the tires loose and bogs down only making 910 lbs. Your can say the gear drive has access to more torque at the wheels. If the HST breaks free at 1000 lbf you need to find a surface with a higher coefficient of friction. At some point you'll find where the gear drive can break free and the HST can't. This is real world because both tractors max force in first gear were compared. Let's say you want to see the difference between how much energy is lost across a gear box and an HST to show the sacrifice. You'd need to get a rolling dyno. You could then see the torque and power at the wheels for both in all gears. If you made it this far sorry for the long response. I love your videos and I know you're not the type of guy that would want to create one's that might not test what you thought you were testing.

[@farmertyler8087]

“I can change directions pretty easily” he says as he grinds a gear

[@mesanders1113]

The gear drive L series almost always grind when going fwd to rev or vice versa

[@cleonmain1291]

Plowing snow depending on the site conditions can often be about many direction changes. Thats where a HST is a better choice. As well as on a loader tractor where frequent direction changes are common. The gear drive is a better choice for discing and plowing set your speed and go applications. I have both types and this is how I use them.

[@paulnorman8274]

At larger sites, in addition to cleaning out tight nooks, you often also need to move the resulting snow pretty far. Hydros lose efficiency as speeds go up (even "powerful" ones barely getting their own weight up a grade at any sort of speed). Exactly what you do not want, when you want to keep momentum up with a big box full of snow during a big push. Hydros, or skid steers, moving the snow into the open; combined with a big, geared tractor (or even bigger loader) combining the smaller piles and moving them in a straight line to the back for storage, can be a good combo. Using the smaller hydros or skids to move a million small boxloads all the way down, you end up losing half of it on the way, so you have to go back and do second or third passes. The smaller, slower-with-a-load hydros also lacking the momentum to keep the end pile tall instead of creeping forward as you add snow. So the big brute, which can very successfully be a geared tractor, also serves a role in snow removal.

[@Salt999]

Awesome video 💪🏻 and gear drive tractors still have a purpose but for snowplowing hydrostatic all day long

[@jasonhopson7280]

Thank you for all the great info ! Absolutely loving my L2501/LA525 !

[@michaelbates3278]

Never mind the transmission Neil, get in a tractor with a nice warm cab! 😂.. Great videos though, keep up the good work, from Mike in the UK.

[@cperine39]

Merry Christmas to you and your family! Wish your company was in the Pacific Northwest.

[@roweinnovation]

Ihmt trans is pretty nice. Plowed this years snow with on so far. Really liked it dont see any lose of time compared to hst.

[@SnowPlowNews]

Thanks! Good info, good audio and good shooting quality makes it easy to watch your video.

[@kubotaoz6108]

I’ve had both. I prefer the hydro for everything. Kubota tractors are the most well built and positively greatest to own. If you don’t care about time, you can have a blast running a gear shift plowing snow from your driveway.In a hurry to get something done like building a driveway and moving 3000 yards of stone in 2 days, I’d pick the hydro. Clutches and stick shifts are becoming the things of yesterday. You can no longer get a stick shift in a pickup truck from the big three and what I’m reading Toyota is going to put the clutch and stick shift to rest.So there you have it, that’s how I feel. Oh and talking about feel, I pity that poor tractor that Neil was driving. He should do a deep discount on that one fast, no just kidding. Everyone have a Happy New Year, and Neil thanks for doing what you do. We all appreciate your effort , even the occasional crunch, crunch, Ha Ha😀

[@danielsharon524]

I've plowed snow w/a manual transmission pickup (tbh I've never done it w/an automatic) and I liked it. I'll be up soon to test drive a B2401 & B2601 (or B2301). I've never owned a tractor (your salesman has been EXTREMELY helpful) and doesn't think a B2401 is right for me but I think I'll really like it. It looks like a LOT of fun (he said the fun factor WILL wear off:)). I love the control of my manual transmission truck & enjoy driving it & shifting gears.

[@donaldstrishock3923]

Yea man ,don't fall fer one of them there "howling-hydro-slip-o-matic" home-loaner,lumeum, light weight rigs.

[@HuserHelpers]

Fun video Neil. I think an Ugly Christmas Sweater would have been a fun touch. I hear you on finding the tractor that is easy to get around is top priority. I have both an old G1800-S and a BX. For plowing snow, I love the old G. The 4 wheel steering allows you to cut around in tight areas. I hope to be posting a video soon on this. Keep Warm - Jason

[@jbcowherder6210]

we own two Kubota's, a MX4800 w/hydrostat and a L2501 w/manual trans. both have specific duties, the MX is the loader/dirt mover/forklift/backhoe where a hydrostat shines- the ability to inch forward easily or crowd a pile of dirt or gravel without slipping a clutch. the L2501 is a good disk puller/mower where a constant speed and low power loss is needed and it powers our wood chipper where running in one spot for hours on end would put alot of unnecessary wear on a hydrostat. the MX could and sometimes does do everything, but there are times when we have both going on a project and both have their strong points.

[@m1lkman1974]

Great video. Cleared up many questions of mine. Thanks Neil!

[@m.cooper1854]

I purchased an L6060 with HST, (which I think is the largest HST machine) and if I never see a clutch pedal again on a tractor, I will be happy. Snow or grapple or loader use is a lot of back and forth. This is my first cab tractor with heat and a/c and why I waited this long remains a mystery to me.

[@JackOSUrulz]

I got the 4760, same deal....,grew up learning on a Farmall Cub, then dad got an L3010 when he retired and I inherited that (gear driven). Just bought the 4760 3 months ago...,,now I’m spoiled...still have the L3010 because it’s a fun little tractor. Plus it has only 360 hours in 20 years....

[@dansevern3291]

Been out in the pastures just now. Currently, it's 75 degrees, might get down to 60 tonight. If I was clearing snow on a tractor, I'd need therapy, and a cab. With a heater.

[@BiffsEquipment]

Great video Neil. Your absolutely right. It’s all about getting the power to the ground. Sure you have more pulling power with a manual trans but can you actually get all that power to the ground is the question.. in snow removal you most Definitely won’t haha. I plow with a full manual shift New Holland TN70DA at work with NO shuttle shift:. Let me tell you by the 8th or 9th hour my leg is NUMB from pushing that clutch in and out all day going into massive piles haha. Great video as always! 👍🏻

[@johnjaco5544]

I'm glad I have a gear drive Tractor.

[@steveholton4130]

I like the Hydrostatic with the Toe - Heel rocker pedal of my TC33DA the best of anything I've run Snow Plowing. That being said, it is the Worst for moldboard plowing. sdh in CT

[@stephengmeiner3264]

Another great video Neil. Can you squeak in a video about tire tread and traction on snow? I’ve heard that turf tires outperform other treads on snow. I have turf tires on my L 3301 and have never really had a problem with traction in the snow but wonder how they compare to other tread types.

[@MessicksEquip]

I did last year on a bx

[@bladerunner1458]

I like my hydrostatic trans for my tree farm and snow. Thanks for the demo

[@PurpleCollarLife]

Great explanation, Neil. Appreciate your insight.

[@halsnyder296]

Ok you win Neil... you can have the snow, I’ll keep my rocks

[@northeasterndirtandpropert7974]

Counterweight on the back,even without chains makes a huge difference.Add chains,your pushing hard,even with 2 wd.

[@brianpritt4154]

That was a nice and fluffy snow to push. We had a bit more North of you.

[@thebradleysoncatbirdhill6849]

Great teaching, Neill!👏

[@richardl.993]

I prefer a shuttle probably because I am use to it but also very important is position of shuttle lever and loader control. Shuttle on left of steering wheel and loader control on inside fender right side I find both levers on the one you were operating were in a strange position. Hydrostatic transmission has a whine I can do without. My neighbor has one, drives me nuts!

[@timberray9572]

I have the MX5100 with manual transmission, with a ballast of 1500lbs on the back my little tractor will push snow for miles with the standard 6ft bucket.

[@PurpleCollarLife]

Looks like those bigger R4 tires do pretty good in the snow.

[@emftestblock]

Thanx for touching on manual transmissions again! In watching ttwt, (or other good channels) it seems he looses traction less often than he does transmission power. So your past post showing how manuals have more pushing power is really interesting to me. Owning an old land rover, the work of a manual just adds to the fun. (: Really appreciate your video, and feedback. Watching the video again, I also dont hear the hst whine, like I do in your other videos.

[@donaldstrishock3923]

The absense of the hydro-slack-o-matic whine is a gear drive's 2nd biggest feature. The gear drive tractors biggest is it's ability to be mantained and run for 289% less than a constantly high reving filter and hydraulic guzzling machine. Hydrostatic drive (all brands) need 2 high price filters, fluids TWICE as often and guzzle 30% more fuel all the time. I have 2 gear drives and one hydro, also I work on only other hydros all the time,(they are my best money makers). Grinding gears can be aleaveated with better chutch jockying, like pushing the pedal all the way in. Hydro-slack-o-matics are dealers best money makers comming and going. Most people don't realize their precious one & only hydro-slack-o-matic costs them 50 to 100 $ an hour to own & operate. I shure would like to see more than one out of a hundred payed for.

[@michaelparker9886]

I see your point for hydro trans but I grew up driving a 1720 ford and went I went shopping I got a 2610 koiti tractor bc I mow 4 plus acres a week of grass yes clearing snow is harder with gear drive but I don't have a tight parking lot I also look at repair cost down the road clutches are cheap hydro trans parts arnt I wana keep my tractor for 30 years so I stick with the most durable and fits my needs

[@davelarman2151]

Love this video. In theory a gear tractor will provide better traction? All I need is Drive a car with a standard vs an automatic transmission. Weight matters a lot as well as traction. The man could talk the panties off a nun. Lol 😂. Just Kidding. Love You Man.

[@BG-vq9fd]

I was used to pushing snow with a 54 inch blade on the front of a little 4x4 gas garden tractor. The first time I plowed with my compact tractor, I experienced the front tire lift (float or not).

[@brianwestveer9532]

Actually having a plow on the front that angles would be better than a bucket, could you some time do a comparison with an case hi.

[@tomkeating65]

Guess you could do all that with a walk 🚶‍♂️ behind snowblower? 😅🤣😂

[@stefanoferri1485]

I have an older l3010 hst and its main purpose is to plow snow does it with no issues. Neil u are right i tend to be slipping more often way before i have no power. The r4 tires are not much of a help.

[@fhuber7507]

Physics says you can't apply more power than the point where you start spinning the tires. Both will spin the tires under most conditions. We want it to be able to spin the tires as the "first thing that breaks" in the drive line, causing lack of pull, because churning mud or snow is cheap. Breaking parts is not.

[@paulnorman8274]

"Both will spin the tires under most conditions." Not necessarily at the end of a pig push, where you are trying to build up maximum momentum to get the snow up and over an existing pile. Or to keep moving as more and more snow fills up a big box. For bigger sites, neither of those are irrelevant.

[@racenail9086]

I have what I think is the same tractor as you are using here a MX4800 with the same transmission. I live in Southern Ontario Canada so I do get to move snow with it. The L3350 Shuttle shift I traded on the MX 4800 was a far better tractor for loader work or snow blower work than the 4800 because there was no need to use the clutch to change directions. I can do more jobs on the farm easier with the MX 4800 but pound for pound the L3350 was a Much better built tractor. I realize the MX is a discount line but there is a point where things are cheapened too much.

[@waynehigden]

Watching your right hand adjusting the bucket to the float position you go back to the neutral position while moving. Why not keep the lever in the float position while moving?

[@KubotaBXathome]

Love these always!

[@mattsbrute]

I thought they stopped making gear driven tractors. I haven't seen one in i dont know how long. Harry homeowner and loader work...Hydro pedal. Snow plowing on the highway or long fields shuttle shift IMO.

[@dennisgt479]

Do these newer hydrostatic transmissions last a long time? Generally the old gear drives lasted the life of the tractor, minus a clutch change as required.

[@MessicksEquip]

A modern one will outlast a gear, mostly because of the lack of clutch wear.

[@dereksmith1803]

Ah man. Saw it was going to be a snow video and was hoping it was going to be the mini loader video you said you would do. Next time maybe?

[@MessicksEquip]

needs to snow again

[@counterfit5]

@@MessicksEquip so some time in the spring, then

[@davekana8388]

Everything I have is clutch operated, no problem here!

[@Jasonrcsd]

hey I've got that same hat! Except you look much cooler with it....must be the tractor :)

[@Monkey_Snot]

I hate HST, it robs valuable hydralic power trying to push into a pile of whatever, while lifting heavy weights. A manual trans doesn't do that. You basically have to push into the pile, stop, lift, then move. Such a pain.

[@tractordoctor7505]

The grille guard look open on the thumbnail

[@treblefarmer1613]

it seems to me that it is more what the operator likes better for trasmission

[@kevchard5214]

I grew up in a green tractor mechanic shop and I will never own a hydro trans. When they break (which they will more often) it is extremely expensive. A gear shift tractor is cheeper to replace a clutch compared to a clutch pack on a hydro. Yes gear drive is slower but if you are in a hurry or can't drive a standard trans buy a hydro and pay the price for you lack of driving ability.

[@joesteen9742]

That why when with hirdro tractor for my yard. Easy to move around tight spots. Great video Neal

[@jimmcknight3021]

Just curious why you were using a bucket rather than at least a snow pusher? I figured with all the attachments you have sitting around your lot you would be easy just to switch the bucket out for at least a snow pusher?

[@MessicksEquip]

Just 5 minutes to shoot a video, we have other equipment that we actually use to clear the parking lots.

[@jimmcknight3021]

@@MessicksEquip I figured it was something like that. Understandable when you have a lot of snow to move. That's why I like living in the South after growin up in the upper Mid-west. LOL I do enjoy seeing how they work the snow though and just glad it is not my problem. LOL

[@patdaugherty7978]

Where can I get some of that white stuff at? Can't seem to find any to play in around Indy. The MX and I are bored.

[@mikec8123]

Great video. I have a question that I can't get the same answer from different people. I have the BX2380 it grinds sometime when shifting from hi to low or low to hi and won't shift. I am stopped but possibly moving and I don't realize it. I thought when I bought it i could shift on the fly if going slow and not working the tractor hard.

[@MessicksEquip]

No, you cannot shift on the fly.

[@Snowplow364]

We have a MX6000 right now. In Vermont snowstorms can be frequent and heavy. The 6000 is an okay tractor however fuel consumption is a lot and we've been having issues with our dealer and tractor. We are thinking of upgrading to a M4D071. Any thoughts on how the M4D071 holds with fuel consumption and any complaints. We would use it for commercial snowplowing and pvt roads as well as in the summer grading driveways and pvt roads and mowing meadows. Any feedback would great thanks!

[@MessicksEquip]

It's a similar fuel system, so I would expect the same consumption. It has a bigger tank, so it might not feel like as much. MX should be burning around two and a half gallons an hour. The m4-071 is a very different tractor, Make sure you drive it first.

[@Snowplow364]

@@MessicksEquip Thanks for the response. We wished you guys were closer. Love your videos and showing that you guys have pride in your work. We looked at a M4D071 M6060 and a M7060 today.

[@larryhaynes4611]

Let's see different snow plows on these tractors not just using the bucket.

[@chrismartin8208]

Hey man thanks for your videos you do an awesome job. I was wondering what tractor is that your using in this video ?

[@MessicksEquip]

L4701 gear drive

[@dalestan1565]

What is your opinion on a DPF tractor?

[@MessicksEquip]

pretty much a non-issue at this point. Its been around long enough at this point that most problems are operator induced in some way. Either ignoring what the tractor is asking for, or running dirty fuel. As long as you keep after the machine there are few issues. Once you cross 75Hp and have to deal with DEF fluid there are more complications.

[@364pgr]

Have you done any videos on glow plugs Neil. Can you please explain different types for different makes of tractors. For example my New Holland 25S has a Preheat Times chart. How to make glow plugs last for a long time, abuse prevention. Thanks.

[@MessicksEquip]

I've talked about it in past videos. There are some cold start ones if you go back a ways.

[@364pgr]

@@MessicksEquip thank you

[@bobpurs]

Give me a gear drive over hydro any day.

[@emftestblock]

Hey bob. What kind of tractor do you have? I am interested in the b2401

[@bobpurs]

@@emftestblock have a JD 790 and JD 4010. Thinking of upgrading 790 to a MX 5400 or M6060,7060.

[@bradjenkins932]

Hydro' eat's power and costs a lot more to fix.

[@MessicksEquip]

Would not agree they cost more to fix. There is a power difference.

[@bradjenkins932]

@@MessicksEquip A $300 clutch?

[@jyuke9955]

Should chains be put on the front or back wheels. We had 20 inches last week and my MX4800 with industrial tires had very poor traction.

[@dngendron]

Exactly what I want to hear. I just made a set of chains for my front wheels on my BX23s because of loss of steering control pushing a plow in deep heavy snow. Hoping the chains help with that but haven’t had another storm since I made them.

[@wildbill23c]

Technically both. It doesn't do you any good to have traction to move forward or backwards if you have no traction to turn so ideally you'd want chains front and rear. On a tractor the brakes are on the rear only typically so braking isn't as much of an issue as it would be on a car...but if you put chains on the front or rear of a car only and hit the brakes hard on ice you'll quickly find how important it is to have chains on all 4 tires to keep the vehicle pointed in the right direction, you'll quickly throw whatever end of the vehicle without chains into a slide...so on a tractor when you are trying to work in very slippery conditions you'll really want chains on both front and rear to give you the ability to move forward and backward as well as left and right...even with 4WD, you still are limited to the available traction.

[@beetlefang]

Ummm...the obvious missed comment is...Neil, where do we get cool hats like that? Curious Floridians want to know and see a link...

[@N98858]

Hey Neil, My wife mentioned on Saturday just after clearing 24 inches of Snow that perhaps I should have used the Tractor...(would have been the 1st time) It's a Kubota B2650 HST, would I have used the "High Gearing Setting" so as you mentioned "Not to Spin the Tires in 4WD" and after the pust forward to "Bucket Folat" then pull back a click so as to NOT lift the front tires off the ground? Thanks for any and all advice ';-) Mike...

[@MessicksEquip]

you'll want to use medium range, not high.

[@N98858]

@@MessicksEquip Thanks... Got-it ';-)

[@fhuber7507]

You want to use medium or low speed range because the hydrostatic cools better in a gear closer to using full pedal. Also you'll have the engine RPM up where the loader works better.

[@erikrunas226]

What model were you working with today?

[@MessicksEquip]

L4701 gear

[@erikrunas226]

@@MessicksEquip thanks. That L4701 seemed more than up for the task at hand. Kind of wish I had the need for a tractor of that size.

[@Mark-Marine]

First, remind me not to buy a gear tractor you’ve driven; and that’s a real nice hat you’re wearing 😳

[@dngendron]

Couple of gear grinds 😂

[@jifi-0178]

Di$count $100 off per grind

[@bahabob1386]

You love plowing snow? the sun is out and its not that cold, how about when its in the teens,the wind is blowing with snow coming down 2"/hr at night without cab?:)

[@MessicksEquip]

Love it. That's me though.

[@jimwilloughby]

Right on, Baha Bob. In my youth, nigh on 55 years ago, I had an IH 350 Utility with a front end loader, and I move a lot of snow with it. It was in central Massachsetts . I remember many a night doing my customer's driveways under those exact conditions. Some times it was fun, but most of the time, it was torture.

[@bahabob1386]

@@jimwilloughby I'm not young any more, definitely getting a cab, the storm on the 16/17 was it.

[@briangc1972]

Hydrostatic tractors are LOUD and NOISY! Gear tractors are quiet. With a gear tractor, you just set your rpm and select the proper gear for the speed at which you want to plow snow and let it do the work. Pushing the clutch to go to reverse is no big deal or time waster as you said. I can change directions as quickly on my 12 speed tractor as my neighbor on his noisy hydrostatic tractor. I don't even use my brakes because the load stops me fast enough that I just push in the clutch and pop the selector in R to back up. I think you are making up s&!t to upsell the consumer to a more expensive unit that requires more maintenance.

[@paulnorman8274]

For working as close as possible to curbs, walls, cars and $100K equipment, hydros are just easier to maneuver more precisely for hours on end. Same story doing loader work. Once out in the slightly more open, hydros do become annoying.

[@Renault_75-34MX]

I think a CVT might be best in combination with a clutch-less shuttle because you would only need the clutch to start, and the CVT can be adjusted anytime

[@MessicksEquip]

Most currently have reliability issues.

[@meadowviewlawncarellc8079]

Does Kubota offer a hydro-reverser? I have a gear drive, sometimes wish it was hydro but the hydro-reverse on mine I can shift forward and reverse or go to neutral without using the clutch unless I have to come to a complete stop.

[@MessicksEquip]

Yes, on the next series up

[@quinnthomas9965]

"agronomically"

[@jifi-0178]

EGGronomically >>> the way it sounds when Neil says it. >.

[@redneck5356]

Mines gear drive.

[@jthomp997]

Best way to put it. Actual field tractors should be gear driven. The lawn mowers you call tractors are fine being hydro. I'm not even against hydro. I love it for doing my loader work and definitely for snow pushing but just stop acting like it's the 100% superior transmission

[@C_J_81]

Though there are exceptions to that rule. If you are baling with a smaller tractor hydrostatic would be nice so you don't have to ride the clutch.

[@a1081042]

Sorry, I do not like hydros.

[@bobturner3667]

Call me old fashioned, but gear is better, nuff said.

[@LivingOurAmericanDream]

You’re old fashioned. 😎

[@dougstead7456]

you are great!!!

[@dougstead7456]

i have an l3901,, is there a different right foot pedal? i find it uncomfortable ?

[@MessicksEquip]

Try going backwards by lifting with you toe.