Plywood as Finish (part 2) - Installation, Tips, + Finishing

[@sethgrueneberg]

How would you go about installing panels on the ceiling? Construction adhesive + screws? Is there a “hidden fastener” option?

[@knowntodigress]

I am so happy to have found your channel. The incredible amount of information you're shared (even down to screw detailing in order to adjust for stud variation), the clear impart of specifics and manufacturer names is beyond appreciated.

[@jungchang-woo3487]

Appreciate your decency to walk through these details of finishing.

[@judichristopher4604]

I just learned this lesson about OIL Polyurethane, and Water Based Poly OIL always "Yellows" which is fine if that is what you're going for... Water based is CLEAR ... Big Difference... Thank God for Sample Boards.

[@kingasz100]

Hi Eric, I am wondering which wood finish you decided to use in the end....and how does it performed over time. Thnx

[@bryanwiesendahl]

In architectural millwork we typically put a spline between panels that are butted. This keeps them in the exact same plane, no matter what the sub-wall is doing, and it's not finicky like reversing screws. Keeps things flat without visible fasteners, too. If the reveal is fairly shallow it's just cut into one of the panels, or both. If the panels are physically separated there's some sort of a backing behind them (which you would see through the reveal), so that serves the purpose of keeping the edges on the same plane. Usually it's glued and micropinned,, or something along those lines.

[@ThekiBoran]

Bryan Wiesendahl Most paneling jobs I've done we used 3 1/2" rabbeted cleat made of MDF. I've used z clips also but with MDF you can attach it to the walls so it straddles the vertical seams of the 2 panels. It's also easy to shave down if you've got a soffet at the top and it's easy slide panels left or right if you need to scribe the sides. And it's cheap too. I love MDF! Just kidding, but it is a great material for building.

[@obscurazone]

Finding panels that are pre milled along the edges to accommodate a spline though is impossible. Unless you know otherwise!

[@credmon3346]

Very helpful. Starting a tiny home build and will be using birch ply to line the walls. Your previous video as well as this one has helped me in understanding how to attach

[@jwiecha]

I believe the screws he is recommending are the GRK 'Shim head' screws - originally designed for use in framing doors. The standard (and much less expensive) trim head screws he shows in the video will not adjust the panels. But they will not crack and don't require counter sinking.

[@Raubarq]

Wow. Great videos! Excellent work btw. Glad to see this level of dedication making videos, hard to find these days in the construction area.

[@ThekiBoran]

Raubarq There are many of us out here doing extremely high quality finish work both in commercial and residential.

[@peterthompson5750]

Did you end up leaving the wood unfinished? If not, which finish did you choose?

[@taronsargsyan9869]

thank you @Eric, may I ask which kind of plywood do you buy or where would you suggest to buy plywoods for finishing

[@PrinceCbass]

A little trick around adjustable boxes is to wrap them with aluminum foil before the spray foam. This keeps the insulation from adhering to the boxes but still allowing a really good fit.

[@JournyOfaPeacefulRuller]

Thank you for making this video, not only it was educational, it also had some great tips.

[@jazzbeats8168]

really good videos m whats the best way to conceal nail holes?

[@hellonoko]

Thank you for the video Eric, I have a few question for you. 1. Did you consider wrapping the electrical boxes in something like bubble wrap or scrap cloth prior to foaming, so that could be easily pulled out rather than digging behind them after? Do you think this would work well? 2. It looks like your butt joints in the wall corners are perfect. How did you get everything so square? Shim the end wall plywood to perfect and build from that or something similar? 3. How about the right angle cuts around the window and the cut outs for the electrical boxes? How did you, or your carpenters get everything so precise? Can you mount the plywood and then cut it out over the electrical box the same way you can with drywall with a zip tool or similar? C&C cutting? A Festool oscillating plunge cut tool? Can plywood be hand planed on its edge? I can't imagine there is much room for trial and error at $120 a sheet. Thanks!

[@30by40]

cheers...+hellonoko...let's see: 1) no...I'm still searching for the right product for foam and electrical boxes. My preference is to keep them outside of the foam altogether by using a double (or deeper) wall system and adjustable boxes. Ideally I would want a box within a box configuration which would allow me to slide the interior box around after the wall has been foamed. I've tried surrounding the boxes with both rigid foam and Roxul at the boxes with limited success. 2) We knew the interior corners had to be nice and square / plumb to get things looking right. This takes a little extra care during framing that's all. If budget allows you can use PSL framing which is more dimensionally uniform and stable for these applications. We set the side wall panels first, then the shorter end walls easily slipped into place. You can scribe them if the framing is less than perfect, but the veneer can chip out so it's better to make sure the underlying framing is good before installing the panels (shim as necessary). 3) We simply transferred measurements from the wall to the plywood panels for these situations. Drilled corners of j-boxes and cut in-between with a combination of power and hand saws. Not much room for error, you're right! If you're unsure, buy some Ramboard, make a template and test-fit first. Edges should be treated with care due to the chip-out as noted above. A rabbeted trim detail at the windows and doors - even minimal ones like I used - help to conceal any chipping or minor cutting errors. Plan your joints in a way that maximizes each sheet but also makes cutting simpler. We worked up a joint / sheet layout as a first step. Good luck!

[@hellonoko]

Great! Thanks for the detailed answers!

[@MHSFCA2024]

Thanks for all the great info. I think you mentioned shellac early on in your video, but did do state why or why not use for this particular project. I look forward to viewing and learning more from your videos. Thanks again.

[@ericafors6039]

Huge Hans Wegner fan! My favorite is his hoop chair. To me, it is an iconic simple, natural and perfect design. Thx for the video. We want to do something different with our interior walls. I hate drywall as a finish material and would like to get away from that look as much as possible within our budget. I thing a smaller running bond pattern would work better for our space.

[@michaelkiser7405]

very helpful tips... i am looking to do plywood countertops in my 1830's house to add a lil bit of modern element to the space.. am wondering what would be a good sealant to really help waterproof it and keep a low sheet and as white as i can keep the ply with no yellowing... i know i am asking lots for a cooking surface from such a product..... but any advice you have would be amazing..

[@mariajudova]

Great informative video, thank you! Could you please recommend the finish for birch plywood used for the kitchen cabinets? I liked the look of water based polyurethane finish- would that be suitable? I would say project goals are 1-protection, 2-low sheen, 3-non yellowing natural look.

[@nucalabadze3850]

very informative - especially on finishes, thank you.

[@eleelife]

Great vid thx. Can you talk about hidden fasteners for ceiling panels. I am looking for a vibration free, removable sheet mounting system.

[@jessiesurber]

Have you seen many examples of painted plywood? We are finishing out an office I cannot convince the the end users to keep the wood look. We are using plywood for speed of the project.

[@Kelly-lo6cz]

Where do you recommend buying all American made plywood? The only stores I know of near me that sell plywood are Lowes and Home Depot.

[@30by40]

Search for terms like: 'cabinet grade plywood' near you. Most suppliers don't sell direct, but you can access them via smaller lumberyards + specialty millwork dealers. Hope that helps!

[@sunalwaysshinesonTVs]

4yrs later. What do you go with and how has it stood up?

[@realjester]

Very informative. I'm a new subscriber just started looking through your KZbin catalog I'm enjoying the quality and detail of your Videos👍👍👍

[@30by40]

thanks +realjester!

[@rjjrrailsgscalesolenske5231]

Great video helped me alot ,im in process of doing this right now in my new wood shop

[@kimchee94112]

How do you locate a wall stud to mount something heavy like a large TV or earthquake anchor book cases? How do you patch a little openings to make it match? Do building codes require fire ratings for walls or the installation over sheetrock?

[@JO-lx9bx]

Buy a wall stud finder, use wood filler, depends on your local laws and other details of the project

[@TheTriumph1966]

Ney Eric, great video and very thorough! Can you share the brand of plywood you're using?

[@dpaulwheatley]

very informative vid, I appreciate all the tips, techniques and advice

[@evcmenssoccer3604]

Very informative. I like how you go into detail. Your goal was not protection which is not so much of an issue with walls. Any recommendations on wood areas that would get a lot of abuse like cabinets that would have you hands touching them a lot?

[@30by40]

+EVC Men's Soccer - thanks for watching...I would consider lacquers (pre + post-catalyzed) as having the best-in-class durability for most clear-finished cabinetry applications. Cheers...

[@ThekiBoran]

30X40 Design Workshop Finishing is not my forte but the trend is away from oil-based finishes. With that General Finishes High Performance Top Coat can't be beaten for durability. It also dries quickly and cleanup is quick and easy.

[@edwinpojoy3055]

thank's, aprecio tu trabajo y dedicación por estos vídeos.. gracias!!

[@lesleymadill4164]

Could you please tell me the Screws you did use for installation thanks

[@halstirrup]

Thank that was really informative. Which finish are you going pick.

[@30by40]

+Hal Stirrup thanks...glad it was helpful. I'm still undecided on the finish...I'll be sure to post a comment here when I choose a direction. Cheers...

[@judichristopher4604]

@SystolicPilot Still deciding 3 years later!!!! ?

[@jacquesnel6235]

Excellent video series. I love your architecture videos. I am doing a similar installation using Baltic birch plywood. What brand screws exactly are you using? I assume you are using something like GRK trim head composite screws. Were the fastener holes covered with wood putty? Also, after time, did you experience any issues with wood movement / expansion?

[@chandraattayi2355]

If the plywood wall was going to be behind a kitchen wall as a backsplash would you recommend one in particular? Also, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE VIDEOS!

[@ThekiBoran]

Chandra Attayi If you're going to use plywood as a backsplash in a kitchen, be sure to seal it very well with too many coats of clear. I happen to like a non yellowing water based clear coat because it looks good, it dries fast and clean up is as easy as H E double hockey sticks.

[@nwsvndr]

Great videos! (Parts 1 and 2.) Do you countersink the fasteners? Also, what wood/grade plywood did you use? Thanks!

[@30by40]

I used trim head screws so countersinking wasn't necessary. For larger screws, you might experiment with a scrap piece to see what nets the best results. The face veneer is quite thin and depending on the species can be more or less prone to chip out. The face veneer I selected was CVG (Clear Vertical Grain)...I ordered extra sheets so I could cull what I liked and send back the others. Cheers...

[@ThekiBoran]

DrG My experience with "cabinet grade" plywood from Home Cheapo is that it's only suitable for garage applications. It's thickness is horribly inconsistent and sometimes the veneers are beat up or full of, I can't think of the word, where the branches grew out of. Time for bed I think.

[@halvardp]

Do you have a final advice on the easiest and best way to preserve the lightness of pine veneer? Water-based varnish (pigmented?), woka oil or soap?

[@30by40]

To preserve a "white" look in pine I would recommend starting with WOCA's Wood Lye ( amzn.to/2dsZGIg ) and finishing with the WOCA Master Oil in White ( amzn.to/2eeknKv ). The lye acts to bleach out the yellow hue of the pine and the master oil tints it ever so slightly white. I've used this on furniture and been very pleased; it hasn't aged to a deep amber as pine usually does. Experiment on a few samples first to compare whether you like how it appears without the lye pretreatment as that's the one thing that prevents this from being the 'easiest' finish. Make sure you wear protection when using the lye (eyes and gloves)...good luck!

[@mootzeroni]

Nice explainer. Thank you.

[@FoolyLiving]

I like the wood lye treatment that you have on the stool. You mention it's toxic, but does it stay toxic and off-gas after you've treated it, or does it just bleach the wood out and then you wash it all away? I would love to have polished concrete floors, but we're most likely moving in to a flood zone so the house would be elevated. Probably will have plywood floors. Have you ever used self-leveling concrete over a plywood floor with piers for the foundation? I just wonder if it would bust up. My favorite floors are stained and polished concrete.

[@30by40]

Hi, + FoolyLiving ...it doesn't remain toxic, it's the treatment and disposal of the material that's the problem. RE: concrete floors. We do lightweight concrete slabs on wood framing frequently. Control joints and an engineering floor framing package/design will ensure they perform as expected. Good luck!

[@ThekiBoran]

FoolyLiving I thought the woca product looked a bit splochy. I liked the natural look of water based clear coats but Minwax, I believe, is an inferior product and I never had good luck with it. Then I discovered General Finishes HP water based Top coat. That stuff can be sprayed and when brushed on it lays out like an oil, unlike the more watery Minwax. The General Finishes top coat also is tough as nails. I know you aren't/weren't looking for that but it is durable.

[@ericafors6039]

I don’t recommend anything but wood for the elevated foundations near the ocean or on water in the south east. The floors and joists saturate with age (in humid south here). They swell, move and become spongy over time (20-40 years). People with large format first floor tiling usually live to regret it. If you’re going that route use an uncoupling membrane and closed cell foam on the underside of the foundation. This would only work for newer construction, unless you’re replacing the old TG subfloors. I wouldn’t recommend trying a polished concrete look, it’s beautiful but impractical.

[@jmertens3088]

This was so informative - thanks! You mentioned in comments that you're leaving the plywood unfinished for now. Any reason I couldn't do that permanently - leave my panels raw?

[@30by40]

You're welcome, glad it was helpful! The disadvantages of leaving it unfinished - primarily - are: 1) more difficult to clean and keep clean 2) The wood won't be UV protected, which means it will darken more quickly than if you had finished it. This will be more apparent in highly phototropic (cherry or fir for example) woods or spaces with a lot of windows. 3) Overall it's a less durable finish, which could be fine depending on the use; 4) Will be subject to more movement with changes in humidity. Honestly...I've been really happy with the unfinished plywood in the studio, but if it were to get heavily scuffed (in a higher traffic or more abused area) I'd be disappointed and probably need to finish it. Good luck...!

[@ThekiBoran]

J Mertens The only possible place I would consider leaving wood unfinished is a ceiling area. But there too you have issues of heat and moisture potentially affecting it.

[@learningcoach1]

CAn you talk about how to get multiple panel that match?

[@ziikzaaak]

Will lye & soap finish get yellow over time?

[@adapa22]

Thank you so much for these detailed videos !

[@neviscycles9491]

Great video! What trim head nail did you use? I'm concerned to use trim head nails that have 1/2" of smooth shaft below the head before the thread starts.

[@30by40]

No nails used, see 6:34...cheers...

[@gentrygriffin2756]

Did you come to a decision on which one you used? Thanks for the video! Very informative.

[@30by40]

Cheers Gentry...decided to leave it unfinished (for now)...

[@gentrygriffin2756]

Good to know, you'll have to let us know if you decide to finish it. Looks great!

[@andyduomo9229]

OMG a plywood nerd! Awesome video

[@espritrawflowers9497]

Excellent video. I look forward to your decision on which finish to use. Also, how do you finish the edges, and what saw blade do you recommend?

[@30by40]

+Esprit Raw Flowers - the edges are butt-jointed with no special finish/trim/covering. For cutting, I recommend a fine-toothed blade like this one: thirtybyforty.com/plywoodblade ; the trade-off is the more teeth the more quickly they'll dull. Cheers...

[@ThekiBoran]

Esprit Raw Flowers Like 30x40 said a fine tooth blade is best but it should also be a down cut blade. If the jigsaw is sitting on the workpiece the teeth should angle downwards.

[@howimade3309]

love your vids! tons of great info

[@MaZEEZaM]

I really like the Danish Oil in its current state, you did say it will yellow over time, what sort of time period would you be looking at, also did you find an alternative that had the same look as the danish oil as you had it in the video without the yellowing over time? I like the slightly darker but still light finish of the danish oil over the other options you show.

[@30by40]

+MaZEEZaM yellowing all depends on UV exposure...still haven't finished it at this point...

[@_fatalruin]

Have you looked into de-waxed shellac as a finish? It shouldn't amber the wood, yet it will bring out some of the figure. Also it won't yellow with time or UV exposure. It dries quickly to boot, subsequently speeding up finishing times.

[@30by40]

Interesting, I'll have to test it...so many products! thanks for sharing...

[@ruben00110010]

BT&C makes an awesome line of shellacs. I guess the blond would match what you are looking for. I've also used a bees wax and turpentine based soft wax. I looks good, brings out the grain in the wood, has a slight sheen, and smells great. It might yellow on you though. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@tomfoolery40]

great video

Excellent videos ! Thanks a lot 👍

[@30by40]

you're quite welcome...thanks for watching...

[@2484marshall]

Just what I needed, thanks!!

[@noushzad19]

thank you this was really helpful

[@jobney]

Which finish did you end up going with?

[@blackl1steddrums]

So helpful! Thank you man

[@amyhurst2662]

So so helpful

[@michaelvaughn2287]

The amount of time you spent lining the two brackets together you would have saved money by replacing the brackets on the studs with aluminum bar or at that thickness could qualify as strap with a washer or two for offset . This way when you mount the panels all you have to worry about is the height of the bracket on the back of the panel so that it lines up with the continues bar or strap running around the room . Much faster and you could order half as many brackets because they come two to a set .

[@30by40]

??? They're attached thru the face with screws...

[@michaelvaughn2287]

@@30by40 ??? Wtf are you talking about ? A two peace aluminum bracket ! Have you not watched the video post ???

[@30by40]

You must not have watched the whole video...I didn't go with the brackets the panels are face attached...

[@michaelvaughn2287]

@@30by40 I did not I allowed myself to be pulled away thought it was basically over. Sorry I will go back .

[@noserly]

The Reverend Horton Heat?

[@csyoung82]

Curious what your thoughts are on Rubio Monocoat and Sikkens Cetol- ever use it?

[@30by40]

I haven't used Rubio Monocoat but have used Sikkens Cetol for exterior marine-environment clear finishes. I found wear time (less than 2 year re-coat time) at least here on the coast, as well as coloration (heavy ambering) to be an issue with the Cetol.

[@csyoung82]

I've found the same issues with Cetol and I've heard great things about Rubio but have never used it first hand. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[@realbigmic]

Good video thanks..👍

[@zephyrsspeedshop3708]

How did you remove the ink stampings from the plywood before staining?

[@JO-lx9bx]

Use a sander

[@AquaCulinarius]

I'm sorry. You're a fantastic resource and an inspiration, but did you just say light box instead of window? I am so scared studying architecture is going to do things like this to me D:

[@mr.e5930]

How could you make it look like dry wall ?

[@alheeley]

Finishing: Natural - leave it uncoated? Easy to apply: Apply nothing? Non-yellowing: dont apply anything!: Protection not important: don't coat it? Does it NEED to be finished at all? I'm thinking of a water-tight workshop environment.

[@scon1425]

“Telescope”? Or telegraph?

[@roberteads9995]

HVLP and lacquer

[@stephensonbrown]

unfinished can work too #mytwocents