Podcast 280: Trauma bonding, toxic emotional attachment + how to find healing & freedom

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SHOW DESCRIPTION: In this podcast I answer another question from a listener on toxic relationships and trauma bonds. Trauma bonds are chains that link a victim to someone who is dangerous to them within the confines of an exploitive relationship. Divorce, employee relations, child abuse, family and marital systems, domestic violence, kidnapping, exploitation and religious abuse can all be areas of trauma bonding. All these relationships share one thing: “they are situations of incredible intensity or importance where there is an exploitation of trust or power”.
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PODCAST HIGHLIGHTS:
2:05 What a trauma bond is
4:20 Trauma bonding and exploitation
9:00, 33:40 Gaslighting and other relationship warning signs
11:02, 29:00 Why we can never “fix” someone else
14:00 Why boundaries are so important in a relationship
14:24 Sometimes ending a relationship may be the best thing for both people
19:00 How a trauma bond can impact your health
24:50 How to help someone who doesn’t want to change while putting up boundaries
35:15 Why trauma bonds are so confusing
36:45 How relationships change your mind, brain and bond
44:00 How to use mind management to heal trauma from toxic relationships
51:05 Tips to help heal a trauma bond
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
-Visit my website at drleaf.com for more free resources Follow me on social media for daily mental health tips & strategies:
Instagram: @drcarolineleaf: / drcarolineleaf
-Facebook: Dr. Caroline Leaf: / drleaf
-Twitter: @drcarolineleaf: / drcarolineleaf
-KZbin: / drcarolineleaf
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[@alisaclarisse]

That is why it was difficult to leave. You trying to help them, love them, fix them but in return they neglect you in the process, neglecting your needs etc.

[@suzyr5331]

It’s especially difficult when it’s with a family member who we fundamentally love & desire a healthy loving relationship with 🙏🏻💕

[@minazagrean9653]

P

[@epluribusunum1460]

I’m there, too, my trauma bond is with my brother, who has wanted me/discarded/ghosted me. He has terminal cancer. I don’t think I’ll ever grieve his death because the end of the stress will be a relief.

[@Thankful305]

Yes it is hard just like she said because of all the hurt. Forgiving is where I started. Boundaries 2nd. Nice/empathetic people have a hard time with boundaries. I thought they shut people out but they actually keep us safe. Then kept an objective point of view. We have to focus on ourselves, by separating from them ... That is so hard because we want them to change so badly bc their nice is really nice!! But their bad is horrendous and intolerable !! 🙏

[@elizabethogletree9963]

My trauma bond was my husband. Thank you to a wonderful program that has given my daughter and I a good baseline to move on

[@justinebrink4056]

Mine is my first love. So painful, I still love him and want to help him but he can't even admit he has NPD but he doesn't deny it either.. He knows but he won't face it. Maybe he is addicted to cycling women and going through the honeymoon phase.. It's heartbreaking and I can't get him out of my mind ;-(

[@shannonthomsen7446]

I'm just fresh out of an abusive relationship with a narcissistic person. This relationship was so traumatic.

[@martincuper5142]

I'm am in se situation unfortunately

[@neoneaglespirit97]

I left over a year ago. And if there was one powerful phrase I could say to myself a year ago to help with the healing process is "It's okay.". My feelings have been so damaged by gaslighting in the relationship that it's important to practice self-parenting and validate those thoughts and feelings. Slow down. Take your time. Be kind to yourself. Healing will take as long as it takes. Tell yourself it's okay. Even if you don't feel okay, that's okay too.

[@Supergigi21]

@@neoneaglespirit97 hi, I just left a narc yesterday and I’d like to know what helped you in your healing process. This is so painful

[@neoneaglespirit97]

@Supergigi21 Besides what I already mentioned, I continually watching videos regarding healing from codependency. I recently, a few months ago, started going to Codependent Anonymous. It's possible that's not the first thing you want to pick up after a traumatic relationship, it wasn't the first thing I did after all, but I also wasn't aware of its existence either. It helps with fellowship I need.

[@vallovinlife]

Really helped me understand why it’s been so difficult to just walk away. Really going to focus on doing the work and using the App to clean up my mental mess.

[@valeriewalkerwhite9525]

"Mental Mess" Love it...thanks for the phrase...love and light to you

[@kaseyyoung322]

We don't cause nor can we control or cure anyone else's issues, particularly addiction. She's essentially addicted to the addict. BEEN THERE.. YOU'RE AWESOME DR LEAF 🍃 😀 ❤

[@amberm5626]

This is by far the best video I have ever seen on trauma bonding. My experience with a person is so relatable. I identified it as an anxious avoidant trap. Very intense highs and lows with the other being a daily substance user as self medicating and I with my own severe childhood trauma feeling the need to help and fix him not realizing how much I needed to heal myself and how inappropriate it was for me to try to fix another person. It was the most excruciating experience of my life. We triggered each other to the max. Terrible for both people involved and so toxic. I found it nearly impossible to break free from it. It requires so much self awareness and reparenting/rewiring.

[@vilmabock478]

🌷From GERMANY, I have your books 📚 and you are AMAZING! I have learned so much from your books and I have been able to help and understand myself and others. God bless you! 💕

[@KelzHahn]

Oh my, this is my current life! I feel like I have failed. He has become distant and silent and it scares me. I have to leave Him in God’s hands. How can I begin to heal? I need to walk alongside someone to help me!

[@njah1590]

💕 I think understanding this stuff is the first step. But then we can really use the pain of this to become more conscious within ourselves and our lives. I take comfort in knowing that love never dies and that I don’t have to stop loving. When I find myself in a state of longing and fear I have learnt to find peace. Each time I do this it’s like building a muscle and the state of chaotic bonding becomes shorter. Lots of self-care and compassion. This is intense work x

[@katiefraser7266]

Beautiful timing of this video for me in my life. 6 weeks free of a 9yr Trauma bond. It really is a daily mental and physical fight and the hardest thing I've had to face in my life. Weekly therapy sessions to work on my own trauma healing. The distance and time without them in my life is the real key to breaking free. Caroline explains this so clearly in this video. thank you so much for providing this information.

[@Tasch81]

Good luck and stay strong, don't doubt your decision. You made it for a reason. Write those reasons down, because you will need to remind yourself when you feel weak. 9yrs is a long time. I'm on 21yrs and still have to make the bold move that you have done for yourself. Good on you for being courageous. Write down ypur why's and then you compliment yourself for the bravery and boldness. And you read that, when it gets tough. I'm rooting for you. Jesus be with you.

[@Tasch81]

Ah Sorry.. not weak, but vulnerable. You're not weak at all ;)

[@Mysticallove121]

How are you coping now Katie.im just out of 9 year trauma bond also..to the point I didn't know I was being abused..till after he discarded me for not doing what he asked for me a month ago..2 weeks after he got with someone else but I didn't care because of the trauma bond was so strong..but now it's easing a bit but I still think about him..some good..most bad..and a lot about how someone who I loved could go out of his way to intentionally hurt me.i even remember when it started..the things he done to make insecure..and how he would blame me for every argument and made me think it was all me..but I know now it wasn't my fault...but I would like to get your opinion on how you dealt with the bonding

[@username.not.known2473]

Are you still out?

[@taraandhollandbrown222]

This lady is more than brilliant!!! I LOVE EVERYTHING SHE DOES AND STANDS FOR!!❤️🙏🏻 Thank you Dr Leaf for being obedient to God’s calling!

[@0oohnegative]

It makes so much sense that we are wired for love and I feel it deep in my bones. This brought me a lot of self compassion and peace, I’m not just a fool. I’m wired for love, I believe in love, and that’s a beautiful thing. Thanks for that mental shift. Much love to you all.

[@mgh926]

of course we are. God is Love and He created us just so that we love Him and enjoy Him and Him us and much more than this

[@saramkatocz]

Thank you so much, Dr Leaf for the amazing content you are providing for FREE. What a blessing! Sending kind love and prayers to you, from Nova Scotia, Canada.

[@KingsDaughter.]

We don't always need therapy, and often therapy isn't available or affordable for many people. However with God we can overcome any trauma if we really go to him and want to work with him and be set free.

[@leeroymayweathercana4968]

This woman is a genius

[@mgh926]

she totally is. she has been called THE MOST INTELLIGENT WOMAN ever lived this planet. It probably is true.

[@tyajx]

The person I was with was a complete actor so yes, it was very confusing. He was bad off on substances and really aggressively angry when he was drunk so I felt the need to tip toe around his emotions often. They give you beautiful moments, promise for better days and then suddenly turn volatile and try to smooth it over after some time. Don’t wish that on my worst enemy. I hate that I make myself available to this still as the line of communication is still open but I’m trying to heal.

[@tyajx]

LISTEN TO YOUR WISE MIND!!!!

[@helstonew05]

He didn’t want to go to therapy, even after being diagnosed with ptsd. I loved him, still do. And he had all of the red flags, suicide attempts in the past, suicidal ideation in the relationship, alcoholism…and he took his pain and anxiety out on me and blamed me for how he was feeling. I’m traumatized. And I don’t know where the trauma bond ends and my true feelings for him begin. I convinced myself that he never loved because that’s the only way I can rationalize how he discarded me. I know he was hurting and it’s not my fault, but I still ruminate about what I didn’t do, and how I could have supported him more. It’s hard for me to feel anything anymore.

[@stephaniebephanie3542]

I am in this EXACT situation except after years of begging he finally went to get help and that is when the discard happened. I am heartbroken and feel the same feeling you have about where does the bond end and the love start?

[@thulisilemokgala]

Thank you so much I have been struggling with similar issue this has made me feel relieved

[@monikawilliams6337]

Dr Leaf you have changed my life. The letter is exactly ME! After 40 years of marriage I have left come back many times, now he's thrown me out for the 3rd time and the journey has begun. By me not going back has forced him to seek help. I am now sharing your podcasts with my councelor so she can recommend you to other patients. Thank you. I've ordered the book x

[@lauraroush2807]

Thank you. You are doing light work. Thank you for producing this video.

[@LetyBravo]

I see you standing behind a window or a balcony window. Your eyes are closed, you're smiling. Your arms are stretched to your sides. I have the sense of "flying" and "letting go". It seems like the day is coming to a close; the sun is still out, but it won't be long before it sets. And I am under the impression that you're in a very tall structure (condo? palace? hotel?), looking out the window from very high up, very far away from the ground. I feel peace all around, and am under the impression it is time to put something great to bed, and not because there's any problem with it, but simply because it's the kairos time of God to do so. Thank you very much, Dr Leaf, on my behalf and His - thank you very much for all your kingdom work. :)

[@CodyCole80]

YAH, I pray you will relieve my father of his trauma bonds. Amen!

[@nonaguma9597]

Its a very complex situation to find yourself in a trauma bond relationship,I've deleted his and walked away in tears,all I want to know how long it will take to disconnect my mind,intense feelings to love him so that I can move on find my own healing a start in a healthy new relationship,I've gone back so many times,but I know it's final,I need a healthy relationship.

[@Noelle2024]

It’s different for everyone. For me it was like i was going through withdrawals. I would say Focus on healing your childhood traumas

[@njah1590]

This is the best explanation. And particular the invisible quantum bond and habitual compulsion to return because of the intensity’s. I like how it is centred around trauma and not good versus bad. I also like how you make it very clear that we cannot heal another, and that if we are pulled into trauma state also, then we most certainly cannot be a positive factor in the lives of those caught up in a trauma state. I described my submission into trauma bonding as like being in quicksand. I thought I had the situation under control and that I could stay centred. I soon found myself drowning in a trauma bond that is taking months to Neutralise

[@shellybarnes5429]

This is exactly what I have been praying about. Excited to watch this!

[@makaylahollywood3677]

This happened to me in my family- i thought i was close. I never engaged in drama. I end up feeling betrayed. I walked away- i struggle with guilt. I think we all have trauma. I feel relief alone, loneliness and guilt. Since I was young- i've always helped others, siblings, parents and others. I still want to be a good aunt to my niece though i need to help myself first.

[@sheriedwards362]

When I first saw the thumbnail of this video I swear to you I thought it was Celine dion! LOL

[@Beelaxed]

I was reading your book today. Thank you for your work. I am currently experiencing similar situation and am not able to get out. I will get out!!!!

[@noturbo]

this last time i went back she did not answer my messages or block me it was if i did not exist she only posted a taylor swift song so glad this is finally over and i am not contacting her ever again one day at time i can finally be rid of this trauma

[@lolamarie3884]

thank you so much for this useful and wonderful information! You videos are extremely educational and are definitely opening up something within me. Thank you again!!!

[@gracekennelly8534]

You’ve been sooo helpful Caroline.!! Thankyou! 💕🙏💕

[@shirleymoore5201]

I totally understand Caroline my marriage 33 year was an addiction....because when I left I felt like an alcoholic...coming of drink ..the relationship was a drink 🍸..I also felt pathological loneliness...felt it was coming out of my pores ......years of numbing ..my process literally de numbing. Vert high intensity..I under there was a draw towards high intensity relationships ...drama my fix if you like ..lately I've become detached..as a safety mechanism...lack of love and support .there's always a carrot ...the wise mind knows none attachment thats all I've got at the moment...to heal ..because I've detached from myself ...as far as I understand.. I feel I need a bridge to cross over letting go I'm wondering is that why I'm feeling so detached...?...before I felt detached ...I was in a state of loneliness and isolation...I need to reconnect to my own body ..

[@lindakolba2635]

This is the best explanation on this topic that I have seen, thank you!

[@GABRod-yk3nd]

Thank you so much, you are heaven healing. Just revisiting your work in this season of my life where I am sandwiched between being present to my teens and seeing my mom’s brain tangled. You have given me insight on how to help my mom and how to teach my kids how to manage their mind!! I truly love you🙏🏽❤️

[@bogauschcaroline]

Just what I needed this morning. ❤ Thank you🙏

[@Musclemvn]

I couldn’t agree more!

[@BlackPlightPeople]

This information is very important

[@Musclemvn]

🗣💯

[@jenniferarnold-delgado3489]

My mother has always treated me as an aggressor since the pre birth experience - is it possible that in a culture where children and childbirth are not incorporated as natural and enjoyed element of life , that the mother to infant relationship is actually " Trauma Bonded " , as opposed to be nature bonded ? For me the creation of trauma in my life , by my mother has been inconceivable - Her projection of gloom and doom makes no sense to me . I will be listening to this pod cast with the perception of how can a person who is 84 years old heal her trauma and let the relationship progress naturally . So sick of this kind of engagements - relationship is not to be so impossible, family is not supposed to be like this , it's hard enough as it is .

[@Jmay411]

I'm going through this right now so this is extremely helpful.

[@Musclemvn]

Thank you for your time and information Dr.🥰💪🏾👑

[@kathirosemazzorana377]

I’ve needed this for so long. The woman in the letter expressed my thoughts and feelings. Thank you for sharing your amazing gift. What about children stuck in this pattern with their father whom they have no control over distancing? It’s horrible what it’s doing to my grandsons. How do I help?

[@denisesummers6909]

I really need this. I keep cycling through this over and over from one toxic relationship to another I am just tired. I don’t see the other two books mentioned. Could you please give those also. Thank you.

[@alcottdevalte7440]

Another gem of an episode :-)

[@oiaalmondmilk501]

Thank you

[@cosmogal.ashella1907]

Definition of trauma-bond 32:00

[@wesleyhall3554]

Can 2 people who have had various traumas end up bonding to each other? I read some warning signs of TB and my marriage had all of them but I don't think we are necessarily abusive to each other per se, maybe toxic. We had such an intense cycle and thought we could "save" each other. I ground her and she gets me out of my shell. That's what we always said but now I'm rethinking everything. A few years ago I got to a point of being so unhappy and so I removed myself emotionally from the relationship. After years of depression, she realized what was happening and is trying to work on our relationship but I've not been able to see her as I used to see her. I wonder now how much we ever loved each other and how much we simply latched onto each other to try and recover from trauma. We've been together for 13 years and have 3 kids so breaking up is not an easy consideration.

[@lifesong484]

Excellent explanation

[@vanessarenae5169]

What if the transfer of pain is from being put onto a spouse that has been in multiple affairs and other infadelities along with financial abuse and they put it back on the other spouse. ? Both of us have childhood trauma more me than him. So do I need to address my childhood trauma then the betrayal trauma? The betrayal trauma is so hard

[@tammyspianostudio5120]

What is the name of the Patrick khan book she mentioned?

[@janafontoura]

I'm in a trauma bonding relationship in my marriage, currently getting divorced, but still have to deal with a toxic soon-to-be-ex-husband due to the children in common, in which case severing the relationship completely is not a choice. How to preserve myself in my healing process in this case?

[@deborahjholliday]

With you. Same journey for me.... after 37 years of marriage and 3 adult children. We are all healing individually and hoping Dad will too

[@jadalee6508]

What about if he doesn't own his part in the toxicity but unconsciously following and learning with changing for the better? But he's just behind in the growing???

[@natashagerlag568]

Excellent!!!

[@pattyholland6274]

You’re the best!!!

[@barbarapatton2377]

What you are saying makes sense. However this has been happening for 26 years and I only just recently learned and got wise enough I guess to realize this is a very sick situation and I am devastated feeling very down. However we are married and all of our assets together in one big bundle. I have no place to go to get away from him I do not know how I can make this happen. I’m 81 years old how can I do this. My pastor says that I need to make plans and get my act together immediately and get myself separated from him. I guess I’m wondering I would ask is it possible that I can get healed and still live in the same house with him. How would that work?any suggestions?

[@garayuaramirez]

Wow!

[@Tutume1111]

I was dating someone briefly and 3 times I let him go as didn't feel he was on the same page as me and disnt feel emotional investment as strong as it was on my side. It happened that once he decides to walk away saying "he did like me but it got too intense" I developed a strong trauma bond imagining him to be my prince charming.There is noone else in my life I can shift my attention onto but I find it difficult to let go even thou when I was with him I knew he wasn't the One for me and felt he was emotionally unavailable and not ready for the relationship I wanted . WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP MYSELF , PLEASE?

[@SSTIXX-lc9qd]

🙏🏻

[@treizereves]

I wish I could find this with spanish subtitles because I know several ladies who would benefit this in Central America

[@larabenson7716]

What body thearapy would you suggest?

[@Vickiehemphill]

The app will not let me register

[@charitynhope2012]

I see no link to the book you spoke of.

[@emmafisher8471]

Thanks for this one, very informative.

[@cogniacademy]

Hi Caroline & Team, you mentioned Dr Carnes book what are the details?

[@lauriecarr9483]

I also have looked for the book, it’s not coming up in my search. The details are not in the show notes. I think it was Dr Patrick Kahn

[@nicoleh6428]

22:00 51:05

[@noturbo]

i have been back twice since my last post time was 2 weeks ago it was even worse than ever now to break this which accepting the truth is helping with.

[@lauragreenhalgh5368]

Would it be possible for someone diagnosed with NPD to heal if they worked through their childhood trauma?

[@Emily-bm9xj]

From everything I've read, it appears like people w NPD rarely want to work through their stuff out of their own initiative, and it is usually the friends/family/partner and people in their social bubble who tend to drag them to therapy to initiate some kind of work on this. I guess there are probably exceptions here and there, but I've gotten the overwhelming sense that it is the people around the person w NPD who are suffering who often give them the ultimatum to go to therapy, and that because it is not actually motivated by the person themselves, they often resist, slack off or don't take it seriously and thus the effects are difficult to measure if there's no actual effort involved. I've seen the majority of specialists say basically that NPD is more or less there to stay and there's no way to fundamentally change it (I guess there's quite a different form of ego, self-imaging and modeling which kind of interrupts vulnerable and authentic self-reflection) just only to manage the symptoms of it, and interactions with people w NPD, and some rare self-help people and more spiritual people who believe that NPD is workable. I'm not an expert, just done a lot of sleuthing around to try to understand narcissistic tendencies bc it's so confusing and destabilizing to be around, especially when it's people you love. Wish whoever is question luck, strength and courage to be brave and work on the origins of the issues.

[@kashashaw79]

♡

[@tami1979]

Is there trauma bonding in a bdsm relationship?

[@sharonm.8411]

What is bdsm?

[@noturbo]

probably

[@sandyhill7514]

Is this toxic bonding done consciously?

[@sallykalan]

Yes

[@valeriewalkerwhite9525]

3 months is not enough time to heal from anything let alone narcissistic toxic traits...had she said 3 years, I would have had a bit of compasssion for her but 3 months...come on....

[@MP-gw5kw]

Seems like too short of time BUT I want to be optimistic! 🙂. These trauma bonds are not born via love. It’s a negative attachment that form due to something victims think they are lacking and therefore accept by way of conditioning- the subconscious has formed and programmed the pattern. If we work on the reprogramming of the mind it will help and speed up the healing process much quicker. I listen to reprogramming audios on KZbin every night. I may fall asleep but my mind is wide awake. Sending Positive and healing energy your way

[@marksimmons5995]

I get so flustered trying to listen to your podcasts that you email to me often and I haven’t figured out how to bypass you’re sales pitch on “how to start my own podcast” in which I have NO INTEREST in so until I figure that out I’ll listen

[@punpsjmerc-cx5lw]

Carolin i follow you too much i feel toxic i have to run good try on you behave so sad that you children can help you and you in basment so tramatic must be for the whole family kind regards from magdalena panek 12.5. 2024

[@allisonfitzpatrick460]

It is sad that you seem to have dropped the key to all of this...God.

[@siobhanmcgregor2557]

It's very revealing when people strangers neighbours start projecting their toxic relationships onto others such a non stop criticism and shame. They are living out their former marriages in a fledgling friendship and they don't even have enough self insight to realise they are doing it! ✂️ I won't be bullied by an anorexic NO way jose

[@BookmarkthisLPR]

There is power in the name of JESUS. There is power and deliverance in prayer. This is not a flesh and blood battle.

[@suni8891]

Amen. So true

[@lauriecarr9483]

Have you been delivered from a trauma bond relationship through the power of prayer?

[@BookmarkthisLPR]

@@lauriecarr9483 Yes- but it took me time to completely trust God with my whole situation. God is able. The blood of Jesus was shed for the sin in the world. To mend the brokenhearted and set the captives free. To collect all the broken pieces and make whole.

[@melvaharris7989]

This is the first time I have listened to Dr. Leal in a very long time. To my disappointment, I see that the teachings are no longer from a Biblical World View. As I listened to the breakdown about the young woman's issues around her toxic relationship, the message was clear that God was not considered in the picture, living outside marriage was not a concern and our thoughts then were not considered from the Word of God simply the world's view of who you were being impacted by and what that meant. After a short time of it I needed to move on to some other teachings because I seek to base my life on the Truth of the Word of God and since that is no longer Dr. Leaf's focus I knew the teachings would not work for me. Disappointed.

[@sharonm.8411]

Agree- I’m super disappointed also because I had just referred my adult daughter to her videos, thinking that she would at least get a Biblical perspective on this scientific info- Very bummed

[@ambermartin7096]

She’s a true Christian, trying to help all people no matter what their gods book is. She’s not alienating all the Not or not yet Christian people who need her.

[@noturbo]

i healed her so much she was able to leave me and go off with the new person to suck the life out of. she borderline personality disorder. i need to be grateful she is gone nearly killed me