Podcast 439: The One Ring to Rule Modern

[@svendejong8110]

After considering it a bit more, The One Ring is a bit like an extra turn spell that draws you more cards in future turns. I mean, opponent still gets their turn, but they can't really do anything to you.

[@WYKlaure]

They can kill your stuff. You are protected, they are not

[@Greg_Ulmer]

It's a fog not an extra turn lol

[@zenmaster8826]

@@Greg_Ulmer Also discard and lightning bold protection

[@rookermtg9321]

Reprieve has the upside of letting you tap out of blue and get them Mana Tithe style.

[@kennylong8580]

One ring actually reads : draw 3 cards, lose one life, you have protection from everything until your next turn. And that’s just what it does on its first turn. But also, haywire mite still exists and is a pretty good answers

[@djentleman37]

*"in the first two turns" you mean?

[@reyny2118]

No, he meant that by the next turn you have those 3 cards already available.

[@kennylong8580]

@@djentleman37 from mf1 turn x to mf1 turn x+1

[@zotha]

The One Ring is nothing like taking the turn off, Protection AND you get an immediate card draw.

[@francoistestard2407]

3 cards lose only 1 life and protection 1 turn 😮

[@shrewder]

And the crew didn't even mention that in Modern decks, you can reset the counters on the card by casting a second copy and legend-ruling the original card out of play. And while you're doing that, you get another turn of Pro.

[@fromadhdtodndtomtg]

Saw a guy put sheoldred and on ring into play... I was like "well, pretty sure he can find an answer now"

[@SevrianU]

Protection from everything is just glorified fog. You Board can be wiped, global effects still hit you, Yawgmoth combo still drains you to death, not to mention Questing beast screws you big time. The one Ring is good but not US$60.00 good

[@francoistestard2407]

@@SevrianU did you played the card already ?

[@stevenpoche6988]

The Mirkwood Bats thing, Dana Roach of EDHRec made a tweet saying "Yes, Alex, I'll take 'Cards that probably shouldn't have been printed' for $1000" with a picture of Mirkwood Bats. Someone responded "if only there was a way to interact with it" with pictures of lightning bolts. Then they got into a really petty twitter argument with your mom jokes in it.

[@efnfen]

Sounds like Dana Roach. Arrogant, often wrong and thin skinned.

[@jennietsai1260]

EDH players when they see a 4 mana 2/3 with no ETB: 🤯🤯🤯

[@MAXFightMan]

I work for a game store that focuses on singles. We cracked thousands and thousands of packs and we found that even with some showcase slot weirdness, nazghuls were about as common as any uncommon, but with 9 different versions. So as long as people want specific versions, they basically have a 1/9 pull rate of any other uncommon.

[@hreiarevarsson7900]

The Mirkwood Bats reference is just the rules committe blaming every symptom instead of the disease(dockside extortionist)

[@taeasakura]

"I've drafted enough, back to honkai star rail" This is the most I have related to Richard ever

[@Sean.Thomas2]

Watching aspiring spikes videos on the one ring make me realize how broken and easily built around it is, even playing things like twiddle or very low cost reducers is entirely worth it cuz the payoff is essentially drawing three four five six seven cards. It doesn't matter if you take the damage because you should just win if you can draw this many cards

[@herrerabeast]

"We may have underrated the set a little" - understatement of the year. Just their analysis of The One Ring alone was making me question their opinions on the set across the board.

[@salmonking007]

The people freaking out about Mirkwood Bats are the same ones making comments like, "Mirkwood Bats makes Dockside Extortionist insane!" Dockside should have eaten a ban a long time ago, but it continues to persist to the point that it overshadows every other treasure producer to have been printed in recent years. Cavern-Hoard Dragon is a potentially 2 mana 6/6 flying, trample haste card that can generate multiple treasures, but is totally overshadowed by the goblin.

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

The One Ring says "Take an extra turn after this one, draw three cards, you lose 3 life" if you read it correctly. 4 colorless mana for that is really strong

[@GTAjedi]

I feel the One Ring should've had the text "A deck can only contain one copy of The One Ring".

[@Kopekemaster]

That would have actually been great, it should have. Basically makes it unplayable anywhere other than EDH though.

[@Shimatzu95]

@@Kopekemaster dont forget karn, a single card is often enough

[@dee-wreck]

@@Kopekemaster Unplayable? Nah. Every deck would still jam 1 copy of it.

[@benjiboy1337]

@@Kopekemaster I disagree, if it's good enough to always run 4, then it's definitely good enough to jam 1 in those same decks, and you'd be happy whenever you draw it.

[@benjiboy1337]

They really should have - it's flavorful, even more so than being legendary, like there's only ONE in existence.

[@delathenleso5793]

Mirkwood Bats eating a ban before Thassa's Oracle or Dockside Extortionist would cause me to completely ignore the "official" ban list at the Commander League I run in favor of a more interesting and useful list.

[@ironpage]

I think the fact that in Clash they have house banned Dockside for a while, they don't see why some people are freaking out about Mirkwood Bats. Personally I don't have any issue with the card but I won't be surprised if they play a game against like Phil and he plays the Bats alongside Academy Manufacturor in a Food/Clue deck and then they realize why people freaked out.

[@reyny2118]

Dockside is the thing that should be bannedy, though. Mirkwood Bats is just a good win con. There are literally hundreds of better cards...

[@ironpage]

@@reyny2118 Completely agree. Again, I have no problem with the card itself. Seems sweet in aristocrats, gives a source of direct damage to food or clue tribal.

[@addictedtomints9433]

Can't wait for Wilds of Eldraine o.o Hoping for some artifact adventures and adventure synergies overall! Maybe even an adventure pioneer deck could compete. Ahhh.

[@ryanquinn1257]

Oo I like that artifact adventures and sagas

[@petersteiman2443]

Maybe the person playing four Reprieve in the Creativity deck was in a meta heavy with Cavern of Souls?

[@commanderpower99]

Two podcasts ago the title was "will anything from lotr see play in Modern?"... i guess something did, huh?

[@elijahwalker323]

you also got to remember that there is a ring in ever bundle and gift bundle. There going to keep reprinting the bundles as well.

[@Shimatzu95]

Anytime cards are considered to be banned in commander -> me: point at smothering tide, rhystic study and the top 50 or so cards on the edhrec salt list.

[@Srynan]

Imagine, in a format with Dockside Extortionist, now The One Ring and tons of other broken cards, we are discussing to ban Mirkwood Bats 😂

[@representativejoints1188]

I've recently built a Gluntch Time lifegain combo deck. Scurry Oak now combos with so much more. Ivy Lane, Rosie Cotton, Treebeard. Soul sisters and aetherflux to the dome. Lots of white weenie food and tokens synergy to still play if the biggest combos are dismantled.

[@jacobhawkins6612]

I think it will be hilarious if The One Ring makes it to where people bring in Narset Parter of Veils and Notion Thief. Great hate cards to beat it without removing it.

[@coreyburton8]

I can't wait for 4 players to all have the 'one' ring on the battlefield in commander

[@RaijQuit]

Bats can do some crazy damage if you make and sacrifice a bunch of treasures, but the real problem here is dockside, not the bats themselves.

[@Kopekemaster]

Regarding Mirkwood Bats, I believe the first person I *saw* say that it should be banned was either a member of the RC or the CAG. I don't think I've seen anyone else say it (though I'm sure some have). But I would guess that's a large part of why the RC is even talking about it.

[@TheSpunYarn]

The One Ring synergizes with itself I think. You draw 6 cards, you drew another One Ring. Taking too much damage? cast another one for protection and sac the one with counters on it.

[@SmokeADig]

Good morning gentlemen!

[@DaveTheNoob]

Remember when Bootleggers Stash was the discussion to be banned? I dont think ive ever seen it cast once lol

[@gigawarman12]

I've seen it being used, but it's far from broken

[@that-one-genz7835]

not this coming out at 6am lmao ill watch this when i wake up though! too high energy to fall asleep to🥲

[@anythingarax]

Also to double down, I find it ridiculous that anyone could be calling for a ban of a 2/3 flier at 4 mana that has the ability of a blood artist

[@froggystrap1232]

Mirkwood Bat is not ban worthy but still a scary card

[@jholopez1993]

Richard almost sent me to the hospital when he said "Lord of the ips" 😂😂😂

[@andrewgolubiewski3463]

Bowmasters seems like a good incremental value piece in the waste not deck that's using the sanitarium to make the opponent draw.

[@scotthuston2850]

@crim punk never dies! It just stands near the back

[@jerryturgin6583]

I think people discount the ring emblem giving a creature skulk, it is a very good form of evasion

[@davidwipperfurth8465]

Remember even if your opponent has an answer for the ring, you still 2-for-1'ed them by drawing a card (and not even losing the life for it). If they want to "punish" you for playing card draw on turn four, how? You have protection so their beat down gets a late start. Also, since you don't fear crack-backs, you can freely swing all-in before playing it, which isn't exactly taking a turn off.

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

What if you remove The One Ring in response to the first activation? They can't put a counter on it, and the last known quantity of burden counters on it is zero. That would be a one-for-one exchange, no?

[@zenmaster8826]

@@TheAverageGuyTAG But what can do that besides an already in the field haywire might? 🤔

[@jasonkorf7700]

I think it's too early to call for bans, especially for The One Ring, but I do think it highlights an issue with Wizards three week ban window for new cards. In that it might be too small of a window to get a good idea if a card is immediately ban worthy or not. I do think The One Ring is most gonna be a new Modern Staple but I think we should see how everyone responds to it before any serious banning discussions. Also, being able to get around uncounterable stuff is why Reprieve and Subtlety are seeing play in Modern. So you guys are on the right track on why people were trying out Reprieve.

[@ericfletcher7046]

I'm pretty sure if it isn't obvious by then, it's not something the three week ban window is for. Three weeks was plenty for Oko and Lurrus.

[@jasonkorf7700]

@ericfletcher7046 oko was banned around 6 weeks after its release. Lurrus in Legacy, and at the time, Vintage was banned pretty quickly. However, it took over two years to ban it in Modern and Pioneer.

[@ericfletcher7046]

@@jasonkorf7700 I am probably being overly optimistic, but the way I interpreted the three week ban announcement is that they would have banned Oko and pre-nerf Lurrus. But, full disclosure, I don't play modern and my only exposure to it is really this channel so I could just be totally wrong.

[@dragonbreath34]

I think there will be a conversation soon about the ring being too good in commander. It nearly fits into the Sol Ring level of ubiquity

[@ilyafoskin]

I would be good if Universes Beyond (UB) cards were removed from all magic formats and made its own format because then as WotC focuses more on UB sets and they share more release space with classic Magic, we can ignore UB entirely and the amount of classic Magic product will decrease to pre-2019 levels before it got out of hand

[@rickrollin4570]

Aspiring spike was untapping it multiple times a turn and drawing his whole deck

[@ranmuke]

Forge anew the binding blade.

[@damienjohnson3450]

Commander players will see one of their opponents with 8 blood tokens while they have like 2 treasures, then cast "Over The Top"(5RR, Sorcery, Each player reveals a number of cards from the top of their library equal to the number of nonland permanents they control, puts all permanent cards they revealed this way onto the battlefield, and puts the rest into their graveyard.) and proceed to rage scoop after the opponent who clearly had the most permanents use's the resources they gave them for no reason goes to try and win.

[@aydjent]

Wait on buying the one ring as it's a promo card in the gift bundles that release in the next couple of weeks. Supply should refill

[@robman102]

Also the regular bundles that released with the set.

[@FrankPalombo]

Artifact Blast is a 1 mana answer to the one ring.

[@hinatasninetailedfox]

I think my only issue with cards like Orcish Bowmasters is similar to my issues with cards like Hullbreacher where there's a world where that effect is fine but at that low of a mana cost it seems crazy. It blows my mind that two mana can be strong enough to win the game on it's own. I miss less powerful cards honestly. I feel like a boomer but I miss when you had to really reach into the rare binder to find synergies for your deck instead of there being so many cards that are just obvious auto includes. #MakeMysticSnakeGoodAgain

[@jerryturgin6583]

Part of the reason is because it has to be aggressively costed for modern/legacy or it won't see actual play

[@hinatasninetailedfox]

@@jerryturgin6583 I know but it feels like if they didn't have to design with that in mind and you would just occasionally get a legacy hit once every couple sets, then commander would be slower paced. I get it though. I just like equating big mana to big plays. It blows my mind what two mana gets you nowadays.

[@jerryturgin6583]

@hinatasninetailedfox I mean to be fair, the set was supposed to be one that was designed for 60 card competitive formats that's why it was made modern legal

[@jackl8025]

​@@jerryturgin6583the issue is that when Wizards "designed the set with 60 card formats in mind" it feels more like they designed one or two cards for Modern due to being undercosted, and the rest is commander stuff. Not every card needs to be Modern/Legacy playable in a modern legal set, and it feels like they push cards by undercosting them, which is what OP was talking about I think

[@seandun7083]

My main question is why they felt the need to give it an etb. It would still be fine without that but would be more skill testing by asking if it's worth continuing to hold it up to wait for card draw or just flashing in on end step rather than giving you a trigger anyways and being a stronger resolute reinforcements. Giving it the etb also means it has the problem where in a mirror they can shoot each other and so the person who plays theirs second (or draws more) wins when that is previously why they have done things like say "non dragon" on glory bringer in the past. IMO it probably would have been fine if they had removed the etb or made it cost 1 more and given it +1/+1 to compensate (also making it harder for them to kill each other so the answer to your staple isn't just play more of that staple).

[@TheSpunYarn]

Also the RC doesn't normally ban stuff for being "top strong". that isn't how the Commander banlist works.

[@OdinBorson_]

"anyone with an opinion can voice it" - Richard 2023

[@TenshiArix]

I don't think murkwood bats is worth banning but to be fair, I don't think Seth gave it enough credit. Just think about it's synergy with treasure or eldrazi scion as an example, that's pinging everyone for 2 just for cracking a treasure. One of the best versions of an aristocrat card imo

[@coldtruth9431]

I like how Richard always shows up and and gives general feedback on gameplay and it’s obvious he hasn’t played in years lol

[@jackl8025]

Even if you're right, this is embarrassingly rude.

[@Sean.Thomas2]

Limited for the set honestly felt kind of all over the place. For sealed I really felt the lack of hard removal there's a ton of bounce or tucking. Also some of the commander focused mythics and rares are almost impossible to beat and limited their card advantages too good. Like call of the ring I don't know how you're supposed to beat the card advantages can generate and also how fast it temps you.

[@Mr.Kronk2]

If Mirkwood bats needs to be banned, than they might as well ban every single card with a triggered ability due to the potential that it can go infinite and ruin someone's "fun".

[@lucasfigueroa6165]

Is "Orcish Bowmasters" a silver bullet put into this set to counter "The One Ring"

[@benjiboy1337]

The One Ring wouldn't be good if it just drew cards, but it gives you basically Teferi's Protection the turn you play it. 10:52 you're not taking turn 4 off to play it, not really. You're playing a cantrip and a fog and becoming untargetable for a round and preventing any damage-based combo from killing you - it might as well be a Time Warp that keeps drawing cards later in the game.

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

$25 for my One Ring by going halvsies with a friend on a bundle box and giving him everything in the bundle except the panorama cards. Sure, I am also giving him an Orcish Bowmasters on top of that, but I opened two Bowmasters already, so giving it away to a friend is easy.

[@anythingarax]

I saw Crim's historic deck with bow masters and unironically think that card is cracked, definitely a multi format staple

[@andrewgolubiewski3463]

Mirkwood bats is probably on the list because of how pushed they made treasure tokens.

[@moox100]

Maybe if the One Ring applied burden counters to the player rather than itself so it couldn't be reset by bouncing it that would help make it not as completely safe and easy to use edit: alternatively it applies burden counters to itself and the player, and you take damage equal to your burden counters and draw according to the ring

[@Palidram]

RC are such a huge joke. Bowmasters and Bats being on the list, but Narset doesnt get talked about? At least Bowmasters kills me. Sheldon should just keep quiet after the Mother of Machines outcry.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

We all know Orc Bowflex is good. The real gas is the bat. 2 damage to everyone for each treasure is real good. Not ban worthy, but good.

[@hellproof2379]

If they ban the bat or the orc before thassa .. then I lose any faith I have left (coming from a kess thoracle player )

[@LarsIsReal]

The One Ring is "spiking" in price

[@rickrollin4570]

It'll go back down. Don't fall for the hype

[@TheAverageGuyTAG]

​@@rickrollin4570 The fact that it ended up going UP in price despite it being guaranteed in Bundlr Boxes is mindboggling.

[@rickrollin4570]

@@TheAverageGuyTAG yup. Dumb people are in large supply paying those prices. I've made the mistake before of buying a new card at 40+ dollars, and having it go down to 5 bucks before. Never again, just wait till the hype dies down, and packs get opened. That card will be 10 bucks, max. Especially once it gets banned in modern

[@mattm7798]

With the one ring, I look at it like: 4 mana fog until your next turn. Turn 5 pay 2 life draw two cards. If the card is an issue, it's because of the pro everything. An easy way to beat the one ring is just be aggressive, but the pro everything stops that. Banable...we'll see.

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

It’s easy to underestimate everything when your brain has been rotted by the 1 drop monkey.

[@elijahwalker323]

with the one ring you can still get drained though right, such as each opponent loses 1 life.

[@seandun7083]

Each opponent can get you but target opponent can't.

[@WitherFang]

I want 4 rings in my Omnath list... I proxied it just to test it, and I don't feel that Omnath is useful anymore except pitching to evoke elementals because I rather cast the One Ring..

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

Samwise Gamgee, the consummate gardener, being used in a deck for the purpose of destroying the land feels like the most laughably horrifying flavour fail ever. Play it.

[@crimsonking905]

Pithing needle lol

[@jeanventura5366]

My suggestion: read cards for people that just listen, specially when they are new.

[@Thewallace7347]

The only reason to even look at murkwood bats is because of dockside, so yes murkwood bats broke dockside

[@jerryturgin6583]

No discussion of stern scolding? It's 1 mana and hits drc ledger shredder ragavan any mana dork grist bowmaster yawgmoth esper Sentinel stoneforge puresteel paladin solitude grief seasoned pyromancer dauthi voidwalker magus of the moon every single creature in burn every non titan creature in amulet titan all the merfolk and all the creatures in fringe decks like prowess and urza and affinity, it's the best 1 mana counterspell we have seen in probably a decade and just no one is talking about it

[@theLogicblade]

yeah the one ring is absolutely not taking a turn off, it's more like (4) The One Ring skips your opponent's next turn.

[@roshandala]

Crim is in his 30s?? In my head he was like 25...

[@efnfen]

Crim was born in 1909

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

If orcish bowmaster got banned in commander, it would be the most egregious cedh concession since the campaigning for Flash’s ban.

[@damienjohnson3450]

No one played Flash in casual, so that was way more fair then banning bowmaster.

[@SilverAlex92]

I know right?! Like if it was something like Notion Thief that stopped the draw I would understand it. But like it just bolts you if you drew three cards, that doesnt sounds like ban worthy in EDH. In 1v1 sure its strong af, but in a 4 player game? Nah. If we banning two drops in EDH I can think of an extortionist goblin that likes docks.

[@jamespatterson5644]

@@damienjohnson3450 I did. played Flash Hulk tool box answers, no combo, in my Muldrotha control deck

[@damienjohnson3450]

@@jamespatterson5644 0.1 % of players is alot!

[@yarrrthekraken]

God I hate universes beyond. I don't want to play against Gandalf or Bilbo or Sauron's Orcs. If they ever make a standard legal UB set, I'm fully out.

[@felipeguidolin1055]

I can understand hating the named characters, but the orcs and the bats can easily pass off as a normal magic card.

[@jerryturgin6583]

I had a legacy game where they looped samwise and wasteland in dnt and I lost super super hard

[@grin_of_grimmsnarl1333]

I have to strongly disagree with Richard about Limited not feeling like LotR. I'd argue that's the best and most flavorful space to play the set! Having Bilbo and the One Ring on the board at the same time feels silly. I even had a game where i used Cast Into Fire targeting MY OWN ONE RING! I didn't win that game (as you could imagine) but it still stands out to me. How flavorful of a set it is when you can execute a limited decision to try and stabilize and also do something on the storyboard as well! I've never played another Limited set as flavorful.

[@andrewbrock3675]

Modern isn't a turn 4 format. Occasionally a deck gets the nuts and gets ya, but the myth that a ragavan hit is the game, or that the games over turn 3 is laughable. Modern is a great format. So many options.

[@Jamie261090]

One Ring + Harmless Offering Against the Odds, please.

[@garettallen4963]

Bow masters is fine

[@shrewder]

I bet Mirkwood Bats is getting so much attention because the Professor's Commander evaluation of the set listed the Bats as the most powerful card of the set.

[@leodalkey651]

LOTR has been out a while now and few predicted that all the one ring was gonna do is force everyone to run black so they could drop a bowmaster. So now everybody runs black and it's clearly best in scam where Grief can get two for one on discard spells, and Fury duhhhh... Your gonna be seeing a lot more RB Scam and the janky resolve 1 card win the game decks, Creativity obviously but also old jank like Bogles. Burn too...

[@jacobbucht992]

Gain protection from everything

[@joesantos2455]

Sam Gamgee is a scam?! A SCAMGEE?

[@efnfen]

Scamwise Gamgee

[@jsonart5317]

Don't ban, restrict it to 1 Ring

[@jerryturgin6583]

That is only a thing in vintage

[@TheEvolver311]

As someone who has played since Ice Age was released it is pretty crazy how the views on bannings in the game have changed. I don't think that it is solely that cards are more pushed now either. I'm confident that if the social media platforms that exist now existed while original Innistrad was Standard Legal people would be calling for Geist of Saint Traft's head. You'll see people complain about completely countervailing concepts like "MHx is like forced rotation in Modern" but also "we should ban cards w,x,y & z just to shake up Modern" which seems indiscernible from a forced rotation. Or deck A,B & C are clearly the best decks in Standard we need to ban them out of the top tier, why just cause; forget the fact that for entirety of Type 2's existence the format has more often than not been dominated by 2-4 decks in the T1 of competitively viable options. Maybe I am wrong and my energy would be better spent complaining for bannings until we manage to make Frenetic Efreet an all star Legacy staple and if its not its a clear sign that every card produced since 1996 is clearly pushed busted garbage.

[@rainmaker709]

I know that this comment is late but, yes y'all hard whiffed on the One Ring. But y'all hard whiff a lot. None of you are good players. You are entertaining players. That is why I watch. Consider that the going rate in magic is that 1 card costs 1 life. The One Ring gives you 2 cards for 1 life. Yes, it is killing you but over the course of 5 turns it has done 10 damage but has drawn you 21 cards. If you have drawn 21 extra cards and have still not figured out how to win, you are doing it wrong.

[@TwiztidHeir]

Bow master doesn't stop draws, just punishes them. People get mad when you interact in EDH, to that I say, stay mad.

[@coldtruth9431]

Mosh pit is for a bunch of betas..

[@notjake2089]

Bats makes every treasure deal 6 damage to the table... I mean, its pretty strong...

[@jerryturgin6583]

I wonder if there is a 2 mana red creature that is broken in commander that is clearly the more powerful and ban worthy card...

[@rickrollin4570]

The one ring will be banned in modern. See what aspiring spike did with it recently. It will be a $10 dollar card

[@adamwarehime6444]

The one ring isn't that good an it's slow

[@maxwellbalkema5388]

I have HATED this limited format it’s very stale and boring

[@killerpinkhair]

Re: mirkwood bats, it's not even as broken as mayhem devil or cauldron! Insane