PoE 2 - Crafting Feels BAD - Here's Why | Feedback Video

[@Lolcohol]

Minor clarification: SOME Omens can in fact be comboed, but not in the same way as you could combo something like Multimod + Prefixes Cannot be Changed + Suffixes Cannot be Changed. It seems the combos that are allowed are ones that affect the same Currency type, which has limited use beyond saving some Omens versus allowing more control over the craft PS. Yes I noticed when I said "I want Fire Res" it already had a Suffix :D

[@JtotheDoubleL]

it honestly just sounds like you want poe 1 crafting ported into poe 2. have you ever thought that they dont want people to have complete deterministic control over crafts in this game? Omens seems like a decent middle ground. I already see mirror items being crafted with omens. I and my guildmates dont want alts or scours in the game at all. They promote degenerate hideout warrior crafting, spamming thousands of alts and basically never having to enter maps. You can still do that in this game but we are all spending much more time in maps in this game than we do in poe 1.

[@9sIota]

​@@JtotheDoubleL PoE 1 crafting is about 10% deterministic and 90% gambling. It's just that the gambling in it is much less tedious and more targetted than in poe 2, outside of alt spamming. And let's stop pretending that alt spams are the end-all-be-all crafts that everyone was doing, the most common crafts were essence+fractures, harvest rerolls, or fossils, into metamod + reforge or veiled. Eldritch rolling was also super common, and let's obviously not get into influenced or more complicated crafts. Also, what's the issue if someone wants to play the game in a different way? I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I doubt it'll be off the mark: if someone said they hated the "slow and methodical" combat of poe 2, you would tell them to go play poe 1. So I'll tell you the same thing but less extreme: if you don't want to hideout warrior, just go run maps! You don't have to do something you hate!

[@ginz9r]

Omens are a non factor at these prices

[@morfea123]

Not a fan of POE1 crafting in general beyond basic bench to fix early resistances. But even I think POE2 "crafting" is dumbed down and too basic.

[@Manzanahh]

​@JtotheDoubleL trash crafting system, i bet you and your guild could barely afford 1 omen let alone waste them on instant failure states. you are spending more time on the treadmill doing less, wild anyone can support it and not be joking

[@warpath375__]

Runes are an illusion for the bench craft. If you can't resocket them, then what's the point?

[@monkeyjamzter]

and theres no higher tiers as you progress through the game either just soul cores

[@NekotTheBrave]

@@monkeyjamzter There's no higher tiers, but you also get new gear which updates your requirements which means you end up with runes that no longer matter which could have been replaced with something that did.

[@acksawblack]

Its so in campaign you can use them to up your resists like you would do with the bench fairly obvious

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

There are also a ton missing that would be needed to pretend it's a bench craft replacement. But that would dilute the pool like crazy.

[@ikashibimauler]

Yep, unremovable runes was a terrible decision. Just terrible.

[@Daethbane]

So I started POE in Kalandra. Needless to say learning crafting at least a little bit was giga intimidating. So when I heard they were simplifying it and could "expect to be crafting all the time in Act 1" I was excited to attempt something new. I legit feel like my legs have been cut off and I'm crawling around bleeding. Plus, the simple value equation is brain dead, "Spend 3-4 exalts to get a item that will probably brick or spend 4 exalts getting four new pieces of gear that are WAY better for now via trade?". I expect they want to start slow to not need to nerf, but damn.

[@nik_ms]

99% of my craft attempts where a sink of currency that in the end resulted on a shit item, as you said, trade site diff.

[@mentalvibrations8128]

Exactly! I’m too afraid to exalt slam because they are too rare and valuable. It’s much better to keep grinding and buy a good item off of Joe Shmo on the trade site.

[@danyalraza9707]

You get an average of 4 ex per map

[@doombybbr]

@@mentalvibrations8128 Exalt slam is literally suboptimal. Suboptimal in the extreme. Even the steps of crafting are usually suboptimal. If you use 3 regals you have already spent an exalt. Unless you get 3 bases with really good rolls then recombinate them and get lucky on the recombinator - unless that happens, you are actually spending less money buying a 1 ex rare. In PoE1 you could make a 10 chaos rare with a few chaos invest, in fact a lot of money strats involved that, but in PoE2 nobody wants to actually do crafting in order to make money because every single strat is money negative.

[@mentalvibrations8128]

@@danyalraza9707 lol what maps are you running? My yellow T14’s drop 1 or maybe 2 a map. Still no divines. Plus my next upgrade gear is gonna be 1 or 2 divine per piece. So wasting exalts on worthless slams for mana and light radius doesn’t sound smart.

[@mentalvibrations8128]

@@doombybbr oh no that’s even worse cause I regal slam for minion skills all the time 😂 iv never actually checks the price of regals, so yea wasting even more currency on no shot slams.

[@frostyiv1509]

4 weeks ago: "POE2 crafting looks excellent" 4 weeks later: ouh....no

[@Lolcohol]

I was wrong xd

[@Nukestarmaster]

All the deterministic methods of crafting are extremely rare and locked behind endgame.

[@dpolenz79]

If they turn this into the ultimate nerd sessions that they were before then they completely fucked up. People using 20k alts for one stat is not crafting.

[@Berry-Dingle]

@@dpolenz79 using your logic, using 20k exalts and bricking 20k items isn't crafting either but I guess you cant see that.

[@NekotTheBrave]

@@Nukestarmaster And they aren't even really that good. Like what was shown as an example, I though was going to at least be somewhat common, and it's not. They're all rare af.

[@Matok1]

The main problem is you'll spend way more of your orbs trying to make your own items vs just buying what you need off trade, and honestly that feels pretty bad. Feels like I'm 'wasting exalts' if I use them for crafting anything. I'd argue that the most basic 'crafting' in POE2 isn't even crafting, they're id orbs that reveal one additional random mod per use, transmutes, augments, and regals are less useful than a scroll of identification because at least the scroll reveals all the mods on the item in one go.

[@JordaanM]

I would be interested to see what the downside would be to massively inflating the Exalt droprate. If you were getting exalts at the same rate as augments, for example, then the rate of decent 5-6 affix items would increase, but a far greater proportion of those would be self-crafted. As it stands, even if I have a decent 2-affix magic item, I'm hesitant to regal-exalt it, because the odds of it being a 'waste' of the exalt compared to just trade-siting make any crafting a bad value proposition. At this point, endgame players have already moved over to trading in Divines, so this should really only significantly affect the campaign / early mapping.

[@TwirlingFern]

Exactly. They said they want people to craft. They should give 30x more exalts or some huge number more if we are to actually craft. Make them drop as much as the two basic ones. It’s wasting them when I can instead buy something from the trade instead.

[@arvydas5017]

Then slamming 500000000k alterations and then using recombinator is not crafting either

[@phant0mdummy]

I barely get them, and when I do, they roll some trash like light radius and I scrap the item. I had a perfect 2 stat blue for my monk. Made it yellow, got a mid tier roll. Added another line got light radius. Junked it.

[@NhuQuynh-nv7fp]

Found this hard way lol after spending like 20 ex trying to craft a crossbow .. took me 2ex to find a better stat item than what I make

[@Kromheim]

I really don't know what GGG was thinking in general. I don't remember a single instance in PoE1 were players said they want more RNG with their progress. Maps going back to Conquerors time. Crafting going back pre Forsaken Masters

[@destroyermaker]

They're resetting the power to zero because they know they have a decade of power creep to plan for

[@alexzephyris1455]

Conqueror's time was perfectly fine. It's more akin to Shaper-Elder days

[@matthewe1475]

you talking like this is the full game. poe is a never-ending game. its not even out yet. just wait this is just a taste and to ease people in as they make the changes

[@ruibarian5187]

You either have loot coming from the ground, or loot coming from crafting. If you can ever, at any point, consistently craft items, you will never pick up items off the ground. They chose items on the ground, and then you craft to see if you can make them slightly better. I think most people prefer this to the PoE 1 crafting system.

[@armandosillones2643]

They want to improve base items value so people buy stash tabs, that's evident with the removal or scour orb.

[@BobMotster]

Because it's gambling. And, as you said, the end result is people are just buying most of their gear. Well, damn it, isn't the whole point of ARPGs to slay monsters for your gear, not buy it?

[@Snarbalax]

I haven't traded with another player once and all my gear is from killing monsters.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

If you’re slaying monsters that drop the currency you use to buy the gear. You are slaying monsters for your gear. Also you can still slay monsters to get the uniques for your build. You are so ignorant

[@papasquatch2432]

How do you get away with calling someone ignorant but when I do it KZbin immediately deletes my comment. 😂​@@alexbrestowski4131

[@JayBigDadyCy]

Yes and no.... Part of the addiction to PoE for a lot of people is making currency to buy really good items. Yes some people love crafting, but not everyone. I am definitely one of those people who will craft when necessary, but I'd rather blast maps to buy gear.

[@xXVintersorgXx]

@@JayBigDadyCy for me slaying monsters should be like pulling the lever on a slot machine. Also the items you're buying on trade are actually dropped or rng luck too. Just not yours lol

[@DavidWoodMusic]

I misread this title as "10 steps to crafting" and thought "bro there aren't even that many steps"

[@LittleRadicalThinker]

Slam chaos

[@psychobear10]

Find white base, try to hit good mods cry when you get trash repeat. Or buy half decent gear (for poe 2 terms) for super ramp prices

[@mentalvibrations8128]

Someone should make a super sarcastic hypelord video about the 3 amazing steps to crafting

[@craigbailey4051]

Fingers crossed they have more crafting currencies lined up for leagues.

[@LittleRadicalThinker]

@@craigbailey4051 hahahaha🙄🙄

[@Darqion]

I'm taking my time (rerolled once i hit act 3 first time and now only act 3 cruel) and crafting during campaign has just been a joke. You find basically no currency (in numbers you'd be wiilling to burn during levelling) outside of trans/augs and you arent going to be burning your hand full of exalts/regals on a 2% gamble that you'd hit something decent. I have a 0% success rate of a good outcome, i've had some "usable" ones where i hit a T1 resists, which is terrible, but better than accuracy or light radius. What i miss most so far, is just the ability to fix some crap outside of RNG floor loot. I needed strength to use some boots i found, but i couldnt grab it on the passive tree because i basically needed all the int on there to even use my spells. At the end, the boots sat in my inventory for nearly 40 levels, and then i had the strength i needed. They were still the best boots i had found, so i am currently wearing them, but not being able to buy a 25 strength amulet from a vendor, craft some strength on one of my items, or the lack of +30 nodes on the tree just makes it so im stat starved nearly all the time. I basically dread finding the next tier of spell gem, since im not sure i can afford the int cost. I feel 100% railroaded to the trade site with how bad my loot has been and having no other option to influence my resists or stats. Why is there no stuff dropping with decent life and at least 1 resist? Is it just me ? im still wearing lvl 20 gloves with 30 life and 18 resist, since it's the highest stats ive had on gloves so far. which is just sad

[@arckmage5218]

I'm wearing tons of low level gear, because the loot sucks and the "crafting" sucks even more. I'm just barely into maps and it's tedious.

[@holymolythejabroni9040]

I’m a little shocked at how little thought was put into a LOT of foundational systems here. They took years figuring out good systems in PoE1. And they work great. And inexplicably, those systems aren’t here. I don’t think GGG even understands why PoE1 works anymore.

[@acksawblack]

Thats what runes are for

[@acksawblack]

Also you need to be checking vendors

[@begaking4304]

Yeah you currently unless your a full time streamer cannot play this game SSF unless you want to hit endgame maps maybe by the time EA ends lol

[@rozero123459gnh]

I'm doing Solo Self Found and it feels genuinely AWFUL using my exalts, constantly failing to get even serviceable stats. And then thinking about how great the gear could have been if i had just went to the trade site. This would be fine if i was just missing out on "power", but the reality is that i'm missing out on basic stats/resists. Without the crafting bench i'm constantly short 20INT or 20STR, 20% cold res etc. And the WORST feeling is that i've found an upgrade, but i CANT USE IT because i now have to switch 2-3 other pieces of gear due to the web of Stats/Resists/runes and after figuring it all out my "upgrade" is now a sidegrade due to the sub-optimal gear i had to swap out to fix stats/resists/runes again. Hopefully all these blindingly obvious steps back in quality of life are all due to GGG rushing out the game, because there's so much good stuff in PoE2.

[@murderycatdoll1380]

Yeah agree! Play Ssf myself and you just don't get enough.... that's frustrating.

[@Nukestarmaster]

I've been playing a quasi-SSF (I'm in trade league, but I've never bought anything) and halfway through Act 3 I've hit a _massive_ wall. It's bloody miserable.

[@DriftVibe114]

I mean you probably don’t wanna hear it but SSF is a very significant handicap in either POE game. The game was designed to use the trade system and is a major part of progression. Personally i think trying to play SSF or hard core right now in early access is kinda just a dumb idea because there are still a lot of changes that need to be made and balancing to be done by the devs so you should have probably gotten the hint that you weren’t gonna have a good time in SSF within the first few days and just rerolled into trade league before you put in to much time. That being said i do think the crafting system is definitely missing some stuff and needs some improvements before full launch and by that time the game should be balanced enough that SSF is a viable game mode.

[@murderycatdoll1380]

@DriftVibe114 I personally am just not a person that wants to trade and i hate have one bank for every char. That stresses me out like hell (mental shit going on there 😅). I "need" every char to have his own bank and own progression. That's why i choose Ssf. I don't wanna trade in this games to move forward, i wanna play the game, get a "decent" amount of mats on the way. But yeah sadly this game is designed like that and my way of playing will be frustrating if they don't change drops in Ssf. Like the Game but this might be not for me.

[@DriftVibe114]

@@murderycatdoll1380 understandable, id really recommend giving the trade site a chance. It looks really daunting as a new player to use but its a lot more intuitive then you might think as well as a good way to free up all the clutter in your stash. even of you don’t want to use it to buy stuff, selling is a great way to get the currency you need for upgrading and you don’t need to use the site at all to do it. Other than that id say just wait for launch and im sure the experience will be far better in SSF then it is now

[@alexbrestowski4131]

No crafting bench was a maaaasive blunder. So many new players would have had a more enjoyable time in the campaign if they could use crafting bench as a stat bandaid

[@eddyram4932]

That’s really my only hurdle as a first time PoE player😂 right now I’m running around in act 3 of the “hard” campaign with negative fire res because noting I have is an upgrade. I really don’t want to have to be forced to buy items off someone else, partly because I want to progress on my own and also because the trade site is garbage in and of itself. They really need to do something to fix the current crafting and if they won’t, at least make drops better. There’s no way I am lvl 62 and getting lvl 15 drops in act 3 of the “hard” campaign.

[@Sorain1]

Yeah. Having holes in your basics like resistances really hurts and the ability to do something about it basically isn't there. Your lucky or your screwed.

[@juozasmalaskevicius3634]

Last epoch crafting system is by far the best among ARPGs it is so engaging I use it from the very beginning to the very end. Crafting potential and legendary potential is the best idea ever. LE solved the problem of poe1 where you sometimes have to use 20k alts and poe2 problem with one shot gambling like crafting you have several tries. And this feels amazing. Also exalted affixes help to keep the chase and crafting alive till the very end. GGG tries to solve that with item "tiers" that's the step in the right direction. But with crafting either you have to give several tries at the item or give something more deterministic. The first iteration of harvest was perfect, especially when it got back in 3.13. good ol times.

[@sealinfate]

we need more love on last epoch

[@ZenataUSA]

I'm SSF and in t15 maps. If I didn't pick up a +4 skill sceptre off of a vendor during the campaign, I would not have any +skill on my weap, which is insane to me this far into the endgame. I've been slamming and identifying literally every single base weapon I have found and never even seen it roll.

[@xSpeakerYT]

I wish they would just take Last Epochs crafting system and just use a variation of that.

[@monkeyjamzter]

@xSpeakerYT I love last epochs system as I've never once had to trade in that game for absolutely anything. I underatand why people enjoy the SSF experience when I play that game.

[@whywhatfour]

dude for real last epoch's crafting is the best of any arpg i've ever played

[@gamedjinni9543]

its nuts that nobody is talking about last epoch more

[@oats_716]

I was literally typing this until I saw your post. Lol so I just 👍 up yours instead.

[@valsacar1]

Yes, for plan to copy a dead game. It's almost like if you make things too easy players don't stay engaged for long.

[@ExiledVessel]

Harvest was the best "worst mistake" of a league as it actually genuinely helped players learn to craft much like Essence league and Synthesis being a huge gateway into crafting.

[@doombybbr]

Harvest also ended up being the new sink for mirror crafters, both types wanted to use it. And some people just sold the lifeforce.

[@darrenyorston]

Harvest is the best league as far as I am concerned. I liked crafting the best items I could get. RNG has zero appeal to me. There is an argument that targeted crafting should limit items from being max tier and leaving that for RNG.

[@jprec5174]

Harvest during ritual was peak. It literally fixed most middling melee builds because you could actually craft gear to make mediocre builds work. Then they nerfed it.

[@funeralwind666]

the only league i crafted something

[@thischannelisnotmine]

Fractured base essence crafting felt so good when you could just print good, but not completely broken items, PoE 2 has a long way to go before i want to pick it up myself tbh but hoping the feedback helps make it better in the end

[@Sey318]

It's so horrible when you got a 3 mod item after double essencing, and then you need the 4th mod for the item to be usable at all... and all you can do is slam...

[@benkester1518]

Maybe they want to open up design space for the future. But the full release shouldn't lack a functional crafting mechanic. I feel like GGG wants what we consider a good crafting mechanic, but are taking a conservative approach. Small changes can have an outsized impact. Expectations setting would be helpful here too.

[@ExiledVessel]

We do have alterations, you pick up 3 bases of the exact same ilvl and rarity and then reforging bench and it feels fucking awful.

[@MrMokey24]

One problem I think that magnifies this, is the amount of rare items on the ground in high tier maps. Why would I go through all these steps when I can just fill my entire inventory with really solid rare items just from a single T15 map. They either need to make currencies drop more often or nerf the rare item spam. Maybe they could do both. I think using the currencies is straightforward and fun. But how it is now, I would advise any new player to stay far away from using currency on items apart from the occasional slam and for juicing maps.

[@wtfwasthat16]

-No agency + VERY expensive "meta" omen crafting + no redos. This is just gambling not crafting -Alt Aug Regal Slam Slam Throw away. The highs might be high, but the lows are very very very low. - Examaple: Miss MS on your boots? well either chaos orb for a 1-5 plus whatever weight to hit a good MS tier. if it misses GG its trash now. -Tiering is terrible for understanding where the tier sits. This is especially relevant for using the whitling omen that is BASED on removing the lowest mod not by tier but by the item level requirement of the mod that was rolled. If you didnt have poedb data mining that omen would be a terrible use case being there is no information on tiering breakdowns. Example T3 attack speed being higher than a T6 life roll, T6 would be removed not the T3 attack speed

[@Nimroc]

To be honest I kinda wish they reworked the rog crafts so that instead of buying a base from them to craft on you brought your own base for them to craft on, just perhaps with a limited amount of uses per item still.

[@Premier024]

Crafting is my favorite part of PoE 1 and the system in PoE 2 just makes me sad really its not even a shell of what we have in 1. I think you nailed alot of points that could atleast get it into a usable state.

[@archiewall582]

Same I was really pumped to start using omens and make some cool items poe 2. But im at 120hours and haven't seen one lmao

[@implosesgm]

Having no bench, no alts and no scouring doesn't even make the bases worth more, but instead makes the items on trade get extremelly overpriced in a way it scares new players. We are 2 weeks in, and a simple piece of gear with an "ok" tier life and 3x 25%+ resists or 2x 25%+ resists and any chaos resist costs more than 1 div. How much time does a newcome player gotta play to pay for just that piece alone? is that ok? is it designed to be like this? These people will watch streamers playing a complete different game with their 10~20~50 div builds, and guess what? they'll quit.

[@ARPGCAMPER]

You can't have "crafting" orbs tied to trading and crafting at the same time. Drop way more rares, and way less currency OR drop way more currency and way less rares. Both are rare right now and it feels terrible. They took a system that had been built on for 10 years and tried to fix it.

[@archiewall582]

Eh poe 1 pulled it off just fine

[@alexzephyris1455]

Dude who only played games with gold as the medium of trade talking as if rare items on the ground in poe1 weren't dogshit.

[@Tsuusetsu]

@@alexzephyris1455 I think i honestly found an item on the ground that was good only in the campaign. nobody picked up gear at all.

[@mrtoothless]

@@archiewall582 No it didn't. It was just less shit.

[@iFoss]

@@mrtoothless Tf you mean. It works great for both crafting and trading. You not utilizing it doesn't change that

[@dariusm.8316]

I think they could even give the alteration orb the same treatment as the chaos orb, in making it "remove one, add one mod" so it would be a lot better on magic items with only 1 mod.

[@dariusm.8316]

This would at least let us roll one guaranteed good mod, on which we then can aug+regal+ex

[@circaen]

@@dariusm.8316 This is the first idea i've heard that I liked. I don't want scours in the game, they legit ruin loot.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

@@circaencrafting was 100% fine in poe1 they didn’t need to change shit

[@korewasenpai1673]

​@@circaen Imo there could be ground loot and stuff like alts/scours just by adding drop only mods that happen on tiered items in maps. So if you pick up magic wand t3 you can get something like lightning dmg +shock chance t5 out of 9 tiers that would have same dmg as lightning dmg t5 but also shock for being ground loot. This way ground loot is still usefull while also alowing for easier gearing on other characters, more crafting options and such. Maybe they could even add reocombinators which mark items as "recombinated" so you cannot make perfect items so easly but you can try for moving drop only mods into better bases or stuff like that

[@JayBigDadyCy]

Yes. This would not make bases be bricked so easily.

[@madhatten5123]

I 100% agree. There have been so many really cool crafting mechanics in the history of PoE and now we are back to slam and pray. It’s so bad.

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

My biggest problem with the crafting system is that there is not really a deterministic way to get good mods. If you roll low affixes on your brand new item and there is nothing you can really do to fix it. It especially sucks when you slap a rarer crafting currency like an Essence or Regal and your items just gets bricked.

[@archiewall582]

If the omens were actually reasonable to get + more runes that were swappable would help.

[@xxxxdddddss]

omens is a joke, greater essence is a joke, splinters is a joke, basically all mechanics are a joke cuz they have mirror level drop rates for whatever reason

[@mojojojo560]

I do not interact with the crafting at all after I burned a few exalts and got absolute crud on 4 otherwise good pieces of gear. When it comes to economy it makes no sense to risk crafting items when you can spend less and get more every time at the trade site.

[@Alexman208GR]

One really important detail for why crafting needs to be expanded is that it make the early leveling experience so much less frustrating if you get unlucky with drops. Right now people are completely surrendered to their luck, and this causes a very wide range of experiences while leveling. Some people get a lucky drop and breeze through, while a lot more get no drops and are playing dark souls for 10 minutes vs act bosses. Giving us a little bit of bench crafting would allow players to add a mod on each item would improve their power tremendously. And now the developers will be able to assume a minimum level of power and balance the game even better!

[@doombybbr]

They could also change how it works. Crafing bench does not need to be 1-1 from PoE1. Also I really think that the amount of stuff you get from league content in maps is what you should be getting in early campaign, as in those leagues should be in campaign and they should be buffed like crazy.

[@acksawblack]

You have the crafting bench in runes

[@doombybbr]

@@acksawblack runes are weak, cannot even cap a single resist in act 1 with them. compare to original PoE where bench could fix resists entirely. This is with the endgame res penalty.

[@TKnightTea]

As a new player i just wish i could change what modifier on the item i want to be affected :( , i don't like this total random where any item can be screwed at any point - makes my progression on the item totally random..

[@nikkfrostt]

I think I've crafted about 300 staves from act 2 normal to reaching maps. Picked up every base, bought them from shops. Made them blue and was looking for a good physical damage % stat. The best stat I saw was 40%. A random shop rare gave me something lke 90% physical damage and I used that to get to maps (level 40 weapon). Looked at trade and the shittiest staves available for 1 exalt had something like 160+% physical damage and tons of other amazing stats. Crafting needs a massive buff because it looks like its useless. May as well just sell your items for gold, buy from shop (rare/blue if any ever appear that are useful) and hopefully you can make it to maps. If your ssf, get comfortable using garbage tier weapons or spend a few days just grinding side areas to hopefully get something slightly better to drop. Otherwise go to trade and buy from the people who reached maps within the first day and are finding strong low level gear from high tier maps.

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

Cause its not crafting. Its gambling. PoE1 "crafting" was already 90% gambling. It was just directed gambling with the ability to "check-point reset" if you rolled wrong. and if you really didnt want to deal with it, you get the 3 mods you want then, can have 3 crafted mods and bench craft the last 2. PoE1 crafting in my opinion already felt horrible. gambling as a "crafting" mechanic isnt fun. but poe2 is even worse. They needed to go the deterministic route, not triple down on gambling. Their whole selling point of the game was slower, more engaging, targetting a more casual audience and well receiving new players. In no world will calling gambling "crafting" to a casual or new player, be well received by them. I already have 2 friends who quit because of this. New poe players. I've been playing PoE for the last 8 or 9 years. I was ready for something new, i was hyped that it was going to be so different, a more casual experience, better for new players, but with the same depth afforded to us in poe1. sounded fantastic. but we just got poe1 core with slower combat. Im really really hoping they take the turn towards deterministic crafting, similar to something like last epoch but with their own improvements. we already have poe1. That was kinda the whole point with this. its supposed to NOT be poe1. Give us OG OG Harvest League Harvest and thatd be a fine middle ground. I understand it being too much to some people for PoE1 but its exactly what we need for poe2

[@iamgrimbo1553]

My exact feedback in beta, glad they listened to me.. oh wait..

[@nightyonetwothree]

last league was almost guarantee to craft. It's just a number of alts. And with altars, alts are not that scarce

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

@@iamgrimbo1553 glad to see theyre listening to feedback as theyre surely known for.. oh wait..

[@jprec5174]

With fractured bases, essence and beast crafting you can easily craft a workable weapon in a day. It was incredibly easy in settlers. Influence crafting is an rng fest, but I had fun crafting an influenced eater/exarch chest so that my guy always had frenzy charges up no matter what. It was a pain in the ass but getting that mod at the right level was so satisfying especially because the currency market made mass buying and selling currency a breeze.

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

@jprec5174 spending a day just to craft one item tbh is outrageous. I get it. A lot of people are stockholm syndromed and after years of playing, learning, and then finally getting that fractured base, essencing and scouring for hours(or just essence rerolling) till you hit what you need, maybe giving it the ole harvest digeridoo if you wanna go hard. Or just 3 crafted mods and bench crafting the last 2 after a lucky annul.(rip suffix/prefix bench mod and harvest keep) The end result can be pretty nice. The problem is the majority of that process is so unfun and pretty much entirely gambling. I think most people would much rather a less dopamine spiking process that gets them what they need after saving up a bit but is still nice to complete.

[@laxxboy20]

1 thing that makes me think they won't bring alts back is because of Precursor Tablets. Then everyone could alt spam them to 10% increased experience gained, stack a bunch of them in towers, and level super fast. This would honestly be super welcome as the grind to 100 seems to be far more intense than PoE1. Especially when you add in the random 1 shots

[@paulamblard3836]

one of the thing for early crafting would be : add "minor exalted orb" and "minor regal orb", that could only give affix of level

[@darrenyorston]

Sure, this creates more shit to filter out. As it is uncut gems should be filtered out 100% of the time as you only need 1 level higher than you have. Then at level 20 they dont need toe xist.

[@paulamblard3836]

@@darrenyorston the drop rate of it would start to decrease in act 6, to reach 0 in T6+ maps.

[@c-tothefourth4879]

The system would be a lot more bearable if omens and essences actually dropped.

[@paulamblard3836]

About make the item drop matter : item should drop identified. i drop lot of blue item, that i will never do the effort, of : take, identify one by one, and drop ; or take, back in town, mass identify, and sell them. if they drop identified, i would just loot at them, and take the 1/200 that is not bad. (and may-be, 1/5000 will be really good, and drop would matter)

[@DarkWhite-t]

This!! They wanted bases to matter more... probably like in LE, but missed the main point. No one wants to pick up all that stuff and identify it, it's tedious, it has almost zero dopamine hits. What would make it much better is to drop identified items and let your loot filter notify you with a cool sound and visual effects about only really good drops. Also I can't believe this game started with no built-in loot filter after all these years. Don't get me wrong, Neversink's filters are fantastic, but how many new players will never know about them because they are not ready to install some third-party content?

[@helgenlane]

Yeah, devs probably think "the chances to get good gear are pretty high!" while the majority of players completely ignore blue gear, even though it could potentially have two perfect stats which is a great base for crafting.

[@Alexman208GR]

If items dropped identified, then the filter would show you the good items and players would flood the market and the economy with amazing BIS items that took zero effort to find. Now everyone will be able to buy good items with 1ex and exhaust all the content in the game with ease. If they did what you suggested, to prevent the problem I described, they would lower drops by 200 times to keep the economy healthy. Unfortunately the annoyance of picking up an item and identifying it is 100% intended. I don't know about you but drops do matter, it might be very hard to find something that is good for you, but you're much more likely to get something good for someone else. Especially if you pick up a t5 item, they do indeed tend to roll high values. My friend today picked up some boots with 30% move speed, good hp, good resistance. Slammed it twice and it rolled another two resistances, and sold it for 12 div. This is why you pick up items, cause you might hit the jackpot!

[@paulamblard3836]

​@@Alexman208GR It is not a problem if lootfilter are use, at the opposite, it is good. This item need effort to farm by playing the game. Also, the BIS would still be very rare. And it is useless to have hundreds of item that we let on the ground. if they reduce this number, but make the remaining useful, it is good. you play the game and kill enemies, because you might hit the jackpot.

[@jaednhowlar2359]

Just a note: you cannot remove spamming from the game IE. ALT spam. You can only add steps to it. The people with the mass currency to craft are indeed spamming, they just have more steps and thus the simple-ass non-system they have is even more inaccessible to normal players.

[@Colston3]

Crafting in PoE1 was the biggest barrier to entry for new players, it makes perfect sense for GGG not to frontload it, but runes are clearly a problem and should be addressed though, I would bring back the bench.

[@Lilybun]

yeah i hope whatever they end up adding is actually accessible and doesn't require a university course worth of information to participate in for new players.

[@sagi3933]

In essence, in PoE 2 we need: - Some form of Meta-Crafting (we have Omens, but that is not enough): I would like to see Enchanting as a mechanic that allows adding a metacraft as an enchant, that affects the next crafting currency applied or something - Instead of Alteration Orbs, we need a separate way to get decently good magic item bases, for example allowing regular essences to also allow AUGMENTING a magic item - Obviously socketed runes should not permanently ruin an item... we should be able to delete those runes, even if it costs us some gold or something like quality currency or whatnot

[@NhuQuynh-nv7fp]

Remember we need to give them feedback…. Many of Poe1 mechanics are due to player feedback to make it where it is today.

[@pythonxz]

Well GGG should also learn from their previous game. This is something they shouldn't need that much feedback for to make a better system.

[@fievelnole]

I always craft most of my own gear in PoE1. I buy a good fractured base, and then spam essences or fossils until I hit what I want. If it involves influence mods, I use the crafting bench and Harvest. It's much more satisfying than buying your own gear off of trade. So far in PoE2, I've just been buying from trade as I dont feel like I have any tools. The one exception being Rog.

[@larracis]

they need scouring orbs but you can only scour magic items, not rare. That gives you alittle more flexibility but potentially still leads you to the same dead craft if you regal it and it turns into garbage.

[@benjaminross4605]

This just brings back alts with extra steps. Crafting bases should be rare items with promising modifiers, not white items that you handpick mods step by step.

[@Barewell]

@@benjaminross4605yeah I don’t even think scours are super needed but they would be nice the way they were. But alterations to get a good magic base item at least would be great before the exalts. But if you get a shit roll it’s trash rare. That’s going to happen but less than it happens now. I wanted to give ssf a try but not the way it is now

[@dariusm.8316]

As I mentioned on other comments, I think an alteration orb that removes a mod, then adds a mod, just like the chaos orb, would also be a huge improvement already, letting us spam for 1 guaranteed good mod

[@larracis]

@@dariusm.8316 anything would be better than what we have now. Lol I'm not even sure what they were trying to do. They simplified it to almost it's simplest form compared to Poe 1. Even if they put alterations back in, but you can only slam idk 25 or 50 into 1 item. Something. Anything is better than the current.

[@benjaminross4605]

@@dariusm.8316 Oh I like that idea a lot

[@baIec]

My theory : they're making the game public without those currencies (scour/chaos/alt) so that they can see how much are worth the bases. They might introduce currencies similar to those we've known in POE1, and define their drop rate based on how the community valued base items prior introducing those currencies (for example, selling stellar amulets for 7ex atm, they might make scouring orb 7 times as rare as an ex)

[@SFH_Stuff]

I don't really like the argument "you don't find upgrades on the ground, you find them on trade". How do you think items appear on trade? People find them on the ground.

[@Ezechielpitau]

Sure, but everyone needs specific items for their build. the fact that once in a while you find a decent bow that can actually sell doesn't help you at all in crafting a usable staff

[@valsacar1]

​@@Ezechielpitaureally? So WTF do you do with the orbs you got for selling that bow?

[@7icecvf]

I am currently level 85. Not a single item I use is from the ground. A good item can drop indeed, but it is not for you 90% of the time. The reason for items appearing on the trade site is because of the giant player base. 1 of 100 can get lucky.

[@Arcanmoon]

It feels like GGG is paralyzed by gear mattering and crafting. They took so much out of the system, and seem afraid to give us anything to make our gear better. Unless they want to make both dropped loot or crafting better, pick a lane.

[@Sevrmark]

Why regal something that failed transmute and augment?

[@halfwing3306]

annuls and omens need to be far more common. i wouldnt have too much of an issue if we could actually just spend them for minor upgrades instead of feeling like they need to be saved for 'final' items.

[@rockyrockie581]

some ideas, not sure if it would make anything better but here: 1. Scouring orbs added to the game but scouring an item has 25% chance of destroying / bricking it. 2. Add drop only affix tiers. Something like in last epoch called "exalted" drops. These affixes are exceptionally more powerful but is drop exclusive. Most exalted drops have 1, rarely 2, and once in a blue moon, a triple exalted items can drop. 3. Items can drop with a special implicit, can be tied to a content, All of these makes picking up items off the ground still exciting as well as using omens to lock drop exclusive affixes and try gambling to scour the item.

[@archiewall582]

These are some cool ideas

[@Sorain1]

Frankly, the Exalted drop idea is absolutely something that should become a standard part of itemization. People need deterministic enough options to get most of the way, and let RNG thrill for that last chunk of full power.

[@Will-vj5bc]

It's not just the fact that they've stripped things back, its because they drop so little currency that you really don't get an opportunity to play with what's there.

[@Cryorus]

As an addition to the expedition crafting : A ) as you said more steps B ) maybe 3 options to select for each step or a way to "level" the crafting of the expedition people by doing an expedition map with them C) as maybe an unlocked perk down the line : Allow them to do this with gear you bring to them instead of buying and it can only be done once per item It is as you said , Crafting became more or less irrelevant due to resource scarcity and the backsteps they made with it. Due to these gamble chances I ended up with lvl 25-35 gear at the end of Cruel Act 3, I just couldnt get better gear and was blasting my resources trying to make something better. This is not how it should be

[@tmnumber1]

I actually think it would be totally fine this way if more crafting materials dropped and then we would at least have a lot of chances to hit something decent. I hit maps with a lvl 5 minion scepter. Granted it was a lucky scepter and Arsonists are OP but how did I not find an upgrade for like 55 levels?

[@Philip_was_here]

I think the devs are stuck on this point-->There needs to be a way to cycle through your first 2 or 3 mods [magic to rare stage] before you commit to spending the higher value currency [exalts/divines] to make crafting feel good to the crafter but keep item drops as 'valuable'. Whether that's an alteration/augment, fossils, scour alch, or essence over a fragmented item-like methods. Unfortunately the 'cycling' was considered by many as a negative thing "spamming alts for hours".. but in a game w/ RNG and 'chance', its unavoidable if you are trying to craft something specific for your build. But this 'cycling' was seen as a negative thing for some reason. Being in the early endgame [white-maps] and not having a viable way to craft a simple 3 or 4 mod item that has useful stats is just maddening to me.. trade is the only option that makes sense until youre filthy rich and can craft for the fun of it. On top of all of that: It really feels like the desirable mods (Life/ES, defenses, move speed and resists) are not even 'weighted' like they were in POE. The best you can do with what POE2 has is to Essence rather than transmute, then aug, regal,.. repeat three times and then recombo the failures. This may be what they had in mind. Crafting is just terrible in POE2 and I really hope they figure it out soon. I am one of those who loves to craft an item for each slot before end of league.

[@aaronbouquet644]

Light radius modifiers rolling on weapons is 30 year old cancer

[@reregfys7169]

100%

[@nicesnacks5015]

The answer to the bulk of issues in this game is a simple crafting bench, for now you wouldn't even need metamod I think. Not being able to craft a res or stat on an item makes ground loot garbage, which is the exact opposite of the intent they had, everyone on trade league is still objectively better off buying an item, and SSF in this game has 0 gear progression and is the worst its ever felt in POE. You can't ID an item and swap it as an upgrade as you progress maps, you can't res swap, you can't craft an attribute, your only option is tree swapping attributes and because of requirements that isn't enough often. I don't even think we need metamods scour or alts at a baseline. Maybe they are needed to make crafting have more depth and more of an end game POE1 type appeal, but what we need as a baseline is being able to craft a mod to save these items, without it SSF is dead and the illusion behind the slot machine isn't there like POE1, its just a straight slot machine with 0 control.

[@Steven-t8h]

I would say new methods will be added but they wanted to strip it back to basics so that new players could learn from the start, the most challenging part of poe1 for new players was the crafting and as a result most end game items were gate kept behind a lot of knowledge and currency, new leagues in poe 2 will bring new crafting methods and it gives ggg a chance to explain them better to new players in game this way.

[@MannersPlease]

This is cope. Any talk in any of these different topics where we talk about quality of life and making it explainable to new players is something they could still easily do in poe1. They just have actively chosen to not make the time to do so. Any talk of this requiring an entirely new hundreds of millions of dollars in development costs to do a robust and approachable new player experience is the infuriating thing ever. And if new players are actually looking for a long-time game, they could easily have invested the time to learn things despite GGG sticking their head in the sand. This " but if we delete everything from the game then new players can experience it" talk is casual take from casual players that are not going to be sticking around to talk about how amazing this game is 2, 3, or 4 years down the road. Dumbing down Poe 2 is not the victory you think it is. 90% of players that think this is amazing because there is zero depth to the system are not going to stick around for the long run because of that lack of depth. It's literally the opposite of what made poe1 such an amazing long-lasting game in the first place.

[@darrenyorston]

Making a game that makes it more difficult for new players is an odd choice IMHO.

[@MannersPlease]

​@@darrenyorston You literally are not engaging with the point at all. No one makes anything for the sole purpose of making it difficult for new players. That's obvious on it's face, no one will contest this statement, because the actual issue at contention is at a more fundamental level. I don't know who or what your statement is addressing.

[@JL-jr3sz]

I think I have a good suggestion, make scouring orb again, but instead of having it like poe1, have it have 40% chance of keeping the base, 40% downgrading like quality of base stats, and 20% of destroying (scouring) the base. then base will still matter and people can get at least 2 or 3 tries on stuff

[@moogleboy]

The problem isn't the lack of a bench. The problem is the scarcity of certain crafting currency like Omens and Annuls. The problem is people wanting mirror-tier gear two weeks into EA. The problem is people haven't solved the new crafting system yet because people are still trying to define the meta for skills. The problem is people keep thinking this is PoE 1 and think they're too good to pick up bases from the ground while trying to find upgrades.

[@doombybbr]

I have a filter that shows every base that fits my character type, I pick up every magic/rare. I even recombinate it. And I get stuff that isn't even worth it. I need to spend a lot of regals and do a lot of recombinations just to get an item with 2 resists, when the price on regals is 3 to 1ex, if I regal 3 times I am better off just buying off trade. If I buy off trade I get an instant upgrade that actually matters, if I try to craft I almost never get something good and it wastes time that could be spent mapping or just buying the instant upgrade. The only time crafting is worth it is if I had 1000Ex to spend on mirror crafting using all the omens and stuff.

[@moogleboy]

@@doombybbr And where do you think the loot you buy off the trade site comes from? They have the same shit luck as you, but multiplied by the fact that they are playing in groups. There's no shortcut to making gear in this game. It's a Gamba.

[@erwrwer8695]

I dont want mirror items(ofcourse i want who doesnt). In this point i want basic gear to fix res attributes, and if u cant do this , u will be frutrated and leave

[@moogleboy]

@@erwrwer8695 So work for them? People thinking they can run before they learn to stand.

[@g76agi]

​@@moogleboytheres nothing to learn, that is the problem, you arent learning to stand, you are hoping a cosmic ray hits you and makes your legs functional, that is the objective and true state of "crafting" in this game

[@Ajoscram]

Crazy idea: magic item imprints a la beast craft from PoE 1. You still have to pick up bases for rolling the magic item. The difference being that once you checkpoint a good magic item you can't fuck up those 2 mods anymore. That's the most painful part IMO

[@archiewall582]

That's a cool idea.

[@WitherAndrot]

I think ggg shoulded have another year of development for poe 2. It is so scarce of content, comparing to poe1 and so many decisions leading to massive frustration for players. But they obviously succeeded financially, so what do I know...

[@Marverousry]

it has way more content than any other game in early access AND the quality of the content is leaps and bounds better than poe1. Fights and actions feel impactful and palpable. You can feel your character, the movement, the enemies and their attacks. POE1 is just a blender of numbers

[@archiewall582]

Bro? It's early access. The game is half finished. Literally half the game isn't in it yet. Of course the game is "scarce" of content. Jonathan said it's 6months - 12months till 1.0. I.e when the game fully releases. Idk why you expected anything else 😕

[@WitherAndrot]

@@archiewall582 so early access game cannot have not enough content in your logic? Poe2 has 2 melee weapons with like 5 usable skills for each. No unique endgame content. And that's from poe 1 devs. It has not enough content even for early access.

[@g76agi]

Literally all you described is just visuals and audio, which i agree is better, but no way in hell would i ever describe current poe 2 as "leaps and bounds" better than poe1, not in single way, like literally not a single thing in this game is "better" than in poe1, which is like, insane​@@Marverousry

[@mickeydusk]

Thank you for taking the rose coloured glasses off and providing valid feedback.

[@xXVintersorgXx]

I agree it's simplified and a step back but I kinda like it being very difficult to make perfect 6 mod items. I like that they don't need to balance the game around having perfect items. And having a perfect rare is now a chase item. I think maybe they should allow essences to reroll like an alt on a blue item. And have the greater ones work like a new chaos orb on a yellow item removing a random mod and adding the essence mod. Lastly, I think they need to add something to remove socketed runes or soul gems. I don't think you should get them back but you should be able to at least clear ones you don't want off uncorrupted items

[@circaen]

Yeah, I dig the crafting

[@daanstrik4293]

That I also like. But the crafting in POE1 was by far the deepest single mechanic in the game. It is perfect for a game like POE where the action lies in the planning rather than the execution of an action. It rewarded knowledge much more than luck. And making even a mediocre item felt incredibly rewarding because of it. I hope it doesn’t become as powerfull/mandatory in the sequel. But I *do* want to at least influence the odds of crafting.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

It was always very difficult to make perfect items you clown.

[@richardmenz3257]

Agreed, I do wish we had more omens

[@xXVintersorgXx]

@@daanstrik4293 yeah, I think Poe 1 crafting is deep but also very inaccessible for non trade or semi casual players. I would love a little more depth in creating/modifying items but if you go too far, it becomes mandatory you have 6 mod items. When Demi was creating stuff back in the day he had mirrors worth of crafting supplies that literally no one else had. He even had access to stuff that wasn't in the game anymore like eternal orbs. And at that time you consider mirroring the things he created. After harvest it became no big deal

[@corpusarmatae8541]

Hot take here, we absolutely don't need the craftbench. At this moment we can already 3:1 essences in the reforge thingy but it only has a chance to give a greater essence back, make it a sure thing. Omens are a great alternative to the craftbench, the only issue is this ruthless scarcity. Ha, and let us overwrite the socketed runes. The endgame is so undercooked it's not even funny. You can't target farm anything without setting up a region of your atlas through the tablets in the towers (5-10minutes per map, to go through three or four tower it might take you two hours even before you start farming your 'maybe one essence per map'.) and you lose it when you die anyway. Breach and delirium don't drop much splinters, if any, below tier 15 and I've yet to see how to progress on ritual's passive tree. I've only got few omens. *At this point I think I would've prefered no endgame, but the full campaign.*

[@karlklein2263]

I do NOT want to grind thousands of currency orbs to get a craft. That crap turned me right off of poe1.

[@Lolcohol]

Apart from the fact you didn't need thousands of Orbs in PoE to craft a single item, how is this system in able to create crafts in fewer steps? :o

[@karlklein2263]

@Lolcohol looking at the bench in poe1 you need thousands of link and chroma jewels to get what your build needed and I never wanted to grind for that. I also didn't want to watch a 1 hour tutorial for an obscure system that has little to no explanation.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

@@karlklein2263Poe is not the game for you.

[@soshspotgames4380]

@@karlklein2263 what you're missing is that, in poe 1, you literally NEVER had to engage with the complex crafting if you didn't want to. how nice was it that you could be going through the campaign and stop in your hideout to craft on some fire resist on your gear from your bench? your cherry picking the most obnoxious parts of poe 1 crafting without looking at the system as a whole. Maybe 1% of the poe 1 playerbase engaged with crafting at the high end, and the reality was, there was no reason to do so. No one here is arguing that gems and links on items was dumb in poe 1, and no one is arguing for that system to be back. why is that your only counter-argument? crafting in poe 1 was literally easier and more straight-forward at the lower levels that it is in poe 2. in poe 2, your options are gamble with precious currency and then trash the item when you get nothing good. in poe 1, you could craft the exact mod you needed from your bench and be done with it. you can't look at the top 1% players and their ridiculous end-game crafts and then be stupid enough to think that you're expected to do all of that as brand new player....you were never expected to do those kinds of crafts.

[@ginz9r]

​@@karlklein2263noone said to bring chromes/jewelers back

[@ScyLentShade]

I don't care about the crafting bench as much as I hate the feeling of being unable to reroll a great-looking blue item, and more often than not, once you do, it's lost. There should either be a scour or an alteration, even if it is similar to what they did to the chaos orb.

[@The_Maister.]

I think they should add Harvest 1.0 that will solve all crafting issues (- the planning of the plants)

[@Lolcohol]

Reforge in any form (Alt/Chaos/Harvest) would be an improvement, but I think there's more missing than just that :(

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

adding OG OG 3.14 harvest league harvest could actually be a decent middle ground between what the crafting should be and what it is now.

[@rubikmonat6589]

POE2 crafting: Every item is rare. Transmute = 1/4 of a wisdom scroll. Augment = 1/4 of a wisdom scroll. Regal = 1/4 of a wisdom scroll. Exalt = 1/4 of a wisdom scroll. It's so boring. If you drop a good base I dont even bother crafting on it, I smash it in the bench to get the quality and/or socket fragments out.

[@Jay-bz5qk]

Time and time again GGG releases outrageously underpowered mechanics only to later live off the hype when they are inevitably buffed. This is a financial, not a development decision.

[@archiewall582]

They've done this every leage since launch.

[@acksawblack]

This is litterally how you design any multiplayer game, its standard dev strategy due to player psychology. Taking power away from players feels worse than buffing. If you start too strong people have meltdowns when you nerf.

[@ForbiddenExile]

Trying to get a good +4 wand for my spark. I literally ID every blue and rare. Trans Aug every white. I’ve probably done 200+ without a single good prefix/suffix to even waste an ex on hoping to slam +4. So I’ll just end up buying it. Hopefully they fix it. Even just adding alts back in would completely change crafting in a good way. Or really raise the drop rates of chaos

[@damons3253]

i genuinely don't understand the hate for poe1 crafting. you get in what you are willing to pay for. aka you want to make a moderately useful item, do x; want to make a good item, do xy, great item.. xyz... amazing item, xyz-abc; god tier item, .. insert whole alphabet. this is the best sort. you have all of the agency. PoE2 crafting just feels so bad, you can't even do X to get a moderately useful item. you get an item and want to make it better, try X, fail, done. wasted resources. espeically at low levels. as you get higher, sure it gets "better"; but the amount of resources it takes, its better to buy from trade. again, feels so bad.

[@archiewall582]

Poe 1 crafting allowed any player with the right knowledge craft amazing gear. In poe 2 it doesn't matter if you know about mod weights, omens, tiers, meta crafting, whatever, it still gonna be 100× more effienct to never "craft" and just buy from trade.

[@SolaticSyot]

It also just doesn't feel very good in my opinion. I played like 400 or 500 hours in settlers and it was my first time really playing. I also did my first item craft which took a bit of time but overall was really simple, still I was incredibly proud of it. I found what I think was a really good base, elder+shaper influenced it, slammed it with some fossils for the right mods, then finally crafted a veiled mod (it took me way too long to find that mod) onto it at the crafting bench and had a really sick minion helmet. Not only did I save like 30 div compared to buying it, but I had made it, in my mind it practically said "crafted by me" on it. I really hope they can make a system that feels that rewarding to craft with in poe2. Right now I get excited if I slam something good but I don't feel anything near the same amount of satisfaction or feel any attachment to the item.

[@archiewall582]

The feeling of pride of crafting a really cool item for far cheaper than trade, is something I also miss from poe 1

[@W1nDs0R]

The crafting feels terrible, we need a scouring orb or alteration orb. Having most bases just brick sucks, and basically forces people to just buy their gear from the trade site. I was shocked when I saw the currency tab, and how much we're missing out on now

[@HolyDude02]

Scouring would be big already

[@Pavton]

Add essences, like a massive amount of it, and perfect essences for rare items. And they need to make those drop from any monster, not only essence mechanic...

[@thinkchair96]

Removing orbs of alteration was a wild decision. Ultra punishing for casual ssf

[@danielaltman8848]

Harvest was my favorite league. Loved being able to actually craft what I wanted.

[@bmnbl]

Having the alt spam until you get the "perfect" or close to perfect first 2 mods on a piece of gear makes all the difference, i dont like this method of picking up tons of bases and selling those as trash just you missed the first blue mod. Im even ok with having chaos orb like it is as long as we could have a good start of an item with the alterations.

[@dariusm.8316]

I think even an alt orb that has the same functionality as the chaos or (remove a mod, add a mod) would make a huge difference so we can spam for 1 guaranteed good mod

[@smezbuilds9897]

I completely give up on crafting or finding good loot. I have never felt less rewarded for my time in a game. I'm exchanging currency for exalts and spending 100s a day on trade just to get gear. Can't progress further because mapping giga chads are now trading for copious amounts of divine orbs

[@xxxxdddddss]

why are annuls even in the game? all you can do after annul is slamming ex which is equal to just using a chaos orb

[@ArnoldsKtm]

something with omens maybe

[@brandond6360]

You annul a magic item and try again 😂🤣

[@archiewall582]

I'm confused by this too. I guess we're annuling magic items to mimic alteration spam. Of course no one's actually gonna do this.

[@brandond6360]

@ how many annuls do I spent to get my +2 arrrows 🤣😂🤣

[@acksawblack]

You annul wioth omens to try target suffix or affix

[@MrHollywood2219]

What about chaos orbs? They allow for the items to never actually be bricked. Instead of convoluted systems, having a base crafting system like this makes it so the control you have is controlling the change of changing a bad mod and not a good mod. You can alter that fraction through annuls.

[@MuriloBlkViper]

At this moment, i think is the only aspect of PoE 2 that feels "broken" to me. Most of other grudges i have with the game, probably would be fixable with minor tweaks/work. Craft in other hand, i think just need to be totally remade. At it is right now, is just identifying an item with multiple steps.

[@Lolcohol]

I don't think it needs to be totally remade - the foundation for a brilliant system is right there, but too many pieces were left out. I promise that if just something as simple as Orbs of Scouring were re-added, it'd feel better, but we also need some form of reforging (Chaos/Essence/Alteration) and the Bench to really get it to where it will feel usable and not just identifying with extra steps like you described

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

@@Lolcohol i disagree, i think it needs to be totally remade. gambling as the foundation for whats supposed to be a CRAFTING system is 100% flawed.

[@DonskoyRoman]

11:10 you are wrong about scour orbs, you can slam a bunch of annulments to clear your item, but that's costly enough not to do that and just buy or find another base

[@asluckdespairs]

Wisdom Scroll is the most powerful crafting item in the game. Thats a problem.

[@nicholasiverson9784]

I wouldn't mind the reintroduction of scours to the crafting currencies and would love a limited bench crafting system. Maybe even make them slightly more powerful but as rare as a chaos orb currently is? It'd remove all but 1 prefix and 1 suffix from a rare, to demote an item to magic from rare. And if used on a magic item would remove them all. To completely clear off an item of affixes you'd need two of this scarcer scour orb, making it a Real cost, and to remove crafted mods as well. The reason Runes are not bench crafting is there's item restrictions on Prefixes and Suffixes, a mod that affects the defenses of the item, ES/Armour/Evasion/Ward w/e, are always the prefix modifiers of the item, and resistances, attributes, that kind of thing are always suffixes. If you're doing an Armour stacking build or ES etc. where the prefix is the important stat of the item, you'll use runes to maximize that stat for your character - but if you can't beat a boss that deals Fire damage, and your fire resistance is -6 or something terrible and you can't afford a proper upgrade - crafting something equivalent to a t1 fire res mod to allow you to continue playing and earn the currency for an item with a decent resist roll. To an Int stacker an item with no Int rolls but amazing mana and a nice resist roll, would be a fantastic upgrade all around - except it's missing Intelligence, Buying that expensive item off trade, then slamming, and bricking the suffixes with no Int - when you could instead craft on 5-10 Int guaranteed? Seems good to me. The bench doesn't have to be even as powerful as it started in PoE1, a watered down version with equivalent to t1 mods from the pool, would be game changing. You could even make the crafts have a real cost like increasing attribute requirements, add a flat evasion mod to an Int base and suddenly you need dex to equip it. Maybe that also affects what mods you can exalt slam onto it, in addition to the int bases modifiers maybe you can hit something like % evasion, instead of blocking mods. Make it even Less powerful, but potentially more interesting I suppose. Crafting with downsides is fine if it gets the job done, gives you some agency as a player. That's the point of it after all.

[@sethjones6711]

Dude, no crafting bench is dumb

[@lucasbaile14]

100% agreed! Another huge problem I see is even if I wanted to hoard some chunk of currency to do a crafting session for a specific slot, I would have to either: 1) Specifically filter and pick that white base dozens (if not hundreds) of times from the ground, which is extremely RNG and cumbersome; or 2) Trade for that white base dozens/hundreds of times in the trade site, which comes with all the friction we know, and would probably make me wanna kill myself. I am not a casual in any sense, but I have always been a casual when it comes to crafting, and somehow this new system did push me even further from wanting to engage with crafting. All I do now is slam with exalts and alchemy orbs and pray.

[@stephanpaul8954]

HELP US Lolcohol You're our only hope! I enjoy poe2 but im SOOO exhausted and burnt out after just 35 hours. I love ssf but its so punishing... I want to fall over when I get my boots and I hit it with a transmute and get tier1 life and throw it in the trash... just to farm and hope to get some base again... just to trash it again it feels soooooooOooOOOo awful. And alterations... was lame for sure.. but its WAY better than stock piling 100 bases and throwing them all away... I wish transmutes were literally just alterations/transmutes/augmentations a transmute will give 1-2 lines and you can use it on an item AGAIN like an alt.

[@Snowy123]

I don't mind not having a crafting bench and if thy want to go a different design philosophy than PoE1, all I want is for them to give us more greater essences and allow us to slam items together with recombinator if they want to stick with the less determistics methods.

[@kmaguire7161]

I definitely found the old system bloated and overwhelming but the new system is basically just nothing but gambling. You get lucky you have a good game experience. You get unlucky you are miserable. As a caster I have yet to make gloves that don't have "attack" stats on them. Feels bad. Also I had hoped that loot in general would change more. It is still like POE1 where you can get a lucky roll at level 10 on a wand and then not find an upgrade again until maps. This just makes it feel like there is no sense of progression. I *want* to be getting upgrades as I level up and play the game.

[@richardmenz3257]

Ran 3 chars and got upgrades on each of them. Now most of these upgrades were 2 or 3 good mod items. Are you expecting 6 mod perfect items ever 10 lvls ?

[@kmaguire7161]

​@@richardmenz3257 were any of them spell users or attack? With casters my experience is you can get a lucky powerful early +76% spell power wand or +2 spells or whatever and because of RNG it is very hard to replace them while leveling. I don't play "attack" characters as much so I don't know what is common for them. But overall spell power prefixes and suffixes are much less common than attack/accuracy ones. That was something I was hoping would change with POE2 but it is the same. I wasn't expecting 6 mod perfect items every 10 levels WTF with that dumb comment?

[@richardmenz3257]

@@kmaguire7161 1 was caster. Well a 76 chance at low level is rare because max is 80. You’re asking for a 1 in like 20k roll there. But by level 30 I got easy 76+ spell dmg ones because way less rare. But I haven’t fully levels caster so we will see, but both martials used lvl 33 weapon into tier 8 maps no issues so 1 good roll can last you anyways

[@g76agi]

​@@richardmenz3257youre literally proving his point, saying that YOU got good item drops doesnt mean HE didnt, how do you not understand that?

[@richardmenz3257]

@@g76agi Because he didnt doesnt mean most people are getting gear like they should. I gambled every vendor, I picked up every piece of loot to get my items. So idk if I am really lucky. Also my level 38 item lasted until lvl 75. So even if you dont get lucky the ok gear you git should last you until mapping. So...., also I played 3 chars only using the currency I found not sharing it to give best fedback for the chars to ggg, I should have all 6 at some point. Also have about 5 friends not a single of us had drop issues so either that are not using what they got to gample / craft or 2 they are super unlucky but in a sample size of about 10 plays we never had a gear issue. Still to small of a sample size, but if gear was this bad ggg would of made increases to the extreme which they have not. From my experience most people that have complained have not tried to interact with the game in some maner. Be is not using relics, not crafting, not increasing defensive stats, so forth and so on.

[@Francorocco]

i realy don't get why they added annulments if the only thing you can do is exalting again, chaos orb let you do both at once and is way more common, i'm almost lvl 90 and have not found a single annul

[@FranciszekWolc]

i think there is no "crafting system", and i think thats intended

[@TheCosmicAstro-]

they COULD make it feel much less like trash if they actually made loot better. aggressively cull low tier modifiers as item level increases, remove trash stats like light radius, etc. this wouldnt fix the problem but would at least be a step in a better direction.

[@FranciszekWolc]

@@TheCosmicAstro- it doesnt feel like trash, it feels like diablo 2, i think players just want power and not actual good game

[@kingzluv6359]

Why do we have orbs at all if crafting is not intended. Just trade your gear with gold and throw away the uniqueness of poe 1's crafting mechanism.

[@FranciszekWolc]

@@kingzluv6359 well you have orbs but they arent really a system - just like cube crafts in d2 werent really a system. Its just gamba bros, if you dont like it poe1 aint goin anywhere

[@KILOBify]

@@FranciszekWolc I agree with you on all accounts. However, I do expect more things to be added over time. I think the base-line for PoE2 is intentionally not the same as PoE1. GGG almost certainly has plans in the work for months or even years ahead, but people want all of it in less than a week's time... even if it is incomplete. Such is the state of gamers nowadays, expecting content as fast as it can be imagined.

[@boggartmob]

It seems it's designed in this way to push white items value up. So you have to start with number of white items to spam currency into instead of number of alts to spam into one base. And in the very last steps, when price of mistake is high - please use these super rare omens. However as you mentioned - it's way simpler to get gear on trade.

[@novademon]

This video is a good explanation of why they changed crafting. Yes, crafting is powerful in POE 1, but you need craft of exile to understand how to maximize its potential. This is exactly why they changed it. Yes, it was powerful. Yes, crafting in POE 2 needs work. BUT I shouldnt have to rely on an outside resource and two hour crafting videos to understand it. I would love to have a new player to POE watch this video and get their reaction. My guess is they'd understand about 10% of what you're saying. The other thing is, crafting in POE 1 still just boils down to luck. Yes, you can be somewhat deterministic with it, but how deterministic is it if I have to spam 200+ essences to get a T1 prefix that still might not hit? Or 2000 alterations to get a rare mod? Might as well go to the trade site. Which I do. And I do the same thing in POE2. If it doesnt hit, go to the trade site.

[@potworzgo]

This comment. Same for me. If I ever did a craft in poe1 it was because some guy made step by step 30 minutes video on how to get guaranteed +1 to level if skills. I hope they will never make poe2 crafting that hard

[@JordaanM]

Do you think that having a method to deterministically add 1 specific affix to a rare item, for an affordable gold cost, would be ruinous? No blocking or metamods, just adding 1 mod. I think for a lot of people, going through campaign/early mapping, the pain is that you can find 2-3 affix items that would be good, if they had 1 specific state you wanted. But the only way to get that stat on their is to get lucky with exalt/chaos, which are already rare currencies. A single affix crafting bench, allowing you to take a decent blue item, regal it and then craft 1 guaranteed mod, would give people access to a lot more solid 4-affix items. Nothing mirror-tier, but enough to stabilise a build, while also making crafting simpler.

[@novademon]

@@JordaanMI like that a lot actually

[@Alex-tc4se]

New player here. Never got to crafting in poe1 before I bounced off the game. If I understand what scour was - going back to magic from rare - I think that would be all I would want. That way you still have to eat the mats but have a way to redo without bricking the item.

[@archiewall582]

Poe 1 is not luck. You can estimate costs and then look at the standard deviation of cost to account for luck. But using the rigjt methods you will hit the mods you want.

[@danievdw]

Yeah, I never thought I'd say this, but bring back Alteration orbs. Greater essence craft is only a option in SSF. Since in every aspect just trading for a item is cheaper than greater essence crafting.

[@dariusm.8316]

This is so true, I just started playing in ssf, because I thought the simple crafting methods make it a lot less daunting to try ssf. Now I realise, it's so simple, there's basically no reasonable way of crafting my gear way up in the time left per week I can play PoE in.

[@matthiashornke9969]

A friend of mine got stuck during the campaign on the flamethrower boss and I dumbass said "why don't you get some fire res?" when he asked me "oh, how do i get fire res?" i swallowed and said "I guess you don't"

[@erikhendrickson59]

My guess is that a few years from now POE2 will be dead, and any remaining players will have migrated back to POE1. POE2 is fun for 50-100 hours and that's about it. It's sadly an EXTREMELY shallow game in comparison to POE1.

[@acksawblack]

Yes of course it is, did you play beta poe1?

[@yurisavun3776]

1. More Annuls 2. More Chaos 3. Selling rares gives 2 regal shards, 6mod - 4 regal shards 4. Less drop of bases 5. Maybe more exalt drop 6. More omens 7. More greater essence Do u think it will fix crafting, guys? P.s. filter with good bases will help too, for ground looting

[@clarencegutsy7309]

This whole game is ten years behind.

[@neals6348]

While I've only been playing PoE 1 for a couple of years now; over time I came to really love and appreciate the deterministic crafting the bench gave me. Never made mirror tier items or anything but between syndicate, harvest, essences etc it provided me a means of crafting for easy currency and gearing through red maps which I really enjoyed. I don't even engage w the crafting in PoE 2 since the first 3 acts of the campaign, its too RNG and the exalts are better spent on trade and regals/alchs generally are best used on waystones not bases. I hope they bring back the bench because outside them buffing essences to match PoE1 and the omens becoming cheap and readily available I see no point in wasting my time w the current crafting system in PoE2

[@blackomega34]

I sincerely hope they don't bring back the old crafting system though, I love the idea of 'get bases, craft them up, toss if bad, farm more instead of hideout warrioring'. It is terrible that you can have 'shit mods' AND 'low rolls', they say you need light radius to exist because a shit mod needs to exist, but +10 life or 3 life regen are just as useless.

[@00holokast00]

So you want it to be simple and boring? If so go play D4 or LE. One if the things that made PoE great was the in depth crafting.

[@alexbrestowski4131]

If the devs listened to people like you back in the day, no one would have ever even heard of poe1 because it’d be dead on arrival

[@blackomega34]

@@alexbrestowski4131 Why do they have to listen to me? I'm defending the design decisions they literally decided to put in the game.

[@blackomega34]

@@00holokast00 Simple and boring? Craftofexile bullshit is boring. Having to farm stuff and gamble to upgrade what you find is fun.

[@JordaanM]

Last Epoch's system of crafting potential + runes is excellent, and is probably the crafting system with the best balance of control, accessibility, and depth, in any ARPG.

[@soropoe]

2014: I was a Christian in college spreading the word of God. wish I knew this game back then