PoE 3.22 Why I'm League starting Lightning Arrow Even After The Nerf

[@Grimro]

Yo what is up guys, nothing changed with my guide for lightning arrow from 3.21 and everything there is still fully viable (I'll be using it myself) but if you're looking for the freshest tech and likely the most optimal starter version of this build check out Crouching_Tuna's build guide. With the amount of testing he has put into it, you likely can't go wrong. Most Up To Date And Tested Lightning Arrow Starter Guide: Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWSyeYmrdst8p9U&ab_channel=Crouching_Tuna Written Guide: maxroll.gg/poe/build-guides/lightning-arrow-deadeye-league-starter

[@Mr_Sigy]

hey any chance you could post your atlas passive tree, been a while since I played poe.

[@EnjoyGengar]

Not corruped blood comeback? Sadge

[@ExiledVessel]

Will you be streaming poe again?

[@kimberly4275]

Wouldnt be a true poe league without grim starting a bow character.

[@Z1g0l]

*Half of builds in every new league being bow related builds

[@VividFlash]

Cute pfp

[@comma28]

forever zooming. can't wait for you league mechanic guides grim. have a great league start mate!

[@Grimro]

You to GL on your drops!

[@SMEH774]

@@Grimro GL brother!

[@rax313]

This is a PHENOMENAL video for league starting in 3.22 youtube recommend this to everyone!!

[@lhatten512]

I started this two leagues in a row it’s insane. Decided to go a different direction this league just because I want a change and haven’t started a caster for a long time. So I’m going DD gonna push sims should be fun.

[@DarkBiCin]

I tried lightning arrow for the first time last week on ssf and was so sad when i came home from work to find the transfers had happened. I enjoyed leveling with it and getting up to T10 maps. Heard about the nerfs and honestly never got to cascade so never got to feel it but even without it it felt great and im excited to get to finally try it end game!

[@tvujtatata]

Can easily get to T16 even without the previous VC.

[@NessNT]

It's still the most busted speed build in PoE for years lol, just ask Kobe. He plays it every single league for the past 3 years cause nothing goes as fast as deadeye so

[@lhatten512]

I started this build the league before VC was even a thing and it was still insane. It’ll be fine without VC for sure.

[@Member_zero]

@@NessNT I agree. It's probably the fastest clearing ascendancy in game. You can go torando shot (yes it's still great at league start just because of deadeye), lightning arrow, ice shot or even spectral throw! All will feel amazing at clearing maps. It's really flexible build and great platform to do your own take. Endless Munitions is the reasons this all works imo. Raider is fast as well. But you are missing those 2 extra arrows. And that is huge. So I disagree with Grimro here - Raider doesn't make great sense as a starter - you can go with flesh and flame setup, to get EM on raider, but that will cost you close to 50 divines or more. Not great for leaguestarting - maybe for Grim, since he's a pro and can get there day 2. But for me, it's not great.

[@tvujtatata]

@@Member_zero yea played it both in trade and SSF and Deadeye was zooming since campaign. No issue.

[@btarczy5067]

Once the build came together last league and I didn’t need to boss as much anymore I switched to TS and a 6-link Manaforged Arrows CoC setup with Tornado and Hydrosphere. At that point I didn’t need to press anything but right click TS and the occasional movement skill. Also works as a 4-link before that either as Manaforged-Frenzy-PCoC-Cull or Manaforged-Frenzy-CoC-Hydrosphere/Tornado.

[@imaika281]

Also berserk is really OP for bossing, I did all ubers on LA deadeye last league using berserk cheese and no OP crucible bow at the time. Would recommend

[@Fourside__]

yoo what up grim, cant wait for your spreadsheets for 3.22! :D

[@АндрейШегидевич]

We missed you so much Grim!

[@LeeSimp9029]

I’ve always struggled with dmg when league starting bows, is it just a matter of sticking with it until you have a solid bow? I normally swap to TR pathfinder or Reroll entirely cause the dmg feels too low in comparison.

[@jshh2655]

Just use essence on a decent base, really simple

[@MyNameIsSalo]

just buy a bow, sort by edps in poe trade and youll get some cracked high edps bows cheap. For even better you can essence spam a fractured base if you can snipe a decent crit or AS fractured base, essences are basically free tbh. Bows have heaps of damage, most of your ST comes from artillery ballista, just drop them and run around bosses and they die. Near 100% dps uptime which makes up for the lack of gear when most builds cant achieve 100% dps uptime. Also most of your dmg after bow comes from jewellery/quiver, which you can use the weighted search function in PoB to find insane cheap stuff, like quivers that give 30% more dps for 5c with life/res are very easy to get. You just need to know how to use the trade site to get cheap items.

[@LeeSimp9029]

@@jshh2655 I can typically get a 500ish edps bow just off drops alone but even with decent crit it feels low dmg without having decent rings and being over leveled. I feel that should be a good enough bow to clear til t5 at least, no? Maybe I’m just pampered by TR and EA having insanely easy dmg scaling with little effort.

[@blakerichards7210]

@@LeeSimp9029best way to really get a spike in dps is hitting a 700+ Edps bow with essences best way is to buy a spine bow with a fractured element of T3+ and hitting essences till you get both other elements

[@blakerichards7210]

@@LeeSimp9029but I agree bow builds do take more to come online over like TR where you can do all content on a quill rain

[@ShuffleWind1]

Grimro changing everyone's league start choices in the last second before leaguestart

[@theroyalcam]

with the 5 way exp nerfs etc, what do you think will happen to legion regarding currency making? as good as always? or are emblems gonna be super low price?

[@Grimro]

I can't fully predict how this will play out but I personally am not concerned about the profitability of Legion whatsoever.

[@Nionqp]

Selling emblem isnt a significant part of legion farming anyway so you should worry too much

[@imaika281]

What is the wandering path tech you're referring to at 6:30ish? I get the logic behind it but I'm not sure exactly when racers would spec into wandering path. I like pushing the story pinnacles day 1

[@Keschoo]

Grimro one question to Legion specialist, does running legion in white maps is OK or T16 have some additional benefits?

[@Grimro]

T16 grants a large bonus to Legion's loot so I would recommend trying to reach t14 maps personally.

[@knappieboy]

This looks like a lot of fun but im not sure i could ever play a squishy build again after playing Pathfinder artillery ballista from last league. Got my first 100 since i started in 2016, absolutely insane build with the crucible passive tree!

[@Grimro]

It's certainly not going to be for everyone. Gratz ont he 100.

[@Xirpzy]

I regret not playing crucible. This new league doesnt seem as broken and simple. But we'll see. I look forward to new atlas tree stuff.

[@MyNameIsSalo]

these builds dont feel squishy whatsoever, 5k life 30k evasion 100% spell suppression makes it near impossible to die to anything except uber bosses and some unique stuff like beyond bosses and scourge bosses. But 99% of the game you can facetank

[@the445566]

I’ll be swapping off rain to LA at innocence and then to ts at innocence once again. Ts feels great early as well

[@NotMVP]

If you couldn’t start bows, what would be your next choice? Great content Grimro

[@Grimro]

If I couldn't start bow's I would start Corrupting Fever or Poison BV.

[@duckyplays4331]

For more single target could you add the totem nodes on the passive tree like you did a couple leagues ago with your LA build? That was my first LA run, using your spreadsheet, and it was strong. Current builds seem to ignore the totem nodes though. What would you be giving up to go that route?

[@IRonIcScopez]

Woah bow build thats a crazy shakeup from the norm.

[@Kanuka_poe]

Do you have any updated PoB's for 3.22?

[@mikeweatherford5312]

I prefer the Raider version.. throw on a lightning coil and taste of hate.. 60% phys taken as ele, does not *have* to be squishy. Once you get your headhunter, switch over to Queen of the forest with 45+k evasion, all move speed tree nodes, still insta clear everything, and tanky enough, with 500+% move speed. Played it last league, was pretty awsome, going Hexblast mines this league to shake things up.

[@kermeckgashi]

Yo kermeck here, your missing on Poison TS PF grimro its a banger been testing it, obviously far better than fyres famous build KEKW

[@Grimro]

Hmmm poison has never really been my Vibe but maybe I'll test it out next time.

[@kermeckgashi]

@@Grimro with asenaths its crazy clear speed but bossing is bad so its only a mapping build but it can get dot capped with some investment

[@Karlitooworld]

IDK what it is with you. Maybe it's the way you talk. But you are very good at selling your builds. I do want to start with this build now.

[@FPET03]

classic Grimro W, thanks!

[@BeyondMagick]

There is any updates to make on you Google sheet notes/POBs from 3.21? I was testing my runs using it, and it's fantastic! Thank you! :)

[@Grimro]

Honestly I don't have any changes for myself but if you are interested in some alternative perspectives check out Tuna's guide and if you want even more perhaps Kobe's although I haven't watched Kobe's guide at this time.

[@BeyondMagick]

@@Grimro Thank you for the reply! Then I will follow your doc as it is. Have a great league start tomorrow!

[@NagaDaYosh]

Oh cool, I’m changing my league starter for the 5th time in 2 days…

[@txniinja9349]

How do you feel ice shot compared to lightning arrow now with the new Vaal skills and buffs

[@MyNameIsSalo]

vaal skills are irrelevant on both skills. Fun to press but they don't add anything to the build. Ice shot has always been behind LA for clearspeed, but it's a very minor difference so feel free to pick whatever you prefer.

[@txniinja9349]

@@MyNameIsSalo does the vaal ice shots archers not give more single target dps with all the arrows? Or is it just not noticeable

[@Cryttanz]

Yo, sharing any atlas strats before league launch?

[@latentessence]

MIssed you big guy. New league lets gooooo

[@Raven_TM]

Hey grimro, do you think starting a cf champ with the new dagger setup is a bad idea? LA is my fallback build but really want to give CF another go. I want to follow the maxroll guide for it

[@Grimro]

Unfortunately I haven't kept up to speed on corrupting fever since I played it, if the guide is on maxroll though you can be pretty confident it's been heavily reviewed so there shouldn't be any issues starting it especially if you follow along with the creators stream who wrote it (I believe it is made by tripolarbear).

[@Raven_TM]

@@Grimro it seems really interesting as it solved the early game horrrrrible single target damage. I'm not that good at currency making to reach god tier clear speed ASAP. Although I fear the immunity danger with the new expedition keystone you explained as I want to farm expedition amap but the build is pure physical obv. We'll see, if I fail I'll just reroll to LA :)

[@RainNColer]

​@@Raven_TM I've been testing it in standard on an old CF character since i want to league start it again, and i gotta say although KB has better clear than ST, the coverage is still amazing. And as you said, the biggest upside of that setup (apart from Cold Iron Point being cheaper than Poet's Pen) is the damage boost from the gem levels, i was able to drop 2 triple DoT jewels (character had 4, 2-3 divines each) and 1 notable from each large cluster, and the build felt roughly the same damage wise. So yeah, the +6 from 2 CiPs is kinda huge. Personally i would keep that setup until i have all the good stuff (triple dot jewels, 3 notable clusters, +1 ammy, etc), and then go back to the godly feeling of KB pops.

[@Raven_TM]

@@RainNColer thank you for this! Although do you think cf st early game can match the clear speed of LA? I know the late game is godly for both but will cf be much slower?

[@RainNColer]

@@Raven_TM I would say once you get the gloves it's pretty close, lets say below 2 divines, LA doesn't have that much damage, while with CF you already have your CiPs, gloves and 5L CF, but once LA gets on the 5div range it gets ahead. LA is the best clearing league starter, but CF is easily a close second, and let me tell you the difference in defence is a hundred times more noticeable.

[@kurozu4907]

I never farmed legion is there anything I should be aware of like saving incubators or do I just sell the emblems and use incubators?

[@MyNameIsSalo]

use ornante/divinators as they have the same kills to proc so all your gear is in sync. sell skittering and 6L one, ignore the rest. You drop so many that you will have 100x more incubators than you can use, and most of them are unsellable.

[@kidguru88]

Out of curiosity since I'm thinking of starting with your guide what's the reason for going raider instead of deadeye and transitioning to TS if you've got some time.

[@aka_LocK]

Pretty sure he goes over that in his other video on this build, so I would watch those too if I were you. But it basically comes down to QoL on gearing/passives, being much more flexible.

[@Grimro]

I went for raider last league for the easy access to suppression and ailment avoidance without relying to much on gear. Deadeye is also exceptional though and offers some very nice bonuses, either choice is a great one in my opinion.

[@Fenisbla]

any high end pobs please? :)

[@catsoffon]

Welcome back from Honkai Grim! Hehe

[@aipahdyano4429]

Imma go LA too might switch to TS later if the league is good. Let’s tell everyone it’s unplayable without vengeance cascade so we not the most popular skill. ;-)

[@Frey_64]

YOO! what is up Grim, Guy here.

[@littledoseTM]

GrimBow playing Bows, we all shocked :D

[@Dreckerr]

Hey Grim, what does your initial Atlas strategy look like?

[@Grimro]

Video in a couple hours.

[@Dreckerr]

@@Grimro thanks!!

[@g.waits4gainz205]

cheeeeeeeeeeeers~~~~ im heart broken that vengent cascade got removed cause of the free damamge for noobs like me that want ot try LA, but im glad to know that even with the nerfs, its still just such a good mechanical delivery system that icarries damage and engame build swaps hardddddddd~~~~ I HAVE NO IDEA IF ILL SURVIVE TRYING TO DO LEGIONS BUT GL TO US! im probably starting pconc into impending doom PF cause while i want to try pconc leveling again anyway, i desperatlyyyyyyyy need toxic rain as a perfect fall back build cause im going to this league almost 100% blind and i have no idea what mechanics i wnat ot play so chaos it is. legion will be brutal but theres a chance that for slow peopel like me, the schism mechanic could let me stil lget significant generic value out of legions so cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeers

[@GwynWitt]

If you could put into words, what is the difference between your version and Tuna's version? I noticed you use different uniques and ascendancies. To me it seems like your version is more zoom oriented and Tuna's is more survivability and damage.

[@jshh2655]

That's correct, Grim plays for speed Tunas build on maxroll is more about encompassing everything as that is a core goal of maxroll builds

[@jordanvitelli9906]

Tuna or Kobes guide?

[@jordanvitelli9906]

Tuna vs Kobe’s guide. Which is better?

[@Grimro]

Both are fine but I know Tuna quite well and like his builds so I recommended Tuna's in this video.

[@wykettou]

It will be my league start but Ice Shot version!

Actually with new VC and right investment, proje speed dmg mastery it will do more damage, unles i made mistake in calculations :p

[@smokenotes7655]

The projectile speed is only on the returning projectiles, which only have 39% of base damage (61% less) and that low damage is then increased by the proj speed modifier, which is hardly anything since it's just Increased, not More. Not to mention the support gem you are losing, which would often just be straight up more damage.

@@smokenotes7655 that's true, but I was talking about end game gear. Easily bigger damage

[@TheDarksidir]

anyone know what is the name of the things that explode those red arrows arround him?

[@SirKnightDusan]

Rampage effect.

[@dominikbade9674]

Would you also recommend going LA champ or its way to bad dmg?

[@WinterOnsen]

theres 0 reason to go champ la on SC over deadeye

[@MyNameIsSalo]

if you're playing SC, you're not picking champion for anything. SC is damage and speed, other ascendances do it better than champ.

[@Chiefsia]

welp time for all LA build items to be expensive for the first couple of days. However it is an amazing build and would recommend to anyone that loves blasting maps but doesnt mind struggling against bosses in the early stages!

[@lhatten512]

What can get expensive? The uniques are all super common and can’t really be expensive. If your buying the bow you need to learn how to Essence craft it yourself because it very easy. The only thing that could get expensive is you second bow that could use a fracture but at that point you should have the currency just from the raw speed of the build…. Not sure what can really get all that expensive about it.

[@benja9029]

if you're buying bows for league start that means you just someone's failure for atleast double the price that player used to attempt for their upgrade

[@lhatten512]

@@benja9029 exactly. Buying anything but bases is a total waste. Everything else in the builds is cheap uniques and life/res gear. It can’t get to expensive.

[@ytloginn]

Time for the dunes legion farm Poggers

[@dennism.5145]

How to deal with reflect maps during early atlas completion?

[@Grimro]

Re-roll them with scouring orb.

[@scrtwpnx]

Is blast rain good?

[@Bittler87]

Now I am torn between this and Toxic Rain Ballista Pathfinder!

[@gnauben]

my 2 cents: the TR ballista build should be nicer with bosses but imo the delay of the totems when firing their shots is really annoying for me. the instant damage on LA with the great clear is something else

[@Bittler87]

@@gnauben For sure, my only hesitation is the squishiness of Deadeye vs the tankiness of Pathfinder. Especially considering that I plan on Delving a bunch.

[@talenus2712]

Could this work with Tornado shot instead of lighting arrow?

[@btarczy5067]

Lightning Arrow gets a bit more damage starting out but you can switch to Tornado Shot without changing the tree now that VC is gone so just try it out every once in a while to see how it feels.

[@MydrecaNaPopa]

Is rain of arrows better while doing the campaign

[@MyNameIsSalo]

I use RoA until early maps and it works really well

[@Joernzen]

Dont make me play this a third time... its ... just... too...good.

[@HFTVChannel]

If you were to go a MF Variant , would you still go Raider or Deadeye?

[@Grimro]

Both are fine but going MF you have very limited defensive options so I'd probably go all in on glass cannon and go deadeye.

[@HFTVChannel]

@@Grimro sweet, I've played a chunckload of different builds, but this will be my first time mfing so I'm looking forward to that experience, thanks for the input!

[@DrFl3sh]

what do you mean with "nobody will be using this mechanic any longer"? every single updated guide or discussion about LA is saying that returning projectiles support is the way to go

[@Grimro]

Not all of them maxroll.gg/poe/build-guides/lightning-arrow-deadeye-league-starter/skill-gems-passive-tree

[@DrFl3sh]

@@Grimro i see now, so the builds that are not using it are the ones who use chain, the ones wo focus on pierce are all using return projectiles

[@rnz01]

good for logbook farm?

[@michaelhogge8669]

What's up guys ....GRIM HERE

[@pilotomeuepiculiares3017]

Is Lightning Arrow much better than Ice shot?

[@Grimro]

In my opinion it is better yes.

[@Dunao]

the new gem is still 39% more damage + the extra clear behind you, no? i will 100% use it instead of some generic damage gain like wed or so, even if its significantly weaker than 3.21 VC

[@Grimro]

Hm maybe I should also give it a test on league start.

[@joshuahensley9395]

Let's be real if vengeance cascade hadn't been a thing, we would be loosing our shit over return proj.

[@ejun251]

Any chance for a video on alternatives for those who don't like playing totem builds?

[@Avan7gard]

its not a totem build, you just use your totems on the bosses or some elites, which is like 5% of the gameplay

[@NessNT]

Icicle mines deadeye or iceshot deadeye?

[@Grimro]

Whichever one you think sounds like the most fun.

[@scrambledflan5851]

The problem with Grimro videos is he’s too persuasive. Yes grimro is saying why he’s doing it, but he’s gets you in his hooks and convinces me it’s a good idea to start. Last league really sucked for me early game especially first week. I had issues with crucible mobs especially the uniques last league. Just instant splat at times, which is quite offputting. Maybe those cod omens might make it feel better, but just randomly dying at times just feels ugh. But that’s the bow playstyle. Farm fast and die fast, get more currency so you can farm faster and hopefully not die as often. Repeat until HH. Stilll.. maybe I should give this another shot. Surely it will be even better this time. I mean Acts was good and fast…..oh no…..

[@MyNameIsSalo]

crucible mobs destroyed everyone, it's why we all started skipping them

[@alterego5415]

Not as champion

[@Grimro]

I always recommend playing what is most appealing and you know you'll have the most fun doing.

[@panda93247]

Lol finally someone that isn't starting hexblast mines

[@Brakthir]

Looks like its another bow league for me, hell yeah

[@WOMFT]

Technically ain't no nerf since it was a 1 league thing 😂

[@Spewf]

🔥LOGIN 🎆

[@EnjoyGengar]

Every league is a miner league this is no exeption ;)

[@mati._.8074]

can this build do a t16 100% deli map without items worth hundreds of divines like mageblood or some other stuff?

[@jshh2655]

No

[@mike-8381]

pog

[@ZenOnYch]

huh, which Wandering Path tech? I'd love to get to Eater in 10 hours! Please share it.

[@Grimro]

Will include it in the next video which will come before league start.

[@ZenOnYch]

@@Grimro thanks!

[@Max-qd2lf]

LOGINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

[@evalinor]

hyrry ire price at day 1 - 8 divine xD

[@Grimro]

I personally don't use that one myself.

[@EnjoyGengar]

New torment mechanic for this build will be great too.

[@Member_zero]

I wonder. With LA you often offscreen monsters, so it's possible to just kill off the ghosts by mistake. Which means no possession. Always happens to me. The 3 spirits near boss don't help, since the whole idea is for you to then touch monsters - again before killing them. You can do it 50 times, which is hard on such ranged character. I think that mechanic would be much more insane on a RF or Boneshater build. Or maybe something like Rain of arrows (which is easy to switch to and from LA, since both benefit from similar gear). RF might be tricky even - it all depends on how fast the "touching" occurs. If you don't touch any mobs, it's probably pointless.

[@EnjoyGengar]

@@Member_zero You do still get benefit of effect from torment. Like souleater if you get lucky. This will be my first ting i will test in the new league.

[@biravijnya]

YOOOO

[@kneine15]

Yo

[@NathOSRS]

yo

[@steezy2314]

zipper

[@maCAWfactory]

Reeeeeeeeee

[@blizzinitupgaming197]

Yooooooo

[@damienpapson366]

Foist

[@TheSchultzZ]

YOOOOOOO WHAT IS THE UP THE GUYS!!

[@bazdarinothebizier9085]

Hard disagree on this build being "advanced". It is as brainless as it gets, probably BiS for any d4 refugees incoming due to the brainless ranged playstyle.

[@Grimro]

Fair enough guess it's a little less defensive than RF though for example meaning you gotta dodge around a bit.

[@tonyhuynh4898]

Do you have a guide about the wandering path atlas passive tree?

[@Grimro]

Will include it in the next video which will come before league start.