Pokemon Gen 4 In-game Tier List: Reject Humanity, Return to Chimchar | Diamond and Pearl

[@Sam-oz8pn]

30:39 I just did the calc and apparently a *4X EFFECTIVE* STAB Rock Slide from an uninvested Onix doesn’t even KO frail Charizard; it does 85% max. Charizard’s *RESISTED* STAB Fire Blast cleanly returns the 2HKO, and Charizard is faster so it literally would win that battle. Even without using any coverage. Onix sucks lol

[@ImportedCheese]

I've pinned this comment as required reading. Onix sucks.

[@acsu96]

@@ImportedCheese I like Pokemon Challenges' discussion of Onix. SEWADDLE has a higher attack stat than Onix.

[@An_Entire_Lime]

@@acsu96 Sewaddle is based

[@uandresbrito5685]

Invested Onix? Is the Charizard invested? Any IVs abilities considered? This seems really absurd, damn

[@alfredmedina9271]

@@uandresbrito5685 It isn't. Look for False Swipe Gaming's evaluation of Onix, AND EVEN in gen I, the most broken one, Onix CANNOT even kill Alakazam using its most powerful move there: Explosion. Alakazam survives with 5% of its HP and is able to retaliate and kill it. And as everyone knows, Alakazam has paper thin defenses. THAT is how bad its atk stat is.

[@ToaArcan]

Munchlax: Takes about two weeks to find. Barry, who can't sit still long enough to count to five: Has one. And a Heracross too.

[@ImportedCheese]

He probably got them from his Fronteir Brain dad, the system is corrupt!

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Barry is why the Heracross and Munchlax are so hard to find. They actually aren't that rare of encounters, Barry just snipes all of them, leaving you with male Combee and Wurmple.

[@dragontamer108]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 this is my headcanon now, thanks

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Barry is using hacks

[@AniGaAG]

I mean, Barry _does_ have a better name than the player character. Who names their kid THUD!!...?

[@LordEpos]

Actually, Kricketune is S-tier because hearing its cry every battle makes you enjoy the game more and makes you want to get to the end more, which is really strong.

[@ImportedCheese]

Can't argue with that, guess I gotta redo the list

[@SonicatorBob]

@@ImportedCheese Dude, I swept Roark, Mars and Gardenia with Kricketune.HE IS INSANE

[@SonicatorBob]

@@ImportedCheese he should be S not S-

[@rainthedraconic402]

Caught a shiny in arceus, named her Caramella.

[@wyattsnider8966]

@@SonicatorBob had Kricketot during the 2nd? Battle against Barry. Last Pokémon and it tanked enough to get Bide off with 2 health.

[@AwesomeRaptor21]

Argument for Abra in S Tier: In Oreburgh City, you can trade a Machop for Kazza the Abra. Machop is available immediately to the north so getting it is not a problem. In Jubilife City, you can pick up the TM for Hidden Power, where the type and power is determined by the pokemon's Individual Values (IVs). Kazza has set IVs no matter what, and the Hidden power it gets is the Ice type. With Abra's high Special attack paired with Ice being an excellent offensive typing, Kazza can dish out some great damage in the early game. Add bonus experience due to Kazza being a traded pokemon, and Kazza will evolve into a Kadabra before you know it. The ONLY thing that could be a downside is that if you level it up too quickly it will start disobeying you. Kazza is just THAT good.

[@UmbraStarWolf]

I remember using kazza in my first platinum playthrough it was so good

[@Manectric7]

Yeah so? Kadabra suffers as it needs to be traded in order to unlock its full potential. Meanwhile, i can get Gardevoir with no problems at all.

[@oodogla]

@@Manectric7 as long as you either know someone with a gen 4 game or have a trading server it isn't very hard to evolve kadabra, and so you can have an Alakazam at level 16 that early in the game.

[@gypsysprite4824]

so the problem with trade evolutions in the DS pokemon games, ESPECIALLY gen 4 is that....alot of people use emulator nowadays, even for the many that have physical copies simply because gen 4 is so god damn slow that emulator easily becomes the optimal way to play the games because they can speed gen 4 way the hell up and for the record, the main DS emulators don't have netplay in the slightest. this means trade evos and spiritomb legit don't exist for emulator players if they don't cheat. (or do what I do and make a hack to remove the problem in a way that still makes you work for it. editors are fun)

[@jesserobertson8397]

@@gypsysprite4824 i trade with myself on emulator, trade kadabra for kadabra and they both evolve then save and got them

[@xxElyonxx]

bidoof is unironically my all time favourite pokemon, and i love putting it on my competitive teams purely to see my opponent's reaction when i hit them with a shadow ball. nobody ever expects shadow ball on a bidoof

[@linksora7120]

Bidoof is actually a decent pokemon especially compared to other early game rodents: defence curl rollout wrecks early game pokemon who don't tend to resist rock moves, water gun at 15 immediate stab as it evolves, headbutt not that late which is strong for most of the game, simple and unaware have good uses as abilities and it's not even super frail or super weak, it's just balanced. Nothing incredible but actually is an alright pokemon

[@machina5]

I imagine the usual reaction to getting hit by a Shadow Ball from a Bibarel is something like "lmao, ok" lol

[@AniGaAG]

@@machina5 Pretty much, yeah; not sure what OP is trying to say. I mean, no, I wouldn't expect it... but I also wouldn't worry about it.

[@MrMitchbow]

opponents seeing a bidoof sent out; I expect the unexpected. opponents seeing a bidoof use shadow ball; as expected.

[@ILiekFishes]

i mean nice base 35 spatk?

[@jakobkleeman6705]

Ok Rapidash, we are gonna give you a bunch of moves with varied types so you can hit ANYTHING for super-effective damage!! First up is Fire, because you're a horse on fire, after all. Great grass coverage. Next we'll give you Poison Jab, for some extra grass coverage. We'll also give you Megahorn, for some extra grass coverage. Let's throw in Bounce too, for extra... grass... coverage... Rapidash: Do I get any other types or am i just really good at deforestation? You get Iron Tail to miss a quarter of the time against Rock types who It'll take 3 hits to kill with anyway and can kill you in one EQ. Rapidash: That's IT?! No, SolarBeam too, so you can hit with that beautiful 80 special attack at level 40. Oh yeah, and those last two were only by TM. Have fun. This is absurd.

[@tdawgmaster1729]

Might as well give it HP Ice too, for extra deforestation

[@danielgreene9656]

“Gen 1 is a clown fiesta” I love this mans commentary sm

[@trubb225]

One thing you missed about Bibarel. All of its HMs it can use except for rock smash are all STAB boosted. Strength, Waterfall, ETC. You could genuinely give it an amazing moveset with those two alone.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Bibarel with Strength, switch hitting with Waterfall and Surf, and some wild fourth move is really really good, and it hurts when people dismiss Bibarel like that.

[@miscellaneoof]

Strength, waterfall, surf and rock climb is fine for bibarel

[@duncathan_salt]

looking forward to the platinum in-game tier list so I can go "well akshually, in diamond and pearl,"

[@itachiissad]

I love when he says “nobody playing on a ds” and there’s me who still playing on my original ds lite

[@mfspectacular]

Your average phone can run the games better, especially if you bump the framerate up. No reason to play on the ds anymore

[@inthegrass11]

@@mfspectacular shut up Nintendo DS gang 4 lyfe

[@mfspectacular]

@@inthegrass11to add onto that, not having rom hacks means you gotta deal with gamefreaks aged-like-milk game design. Have fun w that lol. Just download an emulator on your phone or jailbreak a switch

[@inthegrass11]

@@mfspectacularI got a flash cart for that reason, would definitely recommend that over playing on a phone.

[@mfspectacular]

@@inthegrass11 i forgot about those. Still, i dont see the point in keeping a ds beyond collecting

[@christinekatzman2164]

Chimchar: Why wouldn't you pick me? Me who love penguins, especially cute ones, and wants to minimize early game grinding: Observe.

[@ImportedCheese]

You fool...that's not O P T I M A L!

[@PlayerZeroStart]

Me, who picked Turtwig when I was 7 and now refuses to pick anything else in Gen 4: I just think he's neat.

[@rugvedkulkarni1593]

@@PlayerZeroStart I like turtles

[@Leet-iz2fz]

Me who has picked only fire and water starters throughout my playthroughs (Froakie/Charmander in X, Torchic in OR, Tepig in Black 2, Popplio in Moon, Scorbunny in Sword), and wants a change of pace in the sinnoh remakes: *No*

[@cmdrfrosty3985]

How does one not get to level 14 before Roark

[@Anodyne_Akôn]

15:50 - 17:31 Satarptor is no joke ; it beats you up and take tour lunch money.

[@ImportedCheese]

It's the edgelord combover, it cannot be stopped.

[@Anodyne_Akôn]

*Your lunch money ; it beats you up so hard, you start making stupid typos.

[@oodogla]

@@Anodyne_Akôn you can edit comments

[@GKoopa]

They didn't just forget to translate pachirisu, that's the pikaclone name gimmick! They never translate their names, you know, just like pikachu

[@Vexal50]

yeah, just found this channel, seems he doesn't do his research tbh :V

[@mynameskris]

@@Vexal50 "doesnt do his research" the pikaclone fact is relatively niche, cant blame him for not knowing.

[@alfredmedina9271]

You should do a Platinum one as well, as it is a MUCH BETTER game overall and the improved Pokedex is one of the best in the entire series. Not to mention, Chimchar gets even better, stupidly so, because he has access via tutor to 2 moves I always teach him: Fire Punch and Thunder Punch. Fire Punch is an even better Flame Wheel, in case you don't want recoil damage from Flare Blitz. Thunder Punch is much better than Grass Knot. It grants him coverage to Flying and Water, two of his most troublesome counters. Not to mention that Thunderpunch OHKOes Gyarados and Mantine, really troublesome Pokemon for him.

[@scrapyarddragon]

That intro man, that is the good stuff.

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you! Stone Edge has a high critical hit ratio!

[@GyroCannon]

Wow I had Platinum after a 6 or 7 year hiatus from Pokemon so I didn't know what people had to deal with in Diamond / Pearl, but literally having only 2 choices for Fire types, one of which is a starter... Who in Gamefreak thought that was a good idea?

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

It is based on sun wukong. One of the most powerful characters in fiction before there was universe and multiverse busting.

[@vyor8837]

Incorrect. More or less the entire indian pantheon is on a higher level.

[@DrDrao]

@@vyor8837 As an indian, I disagree. The indian pantheon is busted when it needs to be, but then there's also times when mega gods are defeated by an old woman's prayers. I'd say the Christian/jewish god before anything else, definitely. There's also the Chinese interpretation of Buddha. The original wasn't mush more than a wise fellow, but the chinese version may as well be the Christian god, with the sheer powercreep they introduced. In fact, in the journey to the west, wukong is sent on the journey after buddha clowns on him.

[@tdawgmaster1729]

@@DrDrao Discussing powercreep when referring to gods in real-world religions is peak gamer moment

[@natnew32]

Driflook appears very early, you just have to beat the galactics housing there and you're good. Also starts with Gust. DESTROYS Gardenia.

[@linksora7120]

Also get at a good level right after valley windworks to use right away in the team without worry of grinding and so many bug and grass types coming up as well as a fighting gym it's at least great until after maylene where it'll evolve and actually then be able to learn better moves.

[@bobjoe3492]

Only appears on Friday though

[@leaffinite2001]

@@bobjoe3492 changing the time on your ds is extremely easy though

[@troublemakers101green]

@@leaffinite2001 changing the time on a ds penalizes you and you can't get it for another week

[@leaffinite2001]

@@troublemakers101green ok i guess, i dont remember that happening

[@xaropevic7918]

At least if someone corrects something that only is in Pokémon Platinum, that will help in the KZbin's algorithm

[@ImportedCheese]

AkShUaLlY, iN pLaTiNuM...

[@TheRiddler6129]

Tropius is only in Pokemon Platinum.

[@cashcloakburmy]

This isn’t a list about Platinum, but in Platinum I recently used an in-game team centered around Hippopotas and Sand Stream, and it’s one of the most fun experiences I’ve ever had in-game. Sand doesn’t actually hurt you much if your team is offensive enough; rather, it supplements your offense. You know those gross times when the opponent hangs on with 4 HP? With infinite sand, that doesn’t happen anymore. Combined with Stealth Rock, it allows Hippowdon to support the whole team while still being great on its own. I absolutely love it.

[@cashcloakburmy]

This is also true for Snover to a lesser extent, but Sandstorm is better for the rest of the team. I should try using Abomasnow again soon, though.

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@cashcloakburmy Sandstorm at least can be ignored with 3 types, which opens lots of dual-typing options for you. Hail is just ice and it's also a terrible type. Not to count sandstorm gives your rock types SpD

[@zaclittlejohn2701]

In the remakes I did a full ground type team. With heavy hitters like torterra, underground+breeding to get fangs ryhorn and garchomp already covering your offence hippopotas with smooth rock setting stealth rock is amazing.

[@cashcloakburmy]

platinum suddenly entered my brain again so i looked back at this lol. wanna expand on my original comment Team was Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Rampardos, Magnezone, Clefable, Golduck. Rampardos isn’t as good as people think until very late but team was still goated. A few other notable options for Hippowdon teams: Garchomp and Gliscor cheese the entire game under sand. Use Rhyperior over Rampardos if you want a good rock type. Scizor in Sand extends the range for its low-BP moves to take names. And Roserade gets Weather Ball which is extremely silly and fun.

[@originalrkmorton]

Hearing an explanation of the ancient ways of the Physical/Special split always makes my old age flare up. No experience with Gen 4, just enjoying the content.

[@starsoficarus3915]

Really enjoy these videos, since it’s relaxing to listen to while doing chores.

[@carlozeno8811]

Jokes on you i actually had the patience to wait for a heracross encounter, got one with an adamant nature and he carried me all the way through the hall of fame I wouldn't recommend it to anyone but if you have the patience to sit through litteral days to catch it it'll singlehandedly win the game for you

[@matthewmullins4046]

Or, just pick MONKE

[@alysshart7522]

I’m interested in how the BDSP in-game tier list would work. You can get a bunch of random Pokemon, like Pinsir, really early, and there’s also the Mew, Jirachi, and Manaphy you can get.

[@ImportedCheese]

I dunno if it's fair to count pay2win mythicals, but they'd probably be S+

[@vanitaspero1043]

Who cares? Those games suck anyway

[@frickinfrick8488]

I picked up pokemon Pearl recently and usually when I play a new game I like to look through the new pokemon they added to build a team of them. I swear like 70% of the new sinnoh pokemon I wanted to use weren’t even available until postgame, late game, or were absurdly frustrating to encounter. Most of the routes have identical encounters, you get to pick from like 10 species of pokemon. It’s like pokemon but without the fun part.

[@ImportedCheese]

They gotta make an unplayable game so that you buy Platinum, bro.

[@dugsbunnyog3544]

Thank you nobody ever agrees with me. D/P are so trash when it comes to team building

[@randomname285]

Great vid again, dont really have any major quibbles with placements on this one but just thought I'd give you a comment to feed the algorithm

[@ImportedCheese]

Thanks as always for your support! Let's! Returning to Monke!

[@lelis8344]

Psyduck deserved at least a high C tier. It can hold its own. A solid water type choice IMO

[@BHox01]

I think what sets DP Psyduck apart from its other iterations is the availability. Even if you don't need it (because every starter wipes Roark no problem), being available and contributing before the first gym is pretty unique among non-starter water types across the series

[@LordRemiem]

@@BHox01 I remember using a Golduck in Platinum and being very satisfied by it... and I literally caught him in the cave just before Roark's town! Don't know if you can find it in the same location in D&P

[@canaldecasta]

Binge-watching all of these. Im gonna make some reruns with mons from tier D, fun mellow challenge

[@mynameskris]

26:32 roserade is a shiny stone evolution, which is found in NEAR THE EIGHTH GYM. i remember this because dawn stones are for gender specific stone evos, AKA only froslass and gallade.

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

Pick up. Get a Pachirisu and you can get roserade after the first gym

[@mynameskris]

@@nicksomethingorother2457 at level 41 and above

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

@@mynameskris Ah yeah. I was thinking of BDSP, but yes in Gen 4 you’ll get it around gym 6 still earlier than 8

[@mynameskris]

@@nicksomethingorother2457 i would still put it in low tier because of the rarity of the item, youre better off just waiting til you actually find the shiny stone near the 8th gym.

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

@@mynameskris Yeah in DP I’d agree with that. Not in any other game that Shiny stones are more easily obtainable though. Roserade is really good.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Me teaching my Clefable Fire Blast: "Who needs fire types?"

[@iyou540]

Just chilling and then you went past Pachi without mentioning that it gets Pickup. I'd never argue it was good but it is helpful. I also think you can dig up the evolution stone for Roselia in the underground? It has been quite awhile since I have been in Sinnoh so I maybe wrong

[@glurak888]

Only the Eevee stones before the national Dex. Yes, it's fucked

[@miscellaneoof]

You get the evolution stone (shiny stone) via pickup

[@iyou540]

@@miscellaneoof so Pachiruisu still being useful

[@miscellaneoof]

@@iyou540 yes

[@mynameskris]

only in platinum, you can find a hidden shiny stone in route 210

[@neithermannormachine]

I’ve watched all these different tier videos like 16 times and I don’t know why but they are peak cheesy entertainment

[@ImportedCheese]

EZ to make, too. EZ Mac?!

[@neithermannormachine]

@@ImportedCheese cheEZy Mac!

[@RinaShinomiyaVal]

Gible is suffering in Diamond and Pearl. Requires so much coddling to catch it up. I dont bother with it in DP at all. One of the things im glad Game Freak did in Platinum was remove the Strength rocks and the need for Flash for where Gible could be found. For some reason TM26 Earthquake is also there. Dragon Rage + EQ on Gible with 2 Badges and a Bicycle LOL. Little landshark got redeemed heavy in the upgraded Sinnoh game. Not sure if any other Pokemon got this lucky from DP to Platinum. Im blanking out. Does anyone know any other examples?

[@mynameskris]

roselia to roserade in dp is horrible. you have to wait til the 8th fucking gym to get it, unlike in platinum where the shiny stone needed to evolve it is hidden in route 210.

[@linksora7120]

I was accepting of this, until you did my boi Shellos dirty like that in b. Yes, it's slow but it's so good defensively WHILE doing great damage with mud bomb and water pulse for a majority of the game until earthquake and surf are available it doesn't matter and at the elite 4 you can get it to 54 for recover, I struggle to play diamond and pearl nowadays WITHOUT a shellos, it's that useful

[@MsIngno]

love these... love your voice. can't wait for the rest of the gen tier lists :]

[@ImportedCheese]

Thank you! Next will be Firered/Leafgreen coming uh...eventually.

[@HJM9x]

12:50 there is no move that you want that he doesnt learn. I WANT MY CHIMCHAR TO KNOW SPLASH. FIGHT ME

[@ImportedCheese]

Infernape with Z-Splash tearing up the Gen 7 meta!

[@borby4584]

@@ImportedCheese it'd get banned from Anything Goes, let's be real

[@bobjoe3492]

Fun fact about blizzard in diamond and pearl only, during the hail it has a 30% chance to bypass protect and detect

[@jacobgranger9926]

“It’s a whole buffet of buffeting” - your quotes never fail to SLAP

[@LordRemiem]

Watching these tierlists back and I hope you'll continue on, with new ones or Charizard blasts :D

[@ImportedCheese]

We'll do Gen 5 live!

[@LordRemiem]

@@ImportedCheese can't wait 🤩

[@ponyboy9765]

Gen 4 has always been one of my favorites, specifically because of the insanely diverse selection of Pokémon early on in the game. You can have a very type diverse full team by like the second gym and take that same team all the way to the end.

[@LazurBeemz]

Unless you want fire types lol

[@ponyboy9765]

@@LazurBeemz truest shit I ever heard 😂😂

[@TheRiddler6129]

Diamond and Pearl are literally just budget versions of Platinum.

[@miscellaneoof]

Fitting too because they are a lot cheaper to buy secondhand than platinum

[@Fiendoh]

​@@miscellaneoof mostly because platinum had less versions produced

[@tabbender1232]

That's kind of every game that got a 3rd version

[@zorochii]

3:00 Slack message notification, literally gave me goosebumps. I want the sweet release of Saturday!

[@ImportedCheese]

A slack message from years ago...already long solved!

[@joelegue182]

I remember playing these games in Japanese as that was back in the days when the games came out in Japan a year before localization. Using my 6 character slots, Bidoof was cleverly named BIGBVR and Chingling was named CANDY as it looked like a piece of candy in a wrapper on my tiny Nintendo Advance screen.

[@glowingorb645]

Why I could pass all my life without this quality content?

[@tyranitararmaldo]

There are so many ground types in this game that half my ingame Diamond team was ground type. This was an accident...

[@RichardBlaziken]

Wow, it's been since... DP came out that I saw the DP dex. That's insane, this dex is crazy small!

[@ImportedCheese]

Only 150...why?!

[@danedavid6925]

The amount kinda doesn't matter, it's the quality and distribution of the Pokemon that matters

[@LordRemiem]

@@ImportedCheese nostalgic reference to the first gen (👉^-^)👉

[@adsventuresome7511]

I legitimately have gotten Tree Munchlax in a file I have on my phone. It's a Snorlax that I wasn't planning on putting on my team, but ended up there.

[@Rex.Flexington]

Yes well however in brilliant diamond and shining pearl you actually get a move called f off where u just f off and instantly do something better with life

[@ImportedCheese]

sounds like a useful move

[@Metaknighttheloneswordsman]

Nice intro made that scene funny somehow 🙃

[@bananaspice1967]

Screw fire types, me and the boys using tortoise.

[@noahwarp9]

On my first play of BDSP, my literal very first Honey Tree was a Munchlax. Haven't done the math, but I'm fairly certain that the odds of such an occurrence are lower than finding a Shiny.

[@ImportedCheese]

[@leaffinite2001]

IMO if you are going to give trade evolutions their fully evolved forms, you absolutely shouldnt penalize Drifloon of Lapras, since changing the time to Friday is something you can do really easily even on the DS.

[@ImportedCheese]

Ok! They're still kinda meh tho

[@leaffinite2001]

@@ImportedCheese yea

[@shadowgiraffe7502]

Sees Munchlax and has an immediate flashback to my Diamond Professor Oak Challenge where I had to catch and evolve one BEFORE ERIKA!!!

[@cubedmelons876]

The hilarious thing is, considering it generates on 4 trees at complete random, you're lucky the run wasn't straight-up impossible. Due to this, I refuse to ever do a Professor Oak challenge in Sinnoh.

[@dazedmoon8762]

chimchar was my first mon in the first pokemon game I played (make fun of me all you want, still have the nostalgia bias for dp), great to see all the monke love!

[@ImportedCheese]

all daipa kids will be banned

[@dazedmoon8762]

@@ImportedCheese hey, I'm not huffing enough tropium to admit they're good games 💀

[@Eminster]

Raichu is definitely the best electric type here for one reason: nasty plot

[@ImportedCheese]

why spend a turn setting up tho?!

[@bobjoe3492]

​@@ImportedCheese setting up ain't good until gen 5

[@ThumbSipper]

Bibarell is unironically too good to be wasted as an HM slave, seriously. Bidoof is found immediately at the start of the game and starts with STAB tackle, which isn't bad. It learns essentially only good attacks by level up like rollout (which combines beautifully with defense curl), headbutt, hyper fang, yawn, curse and fu***ng superpower. It also has one of the best TM pools available making it a great way to round up your team's moveset with shadow ball, thunderbolt, iron tail, ice beam and a shit ton more. But more importantly it gets the Simple ability which is insane (DOUBLES stat. modifications), in fact I strongly believe that his base stats are so mediocre just to balance out his ridiculous ability, like an inverse Slaking. Have you ever tried to use a Simple Bibarell with curse, amnesia or double team? It gets crazy strong really fast. A Bibarell with Curse, Waterfall, Return and Superpower is a force to be reckoned with (give it a citrus berry or leftovers tough) even in the late game, better then floatzel and more then comparable to gastrodon. Our shiny Golden God shall not be disrespected as an HM slave, for he is death the destroyer of worlds! And you heretic shall be the first to suffer under his Simple, devastating power.

[@nuttynate6161]

I love that chimchar is so good that, even if you don't choose it, they give you starly which is basically just chimchar with slighly different type coverage.

[@ImportedCheese]

Staraptor is great but Chimchar is definitely way better, fire good lol

[@nuttynate6161]

@@ImportedCheese Oh yeah chimchar is for sure better but *Brave Bird + Return + Close Combat* undefeated combo. Either way gen 4 early game 'mons stay winning.

[@sammy_mmantha]

You know, to bash Onix a little more. I'm doing a platinum Nuzlocke and Onix has eaten three encounters by being ohkod by critical pounds and scratches. Which meant it was the only Pokemon on the Wayward Cave encounter list I didn't have aside from gible. Guess which Pokemon I encountered and killed with a critical bubble.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think Buneary is kinda underrated. It's way bulkier than it looks, with good speed and usable offense. It's not great, by any stretch, but it can hold down its team slot. It's ironically one of the better pokemon in the game for dealing with Cynthia's Garchomp, too, being able to both outspeed it and tank a hit, which is a niche that a lot of gen 4 teams can overlook, being that her Garchomp is almost tailored to shut down offense. If you can get it, I actually think Spiritomb is B. It hits that nice balance of offense and bulk, where it doesn't die, but still kills things, and while its gimmick of no weaknesses is overrated, it actually has some pretty useful typing for the challenges the game actually throws at you. But... yeah. Almost as obnoxious as Munchlax. I think Hippopotas is honestly D. You aren't hurting for Ground types in this game, and Sand Stream is obnoxious. If it could get, I dunno, Unnerve, or Stench, I'd agree with your rating, but Sand Stream is a horrible ability for ingame, even if you build your team around it. You will never get the 15-20 minutes you spend in a playthrough waiting for Sandstorm to resolve back. Just use Wooper, or Shellos, or Barboach, or ANYTHING but Hippopotas. Same for Snover. Finneon should be top of Sea tier. It's the only fish that gets Defog. HM duty, yo.

[@Pi-eipp]

The real biggest weaknesses of piplup and turtwig is not being able to use chimchar

[@ImportedCheese]

well....and bubble forever

[@Dorf_]

Need a Pokémon Platinum tier list asap plz❤️love the vids

[@ImportedCheese]

it's....mostly the same, but garchomp is a lot better

[@icarusavery5691]

30:20 In the Gen VII dex (the largest dex), Rampardos, with 165 base attack, is tied with Mega Banette and Mega Gallade for the 10th highest attack stat among all Pokemon - beaten out by Ultra Necrozma - and the 2nd highest attack stat among all non-Legendary, non-Mythical, non-forme changed Pokemon - beaten out by Kartana at 181.

[@ImportedCheese]

ultra b*asts don't exist

[@MsMoonDragoon]

The only thing my piplups ever suffered from was the guilt of all the pokemon they've slaughtered on the path to victory road. Also, its hard to remember a pokemon that my toxicroaks didn't send to oblivion.

[@malfruemulo]

Would love a Gen 5 list! :D

[@ImportedCheese]

We'll probably make one in a livestream someday

[@miles6492]

I have never seen AoT beyond the first OP and one or two meme clips but by GOD if I didn't recognize Takehito Koyasu's voice almost immediately.

[@Circ00mspice]

Still waiting on the Platinum tier list

[@ItsOnlyLogixal]

I love slack going off in the background xD

[@internetguy7319]

ah. Beautiful intro, sir.

[@ImportedCheese]

I had a longer version (that included what Hitch/Cynthia was up to) but that ran afoul of copyright, so we just got the Stone Edge actually hitting that 80% chance.

[@acsu96]

I think if this were to include Plat you could boost Gible a lot...iirc you can get it in wayward cave much earlier in that game and chomp can turbo broken stomp the game. Other notes: pretty sure the AI sucks at seeing storm drain, so if you can get gastrodon in on a Pokemon where AI sees water move as best option, you can set up for free. Pretty fun. I also mildly object to your characterization of Milotic as discount Gyara - intimidate, bulk, phys vs special, and access to recovery make them pretty different even after availability. Cool to know Sinnoh is based on Hokkaido, somehow despite being my favorite games that's the only region I didn't know the basis for

[@acsu96]

Forgot to add I think Crobat is very solid and I think you sell it a little short. 90 atk is not great but good speed and bulk plus some great resistances let you switch it in easily, pivot to other Pokemon, etc. Unfortunately you lose sludge bomb stab and Shadow ball coverage in this gen which are solid options and I don't remember if you get cross poison.

[@ImportedCheese]

I think I mentioned that Gible was much better in plat? I might not have. I'll defend Miltoic being discount Gyarados, though. Miltoic's special attack is fine, good even, but Gyarados's physical attack is excellent, and with the criteria I'm using, if both Gyarados and Milotic had the same availability, there's no reason I'd ever pick Milotic.

[@TheBlueWizzrobe]

Bronzong in D? Sure it's more defensively oriented, but its offensive stats are still quite okay, easily enough to put it in C, and its movepool isn't bad either. I was considering making an argument for Blissey as well, but that super long clip of Blissey's health _slowly_ draining convinced me of its place in D lol

[@ImportedCheese]

Bronzing is the best defensive pokemon in the game, for sure, leagues better than Blissey, but unfortunately I don't think you need a wall in this game. If any pokemon were to move up from D to C, it would be Bronzong - I'd say if you started from Bronzong (who has...okayiiiiiiish offenses?) you could maybe argue for C, but Bronzor has 24/24 offenses (lol) which aren't going to be doing a darn thing. You're looking at about half an Onix of offense, that's uh...not doing much.

[@TheBlueWizzrobe]

@@ImportedCheese That's fair, Bronzor evolves a lot later than you would want it to for how garbage its offenses are.

[@Sam-oz8pn]

Ah, a fellow Bronzong advocate who was also brought back into the fold

[@athath2010]

I know that it wasn't intentional and doesn't really matter, but Cherubi being above Heracross in the Honey tier slightly irritates me. Also, if you don't feel like grinding up Magikarp... you don't! Once you get the Good Rod, you can use it to catch one from level 10-25 in pretty much any pool of water in the game, and if the one you caught is level 19 or higher (you can just run away from any 'karp that aren't), you can just immediately rare candy it into a Gyarados, teach it a couple of TM/HM moves (do you have Strength at that point in the game? I forget), and bam, you're good to go. Speaking of Magikarp, if you ever get around to making your HG/SS tier list, you should probably mention the ability to catch a level **50** Magikarp by surfing on Route 43, the route between Mahogany Town and the Lake of Rage (but not on the Lake of Rage itself, interestingly). You can easily search for it (or a 'karp that's close enough to it) using some repels, especially if you come back to that lake segment later in the game when your Pokemon are closer to level 50. From there, you can just pop a rare candy in it, slap the choice specs from the Lake of Rage on it (or don't if you have the HM for Waterfall), teach it some HM moves, and bam, you'll have a Gyarados that is somehow even more ridiculous than the red Gyarados.

[@DrDrao]

You also get the exp share just after the second gym, so it's not even hard to train it up manually.

[@MTGbeginnerpro]

1:00:11 “It’s a whole buffet of buffeting” lmao

[@miscellaneoof]

The one advantage of psyduck is that it’s an easy Roark counter since it’s the only water type aside from piplup before gym 1 with a water move

[@PlayerZeroStart]

And even then, rock is also weak to Grass and Fighting, so every starter has a counter for Roark.

[@miscellaneoof]

@@PlayerZeroStart all of roark’s Pokemon have bad special defence and good physical defence so water gun is best for them

[@PlayerZeroStart]

@@miscellaneoof Doesn't make much of a difference when Razor Leaf OHKO's anyways

[@thatsprettymint1942]

So, Chimchar having his own tier is pretty mint (as a fellow monke enjoyer myself), but wouldn't Kadabra/Alakazam be considered the BEST playthrough Pokemon? You can find and catch an Abra very early in gens 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 - evolve into Kadabra which has an insane special attack stat at that level and high speed, has a varied learnset getting access to strong stap psychic moves from gen 1 onwards, shadow ball, focus blast, shockwave, energy ball and MORE. Can easily solo majority of every game if not the entirety of each game with the right set up (in a casual playthrough you could just over level lmao). Even in Nuzlockes, the Abra line is nuts and easily makes S tier in every game it's available.

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

Gyarados is the best universal in game pokemon. Intimidate, awesome typing, great atk post gen 4, and pre gen 4, it still gets Strength,Earthquake,Dragon Dance, Surf which is more than enough to beat through everything. And unlike Alakazam, it can take more than two hits. Alakazam is only not S tier in nuzlocke because it’s frail af, and you don’t always have enough power to just one shot everything, and if you don’t, there’s nearly always a 1/16 chance you just die from a crit, or take a lot from the enemy. Gyarados can just take it, and it’s fine. Electric moves are very forecastable, so that’s not an issue. Lastly, if gyarados is in that game, you can always get gyarados. Magikarp if it’s in the game, is super easy to get. Abra isn’t nearly as accesible

[@thatsprettymint1942]

@@nicksomethingorother2457 counter argument: gens 1-3 didn't have the physical/special split and abilities didn't exist until gen 3, so no intimidate prior to gen 3. Gyardos is just a bulky 'mon with good typing prior to gen 4, since most of his coverage and even his Water type moves are Special. No shot he even compares to the abra line in gens 1 or 2 as well, since the elemental punches exist, and psychic types are king.

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

@@thatsprettymint1942 That’s only for two gens out of 8. Also normal types are king in Gen 1, then Psychic types. (Taurus/Snorlax/Chansey). Intimidate/DDance 100% makes up for the special/physical split not being in gen 3. Compared to Zam. DDance completely steamrolls the entire game.

[@MrDreamblader]

Chimchars ONLY downside is not enough move slots.

[@ImportedCheese]

4 moveslot syndrome?!

[@almircoelhojr.]

Yup. One more slot, and you have the ULTIMATE MONKE (Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Thunder Punch, Stone Edge and Earthquake.)

[@mrbubbles6468]

‘If you start with Chimchar’ If, he says. If.

[@ImportedCheese]

Some LOSERS pick turtwig

[@tabbender1232]

@@ImportedCheese *winners Turtwig is the chad choice

[@ruler898]

i always said that this starter trio was probably one of the more balance. Design and usability wise I don't think any of them would dissapoint anyone. I've used them all. They are all so good.

[@TheNadroj10]

Arguably along with Gen 3, best ingame starter trios. All of them are badass and useable

[@milesgerschefske6231]

I love that game freak added a pokemon to make the game feel like, the multi player lobby on a xbox 360

[@ImportedCheese]

YOUR MOM IS MY TRAINER

[@athath2010]

I'd like to contest Tentacruel being in the Sea tier. I'd actually argue that it's at the strongest it's ever been (for getting you from your house to the Hall of Fame, anyway) in a mainline Pokemon game in DP and Platinum, because holy hell, the surf tables for those games are WACK. Once you get the HM for Surf in Celestic Town (after fighting a battle with a grunt that has a level 25 Beautifly and a level 27 Croagunk), you can head back to any one of a number of routes with a 9% Tentacruel surf encounter rate that you have access to (such as Route 218, among others) and surf there for a bit (ideally with repels up) to grab a LEVEL **40** TENTACRUEL (note that the level range for them is quite large (like, 20 levels wide), so it could take a bit). You can then IMMEDIATELY teach it Surf (a STAB 90 BP water move) AND give it the FREE CHOICE SPECS that you can get if you visit the glasses guy in Celestic Town (the same place where you got the HM for Surf) in the morning to create an absolute MONSTER. It'll also know Poison Jab for some coverage if you ever come up against something that's immune to water or a Chansey or whatever. Once you've done that, it's basically already GG, but if you want to go even further beyond, you can grab some ADDITIONAL demigods from the bonkers Surf tables. Some of the notable ones are: * In DP, Quagsire can also be caught at up to level 40 immediately after you get Surf by surfing in the rainy part of Route 212, the route left of Pastoria City. Quag's stats kinda suck, but his typing is good and his natural level-up moves are AMAZING- if you catch him at level 36+, he'll know Earthquake AND Yawn, but not a non-ground type attacking move, allowing you to wall him with a flying type while you try to catch him. After you catch him, you can teach him some HM moves or whatever for coverage. Quag's bad stats can actually work to his advantage if you use him as a sacrifical Yawn user, as in my experience, he has a knack for surviving juuuust long enough to use Yawn, then faint to give another 'mon a free switch in. In Platinum, you'll have to surf in the Great Marsh if you want to catch a wild level 40 Quagsire. This is absolute CBT, even if you're using repels AND an emulator with a speed up function, because every 500 steps, the Marsh will kick you out and you'll have to run back to your surfing spot (plus, you'll have to actually CATCH the darn thing without it running away). You can get a level 40 Quagsire in the Great Marsh in DP as well, but you really, should just go for a Route 212 one instead. * You might run across a decently leveled Pelipper while searching for a good Tentacruel, and you might as well catch it. In contrast to Quagsire, its starting moves will be GARBAGE (it'll know Roost, Stockpile, Swallow, and Spit Up), but you can teach it some decent HM moves, including Fly, allowing it to replace your Fly slave. * You can find some high-leveled Golbats (and Zubats that you can rare candy into Golbats) by surfing around in caves, and if you can catch one in a luxury ball or something, Crobat's pretty neat. * You can find even higher leveled 'mons once you get to Sunnyshore city or so- the water route between Sunnyshore and Victory Road has level 50 Tentacruel in its surf tables, for example. Your main Tentacruel will probably have picked up some levels by that point, though, but if you missed Pelipper or something before and happen to encounter a level 55 one, you might as well, right? EDIT: I had forgotten that surfing in DP is slow as balls compared to Platinum, which could affect the time it takes to find a decently-leveled Tentacruel. I'd still say that it's worth it, though, especially if your DS mysteriously has a speed up function. You also, uh, don't have to be a perfectionist and go for the absolute highest leveled Tentacruel available- a level 36 or whatever specs'd Tentacruel that you "settle" for should still be able to make the game cry for uncle, especially if you keep your other powerhouses leveled with an exp share or something. tldr; Returning to monke didn't go back far enough; we should've returned to sea-based life form.

[@jontyhemme9760]

Isn’t tenta also used in the speedrun? I’m not sure how much merit that has but bc it uses glitches but hey it’s optimal. I don’t know why it’s used so I can’t say why it’s great for speedruning but it’s probably one of the reasons ur comment lists

[@borby4584]

Actually drifloon comes back once Mars is defeated, so it’s actually pretty early on

[@ImportedCheese]

Ah, that is pretty early! I don't think it helps Drifloon much, unfortunately. Defensive! Bad!

[@cyberdragonzekrom6790]

Me: "I want to go on vacation in Hokkaido." Mom: "We have Hokkaido at home." Hokkaido at home: Aomori

[@ImportedCheese]

Hey man Aomori was nice

[@AniGaAG]

There is honestly a theme here. Pokémon very often has features and design elements that scream "Oh, we are able to do this thing on this hardware (and don't consider whether we SHOULD do it)!" - the whole honey tree and Great Marsh stuff _reeks_ of that kind of mentality. It's just there because the DS allowed it, and no one asked themselves whether it's a good idea.

[@ImportedCheese]

the dream world...

[@gepapa3633]

37:27 I used one in Platinum and I can confirm it's bad most of the time and I don't think it'd be better in Diamond and Pearl

[@SMAnthonyW]

The "SSS" Sinnoh starter park of Starter + Starly + Shinx is actually OP af. And depending on the type of the starter the player picks, the team is rounded out with a combination of Shellos, Buizel, Budew, and Ponyta, which are not bad. But I guess the player needs to be setup with a good team given that Cynthia is the champion for this region...

[@ImportedCheese]

Cynthia is OVERRATED and UNDERHATED

[@highlyvurgultis3706]

The excuse of it "being cold" as the reason why there's 2 fire types falls flat when you realise there are only 2 ice types in the dp sinnoh dex. Not sure why they prioritised filling the dex with shitty mediocre water, bug and normal types but they sure did!

[@ImportedCheese]

Sinnoh might have the worst regional dex of all time

[@alexsafe1]

My friend i Been watching your channel and I find your tier lists the best and the most honest ones. Thank you so much for all the hard work. would it be possible to also make a platinum or black and white 2 list please?

[@ImportedCheese]

Bw2 someday

[@alexsafe1]

@@ImportedCheese thank you, I hope you will have a nice day

[@charallave1000]

Could you please do a platinum tierlist? i know you usually don't do the enhanced version of the generation, but I think it would be cool due to how different the pokedex is!

[@ImportedCheese]

I think Plat is different enough that I will do one someday, for sure!

[@uandresbrito5685]

@@ImportedCheese Any hope for the other updates?

[@KaiiAyrenNevaehGames]

@@ImportedCheese How about the Kanto third gen remakes, I think they would also lead to a quite different tier list without so much spaghetti code.

[@DesmondShannon87]

HALLELUJAH I'm glad someone else agrees about Chimchar

[@somenerd31415]

Buneary might make more sense in the A or even S tier in Diamond/Pearl, mainly due to a weird bug. The friendship underflow glitch is caused by using a friendship lowering item on a Pokémon in battle when its friendship is low. If the item used takes more friendship than the pokemon has, its friendship will drop below 0 and wrap back around to 255, granting access to friendship evolutions and powerful returns. Buneary starts with 0 friendship, and the town immediately after where it appears has an herb shop! if you grab a Buneary at level 12, buy an herb to use on it in battle, and then evolve it, you'll learn return right away. A base 105 speed pokemon with a full power STAB return before the 2nd gym seems quite strong. Its coverage kinda sucks outside of return and jump kick, but can be somewhat made up for with a held Bluk Berry and Natural Gift (70BP fire move, good for the bronzor team galactic likes to uses) This doesn't work in Platinum by the way, it was patched along with a bunch of other weird bugs. What a great game!

[@ImportedCheese]

maybe B, but it's n*rmal type

[@antoinepolnareff8970]

You forgeted that Steelix is on the Pokemon league route so is also "obtainable"

[@alberthcuayla1587]

I really despised Bronzor cause I saw him everywhere and those 70 Accuracy Hipnosis + Not Knowing is it has Fireproof or Levitate, it just made me cringe Everytime that i seen one

[@extrakrispy81]

Coming back after 3 years to see Turtwig in A tier is really funny now that GrASS is Ass is such a common saying around here.

[@leonsjacketre4]

Yeah but like Hoothoot evolves into Noctowl, and thats a really cool looking owl. Therefore its on my team permanently. :D

[@ImportedCheese]

Worthless stats, worthless pokemon! Strength is all that matters in this world!

[@Dw7freak]

Because of how Pokemon and siblings work, I got Pearl when I was in high school. At that time, I would replay my Pokemon games after trading mons around with my brother just so we wouldn't lose them. Unfortunately, I never did this with Pearl. Between a minor Poke-burn out and Pearl being a very long game, I only used Pearl as a nest for transferring Pokemon from Emerald and FireRed. The Pal Park once per day thing was stupid, but thankfully there was a bug where you could manipulate the DS's clock to keep doing it and they removed the limitation from Pt and HGSS anyway. Platinum was the first time I replayed a Sinnoh game, but I think I only beat it twice. Sinnoh just takes so long to beat.

[@ImportedCheese]

DaiPa are horrendous

[@airtempest8945]

I just realized something now. Platinum is the first regional dex where no type has 2 or less representitive lines. Gen 1/2: Ghost and Dragon both have 1 line in Gen 1 and 2 lines in Gen 2. Gen 3: Ice has 2 lines (No, Castform does not count, fight me). D/P: Fire has 2 representives (Also, there are like...3 Grass types for some reason too).

[@ImportedCheese]

the DaiPa dex should be illegal

[@airtempest8945]

@@ImportedCheese The disproportionate amount of Rock, Ground, Fighting and Psychic Pokémon to like...everything else in the dex is far too much.

[@Gundalow]

Its moth-HIM (male) and Wor-MAD-EM (female / madam ) it upset me greatly when I found out it wasn't worm-a-dam, now I pass this cursed knowledge to you.

[@ImportedCheese]

Good thing I'll never have to say either again because I'll never use either for the rest of my life, EZ

[@MrMitchbow]

Gible is A tier for me because it comes at a point where you can easily EV train it with decent leveled Pokémon like bibarel and floatzel. So despite the short grind it’ll easily be your best Pokémon and it pairs very well with monkey

[@ImportedCheese]

It's after Byron and strength in DPP, way too late Much better in Platinum!

[@MrMitchbow]

@@ImportedCheese hmm isn’t that 6th gym? And 4/5 are almost back to back. Not too bad at late mid game to early late game but I’m a garchomp simp

[@DKQuagmire]

i still have my old gen 4 carts, and my diamond version is still its original first playthrough. no resets. i can see my first ever level 100 team, which consisted of: Infernape, Luxray, Staraptor, Gastrodon, Roserade, and Dialga, though honerable mention to Bibarrel, for being the 6th team member for most of the entire game, as the best HM Slave ever!

[@ImportedCheese]

Sounds uh...sounds like a Sinnoh team

[@GynxShinx]

I got a Drifloon in my current run. Kicks ass, if you happen upon it ngl

[@ImportedCheese]

you'll never get me to use d*fensive pokemon

[@miles6492]

Something that some may not know, while irrelevant to a DP tierlist, is that the boulder in front of the Gible cave is removed in Platinum, and in that case it is *ABSOLUTELY* MONKE tier. Dragon resists *many* types, and its primary weaknesses are Ice, which shows up much later in the game, by which you will have a more fleshed-out team, and Dragon, which only exists in the Gible line and shows up on very few random Trainers, who are all visually distinct, and then also...Cynthia, who is hard regardless, but whose own Garchomp can get nuked by yours or by an Ice Beam if you play your cards right. So, in other words, it's easy to plan and compensate for encounters with Gible's weaknesses, and it resists MANY common types in the game, and can fight Rock and Fire types with ease with STAB EQ. In Platinum specifically, it is a good complement to MONKE and an absolute nuke regardless.

[@ImportedCheese]

I dunno, Platinum Gible is definitely better but nowhere close to Monke

[@miles6492]

@@ImportedCheese Maybe I misheard, but I thought you yourself said that Gible would be MONKE if it were available sooner! (Unless that was for DP specifically.) Still, even if it's not MONKE, it's definitely S, but I think that early, easily accessible Dragon is very, VERY good. It may not have many offensive advantages type-wise, but Garchomp's innate capabilities make up for it.

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

@@ImportedCheese Two words. Dragon Rage. It completely decimates anything early game, and you get EQ in that same cave.