Polyend Play+ and Trade-In Upgrades

[@duncan-rmi]

someone's got to give synthstrom a shout-out here, for setting a precedent. early adopters of the deluge were madly enthusiastic about the machine, but almost all of us wished that the screen used grown-up writing instead of a toddler's red crayon. they listened, they made it so, with an affordable & simple hardware retrofit. then they made the firmware open-source. I dunno, lads. I have a tracker & a play here, & while I like the tracker's sequencing paradigm, the hardware capabilities mean you need very careful planning & a bunch of other boxes. the play has barely been out of its box. I like it- it's a lot of fun, & that is after all why any of us is in this game, right? but the deluge *easily* manages all of that functionality & more, except perhaps some of the "let's just push this button & see what the machine comes up with" stuff, & to be honest, in the context of working to a brief, or with other people in the band, some of these aspects become less important than (say) having a lot of capability in a small footprint & retaining firm control over it all. again, I loved the tracker for shifting me out of the existing hw sequencer paradigm, & the play has some excellent tricks. but these days, my deluge is the daily driver.

[@distantcomets]

Plus one on love for the Deluge retrofit. I tried and failed at it with a numeric LED unit years ago, but when the OLED screen came out in conjunction with open-sourcing I jumped at picking up a used one and getting the retrofit done. The stated philosophy of wanting every Deluge ever made to be out here making music *forever* is so refreshing and groundbreaking for electronic music equipment. Replaceable battery, a software development community, upgradeable components. It's what we should be getting out of a lot more of our gear manufacturers. Well done Polyend, S/O to Synthstrom, who's next?

[@vertigev]

💯

[@barrierloss]

eh I actually am a bit worried about the precedent this sets. The play came out like a year ago. This feels more like an apple style yearly rollout than a community demanded retrofit. The deluge had years of very strong updates adding new features before they came out with the OLED thing and it was comparatively cheaper to retrofit. This is a $400 CPU swap. I get that that is a bit of an over-simplification but idk. feels weird.

[@carstensorensen154]

Deluge screen upgrade a lot cheeper....

[@njm8443]

This.

[@davidlynch4338]

Synthstrom set the bar with the Deluge, probably to the chagrin of many larger companies. $150 for a major hardware upgrade and in my case only a 1 week turnover time. The Deluge was already doing more than anything in its class, but the hardware and firmware upgrades Synthstrom has done over the years really set my expectations for all other companies. Good to see Polyend following suit. Hopefully other companies will take note as well. Synth companies should take a page out of Fender's book and focus more on creating a long lasting, modular design that stands the test of time.

[@MisterMajister]

This. I was blown away by Synthstrom's decision to make it possible for us to retrofit the Deluge's screen. I will forever be interested in their upcoming stuff, just because they are so god damn awesome with their customers. I also uses the Deluge as my daily driver (hobby only), and can't even imagine leaving without it tbh.

[@pontram]

I agree. This could come slowly into the mind of the big vendors. I saw on the Korg UK site a "Nautilus AT" upgrade option (but not available now) that seems to target users that are unhappy with their flagship synth not having aftertouch. Ok, we'll see if that comes to life. Korg seems recently be a bit insane with their price policy, and if AT retrofit for a Nautilus 88 costs 600 Pounds plus 2x 50 postage or so, it's a bit much...the AT version itself costs now 530 Pounds more than the Nautilus w/o AT, and it's not for the 73 keys version and it's not Poly AT. Regarding the Deluge, I think this machine is now very interesting for users like me, as I really wanted to have it but not without a proper display. Sadly, the instrument is not available in normal shops, which has its own charm, but needs the buyer to pay import taxes and manage paperwork (maybe that is now done by the shipping company). And if you have it, and if you are unhappy with it, I don't now, send it back to NZ...instead to Thomann...or sell it on ebay...that's a bit adventurous.

[@Bigfamilyhomestead]

I have owned both- Synthstrom took my money for the last hardware upgrade, and never delivered... 9 months later, they did send a refund, but I had to ask for it.

[@davidlynch4338]

@@Bigfamilyhomestead That is sad to hear... I know most people had a fast and positive experience with the upgrade, but when Dom Hawken passed away Synthstrom was set back quite a bit. There were only a few people in each region who were allowed/capable of doing the mod. Anomalies aside, companies doing hardware upgrades instead of just a MKII is a good thing. Hopefully the practice catches on.

[@darkmatter3237]

I love trade in programs I wish more companies would do that.

[@drconflict629]

A trade in for 400 dollars lmfao 😂😂😂😂 How delusional are you man?

[@brainbox9219]

want them to do this with the OG tracker...that would be so sick

[@toslinked]

I am too waiting for that. I killed my tracker with soldering in a potentiometer for the jogwheel. would be happy to trade it in for a fair priced update machine.

[@ruffiankick]

Yeaa that would be dope!

[@ascendwithgorb]

@@toslinked oh, they will

[@brainbox9219]

@@ascendwithgorb will they…? Thing has been out for a while and they made mini version before and updated OG version T_T would kill for an update that was worth a crap, not interested and another other Polyend product, I just want a legit update to hardware and firmware for OG tracker, that last update had improvements but it’s bugged even after 7.1 firmware ughhhh

[@ChunterInfo]

This *was* normal for the super expensive Synclaviers and Fairlights which is why they tend to seem to be one of a kind depending on how much servicing they got despite them being as digital as an instrument can be

[@williambierwerth4524]

Ben you are awesome if it hurts them to see you enjoying yourself that speaks more about them than you life is too hard to give up so don't. Please don't give up reviews these rock.

[@onetwothreefourfivesix]

I was on the fence when the Play came out but this video has inspired me to give the Play+ a look. Thanks for making a video that showcases the updated device very well.

[@TheBigLou13]

how do you manage to have no audible sound crackling when touching or turning a knob? I own two Polyend Plays and I always hear near-full-volume crackling when I turn any knob while playing. It happens using a batterybank as well as using a normal power outlet :/

[@dictabeat]

Brilliant review Ben. Personally, I'm a big fan of Polyend. It's such a shame they stopped doing modular gear. They were ahead of their time and now with this Polyend+ again they're nailing it. I love the brand for the kindness, innovation and even though they're not the cheapest, they're also not the most expensive and I feel it's worth it. Even if not everything they make is for everyone.

[@bobclark5360]

Benn, I'll always be a fan. You do a great job. I'd like to share my perspective being a new owner of the Play..my unit is 5 months old and I now learn it has depreciated almost 400 bucks and it has issues that Polyend has yet to respond regarding them. Files corrupting, project missing or swapping files. Crazy stuff! Anyhow, now I learn my 5 month old device is a Legacy device and if I want I can pay 400 more to upgrade. So the unit I have lost 400 in value and to regain its value and added functionality pay out another 400.. I feel insulted and truly disappointed that the company you gave great endorsements, has failed me. You bear no responsibility regarding this! I trust you completely. But Polyend did not think the upgrade or how its recent customers would feel! If my unit was 4 years old or 2 years old, OK, I understand the program and the costs. But They are not responding to email, or support tickets I sent. That is a huge NO NO in my book. I mean at least acknowledge you got my support requests. The Back stage forum is not a place for answers, IMHO. I'm so frustrated to have my play looking at me in my studio, it can't hold samples properly or corrupts them and now it is a door stopper? Keep doing your thing, Benn, as you truly are great at it! I wish Polyend had the same approach and desire. And, BTW, this is my second Play purchase, despite returning the first defective unit. I feel like a fool!

[@kennethpace9887]

Thumbs up for speaking your mind. Upgrades happen with all tech gear but the silence from support is inexcusable. Seems to be the norm these days.

[@sebastienbarre]

I feel you. This is not a perspective Benn shares I think, which is fine. I lurked in the forums that same day and what he said (on that frustrating day I'm sure) with respect to people complaining about this sudden depreciation was pretty much "Who the f* hedges their gear anyway?". People do, it's not stupid to consider the value of your purchases if you can only make so many...

[@bobclark5360]

He may lack some perspective if much of what he gets is heavily discounted or free. But I still like to make sound purchases and feel good about owning it..I feel terrible regarding the recent events and now owning an insult that sits staring at me. Benn serves a community of peeps who respect his opinions and I'll continue to do so. Those that gutted him are simply wrong or misplaced their anger. And I still have not heard from Polyend. @@sebastienbarre

[@yyams]

Yes! Stereo is a huge upgrade and the reason I bought a cheaper simpler stereo groovebox last year instead of spunking a bit more on the Play. The Play+ is now the piece of gear I will aim for once I can afford to buy stuff like that instead of house upgrades.

[@jmartaudio]

Metric halo! -- They have offered upgrade parts for all of the new versions of their audio interfaces. They are amazing!

[@Winterdagen]

Thanks for all the amazing gear videos Ben! Your refreshingly thoughtful takes on beautiful instruments have always resonated with me and will be missed.

[@dankeplace]

I got my Play yesterday, an OG unit that I wont upgrade, only wanted it for the sequencer, and for all the sequencers I've been through, this is fart the most powerful, cheapest and easiest to use when it comes to my MIDI requirements. Not interested in synth engine or samples, for people who want a robust MIDI sequencer, it's actually really nice and if you can get it cheap and want a robust MIDI tool, go for it.

[@darondaron99]

Fart?

[@symbiat0]

I’m blown away by that trade-in for existing customers and kudos to you for pointing out.

[@apricebcd]

Ive never used one of these before but you have me excited about this concept. Also Roland could learn from this. 'This is how to make a screen/interface"

[@diereken]

Bought my OG Play 4 months ago. At least $500 (In Europe and shipping) for the upgrade. Just ship us upgrade kits for those that want it Polyend.

[@fulhjort]

Do you have what is needed to desolder SMD components? What if you fail with the upgrade? Are you willing to take the loss?

[@diereken]

@@fulhjort I'd give it a go

[@fulhjort]

@@diereken At the expense of possibly completely bricking the device and not being able to get a replacement under warranty?

[@diereken]

​@@fulhjortyes

[@jthek2000]

The Play as a midi controller for synths paired with sample packs is the real appeal for the Play. If you don’t have synths to pair with, the Play+ is a good buy, but definitely not worth the upgrade for gen 1 users who like their own synths better than internal synth engines.

[@warius1]

People are mad that a new product hits the market too quick?

[@shey87]

I wanted to switch from circuit tracks to polyend play for a while. The only downside would be to lose two synth engines. Now that's not an issue anymore. Thanks for the update!

[@TheFlippertube]

I think it's great that they're avoiding unnecessary waste. To the extent that the upgrade work can be done with a minimum of shipping all the better, since the environmental cost of said shipping is not negligible.

[@CleverMonkey-jd3du]

I work for a company that makes large electronic mechanical widgets, and the semiconductor shortage and subsequent years of supply chain bullshittery was brutal for us. And we own fabrication plants. Didn't Teenage Engineering decide to make their next product based on what they could buy now in bulk?

[@TimBeauBennett]

I only just bought a play (with benns code lmao) and man I am so happy about this. I don't think I'll upgrade for a while, but I'm excited that I can down the line

[@valdir7426]

Try emailing them apparently they offer the upgrade for free to very recent buyers

[@NeilStarbuck]

Thats sucks big time,

[@marco_movie]

Since you mention Apple: they’ve been doing trade-ins for long. Furthermore, it really can’t happen that you buy an iPhone in August without knowing a newer one is coming in September

[@Digiphex]

I made the Lone Birds patch from Lone "Birds Don't Fly This High" and I was thrilled when you said you liked it.

[@ambidex]

Seeing Benn's comments about the Polyend stuff, and reading some of these comments about the capability of both Synthstrom and Polyend sequencer products was getting me very excited. Then i saw the info about lacking sysex capability and i got skeptical. Then seeing no NRPN either sealed the deal. I can almost understand the lack of sysex support, (although i think it's ridiculous), but not having NRPN support is beyond ludicrous. Is it too much to ask for to have a decent sequencer that can manage NRPNs and/or some basic Sysex support?

[@notreally-sf3df]

what planet do you live on where sysex matter?

[@hvhvgitaar]

In principle, this an excellent move by Polyend. It is a more sustainable approach than that of many landfilling vendors. It reminds me of the OLED screen upgrade approach from Synthstrom audible for their Deluge. The Polyend upgrade pricing is perhaps a bit steep, but I suppose time will tell. Talking Deluge, because I have one, I haven’t (yet?) cracked for a Polyend Play but the addition of the synths and the USB audio are tempting me…

[@Who_is_Ashel]

Seems like a great machine ! I understand people being angry though. I guess comparing polyend to apple is not quite correct as on one hand polyend is a smallish company and apple, well you know… but I would say when you’re buying an iphone, imac, ipad, etc… you know there’s a new one coming next year which was not the case for the polyend play, someone who paid full price 2 months ago must really think it’s unfair. I know there’s the upgrade but this makes the polyend play + 1200$ for them…

[@fpham8004]

Forgot about Deluge? That's probably the closest comparison IMHO.

[@phild5322]

My counter to your points Ben, is that imagine is there was a Digitakt +, and then a Digitakt ++ a year later, and then a Digitakt +++ a year later again. It is possible to future proof hardware, as Elektron have shown. And most importantly, did Polyend know they would be doing this when they released the Play. I highly suspect they did, and I think the majority of people wouldn’t of bought the original knowing they would have to pay 400 not long after

[@PORRFNK]

Elektron did the same with the Machinedrum UW+ and non +. The big difference here is that Elektron announced it in advance and made a special offer to those who recently bought a non-UW+. The MD MK1 was so old that it was justified making a MK2, and here there were no software differences really, same functionality. I think Elektron was the same size company wise as Polyend is now at that time. What I think has happened is chip shortage or price increase, and then a bit of speculative bad stock handling, making consumers pay for the leftover stock of old boards and processors as they transition to new ones.

[@Strepite]

The main issue with Polyend for me is they seem to abandon and discontinue their products very quickly. That’s okay if you build it from scratch properly, feature wise but we all know everyone release half-arsed products nowadays and then do firmware updates. But if you make a product abandonedware so quickly, no way you are able to fix software issues, hear out your users and upgrade… They acrewed up big time and will face huge repercusions tbh, shame because I liked the way they are thinking about music creation…

[@MyReasonToPlay]

Wow! Finally, internal synths! Next they should go OpenSource to compete Deluge.

[@francisguyman3819]

damn, polyend play looked sweet but it was missing that special something. this has me sold on the plus

[@ZigbertD]

This actually just makes me more interested in the original Play at the new reduced price. I've got plenty of hardware synths to pair with its MIDI sequencer so I don't care about the synth tracks in the Play +. The audio out over USB is a good feature though.

[@djcolinturnbull]

I have to say this pisses me off! The Polyend play was expensive and underdeveloped on release. So everyone waits for 1-2 years for the features that were missing.. and there was a lot … specifically on the midi side…. Like chords in one lane… and then they drop the value of the original and want more money…. This is the problem with both boutique hardware and software developers…. They release unfinished products and then slowly release updates to make up for it. A $900 groove box should be finished… and at a minimum only require a few firmware updates…. This is infuriating

[@djcolinturnbull]

This is like the hardware version of the Waves Update Plan.

[@silverXnoise]

A robust software update for the original models to bring it up to a higher standard would be a good idea, especially if such future features had been implied early on (I am unaware if this has been planned or announced). If they’re instead abandoning the original altogether then that would be a pretty shitty move, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest this is the case. It sounds like at least some of the new features require new hardware, so a firmware update wouldn’t be enough in and of itself. Maybe I’m giving Polyend too much benefit of the doubt. I am optimistic, and I want to support music hardware manufacturers that have not sold out to private equity firms and shipped all of their production overseas. Your head would explode if you knew how electronics test equipment is made/sold these days. It’s effectively the standard approach now to design an exceptionally powerful and capable oscilloscope, then turn off 75% of its features in software to artificially limit the capability of lower priced models, even though the hardware is identical to that of the models that cost 2-5x as much. As hardware gets cheaper and processing performance plateaus, this will become increasingly more common, since the underlying costs involved with manufacturing hardware variants outpaces the costs of simply running a single hardware unit with tiered features that can be turned on/off with a software switch. The only good news in all of this is that manufacturers frequently underestimate the ability of consumers to “hack” their devices and enable paid features themselves post-purchase, which in my prior oscilloscope example is precisely what happened with Rigol’s MSO5000 series-you can currently pay $900 and get a $5k oscilloscope, albeit without a valid warranty. Aside from all that, audio hardware/software development has never been so accessible, and I think it’s an especially exciting time to be a musician and/or an engineer.

[@harveytherobot]

Missing compared to what? There's no divine list of features that all devices should have at a given time. It was what it was. They made improvements. And why did you buy it if things were "missing"? You didn't have to buy it, and you don't have to upgrade. Sounds like Behringer is more your speed.

[@djcolinturnbull]

@@harveytherobot 🙃 I’m not buying it. The marketing was good and those features were not addressed at all. The equipment was ok. But I quickly felt too many features were missing and for a product at that price point.. it’s was very underdeveloped. Maybe it suits your needs. And that’s fine. Ill keep the original for a few basic things. I’ll stick to to manufacturers that release finished products. You either get it or you don’t

[@djcolinturnbull]

@@harveytherobot maybe you should watch the loopop review where he goes over pros and cons and how the play + is still underdeveloped. And how many features that were suppose to be added to the play .. never were… and still haven’t arrived on the play + yet. Even though they were promised… my guess is financial problems.

[@zeroeure]

Thanks for making this review. I dig your review style. It helps me learn about interesting electronic gear from a grounded and information based level without the gross performative and capitalist jargon that crowds a lot of other reviewers videos. I’m here for all your content including reviews.

[@MapleSonics]

Hi Benn, thanks for this video. I was inspired by it and bought one. Most unfortunately, I returned it within 3 days. The reasons being the loading times, the lack of separate outputs, the lack of cv gates, and i just was a bit disappointed by the actual size. It is really small. Also the fact that i can not cancel the loading of samples was quite annoying. Especially when it ends up not being able to load everything cause exceeding memory limits. Also it is not really a 16 track sequencer. It has 8 audio tracks and eight midi tracks. And maybe it is because i have bad coordination or big hands, but when changing values, i often “hit” another encoder and accidentally changed the wrong values. Damn annoying! You might like this one, i ordered an MPC Live 2😂. I think it is ok to conclude that the Polyend ecospace is more of a niche playground. It lacks pro features that are essential for a good production.

[@sodiumlights]

You bought it without knowing what outputs it had and what size it was? Save yourself some hassle and read the specs next time maybe.

[@MapleSonics]

@@sodiumlights yes i did that. Yes i should’ve prepared more, i was just real excited when i saw the thing and i wanted it. Doesn’t change the fact that it is more a toy. There is too much work involved to make it sound serious. It needs a daw and that sucks. I noticed you skipped the other 90% of my comment.

[@sodiumlights]

​@@MapleSonics The other points you made were all flagged up in videos that came out around the time of release actually, although the loading times & 'cancel loading' were skimmed over with sneaky edits. I was dead set on buying the OG but held back due to the price. Then after it was out in real users hands it appeared to be realllly buggy and under-powered. Benn's video implies that the beefed up specs solves those issues, and once again (looking through forums) it appears that this wasn't the case at all; it's just as bad once you do anything more than rudimentory stuff with it. A recent complaint flagged up is that the screen is loose in the casing by 'design'. Having bought the Tracker Mini (and been appalled with the build quality so sent it back) I feel it's just Polyend's BS. Sorry for the slight but I'm getting increasing annoyed by some folk who instant buy stuff just because it's new & flashy, and without checking out the specs first (or just going on a promo video), only to send it back in the 'trial period'. I feel for those retailers who have to take a hit from this. That's why some less respectable companies then pump out the used units as new, and the next customer is the one that loses. The recent Stylophone Theremin is good example actually. Cool looking instrument, forums full of folk proclaiming INSTANT BUY/PRE-ORDERED! etc. Yet nowhere on their official promo page does it mention how it's powered, mains/battery either/or? I asked this on their YT video as no-one else seemed to have (it's batteries ONLY btw).

[@MapleSonics]

@@sodiumlights I don't believe i'm that person, buying instant stuff just because it's new & flashy. Then i would have kept it. I have been looking for ages for a tight ass sample/sequencer that was NOT the MPC (don't ask why). For the lack of gates i was planning to work around it with my Poly Hector. But it all just turned out to be a big disappointment. And the MPC Live2 has not been disappointing at any time. This is probable the best MPC ever next to the MPC X. Only time i was also very disapointed after buying, was the Behringer System100 range of eurorack modules, bleh.

[@sodiumlights]

@@MapleSonics I've never really gelled with my og Live, but it's certainly one powerhouse, the Live 2 even more so, especially bang for the buck when compared to the Play+. Since buying the Toraiz Sp16 the Live became the most expensive dust catcher I own. And boy, does it catch a lot of dust! I don't think this applies as your model has a different finish...but; I loaned it to a relative to play with. Instead of coming back in the superb condition it left in, it arrived looking like Godzilla had been using it as chewing gum! You could indent the rubber coating with a soft fingernail. I think it got fcked due to their small flat+very high humidity due to drying wet clothes on radiators without ventilation. A lesson learned. Zero resell value:( Gonna scrap the coating off. If any Tracker Mini owners are reading this I would advise keeping it in a non-humid environment (even if it is silicon).

[@MillisecondFalcon]

I love your videos, Benn. And I hate to see you, or anyone for that matter, getting unjustifiably negative comments or accusations like has happened here. Some people just jump on the negativity train because it looks like everybody else is boarding and they don't want to be left out. Don't let those people get to you, they don't appreciate or even recognise the amount of time and passion you devote to videos like this. Unlike many other content creators in the music hardware space, you actually get to know the products you test\use really thoroughly and that's something you should be incredibly proud of. Please keep being your wonderful, talented, authentic self. And keep making great videos like this one!

[@alexiwiedemann]

❤

[@artysanmobile]

You drive that thing like a Formula 1 car. Fascinating to watch. Great demo, Benn.

[@NeonLabsss]

16:21 casually makes the most beautiful thing ever

[@simonlees2848]

Side note, I use an Audient Evo 16 and have previously used a Expert Sleepers ES-8 directly with my MPC without issues, now i connect the latter to the former via adat

[@RobertMaxwellMediaCorp]

The randomized song that the Play spit out at 12:49 sounds exactly like the beginning of the "Port Town" level on the original F-Zero soundtrack for SNES

[@leftistfrog404]

kinda late to the party but w/e imo trade in is a very cool thing for them to do (although something that should be regarded as a standard procedure in such cases), however I am kinda iffy about the fact that they knew they were shipping a product that is not a fully realised version of what they want to release yet still asked a full price for it (I say full cause they charge 799 for the plus aka intended version). Saying as a someone who really like the idea (and now also the realization) behind this device and maybe will purchase it at some point.

[@andrewhorton5101]

This video completely changed my perspective on the situation. Everything that you capture here is completely lacking in Polyend’s own communication about this new product.

[@Ancaja123]

In response to audio class compliance, I have had my Keith McMillan K-Mix work across the board…my MPC Live, 2021 iPad Air, and 3 different MacBooks across different OSs. Maybe I’ve gotten lucky with a great product!

[@echo_opera]

Yeah, I didn't get this part of the video. I've been rocking a handful of different interfaces with my MPC, iPad and macOS for years now. Not sure if he's trying to connect a Firewire interface to his set up or what...but USB works just fine...

[@folkscience-ftw]

The upgradable hardware business model is such a better move than the TE's field's marketing blunder/embarrassment. Good job polyend!

[@thelefthandofcreation1617]

It's like how E-Mu and other similar companies used to operate

[@notreally-sf3df]

what do you even mean by that? what kinda fucking shill are you?

[@drconflict629]

Almost nobody seems to agree with that on Polyend's own video though. It's 400 + shipping to "upgrade". And the first unit was only a year old. What sort of idiotic vision is this company pushing?

[@TheMotr4u]

Great Review.. companies upgrade their products and sometimes the new version is just more appealing or adds features we what .. like buying a car last year and then finding that the car company just drooped the hottest new thing on the street and guess what ? its a smoking hot upgrade to the model you bought last year.. if you've been buying software or hardware for awhile then this has defiantly happened to you.

[@ShimiHalperin]

You are really talented. My only complaint about the video is if I bought one I would never be able to get it to sound like that in a bazillion years.

[@kookiespace]

The upgrading of existing hardware (especially if the motherboard has to be changed) is a really cool idea. I feel like 499$ for the upgrade is still _a lot_, but the concept itself is good. Especially from an e-waste perspective

[@TwoBassed]

But the circuit board is the most expensive part of the product so understandable!

[@nolyspe]

it's 399 for the upgrade

[@j__r0d]

seeing the OP-1 Field come out mere months after I got the original, I really wished there was something like this.

[@omniomniomni]

Done with Polyend. Got the Polyend Play last year and it's already been "replaced" by a version we all hoped the firmware updates would give us. The "generous" upgrade means for me to get the newer, better unit, I would spend around $1100. With this kick to the gut and the mini tracker debacle, I'll be sure to only buy used Polyend gear at steep discounts. Can't support this behavior or company.

[@cirisirpula152]

Not to mention that the price of a one year unit just collapsed from 799 to 499 (in europe). Pretty bizarre that a one year old device drops 40% in price. If you want to sell it, you probably can get like 300 for it on used market..

[@AAllinsonNN]

The price drop for the new addition is nothing different than when a 2.0 comes out. The 1.0 significantly drops in value.

[@FurryNightmare666]

Yup. Literally vaporware devices. All of them.

[@leftovernoise]

​@@FurryNightmare666in what way? If you liked the original enough to purchase it and use it, then you still have that piece of gear. Nobody is entitled to get a certain price on resale of a piece of music equipment. I don't own nor am I interested in any polyend gear, but people freaking out that a company price dropped a unit when the next revision came out is ridiculous. From the sounds of it, the new model literally has a different processor, the previous model couldn't get many of these upgrades with firmware, because the processor couldn't handle it. Why would you purchase a piece of gear in hopes that it may one day get upgraded firmware, if you aren't happy with its current abilities?

[@fallenshallrise]

I bought an M1 Mac Mini. Then they went on sale. Then then came out with M2 Mac Mini and it's better... the M3 will be out soon. Should I be freaking out right now?

[@brittmurray9818]

This approach seems like a good way to get more of the upgraded product into the hands of musicians, faster - especially for a small, bandwidth (and potentially supply chain) limited company. Nice job Polyend!

[@adalundhe]

I really appreciate your insight here Ben. I feel like the pandemic made a lot of stuff in the music tech space weird and significantly messed with timelines (resulting in the year and a half turn around we see here). It looks like a fun upgrade! I don’t know if it’s quite for me given the embarrassing number of options I have that accomplish the same (with a different workflow, but still). I appreciate PolyEnd having an upgrade path - as a software engineer, I know that a significant upgrade like this costs. For those complaining about upgrades, a year after I bought my $12k ExMachina Quasars, there was a MK2 and the upgrade costs $1600 with self-install. Chips and DSP stuff are much more expensive than you realize or remember, particularly for manufacturers that can’t get batch discounts at the level of someone like AMD or Intel. If the upgrade path isn’t for you, that’s fine! Don’t take it out on Ben or others just genuinely sharing their joy.

[@strangersun7721]

They released an upgraded version of a product just over a year after the previous version and asked half the asking price to upgrade the original. If that's "consumer friendly", I'd be scared to hear your Idea of what unfriendly is. Oh and Polyend's post product support is bad. Bugs, broken firmwares, and i received a rude response to a question I sent about how to recover from a random bug that deleted everything i made in their Tracker.

[@thesurgingmass]

Sure see a lot of whining in these comments…. Did the piece of gear you bought change with this release? Or is it that you’re upset at yourself for purchasing it and not waiting for the newest and shiniest item? Enjoy what you have. Upgrade if you feel inclined. Don’t upgrade if you don’t want to. But try to not be petulant children. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@josephjfk4755]

Yes. I expected synths to be added to the original like with the Tracker and instead they want me to buy the item again. If they had to underpower the original, they should have said so.

[@lazarusmoment4682]

​@@josephjfk4755yep.

[@hastyscorpion]

​@@josephjfk4755what are you talking about? None of what you said is accurate.

[@santacious7045]

I agree with you to an extent although I wouldn’t describe most of the complaints here as “whining”. As a purchaser of the original I am unhappy too. I won’t be upgrading or spending my money on anything they make in the future. Polyend doesn’t owe me anything as no one owes them anything either so that’s fine. The bigger problem created here is for Polyend themselves ultimately imo. In the future if a new product is released even those calling us early unhappy Play buyers “whiners” will likely be hesitant to purchase when a plus model could be just around the corner new and improved for the same price. It remains to be seen but I think Polyend may have shot themselves in the foot here.

[@lazarusmoment4682]

@@santacious7045 agree fully.

[@jacobsmith1877]

A few years ago I bought a Novation Launchpad Pro Mk2. Then the Mk3 came out within a few months and had a bit more capability. I considered buying a Mk3 but held out long enough until some smart dude developed a custom firmware that basically turns my Mk2 into a Mk3... for free. That said, I would have liked an upgrade option to go from Mk2 to Mk3 instead of having to buy a whole new piece of hardware when I already have one that looks basically the same and does 80% of the same stuff.

[@lazarusmoment4682]

My only gripe with this is that since they cost the same, we who already got the play end up having actually payed 1200 in the end, as opposed to 799 for the new version. Idk. Kind of feels like a little middle finger to us. Although i still like Polyend and all their innovativeness, also the trade in program is a lot better than not having it. But unfortunately it gives me big apple vibes...

[@MichaelRyanCaputo]

Could you go into a bit more detail about the section at the end with what looks like a guitar looper (I know a lot of pedals but this one doesn't look like anything im familiar with). Im a guitar player interested in the creativity that the play+ offers and am trying to figure out the best way to use both to compose. I suspect you're syncing the two with midi and have a mixer to blend the audio sources?

[@humankapital2000]

I'm a bit irritated that my Play lost so much value over night. I understand why Polyend does it that way and do see the advantages, but 400 Euros is quite much money after all.

[@AgonalRhythm]

This is a bizarre to me. It may have lost resale value, but are you using it as an investment item or a music production tool?

[@humankapital2000]

@@AgonalRhythm Why should that be bizarre? I had it listed for sale but suddenly the price for a new one dropped below the price I was asking. I think it is understandable that I am a bit upset.

[@AgonalRhythm]

@@humankapital2000 ah, the additional context of you trying to sell yours clarifies. I wouldn't dream of selling mine.

[@mju135]

@@AgonalRhythm Many people buy and resell equipment all the time.

[@humankapital2000]

@@AgonalRhythm Thanks for your understanding. I do love the Tracker but never got into the Play. Did not click for me.

[@dustyaudio]

This entire “situation” has me very hyped for a Tracker Mini. Maybe I’ll see some used ones pop up after all this settles 😂

[@austinmatkin5614]

You make great content. Don't pay attention to people that don't matter. ;)

[@AcidTechnoMan5000]

I had the play for a few days. I found it to be the most cumbersome workflow imaginable. RETURNED. I got a hapax (as I was using the play primarily for midi sequencing) and am glad with the decision. I had 4 synths, and my dual timbre Iridium setup in 1 hour, no manual. The major perplexing thing about the play as well was the inability to assign a sample to a pad and manually trigger it. Mind boggling that in 2023 this was not possible. After that being my 3rd polyend product, they are blacklisted, along with Arturia.

[@31pas0]

Blacklisted? Are you a corporation or smth?

[@reddusk2600]

Arturia lmao

[@nosville22]

>Poland mentioned since I live hereI am legally obligated to be happy, especially since it's the very city Polyend is located in

[@BrainBeatProductions]

Wow this upgrade makes look like it could be a very well rounded groove box. It might have to be the next item on my list now. Your review was great too and am sorry after watching today's video you will stop making more.

[@phed]

You legit had me laughing, trying to hold in my coffee, with your "WTF happened to your eybrow" line. Caught me right off guard.

[@raysubject]

well in reality people doesn’t throw old gear to bin if they want new model - they sell the old one to somebody, add some more funds and new buy .. so old gear serves any other people because this story repeats itself.. So music gear industry is actually one of most “green” from all industries … things are heavily re-used and their lifespam is literally decades. Now what Polyend did is, that existing old Play users will sell their Play for significantly less than before. And upgrade, when you add shipping costs is also pretty costly (nor arguing that price may be adequate for swapping entire board - that is no doubt) So i thing this is actually not ideal move for existing Play users, and it shows that many of them (especially those whi bought Play recently) are pretty disapspointed. Maybe more user-frirendly move would be to set Play plus price slightly higher and setdoscond of oldplay sliglty lower to make more interesting for existing users to ugrade but not push price of their OG devices on secondary market too low. But yeah, who i am, it's Polyend decision. Just wanted to point different point of view. Like, i understand your point of view, no bad mood here. disclaimer: I do not own play, but i am considering to buy play plus cause lack of synth engines was only reason why i didn’t buy original one - i like the concept a lot, it's just i am primary synth guy. Also hope they add those synth engines to Tracker Mini, that would be game changer for me. Oh also it’s a pity you decided to quit from reviewimg gear, love all your stuff, you are one one of best. Yeah, there is still lot of others, but mat - your review content will be missed hard.

[@TheGamingCarousel]

Im sorry but i also cant sell a PS4 and buy a PS5 without spending new money .... economy just doesnt work that way...... Seems to me that you and a lot of others think that music gear is a form of safe and secure investment ..... which it isnt... Its also not a gud investment to buy the newest iphone and think you can sell it for the buying price 3 years later thats just not gonna happen.

[@raysubject]

@@TheGamingCarousel where i wrote sometimg anout selling old gear and buying new gear without adding more money ? Didn’t say nothing like that. Read again my post.

[@el_dani]

How do you know that the Polyend play compared to the other devices had that much more research? Quite engrossing

[@PaulAup62]

M8 keeps being better value in terms of functionality and software, but the hardware and their refurb policy are really commendable. They deserve good press for that alone!

[@BennJordan]

The M8 UI has a sharp learning curve for anyone not coming from classic LSDJ workflows. Extremely different devices.

[@PaulAup62]

@@BennJordan how would you compare the accessibility of the polyend tracker ui compared to the m8? Thanks for your reply!

[@BennJordan]

More user friendly by design. The M8 seems made for chiptune enthusiasts, the Tracker/Mini attempts to introduce the tracker workflow to a wider audience. I don't think Tim Lamb (the M8 creator) would disagree with this take. 😁

[@8thlvlMage]

That jam around 16:00 sounds straight out of Cobalt Core's soundtrack! Which is a compliment of course. I recommend giving the game and the soundtrack a look/listen.

[@skelly790]

Everything I've plugged into my iPad pro 3rd gen has worked. Digitakt, Focusrite 18i20, Caldigit. All show up, with all the channels, though not at the same time, because why would you? Even a mio10, which can be a bit picky at times. Maybe it's a USB C thing?

[@Singularity-tp5iy]

6:09 sorry to say Ben, but my Behringer XR18 air does a fine job talking to my MPC one. I do apologise for mentioning the firm who we don’t speak about! 😅 groetjes Johan

[@enchanterthetim]

Love you benn you’re the best.

[@BenIsOnlyAsking]

From another Ben, love you Benn! ❤

[@benjaminbosco9932]

I always enjoy Watching your videos, Thanks for being so informative. Please don't stop making gear videos

[@binarysun_]

Back then I sold the Play again because it could just sample and had no sound engines. While I thought it might be fine I felt the limitations that did not help me at all. Guess I have to give the Play+ another hard stare now …

[@kablehead]

I really like my Play but this doesn't feel right to me. The good thing is that now the OG costs 499 and i can get the upgrade for 399 or put in 100 more and have two OG Play's.

[@the_crow_garden]

that's one way of getting stereo

[@djcolinturnbull]

I heard the Polyend Play ++ is set to release in March 2024 for an update price of $400. Just send the play + back and we’ll add another + to the cover.. 😂😂😂

[@brandonaikin5445]

Hey, Benn. Great informative post. I have tracker and love it. Might be a while before I can justify getting a play+ as well, but who knows. No idea why some people think this review is controversial. Weird. Anyway... Keep it up. You're doing great!

[@leftovernoise]

It really bums me out that almost every hardware sequencer is limited to 64 steps with no longer song mode. Lots of Gear used to have song mode back in the day and it sucks that went away

[@ElectronisoundsAudio]

The Play does have "song mode" though - You just press shift and play when in the pattern screen and it plays all the patterns in your "song" back to back. It's super easy and useful. ✌

[@leftovernoise]

@@ElectronisoundsAudio Nice, I was not aware of that. All the info online states it's only a 64 step sequencer. What's the maximum length of unique sequence you can make with the song mode?

[@ElectronisoundsAudio]

Well, you can have 128 patterns in a project and they can all play back to back, plus a pattern can be longer than 4 bars if you have even one 64-step track playing at 1/2 speed (or slower) for example. 👍 I really do love the Play, just not the way they've gone about releasing this new version so soon after V1. @@leftovernoise

[@kinnectar820]

@@leftovernoise Having just played with the Play a bit, and owning a Synthstrom Deluge, I can say that the song mode is definitely strong, and "variations" as a way to manage performance within a song is pretty cool. Copy and paste is really easy which is great. The real limitation here is that it only has 8 "lanes" and samples in a single lane hard cut the play of the one before. Essentially 8 sample polyphony. Coming from the Deluge where you can have as many lanes (instruments/sample patterns) as you can cram into the memory, that feels like the Achilles heel of an otherwise very fun workflow with the Play.

[@dziwic]

People got mad over this not because they got somehow cheated (which is ridiculous in itself) but because resale value of the original just went to shit. If you buy something for 700, you’d expect to sell it for at least 400. But when price of the new one goes down to 400, max what one can ask is around 200. So you lose about 500 in a year. And that stings.

[@reddusk2600]

If you're buying music gear to resell it you're an idiot

[@atetraxx]

Lmfao. If you ever see a polyend play for 200 please let me know ASAP. Because that is just fantastical nonsense. Ain't a chance you can find one for $200 even in a year from now. I see you've never sold gear. Or at least, not well.

[@dziwic]

@@atetraxx you really think you can get more than a half price of new for used one? You remember what happened to circuit prices when circuit tracks were released?

[@buckycore]

If you watch this at double speed, the 707 sounds like when i would make thrash demo songs on my four track back in the 80s

[@mojodrum3215]

So l paid 800 for my play and if l upgrade it for 400 l will get the play+ for 1200 plus shipping cost when the play+ is 799. So that means l will pay 400 plus shipping more than what the play+ sells for. What the hell is Polyend thinking? Don’t they realize they will have a lot of angry customers.

[@rrrobart9]

Damn it… yeah I want one. Honestly I can’t be too pissed about it cause I have t used mine enough cause I’m so busy. I just wonder if they ever got around to adding midi efx. If they did, I’m keeping the old one. If they have not, I’m now left wondering why and thinking- no wonder people are pissed.

[@JamesRamboPearce]

Ahhhh this is what I was hoping for the original Play, and I sold my tracker and 1010music fireball to help pay for the Push 3 which is now my go to travel music making setup - I think if this had come out before that I would have definitely got it instead as I’ve heard and seen how great the Play is 😅

[@shawnmurphy4757]

Ben. Where did you get your PhD in music? Seriously though, thank you for the information. I just pre-ordered the Plus. I've had my eye on the Play since it came out. Between this upgrade and black Friday discounts, now was finally the time!

[@wickeddubz]

Benn, regarding audio interfaces and Apple: looks like they randomly kick interfaces out of supported list. Nobody knows why it happens. The only two interfaces i know and personally tested them: Elektron Digitakt and (oh, irony) Behringer UCA 222. They just work on any OS (iPadOS, Android, Windows, Linux, Mac) out of the box. My tablet is 5th generation of iPad mini.

[@BennJordan]

Lots of heat in these comments. 😅 Let's set some things straight. 1. I wasn't paid or compensated for this video other than a prototype unit. If you don't believe me, I actually praise your skepticism. Obviously I can't do anything to convince you until I file my tax stuff (and that probably won't convince you anyway). 2. This video wasn't approved or commissioned by Polyend or anything. I don't do that shit. As with any video about any piece of gear, the manufacturer doesn't see it until it's public. 3. I clearly thought this was a clever way to upgrade a product compared to how the majority of things are done (with our phones, cars, laptops, etc). You are ALWAYS welcome to disagree with me, and under no circumstances am I asking or expecting you to buy anything. But if your comment is insulting to me or to Polyend or ANYONE, it's getting deleted. I want this channel to be a place to be inspired. Take that negativity elsewhere. 4. Just to make this clear: stereo samples/onboard synths/etc couldn't work without a hardware upgrade.

[@Modrunnermusic]

I think the problem is the price of the plus. People are upset they paid the same price for the original as the plus. The plus has better hardware and cost the same as the original. And now the original owners have to pay $400 more to have new hardware. If the plus was $1000, I think sending your hardware in for an actual upgrade would would be more palatable for people. So original owners are getting shafted by this. They will be out $1200 but someone coming in new gets the same exact thing for $800.

[@sentimentaltrash]

Yea- I’m in the boat where I bought one and I enjoy it, a worthy upgrade but I’m in agreement where the upgrade price feels quite steep, especially as I waited a year for upgrades with the midi. Especially as it’s so soon after the og one. Like if it was 1/4 it would feel like an upgrade considering they’re getting my old unit, but for 1/2 it’s like… it kinda hurts and I just feel pretty penalised tbh. Logistically I get it has to be a min price for labour costs but it’s definitely rubbed me the wrong way ngl

[@lebronsinclair8012]

All I got to say is the OG tracker upgrade is what I really want. Nice upgrade but I want OG tracker update. Just have to put it into the ethos. Good day. Good video.

[@santacious7045]

I’ll address point #3 here and do it without negativity as you rightfully ask. You thought it was a clever way to upgrade and us relatively early adopters of the first Play disagree and feel a bit burned. Wether we’re justified feeling that way may be up for debate. Another thing we could debate is wether this was a good strategy for Polyend. In the future if a new product is launched are buyers likely to take the plunge, or wait for a plus version that could be coming out in a matter of months possibly? I won’t be purchasing anything from them again regardless but how do moves like this affect potential future buyers. 🤔

[@herecomestreble24]

I love Polyend and the Play but did they have to screw their customers over? I mean we did take a chance on them after all, they owe us some degree of thanks for our loyalty. I have a hard time believing that it costs $400 to swap out some chips and ship the unit there and back. Just seems predatory on their part and I think people feel a little betrayed.

[@Appleloucious]

One Love! Always forward, never ever backward!! ☀☀☀ 💚💛❤ 🙏🏿🙏🙏🏼

[@Antonio_Ortiz]

I just got a Novation Circuit but might consider getting a newer Groovebox or Drum Computer in the future. Would the Polyend Play (or Plus) be a better upgrade than just getting a Circuit Tracks, MPC studio, etc?

[@nelsonnichols922]

you were certainly able to create a lot of cool sounding music with a minimal amount of effort. that was very impressive to me, though I was completely lost during most of the process. that’s on me, not you, I could see that once you learned the ins and outs of the device, you could probably create music quite effortlessly with it

[@i.q_music]

I like it, would love to try it, What a marvellous sequencer! And intuitive design

[@MoodOfMidas]

Speak Low! Really cool to hear one of my favorite Jazz standarts in the background.

[@mirs]

the play lives up to its name, super fun piece of kit

[@sub-jec-tiv]

I wouldn’t put "customer-friendly" and Polyend in the same sentence, but hey, i’m sure they treat KZbinrs very well.

[@01014]

The "later" at the end felt like being interrupted mid-sneeze. Thank you for saying "bye".

[@dansimco]

genuinely curious how the premiere function benefits creators. i always forget to come back and watch the videos

[@frien_d]

...I don't

[@keithlane4705]

Same, though it can be handy if its like 20 min or 30 min, and you want to join in the chat. Can go make a coffee and settle. Over an hour though .. I don't plan my life around youtube

[@BennJordan]

Some people enjoy it and I get to hang in real time with viewers. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

I don't mind premieres (I'm watching one right now!), I do find it a bit of a bait-and-switch when KZbin says "one of your favourites has uploaded a video! no, you can't watch it. they've uploaded it, it's complete, you must wait because Reasons"

[@dansimco]

@@BennJordan Thanks! Didn't consider the hang in real time thing. It's hard to come across as genuine in a youtube comment but it was :)

[@exhumus]

FWIW Presonus Series 3 rack mixers work with MPCs when set to 44.1KHz and compatibility mode, giving me 24 inputs and 12 aux outputs in the case of my 24R.

[@abby_photos]

19:10 oh man I love the Bulbpusher

[@jan-k7x1c]

"saving this part for the next time you have insomnia" jokes on you, its 4:46 in the morning, and I indeed have insomnia

[@miaroscfala]

The beat you started at 18:16 is sick bruv. Please finish this one and release it - one pre-order waiting right here...