The worst thing about Psychonauts 2 is also the best

Psychonauts 2 is a champion of player nudges - you know, those diegetic verbal hints that video game characters will throw at you when they think you don't know what you're doing. Nudges are part of the broader pantheon of game hints, in-game tips which can be challenging to implement without being dreadfully condescending.
0:00 It's me, the bad gamer
0:58 Games and subliminal learning
2:06 Games with built-in hints
4:26 Psychonauts 2 and player nudges
5:55 Psychonauts 2's worst boss battle
7:16 Nudges: good or bad?
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#psychonauts2

[@polygon]

Tell me your favorite/least favorite nudge lines.

[@CasuallyConsistent]

The entirety of Skyrim.

[@kyrum1234]

among us

[@HollowRoll]

"The lava is rising, get to high ground"

[@beefpelican]

In Control there’s a bit where you need to match up patterns on screens, and the helpful npc started telling me the solution to the puzzle after I’d already completed half of it. If she’s so smart why can’t she do the puzzle? Why must the Director do everything in this podunk organization?!

[@abramsaustin]

God of War (PS4) was the worst at this, because the boy would tell you the answer to a puzzle before you even got the chance to notice it. The first microsecond you waltz into a room he's yelling "You should cut down that rope!" like dude chill, at least give me a chance first!

[@eoincampbell1584]

I loved how Zagreus talked to himself in Hades. Most often the things he says aren't even nudges they are just expressions of frustration at certain enemies or worry over upcoming bosses that always seemed in line with my experience as the player and made the gameplay feel even more in line with the character than it already was. Then because of those lines when there was a nudge (like when he reminds himself about the status of his current keepsake) it felt completely diegetic.

[@Flameclaw123]

I love the Ace Attorney series, but man, does it bounce wildly back and forth between "unnecessary hand-holding" and "giving the player no information at all and expecting them to know the solution" (hence the popular playstyle of saving, presenting something, not hearing the music cut out, and restarting lmao). Some games nail the balance, and others... not so much

[@Vulkuvier]

i feel like one of the other problems it can sometimes have is when you figure out the problem too early and then you are stuck because you know the solution but need to do some random things before hand to get it to be able to do the solution

[@lunarmagpie619]

Whoever does the captions deserves a raise. It’s SO rare to get musical descriptions as all, let alone funny yet informative descriptions that fit the tone of the overall video.

[@polygon]

I was really inspired by this video that Jenna recommended to all of us: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpfIZWpvprFrnsk I can always improve but I find it really fun to try to find ways to describe some of the audio jokes and music cues - Simone

[@lianneye5061]

@@polygon Wow, congrats on some great work, Simone! Does this mean that all polygon video captions are done by the person who made the specific video?

[@5am_nightmares]

I'm generally a fan of escalating hints like the protagonist talking to themself but it can get pretty annoying if you know how to progress but what to look around a bit before continuing and the game starts giving you hints every 30 seconds

[@KevinCow]

I want to say it was... one of the recent Tomb Raider games that handled this well? It separated combat, puzzle, and exploration difficulty into different options, and the puzzle options pretty much amounted to, "Don't tell me anything," "Give me general hints," and, "Just tell me the solution." And if I recall correctly, you could change difficulty at any time, so you could bump the difficulty up real quick if she got too talkative or bump it down if you were just flat out stuck.

[@specific_pseudonym]

This is precisely why I stopped playing Psychonauts 2. I would often recognize what I needed to do, but wanted to explore more. Which left me hearing the main character's voice repeat the same line, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Ugh.

[@countessoflemongrab]

Uncharted, I think this comment is for you...

[@deadwhitedragon9751]

Reminds me of The Room series of games, where they had this with 3 hints per step in a puzzle. The hints were timed, and it only gave you a hint if you wanted it

[@Swifty_Shifty]

Yeah but im a dumbass and got lost a lot

[@nathancarter8239]

Character in the game: "Hey, King Dragon has a weakness on his back." Me, three more deaths from snapping my controller in half: *I FUCKING KNOW*

[@GamergaidenX]

ugh! Any type of dialogue in combat when the boss is hard is just too much lol. Every time I fought the Owl in Sekiro "It's been a while since we've done this eh?" NO I've been DOING THIS for an HOUR now!

[@herodoesstuff]

there was a couple areas in hollis' hot streak where the player nudges bothered me, bcuz i wanted to just connect a bunch of thoughts and see the funny dialogue u get from connecting things wrong. but the entire time, raz was consistently pushing me over and over again to just connect the right two thoughts :') like i get it, but this part is fun to just play around in

[@therecognitionscene3771]

Oh my god yes! This was also the biggest pain for me. That and when I wanted to search for collectibles before actually finishing the level. It would be nice if you could turn hints off for this reason, but then I think if you got stuck you might forget you turned it off and get frustrated. It must be a hard system to balance. I do think Psychonauts 2 definitely should’ve been less frequent on hints though.

[@GamergaidenX]

@@therecognitionscene3771 Exactly! please let me find the one figment I"m missing in your maze of a level without having to hear "I think the people I'm looking for might be at the top of this mountain" or whatever it says in the PSI King's Sensorium lol. When I was getting the Platinum that level was such a pain to find figments in! That and Bob's Bottles...

[@jaffa4242]

100% i came her to say this. The Forsythe levels give you all those fun ideas to connect (socks with sandals, coriander, disgust, delight, risk, etc.). But as soon as you start playing around, Raz basically just says: "I need her to associate risk with reward". It irritated me so much because the designers obviously *wanted* you to have fun playing around, but doing that ruins the puzzle.

[@Champiness]

This is something I just realized in the course of watching the video, so not, like, a “gotcha”, but is it possible that those lines of dialogue in the Compton’s Cookoff boss fight from Psychonauts 2 _aren’t_ particularly meant as hints, but instead a continued representation of the level’s themes about anxiety that riff on player familiarity with these sorts of condescending advice-in-dialogue moments? Like, the whole experience of the level is a literalization of Compton’s fear that anything he does will not just invite but _merit_ scathing condemnation from the people he cares about for how far he’s missed the mark from both his own intentions and what they wanted out of him, so what better capstone than a boss fight where they literally vomit unidentifiable ingredients at you, and every single time you inevitably pick the wrong one any of like five recognizable voices will come in blaring “OHOHO IT LOOKS LIKE THE PLAYER PICKED THE _WRONG_ ONE, WHY WOULD THEY HAVE DONE THAT WHEN THE RIGHT THING TO DO WAS OBVIOUSLY PICKING THE _RIGHT_ ONE” until you’ve stuffed their faces with so much of what they’re inexplicably demanding that they literally explode, and it’s revealed that these voices and their expectations and their implied grave consequences for failure didn’t exist anywhere outside of Compton’s head, and it’s perfectly fine for him to ask for help or clearer instructions if that’s something he needs. Honestly going into this the Compton’s Cookoff boss was my least favorite in the game - and, like, it probably still is, those voice lines for the vomiting puppets are gross - but this video’s ironically led me to respect it a lot more.

[@omreee686]

This is what I thought too, the point of the battle is to make you feel terrible and I read those lines as intentionally condescending. I still hate it though, was by far the hardest boss for me

[@GreenPiCat]

This is a really great point!

[@theHeftyFine]

Exactly this, and the general antagonizing, pushy nature of the level makes it one of my favorite. Great use of gameplay as story telling device... if it was intentional.

[@bigbadgammagnome]

Yeah but it doesn't explain Compton's complaining at you, surely he of all people should be less judgemental. Whenever the announcer berated me I wasn't bothered, but Compton saying "why are you going on the purple stuff? It hurts you" for the tenth time made me want to scream (yes buddy, I KNOW I'm bad at dodging it, PLEASE stop telling me it's hurting me I can see my health going down) So yeah, if it was just the goats or announcer berating you, I think it works well, but with Compton thrown into the mix, I had to turn voices off in the menu to finish that fight

[@Champiness]

@@bigbadgammagnome In line with the “Compton has to act for himself with only long-distance help from Raz” plot beat that this fight serves as you could _maybe_ read it as him learning to delegate responsibility and expect things from others the way he has from himself for so long - that said you’re right that I heard him asking “why are you touching that regurgitated matter” _waaaay_ too many times for my liking, and if there’s any fight in the game that bears the hallmarks of Double Fine resolving to cut the bosses for financial reasons before getting bought out by Microsoft at a later point in development and receiving a “nah we’ll spot you for that if it makes the game better” notice from their new owners it’s probably this one.

[@Rsfarmerbob]

Unfortunately when I see a loading screen I lose the ability to read-The funniest part by far

[@Rachel-xf3op]

Similarly, I lose the ability to hear when someone tries to give me tips on playing a game, much to my boyfriend's frustration

[@Rsfarmerbob]

@@Rachel-xf3op lol ikr?

[@Rsfarmerbob]

@@Rachel-xf3op I am locked in, the house could burn down …but I am going to get this boss kill🤣

[@Rachel-xf3op]

The nudges are one of the worst parts of Oxenfree (a game I dearly love). The characters will tell you "Come on, Alex, tune into [station]" (I assume so you don't forget?) but they do it so quickly and so often that you don't have a chance start your task before they start talking. So it ends up feeling like nagging most of the time.

[@Amonkira1029]

Oxenfree feels like it has a lot of dialogue to get through, and they have to say it all before you do the thing correctly and move forward.

[@wowowood7520]

I’m 90% sure that there is no way to tell which ingredient is which and that it’s random, though they should’ve made it so that they only say something if you run out of time or throw in the wrong ingredient

[@polygon]

That would be a nice solution - Simone

[@sarispooks6366]

yeah i do beleve that was on perpus like that whole level was about being told something you allready know and still being wrong n like i totly get it being anoying but i think itr was supose to be in that instince.

[@Blamwellamum]

Exactly, it's all random. I watched a speedrun commented by the devs, and there's no way to tell and they spawn in random spots.

[@Banjeoin]

It's definitely frustrating to hear the cookout commentator berate you for picking up the wrong thing even though there's no way for you to know, but weirdly in Psychonauts' case I feel that negative experience for the player is an effective choice on a story/emotional level, since it lets you experience some of Compton's negative self-talk! I love how Psychonauts 2's levels try to put you in the headspace of its characters, with the cookout level conveying Compton's overwhelming anxiety and self-criticism. There's a really nice detail in how the boss judge puppets of his peers are held up by his own hands - he's his own worst critic!

[@sarispooks6366]

@@Banjeoin that's what im saying it was done on purpose to put you in the mind set of level

[@elvenbee7006]

Theres a moment in dishonored 2, in a mission called "a crack in the slab" where I was trying to find the combo to a safe: after a few minutes of searching I decided to just google it, and left Corvo next to the safe and what do I hear while googling in my ear? Corvo himself go "might be open in the present" and I sighed, put my phone down and right clicked because yes - I'd forgotten I could time travel, the major mechanic in that level, thank you Corvo for being the braincells of this partnership

[@polygon]

LOL YES, that is a perfect example! - Simone

[@CasuallyConsistent]

Todd Howard

[@diamondjoltva]

Todd Howard

[@BluesMoth64]

Todd Howard

[@polygon]

Thanks Todd

[@ironwraith852]

Todd Howard

[@ThatzaTastySmash]

Truely words to live by, thank you for your valuable insight, Todd Howard.

[@sw0rdhyd350]

Alternate title for this video: 8 and a half minutes of Simone roasting herself.

[@till5871]

Smt 4 has a map but it's never telling you where to go next. So the game characters might say things like "okay we have to go to ginza underground Station next" but you'll have no idea /where/ that was. So on my first playthrough, I'd often result to looking at the real google maps Tokyo to get a hint at what direction to go next. It was weird but definitely perfect to make me relate to the protagonist. A fish out if water, lost alone and confused, relying on a shitty map for directions.

[@MrSandMan961]

SMT4 makes no distinction between areas that you find on the world map and areas you find within areas on the world map, which could hold towns, dungeons or singular rooms. It's SO bad and makes the game incredibly difficult to complete.

[@gamesnoop3]

I love the from-home style videos from polygon nowadays because I get to see all of the members’ cozy bedrooms and apartments. Whether they’re minimalist like Simone’s or clutter-core like…others’… it makes me happy seeing yall’s personalities expressed in your layouts 😊

[@polygon]

Thank you 😭

[@sterlingpratt4901]

I would love to see an "MTV Cribs" style breakdown of everyone's dwellings. 🖤

[@lavendermenace8078]

@@sterlingpratt4901 that would be really cool but show their gamer space!

[@KevinCow]

The nudges that drove me nuts in Psychonauts 2 were the combat ones. Pretty much every time you hit an enemy with a power besides the one it's weak against, Raz will remind you which power you're supposed to use. Which would already be annoying in its own right for it to be that frequent and continue all the way to the end of the game. But on top of that, your main attack gains the ability to chain to nearby enemies when you upgrade it. So if you're attacking the weak enemies who just happen to be standing near strong enemies, it'll chain to the strong enemies and make Raz yell at you about it. It annoyed me so much that I literally put my TV on mute during some of the optional combat challenges.

[@zombie_reagan]

i hate to be that person not even 10 minutes after the video was uploaded, but perception is a wisdom skill and not an intelligence skill

[@polygon]

Well, this is exactly the kind of mistake I would make when failing my intelligence roll - Simone

[@wesleyevans2981]

@@polygon You might have been thinking of Investigation, that's an intelligence check. For what it's worth, lots of players and DM's confuse when to Perception or Investigation

[@jaffa4242]

Or she's just using a different TTRPG system :P

[@baronsengir187]

The Darksouls Boss you see when you turn around is not the first boss. But a secret Boss you can get to through the birds nest later on.

[@danshee5002]

I thought jumping on the tooth made perfect sense to me as well but on my playthrough I instantly tried shooting them in a sort of process of elimination method trying the ways NOT to advance just because I was curious and want to explore the games boundaries first

[@granite_planet]

Game tester mindset :D

[@maverickREAL]

The Skunkape remaster of Sam and Max: Beyond Time and Space has optional nudges, you can turn the frequency of them up and down. They're all hilarious, in character and not super obvious, and never come off as "condescending," at least in my opinion.

[@alienjesus796]

I kinda thought that was an intentional choice, since the cooking show represented Compton's stress and anxiety. I assumed they were trying to annoy the player on purpose

[@polygon]

This is a really interesting point!! It certainly worked. -Simone

[@arthuralmeida6049]

same

[@eos_aurora]

Perhaps! That’s still makes it annoying to play though

[@Andyman620]

its not nudge dialogue, but i love how in hollow knight, there are a couple areas where they want you to crystal dash across a pit of some kind, and they subtly tell you to by having crystals on the floor or wall.

[@pinstripeowl]

Oh good shout, yeah I loved that about the game!

[@pdlbean]

One of these that always bothered me is when the game really wants you to know you can leave the Hinterlands and go to Val Royeaux a the beginning of Dragon Age: Inquisition. "We have enough now to go to Val Royeaux!" Yeah, I know, but maybe I want to lead the Druffalo home first, SOLAS.

[@NihilistCrab]

It's even better when you get that line and you haven't even discussed going to Val Royeaux yet because you've been doing everything other than the main quest bit.

[@Wrenfire]

I didn't think that what puppet Zannato was saying was a nudge, I thought it was more of Compton's self doubt talking

[@Shaun742]

I've just got round to playing Psychonauts 2 and was disappointed to learn there's not a way to turn these things off. Why are you still telling me how to kill Panic Attacks? I've already killed tens of them!

[@sentientblender]

shoutout to when you get the psi blast upgrade that chains hits between enemies and you’re killing an enabler with it and every time you hit the enabler and it chains to an invincible enemy raz remarks on how it didn’t do anything

[@YuriHabadakas]

@@sentientblender oh god, that one too. Yup.

[@toyo5134]

Beggining of Borderlands 3, Claptrap tells you to look for a shield, but no marker nor area where the shield is. You would think the game is bugged, but you are supposed to find a needle in a 50m radius. Claptrap later tells you the exact location, but only after 3 WHOLE MINUTES of complete silence, to make you feel more like a dum-dum! It's surprising how I played that part 3 times already but still gets me...

[@d20plusmodifier]

"GET UP ON THE HYDRA'S BACK" was a visceral memory I didn't know I still had.

[@medievalsim]

I never really disliked the cooking game except for getting all the figments. I wasn't bothered by the nudges for some reason and understood it was basically RNG, so the bad wasn't there for me. That said, wonderful video today~

[@Retro_Red]

Wait...can you use Pyrokinesis to clean the food? I know there are some ways to get rid of some of the vomit, but I've only seen Snapcube's playthrough.

[@nothingbutgianttrees1995]

0:56 "Hey! HEY! Listen, listen! Hey!" *flashbacks of Ocarina of Time intensify* 6.6

[@skylarjekyll8878]

I promise I’m not trying to be annoying, but I’m pretty sure I just psyblasted the puke blobs and uncovered them that way? I don’t think you’re supposed to be able to tell them apart from the blobs.

[@polygon]

That’s interesting!! If there had been a voice nudge prodding me to do that….THAT WOULD’VE BEEN NICE. Also explains why the game was so mad at me for picking up the wrong food all the time. -Simone

[@sandeater0214]

Babe wake up new Simone video

[@CharlesAnjos]

i actually talk to myself a lot when I'm solving stuff, so i dunno. also, i like that the vocal judges help construct the world. also, i don't believe that the vomit blobs are discernable, so i guess those are not really nudges to help with gameplay but actual worldbuilding. i dunno, i didn't mind that stuff so much. if anything, it helped flesh out the world around me.

[@ThereAre4Lights]

Wow that phone call to the Nintendo help line was so wholesome and cute 😭

[@otempora16]

my favorite “nudge” was at the end of breath of the wild, when i’d fought my way through every stage of the climactic battle and then (stupidly) couldn’t figure out how to land the finishing blow. the game gave me a minute to work it out myself and then had zelda speak up to give a couple hints, first vague ones and then a little more specific. it worked great for two reasons. first, it fit with the narrative: zelda has been speaking to link and guiding him from afar since literally the first moment of the game, so it didn’t break immersion and in away almost felt satisfyingly full-circle. and secondly, the timing was right. i had already finished the real challenge (meaning both the boss battle and the entire game that came before it). the music was swelling triumphantly and i was all geared up for the conclusion. if i’d gotten frustrated and pulled out my phone to google, it would have broken the flow, ruined the mood, and soured literally the final moment of the game. by getting a diegetic, in-narrative hint, i finished feeling triumphant, instead of defeated.

[@polygon]

Ooh, that’s really nice

[@CatCheshireThe]

I feel like one thing that player nudges get wrong a lot is they tend to be very bad at accounting for people playing at different paces. There are so many games where if you're just wandering around exploring a room and looking at details, it will interpret that as "oh you're stuck on the puzzle" and keep dropping more and more hints about how to solve the thing that you probably already figured out and just chose not to do right now

[@raccoonja5905]

It would be great to be able to select your playstyle or even better have the game track your playstyle in the first level(s) and then ajust the frequency of nudges. For example if the player ist just standing/walking close to the puzzle, solves it immediatly or takes time to explore the full room and collect everything.

[@jaffa4242]

Yessss let me tell the game that i will be reading every book spine in the library and analysing every in-world painting

[@SerpiaXerma]

Would Zelda’s (in)famous sidekick genre of hint-giving fall under any of these? They’re technically optional and not required to be listened to for progression most of the time, but they offer pretty explicit directions on what to do or where to go. *Thank you, Navi, but I am already IN Death Mountain.*

[@alexaurorus9767]

GET UP ON THE HYDRA’S BACK

[@rissawillis8594]

I love this! Another great couple of examples of nudges and hints are 1) The Long Dark (for nudges). In survival mode, most of the player character's voice lines are things like "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse" and "night's coming on, I need to find some shelter". Little things to remind the player to check their stats or prepare. These work really well because I, too, would talk to myself in these circumstances. and 2) The Nancy Drew games by HER Interactive all have an in-game hint system where you literally get on the phone and call a friend (one of the other book characters; Bess, George, Ned, or the Hardy Boys) for help. It's nice because by calling them you also get access to extra story, as each of them normally has something silly going on back home (like trying and failing to learn how to cook!), and before you ask for a hint you get to hear Nancy relay the story as she knows it so far. Sometimes just hearing this is all the hint you need, but if it's not, you can ask Nancy's friends for advice. It's very well done!

[@nvrndingsmmr]

Get up on the hydra's back! Get up on the hydra's back! Get up on the hydra's back!

[@Adrian_1114]

My most memorable strong nudge was in Batman Arkham Asylum where you had to scan a painting of the warden and it took me like 10-15 minutes of hearing the riddler screaming at me to figure out I was scanning the wrong picture. Granted I was like 9 when I played it.

[@matthewzaloudek]

1:39 This happens in Dark Souls 2, too. Also the enemy you see is not the first boss in DS1 but the Stray demon boss you come back to later.

[@beccahaley]

I love psychonauts 2 so much but god I HATED the goat fight, when I went through all of the blobs and the ingredient wasn't even there I considered homicide

[@LeoMafraArt]

I don’t think you’re supposed to tell the ingredients covered in goo apart. But I bet some play testers kept just throwing anything at the pipes or trying to directly feed the judges so they put those lines in there.

[@AmyDentata]

Some of the platforming wonkiness in Psychonauts 2 is because there sometimes aren't enough depth cues to judge jumps. Some people can develop a sixth sense for how far to jump, but you really shouldn't have to IMO!

[@MonocleTopHats]

Simone outing herself as a pathfinder second edition player by using intelligence for perception

[@justmonica9253]

...What? Perception is *still* wisdom in pf2e. wdym

[@MonocleTopHats]

@@justmonica9253 lol whoops I meant SOTDL player, got rulesets mixed up

[@elderberryva9282]

The Sholmes/Naruhodo Deduction sequences could’ve been such a fun addition to Ace Attorney had they not just been like “You glanced at the *candlestick*!” (time stops) “That doesn’t sound right, Mr. Naruhodo.” “I agree.” “So you agree with me that it isn’t right.” “Yes, I do agree with you that it isn’t right.” “The question now is what he was actually glancing at.” “Yes, I agree.” “People typically look at things when they glance at them.” “Yes, I agree.” “And if he’s looking in that direction, he’s probably looking at something in that direction.” “Yes, I agree.” “But not the candlestick.” “Yes, I agree.” “I believe it would be best if you were to look in that direction as well, Mr. Naruhodo.” “Yes, I agree.” “(Hmm… Something ‘in that direction’…)” Edit: and then there are only like 2 other possible options

[@polygon]

I'm lOSING IT this is exactly what it's like!!!! WHY!! - Simone

[@SirCowduck]

The deduction sequences are so great like the first three times, but once some of the glitter of the presentation wears off it just kinda becomes "turn slightly left and click the big flag." The one in the wax museum about the "motionless" police officer comes to mind.

[@generallyjl]

almost completely unrelated but LOVING the music captions at the end

[@Michael_Lindell]

These nudges are finger-clicking good!

[@ShenDoodles]

This was a great video, partially because it gives two of my favorite games I played in 2021 more attention. One of the best moments from There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension is a puzzle that basically has the solution explained to you without explicitly telling you what to do.

[@polygon]

It’s such a stunningly creative game! -Simone

[@fgbgob]

1:57 but perception is Wisdom!

[@TheHunterTheory]

Glad someone already Um, Actually'd this. Wait, wrong channel? Meh.

[@redsands1001]

@@TheHunterTheory would like to see polygon folks on um actually though

[@AuntBibby]

with password entry boxes, when you type in the first letter of your password and the website immediately says “your password must be more than 1 letter”….. is that a player nudge?

[@Kryptnyt]

There's always some sweet spot in the between of "Castlevania: Lords of Shadow is backseating itself at every turn" and "You have to scour the Wiki to even remotely understand what's going on in this survival game" I think it's nice when hints are only presented in the easiest difficulty

[@RCReilly]

Thank you for mentioning those goat bosses from Psychonauts 2. It took me far too long to beat them because of those indecipherable puke blobs!

[@jack0slack]

Spider-Man’s nudges are interesting in that they’re less for problem solving and more reminding you that it has an actual plot.

[@elisabeththinkjump4586]

My least favourite nudge line is Donald in Kingdom Hearts 3. „This might be a good place to find some ingredients!“ It is always the same line and it is so annoying. I am Not looking for ingredients, Donald!

[@mishx62]

I hadn't even realized the cooking challenge lines were nudges, I thought they were just randomly mocking me because that's what happens in this cooking show, and I'm still convinced you're just meant to pick them up and hope you've randomly taken the right one.

[@VanillaNukaCola]

1:50 well that first Demon is the Stray Demon, the actual "first challenge" is the Asylum Demon. The example still applies for subliminal learning as it is the devs way of showing you there is a hidden area with a second boss you can fight

[@soundfable9909]

That boss fight drove me crazy. The vomiting sound made me physically sick and I kept dying because I was too annoyed to figure out how to avoid the vomit on the ground. The answer was obvious, but the one time I needed an explicit hint I got a whole bunch of nudges for sfuff that was blatantly obvious. That boss fight (and the egregious nudges in Hollis' mental connection section) really dampened my experience. I don't know if I'll ever replay because of that boss fight.

[@polygon]

it destroyed me. I can't tell you how many times i got to the very last set of ingredients and then died to the judge, or by falling off the level while trying to bubble through the vomit, or any silly little thing. it was torture. - Simone

[@soundfable9909]

@@polygon I feel so vindicated that I'm not the only one. 😭

[@NickPiers]

I've never seen the Super Mario Bros example of subluminal learning, before but that's a great example. The first time I learned about subluminal learning was from Half-Life 2 and its commentary. They talk about teaching players a new skill in 3 stages. First stage is showing you the skill or having an NPC tell you what to do. Second stage is testing to see if the player understands the skill and uses it in a safe environment. Third stage is a more dangerous skill testing area. So, similar to the Mario jumping example, but expanded upon.

[@_Mike_Omega_]

I did NOT expect a reference to the 7th Guest in 2022...

[@polygon]

Boy, if you like ancient fmvs, stick around 👁 -Simone

[@skeletonmeatphantasylibrary]

If you pause at just the right time as the Polygon logo is forming, it spells out "Pog" and it's just so true

[@polygon]

Honestly, same.

[@thierryfux7318]

I love these deconstructions. Also Simone's presentation style is so great :)

[@pagodrink]

oh boy, I just picked up the Great Ace Attorney on switch after waiting on a sale and having played all the other main entries in the series, I really don't need more hints for the series. I'm still just on the first trial and I've heard this is one of the best entries from people, so hopefully it isn't so bad for me.

[@skydiamsteam6005]

The worst part of the games are easily the first cases of the first game so it gets amazing near the end of the first and then during the entire second game

[@polygon]

Goooooood luck -Simone

[@ofirstroh]

It can be... bad if you have experience with the other games, but make sure to enable skipping in the settings and have some patience, I had a great time with in the end despite the frustration

[@zachwilkens7524]

I'm glad I clicked because I love Simone's videos but by the title alone I almost didn't because I haven't played the Psychonauts games. If this video had been titled something like "Psychonauts 2 and video game hint systems" I think it would pull in more views with a more accurate description!

[@toniconge7003]

I really like the nudges in Naughty Dog games. Exploreing a temple for 3 minutes looking for the ancient relic not finding whatever level I need and then an NPC will say "hey check this out" makes me feel like they're exploreing the temple with me.

[@Bacxaber]

That Mario example is called an antepiece, btw. Good vid.

[@zumabbar]

5:28 i have to write a comment appreciating this bit, it's so hilarious

[@RedGunnerguy]

First off, good video and editing to yourself and the team. Now I must type comment! I totally agree, that nudges are a very fine line when you have a puzzle to solve. Make it too easy, and it wasnt fun therefore player might stop playing the game. Make it too hard, and players get frustrated . Consider this, in that tooth section, notice that Raz only said if after you failed a few times. I did it right away as the section right before taught you how to shoot, and I play enough video games to get the hint. However , there were sections I was playing with my younger brother watching he only got half the puzzle guesses right. He has played allot less games. As for Comptons Cookoff.....that is the best and worst example. I think its fine not to tell which item is which, because you HAVE TO MAKE A MISTAKE, AND TRY AGAIN TO SUCCEED. The entire mental state of Compton is is that he is constantly feeling judges, hences does NOTHING. He so afraid/affected of criticism from his peers that it affects his ability to perform. In the begining of the level, in the platforming section he gives up and disappears on you. The goats are a how he sees himself being judges, which is to say very very very harshly. I'm sure we all know people like that. Your job/role as Raz, is to help him bear the burden of his judgement to still get the dish made, criticism or not. OF COURSE I KNOW THAT NOT WHAT INGREDEINT I WANT STOP JUDGING ME.....that the point. That how Compton feels. Then I threw the damn thing at the judges out of spite and try again until I beat them. Its game desgin and symbolism as it best. Its okay, its easy to miss the game design when done right. The job of a good desgin is when you dont even know its there.

[@linden4372]

Oh yeah I have to say that was my least favorite boss fight too. At least the constant verbal criticism kinda made narrative sense because the level was about Compton’s fear of being judged and making mistakes?

[@svrvphimprod]

"I love this, it has all the help of reddit but without the R E D D I T" Legendary joke. 10/10

[@BallotBoxer]

Yuan Shao: "Don't pursue Lu Bu." Good advice.

[@madsstokes]

"Oh no." -Simone

[@DannoHung]

"Oh nyo." -Simone, but UwU

[@DupeFortGaming]

The line "if your low intelligence score makes you miss perception checks like this" made me reconsider life and existence. Why does my brain throw in a red alert and go into overdrive to fetch the nugget of information that a perception check uses Wisdom, not Intelligence? How is this relevant to the survival of our species? I need to go lie down.

[@SupahTrunks7]

Apparently pathfinder 2E used int for perception.

[@DupeFortGaming]

@@SupahTrunks7 Then all is good in the world

[@CianDelano]

5:24 .... y-yeah, talking to yourself about where you put things when cooking when it is not a regular item you grab... nope, never done that >.>

[@reubenm.d.5218]

"Commander, the aliens continue to make progress on the Avatar Project. If we're gonna slow them down we need to MOVE FAST."

[@danirodriguez3682]

GET UP ON THE HYDRA’S BACK!! The timeless and subtle bit of gameplay design that lives rent free in all our hearts.

[@norahporter4075]

as someone who loves the sound synthesis puzzle at the start of myst 4 but despises the constant "nudges," i loved the little clip at 0:34

[@polygon]

You can thank Comics editor Susana Polo for that!

[@cash_burner]

1:49 The boss you see in the prison basement in dark souls is not your first challenge its stray demon who you fight later if you come back to the tutorial area, although it looks identical to the first boss, it technically isnt the first boss.

[@nunyabisness7055]

5:27 I have said to myself "Flour, that's beside the fridge" before. This is an attack on me, personally.

[@bitnewt]

It's such a good game, I was surprised to find they didn't have the option to turn off the hints or specifically ask for them instead. There were times when I saw a puzzle and decided to explore the area for collectables first, and the game decided that I took too long and just told me the solution to the puzzle before I got to try it myself. How did it get through QA, since the rest of the game is so polished? I wonder if it was a late addition, forced by executives or something.

[@Randuski]

Og Mario was so clever with this. It tells you everything before you know how to do it. You start on the far left. Meaning you should go right. Enemies will do things in the distance, showing you what to do, or what not to do. There was so much intention with it. Teaching people who've never played games, how to navigate it, without explaining it. Fucking brilliant

[@reaperman111]

thank you for the emetophobia warning!

[@edburton6801]

This was a fantastic video. Thank you 🙏🏻😊

[@haxzie8644]

It never bothered me on the chef boss battle, I always thought of it as the game trying to be mean at you in a Glados kinda vibe like "oh my good how could you have been so Stoopid to pick the wrong one it was obvious! Duh"

[@TheDiplomancer]

Simone is the representation I need. I love games! I am also bad at games!

[@rachelrachel9152]

Pokemon is interesting bc the question of nudges is more about when you forget what to do. Like typically it is said in dialogue what exactly needs to be done to take you to the next step, but if you're 7 and weren't paying attention and don't remember there's a plot until a month later, then the question is is there an obvious enough npc that can remind you what to do

[@GamergaidenX]

My favorite player nudges are the ones that prevent me from wasting time trying to get something I can't get yet in a level. Like there's a gap and maybe enough of a ledge or something to make me think I can platform over the gap and grab a collectible. But it's actually impossible until you get a double jump ability or grappling hook or something. A lot of games may have an obvious indicator like Ocarina of Time's wooden markers for a grappling hook or something like that but sometimes I'm not sure if I'm just bad at the game or I'm missing an ability. Then the character nudges with "Hmm... I may have to come back for that later when I can maybe jump farther" and I know I can continue on my merry way until I unlock said ability. Although it is so aggravating as a completionist when I can't grab everything on the first run through a level, I appreciate when I can just move along (although a way to mark in game maps with icons to remember where that "gap" IS later would be appreciated as well...)

[@HollowRoll]

That boss battle was definitely by far the worst part of that game. When I was playing, i died with only a sliver of the health bar left, and then had to redo the entire fight again, which is essentially an autoscroller.

[@polygon]

I think it took me over an hour to beat, with my poor, wonderful friend supporting me emotionally via discord 😭 it felt like we’d been through hell together -Simone

[@Star_R666]

Same happened to me so I cheated just a bit by changing it to invincible just for that fight. Yeah, I know it's cheating but better than the frustration of knowing it will probably happen again and again.

[@Leah-xh1rc]

I don't recall the fortune teller in Okami but I'm pretty sure Issun would help you when you failed by relentlessly humiliating you over it.

[@SIBUK]

You weren't supposed to know what each blob contained. You were supposed to keep picking random ones until you got what you needed. That was my favourite boss!

[@dudacampos6841]

God of War 4 has some pretty good dialogue, but sometimes you're exploring an area, trying to find some secrets and Atreus starts going "I don't know why we're still here" and I feel like yelling "DUDE, chill out, let me explore or Imma snap your lil neck"

[@blackandwhiteful]

The only problem with the nudges is once in psychonauts 2 I walked into a room with a puzzle in and raz IMMEDIATELY said the answer

[@polygon]

Ah, that's a bummer - Simone

[@campos3452]

I hate loading screen tips or in game tips. Especially the ones that disappear to fast off screen. Fortunately we have real-time capture on todays consoles so we can record what was previously shown on screen. Though some games have a tab for tips a must that is always welcomed. Also input lag plays a big problem with some games if your having trouble.

[@jonathanlautre489]

The absolute worst offender in the game for me was the letter writing level. The story behind the level and the execution were so beautiful, and this Aha! moment when you realize what you were meant to type with the type writer would have been such a powerful experience... ... ... if the game didn't up and just tell you what it was before you were given even one minute to think for yourself.

[@hallo4411]

I didn't mind the hinds in the compton level. I thought It added to the the level the cooking madness and anxiety "theme" of compton.

[@julianperson5797]

surprised the hint coin system from the professor layton games wasn't mentioned! usually the hints are a few steps at a time (for sliding block puzzles usually) or little suggestions. they're entirely optional and the later games added a super hint that costs 2 hint coins instead of one which gets you Closer to the answer. the game does punish you if you fail (you lose picarats, the puzzle score points, the first 3 i think times you get a puzzle wrong? but after that you don't lose more and the picarats are only used for postgame bonus content So Like. not a big deal) and also there's like. sequel puzzles? like in 2 there's a series of jumping chess knight puzzles where you have to lead him around the chessboard and have him jump on every square only once and the sequel puzzles change the board and expand upon it and their hints REFERENCE previous hints in the knight jump puzzles? it's good

[@polygon]

I really need to play those dang games don't I. - Simone

[@dwainetrain]

Can you tag videos like these as game design? I found this very informative, and want to explore more, but I'm not sure what to look for on your channel. Thanks!

[@mavis_draq]

New problem is PS5 loads so fast the loading screen hints are pretty unhelpful now

[@WarHero373]

After beating the game, I would say the nudges are a little much. Like I’m glad they are there but still like every 5 seconds lol