Porsche 718 Boxster T | The Heated Debate

We review the 2021 Porsche 718 Boxster T 4 Cylinder. This "affordable" sports car adds lighter weight and better fuel efficiency while still being an enthusiast product and driver's car. We discuss the technical details, good and bad, and argue the price. Others to consider, Lotus Evora GT, Toyota Supra, BMW M4, Corvette C8, Mazda Miata, and GT500.
#cars #porsche #718
Index:
00:00 Intro
00:57 Interior Impressions
3:19 Mechanical Impressions, Story and Suspension and Chassis
7:04 Driving Impressions, Explaining the Feel
18:05 Final Thoughts

[@kevinc31]

Man I loved when Jack and Mark were arguing.. Sounded like a married couple. So funny. Great vid and love the content. Thx guys

[@panzer_TZ]

The dynamic between Jack and Mark are a gem of this channel. It really gives an authentic view into their personalities and views.

[@kevinc31]

@@panzer_TZ I completely agree.

[@povertyspec9651]

I thought they were married

[@kevinc31]

@@povertyspec9651 hahahaha

[@hbullock]

It sounds too authentic (the arguing). I genuinely don’t think they like each other. It’s awkward, just like watching a married couple argue that you aren’t sure will stay married. Facial expressions and body language tell all.

[@chrish9502]

Never stop bringing cost as a factor into these reviews. You guys are great, thanks

[@alyandjake9090]

Jumbo shrimp

[@skyzkid415]

Jumbo shrimp 🦐

[@seamusmcfitz913]

Maybe buy a miata if you can't afford a Porsche.

[@chrish9502]

@@seamusmcfitz913 jumbo shrinp

[@seamusmcfitz913]

@@chrish9502 you win.

[@KingThallion]

Jack has really come into his own. Really speaks to Mark's ability to integrate Jack- you guys have a great program here!

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Yes he has. Do you like his final thoughts better?

[@PianoBlackTrimRep.]

They are lovers and have great communication skills with each other.

[@pepe8196]

Some nights I spank it to my Porsche. Other nights I spank to Mark and Jack.

[@clu4u]

@@PianoBlackTrimRep. Nah, they bicker like me and my bruh.

[@Tanstin1]

Mark and Jack have better communication skills than many married couples.

[@mixwellusa]

That's because they're both men, lol.

[@speakingtruths4215]

@@mixwellusa My wife and I communicate well, but you have a good point.

[@Adrian913af]

It's my 30th birthday. I now have come to realize that my days are numbered as I sit on the porcelain throne. But by God does this notification for a new Savagegeese video make it all the more better

[@megaxboxx]

work out, get in stupid good shape, do whatever you wana do, cuz we never know when we'll be rotting in a box... it can literally happen anytime, heart attack, cancers, etc. its all up to God

[@geoffwatches]

Don't say that - I'm 36!

[@agenericaccount3935]

Early-onset mortality awareness. Happens to the best of us. Edit: and yes, happy birthday too. 🎂 🚘

[@LogicalQ]

Assuming this is all a simulation, that I was able to choose the point in time I began, and knowing myself now… Get your 718 now, ‘cause we’re going to see the end.

[@eLKaymusic]

At 42, I feel the same way whenever that notification pops up. It's the little things. 😅

[@admireinspire]

I love when mark is devil's advocate even when it means ignoring his own beliefs and feelings😂

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Yeah you could tell he was struggling with his words. He enjoyed the car a lot. Would you buy one?

[@bella_testastretta]

15:48 😂

[@aidancragg2122]

Good to see you back on the public road. The reviews at the track don’t do it for me.

[@ervin7178]

The GLA is the only car appropriate for the track.

[@mattdouglas8900]

That LC500 ain't gonna pay for itself

[@nappiechan9208]

@@ervin7178 fax

[@DainLaguna]

I appreciate when y’all get Hans Zimmer to score one of your vids.

[@nateisright]

The Alfa 4C is north of $70k, so relatively the 718T is a screaming bargain. 300ps, clutch pedal, legit 170mph top speed; you’re getting a lot. And just look at it. It’s beautiful!

[@PianoBlackTrimRep.]

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how insanely skilled Savagegeese is at making his reviews. That was some NEXT LEVEL shit mate!

[@wrxtim09]

Whenever I get on YT and see a new savagegeese video, I don't get any work done. This is the best channel. I'm pretty sure other car review channels just regurgitate what these guys say.

[@12ealDealOfficial]

It's like that with videogames, movies, and musical stuff too, I noticed. There's a brief that goes into circulation to all the mainstream outlets, who then crib or otherwise borrow their "review" wholesale once an advertising check clears. I notice marketing speak and the same descriptors being used all the time. These "reviews" are generally written before the product is released the same way press releases get reposted with a few extra sentences spliced in by a copy editor with the journalist having minimal input.

[@wrxtim09]

@@12ealDealOfficial all I know is if I hear 1 more person say "The S2000 had the most hp per liter, before the Fer..." I swear to God, I'm going to drive my S2000 into a bus full of kids.

[@kenlee-97]

@@wrxtim09 hilarious.

[@CapELarry]

I’m with Jack. The older cabin is better. The new ones are plastered with screens and glass black.

[@simJ94]

How old are you?

[@rpowell138]

I have a 2018 GTS I bought CPO this year. I really like the interior. Wish the full leather was standard though. Compared to the Supra (which I was also looking at) I much preferred this.

[@2006gtobob]

Give me real physical gages or give me death!

[@Jay-tc9on]

This! 100 percent this and the 991 one is peak porsche interior design. Apple carplay and a decent screen but still physical gauges and real buttons.

[@zacharyfriedrich1343]

I'm on the other side. I want a more special interior for that price. Better to save up more money or get a cheaper car that delivers most of the enjoyment.

[@sephiros9883]

This as to be one of the best argumentation I've seen on youtube. This channel is so underrated still... it's crazy.

[@ArisBalomenos]

Excellent video, you guys are great! As an owner of the Boxster T, I can say that if anybody is debating whether to pull the trigger or not, to go ahead, they will not regret it. Have owned it since April, have put over 6K miles on it and have not regretted the purchase. Absolutely love the car and have been enjoying everything about it.

[@Tx4ever1234]

You have convinced me! I’m glad you love your car!

[@fashionablylate888]

Everyone on the Porsche Forum had nothing but great things to say about it.

[@dss3113]

I currently own a pretty decently specked 718 base (after owning a 981). I recently had the chance to try out a GTS 4.0. Putting the sentimental part of the 6-cylinder howl aside, I came to the conclusion that I am actually really liking the 2.0 base as a package. The GTS would have been around 35.000 $ more compared to what I purchased the base 2.0 for. That is a substantial amount of money. Add to that taxes which are 3x of what I pay for my 2.0, an issuance which would cost me 30% more, higher maintenance costs and the fact that I average 32.7 mpg including using my car as a daily commuter and blasting up and down mountain passes in my free time. As an enthusiast and someone who could afford the GTS 4.0: Yes, the sound is awesome, revving it out is lots of fun and the responsiveness of the engine is amazing. But does it make up for the flawed gear ratios? For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? For all the extra costs that come attached to it? In my opinion: No The 4-cylinder engines have been talked down upon a lot, but I quite like what this car represents and it’s character. Light, nimble, fun.

[@cayman9815]

Hi, thanks for yr opinion. As you, I currently own C981 and thinking to change to 718C T. I share the idea that the 4.0 would be great, but very expensive (fuel & taxes in Europa) Only doubt I have is the engine sound: will I miss the 981 for that reason ? Pls advise. Rgs & see my channel

[@Uncle19]

"For the fact that I can barely rev out 2nd gear without loosing my license? " - very well put. I feel the same way especially on my little back roads.

[@PointNemo9]

You could have just stuck with the 981 and saved a lot more money.

[@dss3113]

@@PointNemo9 Don’t get me wrong, the 981 was lovely and I still remember that flat 6 note fondly. However it was a pretty basic spec, like for example no xenon headlights, no cruise control etc. The 718, especially since I daily it, is a far more capable and complete car. The very accessible power is a nice plus as well. Thanks to the pandemic I was able to sell my 981 for a handsome profit and that made getting the 718 a no-brainer.

[@PointNemo9]

@dss3113 Surely you could have gotten a much better specced 981 instead

[@bilakh7]

This is what I love about these guys. I'm not here for Porsche, I'm here for the debate!

[@kenim]

Yep! The cars are just the canvas for another great Savageese experience. Their honesty about how a product compares vs the broad market and not just the new car market is very refreshing and informative.

[@MrSlash00r]

"I would choose this over a C8." "So would I". lol - love the channel, you guys. I just don't know how they can sell this over a 718 S or a GTS.

[@AlvinBrinson]

People buy with their hearts as much as the numbers, or more than the numbers.

[@air-headedaviator1805]

@@AlvinBrinson thats true. The cars I currently want most couldn’t be described as the top performers in their field

[@Sinoops]

I would definitely get a GTS over a C8. But I don't think I could get over that 4 cylinder on the 718 S. It sounds so much worse and makes so much less power than the V8 in the C8.

[@air-headedaviator1805]

@@Sinoops maybe thats the main problem of the 718. All the money is in its chasis suspension and transmission, but its normal for people to think of the engine has the main money sump, the heart of the car

[@Filip70]

Well here in Europe there is a significant price difference,about 15 000 euros. Also in some markets it is much more expensive to register a 4.0. And many people would prefer a nicely speced T over S,they value esthetics and details more than 50 bhp. Understandable in my opinion,718 isnt exactly a straightline monster,its more about corners and finesse, so i can see that someone enjoys T more than base S,after all 300bhp is plenty for real world road use.

[@hornet224]

Ferdinand Porsche, if he were alive, I think would choose this one. Philosophically, it is a true incarnation of the 356A that I had.

[@peterpoppe4855]

there were indeed quite some 4 Cyl that Porsche produced : 356, 550, 914, 944, 924...

[@andibrema]

Mark is right. There's a niche for everything, but that doesn't justify a bad value for most people.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Sales figures for these turkeys show that nobody wants to pay like this for a 4 banger, so I think at some point Porsche will stop making them.

[@WarriorsPhoto]

Yeah and good point. Would you buy this car?

[@doctorsmoothy]

@@WarriorsPhoto To get Porsche's best suspension and transmission in the lightest car they sell for only $9k above base price. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only other way to get that setup is to spend $20k over base for the GTS 4.0. Edit: $20k

[@WarriorsPhoto]

@@doctorsmoothy I don’t know 🤷‍♂️ is what I will admit. Let’s look it up together.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@doctorsmoothy But if the engine is a bit shit, what's the point?

[@_Makanko_]

Obviously Porsche makes good cars, It's just hella expensive.

[@aaronmacy9134]

I love the Interstellar vibe of the cornfield B roll at the start of the drive segment. Car commercial grade. Savage Geese is the one channel where I always remember to max out playback quality at the start of every vid (now that that’s a f***ing thing).

[@nappiechan9208]

Definitely interstellar vibes

[@jameswillard1]

Agree, they do a great job....and especially of making that road look majestic because I frequently drive the same road and it’s actually a shitty road littered with gravel, dirt and stones in all the corners

[@aaronmacy9134]

@@jameswillard1 I’ve thought for a couple years that all SavageGeese is missing is a better backdrop for their vids. I’ve gone as far as to contemplate how much better the scenery would be in every review if they were to do a hostile takeover of TFL’s turf in Denver. Thankfully, SavageGeese seem to have better and better access to that racetrack which is 10/10 more visually appealing than the cornfield access roads or whatever their called. Lol

[@neurokinetik64ES]

That interior is so refreshing after seeing all the crap being peddled these days by most car makers.

[@djsomeguy]

Yup, love my 95B.2 GTS...the absolute sweet spot of Porsche interiors.

[@NICKYMGTV]

Here to watch a video about a car I cant afford...

[@vitaly6312]

That E-4 pay just don’t cut it. But that’s where mustangs and challengers come in 😬

[@youngbrevy]

NICE!

[@daviddavis1322]

Yah but in 10 years you'll be able to afford one with deferred maintenance. Then you will transition into not being able to afford the maintenance.

[@aceofspades6667]

I watch these and enjoy them.. Bought a used ND Miata and have been completely satisfied; no urges to upgrade.

[@bilakh7]

Bro we are the same

[@FragEightyfive]

When I was younger, the numerical advantage was important, but now its not. I'd rather have the older 6 Cyl than a new 4 Cyl. Almost pulled the trigger on a 1st gen Cayman S a few times, but its hard to justify because there's not many tracks or mountain roads within a few hours of where i live.... 99% of mileage would be commuting on boring roads.

[@jaybosher6144]

Treat yo self

[@jeffreysalzman1497]

Just bought a 987.1 and it is awesome even on boring roads. I also prefer the first gen Cayman styling over the 911.

[@TexasRiverRat31254]

@@jeffreysalzman1497 Bought a 987.2 in March, it's great on any road and fantastic on twisties! looks SOOO much better than a 911 and the NA 6 sounds wonderful, love it.

[@az9913]

You can have a blast in a porsche anywhere

[@FragEightyfive]

Nice. I had looked at a couple 911's (993 and 996's) and for the price and what I want the Cayman/Boxter check off more boxes. I don't want a ton of electronics, i want an analog experience.

[@aaronelmquist8607]

"It's not really Porsche's fault." I think that's accurate.

[@ghostridertom]

It is actually a bit VW group fault. Dieselgate unleashed hell on all of the industry and no one acted or lobby against. VW as a main cause BUT also as a most powerfull force should have been more active in stopping the overregulation. Car market is dead for a normal man. I am happy with my Evora and F Lexus but I am with the main street enthusiast in my heart, I am sad... For todays $ I am not going the Porsche way ever as much as I agree that there is no substitute for a Porsche GT or enthusiast oriented product.

[@aaronelmquist8607]

@@ghostridertom yes, I did not think of it that way. These vehicles are too expensive for me for what they are and how I would actually use it. I am probably better off with Mark's approach of getting a Lexus of some kind. I would probably get something in the RC designation vs the LC as I have dropped far too much money on beef and cheddars over the years 😅

[@ghostridertom]

@@aaronelmquist8607 Get slightly used RC F and enjoy it for a decade to come. You can get it for a really nice price and it is a real "F" so all the goodies of a super GT but track capable car (a bit heavy but fun). I am going after final RC F 2022 as it ends here in Europe and it goes out with a blaze of glory (Fuji Edition but not called so in Europe but it is the same specs and colours and so on). Expensive but for me legendary and I am fortunate enough to be able to pay half now and the rest I can finance with ok conditions.

[@Fyxxterzc]

Too much money for not enough fun. I'm with Mark on this.

[@Tential1]

Why not a used car at that point? I'd rather have a used 911 than a brand new boxster t

[@drbobs8267]

For approximately $10k less you can get a base Boxster with 97% of the driving potential and 100% of the driving enjoyment. Get one a year or two old (if you can find one) and save even more.

[@markmiller3279]

Porsche buyers are not price sensitive. If they were, they'd be shopping other brands.

[@rembo183]

@@Tential1 - a clean low mileage Used Porsche Boxster is probably the best choice for budget

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@markmiller3279 LOL, bullshit, sub 200,000k everyone is price sensitive. If you weren't price sensitive and you wanted a decent mid engined sports car, you'd get a McLaren or a Ferrari or something. The fact that these things aren't selling proves that nobody wants these 4 cylinder over priced VAG bean counter designed shitboxes. Even in this price bracket, there are far, far better options. They even talk about this very thing in the video.

[@knick11695]

Regarding pricing debate about "for 80k, might as well get a 911 or GTS 4.0", there's still a massive difference in the prices between the boxster/S/T and the 4.0s and 911s. It's sometimes double that price for a solid 911 in a comparable generation. IMO this car still exists as a lesser-priced version of a Porsche platform priced so much higher, and occupies a solid place in the market, especially in more economically inflated regions.

[@maynardewm]

Way better to just get a 981 at that point. Handling is just about as good, just about as fast or even faster with an ECU tune, it will depreciate far less, and you get the 6 cylinder.

[@nanashiboyz]

@@maynardewm Correct. Just pay the extra 15,000 to get the 718 GTS or, if you cant afford that, get a flat six 981. No point in getting a 4-popper for $78,000.

[@skippynj1979]

My GTS 4.0 order came in 1k more than the dealer S they had sitting in the showroom floor.

[@SharpTurnStudios]

In regards to fuel economy, I'm pretty sure Jason Cammisa had a great little video when the 718s got the flat fours. In real world testing, the Turbo 4 is much less economic compared to the outgoing NA 6, EPA-rated figures be damned!

[@wingedlion17]

agreed. every tubo car ive had sucked fuel economy wise anywhere but the free way. if you just drive around town forget it , get an na 6 or even a v8.

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

Agreed. I picked up a 2018 Fiesta ST. It gets 2-3 miles per gallon less than my old 2009 Kia Optima with an NA 2.4 I4. Still, I don't mind as the FiST is a hell of a lot more fun to drive!

[@thatcopenguy]

There's a rule called "Goodhart's law" that says "when a measure becomes a target it ceases to be good measure" and that is sort of what's going on with the downsized turbo motors, it's designed to do a good job at the EU fuel economy test without the regard for real world mpg.

[@smithiness]

I've had a 2.0 for four years now. It's in the low 20's when I'm flogging it and 31 - 32 when cruising down the highway.

[@SonoCars]

“Unless you’re Nick Murray and Porsche are not reliable.” 😂

[@pumarolz]

Poor man nick has gotten the short end of the stick quite consistently

[@keeleye7225]

You used the wrong your/you're and then unnecessarily ADDED an apostrophe to the plural form of Porsche? Go back to fourth grade.

[@edgesince84]

@@keeleye7225 PREACH

[@SonoCars]

Forgive me for my quick typing mistakes. There is a better way of providing feedback. No need to be an ass.

[@pumarolz]

@@keeleye7225 chill bro

[@effa114]

I’ve been lukewarm on the 4 cyl 718’s until the T. I’d still dearly love the 4.0, but I honestly think the T would be just as satisfying to own for me. They may have made some refinements to the noise since launch, since I think it sounds excellent (albeit not a patch on the old cars). It’s not cheap, but you can skip a lot of the pricy cosmetic options and it’s far cheaper than the GTS in the real world. Arguments about “what’s another 20k once you’re spending 80” just don’t land… it’s still a huge amount more.

[@johnyacoub69]

Exactly; for some people, they'll be stretching their finances to buy, so another 20K is going to be out of the question; it's not a "toy" purchase for every buyer; it wouldn't be, for me either.

[@zdenekk.8564]

I have a T Cayman 6MT on order. Lucky to get the one allocation dealer had available, 4 months wait. Could have picked up a GTS 4.0 from showroom (guy ordered and then backed out). Price difference, $30k and that’s before taxes, insurance, etc. but what really made me choose the T is the combination of rare/unique (maybe 300 in total in US when all said and done) and more I saw on the 4.0 manual more I realized that I could not really explore the power-band on regular roads beyond 2nd gear (and even that is way too long and fast. So, since I want to have fun daily driving a manual, the T is great. Expensive, yes, but over 5 or so years not crazy and I will be able to use four gears getting on the highway instead of 2.

[@effa114]

@@zdenekk.8564 Fully agreed on your thinking and congrats! I feel like glorious as the GTS is, the gearing would render it a constant frustration as you say. You’ll get a lot more joy out of the T (and with the rarity factor, you probably won’t pay much for it).

[@tylerwinzenried6652]

I love that you reviewed a 4 cylinder 718!! Been waiting a long time for this. Also love you guys dropping bombs on Nick Murray ahhaha

[@WynterK]

Man I love these guys. 2 well spoken gentlemen with good arguments. My brain rejoices listening to these guys talk cars. Love it

[@rust3dsteel]

After watching this channel for years, I must say this is one of the best videos from the channel. Excellent work guys. Really enjoyed the discussion since it represents the ongoing back and forth we all tend to have as enthusiasts when it comes to packaging, pricing, and performance.

[@Wallstreetavarice]

I'm with Jack on the interior - it's simple and dated in a good way and thus is relatively future proof. I'm very very tempted to buy a 718 Spyder because of the fact that it is the perfect blend of 90's and early 2000's car design and 2020 refinement and engineering

[@markmiller3279]

I mostly like it, but the rows of identical buttons were a bad idea, even if they are physical. They haven't given this thing a major redo in way too long, and it's starting to be obvious.

[@anticorossa4591]

I bought one this year because I was afraid they would modernize the interior :) I'm not a fan of the new Porsche interiors. Look cheap when the power is off and always loaded with finger prints

[@diego04cr2]

I’ve only recently began watching this channel, and it has become my go to for car content. Absolutely love the format of the videos and both perspectives.

[@gpuhog6208]

Really enjoy this back and forth disagreements. It shows cars carry so many different views and we get to see some of them.

[@granthenneke]

The production quality of this video is amazing! Gets better and better with every new video.

[@MrDavekov]

Y'all are the true heirs to Car Talk. Thanks for doing what you do.

[@stevemartegani]

That music had me expecting Superman to come flying over the cornfields

[@sdlausen1]

Epic freaking intro. The editing, music, everything. Well done!

[@TRSCobra]

Love the discussion. Basically you guys preemptively addressed the points of many viewers but kept it civil and interesting. Keep it up!

[@michaelkopysh1429]

Getns! Long time subscriber, big fan. Some of the best automotive content around. March of 2021 I was in this exact market, this exact price range. And I bought…. *drumroll*… the G29 BMW Z4 M40i. Because I, like the vast majority of shoppers here, am never going to track this car. What I wanted was a top down driving experience that delivers thrills when I want them. Which is largely getting to 62 (100km/h) as fast as possible on country roads, feeling that rush early in the rev range, etc etc. It also corners as well as anyone could want for an on-road experience, and with the excellent e-diff, let’s the rear end break loose just enough for fun. I’m an enthusiast, who fully understands that these cars aren’t going to see a track. If I’m going to at track, I’m buying a used Miata, and kitting it out properly. Just my real world $.02

[@michaelkopysh1429]

Following on… this was the top of my budget range. Would not have made the stretch to the $106 equivalent.

[@deenoc3622]

Excellent channel. Great relationship between Mark and Jack which makes this such a good channel to watch.

[@JohnMarucci]

I was considering the T this past spring but ended up finding an allocation and optioned the base with the Sport Chrono, Torque Vectoring and PASM. The only other options I added was Lane Change Assist and GT Silver. With a slight dealer discount it was just under $70k. I waited 20 years for this and wanted a driver's car and optioning the car this way saved about $10k and I got a driver's car that is everything the T is save the ridiculously expensive wheels and another 10MM lowered. I've put 2,500 miles on the car this summer almost all with the top down and it is total blast and IMO a great value (for a new Porsche) if optioned this way. Having researched this extensively, the T is not the sweet spot, the base is as outlined above or if I wanted to drop $30k more, the GTS with the 4.0L six cylinder.

[@Lenoch_]

If you don’t want a big, honking engine but want the limited-slip, the T is the way to go.

[@jeffsnavely588]

Agreed - base Porsches always represent the best value to me as they have 90% of the driving experience of the higher models at much lower cost. For example, I ordered a new 2013 981 Boxster when they came out with just a few options and I think it was the best 50k you could spend on a car -- it was more than fast enough and I had to reign myself in constantly. A few years later I enjoyed a base 997 C2 -- didn't miss the "S" at all. I will say that I prefer the S in the 986 & 987 but the base ones are great too. For the newer models however (981/991 and newer) - the base are more than enough power/performance for street driving and probably more enjoyable as they can be revved out more. Final counterpoint -- the 981 GT4 was one of the best cars I've ever driven by far!

[@ShaneMorris1986]

Maybe it’s just the mid life crisis talking, but I need this car.

[@naxT890]

Wait for new Lotus ?

[@mimidotcat]

@@naxT890 no?

[@jameshumphrey3425]

@@mimidotcat maybe?

[@bcc5701]

@@mimidotcat why not?

[@JacesOwnWorld]

@@naxT890 as great as Lotus is, the interior of a Lotus is so bare bones. It’s not something you would enjoy driving all day. The comfort of the Porsche Boxster is a major reason as why people get them.

[@Nate-zq8re]

I think something the 4cyl 718s have as an advantage is slightly better street usability over the previous 981 generation. despite the deadness at lower rpms, max torque is more easily accessible even with the longer gears. My 981 is always begging to be driven above 50mph, which isnt always legally ideal. That said I would never trade usable torque for the sound of the NA flat 6.

[@LS3ftw15]

The tall gearing in the 981 is a major bummer for me. It’s otherwise the perfect Boxster, IMO. I’ll take the N/A six over the turbo four every single time.

[@1PorscheCaymanS]

In 2013, I bought a CPO 991 911S (10,000 miles) for $92K (MSRP was $128K). My 911 has over 80,000 miles on it today and I may never sell it. This review explains both why I purchased that car and why I purchased the way I did. Nice review that encapsulates the whole Porsche debate that is reflected in the review and in the comments. As a note for the folks watching this video...consider a 991...it's a better car than the Boxster.

[@InsidePhil]

The editing and shot selection is awesome

[@colin-nekritz]

In a fight between Mark and Jack, my money is on Jack.

[@DavidRamseyIII]

I wager three-hundred quatloos on the newcomer

[@abetts1971s1]

" silverback Jack!"😂👍👍

[@kevind4061]

^Probably the way Mark would like it which makes him a wildcard.

[@dougrobinson8602]

@@DavidRamseyIII 200 quatloos says they're untrainable!

[@markmiller3279]

He's got about 15 years and several inches. It's a pretty safe bet.

[@brandobatel]

I just picked up a T! Its a beautiful car. I traded my 2022 s3 for it and while the tech was a downgrade, the driving feel cant wipe a smile off my face. The power is great. I can kick the rear end out whenever i want, and from 2-6k rpm this thin is legendary. Its the perfect daily driver because it can be tame. If you want a track car, get a gts #saveTheManuals

[@ForgetfulFoot]

Epic beginning montage dude. Loved it!

[@simonjarratt]

I think they key point of this debate was in the last 2 minutes. ‘Allocation’. In the UK, it is essentially impossible to buy a Spyder or a GT4 new. I have offered crazy money to order a Spyder and there is no amount I can pay to get one new. My local Porsche dealer (which is one of the largest in the UK) gets an allocation of TWO of each, per YEAR! I have a T on order which, all in, will cost me under £60k (UK) with a handsome bundle of desirable extras. However, most importantly, I will get it in March and that (semi-conductor issue permitting) is more or less guaranteed. If however, I order a GTS, I’m now being quoted March 2023 at the very earliest. That’s a minimum year and half wait! Yes, given the choice, of course I would have the GTS but not for that wait and especially not for the hike in cost. Spyder/GT4’s on the second hand market are running at £15-20k over list for a 2 year old car over here. Even the T & GTS’s are selling over list if you can even find one as there are very few for sale. It’s a crazy world right now. There has never been a batter time to be trading in a used prestige car. Given that T is literally a GTS but with a smaller engine with 90% of the driving pleasure, a new T is looking like an absolute bargain right now. I’d pay $78k (US) for that. That is my humble opinion anyway! Great vid, thank you.

[@762x69]

When it comes to this platform it's gts 4.0 or bust for me. All the other trims, don't have something that screams special for me at around 80 to 100k

[@mkkoper]

Same for me. 718 should only come with B6 4.0. For me the lower trim means Mazda MX-5

[@ervin7178]

Glad I’m not the only one who busts for the 4.0

[@markmiller3279]

Well, as Jack notes, there are markets where the six would cost a fortune in taxes based on displacement. In the US this car doesn't make a lot of sense, except to people who are stretching to get any Porsche.

[@Gentleman...Driver]

@@markmiller3279 If you want to get any Porsche the base model will do for 25k less. This thing is pretty special underneath. Its not for everybody. I would also prefer the 4.0.

[@Filipolis]

@@mkkoper Where I live in Europe you would pay €7000 for registration on the flat six versions and another €2500 in yearly taxes. That while it's only €1000 registration and €500 yearly for the base engine variants. Starting price aside, the running costs put those versions in completely different price categories. You can more or less assume that €1=$1

[@benoit.b9337]

It's a really good bit expensive option in a class of vehicles that I have no interest in but its Savagegeese so I have to watch! 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@dontreadthis908]

Great review! I had the pleasure of putting 500 miles on a 718 Boxter T over the weekend and was amazed at the build quality. It had 30,000 rental miles on it and was perfectly quiet with no squeaks or rattles! My next sports car will no doubt be a 718 GTS or Spyder

[@clu4u]

Nice review bruh, my 981 Spyder was $89.5K, and carfax has 15 for sale $99k- $112k. My sticker was $109k. Only less than 1,000 are available in the USA.

[@pvtcmyers87]

Friggen love the conversation that comes from you guys when you disagree. Awesome job Jack and Mark keep up the awesome work!!

[@andreipiv]

this car at 60k is killer, 70-80? that's crazy

[@hankd9675]

Would you feel the same way if the engine was a 2.7 flat six producing the same horsepower and torque vs the flat 4?

[@andreipiv]

@@hankd9675 honestly it's hard to say without driving it. I would like to think that but the 4 banger has advantages as well.

[@johnyacoub69]

@@hankd9675 Except it wouldn't - a 2.7 NA 6 would produce less power and a lot less torque - as it did.

[@hankd9675]

​@@johnyacoub69 I know the power stats of the old engine. My question was hypothetical. "Would you feel the same way IF......". The point I was making is many feel any 4 banger is inferior to a 6 no matter the engineering, etc. If Porsche modified 2.7 6 (perhaps a small turbo) to produce the same power and torque as the 2.0 four, I believe there would not be the same resistance to the cost of the 718.

[@tttpods]

@@hankd9675 > any 4 banger is inferior to a 6 no matter the engineering Exactly this!

[@fleetleader1013]

Just wanted to say I love the channel please keep it up. Love the work.

[@Xemnas103]

I wasn't expecting this kind of music for the intro but I'm loving it anyway, definitely adding it to my playlist on Spotify.

[@legostarwarsrulez]

I like that it’s usable street power combined with crazy handling. I can take that amazing chassis and suspension engineering and milk every last drop out of it and shift crazy and lay into that power and just tear around back roads faster than anything else in its price range.

[@joseacuna3239]

It’s too much money for a back road car

[@legostarwarsrulez]

@@joseacuna3239 says who? Thats a very subjective opinion. If someone values handling and driving feel above raw power, there isn't a single other car on the market that can match or best it for the money. So by that metric it isn't too much money at all, if anything it's a bargain.

[@Swoerm]

@@joseacuna3239 Thats why I drive my T as a daily ;)

[@123456789554332]

@@joseacuna3239 That's pure subjectiveness. Some dude making 140K can easily justify it. Shit we Jeep Wranglers on the top trim are over $60,000 now. $70,000-$80,000 for this isn't a lot when you compare the cost of cars today. It might be too much for YOU. But to someone else it's not. This is a car made for someone whose dream is to own a Porsche. For them it's everything they would want.

[@piyushbansal4433]

What an amazing review of this car. Thank you Jack for not shying away from making fact-based good arguments against price. In my opinion, the price is totally justified. Nobody in the world delivers such a car for less, do they? The refinement, the engineering, the driving experience, the reliability, the way this car holds it's value, the exotic looks, the prestige of owning this brand - I am nothing but totally convinced this is a great and top of the line product that one could get for their money. People asked for a great car, and Porsche delivered. They can't sell something for 50k that should be 80k, as Mark wants it. That would be saying why Ferraris or Lambos are close to 300-400k, they should be 100ks. No, good products/things come at a price, and this is a totally fair price. Cheap products don't necessarily mean value products and expensive products don't necessarily mean lack of value, I wish every body understood that. While there are cheaper cars like Mazda Miata ND2 and Toyota Supra, they don't nearly have the same goods to offer as this car. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try to rate these cars unbiased on the areas of this Boxster T I've mentioned above. I am sure you will see other cars don't even give this Boxster T a run for it's money. No wonder why Mark agrees to pick this one up instead of a soulful V8 motor car, Corvette C8. If a meat lover chooses to grab a vegetarian meal, you know the vegetarian meal must be wickedly good!

[@biffy7]

An amazing, and honest review. You two nailed the exact decision tree all of us who can easily afford a Miata, but could do a Porsche on a stretch, are making. Also, your audio and video production production quality is broadcast level.

[@derbender9264]

I just was at Bilster Berg, it’s a small but good Racetrack in Germany, we drove a 981 GTS and a 4.0 GTS, it took a while before we caught the T, after my tires have been warm the T stayed all the time at the 4.0 backend. The T, in the almost same spec, is around 20.000€ cheaper than our 4.0 You have to experience it to appreciate it

[@realbigtuna667]

I agree with Mark on this one, at least for the US use case. I do like the minimalist interior though. Mark, you could have argued the depreciation as well. If you can spend $80k, chances are you can afford another $20k for a GTS 4.0. The GTS 4.0 will depreciate less, and will be easier to sell later as well. So, as long as you can put the money down, cost of ownership on the GTS 4.0 will probably be less than the Boxter T. Only reason I would buy this over an Evora GT would be if I absolutely needed to have a drop top.

[@TheBucketOfTruth]

Emira could be a good rival here too

[@colin5577]

Great review. As my first step back on the Porsche ladder after a long absence, the 718 T ticks all the boxes. I'll track it and tour it and have a 6 cylinder car to look forward to afterwards when a change is needed. The price IS punchy, but all the standard sporty chassis bits, the retro interior packs, fabric door pulls and a few extra alcantara bits make it like a poor man's GT4... in a good way. For a relatively poor man like me, anyway. For no good reason, I'm a bit more excited about getting a T than a standard car. Or even a basic S. Porsche sees guys like me coming. I know.

[@autocrosseverything]

I'm picking up a 986 Boxster this week and I'm so excited.

[@Closertotruth2]

As a guy that currently owns several Porsches and loved and owned a Miata, I agree with Jack on this. His take is right on. I loved my Miata and plan to buy another soon. But if you can afford it there is nothing like Porsche.

[@therealboofighter]

1:50 I understand what you are saying and agree with the sentiment, the 1990 Bonniville SSEi disagrees.

[@glennhavinoviski8128]

The main reason I got the 718 Boxster S (now 6 years old, but the exact same car is sold today) was, compared with the base 2.0, much more torque at a lower RPM (1700-up) and power anytime you want it. Disconnecting the sound symposer helped give the 4 a better sound in Sport mode - though as I understand all 718s now come with sport exhaust standard.

[@dsc5957]

Great video. The passion and knowledge is so clear

[@chalkywhite7999]

Fantastic review guys. Agree with everything in principal but we all have our list of priorities. Having owned a naturally aspirated Boxster S (987) in the past and enjoyed it and a couple of Golf Rs for practicality since it was time to enjoy an open top sports car again. The choice boiled down to 2 completely different cars. A 718 or an ND MX5. Wanted something with lowish miles and not more than 3 - 4 years old since i began spending money on the 987 before I sold it. Just wanted to offer that apart from the obvious, other factors came into play. Both IMO are stunning looking cars. Loved the MX5 for looks, amazing value, the excellent simple but effective soft roof, the fun, the colours, esp soul red. Couldn't commit mainly because of the the very limited boot space (for touring Europe) and the unsupportive seats (Recaro option in UK only available on the 2016 Recaro edition and the bright orange 2019 Limited 30th Anniversary - a step too far!). Bought a 718T on the basis of sublime performance/handling, exquisite looks, extra boot practicality, super comfortable seats with Sportex (leather too cold in a soft top in winter and too hot in the summer, slippery when cornering and can sag when old) and I have to admit, the badge, but probably more importantly the engineering and the hope of a reasonable resale value 🤷🏼‍♂. So glad I made the choice. Utterly brilliant fun even without the 6 pot soundtrack.

[@HappyCarReviews]

For that price, I would rather buy the new Lexus IS500 with the naturally aspirated 5.0 Liter V8, IF I COULD AFFORD IT!

[@JD-ze2fy]

“ reliable...unless you’re Nick Murray”. ROFLMAO. So true... Mark kept yammering about the price but your not buying a GTS 4.0 for 80k...end of discussion. Definitely 100k or more, if you want paint and other extras. GT4 and Spyder obviously even more. Porsches seem expensive until you start shopping and can’t find anything you like as much for the same money. Then your perspective changes pretty quickly. Jack was right on with the value proposition. Nothing twice the price is twice as good. Value is very nonlinear. Not uncommon to pay 50% more for something that is 10-20% better. That’s just how it works on almost everything. In the end, if you want it, you pay it. Never going the win the “ value” argument. Overall, nice, entertaining review.

[@j.3854]

Great points, a Spyder is likely $120k for most, GTS 4.0 $100k. This car, $80k. If you’re talking bare spec, you’re at $100k/$85k/$70k. I love the Boxster/Cayman T’s. Well worth it. Could also get a base car for $60k if saving $10 grand is your goal.

[@SilverScarletSpider]

15:47 This C8 corvette discussion was hilarious 😂

[@patrickspain9167]

What the T needed here was a N/A 3 liter 6. Something you could push hard all the time with the great T bits and bobs, and the classic sound.

[@nathanthomas4635]

i’m with jack on this one. the level of engineering and driver’s enjoyablilty you can get out of this car cannot be beat for the price. obviously i still can’t afford anything close to this price lol

[@johntechwriter]

Today, this very day, iI enjoyed an extended dice with a well- driven air-cooled 911 on legendary Hwy 9, south of San Fran toward Santa Cruz. It was a really fun touch-and-go contest, with my ND2 MX-5 crawling up his butt in the twisties, and his flat six reeling me in on the straights, Nobody got stupid, everybody had fun. As we parted ways, we sensed our kinship: each of us doing our best to live up to the passion of the engineers who devoted their careers to building these amazing cars.

[@jongib4286]

Great analysis as always guys! Arguably, everyone knows the Cayman & boxster is/could be better than the 911 This model is too pricey tho I agree

[@2Aqua1]

Always appreciate the tech opinions of these guys!! 👋🏻

[@mikuelable]

Apart from the awesome reviews yall make we love the agreement

[@thielepr]

“So do I” made my night

[@StephenRichardsX]

The question of whether or not the experience is 2-3x better is a silly one. The better question is whether or not it’s worth a $40k delta for the 15-20% bump in dynamics that gets you near perfection, along with a performance floor that’s higher than a less expensive vehicle’s ceiling.

[@joseacuna3239]

Having the potential and dynamics I’d rather buy the 4.0 and really use the advantage

[@johnyacoub69]

@@joseacuna3239 if you can really, comfortably afford the extra $20K, then you should probably go 4.0; I love the T, but I think anyone arguing that it's the best regardless of price is simply disingenuous.

[@K1dPhresh1]

Videos are awesome as always but the music was freaking epic! I kept waiting for the Avengers to show up!

[@stotka]

Thumbs up for the Snake Eater song! Cant get enough of the Porsche content. Keep up the good work!

[@ormand3000]

Solution: Buy a CPO 981s+ with theoretically better warranty, engaging flat 6 and arguably better looks 🤷‍♂️

[@1morejohnson]

I'm very curious as to how sports cars in the US market will react to a successful Lotus Emira launch. That price point is astounding for a Lotus.

[@bokiNYC]

They'll price it at around $80k and dealers will put a $20k markup and price it out of reach for most of us.

[@markmiller3279]

A successful anything in the US would be a novelty for Lotus. I wish them well, but I can't see it being more than a modest seller.

[@mikezerker6925]

Love the debate! Great video as always!

[@0728451031548270jeff]

I have to say I own a '17 Cayman S and simply love the car. I do not understand the noise comments from everyone. I find it very satisfying and a buddy of mine just got a GTS, the noise differential is nonexistent to me, we drove with the top up and down! Regardless of price, Porsche's are GREAT cars and I think the finest cars I've ever driven and I owned quite few. Wonderful content in your videos!

[@bobbykhan5787]

I currently have a 718 Cayman T, and I had the base model before (between leases). I had this whole debate in my head too, going for a GTS 4.0 was too much of a stretch for me and at that point I felt why don't I just get a base 911 (which has way better lease rates relative to MSRP vs 718 models). But then it didn't have a manual and was still more than I could afford, also not as precise or strictly engaging. I do like this 718 T a lot and agree with Jack's final thoughts. But I think for road use and little or no track time, the base model is best for the money (of the 718 lineup). I appreciate the tightening up of everything with the T vs base trim but you really don't need any of it for the road, you save like 10-15k, get a more comfortable daily driver in the process that's still got 90% of the T's engagement.

[@msmoniz]

I'm with Mark on this. For fun engaging daily driving, despite how much "better" the 718 is, I'll take the Miata and pocket the savings and maybe do a few upgrades and still have a sizeable amount of $ pocketed.Considering vast majority of drivers won't or can even drive up to 1/2 the 718's capabilities, buying it is more a financial flex than buying it cause it's a better fun car than the Miata.

[@meekrab9027]

The other thing is... when I went and sat in a new ND I thought it was really nice for 30k. When you get into a Boxster T you think jeez this is all you get for 80k?

[@Matt-gn7uz]

Really considering purchasing one of these, can't wait to hear your thoughts.

[@jdeezy63]

The background music is EPIC

[@CarsMeetsBikes]

I would take the 80K and try to get a second hand Boxster S w/ 6 speed and 6 cyl, and probably still have some money left over. It's not as "special" as the T but 6 > 4

[@dinosoarskill17]

I grew up on 4cyl, and just started owning straight 6's. never owned a v8, but even i know there's no replacement for displacement.

[@brulaapgaapmeester8234]

Yes there is, it is called a 'turbo', or, 'high rpm'.

[@dinosoarskill17]

@@henrym5889 Yea, I get that turbo's will make a lot more power, I own a straight 6 twin turbo, but the low end capability still isn't the same the higher displacement you go.

[@dinosoarskill17]

@@henrym5889 which is exactly why we've seen turbo's become so popular in cars now, because of the efficiency. they're great, i love them and they're so much fun. but i've yet to drive any turbo car with low end tuning, that's just not generally what they're tuned toward. maybe diesels are, but i don't think i've ever driven one. those are generally larger displacement as well (here in the US)

[@mechanics718]

My garage is a ND2 Miata Club MT with Brembo/BBS package and a 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK. I previously owned a 981 Cayman S PDK. I agree with Mark that the ND2 does a lot of what the 718 4 cylinder does at a fraction of the cost. 718 base/T/S didn't make sense for me as it is too similar to the ND2 especially with MT. Coming from a 981 I knew I wanted the 6-cylinder 718. 4.0L in the 718 is an amazing engine. 718 GTS also comes with torque vectoring with mechanical limited slip, PASM, sports exhaust, sports chrono as standard. All these contribute to making the 718 GTS 4.0 a very different car from the ND2. Enough of a performance difference to me to justify having both. I say ND2 with MT is more fun to drive in most cases than 718 PDK. Never driven MT in a 718 so I can't give a direct comparison.

[@wingedlion17]

Great garage! I've driven both the 981 and 718 manual. Both have great shifters but kind of hard clutches. Not great for traffic but fun on a back road. The Miata's clutch and shifter are better tho. Light, slick, short throw, its better than Porsche's in my view. I think if companies wanted to really save manuals they would make their clutches and shifters like the Miata, so easy and slick to use that you can daily it fine and choosing it over an auto is no big deal.

[@kingofascension2026]

The opening sounded like a Transformers score. Loved it

[@s.sviatoslav]

The rule to me is clean: stick with miata until you can afford the flat-six :)

[@alexnutcasio936]

Bingo, what’s the point of the Porsche?

[@SicSemperBeats]

I think the cabin looks better in any color outside of black imo. Even shitty beige. The shapes in their just look ass and kinda cheap with black but the other colors really bring out the shapes and the metal touches.

[@johntechwriter]

In other words, it is butt ugly.

[@bella_testastretta]

this is one of the best episodes

[@jeffstecklare7141]

Great video, as usual @savagegeese. At around 15:00 Jack brings up that Mark has a Klipsch setup, now I've gotta know what set of Klipsch that Mark is running? I've got a vintage pair of Heresy II's with some Crites updates. I'm picturing Mark with some Heresy IV's in Walnut, but that's just a guess.