Porsche 944 - Mass-Air-Flow (MAF) Conversion Kit Installation & Review

[@guyfaux5010]

OUTSTANDING! So much better than the typical "seat of the pants" review you get from other YT vids. Actual before and after DATA. Lindsey should link this video to their website. Keep up the great work on your car and vids.

[@NC944er]

Thanks man! Everyone can thank you for pushing me over the fence on the Dyno testing. 😂 I’m glad to have done it though, as it’s nice to have confirmation of the results.

[@guyfaux5010]

@@NC944er Glad to give you that nudge. Everyone here thanks YOU for following through.

[@IsraelSocial]

I saw a 944 abandoned because the maf! Im going to buy it and im going to buy this maf, excelent solution and thanks for the tutorial

[@tedtakesitapart]

Super informative video! This has to be the most pristine 944 I’ve ever seen, keep up the great work!

[@NC944er]

Thanks Ted! It’s a decent looker after 3 years of restoration. 😂 The best part is that it’s not a low mileage car, so I don’t feel guilty about getting it out of the garage on a regular basis.

[@tedtakesitapart]

@@NC944er I picked up an S2 recently with similar mileage, it’s robust in the right places but it needs a lot of TLC. So far the minor restoration work I have done has been a blast, your videos have a made a lot of it easier haha. They are such great cars and it’s awesome that they still have so much aftermarket and factory support

[@NC944er]

@@tedtakesitapart Sweet! The S2 is really “the” 944 to have I think. While they are super fun to drive, I’ve also enjoyed working on the car even more so. Glad the content has been helpful! 👍🏼

[@doubled334]

Just got my 944 NA and I spent the last couple of months watching and rewatching your videos. Top notch and I can't thank you enough.

[@NC944er]

Nice! Lots of fun to be had, congrats on the acquisition! 👍🏼

[@adityaconnelley6321]

Thanks so much for doing the before and after on the dyno! I've been waiting for this video a while now to see if the MAF is worth it, and to see some real data that's not from Lindsey is encouraging : )

[@NC944er]

Yeah, I think I can probably get more power out of it by going a little leaner to get closer to the 14.7 ratio mark. The problem was the initial throttle hesitation, although it seems to be evening out the more I drive the car, so I may play with the settings a bit more.

[@webbracer5]

Thank you for your in-depth review of the MAF conversion. Your attention to detail and excellent narration over what you’re doing makes your channel easily the best NA 944 channel I’ve ever seen. I have an 88 and have been considering doing this for a long time now… I think I might pull the trigger soon!

[@NC944er]

Thanks Darren, I’m glad you’re finding the information useful! When I was shaping a theme for the channel, I thought about all the things from other DIY videos that I would typically skip over while watching, like excessive comedic elements, idle time, irrelevant details, etc… and worked to remove most of it from mine. So you’re left with the chunks of helpful information, which is really all you need when you’re trying to fix something, but it’s still entertaining to watch if the video/lighting quality is good. Let me know how your install goes if you end up trying the MAF kit. 👍

[@RS4KING]

Dude, you're awesome. I don't even own a 944 yet (in communication and buying an 86' NA this week) but I can't stop watching your videos and I'm learning so much. I'm not too mechanically incline, but your videos give me the encouragement to want to do this work myself. I read about some of these upgrades and I was like "huh" but now I understand. Thanks! 100% subscribed!

[@NC944er]

Thanks man! It’s definitely a fun and addictive hobby. 😂 The community is really supportive and always welcoming to new 944 owners. A lot of the remaining example cars out there are on the fence for value in justifying additional investment to restore them to their former glory, so DIY maintenance makes the most sense for a lot of people. I hope the sale works out for you and let me know if you need any help. 👍🏼

[@roberthaviar8243]

Thank you for an in-depth high quality video. I especially appreciated the dyno comparison. Your engine bay is like it came from the assembly line. One of the cleanest 944's I have ever seen!

[@NC944er]

Thanks Robert! Happy to share the experience… the Dyno testing did seem appropriate to assess the true results of the mod. The engine bay now looks better than the exterior of the car, which is the opposite for most 944s, so it’s pretty fun to see peoples reactions when I pop the hood. 😂

[@roberthaviar8243]

@@NC944er I have long ways to go with mine. Originally I wanted to LS swap it, but now I have a second 1987 944 engine in good running condition on a crate. Nevertheless the old damaged engine has to come out, so there is my chance to make the engine bay perfect. Thank you for the inspiration!🌞

[@NC944er]

@@roberthaviar8243 Oh man, that’s awesome! And it should be a lot easier that way. If I ever pick up another one, my preference would be to pull the engine and perform a complete reseal/rebuild on it… less chasing of issues that way. LS swap would be fun and ridiculously fast, but it would lose some of its charm and nostalgia in keeping it factory.

[@roberthaviar8243]

@@NC944er I agree, classic sports car as oppose a muscle car. Although I have seen some meticulous LS 3 conversions which turned out beautiful. Still keeping it's 50/50 weight distribution,amazing cornering and nimbleness while having amazing power and torque at your disposal. Surely tempting... Talking rebuilding the stock N/A 944 to the best possible performance. Some people were getting healthy 210 HP using every possible upgrade in the book. Any experience with different pistons, camshafts, springs?

[@NC944er]

@@roberthaviar8243 Most of my early efforts were spent keeping the car roadworthy, so not a lot of performance mods under way. I did install the 951 valve springs, slightly higher spring rate for reduced float at higher RPMs, but I mainly went that route because they were less than half the cost of the NA springs. 😂

[@TheTr0uble]

ALWAYS look forward to your videos, I just finished installing a SpeedForceRacing Supercharger Kit and it included a SplitSec Mass air flow conversion very similar to the Lindsay Racing setup, But I had no idea about that fuel mixture plug on the DME… I’ll get my 944 on a Dyno and let you know my results, From 158HP I’m hoping to see maybe 200 to 235HP at the wheels….👍👍👍

[@NC944er]

Wow, very cool! It’s great that there are a number of solutions and support for these cars, given they’re 35-40 years old at this point. Would love to see the results! I guess the FQS was originally set at the factory based upon the intended country of delivery, given variations in fuel quality being produced globally, and it even included some ignition timing adjustments.

[@tims_4x4_garage]

Please post some videos! That kit costs more than I paid for my car but sounds like a lot of fun

[@TheTr0uble]

I most certainly will Rockcrawling Dude!!!!! I’m ALSO subscribed to your channel as well, Yeah installation was pretty straight forward, I wanted something different from a Turbo model so the Supercharger Kit Stage 2 included EVERYTHING even the factory intercooler from a stock 944 Turbo!!!! I’m anxious to feel the TRUE results….👍👍👍

[@NC944er]

@@TheTr0uble Stage 2 is definitely the way to go, that thing looks pretty sick man… also exceeds the price I originally paid for my car. 😂

[@tims_4x4_garage]

I’ve been waiting for this video for a while. Thank you

[@NC944er]

Yeah man! It took a little while waiting on the Dyno appointments, I didn’t anticipate them being so backed up. 😂 But it made sense to try and do it the right way with some proper testing.

[@tims_4x4_garage]

@@NC944er LR couldn’t have done it better themselves. You really did a fantastic job. This looks like a no brainer for someone with an 88 car. A handful of extra HP and better response sounds great. I have an 87 car with a 24 pin so I have quite a bit of additional cost sourcing a DME or sending mine to F9T

[@NC944er]

@@tims_4x4_garage Thanks dude! LR will add the extra 4 pins to your existing DME for $50, plus shipping I’m assuming, which seems reasonable. But to your point, if you’re considering the F9T sport DME, it’s some money you could put towards that instead.

[@notnilc20]

You could eat off that engine bay its so clean. I'm doing a maf conversion on my turbo as we speak, so this video helped me out mainly with the dme removal and chip changing process. I was nervous about it, but after this video, I have a new confidence. Thanks again for your well made videos!

[@NC944er]

Thanks man, that’s awesome! Glad you found it helpful. Let me know what you think of the kit once you’ve got it up and running. 👍🏼

[@pkt1213]

Great video.

[@davidraeside]

Great review, thanks for posting this... I've been wondering about this product. Any change in fuel economy noted?

[@NC944er]

Yes, but only anecdotally… because the throttle response is so much more enjoyable, I find myself in a constant state of wide open throttle. 🤣

[@diyman25]

Very informative review I am looking to do this type conversion in my Porsche 944 S2

[@NC944er]

That would be cool, unfortunately there is no kit available for the 16v cars that I’m aware of.

[@multipurposepaperbox]

I suggest you look into the 4 degree offset cam key, to bring the powerband down. It makes the car a lot more peppy.

[@NC944er]

Yeah, I was very close to ordering one of those the last time I had the cam gear off. Then I saw someone claiming their key sheared off while driving the car and it spun the cam gear, so I paused and decided not to at the time. Although I presume that instance involved improper installation and the guys at 928 Motorsports haven’t had any reported failures/complaints (according to them). It seems like a good mod though if you do a fair amount of city driving.

[@user-qo6lk5ec9f]

Great review and scientific writeup. I'd be interested to see if an aftermarket fuel delivery system like Microsquirt could get even more gains. Anyway - great vid, thanks for putting this up.

[@spdygon2766]

Excellent…good to know

[@drblast]

What an informative video, thanks!

[@Boom10ful]

Thanks for the video! I would definitely upgrade from the ancient AFM, but no one makes a MAF for a 16V engine 😞

[@NC944er]

Yeah, I know Rogue Tuning was working on a 16v kit like 10 years ago, but got out of the game before finishing it.

[@ronr6450]

Gotta say, your style and voice are sooooo similar to "superfastmatt", another automotive-based channel. When I first heard you, I thought it was his second "secret" channel. You both do excellent work!

[@NC944er]

That’s funny! I do see the similarities in presentation, but no relation. 😂

[@devildog_iii3492]

Nice! Got mine done last month, still have to mess w the fuel settings. But, my rear balance shaft seal went so she’s apart again..

[@NC944er]

Coincidentally, mine is apart now for the same reason. 😂 Well, the lower balance shaft housing seal failed, but I’m replacing all the seals on the upper and lower assemblies. The good news is after that, I’ll have replaced every oil seal on the engine with the exception of the rear main seal. 👍🏼

[@devildog_iii3492]

@@NC944er I got lucky, my upper seal only haha. But doing Venturi delete and unscrewing my vacuum lines from the previous owner.. gonna wait til winter and swap in my manual rack and do front seals with belts and cam tower

[@NC944er]

@@devildog_iii3492 Nice man, sounds like she’ll be in really great shape at that point! I RTVed my upper rear BS seal early on… which bought me about 2 years before the lower one gave way.

[@devildog_iii3492]

@@NC944er yea I FIPGd the upper just in case

[@trefoil3000]

Awesome video was waiting for someone to make one and who better than the best 944 channel on KZbin! I really want this kit but damn it’s expensive, would you say it’s worth the money in your own personal opinion?

[@NC944er]

Thanks man! I agree the price point is a little high. I think it would be a good value closer to $500, and I’m not sure why it went up $50 over the past couple years, probably because of the redesigned intake tube. I will say the aluminum tube has a great look and feel to it. It’s well manufactured and the appearance is much improved over the previous plastic ones. What can’t really be measured is how much more fun it makes the car to drive. If I think about switching back to an AFM, I definitely don’t feel excited about the idea. 😂 The car feels so much more choked and lethargic coming into the throttle with the factory AFM. So I think it ultimately depends on how often you’re able to drive your car to justify the cost and take advantage of the enjoyment factor. If you get your car out weekly or monthly at least, it’s probably worth it. I’ll also say that while the novelty may wear off, I’m currently looking for excuses to drive the car more often now because of the MAF being installed.

[@trefoil3000]

@@NC944er she’s my daily. I think it’s probably going to be next in-line but I’m cashed out on Porsche parts right now. Just spent $700 on a euro bumper and had to buy a whole new set of tires literally a week later 😓

[@geoffstandee]

YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!

[@NC944er]

LOL! Hopefully made your Saturday. 😂

[@geoffstandee]

@@NC944er Definitely did. Thanks again for making such well crafted videos!

[@Christian_Efpunkt]

Very very good video. Thank you very much!

[@latentwagen8644]

Another great video! Love the presentation and image quality. Something to note, however... it does not take the AFM / barn door 3 or 4 seconds to open up. Maybe you meant tenths :)

[@NC944er]

Thanks! Yes, 3-4 seconds is an exaggeration of the actual time, but it’s so restrictive by comparison, that it feels like 5 minutes. 😂 I found this video to be enlightening as it shows the correlation between the throttle body and the AFM movement - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnPTZ6uvnJmHesk In actuality, it opens pretty quickly… it’s just that it’s mostly closed at low RPM, which is why the throttle response is improved with the MAF while not really adding a ton of power at the end of the day.

[@AlanShirtsink]

Great instructions

[@donlemme898]

Excellent content

[@SAMMYJR00777]

dude master work...

[@bobsamuels8570]

Thank You!

[@eliaszafrani]

Hi sir. I have seen a lot of your 944 videos. I have a 86 944 Turbo of my own since 1989. I'm a mechanic myself and i have been the only one touching this car ever. What makes me extremely curious is how is your 944 in such a pristine condition? It is impossible to have it like that unless that car went through a complete meticulous restoration. There is no other way to have it like that perfect after almost 40 years. Keep it like that😊

[@NC944er]

Yes sir, your suspicions are correct! I’ve been extensively restoring the car for the past four years, replacing much of the hardware, cleaning the engine bay, and trying to bring the car back to its original condition. The amount of money I’ve spent on new parts probably exceeds the vehicle’s value at this point. I’m glad you have enjoyed the channel so far. 👍🏼

[@eliaszafrani]

@NC944er Well, let me tell you that you have done a remarkable job restoring it. I tend to look into details, and I see yours impecable. I wish I could have mine like that. But I don't think I will since I know the incredible amount of time, which is more valuable than the money you have put into that car. Mine is very well maintained and kept. But not as a concourse example like yours.

[@eliaszafrani]

@NC944er Also wanted to ask you, been the 944 turbo a more desirable model and easy to bost more power, why did you choose the 944 N/A? Certainly, the turbo is more complex and difficult to work with, but i have seen you have the ability to fix it anyway. Regards

[@NC944er]

@@eliaszafrani Price point and reliability considerations played a small part in that decision, but more so that the NA is very nostalgic to a period in my youth. I think most people prefer the sleeker front bumper cover on the Turbo, but I actually like the protruding front bumper on the NA, with its goofy bumper pads. 😂

[@george-a.m.75]

Great video,thanks for that! But one thing: the antistatic band should not be connected to the part you're working on, but rather to a good grounded point (metal, heating radiator or so), cause if you had been loaded antistatic, you might have destroyed the DME by close contact by the bracelet, that's just IMHO.

[@NC944er]

Thanks for the tip! I was just following the instructions from the supplier and that’s how they had it set up, but what you’re saying makes sense. Cheers!

[@johnmcdonnell81]

Excellent 👍

[@emiliomauleon3846]

i thought you had a trailer queen, but glad to see your driving it. I have an 84 and what would be required to use an 88 DME ?

[@NC944er]

Ha! Nah, I don’t even own a trailer. 😂 Actually, the car just passed 171k miles on the odometer, but I don’t get to drive it as much as I’d like to. For your ‘84, you’d just need to get your hands on an ‘88 DME (or late through ‘87 and add the extra pins), outside that they are plug and play, the connectors are the same. The late DME isn’t compatible with the early AFM, so you’d need earthed the MAF kit or a later AFM for the late DME to work. No other parts or wiring changes required.

[@emiliomauleon3846]

thank you. please come out with more things

[@k_clack]

I would love to install this as a replacement for the Bosch AFM in my Vanagon 2.1 Digifant system. I have a tunable EPROM. I would imagine that I would need to convert the timing and fuel maps to read the voltages from the MAF instead of the old voltages from the stock Bosch AFM. Could you confirm the voltage outputs from the Hotwire MAF?

[@NC944er]

Yes, I agree that a new fuel map would be needed for that application, although not my area of expertise.

[@k_clack]

@@NC944er Do you know if this MAF outputs a 0-5v signal. I would imagine so, since the original Bosch AFM did.

[@DavidParker-gw3zx]

What size inline fuse did you use? The screen shot shows 30A but that seems too high.

[@NC944er]

@@DavidParker-gw3zx Yeah, most MAF sensors use less that 2.5 amps, so I went with a 5A fuse. Probably don’t need one, but couldn’t hurt to protect it. No issues so far with surges or blown fuse at that location.

[@TakeFlightGarage]

NC, I was hoping you’d be able to help me understand exactly HOW the dme is adjusting fuel percentage based on FQS selection. For example +3% fuel, is that adding +3% to the injector duty cycle? Ie the injector stays open 3% longer?

[@NC944er]

Hey man! I don’t have much firsthand experience with tuning outside of plug-and-play solutions, so I’m probably not the best person to ask, but the Rogue Tuning website has some interesting details about the setup (link below). The guy who founded Rogue was the original creator of the 944 MAF kit before he passed the torch on to Lindsey Racing. My understanding is that the FQS settings modify the amount of fuel being injected by lengthening or shortening the injector duty cycle under various conditions. For example, the fuel map has three different data tables, one for idle, one for wide open throttle, and one for part throttle, where the latter factors in “load” as an additional variable. So it seems like in order to increase the fuel mix by +3%, the injectors will remain open longer for each cycle, but that amount of time can vary based upon RPM and load in order to achieve the additional 3% fuel for each data point. Let me know if you come to any major epiphanies on the topic, I’m always happy to learn from others’ research. Rogue Tuning - www.roguetuning.com

[@TakeFlightGarage]

@@NC944erOkay awesome thank you so much for the reply that’s kind of what I figured it was doing, but at a basic level I didn’t realize it would change based on RPM. The reason I asked is because I tried to go with a set of aftermarket injectors recently after I discovered a leak. The results were interesting I couldn’t get the car to idle properly but it pulled so so well when accelerating due to the better atomization of the fuel. I’ll give that link a read thank you!

[@NC944er]

@@TakeFlightGarage Oh man, yeah my old injectors are a little sensitive. I had them cleaned and then one locked up prior to install. They seem to be ok after a second cleaning, I’m just not sure how long they’ll last. The original Bosch units are still available for about $100 each if the aftermarket ones don’t work out. I believe part number: 0-280-150-803

[@TakeFlightGarage]

@@NC944er my part number is a little different I couldn’t find anything less than $300 per injector! 280 150 158 are the stock part numbers on my car, I’ll have to double check what the after market number is that got. I was experiencing a choppy idle but solid acceleration full and part throttle, and then loooots of burbling and popping between gear changes/ on throttle lift off while in gear (which I will admit I thoroughly enjoyed lol) The odd thing is that when I adjusted to a leaner FQS setting the idle and popping got worse. I ended up switching to +3% for the best all around experience but I knew the best thing to do was just throw the old injectors back in. I’ll take a look at that 803 part number and see if it cross references with the aftermarket ones I got.

[@NC944er]

@@TakeFlightGarage Yeah, $1,200 for a new set of injectors is pretty wild. 😂

[@davidkraus5221]

I have an early car, and if I understand correctly to use the Lindsey MAF I would just need to switch out my 85.1 DME module for an 88 one?

[@NC944er]

Yep, an ‘88 or ‘89 (2.7L 8V) will have the needed 28-pin setup to accommodate the chip. If you find an ‘85.5-‘87, those can be converted by soldering in 4 additional chip sockets.

[@KJBlakstad]

The balance belt is very noisy when you started the engine at 7:10, is this an issue with improper tighening or the brand of the belt? I ran into the same issue when i replaced mine, it was almost completely silent before

[@NC944er]

Hey KJ! I think the belt noise you’re hearing is being amplified by the poor quality built-in mic on the GoPro and the acoustics of my garage, as the belt noise is more subdued when listening by hear. That said, the balance shaft belt does account for a larger portion of the belt noise generated by these cars in general, a lot of which lies in the adjustment of the idler roller. So much so that I’ve seen people completely move the roller down and off to the side so that it doesn’t contact the belt at all in attempts to reduce the noise. The balance belts are also notoriously over tightened, even by some specialists, when in fact they run MUCH looser than the timing belts when set correctly. My current belt is a Continental brand and is set with a 1mm preload on the upper belt span per the factory workshop manual. I may try a Gates or OEM belt for the next replacement to see if there’s any difference, but let me know if you’ve tried one that has worked out well for you. 👍🏼

[@KJBlakstad]

@@NC944er Thanks for the info! Might try and adjust mine somewhat then. It was replaced by a specialist since I struck a very good deal on it back then ("University student discount"). I will probably not get the same deal again so next time I will do it myself and read up on what belt is the most quiet. But it is strange that mine is as loud as the video presents yours to be when the belts are OEM and tightened with proper Porsche procedures

[@NC944er]

@@KJBlakstad There is a highly elusive “sweet spot” when tensioning the balance belt, but when you find it, it makes a difference. 😂 It wouldn’t be too much work to pull your lower accessory belts, pull the plastic belt covers, and then twist the upper span of the balance belt. If it’s hard to twist it 90° then it’s too tight. It should generally twist just past 90° with moderate finger/thumb pressure when it’s properly tensioned.

[@mikelakowski8120]

I have an 83 and i have been having trouble with loss of power after 5k rpm and have been thinking that iv lost some compression or need to clean the injectors. What would be the best way to find my issue?

[@NC944er]

Hey man! Is the engine breaking up at all or does it just feel like less power after 5k? The 8-valve engine was setup for mid-range power, so you’ll feel the most out of it between 3k-5k, after which point the torque curve drops of pretty quickly, even on a healthy engine. But if you feel like power has dropped from previous experience, I’d perform a compression test across the cylinders and look for variations of greater than 10% between the highest and lowest cylinders. That will give you an idea of any valve or head gasket issues.

[@user-hu6yr9ro4q]

I want this for mine BMW m20 motronic1.0

[@liamflynn6929]

I'm curious how much difference this would make along with a cat delete. I think that would help it a good bit

[@NC944er]

Certainly couldn’t hurt! Rogue Tuning saw another 5% gain in adding a free-flowing "cat-back" exhaust during their design/testing phase when the original kit was developed.

[@JimmyJohenning]

Your car sounds great on the throttle! Did the MAF change the sound?

[@NC944er]

Hey Jimmy, no the MAF didn’t change the sound too much, maybe a slightly different intake sound, but I think what you’re hearing regarding the exhaust is due to placement of the mic for those shots, where it was remotely mounted on the rear bumper right above the exhaust tip… makes for an exciting video, but the sound in the cabin is much more subdued.

[@YINGYANGPOLARBEAR]

Awesome and eye opening video 👌 Would there be much of a chance in fuel consumption /mpg?

[@NC944er]

The factory AFM tends to run a little lean for improved fuel economy and reduced emissions, with the aftermarket MAF tending towards the richer side, so there’s likely some increased fuel consumption with the MAF, but I haven’t measured it. Speaking anecdotally, I haven’t noticed a major drop or a need to fuel up more frequently than before. I’ve heard from a 944 owner that his passed state emissions testing in Idaho with the MAF, which is a good sign, but also understand there are different requirements from state to state and this would fail the visual inspection alone in California.

[@YINGYANGPOLARBEAR]

Ok, thanks mate. I'm in Scotland UK. So will need to see how that pans out.

[@richardhummel2160]

Very nice video! Will you be attending 944 Fest in Ohio this September?

[@NC944er]

Thanks! I did pick up a 944 Fest t-shirt recently, but it’s looking like Ohio will be a bit too far out of reach for me at the moment. I was planning to have my A/C fixed by now this year, but have gotten sucked into addressing a couple of fluid leaks. 😳

[@richardhummel2160]

@@NC944er there will always be leaks. Always LOL.

[@NC944er]

@@richardhummel2160 Been battling them for years now. 😂 I just replaced all the balance shaft housing seals last week, having previously only done the front two, so with all the work over the past few years the only engine seal I haven’t replaced is the rear main seal. The clutch was replaced by a prior owner, so I’m assuming they would have done the rear main seal at the same time, and hopefully I have a few years on that, but we’ll see.

[@PetersPorsches]

Been looking to throw one on my 86 8v, how have you found it since you have had it for a month ? Would you do the full cold air from Lindsay if you could go back ?

[@NC944er]

I think the price point is a little high on it, but it would be a good value closer to $500, and I’m not sure why it went up $50 over the past couple years, probably because of the redesigned intake tube. I will say the aluminum tube has a great look and feel to it. It’s well manufactured and the appearance is much improved over the previous plastic ones. What can’t really be measured is how much more fun it makes the car to drive. If I think about switching back to an AFM, I definitely don’t feel excited about the idea. 😂 The car feels much more choked and lethargic coming into the throttle with the factory AFM. So I think it ultimately depends on how often you’re able to drive your car to justify the cost and take advantage of the enjoyment factor. If you get your car out weekly or monthly at least, it’s probably worth it. I’ve got the fuel mix set at +6% now, where after cold start it does hesitate a bit on initial throttle tip in, but runs perfect after a few minutes and it’s warmed up. Other owners have reported the same behavior so I’m not sure if it’s the tune itself or what. When I’ve spoken to Lindsey, they just point to various suspects like vacuum leaks and old fuel system components, but nearly all of those things on mine are completely brand new. As far as the intake setup, I’m pretty happy with the factory intake and like the idea of keeping it mostly to the factory appearance in the engine bay.

[@henryneufeld4944]

How much harder is it with an 85.5-87? Confused about adding a pin

[@NC944er]

@@henryneufeld4944 Outside of adding the two extra pins to the board in the DME computer, the process is the same. It would require some fine welding on a 40 year old board, so there is some risk there. You could send it in to Lindsey and they’ll add the pins for $50 last I checked. For me in retrospect, I would have just gotten the 944 Sport DME computer from Focus 9 at the same time, it already includes the extra pins and it future proofs the “brains” from inevitable breakdowns caused by the aging circuits.

[@henryneufeld4944]

@@NC944er I don’t need the one with OBD+ right, just the 944/951 Sport DME

[@NC944er]

@@henryneufeld4944 Correct, you would not need the OBD.

[@rrassoc]

Nice! Thoughts about the different 0-60?

[@NC944er]

My guess would be a minimal improvement… I’d be surprised if it was more than 1/10 of a second.

[@atcav3999]

just put one in my car and i can't seem to get it right. Bogs down at the first part of the pedal?????

[@NC944er]

Yep, that seems to be a common symptom for some other owners as well. Have you adjusted the FQS setting yet and if so, what % have you tried? The hesitation is eliminated on mine by setting it to +9%, then it’s good on the throttle tip-in, but rich for the rest of the RPM curve. I get better overall performance when it’s set at +3%, but the bogging down doesn’t subside until the engine is heated to operating temperature.

[@atcav3999]

can seem to get idle adjustment good either. Any video on adjusting idle / mixture screw

[@NC944er]

@@atcav3999 My idle has been spot on, so I didn’t make any adjustments. Here are a couple links that explain the process… www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/fuel-08.htm www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/IDLE944T.html

[@Seagrams]

@@NC944er I'm trying to dial in my idle, and reading the Clark's manual it mentions "run the engine for about 10 minutes after the coolant is at normal operating temperature". Not sure if that's the method you use, but as clarification, does it mean wait 10 minutes after the dash coolant temp gets half way up? (I believe half way up is around 90c)

[@NC944er]

@@Seagrams Yes sir, you’re on the right track! Most of the cooling fan switches engage between 89°-92° C so with the A/C turned off, you can also just wait until the low speed fans kick on, another sign you’re at operating temp.

[@nadavbalilti2264]

Good video!!. It looks like that the kit doesnt worth the money

[@NC944er]

I think the kit would be much more attractive if the price point were a bit lower, but what can’t be measured is how much more fun it makes the car. If I think about switching back to an AFM, I definitely don’t feel excited about the idea. 😂

[@kevinpelletier7053]

Something seems off with your gear ratios - only gets to 50 in 2nd? Only slightly over 60 well in to third? Maybe I have a turbo trans lol

[@NC944er]

Ha! My transmission code is 5Y, which matches my 88 model year, having a shorter 5th gear than the early cars (not good at all for highway speeds), the the rest is the same. To your point, the Turbo transaxle has slightly taller 2nd, 3rd, and 4th… maybe you found a secret upgrade. 😂

[@kevinpelletier7053]

@@NC944er i have an 85.5 and my car gets to about 58 (on the speedo, not GPS) in 2nd. Time to investigate

[@trbossdoggy]

Does this fit to 944 S2 3.0 as well?

[@NC944er]

Unfortunately this kit is not compatible with the 16v cars. Rogue Tuning was working on a version for the S/S2 quite a few years back, but it was never finalized and he has moved on to other things.

[@tims_4x4_garage]

So on that diag port.. I have 5.0V on the one port to the ground port but 0.0V on the other port to ground. Odd. I have only used the 5.0V one jumped to set idle speed. Never knew the other one should have 12.0v

[@NC944er]

Does your ‘87 port have the three pins or the five? Not quite sure when they eliminated the two on the sides, but thinking it was some time after the 85.5 refresh. 1988 was right on the cusp of OBD coming out, so it still has that weird military-spec plug.

[@tims_4x4_garage]

@@NC944er I have the plug with the three port, two are blank. Looks like the plug you have.

[@NC944er]

@@tims_4x4_garage Ok cool, I wonder what’s up with that other pin. 🤔 There isn’t a ton of info out there on the ports, but I read that for the three-pin versions, one pin is on the circuit with the temp sensor and the other to the ICV.

[@tims_4x4_garage]

@@NC944er the only weird electrical thing I haven’t figured out with my car yet is my “mpg gauge” which works when it wants to. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. It worked all week until yesterday. When it’s working again, I will check the port again. for some reason, I feel like maybe it’ll show 12v then. Haha

[@NC944er]

@@tims_4x4_garage Ha! Sounds like a few gremlins in there. 🤣

[@jbfinishingsjellebilliau9054]

Would you make more bhp with a airfilter from k&n in your original airbox?i would like to do this conversion.i’m from europe.i hope that lindsay racing sends it over to europe😅🙏

[@NC944er]

Most of the measured testing I’ve seen for the K&N filters as that they add negligible performance gains. In some cases they do more harm because they don’t filter as well as the factory air filters, allowing contaminants into the engine. Porsche designed the air box with significant volume, so the main bottleneck in the design is the AFM, which the MAF solves.

[@jbfinishingsjellebilliau9054]

@@NC944er thanks for your input👌

[@geoffstandee]

Any difference in running so far?

[@NC944er]

Hey Geoff, the car still starts and runs reliably so far with no major problems. It’ll occasionally go just a tad lean on cold start, where it takes an extra second for idle to settle in around 1,000 rpm, but it doesn’t happen all the time and when it does, it really only stumbles for a second before resolving itself. I have all new vacuum lines, but haven’t checked my throttle body o-rings or the top seal on the AOS, so there may be a tiny leak causing that, but it hasn’t been bad enough to warrant a tear-down as of yet.

[@pierremartin9048]

Just got this installed by my mechanic, unfortunately the cold start idle is horrendous and very sporadic. He wired it the same way. When warmed up ytd, runs ok but lunging a bit. Worried. I am bringing it back. The engine always ran perfectly from cold start to warm with the old MAF. Starts perfectly. Hum.

[@NC944er]

Sorry to hear that! I will say that the factory AFM is more forgiving when it comes to small vacuum leaks and fuel supply irregularities, to the point where it can mask existing issues. But yeah, if you’ve replaced all your vacuum lines and tested fuel pressure, cleaned injectors, etc… I get it. Did you guys increase the fuel % on the FQS? Any improvement there? Mine is now set at +6%, where it hesitates briefly on throttle tip in for maybe the first 2-3 minutes after cold start, but runs perfectly after that. Other owners have reported the same behavior, so I’m thinking it may be the tune itself.

[@PetersPorsches]

As a fellow 944 enthusiast, I would really recommend checking the chip in your dme I have improperly seated a few race chips myself and had similar issues, Ik it sounds dumb but give the dme a little knock with your knuckles if it cleans up the idle it could be your chip or a dme problem. When you open these old boards cold solders do like to break. I haven’t installed this kit but I am looking to, if you are in need of a dme for a 24 pin I have a few laying around Even an old Tune chip for one as well if you can get your problem sorted.

[@pierremartin9048]

Very appreciative Peter, thank you. Will look at the DME and the new chip seating.

[@NC944er]

@@PetersPorsches Good call Peter! Like inserting an 8-bit Nintendo game cartridge into the console, sometimes it’s just not seated correctly. 😂

[@tomt930]

@@PetersPorsches I could be interested in a DME, I have 944 from a friend that is missing the DME.

[@masonwood1141]

I want this for my 85 944 -where do I buy!?

[@NC944er]

Lindsey Racing - www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LRA-944-MAF-TUNE

[@user-qf8lv6so5s]

Did you have any problems getting it to jive with your tps?

[@NC944er]

TPS has been all good. The setup was going a little lean on initial throttle tip-in, probably accentuated by the aftermarket throttle response cam, but those symptoms were eliminated by increasing the fuel mix % on the FQS. I believe I have it set to +6% at the moment.

[@NC944er]

Also… I’m not sure if this is part of your issue, but I’ll add that in general, the MAF tends to emphasize any pre-existing problems with fuel pressure and vacuum leaks that the more forgiving AFM would otherwise mask. So when the MAF is installed, a small vacuum leak can cause the engine to idle/run rough, but be seemingly fine when the AFM was installed, which isn’t really an issue with the MAF itself, it’s just more sensitive to the condition of the other systems because of the free flowing air.

[@user-qf8lv6so5s]

@@NC944er I have an 88 na with the rogue tuning maf kit, and I was just wondering. I'm pretty sure it's just a tps issue, the car runs awesome at idle without the tps unhooked. I smoked it for vacuum leaks and it was good

[@NC944er]

@@user-qf8lv6so5s Ahhhh, gotcha. Yeah, the switches can fail as well. It looks like the “Porsche” units run about $700, but the same “Bosch” ones are only about $70 😂 Here are some part numbers to check out - 944-606-113-01 interchangeable with both 0-280-120-308 and 0-280-120-309. Let me know if you figure it out. I’d probably start with the Bosch unit.

[@happycampersminnesota7526]

What years does this work?

[@NC944er]

The MAF kit will run on all model years for the 8-valve NA engines, but the chip uses 28 pins, so it’s DME dependent on the later version. If you have an early car, you may need to upgrade/swap the DME. I mention the process in my MAF overview video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p32cqmeOmNGCoq8

[@dewizle5026]

What's the fuel mileage like now?

[@NC944er]

I haven’t tracked any MPG changes in the MAF, but it seems comparable. Anecdotally, nothing stands out as glaring difference since the conversion in either a higher or lower MPG from before.

[@zalexindustries2968]

Can you share how much the kit costs.

[@NC944er]

$650 - www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LRA-944-MAF-TUNE

[@quickturn66]

The timing timing belt sounds tight

[@NC944er]

Audio recorded by handheld devices can be deceiving and tends to amplify higher pitched sounds. The belt noise is far more subdued when listening with the natural ear and the tension is triple-checked every time I change the belts.

[@ricoxxx1849]

Does that kit work with the early cars ? #PorscheNoSubstitute944

[@NC944er]

Hey Rico, yes the kit is compatible with the early cars, but will require a pin upgrade/conversion on the DME as follows: • 944 NA 2.5L 8v '82 to '85/1 NOTE: Because the chip is soldered in place, you need a '85/2 or later DME. 24 pin will need converting to 28 pin socket and the 28 pin DME is good to go. • 944 NA 2.5L 8v '85/2 to '87 NOTE: 24 to 28 pin DME chip socket conversion is required. This can be preformed by Lindsey Racing for $50.00 or parts purchased to do it yourself. • 944 NA 2.5L 8v '88 with 28 pin DME - no upgrade needed. • 944 NA 2.7L 8v '89 with 28 pin DME - no upgrade needed.

[@rossstoneman832]

Can this MAF be used on an 84?

[@NC944er]

Hey Ross, yes this MAF will work on an ‘84 model year, but you’d need to update the DME computer to a later version to accommodate the larger sized tuning chip. There’s some info on that process in my overview video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p32cqmeOmNGCoq8

[@rossstoneman832]

@@NC944er - Thanks! Your content is really helpful and appreciated.

[@944geek85]

That is a lot of money for a minuscule return. ROW 944s give 163hp standard and more with an upgraded chip. The AFM is not that restrictive as normal Atmospheric pressure 'blows. it open with `14.7 PSI (normal atmospheric pressure) . Having induction CFM higher than your engine can absorb is a waste of time (sorry K&N) . Your induction rating cannot be higher than your engine was designed for. The only thing that degrades intake performance is a dirty filter. You're better off replacing rings and bottom end bearings and refreshing your engine to return it to stock power. This is not that difficult. Vacuum leaks are your biggest enemy. Replace your vacuum hoses. I had the one under the intake manifold leaking for years and when I finally discovered it, changing all the hoses make the car leap into life like a scalded cat. A DME chip upgrade from a reputable provider can also change the characteristics of the car. Not much more power but a zippier drive.

[@NC944er]

I agree the price point should be below $500 for what you get. Aside from the mini-gains, it does add some reliability over the factory AFM due to the absence of mechanical moving parts that wear out.

[@rrassoc]

So I'm disappointed to be learning that this doesn't apply to the 16 valve engines.

[@NC944er]

Yeah, unfortunately the 16v version never made it to market. It was briefly under development by the original product creator, Rogue Tuning, but they got out of the game before it was fully realized, and then the torch was passed to Lindsey to package and continue selling the 8v units. I think with the lower production volume of the 16v cars, there may not have been enough demand to justify the continued development and at this point, a number of products are dropping off the market even for the 8v cars.

[@stinni]

leider nur für 944 Typ2 ab Baujahr 08/1985. Typ1 82-84 geht nicht!

[@NC944er]

Das Kit ist mit dem früheren Typ 1 kompatibel, nachdem der DME-Computer auf das neuere Modell mit 8 Pins aufgerüstet wurde.

[@kalinblake4668]

isnt worth the $650 price tag

[@NC944er]

I agree in part for what it “does” on paper, but I also understand the price point for what it “is” and here’s why: Lindsey had to source a new EEPROM chip supplier just to keep it going and it’s run in small batches, they also have some tooling and design in the new aluminum tube, which looks way better than the previous plastic one, they provide tech support over the phone and it’s not easy supporting a product for antique cars when many of them now have vacuum leaks and fuel delivery issues that are masked by the more forgiving AFM, and most of the alternatives have fallen off the market, I believe Vitesse still makes an AFM kit, but he doesn’t have an online store and that complicates the buying process. Would I have preferred to pay $500 for it? Absolutely! But at the same time, I get it… it’s affected by today’s evolution of the 944 aftermarket.

[@DKMR2]

​@@NC944er There's no way that chip costs over $10 to make, the aluminum tube does require a CNC mill, but there are definitely ways around that. i wish they would sell me everything but the aluminum tube. i could easily make one out of aluminum for under $80 (does require welding).

[@NC944er]

@@DKMR2 The aluminum intake tube is pretty sweet, I have to admit. It has a much better fit and finish than the old tubes they were using and it blends in better with the neighboring parts in the engine bay. After speaking with Dave Lindsey on the phone some time ago, he said the MAF sensors are a Hitachi manufactured part used in Ford applications. He receives them in Hitachi boxes and said the serial numbers are already scratched off upon his receipt and he’s not entirely sure why, all he does is take the blades and installs them in the intake tubes. 🤔 So it seems he would have the “ability” to sell just the chip and sensor, but perhaps not the “desire.”

[@gabrielsansar6187]

it costs more than the damn car