Positive only dog training works in the REAL world? Sport heeling vs Real heeling..and much more.

Haz talks about the ideology and real world application of positive training using video examples.
shieldk9.ca
shieldk9dogs.com

[@jordanbezeau]

Not knowing any better I went to a positive only dog trainer with my first dog and it left me with so many holes in his training. I was planning to do more training with that trainer but after the class was over I was so turned off dog training because I felt it was useless. So happy I found you guys for my German Shepherd. I attended your puppy class and will be coming back next month in April for Obedience 1. Positive only dog training does not work.

[@aliciaorozco4099]

The two Malinois walking past the squirrel in a heel is AMAZING! You are THE trainer.

[@karenmullen3210]

I can't quite express how happy it makes me to see two good and fit examples of a German Shepherd. I cry every time I see a banana backed shepherd with crunched up back legs and a mincing gait that looks like it's winding a drunkard's path home after a weeklong drunk.

[@hazsmoothwalker7458]

OhMyGosh I know! I hate it so much! Show line German Shepherds were taken too far.

[@anthonylagrone9135]

I love the way you real world train.

[@jeffk464]

Yup, I think they should stop breeding the american show lines. They need to go back to the working lines and just breed from the calmer ones to make GSD's a great pet dog again. I don't think most people are up for a high drive working line GSD.

[@1cbrracer]

Positive only works only if you have an EXTREMELY food/toy driven dog, but then you have to have food with you every. Single. Time. You go out.

[@lexus9337]

I am by no means positive only on a regular basis i use adversive tool prong collar, choke collar, slip lead, bark collar, e-collar hell sometimes i use 2 e-collar at the same time. but I got to say your comment is flat out wrong. it is only true if you dont know basic dog training skills. And we can observe the same phenomenon with adversive tool Variable reward with invariable correction is the key. A true statement would be that positive only works only when the distraction is of less value than the reward in wich the behavior was founded on.

[@1cbrracer]

@@lexus9337 that's what I ws insinuating, although not very clearly. Positive only, only works if your reward is higher than another dog, deer, squirrel. And the dog knows the consequence of its actions if it decides to chase or disobey a recall command.

[@JamesSmith-pc6bh]

That's my dog. Half the time he doesn't even listen with food.

[@1cbrracer]

@@JamesSmith-pc6bh iv got a labrador, notoriesly easy to train with food.... Supposedly😂 I use a tennis ball, he's more engaged with it. Check us out at jaxthelovinglab

[@karenmullen3210]

True. There are many breeds that food or play or only positives training does not work force I am frequently had to use at my disposal that I have learned or that can be learned When I have had a pack of different types such as working Boxer, Am Pit Bull Ter and Terriers and lap dog Malteses. I don't let my dogs get an inch in the wrong direction before I correct them or distract them out of the bad behavior that could blow up on me one day or potential become a liability. Recalls were never a problem with any of the dogs 'xept for the APBT and the AmStaff who liked to chase cats outside the front door, but I did not do animal sociatization with them because I wanted them to chase off anything smaller than they were except for the lap dogs in my pack. They and the Jack Russell/Dachshund Heinz 57 mix was for varmit control. They were okay enough with other dogs unless other dogs were rude or tried to dominate them. I seem to always take the most dominant males and females of the litter or the runt. I never seem to go for the most social or the one with the softest temperament. That's probably a reflection of my own temperament but I am neither a psychologist nor a philosopher. I'll say this, we really do understand each other...and Maltese, ooh baby, they do have a dark side, they don't take "snit" from any body or thing. The boxer was never ever far, and she would even protect a guest in my home from somebody yelling across the street from her. I don't do very far more training and I only have a few absolutes, those are about door manners, and the word stop and sit or down/stay, and stay back, and get out of that, and move. There is just just about bonding and being fair and letting them be who they are and letting that relationship grow organically. They need the boundaries, the rules, and in a pack they must obey the rules. Everybody needs to know their place and many times people look at their cute doggies and think that they don't need to learn to be disappointed once in a while - I mean would you let your kids get away with running on a couch, or running to go jump on the bed and rip around with the covers or chew stuff? I think not.

[@2greeksandacamera]

This is time-proven true real world dog training philosophy, proven by my utterly reliable lab who saved my life against a violent charging bull.

[@patriciacobb7980]

I love that you put your young guy with an older female to learn manners. You put young horses in with a herd for the same reason! I enjoy all of your videos because I feel like they apply in a variety of situations and you are very clear in your content. Thanks Haz!

[@jeradhoffman3937]

Appreciate the content. I picked up a whip smart 2 year old Australian Cattle Dog about 6 weeks ago that started displaying strong leash reactivity as soon as I got him home. Spent about 3 weeks trying to apply “force free” methods where I was encouraged to watch the dog have meltdowns for ten minutes straight and feed him hotdogs. I read up and got with an e collar trainer. Took about a week to see the reactivity diminished orders of magnitudes and the dog started displaying relaxed body language on leash in public. I’m currently working towards off leash reliability and cussing the “force free” trainers for the sacks of hot air they truly seem to be. Dogs speak by actions/corrections. Find the appropriate level of corrections and balance it with plenty of positive reinforcement. You all at Shield K9 appear to have it down to an art, so thanks again for the tons of free content. Hugely helpful.

[@dylanm7063]

Intro is amazing! Loving the content. Thank you

[@mavisme4645]

I did a service dog video a while ago relating to a focused heel vs a working heel. My service dog looks quite uninterested in me when we're working together - she's looking this way and that and more or less just 'hanging' out at my side. However, she's almost bulletproof in that she's ALWAYS there by my side no matter the distraction, no matter the situation, no matter the company. We compete in Rally Obedience and she's made it to the highest class possible; the #1 dog in her breed. After more than 100 trials, she's always qualified (other than one accident in a dirt ring that was my bad for not giving her a chance to potty before going in). She's completely reliable off-leash. I used 95% positive training with her because she is very sensitive and willing, but I see day-in/day-out with clients that 100% positive isn't the answer because they don't have the tools to create the motivation that HAS to go along with that food/toy reward. Instead what I see is people desperately trying to stuff treats into their dog's face every time s/he is distracted or being reactive. They don't understand why the treats work at home, but not out in public. They don't want to correct their dog for fear of hurting his feelings, and they refuse to guide their dog with a leash lest they injure its neck. And the worst part?? They feel guilty - like they are letting their dog down.

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

This was me before I learnt learning theory. I feel for those people, I really do. I used to be there, feeling like crap because I was letting my dog down. I believed the rhetoric of the positive only people. I thought it was my fault. I gave up on myself and took my dog back. Thankfully now I still have her, because her breeder knew me and simply waited for me to change my mind and come back. But I still remember those days and though I can't exactly blame it on the positive only trainers altogether (because I truly believe some people just want to do right by their dogs), I feel I need to spread the word. EDIT: WE need to spread the word.

[@leopard6554]

All dogs problems stem from people who humanize dogs...!!! Dogs don't understand and don't care...!!! They need rewards and corrections to lead a healthy life... Remember guidance is affection too...!!!

[@zahedsubhan7676]

We have a working line German Shepherd imported from the Czech Republic. Crazy food drive and prey drive. We got him at 7 months. Terrific lineage. I thought I would start off with largely reward based training. He sits, downs, goes to place, flip finishes in heel etc.. WHEN I have food! Couldn’t give much of a crap otherwise. Started a couple of days ago to make him more accountable (corrections). In those couple of days, it’s a different dog! He actually does what he is asked for and what he knows...

[@zahedsubhan7676]

Great points Haz makes ..is what I wanted to say. Terrific and honest. So many “KZbin trainers” ... even the so-called “balanced” ones, don’t want to talk (too) much about aversives. Shame, positive reinforcement is only half the picture..

[@vikingdogmanship]

well said

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

​@@Godiscoming888 find a good balanced trainer. There is a lot of learning theory that goes into knowing when to correct etc. It's not something you can answer in a KZbin comment. There are also variable reinforcement schedules to consider and - more importantly - if your dog is a puppy, it's pretty unfair to expect them to perform like an adult. Find a good balanced trainer.

[@smirnoffsmash6283]

really appreciate these videos as an aspiring trainer! thank you!.

[@logun24x7]

Balanced training and understanding your individual dog is always the right approach, 99% of the problems start with errors in training. I've seen 90 pound Shepherds with their ears flat and tails tucked turned into fear biters because they've be so manhandled and over corrected, wanting to take your hand off if you try to put a training collar on. 9 times out of 10 you quickly figure out the owners training was so inconsistent or laced rewards the dog was left guessing and constantly punished into submission. On the other hand I've seen 3 year old dogs so reactive they are a hazard to walk in the park because the owners were to uptight about snapping Fluffy's lead and they can't figure out how to positively reinforce him out of this behavior now Fluffy turned into Frankenstein.

[@littleninjai222]

Another very educational and informative video, Haz. Keep up the great work. We appreciate your opinions about the REAL world of dog training. Positive only may work nicely for some meek and nice pet dogs but it most certainly does not work for all dogs and certainly not dominate working dogs. Love the intro, it's 'sic' and love the off-leash hiking. That would be a dream for me with my GSD.

[@Karina-Loves-Andreas]

I started getting very serious & CONSISENT with markers & release commends because of you, Haz. Makes such a difference!! I use "Cheep", "Break", "eheheh", "good", "good boy", "yes" in similar/same way as you. I also say "No", but "eheheh" is actually much more effective in getting him to stop doing the wrong thing, whether it's a small or big correction. Not sure why--but "eheh" works--he immediately either stops, corrects himself, or tries to figure out what I'm asking. Thanks so much, Haz!

[@marypalmer2088]

I get so caught up in your videos when your talking about life, you a great speaker.

[@dimitardimitrov3421]

This is becoming my favorite channel for dog training. Very practical and well explained! I can’t tell you how many other channels I’ve seen that are pure drivel. “You have to connect with your dog!”, “you have to lead your dog with calmness”, “you have to feel your dog”. What does this mean?! How does one do this? Guess what, after 15 minutes of the video (any of these videos) and multiple product placements and shit it doesn’t give you an answer. It usually shows you the trainer in a park that is completely empty and a “well behaved” dog. The other weird thing is that when I check the comments of such videos it’s full of people that go “omg I love you!!! You’re the best!!! Such a great advice!!!”. What advice?! I remember watching one video that had a title that was something in the lines of “how to stop your puppy biting you instantly!!!!!!”... ok, sounds promising, let’s check it out. “When he bites you, all you have to do is say ‘NO!’ with a firm voice and turn around!” *Done, problem solved!* Bitch, you think I didn’t try this?! For weeks, with absolutely no result?! Well, one day I got sick of it, rolled up a newspaper, waited for him to bite me, said “AH AH” and slapped him with it. I did it like twice. Do you know what happened? Yep, he never bit me again. Also, he didn’t get devastated and psychologically damaged like people claimed. Anyway, I’m so sick of the nonsense. Because of such wuss trainers dogs are being put down! It’s damaging, it’s not productive. Sorry for the long rant! I love your videos, keep up the good work.

[@msclark7583]

Amazing stuff, Haz!

[@talshagan5000]

I can't believe how informative and educational this video to me! Thank you so much 👌👍

[@TeenyTheOne]

When I first got my lab mix, he was a year and 7 months, he was leash reactive (still is a little) and he was biting my brothers, he had a thing about men. Well I was a noob and I didn't know there were so many different styles of training, I just found the closest one that could come to my house. Her method for teaching my dog to not bite my family was make them pet him and give him food, this mad it so much worse, we didn't even touch his reactivity because she was too bothered about him knowing sit and stay. I sacked her off and got a proper trainer in after speaking with other people having similar issues. With punishment his biting inside stopped straight away, his reactivity is very manageable, we're getting there. I'd never touch a positive only trainer ever again.

[@scottwhitten2016]

One of the better videos explaining the differences of training for dog sports vs. real world.

[@chachaelbrecht5860]

I like this explanation of training. Excellent knowledge and clearly explained.

[@atama17]

You should do a video explaining how you use the bonker that you talked about in the nail trim video

[@veronicav2478]

Very informative, thank you!

[@francisco88594]

when shieldk9 uploads a new video: 😎😎😎😎

[@myhypermotard8351]

Great information, so true about positive only training. It just won’t work when you really need it. There has to be accountability for action, there must be corrections ( not in a bad way)in order for dogs to follow commands at all time. They know when and how to test the handlers.

[@deespasojevic3013]

That intro is sick dude 🤟

[@MinecraftKlepacz]

Why do lots of people think that each correction is somehow "harmfull"? All animals (incl. Homo sapiens) learn through positive and negative outcomes of their behaviours/actions.

[@Nocomment552]

Not to be TMI, but I like to think of my father as a perfect example for this kind of question. While my dad was very much loving and was very good at showing affection at the right times, his approach to punishment or correcting bad behavior from a younger me was wayyyy to aggressive and angry and lead to some long term psychological issues. If he had dialed it back and remained calm but firm in those situations, it would have been a different story. When people today think of the terms “punishment” or “correction” when it comes to dogs (and even kids as I’ve exemplified) they tend to think of the latter kind of attitude like in my example with my old man, because unfortunately so many people don’t actually dish out punishment or corrections in a calm but direct way. So now, you have people going to extremes, either being too aggressive with their punishments or not giving any punishment at all, when there really is a balanced in between. That’s why you have so many people afraid of giving punishment/corrections, because they are afraid of actually being abusive, when the reality is they probably won’t be.

[@parkerbrown-nesbit1747]

​@@Nocomment552 I also think that it's because people equate negative with abuse.

[@misssamhain4334]

This is such an awesome video! I was getting shit because my SDIT doesn’t check in every 2 seconds so according to the service dog police all I did was taught him to ‘walk properly’ also since I don’t record my ‘medical episodes’ he’s fake. Like really? You’re such an amazing trainer! I wish you were closer!

[@user-ty5di3ku6o]

I can name a few people who do R+ who compete and have done well (sometimes). And the one who does the best will straight up tell you it's less reliable and that she just likes the challenge and not giving corrections. The rest will swear their dog is just as reliable as anyone else's, then fairly regularly bomb and fail a trial...

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

That's interesting! Can I ask for her name?

[@sarahdiaz49]

Thank you for this, gave me much understanding .

[@adultgeeks3900]

Love y’all videos

[@raniyuna2930]

My dog was no socialised and abused. With positive training I wasted time. He wasn't even allowing no one touch him. We did normal training with corrections. And now my dog is prepairing self on being service dog under organisation.❤

[@theshepherdoffat]

that squirrel 6:37 insane control!

[@HomesteadAce]

Quality content! 👍

[@gabriellal0462]

I trained my own dog, a cane corso st bernard, he just turned 3 and we had one incident where a dog tried to attack him through a chain link fence he didn't agree and barked, pulled and broke his flat collar. We haven't ever used an e-collar on him so any command he listened to was purely him being obedient. It was on a main street with high traffic so if he ran that way he was as good as gone. I said come, nothing, I said it again and sure enough he came and sat at my side. He may not be bullet proof in his commands but he is reliable enough fore to trust if he gets out he will not go anywhere. Side note before we got our gs puppy we had no fence in a suburban neighborhood and he wouldn't pass a line that marked the edge of our driveway with no barrier other than him saying I am not allowed past this. Forgot to mention that we did a mix of positive and negative reenforcement to get him to listen prong collar for leash training

[@beam3250]

Great explanation, i totally agree with. Sad that there is so much controversion about that topic. Maybe because many handlers and trainers do not make a difference between the real needs and aswell the breeds. Functional obedience is the word i learned today for what i train with my dog: to make him 100% reliable everywhere without leash. Thanks Haz!

[@andrewfelsted2758]

Intro looks sick my guy

[@bettymcconnell1011]

Love your channel

[@skyeholistics5520]

Finally! A K-9 trainer that understands dog behavior and knows what he is doing! Love your wealth of knowledge, I am using your videos to help me train my rottweiler.

[@chengsterboi07]

I agree. There need to be negative reinforcement too. It's not bad to correct an unwanted behavior from our dogs. Always use attrition and positive reinforcement more when they do what we want.

[@leopard6554]

Excellent...!!! You are very good 👍 👏 👌

[@daimyo1363]

Why did the vid get taken down for a few hours i was halfway through and then it was gone and now its back lol

[@robertspinks835]

Such a good video 👏👏

[@MrRizikoo]

I just love how I get the suggestion from youtube to watch Zak G right after this vid :') like wtf

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

Ha 😁

[@AdventureswithLycanmyGSD]

Brilliant video with brilliant and intelligent content.

[@paulrampon1167]

I have a six month old Beagle/Pit Bull mix. Have tried positive only but cant get past her stubbornness and independence. What would you suggest?

[@judgeleeder638]

My Boi loves to play with other dogs off leash but if he's on leash he barks and if the other dog gets in his face then he will go for that dog. I find myself apologising because he has gone for that dog. He will walk with another dog on leash once I have corrected him. But I do feel embarrassed that my dog has gone for that other dog in the 1st place. Am I doing the right or wrong thing here? I'm learning a lot and love your videos 🐾🐶🐾

[@Skateboss369]

Thats a really cool intro 👌

[@ModernCowdogTraining]

He the best and a very good teacher

[@hernanmedrano5289]

I'm glad i pulled away from that scam when i first found interest in dog training.

[@nc_mtbmedic1399]

Balanced training is the only way to go...

[@i.k.6055]

In one of these so called PO classes the trainer said that if your dog doesn't throw up on the way back, you have not used enough treats. Ugh!

[@Donkens]

Speaking with these folks. When you ask those trainers If they ever solve behavioural issues with dogs they usually reply with , ”its a genetic issue with the dog”. They say that they rather see a dog put down than being trained by folks like Cesar Milan or you. These people are really a threat to dog owners because in reality they want to take away everyones right in owning a dog. Crazy enough they usually study ethology but when It comes to them training dogs they take It from an emotional stand point, only when It comes to dogs.

[@simons1793]

So true...and that lady on youtube doing "only positive reinforcment" that can work, but only on small and "stupis" dogs, like malteserz, labradors, chihuahas maybe....and sometime not even that...when did you see her fix and help with bad behaviour on agressive german shepard, rotwailer, doberman, pitbull...these dogs are not bad but have extreme potential to really f#ck your life

[@simons1793]

@Candii Cubana nah you cant say that...hes really good but on his own way but not the best...he has something in him that makes him to easily control animals thats why he can walk like 15 animals next to him...but no where near K9 trainers who train for real obedience

[@simons1793]

@Candii Cubana he actually does, watch some of his videos...he helped many owners with dog agression, but he has his own ways of working not as ussual as K9 but they work

[@Donkens]

@Candii Cubana you got your right to your own opinion but you are kidna clueless, if there is one thing cesar suggests is structure and letting your dog know that respect and good manners equals love and rewards, bad behaviour are ignored and he got a good way of sending that signal out to dogs. Atleast with cesars way you wont develop resource guarding amongst dogs.

[@Donkens]

@@simons1793 thats why i usually only respect shieldk9, larry krohn, cesar and sometimes cabral. They post on clients dog with bad manners and behavioral issues and the dogs are happy after the owners are trained. They dont even fix small dog breeds, they are usually part of the problem with small breeds having issues, because owners are taught to reward bad behaviour with treats all the time. They are trick trainers, positive reinforxement only is good for tricks.

[@SaschKrassBass]

I'd really like a talk with you and Stonnie Dennis who seems to have a very nice "as positive as possible" attitude towards his method.

[@alxhiding]

Both masters of their craft but totally different clientele and purpose behind the training. Stonnie doesn't really seem interested in such types of dog training, but his son's interest in protection training might be a great opportunity for them to connect on a topic.

[@SaschKrassBass]

@@alxhiding I know. But you'll see those kind of dogs every now and then. And it works. It is not completely free of corrections. But still.

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

I don't understand that man's method. I can't ever seem to find a logical reason for the things he does. It just seems to me to be, "let's have fun with someone else's dog and almost let them run away because they're off lead without a recall"

[@marybaker5319]

I have to ask this my daughter dog and theirs mine should I just let her show him his boundaries with her and stop him from trying to mount her when he sees her so I just let them be themselves or interact cuz she gets really aggressive when he tries that and he wants to play rough with her and jump on her back

[@timbro71]

Sounds very logical to me mate

[@discreteloner9573]

Good content. I have long heard about the debates between positive and negative only dog training. Yours is the mix of the two that fix each other loop holes. You said it in the least bias possible that I have heard. I have heard some people who are into negative only training said that they have to make their dogs fear them so they would obey and follow the commands and regarded the dogs as just low level animals that needed to be forcefully made into submission. I do not like that. Then, I heard about positive only training that have shown some proves that dogs are capable of making their own decision, being smart, and willing to cooperate more in positive only situation - plus they can archieve the same things or more without forcing to cooperate. To me, this seems like a better way to train a dog or any other animals for that matter. Why use force when it is not neccessary, right? However, I do acknownlege that there are some down sides of positive only training as well such as the reliability for them to follow commands the time we need them to the most. Your video approaches it by stating the real world situation and not just saying how we should be kind, gentle, and love (also known as the more humane way which I think is misleading, but the explanation is long therefore I am cutting it short) toward the dogs like a positive only training. At the same time, not out right stating that you have to make the dogs fear you or torture them i.e. feed them as little as possible, let them starv so they would always give their attention to you. If you or anyone wondering if this is what some people' belief is for real - I can assure you that it is very real. I have heard someone said that with my own ears.

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

Search Michael Ellis on KZbin. His philosophy on dog training is what you're looking for. He trains as much with positive reinforcement as possible, but adds corrections where he has to.

[@smartfalcon8116]

Real stuff. That's what I call a dog trainer. Proper and genuine.

[@Harrow932]

Intro fly as fuck

[@Paulie.k]

So how do you correct your dog, I don't want to use prong or shock collars

[@thoughtcriminal5655]

Buy a Labrador then

[@susanlippy1009]

What do you wish to use? It's really not about which tool you choose to use, but rather about your consistency in expectations. Sit means sit every time. You can put them into a sit with the use of a hand on rump and chest, you can give a leash pop on a flat collar, you can use a slip lead. There are a million tools out there. All can be effective, all can be ineffective depending upon the skill of the user. He's not advocating a specific tool. He's advocating you be consistent in your expectations. Life is hard when the rules constantly change, it's unfair and confusing. It's madness. If your boss changed the expectations on your job daily, hourly how long would you be an employee before saying f off? Not long.

[@ivastipetic5211]

Great instructions here that triggers my thinking and encourage me to use what I already know before R+ only concept spread. A lot about raising kids and setting borders I have learned from cats which are mothers par exemple. Now I train a young BC after my respected and loved GSD passed away recently. Both highly energetic and inteligent dogs, but so much different in design and character. So, every dog ( or human child) in fact teaches you what training approach to take if you can "understand dogish". It is not you who knows and teaches exclusively in this unique relationship. But you are raising and leading them. On the BC part, especially for the first puppy's month in the family, I have learned a lot of new, usefull stuff from MacKannes Dog YT, but also from Zak George's. On the other hand, Zak's approach to a "problematic GSD" Moira seems so wrong, cause that bitch is a very nice typical adolescent GSD and he confuses her, didn't really get her. But she did the job simply cause it is GSD design creature - train till perfection, work till death, everything for her human partner. I am trying to get to know what is my BC's deepest desire and on what basic drive to built reliability upon. She is showing a tendency toward more independent and risky behaviour than GSD, is very obedient for the 4 months puppy but highly "creative". I have to stimulate her mentally with much more variety than perfection. So we have more "freestyling" together, more shorter interval trainings. Less practical in my old regime, but thanks to viruses I can afford it this time. May I add here that when you work with GSD or Belgians you know what machine and design they carry and you only have to follow good user manual. Can somebody advice me better on BC' s nature and drivers to become true partners ( aside from agillity and a bunch of tricks which is good for their curiosity and sensitivity, off course). Tnx

[@the-d-r]

Nice video, but how can I train my dog to behave like your dogs? Because I'm based in Europe, I can't visit you in CA. And no, I'm not one of these guys, who's only positive training the dogs. But I still don't have this kind of level of functional obedience. Some weeks ago, I reached out to you, maybe you can offer some kind of online training. Training to tell me, how I should train with my dogs to speed up the behavior / functional obedience training, but I never heard from you ;(

[@neutrino09]

If you don’t get a reply try turner and Pooch dog training. They do online training and are balanced trainers similar to this

[@ParrotVolancy]

Hey, he has an online course now! Don't know if you saw!

[@the-d-r]

@@ParrotVolancy I know, he has an online course. But currently I just can't afford it. It costs 350 CAD => about 250€. Right now, I'm moving away from Germany, so every penny counts. And I home, I can buy this course in 2 month, when everything is settled.

[@ParrotVolancy]

@@the-d-r Yeah, I'm completely broke at the moment, but I'm hoping to sign up for it as soon as I can.

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

​@@the-d-r It's difficult. I couldn't afford training courses either. The best thing for me was watching endless videos from trainers like Nate Schoemer, Michael Ellis (one of the absolute best), Miracle K9 (lesser following but HUGELY underrated, man) and yes, Shield K9 - - though I must stress: shield k9 trains protection dogs. A lot of his methods are very harsh (in my opinion). And, if you can afford even ONE lesson with a good balanced trainer, do it. It changed my life.

[@ajdaltonrn]

I don't believe some people understand the sheer amount of time a working dog spends with a handler. Far removed from the puppy who does some tricks and gets put back in a crate or backyard. Occasionally does 15-30 minutes walk without getting too sideways. The more I learn about dog training, the more I realise how little I know.

[@mike-mr1zs]

If you don't correct the dog then how is it suppose to learn ? Corrections necessary to teach the dog the behaviors you want.

[@benyukhis1924]

Very much appreciated. Are you indirectly saying that Ivan Balabanov or Michael Ellis who claim their positive reinforcement only training approach produces reliable behaviors are lying or perhaps exaggerating a bit?

[@shieldk9]

Neither of them ever said that..

[@benyukhis1924]

@@shieldk9 appreciate your response. Could be my mis-understanding of what they did say. I will confirm. I observe your dogs and appreciate the level of knowledge and experience you bring to the table. That is why I am asking, Looking for an absolute source of truth. Something that I can use to train my dogs. Personally, I never had the luck of being able to use positive reinforcement only methods and as much as I tried, in some circumstances I reverted to correcting unwanted behaviors and using compulsion...

[@bobwellington7580]

Positive only training does not work. Positive reinforcement is an important part of training, just not all on its own.

[@derrick9653]

Positive only food training, according to one trainer, was to crate and starve the dog for a couple of days so that it will work for food. No thanks...I'll just correct my mal when appropriate and keep letting her have the last bite of my hotdog. Her recall is extremely solid and her off leash manners are fantastic. Her head is currently on my foot while she naps. There was an element of security blanket as she was growing but I think that has just grown into good manners as she's grown into her own. Part of it was training and part was just taking her everywhere with me. There is a noticable difference when she wears her harness as opposed to just her collar. I used the vest to differentiate "work" time and that seems to have really sunk in.

[@marybaker5319]

Im watching your vido right now showing your two day that what he dose to her when we visit so I should let her go and not stop him from trying to play and things he a puppy to he a two year old

[@rigohook1160]

This non-issue... again? If one is good with timing and motivation, one can go a long way with positive training. But one can't go ALL the way, even the best say this. I consider Ivan Balabanov and Michael Ellies as some kind of dog training savants, but the question never occured to them, that at some point of your journey you have to add some kind of pressure to your training. You simply have to. How much varies heavily on the dog , of course. It's just, one must learn this even better than positive training. People that have the timing all wrong with giving the dog a treat, should'nt add pressure on as well. Sadly, those are the ones that do it the most. A correct punishment does'nt bother the dog at all. No one that has at one point burned his fingers on the oven, is afraid to go to the kitchen an cook some food. That is, because one knows exactly how to avoid burning in the future. Imagine if your oven would do different things everytime you use them, sometimes it would not get hot at all, sometimes only the knobs of the stove woukd get hot, the other day that thing would blow up and explode, you'd be probably very afraid of use the damn thing. Same is with punishment. If the dog knows clearly, what he has to do to avoid it in the future, that does'nt bother him at all.

[@Montemuse1]

“ Momma dog bits pup “ oh it’s correction Owner pops leash (animal abuser) people will say things to make themselves feel like a good person. But be the same people that won’t help the dog you tryin to help

[@Maximilian4th]

I just found if mines not doing sumn and iv needed to correct him it means i haven’t done enough reps to brainwash him 😂

[@thejindoman7471]

You can do enough reps to drill to the center of the Earth - you can't "brainwash" instincts out of a dog.

[@Maximilian4th]

@@thejindoman7471 i know wat ur saying but if we look at one of reasons correction works being a negative that overides that dogs drive for whatever it maybe, the same can be said for if you are able to find a reward that is greater than that drive. I didn’t find the level of correction needed being practical in public so it forced me to work on reward combined with exposure plus being mostly off leash and no e-collar i didn’t have much choice. I don’t not agree with you but whatever works for that dog with the least negatives is ideal imo. Personally the thing i think would be a game changer for petdog trainers and the general public would be understanding drive capping.

[@thejindoman7471]

@@Maximilian4th I agree with whatever works for the individual dog with the least negative, but it is also paramount to have a "safety net". I would never let any dog off leash without an e collar, unless it was a confined space like a ranch, and even then I'd be looking out - because poop happens. Drive capping is something that is done in sport and happens within the confines of a "ring"/competition space. I would not expect it to work at all times in real world scenarios. Oftentimes it is people that have a small understanding of dogs and get marginal success with their own (perhaps relatively easy to work with) pet dogs that develop a false sense of security - when some of these people (not saying it is you) fancy themselves trainers the poop can truly hit the fan (even with their own dogs). None of this is meant to throw shade, it could very well save someone's dog or keep them from a lawsuit (the other end of losing control on one's own dog is the dog could cause an accident, among other things). P.S. The idea of finding a reward that is greater than the drive is skewed. It's the intensity of the drive in a particular situation. And all it takes is one time... P.P.S. Corrections work because they appeal to the animal's primal nature and his survival system

[@MinecraftKlepacz]

😃

[@Maximilian4th]

@@thejindoman7471 im no dog trainer it just fascinates me analyzing and learning. Just from what i see of most dogs is the owners don’t even know a dog has drives. As far as im concerned maybe im missunderstanding “drive capping”but working a dog up n restraining them from something they want then adding ob on that seems like common sense, an exageration of training threw distraction. All i can say is i put many hours a day of off leash work on mine from like 12 weeks and it taught me alot threw trial and error like great i have this amount of control with food if hes been fasted for this long, or fuck if hes really over heating the ob breaks down at this point, or hes this fatigued so ob gets sloppy, etc. This is all environment dependant though, based on the dog and their temperment and what they know. Like you guys obviously do your protection training, sport or whatever which adds many more variables. Let me play devils advocate, if corrections work so well answer me this, 2 game dogs correcting each other for 6 hours learn to never fight again? 😂 or is it more complex than that and theres many variables within reward and correction such as bond, muscle memory, environment etc. I don’t care if your throwing shade stuff needs to be aired out and discussed. You say drilling till you reach the certain of the earth gets nothing well then forget the ten thousand hour rule. Again though im not completely disagreeing i dont really care purely positive or all negative its just for me and my requirements i find mostly positive works best and for it too work takes a hundred times at least more work and effort.

[@leopard6554]

All dogs problems stem from people who humanize dogs...!!! Dogs don't understand, don't rationalize and don't care...!!! They need rewards and corrections to lead a healthy life... Remember guidance is affection too...!!!

[@EgglayingRooster]

Love the content. Just an fyi though, the intros shouldn't be so long.

[@wawatchdog89]

Sheild K9s intro better then most youtubers. Plus it's pretty epic.

[@thejindoman7471]

It's true - as a matter of fact the intros should be longer 😆 #didntknowhowmuchIneededtheintrosuntiltheyhappened

[@user-qc5jw1xy5l]

The fanboy is strong in these ones

[@thejindoman7471]

@@user-qc5jw1xy5l Aren't you "clever"?! NOT. FYI, when you assume you only make an @$$ out of you 😑

[@GSPfan2112]

Pawsitive only training just sounds like Canine Communism to me.

[@lordzlomek]

Positive only training is a result of ideology being forced upon common sense and things that actually work. We should learn from experienced dog moms and not Zak George and his like.

[@rkorenek]

That's right Pawel. You never hear a Positive Only trainer talk about being Results Oriented. What you do hear, is "Training dogs is really hard" and "That dog's problems are more serious than I thought."

[@simons1793]

People this days are really stupid...i mean, if you can hit a child to put negative reinforcement and so he can be good and behave good then why the hell wouldnt i use negative reinforcment on dogs😆 bruh

[@herdingdrive]

Your knowledge of positive only training is very limited.

[@shieldk9]

So are the results.

[@herdingdrive]

@@shieldk9 because of your knowledge being so limited. Limited knowledge, limited results.

[@shieldk9]

My results.. are well documented. 😉 It's super easy..just make a channel showing what i show and people will believe. Or go back to the tricks with your border collie, the cool stories about dogs you have trained and all the smoke and mirrors.

[@herdingdrive]

@@shieldk9 you're missing the point. I didn't leave negative comments on your training videos. I'm not doubting your results. You made a video claiming that purely positive trainers don't get results and that's simply not true. What I as a trainer do with my dog or the other dogs I work with doesn't matter either. What does matter is that there are trainers achieving amazing results without the use of pain and fear. If they can do it, technically you should be able to do it, too. Maybe if you spent more time learning about how to use reward based training and less time arguing with people on the internet, you wouldn't need a shock collar. Just to make myself perfectly clear, I didn't even leave comments for you, but so people who watch this particular video and read the comments get to hear the other side. There are plenty of highly skilled dog trainers like Nando Brown, Chirag Patel, Michael Shikashio and so many others who not only train dogs successfully without aversive tools and techniques, but also fix those dogs damaged by them. So my question to you would be, if they can do it, why can't you? You use the example of having a dog walk next to you off leash with distractions for 45 minutes. Can I do that using only positive reinforcement? Sure, but it's going to be VERY labor intensive and time-consuming. I can accomplish the same thing with a leash, so I choose to use that. You choose a shock collar. How we train dogs is a choice, not a necessity.

[@shieldk9]

Your use of the words pain and fear are the usual emotional misdirection used by the force free crowd to avoid the immutable facts that exist in the real world, in theory and scientifically that i identified in this vid. You guys climb on your virtuous high horse and imply that anyone who chooses to operate within the confines of the nature simply lacks the skill and morality to put in the "time". Time for what? You imply that bribery is the way to a superior bond? Prove it. Surely your bond and that of your compatriots is so superior with your dogs that you are able to duplicate my work or go and win the IGP worlds? Yet you cannot. It turns out that bribery vs clear communication is not so conducive to superior relationships in any walk of life. None of the trainers you mentioned can do what I do because they have crippled their ability to create reliability and extinction within behaviors. They are forced to continue selling people like you the dream and exist in the world of limited results. Ironically, I am likely better at motivating a dog the vast majority of your force free crowd. Ill leave you with this. Dogs have no issues utilizing "pain and fear" as you call it to communicate with one another. Imagine how self centered you must be to believe that your feelings trump subjective reality. It makes one wonder, is it really about the dogs in the end?