Power Scaling all 82 characters in Smash Ultimate from weakest to strongest!

[@Marionic9001]

Few things I want to clarify: I admit that I am not very certain of placements of three characters in particular, and I'm still finding out new things regarding to their scaling, so don't take my word regarding them as gospel or anything. I'd really appreciate if I got more feedback regarding them in particular! Those three, as mentioned in the video, are: - Terry - Lucas - Joker Apparently, there might be crazy scaling for Terry in King of Fighters , like scaling to timeline busting and other dimensional f*ckery (dunno why Geese was presumed dead from fall damage if that’s the case but here we are). However, to my understanding, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters ect. are all different timelines and may have very different scaling. Terry in Smash is supposed to be specifically the Fatal Fury one (despite some KoF representatives in his trailer and stage???) and KoF one is the one with all the interesting scaling chains… as well as literally every feat I used for him in the video, so I guess I shouldn’t have used those…? With Lucas, I explored my gripes with him in the video, but didn’t really go into the reason why Porky & Ness’ friends logically shouldn’t scale to Universal Ness; Ness is the only one to gain the power of the universe, which is treated as this giga-amp that is supposed to be the thing to allow them to defeat Giygas, this is liteally main plot of Earthbound/Mother 2. It could be inferred that he (canonically speaking) carries the fight against Giygas ect. allowing his team to survive, till everyone's prayers defeat Giygas… or who knows, maybe Paula, Poo & Jeff with his hand-built bottlerockets are in same tier of power as Ness despite never receiving a power-up like that. Porky is iffy too if he scales to Ness (or even to Paula, Poo & Jeff for that matter), when Giygas who he was with, was likely the one carrying that fight on their end... but then again, Porky has different mech & abilities in Mother 3, so he's likely stronger than that Porky... and still can't defeat Lucas & his party, opting to go into his Absolute Safety Capsule instead. I hope you see now why it's difficult to say who's exactly relative to who. Joker is though one, like I outlined in the video. I’ve seen people equating Persona & SMT, disagreements & all the like, but nothing that definitively says if the two series’ that technically occupy same world & should share same concepts and cosmology, scale to each other or not… the thing that separates the two, at least as far as I can understand, is that Demons in SMT are entirely different to Personas utilized in, well, Persona, despite some similarity in how they're born & even in appearance. They're NOT the same. But if there is some other correlation that would cause them to scale to each other (I mean it is the SAME VERSE, right?), Joker would easily be outerversal & thus, easily the strongest character in Smash, at least for now. There’s also outerversal arguments for Persona 5 on it’s own (maybe?), but if this is consistent to rest of the Persona games is also very iffy to me & I would appreciate if an expert in Megami Tensei verse’s lore could produce some scans for me to say how it is. Also, I made a mistake on Captain Falcon's speed part, where it accidentally says Mach instead of mph. Oops.

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

Upon rewatch, I'm a bit less sure of whether or not the Double Blood Moon feat is canon, or if it's just a gameplay mechanic. Is there some in-game statement of an NPC or Zelda referring to these double blood moons? If so, I'd be satisfied.

[@Marionic9001]

@@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17 As far as I know, no there isn’t. Way back I used to argue against the feat actually, and I looked far and wide for any semblance of canonicity, but I don’t think there’s anything flat out saying it's a thing... It just kinda happens in the game, rarely and randomly and no character mentions it. Only arguments I can offer are, that there's nothing contradicting the interpretation of it, as well as Ganon being stated to be behind regular Blood Moons that some say actually speeds up or alters Moons course compared o regular movement anyway (though I’m not certain of it, despite observing the phenomena myself) and it being consistent with feats from likes of Majora.

[@justjames4]

(11:06) I absolutely love how you used that particular video as footage of an Enderman dodging arrows. I have seen it before!

[@SoftwareNeos]

I cant believe ive never seen a video like this before. Always wondered where everyone could scale to. Its really good. Thanks so much

[@Marionic9001]

No, thank you, for watching. KZbin is full of vids with people just going ”I could prolly beat Luigi in fight because he coward” ”Snake is just human lol” or ”FE characters are just humans w swords right”, that combined with genuine interest on the subject made me want to make this video… hopefully it makes even handful of people appreciate feats and stories of some of these characters.

[@SoftwareNeos]

​@@Marionic9001it definitely has done that with me friend. So much i finally have a good idea for vs battle. Goddess of Explosions Vs Pauletena And i couldnt have done it without you friend.

[@Wahlord4Ssb]

This and relaxalax’s videos are the best ones on the topic, I don’t know which is better

[@sptflcrw8583]

​@@Wahlord4Ssbrelaxalex's one sucks lol

[@Neon2hu]

Very nice video. I was expecting Sora to get lowballed as the scaling community tends to do to him, but just as with your Fate videos, you MASSIVELY exceeded my expectations with just how well you know what you're talking about.

[@CuteRedPanda64]

I think Miis are kinda close to Mario, considering they can keep up with them in sports, plus they have crazy durability, they can travel to planets in seconds, they battle demon lords, and have they divine powers. Plus they can be anything they want, like ninjas, super heroes, chefs, etc

[@hellzonefirebrigade3056]

Also just an FYI sonic actually scales to complex Multiversal super at the lowest. And ultra, hyper and Excalibur forms all scale even higher

[@SonicTheCutehog]

I wouldn't include Smash when factoring in R.O.B.'s canonical powers, so he would be the weakest character with his most "powerful" outing being in Mario Kart DS.

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

Dang this scaling is better than Smash Bracket, kinda cool to see Inkling has potential town level durability feats in Splatoon 3. Heck, with Mr Grizz, the verse has Planetary feats

[@justjames4]

I finished watching this all, and wow, this video must have taken a lot of work to make! Great job. While I don't agree with all the details, all the details are at least reasonable, and it is still very impressive that you found all that evidence in a vast amount of different medias. 👍 There is one aspect that might have been a big oversight though. When using the Super Smash Bros. iteration of R.O.B., it would've made sense to me for you to scale his reaction and combat speed to the Warp Star. (Not as fast as it, but almost as fast.) With good timing, he can dodge the Warp Star slamming down on him, which went faster than Galeem's light that absorbed a galaxy in seconds. This is consistent to the opening cutscene of World of Light, where characters block the light before it reaches them although they get negated and where Bayonetta kind of dodges the light a bit. If you're aware of this interpretation, I'm curious about why you didn't use it.

[@Marionic9001]

Thanks, I appreciate your words. It has been... a journey. To clarify about R.O.B. I was only using his abilities from Smash (abilities that only originate & appear there and nowhere else, thus why I said I cheated), not their scaling per say. Only facts I drew from Smash were the facts that they can use beams and flight ect. and only conclusion about their AP I made was based on the bare min. estimation on his beams, not on any scaling that Smash might have for them. That’s all. Your reasoning for the Light beams sounds about right, though alternative interpretation I subscribe to, is that they get progressively faster as they travel further, evident by how Link & Samus react to few, while later characters are one-shot, & most importantly, when the light consumes World of Trophies’ Planet & solar system, it takes about 6 seconds, while when it expands to rest of the Galaxy/Universe & beyond it takes only about 4, despite astronomically greater distance.

[@justjames4]

@@Marionic9001 You're welcome! Your interpretation works too I suppose. Thanks for clarifying.

[@numbug1234]

I'd like to think that I'm pretty knowledgeable on Sonic and Kingdom Hearts, so lemme address how I feel about those. SONIC The multi-solar system level feat from Emerl shouldn't scale to the cast, as both Emerl and Tails confirm that the power Emerl absorbed is too much to contain. Erazor Djinn had only absorbed up to half of the world at the time he fought Sonic. However, Erazor Djinn needed the seven world rings to complete his plan and had coerced Sonic into collecting them. Immediately after the fight he fled behind a door that needed the world rings to open, and then went about sacrificing Sonic, fully confident that a single shot would be enough (with Sonic only surviving because he had wished for Shahra to do what she truly felt was right, which was to take the shot for him). In addition, in Sonic Runners, Erazor Djinn (without half of the universe's power) was split up into 1,000 pieces, with Sonic needing help in order to defeat an Erazor Djinn comprised out of 5 pieces of those Erazor Djinns, and later coming across a Super Erazor Djinn comprised of 100 pieces of Erazor Djinn, which required they use their own Super Erazor Djinn to combat. As for Dark Queen, Sonic was consistently shown as being unable to harm her in base form, with the cast repeatedly insisting that fighting her was hopeless. Even as Excalibur Sonic, he is still injured by her and was injuring her without one-shotting her with his swings. Base Sonic being able to take hits at all should be considered an outlier, due to not being consistent with his powered up Excalibur Sonic who could contend 1 on 1. The most consistent feats for base form Sonic would be scaling to the Wisps. He's able to harm the Egg Nega Wisps, which uses the energy stored from wisps for its attacks, take hits from the Egg Nega Wisp's Wisp-powered attacks, and being able to harm Infinite and the Death Egg Robot (Sonic Forces), who could also take hits from the Avatar's Wispons, which are weapons based on the Wisps' powers. This is consistent with Forces confirming that Sonic passively gets stronger overtime, something that was already implied by Generations. How strong is a Wisp? Well, Void Wisp (a Nega Wisp drained of its energy, who should logistically be weaker than a regular Wisp as a result) was able to provide enough energy to create a black hole at Star level. vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Sonic_Colors_black_hole_feat_2 In contrast, I disagree with dismissing fighting Solaris as an outlier, as it was consistently presented that they absolutely required Super Sonic in order to defeat it. Solaris, meanwhile should scale to at minimum billions of times universal and at maximum 4th-dimensional universal (due to being able to wipe out the entire Sonic the Hedgehog multiverse, which includes Maginaryworld, which creates and contains universe-sized dreams for every single living being in the entire multiverse, and is itself a 4th-dimensional location). Here's a blog post that phrases the Maginaryworld argument far better than I'd be able to in a KZbin comment (at least without devoting an entire comment exclusively to it) vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ShakeResounding/2-B_Maginaryworld Super Sonic used 1/3rd of the Chaos Emeralds' infinite power in order to achieve this feat (owing to achieving it alongside Super Shadow and Super Silver), when 100% of the Chaos Emeralds' infinite power was required to merely awaken Dark Gaia (who then cracked the planet, as confirmed by Professor Pickle), where later Super Sonic was able to fight Perfect Dark Gaia alongside Light Gaia, and was able to harm and be harmed by it. SORA Sora shouldn't scale to Kingdom Hearts. KH1 Ansem never managed to absorb the Kingdom Hearts of all Worlds, and KH2 Xemnas's Kingdom Hearts of all men was ruined before he had a chance to absorb any power from it (making his strength at the end of that game a big ol' ???). The X-Blade, meanwhile, doesn't have any feats that actually scale its power to Kingdom Hearts, and it summoning Kingdom Hearts is simply a side ability it has. In addition, while the crew was able to delay Kingdom Hearts, they're entirely incapable of stopping it entirely, relying on Sora defeating X-Blade Xehanort to do so. In fact, the fact that Kingdom Hearts is presented as capable of wiping literally the entire Kingdom Hearts multiverse all on its own supports the fact that none of the cast should be able to scale to it. I'm sure there's a solid Universe scaling somewhere, but at absolute bare minimum Sora would still be able to scale to Zeus's star moving feat, which was scaled to multi-solar system level, due to Sora routinely able to defeat Hercules and the Titans, where two Titans were able to trap Zeus and Hercules was able to free him, and in KH3 a weakened Sora felt convinced to continue to help alongside Hercules ever after he told them he had to go on alone due to the True Organisation 13's involvement, implying the True Organisation 13 members as superior in strength. vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Everlasting/Kingdom_Hearts_calc_transfer:_The_power_of_Kingdom_Hearts_and_Zeus%27_TK

[@Marionic9001]

Yeah, Emerl was getting overwhelmed by all the power he had copied (powers of every caracter + Egg Blaster + those Solar Systems being destroyed), and was breaking down, but, that’s exactly the point… he DID have all that power & Sonic fought him & bodied him in under 30 seconds. BTW, Tails actually says that Emerl is unstable mentally as he went back to original programming, not physically… Eggman tried to imprint Emerl to him by making him look at strong energy, but he was overwhelmed mentally by taking in so much at once & defaulted to killing everything. Funny enough, Tails says beating him is only possible via damaging him heavily… like you would do to any other fighter. Erazor Djinn had erased 100 of the 1001 of the Arabian Nights actually, he did this over long period & could’ve gone on to destroy the rest, the World Rings were to recreate them in his image. There’s nothing that indicates that Sonic didn’t beat him fair & square in Secret Rings, Erazor literally falls to ground in a heap huffing & puffing, saying that this is impossible, then makes his escape. He was never gonna one-shot Sonic, he was gonna use him as magic sacrifice that the Rings required, but they ended up taking Shahra instead as she got on the way. Runners Erazor literally makes no sense whatsoever as it’s 1000 fragments of base Erazor Sonic beat already, then fused back into Erazor that’s stronger than that. I guess just more powerful now than in the Secret Rings. Only way it makes sense is if he retained (at least) some of his World Rings amp. Yes, Sonic couldn’t do anything to Dark Queen, but he still tanked her attacks like no tomorrow. Solaris is outlier. Going from fighting foes that are not even universal to consistently fighting multi-universal people (and sometimes needing help for that) does not make you timeline let alone 4D level on consistent basis. There's this one crazy feat of them 100% certain doing that, I’m not denying it, but it contradicts the rest of the feats. Same as Batman fighting universe-level JLA members or their enemies evenly in one comic & then going back to Gotham to consistently get shot by muggers. You bring up Maginary World as if it was consistent with Solaris, when all that stuff relates to base form characters you claimed are only about Black Hole/Star Level level… Sora definitely scales to True Kingdom Hearts. I never said anything about Ansem or Xemnas using KH’s in their games, dunno where you got that from, but I pretty explicitly outlined how Xehanort used True KH at the end of 3… he has the X-Blade that’s key that controls it’s power & starts to use it to nuke all reality, but then Guardians of Light suppress the Kingdom Hearts, while Sora goes to fight Xehanort, who uses the f*cking X-Blade & still gets bodied by Sora. Effecting it means they’re on same dimension. Beating someone who controls it’s power means Sora is on that dimension. Obviously I’m not saying KH < Sora or anything. Zeus is fodder of KH verse.

[@numbug1234]

@@Marionic9001 Wall of text incoming, I just wanted to address every point in a single comment. Sonic Battle: (English version used because I didn't find a translation of the Japanese version from my look) kzbin.info/www/bejne/raLJqYmfdq6csNE Emerl: Power... Overflowing... Can't hold it in... Can't hold it in... Sonic... Shadow... Help... In such pain... Mom... It hurts... The pain... kzbin.info/www/bejne/raLJqYmfdq6csNE Tails: Sonic!! Can you hear me?! Emerl has absorbed too much energy and has surpassed his limits! He's highly unstable right now! If you can inflict a great amount of damage on him, you'll put a stop to it! But, Emerl... will probably be destroyed... He won't be able to contain the energy that he's absorbed within his body... Both Emerl and Tails make it perfectly clear that Emerl's literally incapable of holding the power inside of his body. This, coupled with the fact that we never actually see Emerl fire the Final Egg Blaster to confirm if he can survive the energy kickback or not, and the fact that it takes a full minute for him to charge it (which he's doing WHILE fighting Sonic), means that every indication is that Emerl doesn't properly scale to the Final Egg Blaster, and that Sonic therefore doesn't scale either. --- Sonic & the Secret Rings: (Japanese version used thanks to translated subtitles) kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima1d4ObbsiNlcU Erazor Djinn: Listen up. Before that fire arrow disappears, go look for the 7 World Rings. If you do not... Sonic: ?! Erazor Djinn: Your life is forfeit. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima1d4ObbsiNlcU Erazor Djinn: I have already harvested half of the world's pages. Shahra: That's why you were able to summon that genie... Erazor Djinn: I shall let this ifrit burn the remaining pages. You, the blue sewer rat. Are you collecting the 7 Rings? Sonic: Hey now, I'm no sewer rat. I'm a HEDGE-HOG! Erazor Djinn: That doesn't change the fact you are a filthy, lowly creature... Besides... you are better off hurrying it up. Sonic: Tch! Erazor Djinn: For half your life has been cut away... kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima1d4ObbsiNlcU Sonic: I'm about to run out of gas here. Fill me up, will ya. Erazor Djinn: Did you collect the 7 World Rings? Sonic: Well, what do you think? Why not go check if you're so inclined. Erazor Djinn: Then... I'll accomplish that by cutting you up! Sonic: Oh yeah?! I'd like to see you try! kzbin.info/www/bejne/anSUeYKnj9V1ptU Erazor Djinn: [screams] I... I can't be stopped here...! Sonic: This is as far as you go, Erazor! You've lost! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima1d4ObbsiNlcU Erazor Djinn: Prayers. Sadness. Rage. Hatred. Joy. Pleasure. Wishes. The 7 hearts that create stories. These... are the 7 World Rings that tie this world's pages! Sonic: ...!! Erazor Djinn: "However, their collector shall be offered up in sacrifice as the key to control all." Become my sacrifice, blue hedgehog! kzbin.info/www/bejne/ima1d4ObbsiNlcU Grahh, this is not over. I'll keep going back to life. There is no death for me. I shall not vanish. [laughs] All of these scenes are to build up context. Erazor Djinn has already absorbed half of the universe, and is fully aware that Sonic is going to die from the flame no matter what. In addition, he needs Sonic to have all of the World Rings in order to sacrifice him off. And when he's defeated in the first fight, he retreats behind a door that needs the 7 World Rings to open, whereupon he immediately attempts to sacrifice Sonic with full confidence of a one shot (and with no indication of a power amp from the World Rings), only getting foiled when Shahra leaps in the way. Sonic himself couldn't even do anything besides closing his eyes. So between the context of needing to confirm Sonic has the world rings, the cutscene displaying him as being capable of one-shotting and blitzing Sonic, the pre-existing knowledge that Sonic's literally on a time limit anyways, and Erazor Djinn's immortality, there's plenty of evidence supporting the idea that Erazor Djinn was not using his full power against Sonic, even with him losing. --- Sonic & the Black Knight: (Japanese version used thanks to translated subtitles) kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6LIc6SLos5jbZo Merlina: An ideal world everyone dreamed of. The creation of an eternal, undying kingdom... Sonic: Stop! What good is a world that goes on forever?! Merlina: My sorrow at its ruin runs deeper than the abyss of the underworld... Try to understand that. Sonic: Well, I don't want to! [attacks, only for his attack to be deflected and getting knocked back] Merlina: Your efforts are futile. Sonic: [attacks again, getting deflected and knocked back again] Darn! [Merlina summons a ghostly knight thing and attacks with it] Caliburn: Sonic! Sonic: Caliburn! Caliburn: Fool! I told you not to look away for this long! [The moment Merlina swings her arm down, the ghostly knight thing cuts through Caliburn without issue, when it was previously locked in a sword hold with Sonic and Caliburn visibly struggling against it] Sonic: [yells] Merlina: Let us end this. [Sonic gets beat up] Sir Percival: Sir Sonic! You've done enough! Sir Lancelot: Stop it, Sonic! There's no point in continuing! Sonic: A knight... will never flee the foe before him... right? [Sonic gets beat up again] Sir Gawain: You fool! This no longer has anything to do with chivalry! Get out of there! Please... run! Sonic gets injured by the mere act of Merlina blocking his attack, and Merlina's stated goal is to create an everlasting kingdom so as to avert the disaster of Camelot going into ruin. Sure, Sonic takes some attacks, but he's injured by the mere act of attempting to harm her, unable to break a sword lock, which Merlina efforts breaks through the moment she decides to, and literally every present member of the Knights of the Round Table is completely insistent that Sonic has absolutely no chance of winning. Not to mention that Merlina doesn't block off the chance of fleeing, and the fact that after the fight she harbors no ill will towards Sonic. This should be far more than enough to label this as an outlier, especially given that Sonic's offensive abilities (both sword and melee) should still scale to each other, due to fighting the likes of Sir Lancelot, Sir Gawain, Sir Percival, Eggman's mechs, Shadow, and etc. --- Sonic the Hedgehog (2006): (Japanese cutscenes are used due to an available translation) kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4GwYqBqeL17r5I Mephiles: Now, Chaos Emerald! Raise the curtain for our last show! kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4GwYqBqeL17r5I Silver: No. I won't give up, no matter what. If you say he exists in the past, present, and future, I'll destroy them all at once!! Shadow: Certainly... It might have been possible. If [Sonic] was still alive. Amy: Sonic! Soniiiic! *Sobs* Elise: Sonic... Silver: What's wrong? Elise: I feel... Sonic's wind! He isn't gone yet...! Elise: If we act now, I am sure we can make it in time! Silver: That's right. We'll call him back by using the Chaos Emeralds' power! They can summon a miracle by turning thoughts into power. You can do it! Elise: Me...!? Silver: You were the vessel that was used to seal Iblis. Catching Sonic's soul should be easy for you! Elise: [nods] I... I will do it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qX2xp3p3gpt3mNE First, here is evidence that the Chaos Emeralds should scale regardless, as they're being used for the express purpose of fusing Mephiles and Iblis back together. Then, evidence that Sonic's being alive was considered a requirement to stand a chance against Solaris, despite both Shadow and Silver being present (two others who can also use their power to a similar extent). And in the fight itself, all three are able to harm and take hits from Solaris, and are never shown needing to syncronise their attacks to harm it. Also, I literally only brought up Maginaryworld so as to express the sheer size of the Sonic the Hedgehog multiverse. Solaris destroying every single timeline and time itself would logically extend to every single universe that has time in it, regardless of dimensional scale. --- Kingdom Hearts ... I was going to go through the same links for Kingdom Hearts, but I forgot just how many cutscenes there are and just how many of them are there. I'm just not going to sit through that, my apologies. I'll still link one video though, since I did look through that one (it's in English as I do not know where any Japanese translations are) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJyxcpSneJaFnqs Regardless, even just in the context of Kingdom Hearts 3 (where the true X-Blade was shown), it's stated that Xehanort "controls" Kingdom Hearts via the X-Blade, not that the X-Blade is literally as powerful as Kingdom Hearts. The supporting Keybladers all keep Kingdom Hearts closed, yes, but they're also not holding it back from wiping out the multiverse, rather just keeping it from opening up, and it's pointed out that they're not able to do so forever. Last but not least, when Sora volunteers to fight Xehanort he says verbatim that Kingdom Hearts is a much bigger threat, directly confirming that even with the X-Blade, Xehanort is not AS strong as Kingdom Hearts is. Not to mention that despite all of that, even after his fight against Sora, Kingdom Hearts has not yet awoken to nuke all of reality. Xehanort still has a chance, however slim, to delay things until Kingdom Hearts arrives, and instead chooses to accept his defeat and hand over the X-Blade. Plus, since we can clearly agree that KH =/= Sora, you'd have to find a tangible amount to how far Sora would in fact scale. Zeus is the fodder of the KH-verse, I agree. Notice how I said that's the bare minimum Sora could go and that there's probably still a universal scaling somewhere? Yeah, I'm not saying Sora is specifically at star level, rather that's the absolute lowest one could get without some fucking blatant lowballing. ... I could be wrong, but I think this is the single longest comment I've ever typed, lmao.

[@Dumbo-zx7oc]

@@numbug1234welp no because worlds are stated to be There own universe since in Japanese every time they talk about a world there refer to it as universe only in the English translation is it called a world. sora was stated by nomura when he used the power waking he erased the universe he was defeated in which defies fate itself he then is able exist in quadratum which nomura states quadratum sees the whole KH verse as fiction not to mention how he was able to move in the realm of darkness where time dosent exist which breaks the whole speed= time also the weakest heartless the small ones are stated to be able to destroy a world which is it on universe anyways sora extermely strong you can even scale him to outer since he can exist on plane where he’s seen as fiction which would put him above the two higher beings that made the x blade and this isn’t even a new thing aqua D-link was stated to be able to destroy the Xblade before it was shattered making the guardians of light at least comparable to xehanort amped with the xblade sora was able to defeat him also xehanort was stated by his younger self to have transdeded time in DDD so it’s not inconsistent and I want to remind you the sora that fought the titans in kh3 was stated to have lost of all his powers to the point Pete thought he could beat him Zeus who is consolation level making base sora consolation level because he defeated all the titans at once also fighting the tornado titan by himself for sonic it honestly depends on which version your using if Archie sonic than yeah he’s a lot scaling proving his multiversal+

[@jasomega2446]

Impressive List!

[@Marionic9001]

Thanks! It took some time to put together.

[@infernal9505]

Very good video here. Appreciate the effort with this. I do actually have some theories on G&W, and how his placement COULD be higher. I noticed you mentioned his Octopus form as one of the main factors in his low but understandable placement. In his Game and Watch consoles, everything there looks like him. And my theory (a bit of a long-shot tbh) is that everything in a Game and Watch console, is just another Mr./Mrs. game and watch or possibly the same exact one. This includes buildings, ocean, fish, food, houses, stuff you would think is inanimate, might just be him. If not, he honestly is a mostly normal guy with superhuman speed, like you said, with a bit of transforming on the side. Edit: By anything inanimate, I mean anything inanimate in his games. Also he wouldn't move up much whatsoever

[@opadrip]

Donald can thlam his penith and solo your favorite verse confirmed.

[@Eficiente_VSB]

Many things wrong here, but it was fun to watch.

[@firelizardryko]

One thing I wanna mention about Red and his Pokemon is that they aren't your standard mons. Red has defeated Mewtwo and if you wanna use his lore as well then you can use Pokemon Masters and get him to infinite multiversal by scaling above the gen 4 and 7 trainers. Red doesn't appear in the anime either and his mons consistently scale above most in the series already so treating them as basic mons just doesn't work. Great video still, I know it's a massive task to scale all of these characters with their many feats and statements. Also Joker has a lot of consistent outerversal scaling. There's is a lot of things you can use such as the archetypes argument you mentioned. I think the wiki in vsbattles should be up to date with the current Joker scaling.

[@Marionic9001]

"One thing I wanna mention about Red and his Pokemon is that they aren't your standard mons. Red has defeated Mewtwo and if you wanna use his lore as well then you can use Pokemon Masters and get him to infinite multiversal by scaling above the gen 4 and 7 trainers. Red doesn't appear in the anime either and his mons consistently scale above most in the series already so treating them as basic mons just doesn't work." - I mean, I guess that could be argued for Smash…? Though he wouldn’t be on that level consistently maybe, considering him scaling to Gen 4 & 5 ect. is really only in Pokemon Masters (?), and Pokemon Adventures, Origins & Red wouldn’t be on that level…? Mewtwo thing, sure. However, even saying that Pkmn Trainer in Smash is Red is also bit... questionable... like, in Brawl he just captures his Pokemon for the first time seemingly, only having Squartle in the beginning, so if it's Red, this is definitely NOT a team he usually has & wouldn’t have that high of a scaling/lore, if it’s the same character at all…? The design is def same, but I think Nintendo was trying to portray a generic Pkmn trainer instead of specific character… ya know, how Brawl’s story handled the character makes me think that Pkmn in Smash in general are just ”random, standard versions of Pokemon that can be found in games ect randomly” & not a specific ones. I could be wrong though. "Also Joker has a lot of consistent outerversal scaling. I think the wiki in vsbattles should be up to date with the current Joker scaling. " - I checked the wiki, and all I see is scaling to Megami Tensei characters (which are outer, obviously), but I don’t see anything on the site explaining why the two should scale or be treated as he same…? I understand that they technically occupy same verse & have shared concepts and such… but the gods Persona peeps fight are not SMT demons, they are personas of them, right!? So I don’t get why some people equate them, is there statements that says that they are same beings (since to my understanding, they have completely different realms of origins & lore), or how the cosmological place Persona series occupies (Mentalscapes ect) scales in comparison to SMT's larger worldmap? And is it even consistent for ALL Persona games (not just 5) to be on this level, since they share same concepts & some characters? I’m clueless to how this works to say the very least. I’ve seen so many threads, videos ect while researching Joker & Persona verse in general, but I’ve yet to encounter definitive word of god on if SMT = persona, or if Outerversal scaling is okay for al Persona games. If you happen to know, I would really appreciate some cliffnotes, since Vsbattle certainly isn’t elaborating. Glad you liked the video.

[@firelizardryko]

@@Marionic9001 if we use Origins Red then he gets to planetary at bare minimum. With Adventures you do get consistent infinite multiversal since he scales to the previously mentioned Gen 4 and 7 trainers who also appear in the manga and fight the creation trio and Ultra Necrozma. These same feats and statements of Red being the strongest are in canon and as such apply as they would for Masters. As for Brawl Red you could argue since the Pokémon are within Smash they would have to scale to the characters around which would be high outer back scaling off of Brawl Mario as a base. Based off of all of Red’s lore and feats he should comfortably be infinite multiversal with immeasurable speed. As for the persona scaling. I don’t think SMT = Persona. I think SMT scales massively above it in fact. One good way to start scaling Persona is by using the archetypes argument. The Phantom Thieves are apart of archetypes that exist beyond dimensionality. If I remember correctly we are told that every protagonist group is connected in that sense in Persona 1 or 2. There’s also platonic concepts that you can argue for high outer scaling. Like Kamoshidaman being justice incarnate in Kamo City for example. Thank you for replying, I appreciate having this conversation to clear things a bit more 🙏

[@Marionic9001]

@@firelizardryko I’d argue still the thing about Pkmn Trainer just representing generic Trainer & his Pokemon being regular mons meant to be reflective of all Pokemons of said species & not any specific ones. But if we were to accept that Pkmn Trainer in Smash is just Red, and further grant him that his 3 Pokemon scale to ones he’s actually owned in lore (which is not the case in Brawl), sure, he has crazy scaling chains & potentially is at those multiversal levels if we go by my logic of compositing Pokemon characters for the purposes of this video, I’ll admit that. It’s just bit iffy to use that is all. Funnily enough though, compositing Red specifically makes him harder to scale, unlike Mewtwo & standard mons, as each iteration scales pretty differently, (For example, Adventures Red couldn’t beat Mewtwo in straight fight, but had to catch him via perfect strategy & Master Ball, while Origins Red overpowered his Mewtwo via Mega Charizard & then Master Balled ect ect ect), which kinda mucks with the point of why I composited in the first place. "you could argue since the Pokémon are within Smash they would have to scale to the characters around which would be high outer back scaling off of Brawl Mario as a base" - What are you referring to with this? What outer feats does Brawl (Mario pecifically) have? "I don’t think SMT = Persona. I think SMT scales massively above it in fact." - I thought as much too, but the VsBattles wiki you pointed me towards to in order to give me some outer Persona 5 scaling, specifically only used SMT feats & then said SMT = Persona (though again, I couldn’t find their reasonings to why that would be). "One good way to start scaling Persona is by using the archetypes argument. The Phantom Thieves are apart of archetypes that exist beyond dimensionality." - Are the archetypes stated to be beyond dimensionality though? Archetype can mean lot of things you know, that’s why I said it’s not necessarily outer in the video. If I could just have a scan… There is platonic gun in Persona 5 I think, so if the two statements support each other, It’s probably outerversal then. "If I remember correctly we are told that every protagonist group is connected in that sense in Persona 1 or 2." - Where is this from? is there some crossover between the protagonist groups? Persona (and Megami Tensei in general) are franchises that I know only the basics of & regrettably, am just now getting into, so it is pretty unknown territory for me as a whole. Thanks for responding, I would really appreciate if you could provide a link or two to sources to that archetype statement specifically (if one exists).

[@firelizardryko]

@@Marionic9001 I don't know if you got my other reply but just in case I'll leave this here if it did not send properly. I think for making Red composite you just grab his best feats from each iteration since Red's best iteration literally doesn't fold in any of the ways his others have. He's actually insane since he scales above Arceus' avatar because of Legends Arceus being a thing now. I think most versions of Red do sit comfortably around multi+ with some weaker versions being planetary-solar system. Mario has outerversal scaling easily since he does have his feats and stuff from previous titles like Super Mario Galaxy 2 or Thousand Year Door for example. At worst it's like universal+ but it should easily get him into Outer. Wiki folded, Im sorry about that man. I didn't realize they had changed it since I looked back. I'll grab you some scans for Persona. Thank you for replying and I hope any of this helps you. The persona stuff I mentioned in the previous reply works because all the games are connected to each other. Surpassing Dimensionality: imgur.com/a/BwhYEzi Platonic concepts and archetype in Persona: imgur.com/a/U9Qxrsk

[@Marionic9001]

@@firelizardryko "I think for making Red composite you just grab his best feats from each iteration since Red's best iteration literally doesn't fold in any of the ways his others have." - Yes, but the point of compositing (for this specific video I mean) was to show more consistency between Pokemon feats across all media. "Mario has outerversal scaling easily since he does have his feats and stuff from previous titles like Super Mario Galaxy 2 or Thousand Year Door for example." - Wut. What in the world are you talking about? Outerversal feats in Galaxy 2 and TTYD…? I’ve never heard of that before. Now this got me interested, what feats could you be referring to? Only thing I can name from entire Mario franchise as a whole that could even remotely be interpreted as maybe being outer would come from Super Paper Mario…? The first link, the one with outerversal stuff… is this really from a Persona game? Since I tried googling & the characters mentioned here are from Devil Survivor games… definitively a SMT game. Umm, how does this relate to Persona exactly? Is the realm they’re talking about connected or smth? The second link's first pic (one with Philemon) has nothing to do with anything and rest just say that there are infinite amount of different archetypes & that these archetypes follow Jungian philosophy (which as far as I understand goes up to conceptual, not platonic?). So, um, only the second one had anything outerversal and I’m not exactly following how that pertains to Persona… did you post the right links or am I just not getting something?

[@HarrisonOnStage]

I love the video and I agree with most of the list even though there is one thing that I think could be changed and unsurprisingly it's Steve. Though it may not be necessary easy to pull off Steve can get a shulker box full of Enchanted Golden apples which in old version was created by 8 gold block. Each gold block 19.3 metric tons. Times 8 equals one enchanted golden apple. Multiple that by 64 and you have a single stack. Multiple that by 27 and you have a single shulker box full of Enchanted Golden apples. Steve can hold 37 shulker boxes in his inventory completely full. This tells us Steve can hold 9,871,718.4 metric tons. That's excluding any armour. Yet Steve can still sprint. Which is ironically pretty average for humans at 21 mph. This may also be higher since Minecraft's gravity is considered similar to Jupiters by some. Regardless the point I'm trying to say is even though Steve isn't fast. He is strong. I think he should be only a couple places higher because honestly even with creative, Steve isn't in the top 50 though I'd say just behind or in front of the Pokemon. It's your call where it is though and I respect that you made the video. Thx again sorry about this lengthy answer lol.

[@redmhonsterz]

I only have one opinion on this and it's that the mario characters are ranked too low due to underestimation because its scaled that mario and other characters have universal strength and mario is actually scaled to possibly even be faster than sonic. mario characters have crazy durability and even crazier how luigis stats are like 2x of Mario's, they're ranked way too low and they are (especially Mario and Luigi) above Sonic's and other characters' level

[@redmhonsterz]

ALSO KIRBY, he's destroyed universes before and defeated gods, can quite literally inhale anyone and gain their abilities. which would make him even more powerful, and all this while being a toddler means something, kirby is also underranked here

[@yucatancallejero]

Great video. I agree with almost everything, i think Sonic should be a bit higher, but it's really good. When is your next video coming out?

[@Marionic9001]

Just dropped a quick Fate video. In regards to Power Scaling, Xenoblade Chronicles will be next on the list, but that will probably come out waay later into the year.

[@kingkai1.0.0]

@@Marionic9001 I think Steve should be ranked to at least county lvl because of how much he can carry. If he has a full inventory of shulkers fulled with stacks of diamond block weighs 2B+

[@That_Black_Nerd]

This is a cool video idea

[@pointblank8060]

Nice video bro would you ever consider powerscaling persona characters

[@padriazozzriaorizifian8672]

Throughout the early parts I was waiting for Ice Climbers. Then I realised at Min Min (74) that you're probably gonna scale their speed to Meta Knight because of that scene from Brawl, and Meta Knight scales to Kirby and Kirby's absurd. Right? Eh, these two icy kids are still chill and quite powerful for a Retro rep. EDIT: literally the exact next characters. What do you know. I'm fine with that. Makes sense. EDIT 2: why haven't the Belmonts appeared yet. How are they more powerful than the Metroids. EDIT 3: 53:58 Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann reference!! EDIT 4: Okay, Kirby gang's numbers 5-3, Shulk is in the top 2 alongside?? oh right i forgor Sora. Kingdom Hearts lore. Bottom Text. EDIT FIVE: and yet Shulk beats Sora. Y'Know what? That's perfect. fine.

[@thesilentshadow1256]

I realize now I backed out on our debate more than a year ago. An update on that, even months before our debate had ended I was dedicating myself to a new ruleset that escentially throws powerscaling out the window, and relies off of direct feats under a much more strict ruleset with (in my opinion) a much more logical way of handling fictional characters that better represents developer's intent. Because of that this kind of powerscaling left my mind. This ruleset is actually frowned apon by many, (most of those people never even have read the actual ruleset itself). This ruleset is the Smashbracket ruleset. You may or may not have heard of them. Wish you well!! and if you ever want to continue our debate i'd love too, but would much rather do it in the new ruleset iv'e made myself familiar with. I think it would provide much more structure to our debating and we would have very solid guidlines to go off of. If you're interested let me know! Edit: It is probably much more strict than you would first think!! also, I never could quite articulate why Samus didn't have combat speed, because I didn't know how to calculate it, but now, I do, quite simply put it makes a whole lot more sense why she doesn't have it.

[@Marionic9001]

Long time hearing from you, hope you liked the video. New ruleset huh… while authorial intent is generally bad gauge, due to interpretation of ones work being out of ones hands when it enters public (death of the author), the interpretation of the text that in the way that it stays logically consistent in regards to power scaling being far more important, it can still be helpful when something in the story isn’t clear cut & interpretations drawn from it are not based on any prior consistency. Feats and scaling are both needed to create better picture of consistency. At least from objective stand point. Author intent is just thing that can be used to reinforce/deflate ones point "This ruleset is the Smash bracket ruleset." - Ho, that old ruin… I’ve only seen few episodes in hopes to learn something new, but they were incredibly reductive on the analysis front, though animations were competently done, but hardly indicative of the information presented in analysis part (a problem for many vs animators really) But, sure, we can debate again if you want to, though I’m again working on 2 videos & a day job, so again, my response time will vary greatly. New rules are fine to use too, if we establish clear limits to what can & can be used (for example, if some character has established durability, like being able to tank universe exploding ect. and then the character we are actually talking about can damage them, with no contradicting scaling to that feat, is that kind of feat ok, or is it scaling? Where is the line drawn), would bring some fresh takes I’d imagine… though still about the same characters?

[@McRoni51]

A few corrections with Olimar He's durable enough to recist crushing and multiple falling boulders The 100 Pikmin limit it's just a game mechanic the short movies had confirmed he can have more than that White Pikmin can throw acid that can melt metal in a few seconds Even tho he's small with a well prepared army of white Pikmin he can take down an adult human

[@Marionic9001]

Probably yes to be fair, but I’d argue that Pikmins would get swept by peak human’s speed & range in a combat scenario where they are aware of each other. But maybe not.

[@melvacaoyona-ollosa278]

​​@@Marionic9001just let olimar command 1000 winged pikmin to carry 1000 white pikmin in the air and they will start spewing acid at you and surely he will be a menacing foe to deal with.

[@robiihsan4788]

Finally someone who not lowballing kingdom heart verse

[@hellzonefirebrigade3056]

And Sonic's speed is actually Immeasurable as proven not only in Generations and forces but even as far back as classic, where it was acknowledged sonic was using his speed to travel back and forth in time. Also as of Forces he canonically gets stronger by the second and in an interview with the creators, when asked for his top speed, they laughed and outright said he doesn't have a top speed that he gets faster by the second. So Immeasurable may even be a low-ball on his speed atm

[@lop3938]

I think they were probably joking around…Sonic has proven many time his speed as a limit even Eggman stated that in Frontiers.

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

@@lop3938 But it doesn't matter if they were joking or not. Running backwards in time is literally a feat Sonic has in the games, not some mere speculative statement by game developers. And what Eggman has to say about it in one game doesn't matter if he ends up being wrong.

[@MinecraftBenYT]

Steve should be number one

[@Maskman8547]

Nah

[@MinecraftBenYT]

@@Maskman8547 yeah

[@glitch-xega]

Fantastic video I agree with almost all of it besides mabye Fire Emblem characters but that's because of how weird some fire emblem scaling can be so besides that great video that I can use as proof to anyone who says "but can they beat Goku?" because yes, Kirby can beat Goku. Edit: Did like some more research on Fire Emblem and I'm more confused because you can get them from Continental to 4D which is wild and I don't know what to believe, BTW I think I missed him in the video but where did you put Piranha Plant

[@angeldude101]

The weird thing about scaling Xenoblade characters is that it's heavily dependant on the _world they're in._ The world of Bionis and Mechonis is made entirely of ether, so the Monado's control over ether gives it absolute control over the world itself. Alrest on the other hand is mostly composed of... not ether, making it significantly less malleable to universe-level reality warping. Removing the world itself from the equation, Pyra and Mythra should scale to be equal to Shulk since their power comes from the same source. (Shulk's power is entirely provided to him by Mythra and Pyra's sibling. Yes, Pythra is the Monado's sister(s).) Does this make Myra 5th-dimensional then? I don't know; it all depends on which world you compare them in. P.S. Regarding speed calcs, I find it funny that with speeds like "massively hypersonic" or "5 * FTL," Mythra's top speed (not counting reality warping as Pneuma) is most likely _exactly_ 299 792 457 m/s. Precisely _c._ This is because Xeno tends to take real world physics more seriously than other series making FTL movement flat out impossible without altering time itself or using wormholes (both of which Pneuma is capable of), and Mythra herself is outright seen effectively teleporting which, given her very strong associations with light itself (she _is_ the second brightest character in smash, only behind _Galeem),_ is most likely actually her moving as a beam of light at exactly light speed.

[@Marionic9001]

"The weird thing about scaling Xenoblade characters is that it's heavily dependant on the world they're in. The world of Bionis and Mechonis is made entirely of ether, so the Monado's control over ether gives it absolute control over the world itself." - This is technically fine point to make, but Monado & Conduit can just introduce Ether to any random universe they are taken in to, and manipulate it that way still. Ether may exist only within lower dimension thanks to Conduit & Monado generating it in the first place anyway, so users of those should be virtually unaffected anyway. We can even look at crossovers like X Zone or Smash, where everyone uses their powers without any drawbacks. Yes, maybe those do not count as accurate canon representations of Xeno characters functioning in different Universes than their own, but there’s at least more precedence to it than not. "Alrest on the other hand is mostly composed of... not ether, making it significantly less malleable to universe-level reality warping." - Strangely, all Universes are confirmed to contain Ether thus far in Xenoblade, X and Xeno 2 explicitly are said to function like Xeno 1, so they at least should function similarly, yet despite this, Aegises were severally limited by many things (I don’t buy the explanation being that there’s less true matter with ether, since most of the stuff is just Cloud Sea & there’s so little life, not only are those things still made up of same old stuff as universe before (thus contain ether, but Xeno 1 should have much less of anything in it, since universe seemingly has only Bionis & Mechonis along with their lifeforms & rest being ocean, thus less Ether with same logic) "Pyra and Mythra should scale to be equal to Shulk since their power comes from the same source. (Shulk's power is entirely provided to him by Mythra and Pyra's sibling. Yes, Pythra is the Monado's sister(s).)" - No, they are not same, not exactly anyway. It is implied that the 3rd Aegis in Xeno 2 is Alvis who kinda just peaced out, but it literally can’t be the *same* Alvis that we see in Xeno 1, as that one is Zanza’s/Meyneth’s/Shulk’s Monado itself, very different from being one of the quite fodders in comparison Aegises of Xeno 2… Monado and Aegis are do quite different(ish) things after all & have different scaling. Alvis is all 3 of the Monados in Xeno 1 & thus administrative system of the entire world as Passage of Fate, force that binds even Xeno 2 world seemingly. They are not same. I don't know what Xeno 3 reveals in regards to this, but the same event that elevated Zanza into god must’ve elevated Alvis as his Blade too. I will address these more in-depth in future Xenoblade power scale, because these are legitimate questions regarding not only the scaling of the verse but, lore in general. Yes I’ve heard of the speed calculation thing, pretty funny & neat in all honesty. ……though I don’t exactly like it in scaling sense to be honest, as everything in Xeno 2 being slower than Light before we get to Jin, Foresight & Pneuma is so weird to me, compared to how Xeno 1 characters just casually pull feats like running in solar system and existing in realms with no time and fighting beings transcending it.

[@angeldude101]

@@Marionic9001 I said that Alrest is mostly composed of not-ether, not that it doesn't have any ether. The Conduit does seem to produce ether that Blades and the Trinity Processor can manipulate, but it doesn't include any of the traditional matter that also makes up their world. Bionis and Mechonis on the other hand don't have any of that traditional matter and _only_ have ether. Considering specifically Pneuma's full power, that distinction of their worlds being either a mixture of ether and traditional matter or entirely ether is one of the big reasons for the disparity between their apparent power levels. Pneuma does pull off feats similar to what Alvis can do, but the limitations of her world restrict those feats to much more localized effects, rather than being able to affect the entire universe at once. Regarding the ending of Xenoblade 1, the region is officially called "Memory Space." They're not literally running through the solar system; they're running through a recreation of it that wasn't made to scale (and also teleports them at several points).

[@Marionic9001]

@@angeldude101 "I said that Alrest is mostly composed of not-ether, not that it doesn't have any ether." - That you did, and I said that that doesn’t make any real sense that it would lack it more than any other, since stuff that Architect made cloud sea ect. out of was stuff made of things he had around in that universe, which would contain Ether as all material in universes are said to be off it (material and immaterial ) as baseline. Only explanation I can think of off top of my head that would explain this away (kinda) is that Ether is not actually natural building block of all material & immaterial stuff that it is said to be in Xeno 1, not in other Universes anyway (despite it existing normally in unrelated Xeno X world, but let’s forget that for sake of argument), but rather, it’s unnatural thing that came to be thanks to Conduit, thus explaining why new universe born in spacetime transition event caused by Klaus/Architecht via Conduit is basically made of the stuff, and OG ruined Universe of Xeno 2 having only what little ether the Conduit has introduced to it via Core Crystals, Titans ect. I guess this would be perfect explanation if it weren't for Xeno X having ether normally & (seemingly) functioning by rules set by Xeno 1… They do teleport yes, but also surf around vast distances of it by foot (not crazy interstellar distances or anything). What says it’s not made to scale? Official material says it’s memory of the entire universe and is beyond space and time anyway, so any limited speed meta doesn’t apply anyway, actually. Bionis & Mechonis were similarly able to exist before time began according to one dubious statement. There are lot of similar stuff in Xeno 1.

[@angeldude101]

@@Marionic9001 You seem to be much better at putting what I was trying to say into words than I was. Perhaps I was trying to hard to keep things relatively short and non-technical.

[@baked7423]

@@Marionic9001 idk what u mean by not being the same Alvis. Alvis is just acting in a blade type role for Zanza, meyneth, and shulk granting him his power. Rather than him being 3 monados in power it's more so those monados coming from him. Alvis is that strong because he is unrestricted as well as this is where the argument of xenoblade 1's world comes from. Ether is considered a building block of ALL life in that world. In 2 it's not stated other than being an energy source for blades, used by titans from the cloud sea, and just part of the air. Specifically for blades is it treated like with homs as low ether can cause them to feel sick unlike humans. Thats why Pneuma says they manipulate the surroundings because ether is all around them. Shulk had to recreate his world because the conduit was leaving and the source of their ether was gone. IDK why ur just assuming everything works the same when it doesn't All of the trinity processors should scale the same with only alvis being slightly above based on feats but it's pretty clear they can each counter one another. Also why are u using Xc1 characters running in a dream sequence as a speed feat that makes no sense? Even if u did they had to be teleported across each planet.

[@spikethechespin3903]

So did no one else realize Piranha Plant was missing or what?

[@banjo9158]

11:30 Are you counting travelling speed or combat/reaction speed? because combat/reaction speed of Banjo is Super sonic, he can dodge canonballs that were shoot very close to him. And Kazooie's eggs are even faster than those canonballs. Some extra stuff: Banjo and Kazooie have Regeneration that is faster than they take damage. they can have unlimited golden feathers, which would make them invunerable to anything for an unlimited amount of time.

[@Marionic9001]

That was supposed to represent both travel (movement) & reactions, seeing as to how they react to things on their way while running with Turbo Trainers. The cannonball feat… where is that from? I fully buy me missing that, but I’m not finding it with a quick search. I suppose that would be supersonic reactions then. (That would also probably upscale Turbo Trainers speed too, since they are supposed to amp base speed) Where is the regen & invulnerability from? I don’t think I’ve seen those before…?

[@banjo9158]

​@@Marionic9001 The dodging canonball comes from Banjo Kazooie Grunty's Revenge GBA. Banjo dodges them, while they are somewhat close, Kazooie eggs travel faster than the canonballs, so, the eggs would be Super Sonic speed as well, and if Banjo moves at Super Sonic Speed, Kazooie would definetly be even Faster. Regeneration and unlimited wonder wings are from Banjo Tooie, they are some of the cheats that Banjo and Kazooie can get in that game. there's a lot more than that if you want to look it up, but these 2 are the more noticable ones.

[@Marionic9001]

@@banjo9158 I did some searching and you likely mean the part with pirate ship? Yeah, that would be around supersonic, but the eggs travel only moderately faster than the cannonballs, but I guess it all checks out. Cool stuff that I definitely didn't know about, but would not grant them that much higher spot on the list. They’d definitely get past Inkling though, since they have similar speed (if not way higher via Turbo Trainers ect), so they’d just avoid Killer Wail & have far superior hax.

[@banjo9158]

@@Marionic9001 Yep. They do have tons of hax that would make really hard to damage them, their durability is very high, but that alone might probably not move them in a much higher position.

[@Stillhandling101]

Sonic should scale to outerversal

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Multiversal? Sure. Outerversal? No.

[@nathantheman5572]

After playing frontiers yeah he probably does

[@Maskman8547]

Only in archie unless you use storybook concept scaling but no

[@DevourerOfPlanets]

If dante was a fighter in smash ultimate he would be #1

[@My-art-Rock]

Mario is Stronger than Sonic He Broke the Dream stone

[@david_cool427YT]

Exactly

[@FLARE371]

Ye

[@Maskman8547]

5d Actually a lot of smash characters are 5d Mario Luigi Peach Bowser Yoshi Daisy Rosalina Sonic Cloud Sephiroth Terry (yes) Plant (maybe)

[@My-art-Rock]

Steve is High Universal according to End poem

[@spiderzsonic6581]

24:32 one last thing, the roy shaking the continent feat in what chapter happeds to corroborate?

[@Marionic9001]

I am slightly mistaken on that part, as it is not Roy’s feat per say, but his blade's. The feat comes from the part where Demon Dragon (Idunn) was first defeated by the Binding Blade during the Scouring, but for some reason I couldn’t find the exact scan for the statement (or it might be possible that it's actually just same feat as the Ending Winter, as that actually started as the result of the Scouring & I’m wrong of there being 2 separate feats).

[@spiderzsonic6581]

@@Marionic9001 a,ok

[@spiderzsonic6581]

@@Marionic9001 If you find it, tell me why I checked the game dialogues and didn't find anything similar, anyway, I already checked the eternal winter thing

[@Marionic9001]

@@spiderzsonic6581 If you went over the part with Demon Dragon’s OG defeat, it’s probably the same feat as Ending Winter then…

[@melvacaoyona-ollosa278]

Villager can literally carry a 12 ton whale shark on the palm in his without hesitation. Duck hunt dog tanked getting shot on the face by a shotgun.

[@mando76m]

Joker would still be outerversal without SMT, and in fact, SMT benefits heavily from being connected with Persona. Kandori from Persona 1 for instance, is stated to transcend dimensionality. Persona 2 has a bunch of important cosmological concepts laid out as well. Sticking to only his game and games he has been involved in, Yaldabaoth is multiversal from being capable of managing thousands to millions of palaces in Mementos, with palaces being stated to be parallel universes, and even the most weakst mementos rando's being able to produce palace buds. Yaladbaoth himself merges Kadath Mandala (the place housing persona and demon archetypes) with the real world which is a outerversal feat in of itself, even if you only use Persona

[@Marionic9001]

Finally someone with something interesting to say about Persona scaling! Tell me more. Do you have that Kandori scan, or know what part of the game I can find it from? What are the concepts that P2 brings to the table (and how do they relate to outer)? Even after al this time I’m still an amateur in Persona cosmology, SMT is more in my wheelhouse, so first time hearing that it would be SMT, series with definitive outerversal statements & lore well established by multiple entries, being the one to benefit from being connected to Persona is new to me. How are the two connected exactly…? I’m asking strictly in a cosmological/scaling sense, I do know of early lore connections. It'd be great at least if you could point me to places where I can get the information from to do my own research.

[@hellzonefirebrigade3056]

Brooo how you gonna put Isabelle so low? She has access to summoning Doomslayer, she should be top three!!! Just kidding just kidding 😂

[@Megaman-wg3bf]

I like the video, but I feel I need to tell you that it is always best to specify whether you are using creative or survival mode Steve and Survival mode Steve is exactly what you said (excluding death/damage manipulation and teleportation) while creative can wipe everyone out with "/kill @e". Clearly you used a mix of both, but I would recommend sticking to one because, practically, creative and survival mode Steve are separate characters with overlap.

[@Marionic9001]

My intention was just to use peak version of regular Steve. Creative Mode is something outside bounds of his story & thus would be ability of The Player (avatar of real life human playing the game), at least as far as I understand it, I could be wrong about that though, I’m very willing to admit that I’m not an Minecraft lore expert. 😅 I didn’t realize the death manipulation was exclusive to creative/survival. I incorrectly remembered it came from potion or something lol.

[@Megaman-wg3bf]

@@Marionic9001 First off, thanks for responding. Second, death manipulation isn't in survival, while teleportation is only possible in survival with Enderpearls, which come with a drawback as Steve takes damage from the teleportation (plus can summon and Endermite to act as a annoyance for all fighters, but it's rare enough to not be a factor) Lastly, don't worry about not understanding Minecraft lore, even I don't get it at times despite the fact that I've been playing the game for a long time lol. Have a great day!

[@luigifan001]

Things wrong with the list for some of the characters. Ryu - Using Comics and Capcom Fighting Evolution for Street Fighter is highly contradictory to canon, but since you said they were going to be on their "Prime" and using non canon material like Asura's Wrath, Ryu should just be Multiversal if not far higher via crossovers, specially Project X Zone scaling to KOS-MOS and Super Robot Wars. Ike - Ike's scaling with Ashera is dependant and exclusive to Yune's power. Such power would not work direcly on anyone else but her other half. Making it doubtful Ike himself scales to even a quarter of Ashunera's power. Roy - The SoS is stated to surpass all Divine Weapons in power, making it scale to FE7 Durandal pre-Athos Blessing, which killed Ninian, who could kill two fire dragons and endure their attacks like Athos did, and the Fire Dragons were stated to be able to turn the continent of Elibe to ash over time. (Vaporization/turning something into ash is higher than violent fragmentation in general.) Also, the Ending Winter, who the SoS scales to, spun the earth a significant amount for Yahn to notice in FE6. Making Roy solidly into Moon Level. Terry (and the rest of KOF) - I don't blame you on this one since many in North America do not know about KOF or SNK in general. Terry should be multi solar system to timeline busting as he was directly comparable to the other heroines in SNK Heroines (which is canon to KOF), who could fight and defeat Kukri, who made a realm with its own timespace and planned to merge it with reality, was in KOF SKY STAGE, a game where he and other 5 SNK Heroes fight Mirror Orochi, who collapses an alternate dimension upon being defeated and also scales to Nakoruru, who defeated Mizuki, who is vastly stronger than Samurai Shodown 2019's Shizuka Gozen, whose realm has its own time-space a well. Even at a lowball, Terry should be Multi Continental by being comparable to Athena, who defeated SIGMA, the villian of her Psycho Soldier game, who covered the earth with his power/darkness. Pikachu - Ash's Pikachu defeated Merged Lusamine, who is comparable to Necrozma, which illuminated an endless realm (Ultra Space.) So, Infinite 3D. Corrin - Corrin has absolutely none Multi Continental feats, and Warriors scaling would make them at least Universal+ to Low Multiversal due to how the Final Boss merged the Warriors and Marth's timeline together. Falchion Users (Marth, Lucina, Chrom.) - Lucina absolutely should be lower as she is not exalted in smash bros. Chrom and Marth are relative, and Grima/Robin scales to the fachion users by being able to fight them. They also have no Multi continental feats, only Large Island Level by scaling to the amount of energy Grima needs to fly according to its size comparable to the Awakening World Map. (Country Sized). 1/?

[@Marionic9001]

Ryu: I cheat with using Udon, I admit as much in the video, but why I did so I was because same kind of feats are really consistent outside main games & all big main game ones are casual most of the time. I could’ve also talked about Honda & Hakan destroying a meteor in SFV, implied to be life-wiper by their dialog & they are fodder, Haggar having country/continental feat & M. Bison with Black Moons being threat to the world ect… Udon is more concrete in these matters & lot more fun to talk about. And yes, with crossover stuff like X Zone & Power Rangers, Ryu is AT LEAST Top 20 worthy, but I'm not using those. Ike: What are you talking about? There is entire boss fight with Ike & gang holding their own against her before One-Shotting with Yune’s power. I dunno why it was necessary in game, but I argued in favor of it being necessary & that we can low-ball Ike to 4th of the Ashunera Flood feat by saying that fight was so even (despite beating the boss) that Yune needed to break the tie. But yes, it’s bit unclear. Roy: From what I saw, Roy & rest of his party had to team up to kill one Fire Dragon, Also Ninian has power to control dragons…? I used lower end to Ending Winter, considering details of the length the planet spun/warped is bit unclear Terry: I’m very surprised of the feats here. I’ve checked like hundred forums for any KOF or Fatal Fury Feats & literally never heard of any of that. Quick Google search found me both Kukri cutscenes & Orochi universe feats, and apparently there’s this guy Dark Ash who’s pretty insane as well, so seems legit… and with my current understanding I can’t exactly cry outlier either, so kudos. Apparently KOF, FF and KOF Destiny are also all different continuities… or not…? I just few days ago saw something that said so & then checked VSbattles, just to see if they have anything I don’t know on Terry & to my shock, they too had KOF & FF as separate entries. If you know this series & what are the differences in canon (if there are any) I’d like to know more (though most importantly, IF the’re different, which Terry is in Smash). Pikachu: Ash’s Pikachu is not standard for Pikachu & not part of this list in any way. That inconsistent rodent… Corrin: Character comparisons made in Warriors should be fine if not the scaling to feats exclusive to it... Or who knows, maybe dragons are just overwhelmingly weaker in Fates’ World than they are in literally every other FE universe for no reason & Corrin is just City to island level sucker.

[@spiderzsonic6581]

Ending winter moon level? How you calc that?

[@luigifan001]

@@spiderzsonic6581 Spinnin the earth faster than how it is normally + scaling above the combined power of the divine weapons Yahn knew, aka, 8X Prime Durandal, which is superior to the Durandal Eliwood used to one shot ninian and kill the fire dragons, who could turn the continent to ashes over time.

[@luigifan001]

@@Marionic9001 For Ryu, i guess it highly relies on what you consider reasonable for him. For Ike, them hurting Ashera at all yet not being able to hurt Black Knight despite being blessed by her is a bit of a gameplay mechanic but still. Roy and pals beat a fire manakete without divine weapons in early FE6, and a whole gauntlet of them within the dragon temple (which makes em stronger) in the true ending. The ending winter made the earth spin any amount faster than normal, which naturally released moon level power. Terry - Yeah, i guess it depends on which "Terry" you're considering. I dont remember any notmal FF Terry feats. It is also confusing how REAL BOUT FF is the one that actually happened in Garou and SNK Heroines and not the original FF. Pikachu - Ash Pikachu is broken by being able to fight legendaries for sure. Game Pikachu is just...a middle evolution mon and should be compared to other middle evolution mons. Corrin - With heroes, you can argue multiversal by being more adept with their dragon blood than Young Azura, who made a whole infinte multiverse with infinite worlds wihtin in a paralogue + being able to hurt Freyja at all.

[@spiderzsonic6581]

@@luigifan001 But isn't it supposed that they only created a snowfall around the planet, where it is said that they accelerated the rotation of the Earth? I'm just watching the game

[@zippymcflippy2029]

I think Steve could be placed a little higher simply because of how much weight he can carry abs still run, jump, etc. when you consider you can fill his inventory with gold and the Minecraft world has the gravity level similar to Jupiter, I would say he could be a bit higher but that’s just my take on it great video :)

[@notsodogninja35]

According to official Minecraft lore (i can't believe I just said that along with the fact that I'm replying to a year-old comment), picking up a Minecraft block is more akin to picking up a stack of playing cards. This is mostly coming from officially published Minecraft novels, namely, "The Island." It's more a compressed piece of space-time both infinitely large and small at the same time, if that makes any sort of sense. Though Steve is still capable of wearing gold armor and directly holding two cubic meters of hard gold, so that probably counts for something.

[@jeremymorris345]

​@@notsodogninja35Plus, like non canon.

[@ethancamacho7615]

Come on man, where does the other Dragon Quest heroes scale? Are they relative to each other or is there hierarchy?

[@Marionic9001]

I have no idea XD Arus, Hero from DQuest 3 (the one with DBZ haircut & cape) is apparently Multi-Continent level via defeating Zoma who has feats on that scale (though that character has crazier universal stuff in other appearances so I dunno if Hero scales). Dunno about the others, but apparently some stuff is applicable through the series, like objects & characters (kinda like how some FE games are connected but others aren’t), so they might all be more or less relative for all I know.

[@ethancamacho7615]

@@Marionic9001 maybe one of these days the developers will actually make some type of crossover between all the hero’s and then we can have a definite answer on how each hero scales to each other maybe?

[@ethancamacho7615]

@@Marionic9001 But even so, I wasn’t expecting Luminary to be THAT powerful and definitely deserves that placement

[@ethancamacho7615]

@@Marionic9001 But still though your fate content is very in depth and very interesting I will look forward to the day you post more videos about it

[@Marionic9001]

@@ethancamacho7615 "maybe one of these days the developers will actually make some type of crossover between all the hero’s and then we can have a definite answer on how each hero scales to each other maybe?" - That would be fun. Closest we’ve got thus far (I think) is Luminary’s Finals Smash in Ultimate…. Glad to hear you like my Fate content, I'll definitely make more, I even have few topics planned already, but it'll be while before I'll get to them.

[@miimemester123]

So then, how we would powerscale the Mii Fighters? I’ve heard they can be anything from City Level to Multi Continental to even Universal with spirits.l, but I want your opinion.

[@Marionic9001]

They’re too featless to scale accurately, so I just wouldn’t. Like, do they even have canon to draw from? Even if so which customs moves are included in that canon? What are they supposed to be or do in World of Light for example? Do they scale to Smash characters there in some weird way, because we never see that? Or are we supposed to treat them as regular Miis that they’re based on, but who have never showcased the abilities they fight with in Smash? Yes, before you ask, Miis have lore & abilities in various games they feature in, games like sports & Find Mii have some feats for them, so if we say they scale to the regular Miis, then those games would probably have the feats to draw from. With spirits... well, they can go pretty much to any level of power, considering the wealth of characters that are Spirits, it depends on what they equip. They can be as weak as wooden board, to multiversal & beyond via equipping things like Legendary Pokemon, MegaMan Battlenetwork, Paper Mario, Kirby & Sonic high-tiers and Persona characters ect ect., but those aren’t any standard equipment to them though…? Literally every character can equip Spirits in World of Light after all, & they’re in no way connected to the Mii fighters especially.

[@CuteRedPanda64]

I think canon wise, they're kinda close to Mario, considering the Miis feats and the fact they can keep up with Mario characters In sports.

[@lazykingdom]

Dam I thought devil may cry

[@nascour5991]

People probably salty about pika's low placement cus they don't realize most of the amazing pika feats are from ash and red. Most pikachu's are very bad and in the games his stat total is very bad. I will say pichu was far too high he's so weak and i can't think of any impressive feats in the anime and there's maybe one or two in the manga, not enough to put pichu so high. Rob at least can use mario items in mario kart idk if you consider that canon but he'd probably be about where you put him if it is, using smash canon when you said you weren't was dumb though, just seems like you didn't want him to be bottom 1 lmao. You seem to have forgotten fierce diety link which easily makes young link far far higher then where you put them. Considering it gives him godlike powers and the ability to solo all the other zelda reps in ultimate. Pretty wild to put sephiroth and cloud that low and you didn't even explain why they're both easily top 15 at least it's crazy to think otherwise. You also don't extablish what you consider canon sometimes you stick to main games like with final fantasy but then with mario you go with everything except paper mario even though that's also a spinoff??? I just want explaination lmao

[@Marionic9001]

With Pika, I thought that many would at least question me putting him below all other mons, but nobody seems to care. Pichu should at least be relative enough to other Pokemons to not be immediately killed in one attack if encountering 2nd Stage Evolutions & should be able to actually put up a fight (as we've seen many Stage One's do consistently in many iterations of the franchise), otherwise nobody would ever evolve their Pichu's into Pikachus. I suppose I didn't explain what I meant when I pulled stuff from Smash for R.O.B. I was not using Smash 'Canon' to scale them per-say, like what he does canonically in stories of those games or the like, just what weapons & abilities he has showcased to posses in Smash. Smash is distillation of character histories & supposed to at least try & represent what the characters can do ability-wise, and according to Smash, R.O.B. shoot lasers & flies ect, we've not exactly seen them do so in any of their other appearances due to the nature of the character, but I think it's fine to say they'd have those kind of abilities if they appeared in their own title (even those are all made-up for Smash, except for the gyro one maybe) as there is o contradiction in character's canon. For example, if R.O.B. appeared in his own title & showed that he definitively can't fly ect. then I would not use them. Scaling their feats is pretty impossible though, so I put them at bare minimum. What feats does Fierce Deity has that is better than rest of the Zelda? Best I can find is him one-shotting the Moon in HW, but BotW Blood Moon feats & Calamity Ganon statements sill put that particular version of Link above MM Link (and OoT Ganon is not stronger truly, I just put him above because of immortality) Main series canon is considered. Paper Mario is established to be different universe to regular Mario universe, with different worldbuiding & events and has even crossed over with main series Mario in a game, to showcase the two being different stories with different versions of characters. I'm not sure what you mean with other spin-offs not counting, what would make those non-canon to main series exactly? Can't think of anything off the top of my head you may be referring to.

[@nascour5991]

pika just isn't actually that powerful as most of his feats come from ash/red's pika and the pika in smash is just a pika putting him low made sense. Pichu's base stat total and moveset is terrible so if we're going by offical canon outside like 2 times in the manga she's p bad. fierce diety link gets all the powers of a god, however you have a good point in that there isn't really much we see of the power being demonstrated besides the fact that you can destroy all the bosses in majora's mask (except twinmold). Because of lack of powerscaling proof i think your placement for him makes sense, even though I'd put him at the top of the zelda characters and ganon shouldn't be higher then link. Also considering this videos canon rules idk why you break them to reference smash as you could just go off mario kart ds, that alone proves rob isn't the worst but it's whatever. I'm also fairly certain characters like ike, robin should be much higher, i just need to do more research. I also think your placement of cloud and especially sephiroth is super wack but I'll agree to disagree on that.@@Marionic9001

[@Marionic9001]

@@nascour5991 "Pichu's base stat total and moveset is terrible" - Game mechanics like stats don’t matter in power scaling. It is canon that Pichu should be relative enough to other mons to survive battling with them so it can evolve, which we’ve seen in the franchise consistently with other first evolutions (Pichu has strangely low screentime of actually doing that though, considering it’s next evolution’s popularity) "considering this videos canon rules idk why you break them to reference smash as you could just go off mario kart ds" - Crossovers are very questionable if they even count as canon. R.O.B. in particular has made appearances in various games which aren’t consistent with each other & likely are different iterations of the character (in one game they're a toy, in another a functional robot, ect…) I’m interested to know why you'd put Cloud & Sephy higher. You mentioned spin-off in your earlier comment, that got anything to do with it? Or something from OG FF7?

[@nascour5991]

pichu canonically i guess is relative if you're using the anime and manga as a refrence. Smash's canon is even more questionable for power scaling rob then mario kart ds is. I decided to agree to disagree on cloud sephiroth cus even though I think they could be higher I simply haven't done enough research, you could easily be right on it or i could doesn't really matter.@@Marionic9001

[@Luco_TA]

Kirby is the only character to beat a master hand in his own games. Master hand made the smash verse.

[@Blue39876]

Smash is not canon!

[@Luco_TA]

@Blue39876 yes but. Master hand still created an entire alternate timeline. With exact replicas of every character, including the spirits. Kirby fought master hand in the amazing mirror.

[@turtleearthsociety1716]

Before watching the video I’ll bet Kirby will be the strongest character.

[@Creator_Existencee]

Nope

[@ademirmochi5423]

The fact that kirby is not number 1 is insane to me, I mean... the dude fucking swallow beings that have more energy than entire galaxies... that can create entire universes just because they kinda feel like it...

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

You're ignoring the fact multi-galactic feats are not all that impressive in the context of fictional characters, especially when you have characters whose powerscaling far outperform multiversal feats. I'm not saying Kirby isn't a very powerful character when compared to the rest of the roster, but it's such a myth to say that he's the strongest Nintendo character out there, much less the strongest character in videogames, and it's definitely the case that people severely overrate his feats, while simultaneously underrating everyone else's.

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

In case my comment isn't clear enough: Kirby isn't the only character capable of manipulating entire universes nonchalantly, and in fact, this isn't even particularly rare for the SSBU roster.

[@nathantheman5572]

47:11 I just got done playing Sonic Frontiers, bro Sonic is at least top 5. I never knew how powerful he was, but after frontier sonic at a much higher plane of existence holy crap

[@nathantheman5572]

I just noticed this video was posted 2 months before frontiers was released

[@davidkerr7350]

Terry fought the god of war Mars and won and a guy(can’t remember the name) that reacts to bullets.

[@CMB-325]

THIS IS COOL KIRBY IS THE BEST!

[@CMB-325]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeraaaaaaaaaaaaah

[@spiderzsonic6581]

24:42 this are scrip form the game or is a external source like a guide/manual?

[@Marionic9001]

It’s from the game’s script. The 2 parts where Roy is told about Ending Winter

[@pattouco]

Kingdom Hearts 4 Sora will surpass Shulk is only a matter of time

[@Marionic9001]

A VERY LONG time, knowing Kingdom Hearts Development Team ;)

[@pattouco]

@@Marionic9001 2 year max. But Sora will be very OP. Nomura Want Sora to be the Main Character for all Kingdom Hearts numbered titles

[@Tankirb]

Just started the video Ive always wanted to make one of these my self. I'll put any comments I have below. If I get anything wrong feel free to correct me. If I dont mention a character assume I either aggree with you or havent done enough research on them yet 6:16 Mr game and watch is only 2d in smash bros, as far as we know in the game and watch canon he may supposed to be a 3d dimensional being 7:32 Im cool with the use of smash canon ROB. I guess if you didnt use smash rob the only other thing you would have is how strong his real toy is which would prob make him lower than olimar. 8:40 Ive personally only seen that bull feat calced at wall level. Do you have a link or where you found that calc? As for the sandman feat no time frame is given and appears to have taken multiple punches to do. I would personally put little mac in wall tier 9:52 You said you're not using smash only canon so have the ice climbers used their final smash in any other game than smash bros? If its only used in smash bros then it would be smash bros exclusive and thus not the original canon version of their characters. Same could be argued for the duckhunt dog summoning the cowboys since thats a reference to a different game the dog does not appear in and is a move only given to him in smash bros. 12:19 I totally forgot about that feat Ill have to update my personal list 13:00 Im sure its a complete coincidence that SOLID SNAKE was put at number 69 14:00 Thanks for watching the anime its something Ive always wanted to do to make sure the feats weren't taken out of context such as zoda being rebuilt or the snap simply being a way to cause pre planted explosives to blow up. I also hadnt thought of scaling falcons reaction speed to his vehicle 20:40 Is a time frame given for destroying packland and how large is pack land? I tend to stray away from these types of ambiguous statements since it could just be that he wonder from village to village killing people and not a single large attack. 24:30 Idk why but I haven't heard of the shaking the continent feat could you enlighten me? As for the eternal winter feat the exact same person telling that tale says that the weapons have grown weaker over time and thus there is no risk of them causing the never ending winter again so Im not sure roys sword would still scale off that feat since it would likely also be weaker than it was in the past(I haven't played roys game so its possible it was stated that it didn't weaken over time) 34:30 I dissagree personally. Sunstar only blew up the wily star when selfdestructing which megaman never tanks and could not be assumed to be comparable to the rest of his weapons. Duo when fighting megaman is stated to have been holding back which likely means they wouldnt scale 36:00 I personally dissagree with most metroid scaling. I only recall motherbrain stating her shield is made of the same material as the planetary shield not that it was stonger. Besides just because something is made of the same material doesnt mean they're the same durability since its entirely possible that the planetary shield was thicker. Also don't blackhole bypass durability since they work by distorting space time and grow when absorbing matter so any material could be destroyed by a blackhole. Characters only scale from blackholes by creating them or absorbing them by using the mass of the blackhole to determine how much energy would be needed to create that mass via e=mc^2. I've also have had trouble finding the scans that actually say that the tallon iv metroid survived the leviathan crash so scans would be very welcomed. Ive heard debates on if dark samus tanked the planetary explosion or if a single cell of her remained and thus was able to regen. Gorea seems like it has huge potential so Ill look more into that. Ridley tagging the ship would be a great reaction speed feat other than smash bros where has ridley tagged a non landing version of samus's shup(her ship would slow down while in the atmosphere of a planet so it would not burn up, and because landing at light speed would likely be difficult. Since a planet is shorter than a light second. (I gotta sleep but Ill be back Im a big kid icarus fan so Im cautiously awaiting to see how you scale him)

[@Tankirb]

My phone physically won't let me scroll to the bottom while editting my comment to let you know that even if I dissagree with you I respect all the hard work that goes into a video like this and hope it gets more views.

[@Marionic9001]

Mr. Game & Watch: While yes, he’s not necessarily portrayed as 2D being in his own games, there isn’t really a point of comparison, since everyone else in them is also rendered in same art style ect. In all his appearances in other titles next to 3D characters, he is consistently portrayed as 2D, kinda the fault of Melee for starting the trend, but 2D has become synonymous with Game & Watch. Little Mac: The bull feat was calculated at 18.167 tons in VSBattles, and it sounds about right, considering the distance is still low-balled & the feat was casual. Mr. Sandman, if we assume it took him even 10 or so punches, Little Mac can probably still do the same amount of destruction with couple of, or just a single Star Uppercut or Giga Mac that multiply his punching power, at least twice over, which is at least fair to assume considering that Mr. Sandman is mid-tier of the verse at best Ice Climbers: To clarify, I’m not using Smash only scaling, just abilities they have, according to Smash. They’ve been given the ability twice now, & I’d consider any ability in Smash that does not directly contradict the source material to be acceptable & fair to use. I’m not using Smash scaling that’d inform their placement as it’d pertain to other characters. DHunt & Climbers follow same philosophy as R.O.B. though I understand if it seems iffy. ”Im sure its a complete coincidence that SOLID SNAKE was put at number 69” - I wonder… 😉 Pac-Man: I agree that the feats here aren’t clear-cut, that’s why I’m not giving it any higher rating than small country. Pac-Lands size is never fully confirmed, but considering how it’s map changes in every appearance similar to Mushroom Kingdom, meaning that there's always new areas, it’s probably at least small country. Spooky is presented as immediate threat, so it’s reasonable to assume it takes at least relatively short time for it to destroy Pac-Land Roy: Continent shaking is referring to the Binding Blade shaking Elibe’s continent, I think during the Scouring. I couldn’t find the statement from the game cutscenes though, instead I stumbled on few other Continent related feats in one of the endings when fire dragons are set loose & are stated to turn continent into ash in under a month. Yes, Jahn says that Divine Weapons have weakened since Ending Winter, the part of the script I showed says as much, but Roy’s sword (Binding Blade) should loosely scale to them at full power considering it’s stronger than all combined (also I’m not sure if it’s included in the statement of them weakening?) Mega Man: Sunstar explicitly states that it’s his core that is ruptured, thus he’ll explode. It’s not any bomb inside him he activates, that’s just totality of his energy bursting out. The energy that destroys, better yet, eclipses the Wily Star is all his. Mega Man beat him & has grown far stronger as time goes on. Duo was holding back, but I brought his feats up on basis of how’d they be consistent with Mega Man’s own FTL & planetary feats. Mega Man has also been stated to be strongest robot pre-X series so he scales. Metroid: Mother Brain’s Shield being smaller more concentrated version is the reason I say it’s better. Material is the same, the shield resists stuff because of it’s constitution, not size. It has never bee implied otherwise. "Also don't blackhole bypass durability since they work by distorting space time and grow when absorbing matter so any material could be destroyed by a blackhole." - Pull of Black Hole directs energy at it’s targets same as any object in the universe. The torrents of gravity are so strong that even planets & stars break down under the strain. Theoretically, object denser than Black Hole can withstand it’s pull (but obviously in real life, an object like that would just create another Black Hole by collapsing in on itself). The entirety of Tallon IV part of the game takes place in the impact crater left by the leviathan collision & Metroids were naturally living there at the time. Metroid Prime apparently became it’s evolved form due to Phazon mutating it upon the impact. Leviathans’ shells can also tank their impacts yet Federation apparently destroyed one before it could impact planet Norion with their weapons that are fodder to Power Suit’s fledling stages. "Ridley tagging the ship would be a great reaction speed feat other than smash bros where has ridley tagged a non landing version of samus's ship" Like I said in the video, Ridley has outpaced the ship in games, like in Super Metroid. Him directly tagging it is other media (as far as I know), that I mentioned as secondary supporting evidence (though Samus’ ship has gotten tagged by far inferior Space Pirates in full on chase scenes, I think couple of times: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5nKpZmwncqfZrs - at 1:21:07 - 1:21:27) Ridley can also react to obstacles while flying (like meteors & planets he needs to land on to if he does not want to crash so his reactions scale off of his speed anyway) Samus can react to Ridley’s flight speed & Gorea’s as well. Dark Samus may also have feat on this level. It’s all quite consistent.

[@Tankirb]

@@Marionic9001 Littlemac: actually VSBW put that feat at wall level notice the (wall) next to the first calc. the 18.17tons you mentioned wasn't tons of force but tons of weight. The person directly mention that the second calc was for lifting strength and the (class 25+) is a reference to VSBW system of lifting strength for sandman since we don't know how many punches it took him I go on the safe side and just place him at wall level. He also moved while destroying the building since we see a destroyed wall behind him when he started at the front of the building. Roy: would multiple dragons turning a continent to ash in a month be continent level? did they literally turn it to ash or just go around burning all the grass, forests and towns till there was nothing else alive? cause one is a lot more impressive. No I do not believe it was not stated that roy's sword also degraded over time but if it didn't then it would be able to cause another everlasting winter by itself which is something the main cast would want to avoid. Megaman: Yes using all of the energy inside sun star's core results in that explosion but the real question is how much of that total energy does his regular attacks use? Megaman didn't beat the totality of sunstars energy he beat whatever amount of energy his regular attacks take. if the explosion took 100% of his core then his regular attacks may only take 0.0001% we just don't know. Metroid: the blackhole only gives an upper limit of zebetite durability. Just cause both samus and that blackhole destroyed zebetite does not mean that samus has the same power as the blackhole. I'm of the personal belief that the weights given in the prime series were typos but thats speculation. from a look at the metroid wiki the federation took down the leviathan with an orbital defense canon which samus and other hunters restored in order to take down a leviathan. I'll take your word that metroid were there during the tallon IV leviathan crash and accept planetary metroid until I do my own research. Ridley: I'm personally iffy on scaling reaction speed to space flight unless the character is directly shown dodging objects, since the chances of you accidentally hitting a planet, star, or asteroid is microscopic in space and a character could easily begin to slow down once they begin to reach their desired destination. as for the space pirates shooting her down she had just left the planet and was completley still when the pirates surrounded her so she may not have accelerated to top speed yet since she never appeared to get that far from the planet considering she landed on it when her ship crashed

[@Marionic9001]

@@Tankirb Little Mac: Oh right, there’s actually two values on that page. Makes me wonder if it was VSBattles I saw the calc in lol. So the feat is around 0.0000272 Tons actually, makes more sense. The building destruction is bit ambiguous, but regardless, I’d still argue that it’s probably not more than 10 & Little Mac would surpass mid-tier like that many times, though I guess calling normal building level might not be exactly right term seeing as to how the feat is not clear cut. Roy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4rIZXSBZsiEbMU - at 37:16 - 37:23 When the Dragons start flooding out only thing that is stated is that under a month continent will be ash, that’s all we know. Turning it into ash is far more impressive than breaking it too. Roy’s sword degrading would make sense in basis that he does not cause Ending Winter while using it, but from the feats perspective I’m not sold on that, since he defeats Idunn who’s AT LEAST relative to the dragons that fought & survived the war against OG non-degraded versions of Divine Weapons in the past. Argument could be made that since the sword does not even cut if he does not wish it, he can control if it causes the winter… I guess. Mega Man: Yes, but the point is that Meg Man is stronger than Sunstar, via being stated that he’s strongest robot (even before being able to use Double Gear) & by beating Sunstar… You argue that maybe Sunstar only uses like 0.0001% per attack… who’s to say Megaman didn’t beat him with 0.0001% power himself & then has relative max power in his core as Sunstar via that logic? Metroid: The Black Hole is bare min. needed to destroy the DEfense Shield, Chozo believed any outside force lacking their tech couldn’t puncture it (which includes Federations weapons that destroy Leviathans that tank their own collisions) & that’s when Black Hole was brought up (which was supplied to them by Mother Brain who Chozo thought was their ally) When flying at MTFL speeds in space, the space of a second when the planet comes to one’s view is so infinitesimally miniscule that you need to be able to react to your speed to avoid a crash (for example, human eye can barely see Mars when it’s closest to Earth, a distance of 151.67 million km, which is light distance of 3.02 minutes, so even assuming Metroid characters like Gorea or Ridley flew only measly 1000x FTL, they’d only have about 0.18 seconds to react to what they see on front of em, but we know the speeds are much, much higher. From their point of view, planets come at them at the speed they’re traveling since they’re stationary. They aren’t spaceship computers that can calc & map out where planets are ahead of time. "as for the space pirates shooting her down she had just left the planet and was completley still when the pirates surrounded her so she may not have accelerated to top speed yet since she never appeared to get that far from the planet considering she landed on it when her ship crashed" Metroid ships can accelerate in an instant: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmSZkIyKe96AoLc - at 02:22 - 02:31 Either way, Samus reacts to Ridley & Gorea flying.

[@Tankirb]

@@Marionic9001 Roy: fair enough I hadn't considered that the dragons were of equal strength to the weapons and thus roy still scales to continental Megaman: I don't believe sunstar has the same type of core as megaman or that megaman has a core that could go supercritical like sunstars. If he does then you could put him Island level, planet level via core explosion Metroid: I see the logic for your arguments. I think I'm simply to stubborn to be convinced of planet level MFTL metroid currently. I feel that to truly convince myself that I'll have to look further into the series myself. there's a saying "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". Sorry if I seemed a bit unreasonable

[@75JUNAKI]

Sonic Forces: Original script (In G.U.N H.Q) Rouge: (Communicating Shadow through a communicator) SHADOW, SHADOW, SHADOW, DR.EGGMAN IS DOING SOME STOOPID AGAIN! Shadow: (sigh) Oh god, what’s he doing now Rouge? Rouge: He stoled the pyramid, and then replaced it with million’s of egg shaped pyramid’s. Shadow: OH MY GOD, THAT’S TERRIBLE, NO THAT’S HORRIBLE, NO IT’S WORSE THEN HORRIBLE, NO IT’S HORRIBLE HORRIBLE TERRIBLE HORRIBLE! Rouge: I KNOW RIGHT? We must stop him, he’s already made a dozen egg pyramid’s while we were talking. Shadow: HOLY FRICK! E123Omega Shenron: (Communicating through a radio) Hey Shadow, while you were wheezing, I’ve just blown up a quater of the city. Shadow: Your joking? E123 Omega Shenron: No I did, I’ve just blown up another quarter. Shadow: So you blew up half? You lie, why you’re lying, stop lying. Rouge: Umm Omega, they’re made out of Sand Stone, it won’t be that hard to destroy them. E123 Omega: I was using just a Diamond Pickaxe. Shadow: Now I know your lying. E123 Omega: I’m not joking, I’ll send you a picture, here. Shadow: Holy cow, your light’s are greater then my power. E123 Omega: Terrible joke Shadow, I’ll show yo, oh hello ther (get’s blasted by an unknown). Rouge: Omega, OMEGA, oh no, if he’s destroyed, WE’LL HAVE TO GET HIM REPAIRED AGAIN! Shadow: I’m not getting Titainium Mask Man to fix him again, he rip us off twice, just like Tail’s. Tail’s bought a mansion a size of Angle Island Zone, AND PLACED ANOTHER MANSION OF THE SAME SIZE! Rouge: G.U.N won’t help, you blew up half of their base when you got mad one time. You’ll have to fix him then. Shadow: NO, I’ll force the guy’s who’s responsible to fix Omega, no way we’re paying someone to fix him. (Shadow travel’s all the way to Egg Pyramid Zone to save his crazy robot friend, buff Gamma)

[@75JUNAKI]

Sonic Forces: Original script Pt.2 Shadow: Okay, I arrive and oooooooh boy did Omega did a number on the city…….well half of it anyway’s. Infinity man: Oh hello Shadow, long time no see. Shadow: AHHHHHHH, TITANIUM MASK MAN, DON’T RIP ME OFF, PLEEEEEAAASE, I BEG YOU, WE ONLY HAVE 2,000 RING’S LEFT, WE HAD x50 MORE PRIOR. Infinity man: Who? Shadow: (In his mind) Oh he must not remember he rip’s me off, oh this is perfect, I could get him to fix Omega without paying him a single ring. Infinity Man: (In his mind) Who ever this Titanium Mask Man is, he must be a rip-off person, this is perfectto, I could rip-off Shadow and get my revenge. I’ll be rich and get revenge, I could kick 2 flickies with 1 foot. Shadow: All right, fix that buff robot over there. Infinity Man: Not unless you pay me, 2,000 RING’S! Shadow: AAAAAHH I WAS WRONG! Infinity Man: Right you are on that, give me 2,000. Shadow: PLEASE I BEG YOU DON’T RIP ME OFF, I NEED MY FRIEND FIX AND NEED TO PAY RENT, I NEED A HOUSE TO LIVE IN. ROUGE WON’T LET ME LIVE IN HER HOUSE CAUSE I WAS PLAYING CRYSTAL BALL WITH OMEGA, IT WASN’T WORTH IT CAUSE I BROKE HALF OF HER COLLECTION. Infinity Man: Pay meeeee, pay me, pay me your ring’s, your wrist ring’s, foot ring’s, your Soap Shoes, your DIGNITY! Shadow: NOOOOOOO I CAN’T, I’M SORRY OMEGA, BUT I NEED RING’S! Infinity Man: HA HA HA, THIS IS RICH, AND I’M NOT EVEN RICH, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Now, how about I’ll show you a world were you give me all your ring’s, you’ll have Omega Man be fixed, you 2 could live in Rouge’s house with all her jewel collection’s be fixed. Shadow: Oh dear. (Infinity Man create’s a reality in his mind)

[@75JUNAKI]

Sonic Forces: Original script Pt.3 (A world in Shadow’s mind that was promised by Infinity Man) Snadow: Where, we’re am I? Am I? Woah, woah, is this San Francisco Zone? Why am I lying down on a car? Either way it look’s nice, black and blue look’s nice. Rouge: Hey Shadoooooooooooooooooow! Shadow: Oh hi Rouge your driving this car, I had a bad dream, I was being ripped off by Titanium Mask Man. Rouge: Oh don’t worry Shadow, we made back our Ring’s, more then a dozen actually. Shadow: (Gasp) REALLY? Rouge: (Nod’s) E123Omega Shenron: Yes indeed, I am fixed, yayy. Shadow: (Gasp again) Omega, your fixed, oh how I missed you my friend? E123Omega Shenron: Indeed, however, I won in the contest between you and me. Shadow: Pfff I doubt that. E123Omega Shenron: Actually I did, you lost TERRIBLY! Shadow: No I didn’t, you LIE! E123Omega Shenron: Like you lie to yourself? Rouge: OOOOOOOHHHHHHHH HOO HOO HOOOOOOO Shadow: Why yoooooooouuuuuuuuuuu E123Omega Shenron: Yes, how dare I say the truth, not speak from my feeling’s, oh how foolish of me. Shadow: Errrrrrrrrgh, chaaaaaaaaooooos Rouge: Oh dear Shadow: BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST (Destroy’s the entire city)

[@amadeus.7436]

I don't really understand your reasoning with Smash vs. canon. You say you don't want to include Smash-only inventions, yet you do anyway. For example, Game & Watch can't turn into an octopus. The octopus is an enemy in one Game & Watch game and the characters don't have any control over it. You include the gunmen as part of Duck Hunt's strength yet they come from entirely different games and wouldn't fight together. (Plus wouldn't the Duck Hunt Trio technically be unbeteable by most characters since the person with the light gun is observing it all from a seperate dimension) Lastly, and this is not a jab at you or the video, I just don't really understand the enjoyment of taking every instance and mechanic so literally. In the end pretty much everyone end up having supersonic, or higher, speeds to some degree. A character can be able to generate 1 000 gigatons of force in one moment and then have to hit a basic enemy twice to kill them. It just doesn't make sense. I feel like if a character has insane feats it has to be able to be explained, otherwise it's just a game mechanic. Edit: You did an amazing job with your research it seems, just some things I think are faulty. Which is fine.

[@Marionic9001]

Thank you. I can only say that my explanation of Smash vs canon was, awfully worded to say the least. You’re not the first one to make note of this. My main goal was to separate scaling of the canonical games ect. material from separate scaling of Smash’s story… for example, in his own games Mario has shown universal & beyond feats ect. while character like Kirby and Link, two people he canonically fights in Brawl, have higher & lower scaling respectively, yet any one of them can beat each other in canon. R.O.B. & Ice Climbers don’t have any notable feats but here they are constantly evading & out-speeding everyone who’d normally be considered strong during cutscenes. This applies to every fight in Brawl’s story mode, the series’ dubiously canon trailers & World of Light. Every character is seemingly more or less relative to each other, which might be explainable with everyone being trophy/spirit based on real world equivalent animated by Master Hand’s creativity & thus they may not exactly match their templates. I simply granted Game& Watch ect. characters the abilities they have in their movesets, which is fine when there is no contradicting evidence in source material, like I mentioned at 07:42 (G&W in particular is fine, considering Smash kinda treats him as amalgam of at least all original G&W games). "Wouldn't the Duck Hunt Trio technically be unbeatable by most characters since the person with the light gun is observing it all from a separate dimension" - The Duck Hunt gunman could be interpreted that way, at least judging by Smash Trailer for them, however, in original game they're simply implied to be a character like rest (Palutena’s Guidance makes note that the gunman is just hidden, but that doesn’t necessarily confirm either which way, but that I can say is that no player is currently shooting his game controller gun at screen when they do their side-smashes). Your game mechanic part confuses me. Are you complaining how gameplay differs from canon or confusing game mechanics with canon? I ran with canonical & story based info and not gameplay mechanics in this video after all, so I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to here… could you elaborate, perhaps with a side of an example from the video?

[@amadeus.7436]

@@Marionic9001 I didn't expect such an elaborate explanation, but thank you. I understand this video more now. I thought the characters wouldn't rely on Smash at all which confused me a bit I suppose, but I still don't quite get mixing Smash canon and canon from their games. It's okay though. And regarding the last piece I didn't word it quite as well as I could have. What I meant to point out is that if a character, let's say Marth for example, is able to achieve supersonic speeds then what's the explanation? He's made of flesh and blood and should by no means be able to achieve that. Nothing ever supports the fact aside from calculations saying he has to because he dodges stuff sometimes. I get that we're taking the source material as definitive proof but I just think it's kinda silly personally to look at it like that.

[@Marionic9001]

@@amadeus.7436 "I still don't quite get mixing Smash canon and canon from their games. It's okay though" - It’s just to give R.O.B. & others of the sort something we can work with. Smash is supposed to represent the stories & abilities of the characters in it, it is a celebration of these characters & their histories after all, so as long as things it introduces don’t outright contradict lore established by source material (which R.O.B. technically lacks, so we can’t exactly say they have shown lack of lasers) it’s fine to use, at lest in my books. So you have problem with fictional people being able to do fictional things…? If you want ”a reason” why certain characters can reach certain levels of power, we usually have lore explanations for such built into the media, that’s what Power Systems are literally for in the stories. Things like Ki, Chakra, Spirit Energy, Ether, Magic, demonic/holy weapons, different alien physiology and so on are put into story for, well various reasons, but also to explain away why the characters are so superhuman & can do the things we real humans can not. Most of the characters in this list have thing like that. But in cases where seemingly normal humans (yes, most of Fire Emblem technically falls into this category, now that you mentioned them), there is far simpler explanation. It’s fiction. In real life, you could never train your body to be tougher than iron & move faster than light, but in series like One Piece for example, even normal human without any Devil Fruits ect. powers can naturally grind away & become that strong. If it is constantly showcased in the fiction that characters can move at supersonic speeds or whatnot, then it is consistent & thus we would use that consistent info to infer ”I see, so people in this world can move beyond supersonic speeds huh” -ect. They are simply imagined that way. Problems arise when there are contradictions, but in those kinds of cases we settle things by looking at what’s most consistent in the story.

[@amadeus.7436]

@@Marionic9001 I mean, Mr. Game & Watch turning into the octopus is not something that happens in the games and there's nothing that suggests he can do so other than Smash. I understand it would be pretty boring to say "he's just a dude" but if you want to stick to your rules then stick to them. Feels unnecessary to be lenient with some characters when you have 80+ to work with. And yeah I totally get your reasoning regarding the logic of certain characters being able to do certain things. You're following the same logic most other people do when they power-scale character like this. I just don't think it necessarily makes for a very interesting subject. A lot of it feels like an early Game Theory video where a character's speed or strength technically would be ridiculous but just doesn't make sense when you think about in the context of the story or gameplay. The people who created most of the characters clearly didn't design or write them with the intention of them achieving supersonic speeds.

[@Marionic9001]

@@amadeus.7436 "I mean, Mr. Game & Watch turning into the octopus is not something that happens in the games and there's nothing that suggests he can do so other than Smash." - He turns into all sorts of things and characters from Game & Watch games… in Smash he’s more like weird amalgam of all of the original games, seemingly. "The people who created most of the characters clearly didn't design or write them with the intention of them achieving supersonic speeds." - I would like it if you could provide example on why you think certain someones shouldn’t be as powerful as the feats their authors made them display would imply.... I guess death of author is a thing, but still, I would be interested to hear…

[@exaltsora164]

Lumping characters from the same series together did not do a single one of them any favors

[@Marionic9001]

Oh? What would’ve been gained exactly by separately going over each character that scales to the same stuff as bunch of others? When scaling Daisy or Bowser Jr. I’d just gone with ’scales to rest of the cast of Mario who have relevant feats’ -for example. I guess I would then talk about individual hax…? But those are listed in the video already too…? The video is already pretty long mind you, and going over everyone in detail wasn’t exactly the top priority here to begin with, but instead, getting a basic outline as to where everyone scales in relation to one another was. Believe me, most of the characters here deserve their own videos talking about what they can do in detail, but that wasn’t the point here. I hope you understand.

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

The spooky in the Pac-Man section is too loud

[@HasanDaader]

Wait.. R.O.B is technically the most powerful in smash cuz he’s the only one who can attack people in the real world

[@Marionic9001]

If we follow the logic of IRL toy R.O.B. being same as game R.O.B., I propose that he is in fact weakest... lot of Smash characters have figures in real world too & have far greater killing potential in comparison, due to possessing sharper edges, lol.

[@HasanDaader]

@@Marionic9001 dang it my horrible logic was destroyed by another version of my horrible logic that was actually intelligent!

[@brendiesel386]

Mega Man doesn’t scale to Duo and is outright conveyed to be weaker than him Duo is weakened during his fight with Mega Man due to battling the Evil Robot earlier and crash landing on Earth from space When Mega Man first sees Duo in his stage, he comments on his strength, saying “What power…!” Mega Man and Duo’s fight gets cut short, due to Duo believing Mega Man to be a warrior of justice Mega Man also notes how powerful Duo is after the fight, and states he was holding back Before Mega Man enters Wily Castle, he attacked and electrocuted by a robot for several seconds, before Duo easily kills it Right before the final boss, Mega Man is about to be hit by a laser made of evil energy that is implied will kill him, but Duo takes the attack for him, and damages Dr. Wily’s machine, destroying the cannon I’m not sure about fears outside the games tho

[@Marionic9001]

Mega Man is considered strongest fighting robot in later appearances even after everyone’s aware of Duo, which is not at all unreasonable seeing to how he’s seen getting stronger over time, via upgrades & fighting constantly stronger threats (Double Gear System from 11 being most blatant example), while Duo hasn’t been implied to do so. In just one game Rock went from getting One-Shot by one of weaker Star Droids in the opening, to defeating Sunstar, who was considered super weapon even among Star Droids. Not to mention direct feats like ones in Rockman Strategy, game where Luna and Apollo, pretty much two randos, just beat up Duo. Mega Man ect. are able to beat them up with no problems, & them injuring Duo was never treated as impossible or particularly massive feat either. All to say even IF he didn’t scale to Duo in Mega Man 8, he definitely should later.

[@brendiesel386]

@@Marionic9001 I was talking about Mega Man 8 specifically I was unaware of Duo’s appearances in other games besides power fighters And I’m not that knowledgeable on the mega man scale besides MM8

[@dsw-2898]

Things i don't agree with Falcon and the star fox characters getting their vehicles(I don't think they count as weapons) Ryu and Ken being that high(I don't think you can use dark ryu feats as feats since he normally can't do that) Ganon being in the same tier as Link(he should be way above since he only lost due to hax) Samus being in the same tier as DS and Ridley(she should also be higher) Palutina,Dark pit,and pit should all be in different tiers(pit being way stronger then Palu)

[@Marionic9001]

Ryu can access Evil Ryu under stress & anger though? Also Mu no Ken is equal to that form & he definitely can access that one whenever. Everybody being on the same tiers is pretty much just for them scaling to same stuff. The feats I mentioned for Ganon & Samus in particularly scale to rest of the cast (I gave examples in the video already, but basically, for Zelda-verse, Ganon is the one with life wiping/planetary feats & Link fights that mofo. True, Link needs hax to cancel his hax, but he’s still fighting him. Rest of the cast downscale from that). I didn't put clearly stronger characters to different tier because the stuff they scale to is same, & thus I put them in same spot/tier in the list to avoid talking about the same feats more than once, the likes FE characters couldn't be lumped in with each other & have several different tiers/spots on the list because they scale vastly different things despite being around each other in power, but Kid Icarus feats for example were mainly ones that all characters scaled to, like gods making stars ect.

[@kaindol7854]

Correction: after the duo boss fight in mega man 8. It was established that he was holding back against mega man.

[@Marionic9001]

Doesn’t really matter for the scaling, considering how Mega Man is considered strongest fighting robot in later appearances… Luna and Apollo from Rockman Strategy also beat Duo up & at no point does Mega Man nor anyone else think that’s crazy powerful, & he just beats them.

[@justin-pk4hx]

I want to see a video of power scaling all of the Sega characters

[@eddieboston6540]

i know this video is old so you don't know that sonic scales to 7D. sonic frontiers made a lot of games canon like sonic shuffle which has is a 4D realm of dreams, solaris has multiple 4D statements , and so does time eater who is also 4D having complete control over time, in frontiers we get the end a being stronger then all that came before the end of everything needing to be 5D. also the whole thing of sonic generations was that sonic was running in world that had there time stolen meaning sonic was moving in zero time.

[@luigifan001]

Falchion users part 2. Tokyo Mirage Sessions versions of the characters are NOT the same characters as in the main series. (Mirage Chrom went thru a transformation) and it would put them at complex multiversal because they have Shin Megami Tensei characters such a Loki around, but it depends if that is valid. Medeus did make an earthquake that could be felt in two timelines. (Real world and the idolasphere), so low multiversal and possibly even lower than the FE Warriors's final boss. Byleth - Not a single multi continental feat either. Rhea is literally an over time feat. I do aglee with Large Island to Country, since the Javelin of Light's feat was done to a small island nation on the map. Zelda Characters - Super downplayed. Vaati's dimention on Minish Cap alone is Mutli Solar System because of the background, the Triforce's wishing power is universal as shown in A link to the past, where ganon twisted the golden realm into the dark world and Fierce Diety is at least star level because Majora's moon literally has a sun inside, which is completely Majora's making. The Goddesses are multiversal, but the triforce is stated to be insignificant compared to them or even their oracles, so none scale to that, perhaps only Zelda herself at her peak goddess power. BOTW Link has the Obliterator, which is shown to be infinite Attack, but might be a game mechanic. Kid Icarus- None of the characters in the game scale to Dyntos. Dyntos easily put Palutena to sleep and stated that the conflict between Pit and Hades bored him, also Palutena creating sky world is never stated ingame. You can still scale Pit to Hades's nation busting statement in the final chapter. Mario Verse - Massive, massive downplay. Dream Team Mario defeated Dream Depot Bowser, which had several universal sized realms made out of the dreams of all the inhabitants of the mushroom kingdom. Pure Hearts Mario defeated dimentio, who was going to destroy all worlds (stated to be countless to infinite) in the marioverse. Castlevania - Infinite in a 3D scale is downplay. The Belmonts can fight dracula/Soma, who is above galamoth, who is above the time reaper, who was going to destroy all Casltevania timelines (true golem story, Aeon cutscene if curious) if not stopped in Judgement. (which is canon according to an interview.) Low Multiversal. Persona - In short, if scaled to SMT, Complex Multiversal. If not, Multiversal (by being able Yalbadoth, who controls mementos, which has a world for every person on earth, which are separate universes as stated by Morgana and in some clear examples like Shadow Futaba.) Kirby - Wank. Kirby caps at Low Multiversal as there are only 16 confirmed timelines in the kirbyverse. There is no reason to claim he is infinitely above reality by any way. ------- Some notes/maybe outliers. If you want to go all out, Animal Crossing sees Mario and other nintento worlds as fiction. Game and Watch has the triforce in the Zelda game. Captain Falcon's reactor Max is able to reverse a black hole that was going to destroy the universe in the anime. So his blue falcon is at least universal. I still have my doubts about 5D Sora and 6D Shulk, but the rest is kinda reasonable imo.

[@luigifan001]

Also of course. DISSIDIA Cloud and Sephi are easily multiversal+

[@Marionic9001]

Falchion Users: The future timeline where Grima won the continents had bee ravaged. Grima was stated to be threat to the world also.The flying’s also just Grima existing (moving around), not doing any intentional harm. If his cameo in Shadows of Valentia is canon too, he also scales to Duma who created Valentian continent? Tokio Mirage Session was brought up only for crappy joke, it’s not used for the video, but cool to know about their scaling anyway, FE scaling is pretty lit outside their main series I see, FE Heroes has busted stuff too... Byleth: Flood of Despair is not over time feat, healing the devastation it did is though, yes I agree. Zelda characters: Most of the feats you mention are what I’d consider outliers or can be explained away. Vaati feat is questionable. Realm in the Moon is never stated to be Majora’s doing, not to mention these (& few others) are inconsistent with portrayals of final boss tiers consistently being hyped at surface to planetary lvl. Zelda as Goddess is insigniffact to 3 Golden ones, she got her ass beat by Demise. Triforce is not included as none of the characters wielded it in those particular versions (I guess Zelda technically, but it was joint effort?). Not that it would change their placement much considering their speed compared to rest of the entries…. Obliterator is disqualified for number of reasons, among them being that it’s only usable n Plateu area & DLC of questionable canonicity Kid Icarus: I literally had to google who Dyntos was to refresh my memory, because I never mentioned this guy in my scaling, so what are you talking about? Creation of Skyworld is implied. Nothing you said counters why Underworld & Hades’ Belly wouldn’t scale to Hades & Medusa, so why the fodder country statement? Hades disturbed all 3 worlds in KI by eating souls for Christs sake. Mario: Dream Team has Dream Depot despite it only appearing in Mario Party 5? Wut. If by a change you meant Dreamy Bowser, the feat is mentioned. Paper Mario is different version & not used. Low-balling those guys to infinite power is also big low-ball… Castlevania: Infinite 3D is downplay, bu you proceed to give out feats that are lower than infinity? I already know Time Reaper is fodder feat of the verse, but it does not destroy all of time (which is never stated endless in the verse to my knowledge anyway), but is consistently said to destroy an era. Aeon only says to Golem that all beings everywhere will disappear. Obviously entire universe will disappear if the era it’s on vanishes, don’t see why this is states all timelines (which there is like 2 or 3 in the series?) or even all of one timeline. Universe exists in each instant of that time… so if we high-ball wank an era to be 1000 years (all of the time Castlevania's story takes place,, it is called era in an interview & implied to b the era game is talking about) that would fodder reaper is destroying untold billions of universes… big number, but fodder to infinity Joker: Joker is not limited multiversal, Collective Unconscious is stated to be endless. Infinity is bigger than any number of limited things. What definition of Complex Multiversal you mean? Using such a vague term is strange to me. I was under the assumption that SMT is Outerversal. Kirby: What? Timelines? I never said anything about f*cking timelines in Kirby, where is this coming from…? I only scaled Kirby & friends to Extra-Dimensional Routes Lor uses since they destroy them & scale to guy who manipulates one (Galacta) & scale to guy who’s destroying dozens if not hundreds of them (Void). Extra-Dimensional of course means above last dimension, aa 4D. Ain’t rocket science. "Animal Crossing sees Mario and other nintento worlds as fiction" - Fun feat, but it’s more like implication rather than feat. There's many Universes in DC & Marvel that are just normal universes but think heroes of other Earths are fiction. Also that’d just be a version of of those franchises. Even if it was 100% confirmed, it’d contradict all crossovers like Mario Kart 8 that have them not see them as fiction.. . "Game and Watch has the triforce in the Zelda game." - Don’t you play as Link in G&W Zelda? Which game is the one with Triforce? "Captain Falcon's reactor Max is able to reverse a black hole that was going to destroy the universe in the anime. So his blue falcon is at least universal." - No, Ryu Suzaku was only spinning his F-Zero machine to reverse direction to Dark Matter Reactor that was kept active by it’s rotation, which ended up with it overloading itself and falling into it's core. Black Hole was not touched at all, it disappeared when the Dark Matter Reactor fell into the Core. "DISSIDIA Cloud and Sephi are easily multiversal+" - Yeah, they're different from canon versions. So are Kingdom Hearts versions

[@luigifan001]

@@Marionic9001 One thing is that Multi COntinental Three Houses is somewhat valid if we take the feats given to Sothis literally. Tho, it is also stated that Sothis likely created the universe before time even existed at her prime, so, does this scale to Byleth or the Sothis we see in TH?

[@flamingsword2548]

Have you heard of smash bracket it does this same thing with animation and a tournament format it's really cool this video was cool too just in a different way

[@flamingsword2548]

They are really cool I reccomend checking them out also I find this video very impressive considering it was made by 1 person great job.

[@flamingsword2548]

Also while I understand these characters are from their peak I don't think shulk should have the monado 3 considering he didn't want it anymore after beating zanza if a character willingly gives up something I don't think they should have it in a vs fight because they made their choice to get rid of it and we see that in future connected where shulk is much happier without the monado 3

[@flamingsword2548]

Other than that I thought this was really impressive great job

[@Marionic9001]

To tell the truth, no, but I checked the Bracket out just now. It’s just vs battles & not comparing all characters simultaneously though? I guess the idea of comparison is the same. I’ve watched few episodes now, and I like the animations fine enough, but the scaling part is incredibly meh. Seeing Nemesis Bloodryche’s characters narrate was biggest surprise.

[@oscarwillimott9296]

Can't Steve hold chests in chests in- etc.? Wouldn't that influence his score?

[@Luco_TA]

Lifting strength never really affects their strength since he isn't strong when it comes to attacking

[@glitch-xega]

he can't actually do that, shulker boxes can but you can't put a shulker box in a shulker box sadly

[@75JUNAKI]

I’ll come back later, 25:00.

[@Mr.Wahoo77]

How did Seporith defeat Galeem?

[@Bagelboy4]

Smash canon

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

Character trailer.

[@Maskman8547]

Sneak shot, and the trailer demanded it but trailers ain't canon

[@dadlh6394]

sonic should scale to mulitversal besed on solaris

[@Maskman8547]

5d

[@spiderzsonic6581]

25:34 I have yet to see his feats but isn't supposed that sothis create the world?

[@paskaperse3037]

steve with command blocks

[@phantom9831]

Yeahh about that, that's not Steve's ability, it's the command block that can use the commands, and when you type them in the chat bar, this is you, the player, that actually types them, not Steve When you use WASD to move, you're making Steve move, he does it, so he can, but whe you type the commands, he doesn't type them, he can't (and the commands exists in almost everygame, you can use them legally in minecraft, that's all)

[@topiaso6948]

@@phantom9831 Earlier today I was really horny, and I saw what I thought to be a blank DVD. I thought, DVDs have a tight hole, they might feel pretty good. So I put my soft pp into the hole of the DVD, and for a few seconds as I started getting harder, it felt pretty good, but then, once I was fully erect, it started being painful. My pp was stuck in the DVD, and I had to break it in half to get if out. It was then when I flipped the broken DVD over and realized that it was not a blank DVD, but a copy of the Pixar movie Up.. Well guys, guess I fucked up.

[@Plushplush1]

Olimar is unironically 10D due to holding the string theory so this list is outdated 🐿

[@hoonencode2430]

String theory got debunked to 4d.

[@Plushplush1]

@@hoonencode2430 How do you debunk a theory 💀 you can’t just claim everything is debunked, especially a literal scientific theory

[@Marionic9001]

wat. (Also in what world is ”The Concept” of String Theory 10D, if just regular String Theory denotes 11D Universe… *confused mumble…*)

[@Plushplush1]

@@Marionic9001 Not a concept, a theory (unless my edit saying that it’s a theory didn’t go through) The string theory is just that the universe lives in 10 dimensions… there’s also a scan showing that the string theory exists in the verse

[@Marionic9001]

@@Plushplush1 Well u def said concept of string theory, before editin’ that first comment, but its whatever. String Theory calculates up to 11th-Dimension after M-Theory was introduced to the equation 1995. Most fictions after 95 tend to refer to this version of String Theory. I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you’re saying here… so let me get this straight: basically you’re implying that String Theory exists in the verse = character scales to it…? So I guess Spider-Man is multiversal, no, excuse my french, OUTERVERSAL, since that’s something that exists in his verse, going by this logic…?

[@jonathansdreamland1207]

B-but he’s a human snakes a human 🥺

[@peteypiranalover]

ROB is a weird character to rank. It depends what you consider canon Smash bros is where he gets all his abilities. Mario Kart maybe makes him very durable. But ds is slower than top tier mario kart. It is unclear if that is a fair canon. Otherwise he is just a plastic toy with minimal robotics

[@Marionic9001]

Yeah. R.O.B. doesn’t have any quote ’canon’ appearances per say, the one their toy is based on would be the canon R.O.B., & we technically never see that… all I can say is that crossovers consistently portray R.O.B. as being a robot & not toy, and we are likely meant to take it as that being canon for them. Speaking of crossovers, they wont be used here. They tend to be of dubious canonicity to begin with & stuff like Mario Kart DS that lacks story to begin with makes it too hard to say how R.O.B. specifically is supposed copare to rest of the cast. Like in gameplay they’re comparable (in karting scenario which does not equal power), but in Smash gameplay Wii Fit can beat the sh_t out of Ganondorf just as likely as the reverse is going to happen, so I don’t think using Mario Kart is fair exactly. On that note, using stuff they are implied to have canonically by Smash seems better in comparison. After all, Smash tries portray it’s playable cast as distillation of their entire history & main appearance in the character movesets ect. and R.O.B. having this kind of tech fits in with their characteristics as robot (even if these weapons & moves are completely made up aside from Gyro basically) & no other media they appear in explicitly says they do not exist. The point was to scale them in according to those abilities they’ve shown, not any Smash specific scaling.

[@XbladedGG]

nah rob is the strongest cuz he exists in the real world 🗿

[@peteypiranalover]

@XbladedGG that is not how this ranking works. Also RoB is useless even in the real world. Besides their are robotic recreations on other characters as toys too.

[@XbladedGG]

@@peteypiranaloverI was just making a joke, since rob exists in the real world, none of the other characters would touch him, thats all

[@peteypiranalover]

@XbladedGG i know but if we go that road any mechanical character toy of the characters could compete. Mario or pikachu have got to have mechanical toy on par with rob

[@Haruo-6768]

When I want a zelda expert and how to scale them. I don't go to mario fans to do it. Man listen, he just say ness is infinite, the hell, does he even comprehend what infinite is. Man listen as you talk about characters being infinite ♾️, like omnipotent power, like the christian god or whatever you believe. I don't take you seriously as a researcher or as a power scaler. Luckily where humans, so we don't comprehend what infinite is or how large a dimension is.

[@Marionic9001]

Infinity is not the same as omnipotence. I suggest you read up on the concept of higher infinities and imaginary numbers if you want to know more about the subject. It is all quite interesting.

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

*sigh*

[@LightningvsLightning]

I like this but there's one problem 7:36

[@jennysong1299]

Steve can lift up to 17 billion tons. I think he should be higher.

[@Marionic9001]

People keep mentioning this in the comments, is that a thing? All the sources I've checked to verify never mention it as being a thing, I thought he holds his objects via Object Space (Hammer Space), like Villager or any other character in video games with inventory.

[@jennysong1299]

Search how strong is steve in youtube and watch one of the shorts.

[@Marionic9001]

@@jennysong1299 Alright, now I've seen some. It's because of the netherite block right? I don't know what to think of it. Isn't he holding a spawning block & not that weight itself?

[@Dumbo-zx7oc]

@@Marionic9001it’s from game theory Austin tried to see how strong Steve was if the games was like our world with there weights

[@Dumbo-zx7oc]

@@Marionic9001ou won’t be able to find it as game theory fired him and took down all his videos there wasn’t any drama they were just bought out and the new owner didn’t really want him on board he said he would upload the videos to his channel name is ShoddyCast

[@williamcie333]

I’m glad you did not low-ball Kirby but I still he should be no. 1 as he is a incarnate of void who created the Kirby omniverse in the first place and if you think about it, we’ve never seen him give it his all, plus his cosmology can be scaled to 8d and he has broken the fourth wall numerous times, plus he has speed which can be LOW-BALLED to be faster then time but could be VASTLY more, but i still think that you did a amazing job on scaling Kirby and the rest of the video was great (and I know it says he has immeasurable speed in the video btw, I’m just saying faster then time speed is probably brought to speed blitz every character on this list)

[@Marionic9001]

So I didn’t low-ball Kirby, despite low-balling him to infinitely (x2) lower level in your eyes? What 8D feats or cosmology are you talking about? Now would be good time to surprise me with some scans I’ve never seen, since I have no idea what you’re talking about? Faster than time? Yes that’s immeasurable speed, plenty of characters have it on this list.

[@williamcie333]

IIRC (this in fact may be a little vague) Kirby is stated to be the positive reincarnation of void and the reason for the 8d cosmology is (IIRC) one of the levels in a Kirby game is basically a bunch of infinite compact dimensions, since void is the creator of these infinite dimensions and Kirby is basically void we can infer Kirby would be above infinite dimensions and therefore well, high outerversal at LEAST

[@williamcie333]

Also void is said to exist in all dreams, dreams are equal to universes in Kirby lore, so Kirby very well maybe be beyond dimensions.

[@RHVGamer]

this comment gave me brain hurt

[@angelmendez-rivera351]

@@williamcie333 Being beyond dimensions is not a particularly impressive feat, though. I mean, like, this describes at least 6 other characters in this list. So saying Kirby is #1 because he is extradimensional doesn't work as a powerscaling argument. Cloud, Sephiroth, Joker, Sora, Bayonetta, Pyra/Mythra, and Shulk are all extradimensional, and these are all just the ones I know of from the top of my head.

[@PeterOkoye-dc2sc]

Sonic should be the strongest

[@snivydream]

For Steve um Have you watched the games theory video if yes you should know his resilience and strength And if we consider that Steve has the most damaging inventory possiblethen imagine an explosion of 63,936 meters Also you didn't account for creative mod

[@justjames4]

Switching game modes is an ability that the player has rather than an ability that the playable character Steve has. The Game Theory video uses Creative mode to come up with the conclusion for Steve's power, making it inaccurate.

[@snivydream]

@@justjames4 still be should be a bit higher

[@RHVGamer]

i just watched the kirby section of the video because they're always completely wrong it was completely wrong what a surprise i can't be bothered to leave another long comment proving everything wrong because i'm tired of "powerscalers" who don't actually know kirby lore

[@Marionic9001]

Shame.