Ranking How EVERY Character Should Change In Smash 6

[@MockRockTalk]

Go to buyraycon.com/mockrocktalk for 20-50% off sitewide! Brought to you by Raycon. | Thanks for watching everyone! This topic took a lot to cover haha, ended up being the most work I've put into a MockRockTalk video in a long time. It's also a very dense topic with a lot of room for disagreement, so feel free to let me know what you thought! *Main channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock

[@varietychan]

honestly the best sponser

[@rosheafan]

I am a super duper Ultimate Roy hater His aerials should be noodles because that's what make his combos satisfying Also they gutted Flare Blade and it will always make me sad

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

Turns out my suggestion was bang on. First time this year!

[@ridgenyan-botxv367]

@@varietychan sssssa4wess4sasasaaassssaasasaaeaeases4sRte a

[@silverpotato4272]

Just wanted to add a note about Mii Swordfighter as one of his few mains. I agree that it's weird that he's the one mii that has their own identity and isn't based heavily on another character, but it makes sense that the swordfighter would be like that. We already have so many fundemental swordfighters (to the point where a lot of people complain about it) and adding another wouldn't really add anything substantive to the game. I agree that it's a really weird kit for a mii and don't disagree that he needs a rework, I just don't know what you could do with him without just making him lucina 2.0

[@lasercraft32]

Diddy Kong in Smash Bros. feels less like "Diddy Kong the character" and more like "Sakurai designed a moveset around the concept of *M O N K E Y ."*

[@trainerrichard6859]

Can you elaborate? Most of his moves stem from his canon games.

[@gubsy3730]

The big thing is his voice. Banana is already a fundamentally oppresive concept, and the fact that it's accompanied by obnoxiously realistic monkey screeches makes the experience of playing against him 1000x worse.

[@NairMcgee1]

I can never see Diddy Kong in the same way after... recent events

[@pzb1017]

@@NairMcgee1What he did to the others at his parties on Kong Island… It’s just not the same.

[@thehayze259]

WHY ARE YOU EVERYWHERE!!! Holy how is it you get a top comment on everything I see?!

[@FalcoVille]

If they're gonna bring Ridley back I NEED him to feel like an actually ruthless and violent character instead of having moves in Smash that just make him feel like "Ridley the man-person-dude-guy".

[@ricocarpenter2189]

They did do really well with space pirate rush. The move feels brutal to use.

[@thunderd7904]

Imagine how cool it would be if his down air sweet spot buried grounded opponents

[@castform7]

He has like 4 moves that really lean into him being a vicious killing machine, and one of them is basically Falcon Punch level useful.

[@mochaman29]

He should also be a good air fighter. Fast air movement, a tail hop down air instead of his shitty one.

[@monstermaker73]

​@mochaman29 YES. Literally one of his most iconic moves in the Metroid series is his tail pogo stick. As decent as his dair is in a pinch or a rare occurrence, they're really missing out on making him our go-to flying heavy.

[@BN-tr6hp]

I've always thought about how one-note Olimar's playstyle is in Smash but I also think that he should have more focus on Pikmin preservation. In Smash he's essentially rewarded for constantly sacrificing his Pikmin when resource preservation is extremely important to both Pikmin gameplay AND Olimar's character. Maybe make the flower buffs on their heads more apparent in exchange for slower plucking?

[@Cyberguy64]

Resource based characters annoy me in Smash, because it always feels like they get too much bonus benefit from their mechanics without really being penalized for running out. (Aside from poor Kazooie and her breegull pattern baldness.) It takes Olimar no time to pluck new pikmin. It takes no time for Inkling to recharge their ink. It only takes Robin a few seconds to recover their tools, and they've got fifty to fall back on when they run out of one. Hero and Joker build up their reserves regularly just by playing the game. Steve can mine and craft new resources at lightning speed. It just feels like the risk-reward scales are heavily stacked on the "reward" side of things, which makes them obnoxious to fight. The only consistent weakness to a resource character's gimmick is "Play like a complete idiot." which isn't exactly something you can regularly capitalize on as an opponent.

[@RinZDR]

@@Cyberguy64 I think robin’s resource management was balanced well enough compared to the others, if they lose the levin sword you’re forced to use a much shittier weapon and losing the tomes just makes it so you can’t even do anything until it comes back, and making that worse would only make them a worse character and robin is already kind of mid anyways

[@lolikocie316]

From my experience, you were pretty well rewarded in Sm4sh for preserving specific Pikmin lines ups. (2x purple + 1x blue was super fun to terrorize people at high %) However in Ult the Pikmins health is just too low , so it's too difficult to preserve them. ... especially since , when you throw them from high up , and they land on the stage , they lose health. Also he should really have Moss and maybe bitter/spicy spray to emphasize the ressource management theme by make them separate ressources.

[@fissilewhistle]

I know how to fix Olimar: just cut him from the game.

[@BN10702]

@@fissilewhistle😼

[@mediocreviddygameplayer]

Little Mac's KO punch isn't made up, although it hasn't been a thing in the series since Super Punch-Out!! on the SNES. Giving him the Star Punch could be more interesting, for sure.

[@monstermaker73]

Maybe they could make it so that landing specific moves or doing particular things to counter other characters gives him stars?

[@mediocreviddygameplayer]

@@monstermaker73 Yeah, that'd be cool! I would personally love if punishing specific fighters' moves gave him star.

[@jamainegardner4193]

If timing how his smash attacks, blocks and counters landed effectively gave him stars, then maybe Little Mac with 3 stars could just have better movement in the air and damage outut to match?

[@dc_dachi]

@@monstermaker73Little Mac feels like one of the few characters where a counter attack SHOULD be central to his kit, but as is, his Slip Counter is only really used as a niche recovery mixup and edgeguarding checkmate. I’d love to see it get reworked into a more intricate parry or a command dodge with a tight frame window to really emphasize the importance of timing and evasiveness-something like Guilty Gear Slayer’s Dandy Step.

[@PALWolfOS]

People say this, but while getting the KO punch is like Super, the functionality of it being a single use attack is more like the Star Punch, so it’s an odd hybrid

[@noahhenderson6909]

unfortunately as the number 1 kh2 glazer, nair loops are VERY faithful to sora's source material lmao

[@JonathanScarlet]

I'm guessing you kept to more of an air combo game with abilities like the one that lets you basically do infinite air attacks while your MP is recovering? I more preferred a ground combo to air combo style myself (combo on ground, ground finisher 1, eruption, air combo, air finisher 1, air finisher 2, with combo extenders included as wanted), but I can't say I don't see the appeal.

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

⁠@@JonathanScarletExplosion is a busted combo finisher in conjunction with guard break. But did you know that you could mix magic in the middle of your combos and every magic move has its own finisher. You can start a combo with magic and end it with magic but melee attacks are sprinkled in between the two. It’s actually crazy what you can come up with when you realize THAT’S HOW YOU CHARGE THE DRIVE GAUGE EFFICIENTLY!!

[@JonathanScarlet]

@@infinityheart_tm9270 I knew that magic moves have their own finishers (on the ground, I'm pretty sure IIRC magic in KH2 doesn't have a unique finish in the air regardless of form), although it just never occurred to me that you could weave it in around melee hits; that or it did and I never found it to be worth my time. Still, I don't...think I ever cared about filling the drive gauge? It's been a long time since I 100% it on PS2 so I don't remember what my thought processes were.

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

@@JonathanScarlet Well that’s what Final Mix is for. Go play Critical mode

[@JonathanScarlet]

@@infinityheart_tm9270 I think I have a FM version on PS3, which I might try at some point once I get a controller that doesn't have nearly a second of lag on inputs. Although, even then it might be awhile as I have other things I'm focusing on.

[@lasercraft32]

Bowser can stay the same... Just so long as he gets his REAL voice. I don't get Sakurai's obsession with making the heavyweight villains so "beastly." Even Dedede for some reason has a deep monster voice (which is much less monster-like in the Kirby games).

[@sonoftheway3528]

Didn't Sakurai create and voice Dedede?

[@Shard_vs]

@@sonoftheway3528 yes he did

[@JuanCarlos-vq1cj]

Give him fireballs instead of firebreath and also change some normals to be more inspired in canon

[@HeckYep]

I like Bowser but he needs a shakeup badly, he's a grappler with bad throws which just makes him a worse DK for the most part. IMO they should spice up his claw attacks and make him a into a kind of superheavy short-range swordie with faster smashes and better pokes at the expense of his grappling. And I agree with the other guy, give him a fireball. It's 2024; heavies/grapplers can have projectiles.

[@lasercraft32]

@@sonoftheway3528 Yes but that doesn't make it any less outdated.

[@kostrew659]

Always thought Pikachu would be better as a starter character since he's super recognizable to newcomers, but he just doesn't feel very beginner friendly with how complex his up-b and the rest of his gameplay is like.

[@HuneeBruh]

Is his up b really that complicated though? Like I guess it’s more than most other up bs but it’s literally just 1 or 2 dashes depending on where you angle it

[@RinZDR]

@@HuneeBruh When I play online I always die when I play him (I play random) because the 2nd quick attack just doesn’t fucking come out and im not sure if its the lag, me being bad with him or both, so yeah its not super beginner friendly compared to most up b recoveries since most of them are just a one and done thing

[@RinZDR]

If it was more like greninjas where the second part of it always comes out regardless of your imput, I’d say it would be a lot better “accessibility” wise, makes it much easier for beginners while keeping its unique traits

[@HuneeBruh]

@@RinZDR the way quick attack works is that it can't go in the same angle twice, so you have to aim to where you want to go after the first one comes out, you also don't need to press the special button twice

[@RinZDR]

@@HuneeBruh Yeah I know that as I said im just bad with the rats

[@lasercraft32]

The only reason I can think of for Bowser Jr. not using the brush more is because of his palette swaps being the Koopalings... But even then, their Final Smashes still use the brush. They could have done some kind of workaround, like replacing the brush with those wands the Koopalings have (which they already do to replace Bowser Jr's hammer).

[@castform7]

@@lasercraft32 To be honest, I don't know why a hammer is used instead of his paintbrush. Like I don't need a paint based Jr. moveset, I don't get the hate the clown car sometimes gets but a nice middle ground would be replacing the generic Hammer Bro hammer with the paintbrush and maybe making the wands longer to compensate.

[@dc_dachi]

Shulk is done reasonably well. Shulk is a relatively simple fighter in Xenoblade 1, but the Monado Arts form the mechanical core of his kit. Like in Smash, the real skill involved when controlling Shulk is deciding how and when to apply each Art in a given situation. I think taking this sort of mediocre swordsman and augmenting his kit with Monado Arts in Smash makes a lot of sense and fits the character nicely. Visions form another important mechanic in Xenoblade, though they aren’t really done that great in Smash. A counter move isn’t an unreasonable implementation, but I’d have loved for Vision to have more defensive utility or even interact with Monado Arts somehow, as those two mechanics are nearly inextricable from one another in XC. No, I think my main problem with Shulk in Smash is that his Back Slash fucking sucks lol. This is one of his most iconic Arts in Xenoblade: it’s his Fireball, his Spin Attack, his Homing Attack. Often, your main gameplan with Shulk revolves around finding ways to sneak Back Slash damage into a fight and get away without drawing too much aggro. It should really have more utility than as a niche airdodge read and high recovery tool.

[@celestia74]

seconded and adding a personal gripe on too Can we please make Back Slash actually look like the games? The thing is a jumping slam attack and it currently feels like he just falls forward on opponents.

[@benross9174]

The problem is in XB1 RPG-wise Shulk is the «Rogue» character; simular to Fiora. Reyn is supposed to tank and hold aggro while Shulk is more fragile. Backslashes and sacrifising his health for damage enforces this. And balance wise thats hard to due since you cant shrink the Monado; it has to be as big as it is therefore Shulk needs bad frame data for balance reasons. Vision should be a lot better though; maybe make it work like Foresight? I dont know how to improve backslash though; its kinda good vs bairspammers like Palu and Cloud as a mixup but at the end of the day you are adapting a move designed around 3D movement and positioning in a 2D game

[@JonathanScarlet]

​@@benross9174 I think Shulk is the only character that should have a Foresight-style bit in his kit because Vision and Monado Arts are the two key parts of his fighting style, but the concept in general seems poorly thought out for the reasons Mock talked about. It does need to at least be frame-tight (maybe only 2-3 frames of room instead of just 1 to avoid a lot of spamming), though. I'm not saying Bayonetta shouldn't be rewarded for tight execution as that seems to be a key component in her source game (and maybe that carries for Mythra, though I've never watched a playthrough of XC2), but to me Shulk is the only one that should get that kind of "get of of jail to reversal" kind of move.

[@dc_dachi]

@@JonathanScarlet Both Bat WIthin and Foresight "make sense" in the context of the source material,. It doesn't makes any "more" sense for Shulk to have it, and tbh, it's a pretty bad mechanic for a fighting game in the first place so I'd rather see it not implemented as it is in Smash. A unique parry mechanic would be fine, but mapping it to a mashable dodge button that requires no precision is very annoying design. Bat Within in Bayonetta is a defensive technique performed by dodging just as you're hit by an attack, triggering Witch Time. Mythra's Foresight is actually very similar to Shulk's Visions lorewise, Shulk's just has stronger glimpses of the future, which is why his is an entire Special move while Mythra's is mapped to dodging. In XC2, Foresight grants a flat evasion modifier to your party, which is actually incredibly powerful and allows you to dodge lots of damage.

[@aidanthegamer5]

While I do also tend to lean more into the "if you have a reference, you should use it" camp, I don't think "this new game gives this character a bunch of new abilities, therefore those new abilities should be in Smash" is a valid line of logic because, even if you disregard that most abilities and game mechanics are exclusive to one game (or a few at most), not everything works specifically for Smash. As a massive Sonic fan, I do agree that his moveset needs retooling, but I also don't think a bulk of that should come from Frontiers. In my eyes, the statements "the most recent game represented in Mario's moveset came out in 2002 and that should probably be fixed" and "F.L.U.D.D. is a unique idea that should be kept in Mario's moveset" are not mutually exclusive, and can both be true.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Yeah. I definitely think referencing abilities when able should be the priority but always trying to chase the latest release for moveset ideas, especially for series like Mario, Sonic and pokemon that are always gonna get a new game at a very frequent pace, isn't the way to approach that.

[@leohernandez8751]

Plus in Sonic’s case, I do agree his move set DESPERATELY needs an upgrade at this point, however just making his moveset entirely based on Sonic Frontiers would seem kinda forced at best. A mixup of more source material like his boost mechanic from the modern boost games that depletes over time to try and stop campy players since they would be at a disadvantage for Sonic’s lack of initial momentum. He can get his eagle kick from Sonic Battle, whenever he lands a hit with his homing attack he can trick off the opponent and show off to the crowd, Sonic in his idle animation would show frustration if the player isn’t actively moving, he can do one of his flashy throws from Heroes by using his Sonic Wind attack for his up throw for example, he can trick in the air while air dodging to avoid projecting and incoming attacks, his colors (if they insist on keeping his costumes shades of blue) could be his many outfits across the entire series and if they do change his colors can be ACTUAL references to his many friends and enemies (Yellow-Orange for Tails, Red for Knuckles, Pink with Ring wristbands for Amy, Green with Orange shades and Jet’s boots for Jet, Black with Shadow’s hover shoes and inhibitor rings for Shadow and a funny Eggman “costume” with a glued on fake mustache and Eggman’s goggles and shoes to match. The possibilities are literally endless with how to reboot Sonic’s moveset WITHOUT making his playstyle “Stock Lead equals run away from my opponent the whole game” and more “Actively keep on the pressure on my opponent while being as flashy as possible”.

[@kingbode2611]

Weirdly enough I don't think FLUDD is a well designed tool for a character centered around fundamentals and teaching players how to play. Mario should have some quirkiness, but not on his down special. If I were to propose something I'd repurpose do something similar to Luigi's poltergust. Have him wield it during his throws. Side Throw would push players forward, and for some Mario needed zaniness I'd give his up throw an advantage state with Rocket Nuzzle. Propel him upward so Mr. Jumpman gets to the air. And Down/Back throw could be combo and kill throws.

[@Point5_]

I don't think peach having a new game with an expanded moveset makes her feel outdated. Most characters should be general representations of the character as a whole instead of a particular iteration of the character. Some moves from the new game would be cool, but I disagree to say that it's to the point of making her feel outdated

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Get ready for Smash 6 to cut characters, but have the returning veterans be basically the same as previous games

[@blocks4857]

The best of both worlds

[@fruitpun6h]

As long as they don’t touch Pac-Man idgaf who’s in the game or not

[@Porygo]

Ah yes, the Pokémon approach

[@elilopez6260]

And it'll sell 30 million copies

[@lasercraft32]

As a Rosalina Main who grew up playing Mario Galaxy... Rosalina is nearly PERFECT. My _only_ complaint is that there isn't enough of that iconic Spin Attack from Galaxy in her moveset (the same spin attack she was given in 3D World).

[@Geneolgia]

I like to think they tried to capture the essence of the spin attack with nair but because it is a nair they did it vertical instead of horizontal, oh there's Luma's flurry attack too

[@castform7]

@@lasercraft32 I think maybe the Spin could work as a new Neutral Air that has a unique property of stalling in the air to reference the midair jump without explicitly giving Rosa a second midair jump.

[@lasercraft32]

Some people don't like it when they make up attacks that aren't references to anything (a notable one being Inkling's kicking attacks, which has nothing to do with the Splatoon games) but I honestly really like it when they do that, so long as its not excessive (like with Mario). Inkling's forward air is one of the most satisfying attacks in their moveset imo. I mean if you think about it, characters like Captain Falcon wouldn't even be in Smash Bros. if they didn't make up random moves for him to use, so it definitely has its place.

[@internetguy7319]

as someone whose favorite nintendo franchise is splatoon, i care less about the random kick and more that they chose to make inkling exclusively a splatoon 1 character. splatoon 2 was over a year old when smash ult came out and while I get that inkling was probs planned and made in 2016 or so, I still wish they at least made a Octoling that references the Splatoon 2 stuff. For non Splatoon fans it may sound weird, but Octoling has an opportunity for an entirely new moveset referencing Splatoon 2. Inkjet, Tenta Missiles, Dualies, Nautilus, Explosher, Clash Blaster and other stuff referencing the Octo Expansion campaign leaves more than enough material

[@internetguy7319]

also smash misses out on a lot of iconic stuff in splatoon 1, too. kraken, inkzooka, main examples and for those who dont pay attention to splatoon, splatoon 2 / 3 also have an entirely different artstyle than splatoon 1 too which makes the smash rep even more awkward

[@lasercraft32]

@@internetguy7319 True.

[@castform7]

@@lasercraft32 I actually would disagree with Mario's being excessive. Keeping FLUDD all this time is kinda dumb not gonna lie that's the only thing I would change. All of his Smash moves are either iconic to the series or work really well with each other while still feeling like something Mario would do. I don't see the need to add something even with Mario's history. What we have now works really well especially for the archetype and playstyle Mario has.

[@simnm8057]

Marios issue is that his moveset is not intuitive at all which is a massive diservice to his character

[@Mr.Cynical]

I personally still think Link should be the standard one doing all the standard Link things, because no matter how much you slice it, the point of the character is to be the standard Link. He's not like Toon Link or Young Link, who have specific games to pull from. He's supposed to be the Link that changes through every Smash title. I'm cool with him getting more changes (those kicks do need to go), but changing him drastically and modernizing him would kinda miss the point of his character in Smash.

[@lolchipperson11person12]

Fair, but then again. Link from TOTK has a lot of potential. If they are to keep regular link, maybe separate totk link from the regular link. Then make regular link, like link from ocarina or something. His moveset at was made from OOT.

[@CrazyHand7894]

I disagree. Link being the default makes sense, but it's also the boring option. In my opinion, it should be Young Link that has that role. "Base" Link is a character that mixes straightforward projectiles with his sword moves. With adult Link, it leads to a very defensive and zoner-y playstyle since his frame data needs to be middling to compensate. If Young Link is given that moveset, his better frame data and movement speed leads to much more dynamic and visually interesting games. The frame data and power of said projectiles just need to be adjusted as to not get Fire Arrow spam like in Ultimate, but the point stands. Having adult Link as a more complex and set-up heavy character feels like a far better direction to take him to make him more fun to play as and to watch.

[@lolchipperson11person12]

@@CrazyHand7894 True, Young link as base link makes more sense. The game that he comes from is also the game the original links move-set is based off of.

[@gabcard2767]

I’m also not really a fan of giving Link a massive overall. Imo, making it too specific to a single game would make it feel even more outdated once that new Zelda games come out. Current moveset focus on the essentials of what make Link, well, Link, no matter what title he’s from.

[@finalmix4375]

I think if Min Min had more end lag on her ARMS she would work MUCH BETTER than how she plays now. ARMS is often about bait and punishing where the opponent is going to dash, in Smash Min Min can just throw ram ram and cover almost everything.

[@thecalabian]

I think Sora just needs an MP bar - here me out. In KH1, the way to regain your MP, and therefore your access to spells, was to actually land physical damage on your opponent. This encouraged the player to actually interact with enemies instead of camping them out like you can potentially do in later games with MP recharge. This would also carry over into smash; it could work similar to Robin's resource management mechanic, with the tweak that it refreshes once pyshical damage is dealt. This overall would make Sora less campy and more fun.

[@theimpersonator7086]

If they go with the Kh1 route then yeah, but Sora also needs to be able to get Gravity and Stop imo

[@ridgenyan-botxv367]

Why would Sora need an MP bar? Hero already has that and the problems with Sora that Mockrock brought up were due to the over emphasis of his N-air loops. Instead of using a wide variety of attacks like in his games, Sora is reduced to N-air loop the character. I could see it being useful if he had more magic, but I think that'd just bloat the main idea behind the character design. He should be more versatile than he is, but he should not be so much more complicated, I think.

[@felixdaniels37]

Yeah, because that worked SO well in making Hero an aggressive character. The last thing we need is MORE characters that require MP management.

[@sonoftheway3528]

@@felixdaniels37 Wouldn't Hero be broken without it?

[@sashakucher261]

So hero? Thats just hero.

[@kybrogre1310]

Admittedly only up to Kirby when I’m commenting this, but I wanted to mention that if any character could free up the “Tutorial” character (allowing Mario and Kirby to be more creatively free), why not let that role be taken up with the Mii Fighters? Three different characters, three different play styles and tools each uses, giving players a chance to learn different ways, as well as the Special Move gimmick being unique. Also gives the players a chance to literally play as themselves, which could bring a closer feeling to *you* learning.

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, the three types would inherently lend to teaching about swordies, brawlers, and Samus-like projectile users.

[@EarthhGaming]

Lowkey they already do that

[@HuneeBruh]

The only problem is most people that are gonna be new to the game are gonna pick the characters they recognize, they’re probably not gonna pick the miis

[@paulakroy2635]

I very much don’t think new players are ever going to gravitate towards miis. Especially because they are a gimmick of choosing special moves

[@georget4141]

because no one wants to play mii characters. every little kid is gonna pick mario and kirby

[@MatttGFX]

the way I view Mario and Kirby as the ones with "show you how the game works" movesets is that Kirby's gives players a feeling of what the outline of a moveset generally is, while Mario's shows you what unique things movesets can do Kirby's forward smash is a simple kick with straight forward hitboxes, Mario's has a sweetspot that makes you consider spacing. Most of Kirby's specials fulfill general attacking purposes, while Mario has a reflector and a chargeable special move that just pushes people away that show players the less conventional functions some special moves can bring with them, etc they need some updates here and there to make them feel just a bit more fresh, but I think breaking away from those outlines in the process would be a little unfortunate

[@djdrizzy9139]

Kirby can represent his canon abilities and still fulfil that role; it's not mutually exclusive. He's only been overtly simple because of limitations, but he would NOT play like this as a dlc character. Kirby has so many abilities with full movesets, yet it's still beginner friendly. Smash would be no exception.

[@MatttGFX]

@@djdrizzy9139 I'm not saying we can't have both and I know he's not suggesting a full rework that breaks away from that role, I just wanted to give my perspective lmao

[@castform7]

@@djdrizzy9139 I don't feel like we could use the "if they were a DLC character" argument for Kirby because of his archetype. DLC comes out after the game is initially launched so DLC will usually naturally have more complex movesets or gimmicks unique to them. Kirby first and foremost is a character that teaches you the game and what does what. I think his current moveset is fine for what it's supposed to be (except Up B) and don't feel like adding abilities is necessary especially since he has 6 already represented in his moveset and technically 7 with his gimmick of copying a character's Neutral B.

[@djdrizzy9139]

@@castform7 If Kirby were dlc or included in Smash after Brawl, he'd match his series more. Kirby has unlimited potential with his canon powers; there's even a Kirby fighting game dedicated to this concept! Why does he have to remain the same basic character from the 64 days 25 years ago? It's time for him to be modernised and fully represent the games he's from, and the powers modern Kirby fans know him for. Even if you think he should keep the same generic kicks and the same specials, why do that when he's been the same for over 2 decades? A modern take on Kirby is a big win for casual and competitors alike, and he still would be a "basic" character.

[@castform7]

@@djdrizzy9139 Yes and that Kirby fighting game has entire movesets based around one ability. Fire isn't using Ninja's Blossom storm. Kirby doesn't need to be this chimera of different abilities and like I said he's a beginner character, something that doesn't work with the "if they were DLC" argument. All of Kirby's moves have very clear indicators of what they do and where they send (except Up B, the one massive problem I have with the moveset). There's a cleaness there that becomes lost as he pulls out a weapon or new power. Just like Yoshi, I don't think there's much here that needs fixing or modernizing.

[@totalradlad]

My idea for fixing Min Min would be to add some way to damage her arms. I haven't played the game in a while, but I recall that there was a mechanic in Arms where your arms could be damaged, which would keep you from attacking and would slow you down. If they added that to Smash in some way, it would force her to actually approach to avoid getting punished by spamming her arm attacks.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

That is indeed a thing. Tbh an ARMS fan I think Min is a great representation of that game in a 2d platform format so have no qualms (i don't really give af about smash scenes competetive balance). But your idea could work, ARMS characters can indeed fight perfectly fine up close. Also helps she's the one character that emphasizes kicking most, which smash already implements. So her reverting into a nerfed up close brawler while her arms are disabled for a couple secs is a cool idea. As for HOW you'd disable her arms, that's the tricky part. In the game itself they can actively be targeted by the opponent, broken during shield break or by arms with the electric element. I think smash the only method that can work would be shield break.

[@mschmalfeldt]

As a die hard Simon main, i wish he would take more cues from Super Castlevania than Castlevania on the NES. This would allow him to have true 8 way whipping, better air control, and could possibly even introduce the double or triple shot, allowing him better use of his arsenal.

[@TheRantingOne]

Why do you mean Simon? Do you find him fun? Do you think people have fun when they play you?😢

[@mschmalfeldt]

​@TheRantingOne I main Simon because I'm a huge fan of Castlevania and I've been playing them since the early 90s. Simon is my favorite videogame character and I've wanted him in since before Brawl came out. I truly don't care if the person on the other end is having fun. That's on them.

[@ridgenyan-botxv367]

@@mschmalfeldt lol that's such a cruel sounding response, but I think that, as long as a character is well designed, they will be fun to play as and against

[@superminingbro4037]

​@@mschmalfeldtBased. Simon was my first main in Ultimate for similar reasons

[@NCozy]

@@TheRantingOne They're a low tier bruh. That's on you if you can't beat them.

[@Aidswayz]

25:20 MockRock suddenly transforms into Jack Black Minecraft Steve

[@polygonheadman851]

Why

[@MrGameguyC]

LOL

[@waffleman8053]

"I... am Steve."

[@Point5_]

I think Steve not being able to build any actual builds isn't that bad when you consider the things he builds look a like lot what pvp players do: just builds that seem nonsensical but are useful to the player. I also don't see how you could make him build a house and have it be useful to the gameplay.

[@Sanngot]

As an avid Splatoon player, I think you're spot on with your reasoning for putting Inkling in the "needs an overhaul" category. You already mentioned the biggest issue being movement and inking the stage. Some hidden Splatoon lore is that Inkling ink evaporates after a while, so that could come into play when it comes to covering the stage in ink. Another thing I would bring up is that Inkling never punches or kicks in their source game. But they do have melee-like attacks in the form of rollers, brushes and splatanas (which is basically Splatoon's version of a sword). Incorporating those more to replace Inkling's kicks and punches would be better, IMO. It would also make ink management even more important, and ink management is VITAL in Splatoon. Much less important, I think Inkling should just be called Agent 3 next time, and if there is an Octoling, call them Agent 8. The actual names of the playable characters in the story mode of Splatoon games. I have a lot of Splatoon opinions. 🙃

[@dysr]

I’d say that using the species name for the character is better, and keep the single player character represented with an alt like it is right now with alt 3 wearing the hero suit. Even though every cephaling you see in online matches is an agent, that’s not the case canonically and just the species names are much more recognisable. Those codenames don’t represent every playable character either, since the main inkling of Splatoon 2 is Agent 4 and new Agent 3 can also be an octoling.

[@Neoxon619]

Realistically, they probably aren’t going to get an overhaul considering how recently Inkling joined Smash. If anything, whatever new ideas they come up with could go to Octoling as a semi-clone, especially since Splatoon is probably going to get a second distinct character next game.

[@iponce2]

​@Neoxon619 personally, I think the recency of Inkling's inclusion makes it way easier to overhaul their moveset. They've only had a single game to be defined, unlike Mario or Samus. Although I think they could shake it up a little across the board, recency can go to the wind.

[@Sanngot]

@@dysr That’s fair. Though at this point, Agent 3 has worn many distinct outfits. IMO, it would be very cool if you could choose corrupted agent 3 from octo expansion as an alternate skin. That being said, calling it Inkling would make things a lot simpler.

[@Sanngot]

@@Neoxon619 Yeah, I was going with a more ideal scenario rather than a realistic on XD. What I would personally do if I was in charge of updating the move set for inkling.

[@RedBoi88]

You know how Inkling can refill their ink with shield+b? Give more characters a shield+b move, like make that how Pokemon Trainer switches Pokemon, thus opening the Pokemon to have a real down b (Charizard's rock smash)

[@JonathanScarlet]

I like this, although I think we'd have to make sure it also works in mid-air so they don't accidentally spot-dodge instead of switching. I'm not as convinced that everyone needs a shield-b move (although admittedly that's more of me not knowing what to give them in the first place), but I do feel like some could use it more than others.

[@CrazyHand7894]

Personally, I'd give Charizard a new move for his down b and have Rock Smash be his new f-smash.

[@masterofdoots5965]

How switch mid-air?

[@HG-1318]

If we have to wait longer for Smash 6 compared to Ultimate because of major character changes, I would be fine with that.

[@tannerarmstrong1496]

Yes, sonic needs a moveset rework... but the most important thing is that he needs his "You're to slow!" taunt back.

[@leohernandez8751]

Sonic’s other taunt “C’mon! Step it up” is underrated in my opinion. Although this and his iconic “You’re too slow!” just OOZE personality for Sonic which he was sadly missing since Brawl. Plus I wish he’d actually trick off the opponent after landing a successful hit with his homing attack.

[@lasercraft32]

I've never been satisfied with the representation of the Pokemon characters in Smash Bros... Pikachu in particular is super iconic, and yet it doesn't even use Thunderbolt or Iron Tail in its moveset (both moves used regularly by Ash's Pikachu, literally the most iconic Pikachu in existence and the reason its the mascot in the first place). Its uses Thunder _Jolt_ which isn't even a real move (they took it from one of the cards), and for some reason Quick Attack deals electric damage... I was going to complain about Skull Bash too, since it can't learn it in newer generations, but as it turns out Pikachu can learn it in Gen 1 (and ONLY Gen 1), which is actually a pretty cool detail since it means this Pikachu has been around since the beginning of the series... That said, its weird that Skull Bash ALSO deals electric damage despite being a normal type move (especially dissapointing because that heavy THWACK sound effect would be so satisfying on that move). And don't even get me STARTED on Lucario... I hate how he was designed in every facet.

[@luciatheorphan]

electric and fire damage as a whole really needs to be removed or reworked

[@castform7]

@@lasercraft32 To be honest I'm not sure how you make Thunderbolt accurate to the source material while also not being annoying (or, significantly more annoying). It would probably have to be a long range projectile considering how it's portrayed and Pikachu does not need one of those. Another idea could be Up Smash but it would feel off for the move Pikachu's associated with to be just an Up Smash. Iron Tail could probably fill that role though. Just take Pikachu's current Up Smash and make it glow (or make it look like Steel like in the Unova anime). As for Lucario, dear god he is awful. Aura as a mechanic doesn't make sense (not in a Revenge sort of way where I get the idea even if liberties were taken, like they just made something up because Aura doesn't really work like this) but there's only like 3 moves he has which actually feel good to use. If they wanna keep Aura...fine. It's integral to Smash Lucario and I'm not sure how you would adapt the more sensory based game Aura into Smash but I need a new moveset.

[@benross9174]

@@castform7if they replace Tjolt with a beam attack like ROB or Kazuya as thunderbolt I wouldnt complain. Would also slightly nerf him which is a plus Also in Pokken Pika has EWGF which is hilarious conceptually but probably shouldnt be in Smash

[@jazzerjaw]

For Dedede specifically, I think the main thing that kinda caused him to veer into the heavy ledgetrap emphasis was them overnerfing him after Brawl. I agree with their decision to entirely change dair, Brawl dair would be way too good of a disadvantage tool if they kept it the same, especially now with the reduced landing lag, but they could've at least kept Brawl bair (with a bit less ludicrous power) and he would have a fine enough keep-away neutral with some grappler aspects to him. He already has a combo throw, so if you just give him a button he can use more willingly in neutral he becomes a lot more free-form and less of a specialist. They added the grab-lockout timer and just additionally nerfed characters who could chain grab's throws way too much.

[@noirox4891]

I am very suprised you didn't mention Sheik's Hyrule Warriors appearance as a possible inspiration! In that game, she is entirely harp-focused, with all the elements on different combo attacks and a special that changes based on which element she last used. It's super fun and creative and would work amazingly in Smash I think.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Its funny i was ranting to myself about this exact issue with smash shiek vs hw shiek in my head at work the other day before watching this. As well adjusted normal adults do.

[@mbmproductions9217]

this video made me realize something about how I perceive smash characters: I care about the actual mechanics and overall design direction of characters a lot more than how well they represent their home games. when you started talking about how marth has slowly been pushed out of his role as the game's basic bitch fundies swordie in favor of lucina and how they had to emphasize his tippers to the point of becoming gimmicky in the process, I found that part absolutely fascinating... and then you got to young link and ganon and went on about how the zelda rep in smash is stinky and my eyes started glazing over. not saying you're doing anything wrong with your content, that's just what I've realized in the first 26 minutes and 59 seconds of this vid edit: just finished the video, feel mostly the same. I still think the focus on home series representation shuts down more of the interesting mechanical and game design discussion and also makes some of the tier placements for characters you otherwise like the direction of look more negative than I think you intended

[@felixdaniels37]

Videos like these are kind of annoying to sit through because they tend to miss the fact that these characters are supposed to be believable above all else. Sure, some references here and there are cool. But having entire movesets be composed of references and callbacks falls into the NASB issue of characters feeling more like Flanderized, obnoxious parodies, rather than the actual character.

[@RinZDR]

I think you can have characters having cohesive movesets while also actually feeling like you’re playing the character, Ganondorf barely even feels like himself and even if you want to argue that his moveset is cohesive he is still dogshit anyways so why can’t he get more stuff from the source material? As long as it fits with the rest of the moveset and makes him more unique I think both things can coexist, especially since smash is a crossover game and not just an original fighting game with ocs

[@jonathanlgill]

@@felixdaniels37 Agreed, that's a great way to put it. Now, the N64 characters definitely need more modern movesets, as it's a lot of kicking and basic punches. But I care about if the character's personality and mechanical design shine through in their toolkit, more than finding a reference for every move. "Flanderized parodies" is a good description of that extreme.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

It's funny im mostly the reverse. Not that i don't find the mechanical aspects interesting, but when videos like this get into their playstyle in competetive or what have you I tend to just tune it out. Though this video specifically i did find the description of character archetypes interesting

[@castform7]

I agree with Sonic's speed being the main issue here. A lot of people don't like his moveset (hell I didn't) but upon further inspection I think the main problem is Side B. If you take that out, Sonic has 4 ball moves (5 if you want to be pedantic with Down Throw) which is a fair number because he mostly attacks in ball form in the games. Something I would do is make him slower (still the fastest but not to the point he blitzes Falcon) and add the Boost as a Side B to have some bursts of speed without a hotbox (Kinda like how it works in Frontiers. However, the Boost meter only goes up if Sonic hits his opponent and will slowly decrease by itself so that Sonic is incentivized to attack his opponent. That's not the only thing I would change, Sonic Eagle (the aerial spike from Sonic Battle) feels like a necessity and I'd also want to find a place for the spin kick from the Sonic Advance series but everything else moveset was is solid and it's weird seeing people (to be fair including myself) get mad at Sonic fighting in a ball....which is part of what he's known for.

[@varietychan]

I agree with your stance on Mario being outdated. Mario in Smash 64 was meant to reference the Mario games at the time, being Mario 64, Mario Bros, Mario World, etc. By that philosophy, the references should be updated

[@VivienVarga-ki3sd]

varietychan they were updated cappy is an odessey reference and 3d all stars is a collection of the older 3d games and that came out after ultimate. Also nostalgia baiting is a thing and Nintendo loves doing that

[@shajita]

Mostly agree with everything. Only thing I disagree with is removing the auto-turn from the Fighter characters. I completely get your arguments, but cross-up protection aside, I really like what it adds to the game feel of them and I would despise seeing it removed.

[@monikasalt]

I also like the auto turnaround mechanic, though the whole cross ups thing does seem annoying, so what I would personally do is make it so whenever any of the fg characters are doing an attack, or they're continuously performing attacks like ryu spamming down tilt, make it so he won't turn around until the player stops spamming the move, it may feel a little clunky but it's what I think could make it less "cheesy" I guess

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

I remember a lot of people back during Ultimate’s speculation days wanting a “Mii Archer” or “Mii Mage” type, but both of those are just Mii zoners like Gunner. However, taking several of Swordfighters current moves and giving them to a Mii Archer and then making Swordfighter more like Marth could be a great compromise

[@guythatdosethingssometimes2651]

I personally dont think jigglypuff needs to be majorly changed in any way. Like, sure, she doesn't really have too many modern references, but i dont think she's really needing for them. Most people who enjoy her enjoy her more for her presence in smash than they do in pokemon. In that regard, her smash design kinda usurps her original appearance in terms of which is more iconic. Her smash design is very distinct. She does things that no other character really does. Personally, I dont really think references would make her that much better or that changing her design would entirely be for the best. I'd be fine with adding some things as long as they maintain her core gameplay of 'floaty and annoying' Which is exactly what a balloon pokemon ought to be. Im also not really as set on references. I'm fine if they make things up as long as they still feel like things the characters would do. I mean, some characters do benefit more from references than others, but not jigglypuff as she doesn't exactly have an iconic pokemon moveset that people want to see. Or really any real presence in Pokémon at all. If you ask me, I'd literally just swap out roll out for dazzling gleam and maybe add some sparkly effects to some of her moves, and that would literally be it.

[@dabiskitt]

Honestly this.

[@castform7]

@@guythatdosethingssometimes2651 I totally agree. I'm just not a fan of how her problems were described. Above all else, Puff is a balloon. Of course she's gonna be floaty and focus on the air while also getting killed at like 60. It's the same logic I use for well made zoners. Don't enjoy fighting them but they're doing what they're supposed to. The only move I need gone is Rollout and I would probably replace it Disarming Voice to play a little more into the singing along with the Fairy typing. Other than that, on a rare occasion I can work without Pound and her Smash attacks have always been a little bland, but other than that I say she's more than fine. Hell, I'd even keep Puff Up.

[@guythatdosethingssometimes2651]

@castform7 I'm fine with overhauling most of her smash attacks and some of her grounded normals. It's not like they're really a priority to begin with. But I'd need some convincing in terms of swapping out most of her air based moves or pound. Pound has a very particular role in terms of puffs kit, so I don't really take the idea of replacing it lightly. And obviously rest stays. If anyone says otherwise, I will immediately disregard their opinions on the character.

[@waffleman8053]

I overall agree. But if they give her a fairy attack I just want it to fit with her kit. Don't just add it for the sake of it.

[@castform7]

@@guythatdosethingssometimes2651 Her Smash attacks are barely ever relevant so I would take at least Down Smash and Up Smash being changed. Her aerials get no critique and there's a reason I said Pound goes on a rare occasion since it's so intertwined with how she works. And of course Rest stays. It doesn't work like it does in Pokemon but this is a massive exception due to how recognizable it is. If Puff doesn't have rest, it's not Puff.

[@WonkyWater-YT]

3:28 This. I really like the way BrawlFan1 goes about fan movesets and such. Playing the character in Smash should feel like playing them in their home game, except you're playing Smash. Mario, for instance, has gotta have more aerial mobility, be it the Propellor Spin as an Up B, or the ability to move whilst using Cape, something needs to be added. Potentially if you jump after landing on the stage, you can get a higher jump on the third, since Triple Jumps have been in almost every Mario game since 64. Maybe he gets a dive move, activated the same way you activate a Zair, which wouldnt deal damage but would move him forward and up a bit. 11:13 Taking Luigi, he IS a death machine jn his hime games in my eyes, and of not the fans have made him to be that, like the Luigi Death Stare, and the Luigi Wins by Doing Nothing clips - which have been acknowledged in an actual Mario game - just show this very well. He is a very goofy character but also one you don't want to piss off. I mean thats literally the plot of Luigi's Mansion: Boos steal his annoying older brother, he goes and faces his fears to save him back. I think his moveset can be modernised, give him some more vacuum stuff, maybe instead of Down B, and make his Up B go way higher, if not further, since he is the playable character with the highest jump in most Mario games, amd while youre at it make him slipperier too but thats enough.

[@RiDEL_Castro]

I heavily disagree with the sentiment towards Pikmin latching, I think it is too much a core of the Pikmin series to just trash it entirely. Change the specifics of how the move works sure but I don't think you should ever change that. That being said I think leaning Olimar in a more puppet direction would be the way to go, my idea was swap neutral special and down special and turn the neutral special into a command whistle. Make it where you can throw or set down Pikmin at different parts of the screen then press the special button + direction (similar to monado wheel) to command Pikmin to attack in that direction. Oh of course I'd also make all his smash attacks have new animations with more personality in them and change his grab animation to have Olimar motion a grab with his own hands to better visualize the action. I'd change more mostly on the aesthetic end but I think putting him in "Burn it to the Ground" is way too harsh for literally one or two problems that can be easily changed

[@Glory2Snowstar]

We need a biblical rapture for Sonic's moveset. For Ganondorf, the canon powers would be a great addition but he's already pretty fun. Give him a Peach float and a Neutral B volley projectile and he should be all set!

[@osprey_06]

isn't that just how they did it in project M?

[@BringBackOGClubPenguin]

Imo he shouldn’t have a peach float, because ganon shouldn’t be a technical character, if you give him a float it should be like in a smash mod (can’t remember which one) where they give him the float as a move where he moves around in the air really fast and smooth, and you can cancel it with a move.

[@Chesse291]

@@BringBackOGClubPenguin hewdraw remix

[@castform7]

@@Glory2Snowstar In my opinion Sonic's moveset isn't that bad. Yes, either Spin Dash or Spin Charge needs to go but I don't mind the rest of his moveset if I'm being honest.

[@EarthhGaming]

Sonic is perfectly fine aside from maybe spin dash clashing or beating projectiles. He fights like how you would expect sonic to fight. The approach they took towards making sonic make sense is the same approach they should have with the rest of the cast

[@punkypony5165]

Man I REALLY wish there were chapters in this video.

[@TheJackMouse]

*Mock, after having 15+ tiers and changing the names of several repeatedly throughout the video to the point of making them hopelessly vague:* You know what? New Tier

[@aab1254]

How is it that Icies being touch of death is okay because of "defined weaknesses" when Luigi too has a clear weakness in his extremely exploitable recovery? Yes, Luigi also has more games and inspiration he can pull from, but I frankly find this to be a strange take, considering Smash characters don't NEED inspiration to come from home games (otherwise Icies wouldn't even be playable).

[@HerMajestyVelvet]

Bc the Icies weaknesses are directly related to how it’s hard to get the touch of deaths Luigi’s only weakness doesn’t impact how hard it is for him to get a grab

[@davidbromfield8328]

Because one annoys him and the other has that Melee popularity

[@maugos]

I feel the same way. Smash needs to meet somewhere in the middle. Be a well made game that has strong mechanics, but also represent the characters properly enough. It's not about going for either extreme because it's a crossover game. You can't make it just a fighting game that doesn't care how the characters are represented because they all have fans that want to see the things they like about those characters show up. You also can't just make it a fan service game because more hardcore gamers want a game they can really learn and pick apart. Smash has been said to be a celebration of video game history and I take that to heart.

[@CharNatorn]

I think instead of Daisy being a clone, she should keep the same moveset while peach gets a new moveset. I love Peach's current playstyle, and this seems like the best way to keep that in smash 6

[@JEZ346]

Sephiroth will always follow Cloud no matter where he goes. 1:23:32

[@elaias4955]

Inkling could be very simmilar to etalus from RoA more than sylvanos. Make her ink the stage with specials, and make her normal speed on regular ground very low but make them fast while on ink. maybe even introduce DACUS to up-smash aswell

[@Terry_T_ODST]

As a wii fit main: WE DON'T NEED MORE RUSHDOWNS 😭 She's a hibrid character, having her rushdown mode being tied to a move instead of being completely baked in (as in pacman, for example). I do agree she needs changes, but mainly on the recovery side (the rings could honestly work better as a tilt) and making her hitboxes more consistent (but without too many changes though, she's a hilarious character to play already 😂)

[@TONyjustRoCks]

Good take as a fellow wii fit enjoyer myself. The only major change I would like for her is a way to cancel header quicker (from the ground?) so you can just spawn it and setup to use in creative ways.

[@sprytt]

Kazyua having so much invincibility is (at best) an extremely questionable balance choice, but it more so just doesn't reflect Tekken at all which like you mentioned is about intricate movement, but here's Kazuya brute forcing his way through every attack because he literally cannot be hit during half of them.

[@scrumblycat]

I think that in order to push Lucas further, he needs to incorporate the rhythm mechanics from his home game. Making some of the multi hits do a bit extra damage if you press the A button in the correct rhythm would push the skill ceiling for tryhards and add more options to them as well

[@snuffysam]

Make the song pick for the map relevant lol, just like how the type of floor suddenly became relevant when Steve got added

[@falconfyre9286]

50:50 Popo finally finding out how king Sisyphus felt endlessly pushing a boulder up a hill

[@djdrizzy9139]

Kirby NEEDS to be updated. Giving him more variety with this canon abilities wouldn't overly complicate him; I mean, are beginners having a hard time playing Kirby games with full copy move sets? At the very least, all current copy specials need to be swapped, and he needs a projectile. Why doesn't the beginner character have a projectile? Not only would it be helpful, but it's canon.

[@sayzar9474]

Aegis is honestly fine in terms representation and concept. Rebalancing is all they need

[@kimaster5893]

I think DK should be a momentum based heavy hottake. ( His dash attack allows him to go off stage and is a better burst option )

[@silverpotato4272]

MockRock is one of the only Smash youtubers out there that will go this in depth talking about the game design behind Smash Bros and I love it. You are doing a great service to the community

[@Hi-fd4cw]

I would also add Vars III to this list, he’s knowledgeable about how the game really works as well (minus the cloud bias)

[@Jayquinator-X]

35:38 I love all the Lucas glazing here

[@castform7]

@@Jayquinator-X You must be one of the fabled 5 Lucas mains.

[@Jayquinator-X]

@@castform7 I am

[@cullenhutchison6528]

One could argue that switching to Shield Art during hitstun is the most faithful thing about Shulk's kit because pressing a defensive Monado buff while reacting to a vision is a key feature that the combat system is built around. It's just an example of a mechanic that works well in single player but feels like cheating in multiplayer.

[@WyattGoslingIsCool]

47:55 Hydropump should just be called Aqua Jet.

[@dc_dachi]

Aqua Jet is a physical attack though, whereas this move is a spray of water. Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s not just Water Gun. It has the same properties as Squirtle’s, and if they worried about double dipping… uh, Squirtle already uses Hydro Pump too so

[@Enndorii]

@@dc_dachi when does squirtle use hydro pump? final smash?

[@Eroil]

​@@dc_dachito have it be named different can call it water pulse

[@dc_dachi]

@@EnndoriiYeah, Squirtle is using Hydro Pump during Triple Finish.

[@Enndorii]

@@dc_dachi I see the point, but I don’t think it’s the biggest deal if the moves that overlap are a final smash and a move in their standard moveset

[@liv9520]

With Bowser. Just update his voice to sound like he does in every other game ever. Moveset is fine, just make him sound like Bowser.

[@liv9520]

Also. Bring back Brawl Ike's sound design

[@ReikuYin]

​@@liv9520Agreed. I want my forward airs to sound like mom smashing a bus into my opponent again.

[@Flashpoint221]

I kinda want him to shoot fireballs and use his minions somehow. Like how Dedede uses his Gordo.

[@PrettyKoolCrocodile]

As long as K. Rool stays. I'll be happy with Smash 6, he's my favorite design out of all the newcomers of base Ultimate, and I don't even mind his animalistic voice. References and animations galore, he plays like K. Rool which I can't say for other outdated veterans that deserve a fraction of this level of care. I just wish his drawbacks in his design for balancing were a bit less penalizing, some of them like crown as an item went a little too overboard imo. Also while I don't hate his alts, I wish they were more than just palette swaps, he has at least four possible costumes that would be perfect if we got half and half, which Smash should do more of imo, except for characters with alt skins that make sense like for Bowser Jr. Also the Ganondorf tier is literally perfect, I honestly call him the most shafted character of Smash, more than Sonic, he has next to nothing original when there's a lot to pull from. Sonic at least has a big one (while overcentralizing) and isn't a 21 year old carbon copy of another character in comparison.

[@TropicalFoggg]

i think most people hope k rool stays, he's practically become the fan-favorite superheavyweight, and they do have a good reason to like him. they did so well on him in terms of sounds, moves and animation. everything, basically. i do agree with that last part though.

[@Sticker_By_NCT_127]

Didn’t a lot of Sonic’s moveset copy other character’s moves? I believe they did that since he was rushed in Brawl

[@ZeRedSpy]

I feel like the “clones”/echo fighters are a great place to immortalize older movesets. You could modernize characters like Link or Mario and give them all new moves and then keep Toon Link and Dr Mario with the older moveset so that players don’t feel cheated out of their old play style.

[@Whalordius]

Heard "give him some better frame data" on mario and knew i was in for a treat. Anyways skipped to my mains. MK needs more creativity. Pythra needs some finer tuning. More or less something to make pyra and mythra stand out and have differences orher than "slow and stronk" and "fast and weaker."

[@ShyRanger]

10:00 For Fox I just really want a James McCloud alt costume. All they need to do is give him sunglasses, maybe alter the costume color a little bit, and that's all. It's an example of a costume that feels like very little work for a very big payoff. (I'm not a dev so if this is more work that I make it sound like, chalk that up to ignorance sorry."

[@lasercraft32]

As someone who's modded Smash Bros. back in the Brawl days, adding glasses to an alt would not be difficult in the slightest.

[@zacpadilla2432]

Sora is referencing newer games. His moveset is an extension of his alts. His special moves are present in every game that his alts references. Having KH1 Sora doing 2/3 stuff would feel awkward. Like having OOT Link having BOTW bombs. And KH1 Sora is by far the most iconic version of him.

[@weluvarii1141]

kh1 being the MOST iconic is definitely somewhat debatable since kh2 is basically the peak of the series and the most popular

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@weluvarii1141 Kh1 Sora's design and Worlds has been reused in a lot of the spinoffs. But ideally they would do Kh2 in S6

[@totalradlad]

I think they should still update it to be more like KH2/3. The style of combat used in KH1 and Smash just doesn’t represent most of the series very well, even though some moves are taken from later games.

[@jak199527]

Kh2 is the most liked one and set the standard of what kingdom hearts games are combat wise.

[@DaDMonDCB]

Considering how quickly they made the more fast based combat of 2 the template for the future, I absolutely reject the idea of 1 being the more iconic game. It was absolutely fun, but boy was 2 as much of an improved sequel as others consider Megaman 2/3 or Sonic 2/3 to their original games. And the majority of Sora's tech is pretty largely focused on KH1/FM, with his costumes being the main reference to the YEARS of content in sequels.

[@bcpeters1457]

You might be my favourite, if not, definitely in the top 5, KZbinrs on KZbin. The way you analyze each aspect of smash bros and home series is so entertaining. Most KZbinrs I just watch while doing stuff on the side, but I tend to watch your stuff with that stuff off. Love your stuff!

[@jeremytorres5622]

if you ever need a xenoblade brain rot specialist for pyra mythra and shulk changes ideas im your guy. starting with Shulk I generaly like the interpretation they took with the monado arts. In game they are actually for the most part they are a mix of buffs and just regular attacks, but I think instead making them all buffs kinda plays in xenoblade 1's MMO inspirations for its combat. In general the one main change I would love to see with shulk though is 2 fold. First off Shulk actually is kinda part of a support character in xenoblade 1 with a healing art and some party buffs and by the time of xenoblade 3 has this sorta dodge tank role. with that in mind I want to maybe tone down specifically monado speed and just give him a bit more general speed to compensate which goes hand and hand with my other change. I want shulk to have to think about his positioning more, Xenoblade and especially Shulk revolves alot on where you are in relation to enemy and you see that sorta with back slash but I think if they toned down his normal swing speed a bit but gave him more rewarding but more awkward angles for some moves, where you would have to almost "see into the future" to find a place where they would hit, It would give him a bigger focus on him having to care about where he is in relation to his enemy and have to make use of percise angles to maximize strength. Now Pyra and Mythra are kinda alot harder because you really dont control them for the most part. In 2's dlc you can use mythra in battle and all her attacks you can use there are represented in her specials, though I think for Photon edge they should use like a golden holographic looking outline of mythra (taken from how foresight is shown in cutscenes) in the center of it and have that be a universal hitbox for her during that move because that would make it alot more clear on what the counter play is. one thing thats kinda funny from being a huge fan of xenoblade 2 is that Pyra is kinda weak, like any challenge run of xenoblade 2 you will never see her. Like i said you never control Pyra in xenoblade 2 but even still it feels weird for Pyra to be like the killing one given that in Lore she was essentially made to be a limiter on Mythra so that Mythra wouldnt just lead to the death of hundreds of people. If I had it Ideally I kinda wish pyra was reworked to kinda be a bit more of a passive playstile, maybe using her fire to instead expand the hit boxes and being more focused around using Blazing end to keep people away from her. Kinda mirroring her more passive supportive and kinder persona to Mythras much more aggressive one. but i feel like that wouldnt be very popular and probably be worse than mythra though its not like pyra is used a ton already, I actually think Pyra should have a much better recovery than mythra at the very least because then maybe by making Mythra less extreme and strong, the aegis can be played more like a tempo character where you use Mythra when you need to be aggressive while you use Pyra when you need to be defensive

[@benross9174]

Problem is XB1 is a game based around positioning with things like Split Edge and Backslash and Smash is a 2D game. So its not too much you can do there; Shulk in Tekken would be fire though. And Vision not working in the air is a travesty; maybe make it more like Foresight? Although he might not have the frame data to take advantage of it tbf so maybe not. Also he isnt really a «healer», he has a single move that can heal. He is more of a Rogue RPG-wise As for Pneuma they should remove them and put in Rex instead. Or Noah/Mio in the next game. It feels weird that they arent even the main characters of their own game (basegame) yet are the XB2 reps in Smash

[@Kench154]

Ridley's design in Ultimate to me feels like Sakurai spiting the fanbase a little bit, like "Oh, you didn't believe me when I said he's too big? Watch this." And then makes a character with cramped postures, undersold animations, and just generally without everything that made him, him. I think Sakurai saw Ridley's bigness as being a core part of why he was interesting-e.g., if he's not big, then he's not as menacing, or brutal, or heavy, or able to spread his wings and fly good, etc.-and then, having decided that those things were all interlocked, deliberately stripped those away as well when making him smaller.

[@DragonMaster1818]

I love how MockRock spends over an hour of talking to make this and Sakurai will see this and give them a slightly different move at best and change nothing else

[@luciatheorphan]

so true

[@noathern]

Isn't Sakurai done with the series after ultimate? I'm moreso concerned with the direction whoever gets put on the series now will go

[@saturos5068]

​@@noathern he never said that, if anything he might take a break unless he does what he did after smash 4 and start on the next entry as soon as the final update was released

[@luciatheorphan]

@@noathern he's said that multiple times so i feel like it's kind of up in the air. iirc he's been on a 3 year hiatus from game dev so if smash has already started dev someone else would be directing?

[@DragonMaster1818]

@@luciatheorphan If someone else were to direct, would they lean the game towards casual or competitive?

[@leohernandez8751]

I agree with Sonic in the “BURN IT ALL TO THE GROUND!” tier. His move set has literally been rushed to get him in Brawl at all and it’s aged TERRIBLY is putting it nicely. Sonic needs to have a MASSIVE overhaul on his move set. Primarily implementing his boost mechanic to be based on how much momentum in terms of interaction the player HAS to do in order to fill the boost meter. If the Sonic player tries to play the camping game with this revamp, then they’ll be actively punished with weaker moves and less combo opportunities and that might encourage Sonic players to actively keep up the pressure on their opponents and be rewarded for it by gaining access to the boost and easier combo potential. Plus Sonic’s personality HAS to shine again by him tricking off an opponent after landing a homing attack, when he air dodges when an opponent is about to hit him or a projectile is about to land, he’ll do a mid air trick just to style on the opponent which is in character for Sonic to do similar to Bayonetta’s dodge and Mythra’s foresight. Plus Sonic’s costume pool gotta be improved to include proper references to his long library of friends and enemies (Yellow-Orange for Tails, Red for Knuckles, Pink with ring wristbands for Amy, Green with orange shades and red boots for Jet, a Black and red color scheme for Shadow complete with Shadow’s inhibitor rings and shoes, a on purpose horrible Eggman “costume” with a fake mustache, goggles and high black boots to mock Eggman and much more! If they gotta keep Sonic blue due to Sega mandates, then it can be Sonic’s many outfits throughout the entire series like his riders design, his Black Knight design, his Adventure/Adventure 2 designs, throw his Classic design a bone as an alternate costume etc.

[@JB_CY]

In terms of ones I feel strongly about. Hero can stay mostly the same. He's super unique and totally represents the genre his series helped pioneer. I wouldn't hate if his crits got removed and you toned down some of the crazier stuff for better normals, but the idea of a swordie with mediocre normals and great specials should stay imo. Samus is cool but I think she definitely could use some reworks. Her missles and charge shot don't really fit how they work in Metroid, and although her movement does feel similar to prime/super, as the main titles have gone on she's become more and more speedy. A samus with worse projectiles and better mobility and aggression would be cool imo. Add the melee counter, ice beam, some sort of speed boost, etc and she'd be awesome. Ridley definitely does have some great and fitting aspects to him. He feels menacing, scary, and controlling. But some of his moves are either really bad (down b, some of his throws), or look a bit lame to me (bair, fair) or both (dair). I do enjoy his tradeoff where he loses the typical heavy weight for a more speedy ranged big body design, but some of his moves could use some adjustments imo. All my opinion, and I love these 3 characters, but I figured it was worth sharing. Looking forward to watching the video!

[@theimpersonator7086]

For Hero, the main thing I want to see is just make better UI. Spells should have symbols, MP cost should be allowed to be viewed regardless of whether the Hero player is on the Spell, and ideally color coding.

[@brayanholguin5551]

I mostly agree with your take on Samus, but I think only Charge beam needs to be slightly nerfed. I would actually slightly buff misiles and S. misiles since they are a not very useful in Ult.

[@SirBiscuitman]

I once had a couple ideas for olimar, 1. make it so that if you hold down is down special, he can use swarm to manually control the pikmin 2. When the pikmin grab the opponent, they have to carry them towards olimar before he can perform any throws, so the farther the opponent is the bigger chance they have to escape (i’m not too sure about this idea), another idea is olimar grabs the enemies himself and the pummel can be used to cycle through the pikmin, with the pikmin themselves performing the pummels

[@polybent9748]

One thing I’m surprised wasn’t mentioned was Mega Man’s Charge Shot. I think it’d be cool to bake it into his jab

[@GoodWitchKirby]

I think it would be cool to work it in like they did in the MvC games; you should hold down A in order to start charging the shot, and you can move around while doing so.

[@jonathanlgill]

They represented it with his Forward Smash attack. I realize that it doesn't replicate how Mega Man uses it in-game, but running and charging doesn't fit the implicit 'rules' of Smash. I think a projectile Smash attack is very unique, and it keeps his Specials open for other parts of his movekit.

[@GoodWitchKirby]

@@jonathanlgill That is a fair point, though I was thinking that the charge shot would be a separate move from the forward smash and it would be far weaker than his current one. We can still replace the forward smash with another projectile. But hey, agree to disagree I guess.

[@ReikuYin]

​@@GoodWitchKirby Could be the Neutral B, and if doing that give it to Samus too..made no sense she roots to charge when that was never the case ever. I know for balance giving it's power but still.

[@azuquirtle]

The second I clicked on the video I was praying that there would be a Ganondorf tier just for Ganondorf and I'm so happy it showed up

[@SharurFoF]

Part of your argument for changing Link is that the other two Links can do the simple old Link stuff, but then with both Young Link and Toon Link, you want them to be changed as well.

[@jonathanlgill]

Yeah, not a fan of turning Young Link into Majora's Mask Link. Transformation masks admittedly could be really cool, but there have been so many Links that are boys, including the very first game. If anything he's the 'classic' Link while adult Link can represent the new open-world incarnations of the character.

[@snuffysam]

The only Majora’s Mask change I’d give to Young Link is Fierce Deity for the final smash. You can even keep the animation basically the same. Like the triforce slash is made up anyways. If he was a stance change fighter with four completely different movesets, he’d be way too much development time (33% more than Pokémon trainer) for a character that wouldn’t really feel like Link. And if he just transformed briefly for certain moves… congrats, you made boomerang have worse startup & endlag for no real reason? Honestly everyone always says up special should be Deku mask but that sounds dreadful (and spin attack is one of his & every classic Link’s most iconic moves!). If anything, it would be easier to work in the minor masks that lack transformations, like make the bomb mask his down smash. But that would still feel shoehorned in…

[@TheLobsterCopter5000]

Fun fact about Ness' Yo Yo, in Melee and Brawl there was a mechanic where he couldn't charge the Yo Yo moves if he was too close to a ledge, requiring you to tightly space the move to edgeguard with it.

[@nathanpeereboom761]

As a fan of the Splatoon series and an ex-Inkling main, you nailed my thoughts on the character perfectly. (Also, I main Etalus in Rivals, so that probably also contributes)

[@ShallBePurified]

I was really hyped for Inkling. And after playing them for a while, I didn't just want to play a back air machine. So I played Cloud instead...

[@nathanpeereboom761]

@@ShallBePurified So you swapped to another bair machine? 😂 jk. Same story here, but I switched to Link (then later Rosa)

[@RysGameZ]

35:58 I personally really like the idea of Sonic having a momentum mechanic, where unlike most characters, he doesn't start off at maximum speed. Instead he has to build up speed and momentum. Which really fits with Sonic's classic series.

[@jaredparks4713]

All I want out of Sora is for counter to send projectiles back to sender. It does that in KH so I don't know why it doesn't in Smash.

[@ReikuYin]

I'd love reflect over the counter,.works the exact same way after all.

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

Kirby's forward smash is a reference to Kirby's fighter ability, specifically his heavy button press dash attack. Something I'd add for Lucario is have him mega evolve after reaching max aura, that way there's a visible sign of when it caps out for both players. Like Terry's go meter, Sephiroth's wing, and Joker's Arsen.

[@king_of_scotland]

Personally, i feel that persona is a series that is much more focused on the inner most workings of characters, which is what the personas represent. Demons are a much bigger part of smt than they are persona where its more or less just there for gameplay variety and to set apart the protag. I feel that if we were to get a scharacter that utilizes a variety of demons, an smt protag would work much better cause the demons are the core of the game and also story. Just my 2 cents, keep joker the way he is but pote tially add an smt rep to show off the demon side

[@revengeoftheshreks1860]

Honestly Samus feels extremely well represented to me. So much so that when I played Dread I kept getting confused and trying to air dodge lol. I think they should change charge shot in some way to be less centralizing but other than that I really like how she’s designed. And since there’s also dark Samus it could be interesting to change up one and keep the other

[@brayanholguin5551]

Totally agree. She just needs few changes from Dread, she would benefit from a faster fall speed. I think most people that find her annoying to play don't try to learn the matchup.

[@lasercraft32]

It might be a little too much to ask for... But I really wish each of the Miis had three alternate playstyles. The standard style (the current design), the heavyweight style, and a lightweight style. They had a size feature in Smash 4, but all it did was effect your weight and I think movement speed without altering any of the actual hitboxes (leading to them being very off-balance).

[@ridgenyan-botxv367]

For a long while, I've been really wanting freely customizable moves for the Miis, but your idea sounds like it would work so much better. Not only would there be the potential for more distinct movesets, you wouldn't have to restrict the Miis so much to their current silhouette, but you wouldn't need to somehow have different attacks from the same body with differing functions that are still somehow balanced between each other when mixed in a blender.

[@meta4knight]

I’d like them to keep jiggly puffs core ideas but change some moves that all her to pressure swords so that she doesn’t have to camp as much, giving her a tool to land would also mitigate her air camping because you still want to get back down. Having an attack that helps would speed things up

[@FedoraKirb]

1:22:57 I see what you did there.

[@Tiquono]

Having played XDCE at least, I can say his moveset is fairly faithful to his actual attacks. The Monado Arts themselves are more of an adaptation than a recreation but I actually prefer that approach since it makes him more fun and creative. I mostly wouldn't change him, just make Backslash more useful.

[@Jayquinator-X]

26:08 WOO KIRBY’S EPIC YARN

[@SaddieMoon]

Steve is so TOO POWERFUL, that even his TOO POWERFUL is TOO POWERFUL.

[@Mr.Starlight_gaming]

I always thought of the idea of having pichu and pikachu fuse, add richu and have the character evolve over the coure of the match. It represents a huge part of pokemon and lets pichu stay in smash 6 which aint exactly likely otherwise.

[@MockRockTalk]

I've heard evolution mechanics proposed for Pokemon and I'm kind of torn on it. It sounds forced, but could also potentially be really cool. Honestly seems more like a Digimon idea than anything lol

[@DragonMaster1818]

So basically you’re playing Pokémon unite in smash

[@Eroil]

Feels like more of a main channel video with how well edited it is. I was about to just put it in the background and do other things but now i feel like i need to watch it lol

[@dabiskitt]

I honestly think Jigglypuff perfect as is, she’s an anti-meta character who adds so much flavor to the game because of her strange playstyle. I think modernizing her would take away her flavor, and there’s nobody else who plays like her in the slightest

[@papersonic9941]

She just needs Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam as her Final Smash and she's golden

[@kaojb]

While I agree that Smash's take on Steve doesn't do the best job at conveying the wildly creative and imaginative building that Minecraft encourages, I also don't think it's fair to expect Smash to translate building in this way. Rather, I actually think that Smash does an excellent job at encouraging Steve players to use blocks in a very similar fashion to how Minecraft players in competitive environments would use blocks (mainly PvP combat and Speed running). Building a house is probably the last thing that a Minecraft PvP Pro or Speedrunner has on their mind, and instead player's tend to place blocks quite sporadically as a way to enhance a their own ability to traverse terrain, create on-the-fly defences, create traps or to simply disrupt opposing players or mobs, all of which are things that blocks in Smash can accomplish as well. The plethora of way's Steve's kit interacts with blocks still encourages creativity in some way or another regardless.

[@FierceGalactaKnight]

For Ganondorf, I have a bit of a hot take. Since Sakurai *refuses* to add more Zelda characters other than various versions of existing Zelda Characters, then he should just have two versions of Ganondorf: TotK and OG Beast Ganon, inspired by Echoes of Wisdom Ganon Have TotK Ganondorf use the new moveset, with his multiple weapons, two forms, and Gloom for his kit, as well as attacks from his human forms throughout the series. Then have Beast Ganon combine the iconic Smash Ultimate Ganondorf moves (F smash, Up smash, Flame Choke, Dair) with his Trident of Power, the electricity ball, and maybe even the flame bats. That way human Ganondorf gets updated with a new moveset while current Smash fans get to keep the iconic moveset of Ultimate Ganondorf with Beast Ganon

[@ReikuYin]

Personally? I would rather one of those to be Windwaker Gannondorf.

[@bubby-fi9mc]

8:40 Might be unpopular, but Kirby's moves are actually mostly all referenced pretty well. Most of them are nods to Fighter, Ninja, and Suplex (especially in the aerials and throws), as well as Tornado for dair if you wanted to stretch it. HOWEVER. Smash attacks are a must change, and for the love of God, give him the slide kick already. It's literally older than many of his other copy abilities.

[@TopadHC]

I think Donkey Kong should get changed. Why don't they call Giant Punch Banana Slamma?

[@geekgo4]

That's not game accurate.

[@dysr]

@@geekgo4 Neither are the pokemon’s cries. The only one that made it into the core series games is Pikachu, and it didn’t last. The actual reason is probably that the TV show was a western production that wasn’t very popular or well known.

[@Hairy_Butter]

I think Lucas takes a lot of unintentional advantages. Z-air combos uses some unique features of his double jump and the way physics works in smash. Up smash cancel lets him gain momentary invincibility, although it is very precise. I do love the idea of having Lucas going back and having the footstool combos. I think Lucas is a good character, he is just buried underneath other characters with cooler, or easier mechanics.

[@PriceMw123]

Peach's potential new moveset actually excites me. Which I cannot say that for any of her other incarnations. As a longtime Sonic fan, I 100% agree. He barely feels like Sonic. With Sonic Battle on the Game Boy as a reference, he could a great character and I'd genuinely love to play him.

[@ReikuYin]

I'm SHOCKED they didn't pull more from sonic battle.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

I will admit though, its weird to me when ppl complain about the turning into a ball so much. Its... Sonic the Hedgehog. Main method of attack in pretty much every game. Even in Sonic battle, his specials all revolve around turning into a ball lol. Its like complaining about Link swinging a sword around. Now dont get me wrong, guy definitely needs changes, 2 spin dashes 3 smashes in a row is mind boggling of a choice, definitely should be the boost or something from frontiers thatd make sense for those inputs and id definitely replace a couple of his aerials and normals with Sonic battle stuff. But otherwise, its just being mad his moveset references Sonic the fighters instead, which i think it should take from both personally.

[@RealBroccoliHour]

It’s not that he barely feels like Sonic, he just has an overly simplistic moveset.

[@Coplanersirtax9]

Kirby has so many movesets in his games that they could straight up rip right from them and they would work great in smash. He could still be simple and such but just updating his moveset with a bigger variety of his copy abilities would make him feel so much more fun and fresh to play. Same thing with mario since he has cappy, galaxy spin, powerups etc.

[@Neoxon619]

In terms of Min Min, perhaps the solution is to go the opposite route of adapting fighting game characters to Smash: Rather than bring the fighting game to Smash 1:1, make a regular Smash character with some inspirations from the source material. Twintelle could be a great way to do this since she has her normal limbs & is canonically a body-builder.

[@MockRockTalk]

I do honestly think Twintelle would've been a better pick but Min Min was a personal request from ARMS' director, what can you do 🤷

[@CaravanNoobs]

I think having the ARMS fighter be a character to not use their arms to be a stupid idea. I love Twintelle but she’s a bad representative of that game.

[@noathern]

​@MockRockTalk from what i can tell most of the arms fan base was hoping for twintelle as well I'd have liked ribbon girl personally the extra jumps and the dive bomb would've been great

[@cuttsthecat6331]

Also in ARMS, the whole mechanic of Twintelle is that she can hover and slow her opponents. So she'd be Min Min, but with Peach float and Witch Time and with even more annoying normals since Twintelle's default ARMS are more gimmicky than Min Min's

[@Neoxon619]

@@noathern Min Min is the overall most popular ARMS character globally. Twintelle is in 2nd place primarily because Japan doesn’t really like her that much (Ninjara is #2 over there), but NA & EU mostly made up the difference. Min Min just had more consistent love everywhere.

[@minixlemonade2335]

"ROB: Minor changes" My brother in Christ, he is a zoner that has better boxing tools than most brawlers. He is the definition of a toxically designed zoner. Zoners should NOT be better up close, that is the antithesis of the entire archetype. Even without the 0 death stuff he is absolute cancer to fight up close. Also down tilt is -2.

[@tannerarmstrong1496]

Melee style wave dashing should be added to fox only in the next smash game, just as an homage to the game that made smash what it is today.