VM Diesel 2.4 / 2.5L Cylinder Heads Compare / Problems / Strip Down Jeep/Range Rover Classic

In this video we look at the cylinder heads from our 2.5L Diesel Range Rover classic with the VM engine fitted. We look if we can fit the later improved cylinder heads from the later 2.5L engine that seem to be improved.

[@andsawicki]

Remember to also check/change the freeze plugs once you have the head on the bench, they rot and leak coolant

[@justinsmith6296]

There is a certain landrover based German youtuber called Christian who is having kittens at this very moment whilst watching you remove valve springs using a bench vice 😆

[@L663]

I am sure - love those guys - they sent me a xmas card ! but i may be off the christmas card list now !

[@HQBProductions]

He’s not alone…I’ve seen springs fire across a room and leave a meaningful dent in the wall! Simon…PLEASE get a spring compressor when you reassemble them…don’t take the risk!,🙏🙏🙏😱😱😱🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣Richard

[@rafflesnh]

@4:47 They were called 'collets' when I stripped down my Mum's Riley Elf Mk1 (aka Mini 848cc) cylinder head in the late 60s! 😉

[@L663]

Yes done a few mini heads in my time !

[@jimmyquinn9639]

Lovely job 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@L663]

Thank you 👍

[@paulthewallll]

VM diesel specialist in chesterfield... I used to rebuild these engines there many years ago.

[@L663]

I did write to a VM specialist about if the heads could be swapped but they never replied - maybe they wanted to keep the info secret ?

[@LogitechXibanga]

I dont know much about mechanics but is clear that this guy is not seeing this engine issue with good eyes 👌

[@L663]

Clearly you know more about optometry than mechanics !

[@LogitechXibanga]

@@L663 well, im not going to argue with you, im pretty sure that we wont see eye to eye. 😝

[@hedydd2]

I ran a VM 2.4 in a classic RR from new up to 100,000 trouble free miles. They are noisy beasts with hardly any torque bellow 2500 revs. Let it lug down to 2500 and if forced below it would die a very sudden death. Within a few months of me selling it, the new owner ran it short of coolant and ruined the engine. Once overheated the alloy heads were scrap. The other feature of this 112hp engine is the crankshaft that is removed lengthways similar to the camshaft from the end of the engine. Not that I ever had cause to touch the engine apart from regular 5000 mile oil and filter changes using the obligatory long drain oil. This was one of the first engines that demanded the use of Super High Performance Diesel [SHPD] type lubricants. ACEA D4 if I remember correctly. Today probably ACEA E3 15W/40. The 2.4 and the 2.5 used in Range Rover are indirect injection, hence the pre-combustion chamber seen in your hand at the end of the video. Fuel consumption for mine was around 26mpg. This compares with my current similar weight Kia Sorento 8 speed automatic with 200hp and 4wd giving me 42mpg on the same roads. Of course the Kia diesel has Adblue which it consumes at the rate of 1.5mls per mile or 15litres per 10,000 miles.

[@L663]

Hi Huw - thanks for the comments - I did not know that was a pre combustion chamber - i am pretty new to diesels but having fun learning. I think I am going to keep going with fixing the VM for the RRC !

[@cameronwood1994]

CCMC D4. Today, ACEA E7 is the only SHPD category. People forget that both the 19J and 200Tdi also require SHPD oil.

[@hedydd2]

@@cameronwood1994 You can still buy backward compatible E5 and even E4 in the market that does not meet E7 emissionised spec. E5 and E7 are the second tier above the original CCMC D4. For those that aren’t aware, CCMC changed to European ACEA. All these standards are or were based on Mercedes specifications referred to as sheet numbers. As with ACEA they have separate standards for petrol and heavy duty diesel but some cross over to be multi-fleet that cover both. SHPD oils now are pretty much the defect standard.

[@cameronwood1994]

@@hedydd2 ACEA E7 is not the low-emission DPF-compatible stuff. ACEA E5 was directly superseded by ACEA E7, and ACEA E4 is still available, although classified as a UHPD oil (Ultra-High Performance Diesel). The ones to watch out for are the new E8 and E11 categories (as well as any ACEA Cx oil) as these are the low-SAPS stuff for DPF's etc.

[@iangillett2488]

Interesting viewing. I think Land Rover called this project Beaver, which was 2.4L VM diesel. The engine was derived from a marine engine, which probably explains the individual cylinder heads.

[@L663]

The individual heads certainly help with lifting then out !

[@bugjuicer]

Main downside about using the vice, is it might score/damage the face. I've rebuilt a few (hobby, not a mech) and it's always a sketchy thing! I used a spark plug socket and mallet to shock them out!

[@L663]

I did invent a spring compressor based on a mastic gun - should get them produced really ! it works easily with one hand but it was at home !

[@greerbox]

Hi Simon, the reason you had to compress the 2nd part of the collet a bit more is because the vice was not giving equal compression. A very dangerous way of removing valves. Valve spring compressors are so cheap it just isn’t worth the risk.

[@L663]

I have ordered one for work- my other one is at home

[@greerbox]

@@L663 good man 👍👍👍

[@roversteve53]

The 2.5 that I had in my RRC had the clamp type injectors like your 2.4, I might be wrong but the RRC never had the screw in injectors and I think the injection pump would be different as is the 2.4 and 2.5 pumps I can see a rabbit hole coming up Simon, when you replace the Centre stud for the rockers make sure it's tight as they are know to come loose and strip the thread in the head, later heads had two studs to stop the rocking motion, if in any doubt that it' not tight then put an insert into the head, also fit an MLS one piece head gasket when putting it back together, still not sure about changing mine to a 300 tdi now it don't seem as good as the 2.5 VM ( but a lot less money to rebuild )

[@L663]

I think you are correct - the rover 800 and jeep seem to have the screw in type injector - i am going to try it - the injectors are both marked at 150 PSI so i think the pump will not notice any difference ! I just got a 2.5 for £50 on ebay that i am going to collect - 3 engines to make 1 good one !

[@roversteve53]

@@L663 And there's always my 2.5 sitting in my barn in Brittany !

[@andsawicki]

@@L663 have you put it together already? My head cracked VM RRC is awaiting the answer 😊 I’d replace the heads with some new robust ones with the other injector type

[@ranakhalid1916]

Good jon plesae show vm 4cylinder diesal engine timing mark

[@pradolover]

Bit that fell out is called a precombusition chamber.

[@L663]

Yes just reading about that - and the difference between Direct and Indirect injection

[@pradolover]

@@L663 Yes I had no idea too until my friend bought a 2005 Prado 120 with the Toyota 1KZ engine and researched a bunch of maintenance things for him. I've always had petrol cars.

[@dougm2617]

What’s the part number for the injectors? And where can I buy them?

[@ecossearthur]

Boom Boom!!

[@L663]

Evening ! Lovely evening here in Greece tonight - back tomorrow !

[@ecossearthur]

@@L663 Safe homeward travels! Have a quick swift drink for us!

[@danhayes3546]

Trust me the crack is fine many of the cylinder heads would crack there and not just on those engines we used to pressure test them submerged in warm water and they never leaked or bubble

[@L663]

Good to hear that - still feels wrong putting back together with a crack

[@mvirdi2333]

❤️❤️🙏🙏

[@L663]

Hi Mr Virdi !

[@bobuilt10]

Is that a crack in the valve seat at 8:32?

[@L663]

I think you are correct - that is one of the heads of my original engine. 10 extra point for you !

[@453421abcdefg12345]

Why not use a valve spring compressor ? I know the head is scrap, but holding it in a vice is not good as you are only compressing one side of the top collar, having removed the collets the spring is free to fly across the workshop out of control, a spring compressor is easy to make from a large "G" clamp. Chris B.

[@L663]

Yes i should have really

[@damirivancic4964]

is this good engines?i have head gasket problem broken leaking compresion

[@L663]

The engine when driving is really good but the early cylinder heads did have issues - also better to use the 1 piece multi layer steel gaskets - rather than the 4 individual gaskets.

[@ReodorF1]

I dont think the heads you changed to is better they have those on the jeep xj and chrysler voyager from the 90s 2000s and they are known to crack in the same place, but new ones is better anyway interesting video to watch

[@Stubear22374]

Cant help but feel that’s when Land Rover made good engines not like what they produce these days

[@L663]

There are some issues with the new engines for sure - I need to publish the pictures of my friends V8 SVR engine - the guy who bought the car sent us pics of the mess of the inside ! And yes the VM diesel did more miles before blowing up than my friends SVR !

[@hedydd2]

You’ve got to be kidding! The VM was a good quality engine but prone to overheating in the Range Rover when towing hard. Its performance was abysmal and totally unsuited for the RR in that it needed constant high revs to drive. Its maximum torque was at high revs and dropped off a cliff if run below those revs. For that reason, when loaded, whether on a steep hill start or a more modest one towing, to change from first to second gear required revving the engine to its 4200 rpm governor, or revs would drop in second to below 2200 and you would stall. Also first gear was very high ratio and often required low range starts when towing a heavy trailer. Luckily the range box was easily changed up by double-declutching. As for the V8, this was when fuel injected versions appeared and the ignition system did not like damp conditions to put it mildly. As for the 2.5 used in the 90/110, the naturally aspirated was only 67hp while the turbo version was dreadfully underdeveloped and disgustingly unreliable. Both were smokey inefficient indirect injection engines prone also to timing belt issues. It was 1990 before they totally transformed their diesel engine when they introduced the 2.5 TDi direct injection. This was a totally different beast that was as good and better than any of the competition. The difference in all aspects of engine performance was outstanding and further later developed into the even better TDi300. The 2.4 VM has totally unacceptable running characteristics for the RR. Apart from the noise, it was and is more suitable for a sports car if you ignore its modest 112hp. For the time [1986 introduction in RR] 112hp from 2.4 litres ranked as a high power density rather stressed engine, believe it or not. I liked driving the 2.4 in my RR. It was a ‘challenge’. Luckily mine had the revised main and transfer gearboxes that were a peach compared to my previous 1986 V8 examples.

[@Stubear22374]

@@hedydd2 You are entitled to your opinion as am I, I was referring to engines overall not just that one I reckon later engines were very good I had many 2.25 petrols 200 and 300 tdi diesels some of the best engines and robust units ever made yes they had some issues but could be repaired in the field very easily, sadly the V6 was abysmal with the crank failure never had a VM but the fact that it appears it could still drive on those heads show it had some robustness to the engine. Quite frankly I think as I said they were better back then better than the ingenium and other rubbish they produce today. Again that’s my view sorry it’s not shared by you but then I truly don’t give a FF

[@hedydd2]

@@Stubear22374 You said this and I quote you directly "Cant help but feel that’s when Land Rover made good engines not like what they produce these days”. That is very clear and a load of guff probably viewed through rose coloured spectacles. The TDi200 was the first good and reliable diesel engine they ever built. Their engines have got better since but the Ford V6 diesel has serious crankshaft issues. I believe it is now manufactured in Mexico and although discontinued after a short spell for sale in the USA, it is coming back to us soon in the new Ranger. Hopefully they have improved the durability of the crank but I wouldn’t bet on it. I’d take the Ingenium straight6 any day of the week rather than the older V6. A far superior engine.

[@Stubear22374]

@@hedydd2 you need to get out more 😂 you literally replied to exert your view upon a simple comment I don’t care what you think about my comment it literally matters not to me Trot off an impart you’re view on someone else

[@user-ms1vy1hc4w]

Доброго здоров'я привіт з Одеси Україна.