Testing 4 Common Engine Building Myths: Which Ones Are True? - Engine Power S8, E6

[@unicornsteaks6769]

Engine building myth #5: The budget rebuild...with aluminum heads, roller cam, lifters, roller rockers, headers, distributor and carb we had lying around the shop, not to mention the $20K worth of machines we have at our fingertips.

[@stevesalkas9128]

Budget means under 5k

[@stevesalkas9128]

Budget mean old heads from 60s 70s not 5k heads from 2000s

[@HioSSilver1999]

​@@stevesalkas9128 i agree to a certain extent on that....except it's probably less expensive to buy the new heads than refurbish the old ones.

[@zztop7306]

Poors "why are decent parts and equipment expensive" Just keep running those clapped out 350s and keep it moving.

[@thatguyoverthere9634]

​@@zztop7306shoot man, you mention 350s. I'm building 351 clevelands for my stuff and the price for just a pair of decent heads would just about cover a whole sbc overhaul including machine work and a decent stroker kit. I'm only a poor because I'm not rebuilding a clapped out 350.

[@BatJordo]

I’ve been watching “PowerBlock” since it first aired on TNN. These guys have done such awesome work over the years, hope they can keep going for another 22 years.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Haha yup, I'd chill on the weekend mornings watching all the wrenching shows back then before going to play in the garage. I guess it was like a grown-up version of sitting around the tube watching Warner Bros as a kid😁

[@karlsmith2570]

I've been watching these shows for about the same length of time as well

[@scottyV1000]

I started watching these shows when Joe Elmore and another guy I can't remember were on - he sort of looked Hawaiian. Before that I watched Shade Tree Mechanic on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I'm glade they are on KZbin because since they aren't on Spike / Paramount anymore they are hard to find on TV.

[@karlsmith2570]

@@scottyV1000 the other guy who cohosted with Joe Elmore was Chuck Hansen

[@scottyV1000]

@@karlsmith2570 yup, that’s him. He was the “Chevy” guy and liked station wagon grocery getters.

[@Orygunner67]

I love how Pat gets this seriousl yet maniacal look on his face when he's pushing that throttle lever forward on the dyno! 🤠

[@davidleaverton1144]

I noticed that on this video also.

[@kkoch666]

Acting..

[@myturkishlife1777]

You get more pens in your top pocket as you get promoted :-) Great Video Guys .....

[@zero-by6ib]

😅😂🤣

[@davelowets]

Maybe it's a compromise for other areas??.... 🤷🏻

[@chipgilley6203]

This is one of the most useful and interesting videos I’ve ever seen! Settles so many things. Had NO IDEA air cleaners could make 80hp diff at max pull!!! Do more controlled testing of performance products!!! I LOVE IT!!!!

[@gregg7761]

How could you possibly have “no idea”? You honestly thought that a ridiculously small air filter wouldn’t kill horsepower?? Get ready to have your mind blown again… An undersized fuel filter also hurts horsepower!

[@andreyangere3076]

@@gregg7761 well I don't think anyone expected it to have a 80hp impact

[@tryhardfinessedyou]

@@gregg7761 No need to be a sarcastic ass clown Gregg. Not everyone is a master mechanic like you.

[@pranays]

​@@gregg7761then why are you even here? You know it all clown.

[@pranays]

Just remember an engine is just an Air pump and anything that improves it's ability to move more air gives it more horsepower and torque.

[@Nick-cz7co]

Thanks for doing these comparisons! I would have liked to see a air fuel ratio with the different air cleaners.

[@scoutdogfsr]

I like these guys the best out of all of the "big" shows. They never tell me I can build a 700 hp motor with parts I have laying around. No BS with some solid tech thrown in to every episode.

[@starcloakstarside9719]

Sarcastic. Stock motors and parts can make just as much power and torque as white motors. - Joe Biden, probably.

[@scoutdogfsr]

@@starcloakstarside9719 you know it brother! My Magpul, comp cams, and let's go Brandon stickers are worth at least 5hp each too!

[@postwar46]

Thanks for the undisputable evidence regarding valve lash. I've been in a quandary about this for some time : it's all clear now........ many thanks.

[@zaccivy2061]

I learn so much from these shows. Now I'm convinced that I need to upgrade my 1.5" long tubes on my 408w.

[@robertwest3093]

Those 2 inch primary headers surprised the heck out of me! So much for the theory I was taught!

[@malamri424]

thanks for testing the air cleaners! great content as always

[@farqend]

Great video, guys. Back in the eighties I tried disconnecting my alternator at the strip and running just on the battery. To my surprise I had better times with the alternator connected. More stable and slightly higher voltage. Keep up the good work.

[@muimasmacho]

Positive rotational mass, with the kinetic energy working to help the engine recover after gear changes. Not all rotation mass is your enemy.

[@jediknight129]

it depends on the build you have and precisely what accessories you have on there. it gets real complex real quick.

[@bradkeeney5236]

Thank you for the summary at the end. It would’ve been nice to see it comparing runs with each test also.

[@mickysmith8851]

They should do the old flipping the top of the stock air cleaner upside down

[@hodr1000]

I agree. I ran my 78 Camaro like that.

[@hualni]

I'm honestly surprised they didn't. Engine Masters did.

[@genwatie2191]

@@hualni you must be watching engine masters on something other then KZbin.

[@hualni]

@@genwatie2191 It was on KZbin back a while. But now I watch it on the Motortrend app. It cost me less than $1/ month.

[@genwatie2191]

@@hualni this one is free so...

[@sean7857]

I didn't read through all of the comments but the air cleaner test is interesting. Would like to see results of power changes from pulling outside air vs under hood air - 100 degrees vs 70 degrees outside vs under hood.

[@pranays]

I think engine masters does that test.

[@GregSr]

I'm one of those guys that likes to see data backing up the theory. Well done! Thank-you. Subscribed.

[@crw3673]

This was very informative! Kind of like myths buster. But like you point out, these changes become relevant the larger the engine.

[@okjd159]

My dad's master thesis was all about air flow in an engine in 1952. Which agrees with your tests.

[@linuxman0]

What I'd love to have seen for the air filter test would be a manifold vacuum graph. That tells how much restriction is really happening.

[@ts302]

Also, if any change with the A/F ratio.

[@pranays]

I think they did an air filter test on an old episode with mike and pat

[@donziperk]

I took an air cleaner lid and put a fitting in it and ran a vacuum line to a gauge in the car. Tried a bunch of different filter elements including foam and oil, dry paper and KN. Amazingly there really wasn’t of a difference.

[@Orygunner67]

I always added a vacuum gauge hooked to the intake manifold under my dash in my hot rods. Used one under the hood for tuning too! They can tell you a lot about how your engine is running

[@johnclary729]

This tracks with the Engine Masters episode from a couple of years ago on the same subject, almost exactly.

[@docsmallblock6584]

Yup, run a salad bowl everyone!

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

@@docsmallblock6584 KEGALODON

[@jeffjankiewicz5100]

Engine Masters did it better....lol

[@stevohmelike]

Everyone I ever told that the lash opens up when warmer, thought I was dropped on my head. Which was besides the point.

[@dukecraig2402]

Not true with every type of engine, I've seen some that tighten up when it's brought up to temp and some that loosen, pushrod material comes into play there.

[@K4TORG412]

@@dukecraig2402 exactly, and the pushrod becomes nearly the same temp as the block so it depends on the material. but the exhaust valve gets really hot so it expands extremly more then the rest and normaly gets tighter

[@dukecraig2402]

@@K4TORG412 Yep, I've seen some tighten up and some get looser in the same engine all depending on the pushrod material.

[@yarpos]

@@dukecraig2402 ahh pushrods, how quaint :-)

[@charlesvan13]

It depends on which expands more, the block and head, or the pushrod.

[@jimkillen1065]

I use to change the lash on my solid roller on my small block chev to see how it responded . I was surprised of the results. That was a long time ago but I not forget... as far as lifters I run limiters in my hydraulic lifters in my Harleys. I prefer limited travel lifters in them

[@jsflagstad]

I'd like to see all of these myths compared on this high HP engine and a lower HP engine expressed in "Percent Gain" terms.

[@greggoett]

Now do a 14" flow thru top.. in hot engine bay.. vs a Spectre dual 3" inlets to tubes out thru the radiator core support or high beam headlight buckets.

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

easy,cool air works,flow through lids in an enclosed engine compartment do not.open element air cleaners don't work well in an enclosed,hot engine compartment either........good enclosed air cleaner housing,free flow air filter and dual inlets sucking cold air #1.....theres a reason ram air works

[@greggoett]

@Derek Young yeah.. but 13 hp increase on stock heads.. that's great. 65F drop.. that's a good deal

[@greggoett]

If this was more of a build show.. maybe team up with one of the other shows.. team up and build a real cold air / ram air intake. Weld together a sheet metal filter housing, ducts off that, tubing to firewall.. etc.

[@roymcdre9180]

Agreed. That ram air should be nearly same as the open filters sucking in air super heated by cheap ass non coated headers lol

[@lukehanlon9965]

Another awesome episode guys, I'd love to see the effects of those snake oil fule-saver gadgets too. Cheers!

[@descargaelbano]

I always check my valve lash setting while the engine is running. You just have to be quick about putting the feeler gauge in there.

[@factoryminis3437]

Lol

[@freedom1439]

That’s the way I was taught….

[@wsfwsf1497]

My buddy Superman does my adjustments--in fact he can do a couple engines at the same time.

[@billcat1840]

I Kno what you mean...I changed my fan belt and I tell ya it's like some kind of machine in there all them parts moving around in there 😂

[@karlsmith2570]

Overall, this was definitely very helpful for what to consider when building an engine for your next project vehicle

[@zenriderx]

3:18 I was taught the "Go/No Go" method. It is much more reliable. Use the feeler size bigger than the spec, it shouldn't slide in, and the size smaller than spec should fall through. Then if preferred yoy can slide the spec gauge through for a "feel". Different parts will have different textures (new and worn) and will have radically different drag feedback. Use the go/no go method and eliminate that variable and move on to the next project 😁👍

[@cemeteryhill]

"I literally have hunting boots that are older than you." Now that's a flex if I ever heard one.

[@Larcona_]

Why?

[@MrTheHillfolk]

@@Larcona_ he's just a kid , he might be pretty savvy but only time will bring the speed that comes with experience. I've trained a few new guys at my job , and I can do a typical service in an hour , maybe 1:15. After a week of them being on their own ,they come up and say holy crap it's taking me 1:30 or more you're good !! Settle down little fella, the speed will come with time. Don't go for speed , ask yourself if the olady likes when you finish fast 😝

[@ChachoGSX]

I was looking for this.

[@Larcona_]

@@MrTheHillfolk So after one week they're around 15 minutes off your time, not a huge difference. Also age and experience aren't necessarily correlative. Oh and your example is just being accustomed to a specific routine, which isn't all that important when it comes to building custom engines.

[@scottyV1000]

I like the little quizzes Pat gives the kid most weeks. He's doing pretty good too.

[@TheIrishPhantom]

So hot metal expands and you would think that would tighten up the valve clearances but in fact does the opposite. Learn something every day. Pullet the tappet off my bike today and sure enough... You guys know your stuff.

[@ricepony33]

How about some catalytic converter testing, standard vs high flow.

[@crimsonstang]

Power Nation? Cats? HAHA

[@aleklukacs6170]

No cats

[@ryanroberts1104]

People who build motors like that do not use cats. Ever.

[@josephschaefer9163]

I melted the front of a cheap cat a little bit. Too much exhaust heat from running rich

[@snowcrest7863]

High quality CAT has little effect on H.P. numbers. Mufflers and full exhaust pipe have much, much larger effect.

[@PFLEONARDI0906]

Great video, and the summary of the stats was icing on the cake!

[@hagen8745]

I'd love to see if any of this makes a difference on say a stock 5.3 or 5.7. I am guessing the higher HP shows a more dramatic increase HP increase with better flow from headers and air cleaners.

[@eddieb4227]

Vizard the wizard wrote a really good in depth book on the air cleaner issue. It's worth getting a copy. I gave mine to a younger guy at the shop getting into drag racing. One thing that really increased hp was the carb coffin.

[@chrislore2681]

He's a smart......smart guy

[@tomhamilton9140]

Would like to see 1 3/4 header in this test. Nice test for the Ford 408 thank you.

[@mrelectron6220]

Was interesting to watch I've seen other dyno videos showing only a net gain of maybe 4 HP with electric water pump and could not justify the $$ to HP gains for that mod. Every thing else fell into place with what I expected.

[@jlfastride1]

Would've be interesting to see the effects of running and outerwears pre filter on them last 2 tests...

[@DanielThomason1]

FYI for people looking for Mike. He’s joined up with Joe and they are on a channel called Gunpowder and Gasoline. Being i mention that, I’m not taking anything away from Pat and Frankie. They have a great channel here and I enjoy watching their videos! Good job guys!

[@garryhatchett775]

How about testing in real world street rpm ranges like 2500-5500?

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

i agree,sadly this isnt exciting on the dyno

[@stanleykendziorski7964]

My question is why they're pulling it 500rpms past peak horsepower.. just making noise and wear and tear at that point.. and the way it rolls over so fast, I would say its valve train isn't happy

[@samhicks97]

Would have been cool to see tests also with standard/flat/humped/ velocity stack air cleaner base and see if there is a temperature/HP change. No matter still a great video.

[@socalltd]

would like to see the A/F numbers with all these pulls on the headers and air filters.

[@kenswitzer4133]

The filter demonstration is great.

[@toddperry9860]

Does Pat really need the entire staple store of writing instruments in his top pocket?

[@JSCB-365]

Pat used to teach at an engine building school, students there were horrible about not having the correct writing utensils with them.

[@TwoAMBlacktop]

He's got a couple pens and a pencil, maybe a marker in there, everything else are pocket tools

[@CathodeRayNipplez]

@YOYO MA Bwahahahahah!

[@ragman069]

PPP Pocket Protector Pat BOOM

[@rustychevy2087]

That's his mechanic ranking system. He's basically a five star general LOL

[@reverend099]

Lash setting, that depends on the engine series. My Cobrajet FE I tested more than once to make sure it was not a fluke. Iron head Iron block. .0015 smaller cold.

[@timgresdal3617]

The amount of load produced by an alternator on an engine is related more the the current than the voltage. P=V x A Being that V is a regulated value ( ~14.4V). It would have been nice to know the current value during the alternator run on the dyno. But don't get me wrong. I love your show.

[@bobroberts2371]

It is pretty straightforward to estimate alternator losses. Measure current draw of all accessories needed to run the engine, measure voltage and multiply to get Watts. Add 20% in order to account for electrical losses, some small amount for alt fan windage and belt / bearing losses then divide by 745 to get HP ( One hp is 745 Watts ) Now, there are intermittent loads like recharging the battery after cranking but this can go away after the engine has run for a while.

[@mattquarles7029]

Alternator draw on engine power will be different on smaller engines. In my experience a good high performance alternator made for racing usually takes less than 1hp draw in V8 engines. Too much displacement for that little pulley to make a difference even with full accessories.

[@JamieBainbridge]

@@bobroberts2371 or in other words, 51A @ 14.4V takes 1hp to drive

[@iancook7315]

Hey POWERNATION I would love to see a test using forced air ... more over like the scoop, every dyne test I have seen with a scoop is done in static conditions (no moving air). Granted the other test you did in this video the engine is likely under a hood, however when those "T-Bucket" hot rudders put that scoop on, it is usually catching air at speed, forcing air into the engine. A lot of modern hot rodders that have their engine under and enclosed hood are using ducting from a removed headlight, ducted to the engine, forcing air at speed much the same. I would love to see the difference that forced air makes. I am sure the air would need to be gradually increased to simulate different speeds.

[@bmxrider71]

I'd love to see how much HP is lost due to AC units. A LOT of us older guys want our hot rods but like the comfort of an AC

[@jediknight129]

it can get crazy that's one of the scary ones.

[@kevinfloyd808]

Would be good test, but main question is what does the weight and the drag of the pulley cost you. Cause in the 5 % of the time your going hard, full throttle, wrapping the tach to top of power curve..id assume air is off both for power and because the compressor is coming apart if not.

[@gregoryharmon2348]

Interestingly, the OEM filter setup appeared to use a dirty filter element. With the additional variable it kinda voids the accuracy of the test but does demonstrate the effect of a dirty air filter. Good job, guys!

[@johnnymula2305]

Everyones always building for Horsepower. I would love to see a 5.0 Torque build. I’m searching the web and have yet to see any quality content out there. Those of us that have Full Sized Broncos with 5.0’s (and dont want to buy a new bigger cube motor) would love to get low to mid range numbers up. We’re not interested in high RPM.

[@albertgaspar627]

you're halfway there--the Ford ran smaller valves and ports than a Chevy. The 351 W will do better because in theory, its taller deck makes for longer intake runners, and that helps over a 347 stroker. Go check your local boneyard for the last year Explorer to get a 302 pushrod--it has the GT40P heads, best things to ever come on a Windsor. The spark plug angles will require their own headers, a Fox Body Mustang stock equipment won't fit. don't bother with the Mustang EFI intake either--its a nice design, but its size means it soaks up heat with all that surface area. If you REALLY wanna get crazy, know that the Boss 302 ran longer connecting rods--from the 289. But not everyone jumps on the "long connecting rod" bandwagon. pick a header length you can live with (depending upon body lift, etc) and call the cam companies for what they recommend. If accessories robbing power bothers you, the ford contour had a great set of electric fans--you can look online anywhere for the swap of these junkyard (ie, cheaper than aftermarket) parts.

[@ryanroberts1104]

They aren't interested in old outdated non performance vehicles that few people own anymore. Broncos have all but disappeared from the roads. If you can't swap a larger junkyard engine for almost nothing chances are you can't do much else...

[@bradnimbus4836]

Jesus, don't listen to either of these dopes. Start with gears and then work your way down from the top of the carburetor. 4.10's will wake that ol' girl up!

[@ineffable1129]

That about runner length and cam, it's never going to be great with 5.0 Ford because of the 3" stroke. With your limitation a procharger would give you the simplest big results any form of boost really would give you what you are after and then some.

[@johnnymula2305]

@@ryanroberts1104 you do realize that theres tens of thousands of 80’s to late 90’s Ford trucks on the road, right? And the Torque would also work for any truck. Weather 2 or 4 wheel drive. So my question is extremely relevant to whats currently on the road. And trails.

[@merc-ni7hy]

that would be a nice little motor for something like a first gen camaro ...and i like the cleveland style valve covers

[@hunterjones9822]

Pat has those shirt pockets at max capacity

[@bmstylee]

High capacity pockets.

[@artjones2498]

frank is a lucky dude...he has the start.of a good career there....pat is a good teacher.....i always enjoy this part of the show....drive way rescue is cool too....i wonder if they would come to pennsylvania for a rescue

[@adhithyasodhi3203]

Thanks, this sort of stuff is always interesting to see on different engine combos. Need a piece on the effects of Pat's pocket pens / tools combos as well :)

[@davidleslie949]

That was a pretty cool video! I'd love to see more of these myth, Buster style videos. One of the myths that I'm curious about is whether or not turbulent air entering, the throttle body increases the velocity similar to a tornado because I feel that when the air enters a throttle body, he must have a natural flow or should that flow be manipulated by introducing some type of directional mechanism In order to increase velocity. I equate this comparison to a storm sewer drain that is simply allowing water to go down with only the force of gravity, but when manually spun with your foot clockwise located in the northern hemisphere, it will actually create a vortex which allows the water to flow, much quicker and drain properly into the storm sewer. Would air flow not have the same properties if given the opportunity, considering the fact that air is considered a fluid? Love to see an episode, comparing to different variations of airflow into the throttle, body or carburetor, based on known fluid dynamic principles. Then applying the same principles to the airflow, with or without disturbance from the airbox through the air intake tube to the throttle body. I noticed many manufacturers use flexible rubber ribbed tubing in order to allow Ease of installation and fitment variables. When comparing that to an aftermarket cool air intake system that can increase power output by as much as 20 hp. Another question would be cool more important than cool fuel entering the engine cylinder and does an engine take into consideration the fuel temperature like it does the air temperature just before the throttlebody?

[@Henry-fx4yk]

It would be helpful to have a summary chart for all the runs at the end of the video.

[@kriscarter5440]

Kinda like they did around the 20 minute mark?

[@bradkeeney5236]

I totally agree

[@GonzoDonzo]

I wish I had overlayed the belt driven pump vs the electric pump. It looked like the torque stayed up significantly higher in the higher rpm range. Not surprised by the alternator outcome. 1hp can produce around 1kw of power.

[@BillWilliams-p4o]

750 watts equals one hp

[@thomasbrown7728]

I guess I’m just a grumpy old man, but I can’t stand all of the background music when someone is talking. Too much Hollywood

[@illililililillli]

Boomer

[@muimasmacho]

I agree. That narrator sumbitch keeps breaking through in spots. Annoying as a rod-knock. *We're only here for the robo-cheesy adrenyline junkie moosic, right?* Drama queens in shop aprons. 😶

[@frenchenstein]

@@illililililillli ' cough

[@donaldfrazier5244]

We don’t want a show we are trying to obtain information not go to a concert you’re making enough money for these pods so keep it simple for us knuckle draggers ! Too bad you don’t do the actual work to these engines otherwise you’d have some grease under your manicured fingernails! Hollywood Boys

[@jimcooper5392]

@@donaldfrazier5244 I guess I'm a Boomer geezer too. I don't need all that damn drum beating to pound information into my head.

[@gordowg1wg145]

Cool. With the exhaust headers, 40-45 years ago one of the "hot rod" magazines did a test of several '57 fenderwell headers on a warm 327 - around 450hp, which was good for the day - and there was a 50hp difference between the best and worst combination of diameter and length, can't recall torque. With the filters, was a little disappointed the old "hot rodders" budget trick of using a taller filter in the OEM housing actually helped - the idea being it would flow a lot more air into the engine between the base and the top's gap.

[@KYMarty]

Good test but you left out having the fan on when testing the accessories. I would think that would be the biggest drag of the accessories you tested.

[@maddog9659]

Yep and with a shroud drawing air through radiator = death to horsepower

[@stanleykendziorski7964]

Worth 30hp with a fixed, factory style 6 blade fan

[@DrDurango15]

The reason I put a big 9in cone filter on my build a long time ago. Don't even use a filter at the track.

[@brucehirsch5437]

I'd like to see dyno results on cold air intakes.

[@starcloakstarside9719]

Contrary. With the exception of the stock air cleaner, these are all “cold-air intakes.” I recon you’re talking about an autoparts store universal off-the-shelf part designed for a modern MAFS EFI motor, and to that I’d say don’t bother. It will throw off your Mass Air Flow Sensor and mess with your Air:Fuel ratio due to the lower restriction. Elaboration. Might even be enough to lean out your motor and contribute to lower fuel economy and lower power. Even if you’re talking about a carbureted motor, an open element filter is probably going to be cheaper. I think I’ve got a Mr. Gasket open element filter that cost me $14 compared to the $40-$60 that the EFI-style ones will run you. Conclusive. So unless you want to spend that plus $500 for a shop to reprogram your car or $1,500 for the equipment to do it yourself, it’s not going to be worth it. And even if Power Nation did do an episode on those things, it would probably do more harm than good over all.

[@tylhunt]

@@starcloakstarside9719 Unless the car is being run without a hood, those are not cold air intakes.

[@eddieb4227]

One of the issues on bearings not discussed was bearing width. I remember when the super skukum things was using the Toyota width bearings to reduce drag.

[@michaelglenn2106]

I want to see a similarity sized turbo vs supercharger on the the same engine and see which really makes more power

[@TeamGeezer]

The Turbo should win every time. A Supercharger requires a bunch of HP just to drive it. The Turbo with the exception of some exhaust restriction is basically free HP.

[@montana1636]

When testing to compare exhaust components two things that would help explain or narrow down what causes the power and torque gain, or clears restriction, or matches engine flow dynamics for optimal output, a back pressure reading, Sequential pyrometers or thermocouples for EGT reading at separate linear key points, and a flow rate in CFM to pinpoint the systematic effects one way or the other.

[@robertsnyder1330]

Great tutorial, but increasing air flow changes air/fuel ratios...can we get this test with keeping a/f ratio consistent ?(carb jet change to keep ratio at about 13.7-14.2)

[@timothydillon6421]

Changing the air flow also changes the pressure differential in the venturini. More air is faster air and lower pressure and more suck and more fuel.

[@nerd1000ify]

Just stop messing about and use fuel injection.

[@70_Torino_Guy]

Keep the lessons coming. Love that 408w! 🍻

[@davidpryor4742]

The drag/load from the Alternator would increase with a increase in demand from many of today's needs - ex: fuel pump, ECU's, ignition systems, etc.

[@dukecraig2402]

Exactly, in the days of V belts on car engines you could get in a car on a frosty morning and after you start it up turn on the rear window defogger and listen to the belt start squealing, shut it off and it quits. Just charging a battery isn't proof on that test, they needed to load the system like it would be with the headlights, rear defogger and wipers on, then see what happens.

[@timothydillon6421]

@@dukecraig2402 I am now dumber from reading this.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@timothydillon6421 Why exactly is that? What part don't you get?

[@timothydillon6421]

@@dukecraig2402 you can draw hundreds of amps from a battery or even 1000 but the alternator only charges it at 75 to 100. A dead battery will certainly max out the draw on an alternator.

[@dukecraig2402]

@@timothydillon6421 What makes you think the battle is dead?

[@jmackinjersey1]

There are other advantages to using an electric water pump and cooling fan set up. You can have a thermostat controller to keep the fan and even water pump running after the engine has been turned off, in order to help cool the engine and under hood temps. They also not only free up HP, but also lower the amount of fuel used. If you have a 4x4 set up, you can turn the fan/s off when crossing water and it won't break the fan or throw water up over the top of the engine and, depending on the intake set up, it will not flood the engine with water and hydro-lock.

[@chrismorton9736]

Your alternator test was flawed. When testing the alternator you should have loaded the alternator to its maximum rated current and then completely removed the alternator from the engine as was done with the water pump test. The alternator has other parasitic loads other than the eKw load such as windage from the fan/rotor . This comment is about the way the test was conducted only!!

[@mpugne]

still pretty easy to figure out a solid approx number. lets say the alt outputs 100A at 14.4 so 1440 watts/745=1.93hp. just an approx peak number but close enough.

[@chrismorton9736]

@@mpugne its not about the result its about the test condition

[@mpugne]

@@chrismorton9736 which max current rating should they have used? idle, 2000rpm (what most stock replacements use for rating), or red line which will be the highest. in the end you are still going to be within the error factor of the dyno its self.

[@eddieb4227]

Exactly what I thought. No parasitic load. Cummins on all of their electronic engine control the charging system. It has to see oil pressure before it will energize the field circuit. I have seen mechanical diesel engine stall out when starting in cold temperatures. They go to full field until the regulator can pull back. On a 300 Amp alternator that's a lot of umph! At one time a 65 Amp alternator was huge. Then the Asian market came out with 120 amp.

[@tylhunt]

@@mpugne Standard alternator is only about 55-60% efficient.

[@STREETFIGHTER50]

Nice tests! Good to see the air filter I like making good HP!

[@TheVoice010]

I wonder how Engine Masters feels about this Episode🤔

[@yarpos]

are they still around?

[@carbonfiber492]

The fact they seemed to ether not know or pretend to not know how pre throttle vacuum effects power I’d say engine masters aren’t to worried

[@justinvowels2284]

I knew if I scrolled thru the comments I would find a comment about ripping off engine masters lol.

[@TheVoice010]

@Satchel McQueen Video yeah...its all about the Money now..used to be free

[@TheVoice010]

@@carbonfiber492 lol

[@edwardwerick2420]

The air filter segment was great! I had a similar experience while using a chassis dyno. This was some time ago but I remember it like it was yesterday. I had a 1986 Chevette S with a 1987 4.3 V6 installed. Trans was a 200R4 AOD. The only changes I made to the engine was to replace the TBI with an Edelbrock aluminum intake and 4bbl carburetor. I was also using cast iron exhaust manifolds from a 229 V6. I had to make a few small changes to the Chevette engine bay and it was a tight fit especially on the inner fenders. I mounted a Cal Custom 8" x 1 1/2"air filter on the engine to gain some hood clearance as well. The car performed OK for a while but developed a high speed miss fire. I did the usual tune up steps but nothing seemed to help. I booked time on a local speed shop chassis dyno and did 3 pulls. Each showed the same results of around 160 hp @ 6000 rpm and the engine ran flawlessly. An important clue was that the air cleaner was removed and the hood was open during the runs. The car came off the dyno, the filter was put back on, I paid for my service and left. The first time I tried full throttle the engine stumbled badly. To make a long story short, I replaced the Cal Custom filter with an Edelbrock low-restriction triangle filter and the problem was solved! A side note is I attended Test and Tune night at my local drag strip hoping to dial in the jetting of the carburetor. The track tech inspector asked if I was going to enter the competition that night and I agreed. After I dialed the car in I subtracted a tenth from my dial in time as an attempt to avoid breaking out. At the starting line, I put the car in "drive" and left when the last yellow light went out. The story has a happy ending as I won all 5 rounds and a competition eliminator trophy! I must confess that most of the wins were due to my competitors either "red lighting" or breaking out. The thought of being defeated by a lowly Chevette was too much to bear!

[@aired-downdisconnected4125]

I swapped a buick 3.8 V6 in my Chevette. I should have done the 4.3 in terms of fitment.

[@edwardwerick2420]

@@aired-downdisconnected4125 I created clearance problems for myself by insisting that there would be no hood scoop. The 4.3 was quite a bit taller than the stock Chevette OHC 4cyl. I modified the front crossmember to wrap around the 4.3 oil pan sump which allowed me to get the engine as low as possible in the engine bay. I modified the hood hinges and the front stops to raise the hood close to 1/2." When closed, the increased height was not very noticeable. The idea was to create a "sleeper". For a low-buck hot rod it was great fun! It would eat 5.0 Mustangs for lunch!

[@nicolascreech6367]

Yall forgot the fans in the accessory test...

[@BobbyOfEarth]

..then add a power steering pump.

[@albertgaspar627]

The accessory test alone could have been a mini show....use oversized pullies, run an electric fan draw on that battery, a serpentine belt with idler pulley adding drag, et cetera.

[@rickjennings4848]

All this adjusting is fine and good when ur motors sitting on a stand with no fenders or anything else in ur way come try all that while leaning over the fenders of a 69 f100 and trying to adjust and fit everything!

[@darkwolfshadowv1]

Throwing shade on engine masters. Clapped out 305. 😂

[@JSCB-365]

But they didn't try the salad bowl Engine masters found a few ponies hidden in that trick

[@billgates1682]

I guess they thought it was best, for some odd reason, to make fun of them since they essentially (poorly) copied some of EM's past episodes. These dudes will never compete with EM, lol 🤣

[@Tk-ou9ec]

One thing I do know is that with my old Datsun I fell victim to the washable,more breathable air filter. So I bought a 2.5 by 10 inch to go into the factory air cleaner housing. I noticed immediately upon driving it that the initial take off or acceleration was down( a lack of torque). I drove it like this for about a week as I thought, naaaaah can’t be,but it was. I changed it back to its normal paper filter and voila,torque came back,much better take off. I’m guessing that the extra air flow created to much turbulence which in turn affected performance?! Either way. I won’t buy washable again!

[@e-curb]

Or that high-flow was more restrictive.

[@aidanrussell-smith4619]

love this shit

[@mruble38]

same

[@brdnsky6417]

That is why in the old days we would flip the top of the stock breather to open up the air cleaner. Changing the water pump would be the test because your pulling water. If not pulling water off a belt, that would be a simple guess. Yes it kills power because your moving something besides just spinning, like free spin. Thanks Pat. Ronnie.

[@tonkatoytruck]

what about power steering and A/C?

[@bmstylee]

A/C only drags when the compressor is engaged. Otherwise it's an idler pulley. On modern cars power steering is moot given its generally not hydraulic. But I can see it drawing a good chunk to push the fluid on a pump style system. Hydraulic fluid ain't water that's for sure.

[@GTStuning-]

It made 2 more ft lbs of torque with the filtered lid combo (518) versus no filter at all (516) on the test with accessories being ran.

[@PhilthyHorseRacing]

I'd ike to see how much an ac compressor does. I've always heard accessories listed as robbing a % of hp, I'd like to see that tested. It seems more logical that the same accessory drive on different hp engines would rob the same horsepower, regardless of hp level

[@markg7030]

I agree.

[@NBSV1]

If it spins the accessory at the same rpm and the accessory has the same load it will pull the same power.

[@darrellmora1319]

Nice job, guys. Speaking of testing, though, it's been tested and proven that those ultrasonic pest repellers are completely worthless. I've seen video of mice actually standing on the things. They don't even know they're there.

[@lawrencefoster2120]

I mean you wouldn't even put that ugly thing on if it increased hp but wow 80hp loss.

[@johnkendall6962]

It really shows running the stock set up with a dirty filter would be like having the choke sticking part way.

[@betthat313]

You missed the 1 3/4 headers ..

[@limprooster3253]

POWERNATION, please do a series on low end torque. Specifically something like a 302 SBC vs a 305sbc with the same heads, cam, intake, exhaust so that we can prove once and for all that stroke length doesn't equate to torque

[@limprooster3253]

Actually, if you can, do 302 sbc vs 305 sbc vs 383 all with the same top end. You'll show what effect, if any, stroke length has on torque, as if displacement alone has an effect on peak horsepower, or just where it is in the band. Just a suggestion. The "long stroke means more torque" idea comes up alot in the car community, and I personally don't believe it. Id like to see some tests to address that

[@spoogethat]

so pretty much ripping off of engine masters, they covered all of this

[@genwatie2191]

Yep except you don't have to pay to watch the full episodes

[@johnmonroe961]

Well I won’t say they ripped them off. Maybe a different check. I mean I m not go of one resource.

[@genwatie2191]

Oh and engine masters is basically a rip off of engine power. Engine Power has been on a lot longer then engine masters.

[@TwoAMBlacktop]

@@genwatie2191 Not really. Engine Masters is full dyno testing. Really if you want to get into it, Engine Power is a rip off of Hot Rod.

[@spoogethat]

@@genwatie2191 not accurate, engine masters has been around for a long time, it was a magazine as well as a builders challenge long before the motor trend show, as well as saying these guys dont rip off of motor trend is a joke. I mean the show carcuss is a direct rip off of roadkill, then all their little "extras" didnt start until roadkill extra, dirt everyday extra, etc.

[@johnmonroe961]

PULLEY SELECTION WAS KEY. That’s why you didn’t see a big change. You guys had the correct ratio. Back in the day. 86/93 I bought a Moroso alternator pulley. BIG change! This was on a 66 Mustang 289. Stock crank and Alternator pulleys. The only powered stuff besides the engine it self was a Booming System with two twelves.

[@evi1dav3]

8:21 just left of the water pump I thought I saw something fall off. Loose bolt?

[@thelol1759]

I saw that too

[@evi1dav3]

@@thelol1759 at least I'm not the only one.

[@realdeathpony]

washer

[@jompazx1272]

the power draw from an alternator is easy to calculate, for example 100A alternator charging with 14V means 1400W output. and then devide the output by the effiency of 0.6 and you get the 2333W=3HP and then some friction losses etc som maybe 3-5hp dempendening on car and so on.

[@Stone177]

What happen to the other guy?

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Mike?

[@Stone177]

@@Carlos.Rivera that's his name. I thought it was Gilbert.

[@kriscarter5440]

Mike Galley. No clue. But LT (Lawrence Tollman) has also left but has a growing following on his KZbin channel.

[@bmstylee]

Once Tommy leaves it will become completely unwatchable.

[@kevinclancy.]

great video, never knew that about the lash, wow I've been wrong for decades!

[@jeffpelletier5186]

This formula of show is so dated. It’s like watching an accountant and a banker trying to be car guys.

[@mchristr]

Used to work on a lot of older cars, both gas and diesel, that required valve adjustment. I would always cold lash so I wasn't chasing my tail as a hot engine cooled.

[@BeauAmoureux]

Great video. However, “Engine Masters” tested all these myths years ago. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@karlx-1]

But you have to pay to watch EM.

[@johnnikollaj496]

@@karlx-1 Exactly

[@craigdrenga1666]

You're a great team. Love the show. You should have Molene on camera at least once a show. Maybe to say signing off with you.

[@jessemurray1757]

this show is too scripted, which i fear is its Achilles Heel .

[@JohnW1711stock]

Custom race headers can be worth 25 HP, over generic race headers. Great tests.

[@ModernBeastx1]

Just broke a million subs gratsss!!! @POWERNATION

[@hodr1000]

I love the budget builds and testing. I would like to see some guides on how to find information. Question like will the mounting bracket work, what pulley do I need and, how do I find the right bell housing is scary.

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

a lot of this is go out and do,got on HAMB......TRY IT AND MEASURE,so many variables to consider