Practical demonstration of dual rank and single rank memory configuration differences.

I forgot to mention that I did this on intel because on Ryzen the performance would behave all kinds of weird.
Video covering SR vs DR at XMP settings: • Testing XMP settings i...
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#RAM #DDR4 #Overclocking

[@FrankLeeMadeere]

OK... 90% sure on this... hopefully KZbin formatting doesn't kill it.... LinPackScore MT/s Total Cap Setup Effective Ranks Brand 600 Gflops 4666 16GB 2x8 Single Rank Viper 593 Gflops 4533 32GB 2x16 Single Rank Ballistix Max 628 Gflops 4400 32GB 2x16 Dual Rank Vengence 613 Gflops 4266 32GB 4x8 Dual Rank Viper

[@andersjjensen]

Thanks man. And not even edited.. aRe YoU a WiZaRd?!?

[@Dr_b_]

with dual channel systems, run either 2 dual rank dimms, or 4 single rank dimms, with a preference on only 2 dual rank dimms. Would that be a correct statement

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

@@Dr_b_ 2 dual rank dimms on a T-topology board is very painful to OC.

[@Immortal__]

Could someone please let me know which would be better for me? Given all the info now about 2x8, 4x8, 2x16 and how it all relates to gaming, which would you recommend I get out of 2x16gb Crucial (tuned to cl16 3800) or 2x8gb B-die memory (perhaps that crazy teamgroup RGB kit 4000cl18 or Patriot 4400c19 B-die), which are more or less around the same price, and tune the B-die to really tight timings at 3800. Ive seen reviews where 32gb really improves low fps numbers, but wonder if it wouldn't make a difference Vs 16gb of tighter tuned mem. They'll go into a budget b550 motherboard (b550m h) with likely only 2slot dimm (for the lower price but also lower latency) Ryzen 3600/3600xt for now and eventually hopefully a 5800x I play csgo at 768p stretch all low settings (need max performance) and sometimes Battlefield. Many thanks!

[@CaseyHancocki3luefire]

Thanks!

[@LinkStorm13]

Bulidziod: Making memory controllers very upset since 2015

[@simoSLJ89]

Could be a great t-shirt design

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

I think earlier than that even. I killed a memory channel on an athlon 750K

[@LinkStorm13]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I have no Idea, I just checked when you started your channel. But nice to know.

[@wobblysauce]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking... Oh I wasn't the only one.

[@RN1441]

I was not even aware that single rank 16GB sticks existed! This information alone is very valuable, so thank you for the update.

[@mauriceelet6376]

yea. thats a good point. you cant expect normal people to know that this is a thing. if you think you are better off with balistic max 2x16 you will not notice that unless you look under them or search the IC.

[@NicolaiSyvertsen]

They didn't for a long time until SK Hynix and Samsung started making bigger RAM chips. The number of GBits per memory chip is really the limitation here.

[@RN1441]

@@NicolaiSyvertsen Recently I bought a kit of teamgroup 2x16 memory for a ryzen 5k build and just assumed it was what I wanted. Since learning about this I've looked it up and they are in fact dual rank (per an online database of b die memory anyway) but yeah, I wonder how many people are going to lose 5% performance to this without knowing it. It's not the end of the world, but it's not a non factor.

[@TheLazyGarden3r]

I asked Crucial about the 16gb Ballistix (non max) sticks and they said "The memory BL2K16G36C16U4B comes in both dual rank and single rank. We cannot promise which memory you will receive. You can contact us back after purchasing with part number with extension so that we can inform you regarding the rank of the memory." So there is basically no way of knowing until after you receive the bloody stuff. It's a lottery.

[@RN1441]

@@TheLazyGarden3r My plan is to if needed just purchase a second kit of the same lot from the vendor and sacrifice a bit of clock speed and run with 4 modules, but it's kind of silly that we can't be confident what we are buying. Another option is to buy from a company that cares to clearly define their products - if they can't do that why should we trust it?

[@astronemir]

Thanks. This video was a big improvement on previous ones in terms of organization and clarity from the title.

[@Davide-bx3js]

I love your contents 😁 very unique and formative

[@Sunlight91]

You could have entered the results into a spreadsheet and made a chart as a visual presentation in your final conclusion.

[@WinterCharmVT]

Even an excel screenshot would have been fine. :3

[@georgeivanov844]

I knew, that after GamersNexus and Hardware Unboxed made videos, related to this topic, it was only a matter of time before Bill Lloyd also offers his take on this.

[@ukspawn666]

is that from auto captions? "hey guys bill lloyd here" ROFL

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

actually I was supposed to make this video like a month ago but I really didn't feel like it at the time.

[@georgeivanov844]

@@ukspawn666 Yeah. Bill Droid is another one.

[@ukspawn666]

@@georgeivanov844 i just got Bill Zoid .. getting closer!

[@ukspawn666]

@@georgeivanov844 have you seen hardware unboxed. Hammer on Box is great... RIP aussie accent

[@XxxTheCoolKidxxX]

We needed this video. Thanks

[@AndrewCislak]

48:18 - reminder to add link to description! Great info as usual!

[@radicalxedward8047]

Maybe you could finish the DRAM for dummies thing GN started and never finished. So much of this stuff sounds like it’s not _that_ complicated, but like I’m missing a bunch of basics.

[@wewillrockyou1986]

The GN video is quite poor as far as actually explaining the mechanics and the relationships between timings. I would suggest looking up a playlist (should be 7 videos long) called "Random Access Memory" on a channel called "Computer Science", this covers most of the relevant details as far as the basics of how DRAM works. I think this is the easiest way to learn DRAM overclocking without just spending ages trial and erroring and digging up old forum posts (some of which are on forums/websites which have since stopped operating). I've also made a video titled "DRAM Operation for Overclocking" on another channel called "10GHz Netburst" where I take some of those basics and explain how they affect some of the main timings in DDR3/4.

[@philth7587]

@@wewillrockyou1986 thanks for the recommendation! Just what I've been looking for to try to further my understanding of this stuff :)

[@KeinZantezuken]

Based Buildzoid making proper explanation, finally.

[@TrueRegulators]

tl;dw "sticks" and "capacity" at the same speed never directly impact performance, only channels and ranks do.

[@LA-MJ]

Never say never

[@HellSpawnRulerOfHell]

2 dual rank dimms don't OC well on a T-topology board. 4 single rank dimms don't OC well on a daisy chain topology board.

[@shaneeslick]

G'day Buildzoid, Thanks so much for all these 'Visual Explanation' videos, they are great for us who 'Want to learn, but need more of teachers help' 😁

[@Dr_b_]

many thanks for doing this, really

[@alanryn]

@buildzoid For your hdmi plug/unplug issue, route the hdmi cable through a cheap hdmi splitter then to your capture card, good chance it'll save you having to plug/unplug in future. Thanks for all the great videos.

[@sysakPL]

ahhh finally. All my question answered and more! This is exactly what was needed👌 Thank you Buildzoid!👍👍👍

[@davidjohansson1416]

Nah this video is fake. It’s not the real buildzoid, need proof? Look at timer < 60min. Anyone who has kidnapped BZ please give him back, he is not for personal overclocking uses.

[@juzujuzu4555]

I would really love to see video with nice infographics wherever possible of ALL the memory timings, what they do and how they affect performance. It would be pretty insane video to make, but if it's done right, it would be great reference.

[@K31TH3R]

Buildzoid, couple quick questions for you. The MSI B550 Tomahawk in their specifications page states that 4xSR DIMMS are qualified to up to 4000MHz on the board, but 2xDR DIMMs are qualified only to 3866Mhz. Also, I had similar findings with my AM4 ASUS Prime X470-Pro, I couldn't go anywhere over 3600MHz with 2x16GB Hynix CJR, no matter what I did with timings, CLDO VDDP, VDDG, CAD_BUS, ProcODT, SoC, DRAM voltage etc. I was able to run both sticks individually at 4000MHz, but not together. In contrast, a 4x8GB mix of Hynix CJR/DJR runs rock solid stable at 3733MHz with minimal effort (so does 3800Mhz but my FCLK isn't quite stable at 1900). Any guesses why? Finally, do you think it's possible that signal integrity is harder to maintain on daisy chained boards with 2xDR RAM vs. 4xSR RAM? Because I'm trying to figure out why I have these results, and why my findings seem to be inline with MSI's qualified speeds for 4xSR vs 2xDR.

[@robertdunlop5247]

Thanks for mentioning the new z490 unify bios. My system (or memory controller) was overheating (or something) before when I had these Patriot Viper at 4400 XMP, causing my gpu to overheat... NOW it seems solid A.30. (10700k)

[@fernandoolezza]

Bullzoid your thoughts on cinebench r23? Thanks nice content

[@SnowmobileHomeMovies]

The are very few useful yt channels for someone who has been building PCs since the 286/12. BZ is one of the few. Very nice.

[@OdysseyOG]

If I already own the crucial kit you showed could I buy a second kit to make them dual tank running 4 sticks or will I get issues since they weren’t all binned together?

[@CaseyHancocki3luefire]

A quick summary graph, table, in written words, or in spoken words would have been nice. I need a TLD(R/W)

[@redclaw72666]

Doesn't work with buildzoid criteria lol

[@jensgerntholtz4041]

It was demonstrated that the performance of the configurations in LINPACK compared as follows: Channel1(Single Rank 8GB) + Channel2(Single Rank 8GB) ≈ Channel1(Single Rank 16GB) + Channel2(Single Rank 16GB) Channel1(Single Rank + Single Rank) + Channel2(Single Rank + Single Rank) ≈ Channel1(Dual Rank) + Channel2(Dual Rank) So we observed that the number of ranks in a channel affects performance. In conclusion, how many sticks of memory and the capacity of a stick doesn't necessarily give away how many ranks there are in the config, so you can't assume the performance based on those parameters alone.

[@jensgerntholtz4041]

Very much still trying to grasp these concepts, so I'm happy if anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[@CaseyHancocki3luefire]

@@jensgerntholtz4041 Thanks for the attempt. Buildzoid pinned a comment from @Frank Lee Madeere.

[@vladNMP]

hello, mind giving me some advice? i am rolling a x570 asus p, ryzen 5600x and 1x kit of 2 Crucial Ballistix 3600MHz CL16. just got another kit of these! (they are so hard to find apparently). was it a good move? thanks!

[@padman6074]

I loved the video, so mch info. Could it be that because of daisy chain on Z490 Unify your 4x Viper Steels @ 4440 would not boot BUT 2x 16GB @ 4400 Dual Rank did boot (and pass Linpack)?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

yeah the daisy chain is why 4400 on 4x8 isn't working. Though I had it kinda working on a previous BIOS version.

[@meimnd]

@ActuallyHardwareOverclocking Does this mean that there is a performance uplift for going quad rank?

[@mmaster23]

Any tips?? I'm looking to get new RAM for my 3900X..Currently on Corsair 3000mhz CL15 2x16GB but I can't seem to get it stable. Looking for great performance and the option to run 64GB of RAM in the future (or spring for 4x 16GB if that improves performance now or on Zen3). Might go for 5900X soon. Edit: Should add .. X570 Aorus Elite

[@prjndigo]

I can't wait for the 32bit DDR5 standard to come out and people get all sorts of confused about how it's 8 bank memory in 4 slots.

[@chomper720]

HyperX actually gives proper doccumentation when you search the model number. ^w^

[@bt54565]

If I change switch my DIMMS into A1 and B1 will it give me an accurate test of how 4x8GB would perform? I'm running 2x8 at 3800MHz on a daisy-chain and thinking about upgrading to 4x8 but I don't wanna drop below the magic 3800MHz for it. (gigabyte B550 Aorus elite and 5600x)

[@razielgrave224]

Hey, I bought a z490 unify because of your videos.

[@riptiondesc]

good video

[@RoNy164]

More than dual vs single rank, you should have done a video on how to know if a ram is single or dual rank because in most specification sheets in any site we don't have that information. Above all thank you for the videos :D

[@tdrm]

He has already done that video. He explains methods to detect single rank in kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZKxo35-h6aZptk - You can physically inspect the RAM and you can set the dual rank timings to extremely low (like 1) and if it boots then it's single rank.

[@RoNy164]

@@tdrm I ment more for people who doesn't have it physically on their hands, if you have it you can install cpu-z and it will tell you what type of rank you have on the SPD tab.

[@tdrm]

@@RoNy164 If you don't have the RAM then it's tricky. You basically have to trust someone else who has the RAM. The German hardwareluxx forums have really good RAM threads.

[@RoNy164]

@@tdrm I mean it's sad that the manufacturers of ram don't give this info in the specifications... it seems just wrong.

[@finnba_h]

@@RoNy164 I concur! It would be so easy if all manufactures listed the rank on the spec sheets.

[@MrThephonypope]

Is it safe to say that with daisy chain 2x16GB DR will perform better than 4x8 SR on standard OCs, even with Ryzen's suped up IMC these days?

[@OptLab]

I would be glad to hear about RAM and power consumption. Single vs double module, Ram size, ECC/non ECC, Dual Channel, Dual Rank, DDR 4vs5, Clock speed, latency etc!

[@MyPlaylistGaveMeCancer]

Aah a new movie to watch. I'm gonna grab a popcorn

[@kamenriderblade2099]

What's the lowest Latency you can get at 3800 with 4x sticks on B-Die while being stable and not going past 1.35V?

[@skypickle29]

how does the number of ranks affect command rate? is it easier to get 1T with single rank?

[@nubbins70]

BZ are you planning to work with the Viper Steel 4400/19s on the 4750G? I've got a 4650G and the Viper Steel 4133/19s and looking for guidance on how VSOC works on Renoir, since on my 3700X it seriously kills stability above 1.1V. Am trying to hit 4000 1:1. B550I Aorus AX so I don't think the board should be the limiting factor.

[@MadPotoo]

He already did during a stream, the conclusion was he needed to use a better board than the hunk of junk that came with the prebuilt LOL

[@nubbins70]

@@MadPotoo wasn't that one done with the default Samsung C-die? Kinda different story with ICs that negatively scale past 1.35V.

[@MadPotoo]

@@nubbins70 Nah he did a second stream with rev.E and the Patriots trying to beat the fire strike 4750G wr. He will do another one with a good board I think

[@uBm3d]

CT2K16G4DFD8266 would this be cheap 19-19 crucial dual rank 16gb 2666 - also it should b micron could it be overclockable a lot ?(kit is 110 € currently)

[@JMUDoc]

The one I'd like to see is how much (or, indeed, whether) VRM frequency affects overclocking/undervolting stability. The vdroop one was fascinating.

[@randomchars9619]

woud have expected that single vs dualrank thing rather more for (the latest) ryzen platform due to one of GNs recent (slightly confused) vids abot speed advantages(?) for dual rank sticks there :)

[@the-wert]

What I'm interested in is question if you can run quad-rank memory with 4750G - and if so, does it further boost graphic score? Because with my 2200G I've observed about 10% iGPU performance uplift just from using dual-rank over single-rank (at the same timings).

[@wewillrockyou1986]

You get very little interleaving gain from quad over dual rank, also you tend to lose frequency quite a lot.

[@the-wert]

@@wewillrockyou1986 Yeah, but how little? I'm not aware of any tests (everyone just says the same thing as you) with iGPUs - and CPUs at the same RAM frequency can get +7% to performance. So would the hit to frequency with 4750G's IMC be so big that it will negate performance uplift or nobody just wants to go thru pain of setting up such system?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

On Z490 I got quad rank to just over 8000 points in geekbench. With dual and single rank 8500+ is easy.

[@penguinton7691]

Do they sell dual Rank 2 module 16 gig kits?

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

52:09 minutes, i am disapointed not even 1 hr ;)

[@IIARROWS]

7:37 that means he's impressed!

[@Immortal__]

Could someone please let me know which would be better for me? Given all the info now about 2x8, 4x8, 2x16 and how it all relates to gaming, which would you recommend I get out of 2x16gb Crucial (tuned to cl16 3800) or 2x8gb B-die memory (perhaps that crazy teamgroup RGB kit 4000cl18 or Patriot 4400c19 B-die), which are more or less around the same price, and tune the B-die to really tight timings at 3800. Ive seen reviews where 32gb really improves low fps numbers, but wonder if it wouldn't make a difference Vs 16gb of tighter tuned mem. They'll go into a budget b550 motherboard (b550m h) with likely only 2slot dimm (for the lower price but also lower latency) Ryzen 3600/3600xt for now and eventually hopefully a 5800x I play csgo at 768p stretch all low settings (need max performance) and sometimes Battlefield. Many thanks!

[@shivalingathinga2767]

Quick question. Other than crucial is there any other single rank memory that is similar or is it the only one currently?

[@drivingmemad7127]

The Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB kit I got this week is single rank Micron rev B. CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 ver 3.43.

[@aliensaxophone]

Thank you so much for making this Video! How to subscribe more than once for your subcriber stats? :) (really gratefull)

[@nickl6820]

Used to have an old Linux cluster at work that while running fluid simulations would always be using the page file, and no one else questioned why it would take a week to run a simulation. Meanwhile our sister location would do the same simulation in 16 to 24 hours with only a 50% increase in core count on their cluster. That page file hurts.

[@nenadmilosevic661]

Buildzoid, great video, you explained a lot... But, in my case, I have 3400g (zen+ apu), is it worth to upgrade from 2x8 to 4x8 3200c14 on gigabyte b450 which is t topology?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

are you using the iGPU?

[@nenadmilosevic661]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking yes, I do. Igpu locked to 1700mhz at 1.62v soc and memory at 3333mhz 14 11 11 24, 1.46v...

[@nenadmilosevic661]

Sorry, 1.162v soc... 😊

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

@@nenadmilosevic661 yeah 4x8 would make it faster but I'm not sure that it's worth it compared to getting a cheap dGPU.

[@nenadmilosevic661]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I know, i will buy some another time... For now, I'm very interested to try dual rank on iGPU and improve it as much as possible... ( cause i found cheap used b die )... Thanks for all your advices, I hope you will find some nice place to move... 😉

[@sudd3660]

no information on 32gb stick?

[@Healcraft]

I actually bought 2 x patriot viper 3200/cl16 (2x8gb) kits for my b460 board (max 2666 :3 )to get slightly more performance, and they were cheap ($68canadian x2)

[@alexgottmituns7049]

With that same board and cpu: what would be the optimal settings for 4 dimms of 16GB memory modules: (2 sets of ripjaws f4-4000c18D-32GVK) Thank you

[@AdaaDK]

How can we see if a kitt of ram are dual rank, when we buy them(dont have acces to the sticks). ? does 8gb dual rank exist, or are they all 2*16gb dual channel kits ?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

8GB dual rank was a thing when 4Gb ICs were cheaper than 8Gb ICs

[@evilbob2200]

cpuz will tell you what type of rank you have

[@AdaaDK]

@@evilbob2200 he already answered, its to late if i already have the module, + typhoon burner will also tell me that, and that program will tell me the mem die brand as well + binnings and such. I would need ot know the info before buying was the problem. No place where i live will put them into a pc in a store and show me typhoon burner or CPU-Z before a purchase(sadly).

[@2ndLastJedi]

How well does dual rank work in gaming? Is it worth lower frequency in games to get dual rank?

[@RowanHD15]

Ok so if you have Single rank dims you have to get 4 for max performance. One question tho do single rank dims overclock better then dual?

[@MadPotoo]

Generally speaking more rank means more stress for the CPU. Memory trace topology matters too, T-topology likes 4 sticks while daisy chain likes 2 sticks.

[@Denso481]

What I'm confused about is, are 4x8GB single rank sticks a better choice than 2x16GB dual rank? Apparently smaller dimms have better OC and timings, with that logic in mind, 4x8GB should be better, no? Or do 4 dimms put more stress on the memory controller and hence negatively impact timings? 🤔

[@RobBCactive]

I bought 4x8GB for cost and timing reasons, 2x16GB was much more expensive with looser timings. As I run Ryzen, memory oc will be restricted to seeing if it works at 1700/1800/1900 FCLK

[@apalguru]

Maybe try using a HDMI switcher to force the capture card to redetect at the press of a button? It might reduce HDMI compatibility and might not work at all, but it's the kind of crazy idea I'd try.

[@AndrewCislak]

I’m pretty sure Wendell from Level1Techs has a solution for your capture card detection!

[@MrDrago1954]

Why am I laughing! LoL.

[@finnba_h]

Thank you thank you thank you for doing this video! Cleared up almost all of my questions. My last question is how can i tell if a ram kit online is dual rank or single rank?

[@peppa1492]

I think that the manufacturer will either specify, or you can take a look at some motherboards' QVL (yes, sometimes it's written there).

[@winebartender6653]

Best way is to find out what memory ICs the ram is using. Depending on the bit width each IC is or the density each IC is will tell you whether or not it will be single rank or dual rank. For example, Samsung b-die has an 8 bit width, 1gb per IC, thus, for a 16 gb single ram module, it will be dual rank. Each memory IC is 1gb @8 bit width, each word block is 64 bits wide, therefore every 8 ICs is 1 word block, which would make it a rank. Since there are 16 ICs on the single module, it will be dual rank. On the other hand, the micron he showed is also 8 bit width, but is 2gb per IC. This makes it single rank since it only has the 8 ICs. You could also have 4 bit width/1gb per IC, which would also make it single rank but dual sided just like the Samsung example.

[@LA-MJ]

@@winebartender6653 using lowercase b for Bytes is just confusing. Please don't

[@gagarin777]

Would there be any difference in T topology?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

yes the 2x8 and 2x16 setups would clock way worse(4266 on 2x8 and 3600 on 2x16) and the 4x8 would do 4400-4533.

[@pow1983]

Is there a reason manufacturers use the same part number but different rank configurations? Do they not see a problem with mixing ranks

[@MiguelAlves4331]

Can someone simply reply to my question.. I've 5 5600x should I get 8GB x4 or 16GB x2?

[@cracklingice]

Yeah, I'm one of those tri rank weirdos. I got 4x4gb when it was 164 USD and then saw 4x8gb for just 90 USD and jumped on it. X99 so I just slapped 'em all in there. It's a crappy memory controller anyway so I just run 2400mts memory but I have bumped timings to 16 16 16 36 on them all and it's rock stable, but for some strange reason I only get like 49gb/s read but like 60gb/s write.

[@Setlean]

Do a video elaborating on AMD differences please. I guess the issue there is Fclk.

[@mesaber86]

Could we please make a list which sticks are dual rank per 8GB,16GB and their speeds (3200MHz and up) and serialnr. We really need a list to know which sticks to buy and not get fooled into single rank performance for 2 sticks. Are there any sticks atm for 2x8GB that are dual rank and selling?

[@andersjjensen]

As far as I'm concerned there aren't any 8GB sticks that are dual rank unless we are talking seriously old DDR3 stuff.

[@mesaber86]

@@andersjjensen Well i found this list: www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/

[@HawaiiBKC_YT]

the god has spoken.

[@maxoo._]

BZ is only a master... Gods are : Vince "kInpIn" Lucido (Evga champ and product designer), Luumi (Finland), Splave (USA), der8auer (German engineer and Intel IHS bracket removal tool creator), Nick Shih (O/C Formula designer), HiCookie (GigaByte Aorus Master own champ).

[@infango]

is there somewhere actual list of dual rank memory ?

[@andersjjensen]

Nope. Only way is to look at it without the heat sink on. If there are modules on both sides of the PCB it is dual rank.

[@TimBoundy]

@@andersjjensen that's not always true, it's possible for dual sided modules to still be single rank.

[@alb9229]

@@andersjjensen Not always true

[@matejvrabel]

Please do Nanya A-die RAM Overclocking

[@tikitakutakutaku578]

What you mean Ryzen is kinda weird? so its performance is worse DR or SR configuration? or sometimes better DR and sometimes SR?

[@tikitakutakutaku578]

or do you mean overclock easier SR 2sticks vs 4sticks? how about overclock 2x16gb sticks? sorry i have viper 4000mhz 2x8gb kit and like go 32gb but should i go 2 sticks or 4 sticks for ryzen 5000?

[@unawarebot2529]

It's to do with infinity fabric on ryzen obviously, much more straight forward to do this demonstration on intel

[@LA-MJ]

Video is 52min. Success!

[@mostafarady6618]

yo Boss when u think DDR5 memory will be in mass production and start being used in new systems ? maybe with zen 4 ? next year or its couple of years far ?

[@dog_snax2098]

Can someone tell me something about Micron B-die? Bought a corsair 4x8gb kit rated for 3600 18-19-19-39 1.35V. Is Micron B-die any good?

[@andersjjensen]

Those are not too bad, but silicon lottery applies. You should be able to tighten the timings up a bit on that kit.

[@dog_snax2098]

@@andersjjensen Thanks for the info. I found very little information about it online. But I always heard people say that Micron is trash for high speeds.

[@andersjjensen]

@@dog_snax2098 If you're on Ryzen you'll gain more from tight timings than raw speed anyway... Haven't kept up with the actual performance gains of various strategies on Intel for a while.

[@dallatorretdu]

I'm on my second Corsair kit and it randomly crashes my system... jeez their binning really sucks, or my motherboard is mildly broken. I'm now waiting for a sweet crucial kit now... if that also crashes I don't have idea what to do.

[@qiyuxuan9437]

Well, my friends pc running 4x16 dual rank sticks, so quad ranks per channel. Those are 3200mhz ram, but his pc can only go up to 2800mhz, since quad ranks has too much stress on IMC...

[@dallatorretdu]

@@qiyuxuan9437 @AmpEdition okay, didn't expected to have replies. Mine a very weird and expensive project on a custom case. We're talking about a Crosshair VIII Impact X570 motherboard. (2 Dimms) I had 2x32 Samsung Corsair 3200mhz memory which crashed sometimes even with looser timings and 2666 Now I'm on the QVL approved Corsair 3000 LPX 2x32, same samsung crap cells, crashed once in 2 days, unacceptable. I'm waiting on Crucial's own 2x32 3600C16. I don't really want to overclock them, but at least get the rated speed to speed up the infinity fabric, and i don't even know how to diagnose this, as it happens only in idle workloads and ad 4 hours of MemTest86

[@qiyuxuan9437]

@@dallatorretdu Not sure about crucial, they could be dual rank 32gb sticks depends on which die it has. My 16gb ballistix 3200mhz stick has Edie C9bjz, and its dual rank. If you want a bit more gaming performance, you could just keep your ram at 2666 or lower but with tight timing, and clock your fclk to 1800 or 1900. This wont improve the aida64 ram latency, but it does help the actual gaming performance.

[@dallatorretdu]

@@qiyuxuan9437 aha, cool tip :D actually the main purpose of this machine is to do video manipulation and encoding, and in a such program that loads the source clips in RAM, if it has to do some manipulation. so I thought lowering my intra-ccd latency would be much better

[@ole7736]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to take the max Linpack result instead of the average? I mean, you won't get artificially high results here, right?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

the thing is to get the peak performance you need to run it A LOT.

[@robertdunlop5247]

BZ The manual says the 60 code is 'DXE Core is started'.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

yeah that's not a valid error message

[@robertdunlop5247]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Yup. Just saying what it means.

[@StewartStewart]

What's the TL;DW? Timestamp?

[@SpuriousECG]

Well now I have 2 x DR 16GB 3600 CL16 and will be getting 4 x SR 8GB 3600 CL14, should be fun to play around with them and see what results I can get. All that's missing is a Zen 3 CPU :D

[@saleh3521]

So what did u get? This is bugging me. And now with ddr5 in the mix. 2 DR vs 4 SR.? Which is better?

[@oven88]

Those 3600MTs CL16 2x16gb micron kits are dual rank. BL2K16G36C16U4B

[@Atrak8]

Not all of them, it's a lottery between single and dual rank, and going forward your more and more likely to get single rank.

[@r3drumg33k3]

I cant remember exactly what speed Kingpin got on 32gb of trident z b die, I want to say over 4400 cl 14, the loss is raw mhz was made up for. He was on air getting better scores than a sr setup on ln2

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

DR can go up to like 4800 with good enough boards.

[@r3drumg33k3]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I am sure he was on the very best of the best z490 kingpin sample. I believe it was a 4000 c15 trident z kit. Luumi did a video covering his results a while back.

[@mauriceelet6376]

www.hardwareluxx.de/community/attachments/1604532342164-png.546100/ i mean with 2x16 you can go higher on CL14. just your good old 3200 14-14-14 ripjaws. but my friend even.de here that OCed that, has no luck with IMCs for frequenzy, so you may see higher settings.

[@jeremycronic]

Forget testing ram..get this man a stable table

[@jasonriddell]

and a "happy" capture card

[@thedarkangelpt]

i have g skill neo 3600 cl16 2x16... is that single rank or dual?

[@Cinnabuns2009]

Dual rank

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

if it's a couple months old it's probably dual rank

[@Cinnabuns2009]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking ah, so higher capacity chips are on the way then. Interesting. The new ones would be single sided 16GB though correct? So provided Rafael Azevedo can confirm he has 16GB dual sided sticks they're dual rank.

[@thedarkangelpt]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking bought it in september.

[@Devar]

@@Cinnabuns2009 dual sided does not necessarily mean dual rank. IGNORE the physical aspects of the chip layout.

[@manoelcavalcante2045]

Putting a 16GB 1RX8 (single rank) and another 16GB 2RX8 (dual rank) memory in the notebook can give a problem? Lose Performance? Both are 3200mhz CL 22 1.2V (all exclusive specs equal) / My notebook recognized dual chanel!

[@besssam]

Are you an engineer?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

no

[@MrDrago1954]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking Buildzoid is a self-taught genius when it comes to geeks! You have "out there", then you have "waaayyy out", then you have Buildzoid! ,

[@dadjokes8963]

@@MrDrago1954 true watched his mainboard pcb breakdowns when deciding which x570 to get confirmed what I feared the low end msi one was trash for my 3900x. still didnt understand a lot of what was said, but picked up enough to save headaches

[@boblister6174]

If no one else suggested it and a cheap hdmi switch for a button that is lacking in obs.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone outside of marketing teams, mostly Apple's, take Geekbench seriously. The closest I've heard to it is "Well, benchmarks target different workloads so it's all about your use case." However, I'm still waiting for whatever real world equivalent Geekbench measures.

[@iancurrie8844]

Ooof. I recently bought a 2x16GB kit to throw in a 12th gen system and move the older ram from that into my son's 8th gen system. It turns out they're single rank and at 3600Mhz, they perform WORSE in every test than the dual rank 2666Mhz kit that was in there! I guess I'll have to eat the return shipping costs.

[@bojamijams]

Can you expand on what you mean by "I did this on intel because on Ryzen the performance would behave all kinds of weird." ? What did you encounter on Ryzen ?

[@KyleEslickTheLegend]

On Ryzen you don't want to go faster than your infinity fabric or you lose your 1 to 1 lock with the processor. I think with Ryzen you up the frequency to the infinity fabric max then you tighten timings instead of going higher frequency.

[@RobBCactive]

The 3000 series CCX chiplets have 2x4 core with 16MiB cache and Infinity Fabric timing means FCLK of 1600,1700,1800,1900 but his RAM likes 133Mhz increment. The 5000 series performs much better with 4x8GiB or 2x dual rank and sometimes reaches 2000 FCLK. These effects would outweigh the point he's wanting to make. Even single thread can go from warm to cold cache.

[@bojamijams]

@@RobBCactive but SR vs DR performance would still show up even at 3400, 3600, 3800 ram speeds . Doesn't need to go past 4000 to show them right?

[@andersjjensen]

@@bojamijams You are correct, and that dude is talking out his bum with the CCX layout. Both Ryzen 3000 and Ryzen 5000 see the same benefit from single vs dual rank memory configurations. Buildzoid's angle was "is the frequency loss of 4 sticks worth it" and that is best answered on Intel systems, as the 10th gen memory controller doesn't tap out as early as the Ryzen one. On Ryzen the best option (for the vast majority of people) is 3800MT/s in a dual rank configuration with as tight timings as you can possibly squeeze out of it.

[@realgoose]

I’m trying to nail this down... Single Rank is better at overclocking Dual Rank is better out of the box with relative timings considered Is this correct?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

yes

[@volkankeklik1238]

what about if both of them are overclocked?

[@realgoose]

From the video... I believe the Dual Rank is a lot harder to OC. So an OC single vs stock dual might be equal or tip the win to Single Rank.

[@volkankeklik1238]

@@realgoose even if using 2 x 16gb b die dual ranks on daisy chain mobo?

[@realgoose]

@@volkankeklik1238 great question. I don’t know the answer to that. Honestly I had to rewatch sections of the video to get to this point. Ha.

[@hpcarlos2255]

Was wondering why not just make Mostly dual Rank memory kits, i believe Single Rank Sticks at higher Speeds OverClock better than dual Rank 🧐 either way when building my Ryzen 7 Rig i wanted all 4 Slots occupied …. Have No Proof butt i trust my Gut. Got a great deal on 4 x 8gb Single Rank Ram = Zero issues and my R7-3700x runs @ 4.5ghz with Temps under 73c with hours of intensive Cpu demanding games 🍷

[@TheSilentknyght]

I watched the whole thing, and still need a TLDR (W). For those of us looking for simple buying advice, what can you offer?

[@andersjjensen]

TL;DW: Get 4x4GB or 4x8GB of memory if you are a "high refresh competitive gamer" running 1080p with potato quality settings. You can also use 2x16GB but then you need to do some digging, as some 16GB sticks are single rank and others a dual rank, and you want to end up in dual rank. If you are an overclocker you go for 2x16GB dual rank because it is easier to get stable overclocks on 2 sticks. If you're a casual gamer you're going to be GPU limited, so it doesn't matter. If you are a content creator you don't care because the work is mostly so computationally heavy that memory throughput doesn't play a significant role. If you're Buildzoid you need more liquid nitrogen because 'em memory speeds are always too slow.

[@TheSilentknyght]

@@andersjjensen Appreciate it, thanks. I am a "1440p 144hz 'it must be beautiful'" gamer, so I'll go with 4x8. Seems like the old advice was always 2x? and never 4x?, so this is a bit unexpected. Cheers.

[@andersjjensen]

@@TheSilentknyght In that case the actual performance gains in gaming will be absolutely minimal (if any). You'll be GPU limited 99% of the time so the extra RAM oomph won't come into play. It really only is a thing for people who "play with competitive settings". That is, make sure they are always CPU limited (and their games look like pixel vomit from the 90s).

[@PainIsntExist]

What about 4x Dual rank? 4x DDR4 and each one is DR?

[@andersjjensen]

That is quad rank. From what I gather you aren't getting anything out of it on desktop platforms but it can have a tiny impact on HEDT platforms, and in certain workloads it can have a meaningful impact on servers. The reason being that they run quad or octa channel setups so the minute difference stacks op.

[@PainIsntExist]

@@andersjjensen That's what's shown in the video. I'm talking about something else and for the AMD platform. What happens to performance when you put 4 DDR4 and each will be dual ranks.

[@andersjjensen]

@@PainIsntExist I just answered that. Four dual rank sticks on a dual channel memory controller gives you quad rank on each channel. The rest was actually answered specifically to Ryzen, Threadripper and Epyc. TL;DR: It doesn't hurt performance. But you shouldn't spend extra to get there either.

[@alexanderbeiler818]

CPU-Z under SPD select your slot and it will tell you how many Ranks the sick have.

[@nighthog7003]

Single rank 16Gbit Micron Rev.E is bad. You struggle to do above 4200Mhz, after much hassle it topped out with 4333Mhz CL19-(19)-25-19-21-60 1T tRFC:670 SCL:6-6 tFAW:32 1.500V There is a voltage issue with these kits as you reach higher frequency. Just refuses to boot or reboots/crashes. Your voltage ceiling becomes lower and lower as you increase your frequency.

[@krandeloy]

From what I heard, a common cause of why nvidia may work worse with something is usually because the developer of whatever app that's having trouble is working with a blackbox. nvidia is super sensitive to being sure no one but them knows everything that goes on under the hood as it were. Generally I've heard that they want to be sure 3rd parties are locked out entirely about what goes on under the hood. Fortunately however nvidia does put a lot of effort and $ into making sure that blackbox calculations are stable, just that 3rd party devs can easily be introducing inefficiency by accident ... well more unintentional inefficiency than what one can expect normally due to people generally not being perfect programmers..

[@chalermlab8925]

haha Bill Lloyd

[@davidjohansson1416]

I love memmory

[@stigi3849]

Buildzoid is MY bestfriend:)

[@georgeivanov844]

You're repeating yourself at this point, so I'll give you another idea - "Buildzoid is my shepherd."

[@stigi3849]

@@georgeivanov844 I know:) But he is Actually MY bestfriend:)

[@maxoo._]

4x4Gb Crucial Ballistix Elite here 😎 Samsung E-die ic's... (BLE4G4D32AEEA.K8FE)

[@VargVikernes1488]

What a fantastic video! Can somebody make a tl/dw?