Practical Marksmanship in the Mountains - Part 2

[@gregmurphy5014]

your video’s are awesome man! doing my first real mountain hunt in B.C. Canada for mule deer in the fall and your videos really helped a ton in my planning and prep. I feel much more confident now. thank you!

[@CliffGray]

Good luck up there. I use to spend my Spring up there. Miss it a ton. Glad the video was useful.

[@tealtazmanian966]

This is one of the things a lot of hunters do not account for. I'm a strong proponent for practice, practice practice in a variety of terrain. THIS IS WHY I find Cliffs videos so Helpful and REAL for about every person serious about bringing meat home. This is good for most everyone I know, even those hunters that brag about hunting for decades...there is something we can glean from EVERYONE. I still learn and I'm 70rys old and hunted since I was 14 when I took my first White Tail Buck in Montana. Cliff tells us in a way we can relate so we know the How and Why he is teaching us his very valuable methods he's learned over the decades....HINT; he didn't just learn all this from when he started guiding...he had to have a lot of this information BEFORE he GUIDED his First Client so don't get fooled into thinking he just recently learned any of his invaluable teachings. Some times I just use my Walking Stick for those uphill shots....if I have time for it. There are times using a rest just isn't allowed for time wise...say they are alerted but haven't spotted me yet. I know they're about to BOLT and with practice I know I can take a shot under 250yrds and still take meat home....Not bragging but I shoot about every month of the year and do about 50-50 rest and freehand in all different terrains and elevations and temperatures. Yeah that makes a bit of difference. Like shooting Uphill our bullet drops slightly MORE and the reverse is true for Downhill shots due to GRAVITY. Shooting is like anything else and it takes practice and a lot of it. I usually use my 22 rim fire as they are so much cheaper to use up but I am STILL getting used to that Report even tho there is no recoil it helps....Sights, Sounds and Elevation Changes get set into your MUSCLE MEMORY no matter the caliber rifle. I taught my kids all these practice sessions and they are now teaching their kids...This is nothing new folks but since the bulk of our population has moved to the cities these practices are all but forgotten. Cliff seems to be natural at teaching us his knowledge and I appreciate him taking the time and expense of making each of these videos...I think it's because he's just one of us and doesn't act or get all EGOED-OUT in front of a camera.

[@CliffGray]

Really appreciate all the nice comments and additional tips you have left for folks. Greatly appreciate the support. Thanks!

[@scotmcalexander9314]

Once again Cliff you give such practical useful information. Thankyou

[@CliffGray]

Thanks!

[@charlesbond4413]

This is an important video. I’m usually on steeper mountain sides and you absolutely need to work out your position ahead of time. Funny thing this past year, a forkhorn that I wasn’t going to shoot came running past me with two does. I decided to aim, see how fast I could steady my shot. This was on the flats, with my bipod extended, I was below the sage brush. I never practiced flat shots in sage. When hunting flats, I bring sticks. But, I almost burst out laughing because I couldn’t get my scope, eye and the forkhorn lined up until it stopped on the mountainside to look back. It was a kneeling shot with a rest for a sitting shot. Now it was close enough for an offhand, but I wanted to test my skills. I failed. Now I’ve added that 42” high shot to my practice. I had one pole, I can now use it for a

[@CliffGray]

Thanks Charles!

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

Excellent advice all around Cliff. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts on all the various angles and how to best compensate for this.

[@CliffGray]

thanks Forrest!

[@lyellclare9365]

One thing a lot of hunters forget is that when shooting at an angle the target is often much closer (range wise ) than it seems. That is why a good range finder with a true range app is handy.

[@guns4funfreedomkeeper999]

My experience is quite limited by comparison but I have had good luck with practicing shooting off my pack in various conditions because I always have it.

[@CliffGray]

absolutely. for some vegetation it might be tough to get high enough on your pack but as you say the key is to practice off of it and the fact you always have it.

[@jimholman5045]

Outstanding advice. Thank you

[@CliffGray]

thanks Jim!

[@christopheroconnor1847]

Thank you

[@sheerwillsurvival2064]

Excellent real life situations great video and experience advice

[@CliffGray]

thanks for the feedback!

[@zacktaylor3441]

Great video thanks

[@keithross4511]

New to your videos. Have subscribed. Super great information! Thank you !!

[@MrOlarry72]

Thanks. This is where i continue to keep trying to do better. The hatch bipod looks great. But seems heavy no?

[@CliffGray]

Yeah, just practice. I'll do a review video on the Hatch bipod - they aren't too bad in terms of weight, particularly given they are detachable. You can stick in your pack, etc... I have another rest video where I shoot with the Hatch bipod and a bunch of other rests. It will be out in a couple weeks. Thanks man!

[@mpccenturion]

The first shoot I ever went to - competition - My rifle blew a case. Separation. Took my rifle out. Guy about 30 yrs older - told me I could borrow his rifle and continue. I got back into the que and kept going. Iron - I was average. My first intro to scopes was later. My first shot was 3 inches high at 100. But once I had that - i welded my cheek and shot 2 X's. In the end - myself and an army guy were tied. We shot a second 3 shot - Tied. Every time I cheeked that scope - I was 3 inches high. So - the guys said whoever shoots closest to x. So - one at a time - we shot- one shot. Because I was seeing this 3 inch issue - I kept dropping 3 inches and squeezing. Hitting center X. We tied twice more. I fired the first shot - this round and dropped it 6 inches. F! Army guy did a great job and X'd it! I was the first guy to shake his hand, great shooting by him! That was 45 yrs ago. Parallax is a bugaboo you need to sort out with shooting! It is sad - 2 yrs later - 35 comments. Guys don't want to succeed! ?

[@CliffGray]

very true. appreciate the real world example. thanks

[@joshlaubach8166]

I completely agree,also what sucks is us East guys the gun clubs won’t allow any shooting other than on a bench. Farthest gun range near me is 300 yds and they now have 2 range officers walking around watching shooters for safety violations. Another gun club has video cameras where they watch you from clubhouse and will boot you off range if you move off the bench. On all my mountain hunts first thing I do is figure out how I am shooting from all angles wherever I sit.

[@CliffGray]

I hear ya Josh. Really common issue for guys - just a lack of options for getting out and practicing out East. Lots of folks in the same boat.

[@petekendrick1598]

High angle shots have shorter or less bullet drop ballistics

[@dargie12317]

I love your videos cliff thank you for time, and what is the name of your outfitters?

[@CliffGray]

thanks man, appreciate the feedback

[@ryan6937]

Cliff, I am really learning a lot and enjoying all of your videos. What kind of ammunition/bullets do you recommend for mountain deer and elk hunting?

[@CliffGray]

We've got it on the list to do a short video on calibers/bullets. The short answer: choose a caliber you can shoot comfortably without developing a flinch (for smaller folks like myself this is usually a 270/308/7mm... with a 308 or 7mm being modified with a muzzlebrake to reduce recoil). Larger people and those with abnormally high recoil tolerance, 300 win mag is a common elk caliber. On bullet selection: High quality 150-185grns usually do the trick. I've found that most the lightweight mtn rifles (like the highly accurate and inexpensive tikkas) are sensitive to the bullets you use. You will find a big accuracy difference between weights and brands... sometimes as much as 100-150% increase in 100yd groupings.

[@jamesmooney5348]

👍

[@davidgreenapple9397]

People have told me that when you shoot downwards angle on a target that you don't aim at the bullseye. You aim below it and the impact occurs at the bullseye. First, is this true, and if yes, how do you "measure" how far below to aim based on distance to target?

[@CliffGray]

Hi David, think about it as a geometry concept. There are some details I'll ignore (they aren't really relevant at the ranges we typically shoot at as hunters), but the main force on the bullet is gravity. If you are taking a range to an animal with an angle, that range is the hypotenuse of the triangle. The effect gravity will have on the bullet is based on the base of the triangle, not the hypotenuse. Hence, if you are shooting at an upward angle OR a downward angle, the bullet will drop less than you expected, if using the range along the hypotenuse as your shooting distance. This is a little counter intuitive because a lot of folks think, well if I'm angled down I aim low then if angled up, I must shoot/aim high. Its actually BOTH = aim low. If you really want to nerd out, it's the distance you should shoot for is = Cosine of Angle * hypotenuse (AKA your line of sight distance). So, all of that detail for understanding. The vast majority of range finders now have built in "angle compensation" so when you get a range off of these devices the range is actually the base of the triangle. So if you shoot for the distance that the angle-compensated range finder gives you, then you don't have to "aim low" or make any other adjustment. Hope that helps.

[@davidgreenapple9397]

@@CliffGray Awesome reply and thank you for taking the time. Would like to reach out to you by email. Do you have a suggested address please? One I used failed.

[@johnhoffman8203]

The angle he was on was about 35 degrees so the cos 35 = .8 (close enough). So if the critter was 400 yards down the hill then 400 x .8 = 320, so adjust for 320 yards.

[@davidgreenapple9397]

@@johnhoffman8203 Now that's some learning! I'm impressed and thank you.

[@jackdundon2261]

If that 80 yards cost you hitting the vitals of a deer or an elk, then you got bigger problems than aiming Low or too high, or Any other nonsense

[@heron123100]

How do you know where to aim to compensate for the wind?

[@CliffGray]

You can use a ballistics app to calculate this for you. While hunting I have 3-4 of these wind holds written down or memorized for a 10mph. The nice thing about wind holds is they are linear - the hold for a 5mph wind is 50% the hold for a 10mph wind. Hope that helps!

[@lancesmith654]

which bipod is that?

[@CliffGray]

Hatch

[@jeffkappelmckiefordlincoln715]

what rifle is that and chambering?

[@keatonjorgensen8793]

Tikka t3 7mm rem mag