That's NOT Karate!

[@KARATEbyJesse]

I do a throw: "That's Judo!" I do a wrist lock: "That's Aikido!" I do a groin stomp "That's Ameridote!"

[@adhdmed]

If you say your throws are judo and joint locks Aikido and you say your kicks are Savat, then which part is Karate? Its more likely that Karate developed alot of its own effective techniques, although some techniques are from Chinese, Japanese and Korean Martial arts. Like tornado kicks are from Korean Martial arts. High kicks are in Kata of Tang Sudo/ China Hand.

[@ianhenderson3078]

You have to RE-stomp the groin for it to be Ameri-do-te. Otherwise, it's just Krav McGa.

[@onlyhuman7420]

And always restomp that groin.

[@officialblkreign9330]

In Hidetaka Nishiyama's book on Karate, he says locks, throws, kicks, punches, and strikes. He was "traditional'. That's the lineage that I'm from. And his teacher was Funakoshi.

[@Chapperino]

Fancy seeing you here!

[@laperrablanca1]

Great point you made Iain sensei. About 2 months ago, I participated in a kumite training, where we made some drills before going to light sparring randori. One of the drills comsisted of deflecting a straight punch and immediately or at the same time responding with a punch. I responded with a hook to the face, which I found it very convenient as I stepped aside his straight punch, and my partner said "oh no, that's not karate"... Half an hour later, I asked the instructor about that, specially as we were practicing light non competitive sparring, and we should include much more elements, and he said that indeed, hook punches are part of many katas, very effective, and should be practiced. He also encouraged us to try grabbing, grappling etc. I was really happy that the instructor was much more open-minded than some of the practitioners

[@dwgould2001]

just tell them mawashi tsuki - Ura Tsuki, Roundhouse and upper cut- Funnily enough Funakoshi removed the upper cuts from Patssai -Bassai, it was in one of his books, he stated that they " uppercuts" wasn't an honourably punch. Yet in most varations of this kata, the upper cuts are still there, at least in the older versions. Got be careful how I word this in present day conditions. I''ve thought on this for many years and beggining to wonder if the oriental condition for short sightness had something to do with this? I think that Funakoshi might have had a blind spot for uppercuts and he was keen to get rid of them. Just like westerners who have blind spots for hooks and uppercuts, i'm pretty sure that this was why they've been downplayed - it's no fun beinig hit with a punch you can't see coming.

[@vteran93]

I have a partner in the dojo that is brown belt, but always happens the same. And I am green belt.

[@theflamingone8729]

​@@dwgould2001 uppercuts aren't honourable, but squirrel grips are?

[@TacoRice24]

I lived and trained in Okinawa for 2 years with Kuba Yoshio sensei of Goju Ryu Karate. We were doing hooks, punching from guard with the heel coming off the ground exactly the same as boxing. Grappling, knees, elbows, throws, takedowns locks and holds. It is all Karate.

[@dobermanrage]

"True karate is this: that in daily life one's mind and body be trained and developed in a spirit of humility, and that in critical times, one be devoted utterly to the cause of justice." Gichin Funakoshi

[@simonrcarson]

Well said. "Times change, the world changes, and obviously the martial arts must change too."

[@C5films]

I spent a significant amount of my karate learning expressing puzzlement at things that I always assumed to belong to other martial arts; locks and holds I assumed to be Aikido, throws and sweeps I attributed to judo or Jiu Jitsu, groundwork I believed to be wrestling or BJJ. It's only when one begins to unravel or learn the Bunkai of the Katas, that one can realise that all these things always belonged to Okinawan karate. I was fortunate to learn from a great instructor who understood this. As well as being fortunate to learn with Iain Abernethy when circumstances permit!

[@TheBlahblah86]

I'm saving this onto my phone. I trained in Washin-Ryu before moving to a new town that had a Tang Su Do school. Moving from NY to MD, I found it so weird how so many people referred to Taekwondo and Tangsudo as karate, and what I thought of as karate was so drastically different from what others did.

[@captainbeaver_man903]

I trained TSD and TKD for 20 years before trying Shotokan. Tang Soo Do is literally just how you pronounce the okinawan kanji for "karate do" in Korean, the japanese Kanji translates as Kong Soo Do in Korean. When I started Shotokan it was such an easy transition because TSD/TKD were originally just a Korean version of Shotokan. The first Korean school to open was the Chung Do Kwan and its founder was awarded 4th dan from Funakoshi. I had an instructor that used to say things like "Judo today is my karate tomorrow". Basically, if it works Im going to adopt it into my training.

[@killaben85]

Taekwondo isn't Karate but Tang Soo Do is definitely Korean Karate.

[@captainbeaver_man903]

@@killaben85 I mean, TKD started off as TSD with a bit of Judo and Chinese arts incorporated. They just changed the name during the unification in the late 1950s. Early TKD even used Karate kata (hyung) until the creation of the palgue forms and later the Chang Hon and Taegeuk. The first Hyung used in Taekwondo were the same used in Shotokan.

[@killaben85]

@@captainbeaver_man903 my comment wasn't aimed at you it was at the original comment

[@captainbeaver_man903]

@@killaben85 either way, calling TKD karate isnt too far off even if modern TKD has become much more individual and unique from its karate roots.

[@captainbeaver_man903]

Historically, Im pretty sure it is clearly demonstrated that Karate was developed over time by adapting many styles into one. As my instructor used to say "Judo today is my Karate tomorrow", basically saying if it worked he was gonna try to incorporate it into his training.

[@YoukaiSlayer12]

Very correct. The fact there were(as now) different variations of Karate & katas in Okinawa before Karate started to spread into mainland Japan just supports your point even more. As the the commentary of the old masters & the stuff they wrote down that mentions locks, throws & etc. Thank you for doing the video.

[@retroghidora6767]

The funny thing is, if you go back in history far enough, anyone who practices Karate will have throws, knees, elbows, etc. in their lineage's curriculum at some point. It's pretty clear that Karate was more than literally just punches and kicks. If people care about this martial art's tradition they should consider investing time into researching what from their practice has been lost to time.

[@Eliphas_Leary]

If someone says "That's not Karate!" just look at your open hands and say "But my hands are empty!"

[@yaacovbloch7276]

I would love to see the ground work kata you developed if you're willing to share it

[@practicalkatabunkai]

There’s a couple of breakdowns of it in my app and I have taught it at seminars. I find a good way to introduce the basics and give people a karate-congruent framework to develop further from there. It’s a fun drill too :-) iainabernethy.co.uk/iain-abernethys-applied-karate-kata-bunkai-app

[@NYKgjl10]

Karate is very diverse, was and will forever be diverse from CQC and a little bit in between, Karate has it all. As a current Kyokushin practitoner for 13 years (TKD background and also doing cross training in Kickboxing now), Karate continues to evolve which is vital and us as practitioners, we must grow to learn more knowledge which is a never ending journey. This video is well made and I'm with you Iain 1,000%.

[@tatsudojollc4694]

The karate I study and share today looks nothing like it did in the early 80s when I started training. It is the product of studying other combative arts like jujitsu and boxing (like a lot of us do) and making it a part of ourselves and how we define, "karate." Great video as always. Thanks for the work behind it.

[@MrBeiragua]

I have the impression that karate was a more personal practice in old Okinawa. Maybe each practitioner felt that he had his own karate at the same time they were part of a general "karate-osphere", but now people see karate as something belonging to somebody else and it can't change or something. It's more top down than inside out.

[@hogger4321]

Your a huge inspiration to me mate thanks for all your hard work!

[@aleksandarradovanovic0802]

Simple, true and reasonable talking. Agree completely. In our club we are doing basically and generally JKA karate, but including also some various Jujitsu elements and techniques, similar like Judo, Aikido, and other styles, particularly in self defense practice and variations,. Also joint locks and wrestling. And why not to do all it. As we can see, JKA masters are also exploring various other martiial arst during some last years, and Sensei Naka is big example for that.

[@paulhurley5193]

And the late Sensei Kanazawa. He practised Goju Ryu and Tai Chi.

[@KarateDrSanDiego]

I train under a dojo on Okinawa and many people have told me that I don't do karate... What is even funnier is that they will challenge my clinical anatomy for applications (I hold an MD and taught clinical anatomy to Doctoral candidates)

[@vonclap]

I wonder if Funikoshi Giko got as much flak when he added the mawashi geri to the shotokan syllabus ?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Good point! This “must never change” thing is definitely modern.

[@MrMickyboyblue]

I could listen to you talk about Karate all day mate. Oh yeah I still have the Drills interactive DVD - I found it through the old monthly Combat Magazine. (used to love that) When it first came out. Its worked also with various styles like wing chun, muay thai and boxing - for solo practice it's such a valuble tool. A long period of ill health and not being able to do anything has made me want to go back to where it all began with Karate back in the 80's when I'm better. Like a craving & I'm 50 now !! I will no doubt put the interactive dvd back in the tool box when I'm finally able to continue the journey. 🙏

[@adhdmed]

Modern Karate was changed to be a striking art but traditional Karate also had throws and joint locks.

[@brucebolduc3403]

Look at the forms and you may see a lot of those (throws, locks) in the kata

[@RavenburnX]

I am green belt Wado Ryu and you are correct, we do have some arm locks involved in it 👍🏻

[@ColneCrusader]

Iain Sensei you have confirmed to me how much I appreciate my Sensei and club. We practice Shotokan based Karate (as well as Judo, Ju-jitsu, Aikido and Iaido), but we always try to explore Karate as it was originally in Okinawa in all its brutal and efficient glory, and we always look for techniques that would work in a real situation whether that be grabs, throws, pressure points or even a crafty nip to the thigh to escape a hold :-) . We always look for the locks and throws hidden in the kata. It's strange how people seem to be so tribal and divisive by nature. We know that all these techniques are hidden in the kata and the "OLD" Karate definitely utilised all these techniques that people claim are "NOT Karate". It's funny how many non martial artists think that karate consists of nothing more than a few straight punches and kicks and nothing more.

[@timlinator]

Karate means "Empty Hand". It includes a lot of techniques, all kind of strikes, joint locks and throws. Grappling techniques likely come from Tegumi (Okinawan wrestling) not Judo or Jujitsu.

[@GBlues1]

People confuse style, for system. Karate as you yourself have said, that the old masters stated, (and I’m paraphrasing, but basically), that karate is a system of fighting to protect the end user by use of the hands and feet should they be accosted by a ruffian or group of ruffians. The problem is as you begin to make the karate your own you begin to develop your own “style” of the system of karate. Your “style” isn’t Karate, it’s your interpretation of the system of Karate that you learned. That’s why there is so much confusion about how to interpret the katas. Because everyone is teaching their “style” of karate. When what needs to be taught is the system of karate, and then allow the student to go out into the world and make their own style of karate that works for them. Like you just said some of the masters would send their students to different schools to learn specific things. The system itself should be kept, pretty sterile. Your “style” of it should have as much, or as little flavor as you want. That’s how I think about it.

[@fabio1160]

IMHO, a fact forgotten by many is that a martial art is NOT a "catalog of moves". I mean: combat sports do by definition have a set of rules, and therefore sets of moves that are allowed or not allowed, but martial arts in general are not mutually exclusives set of moves, like videogame characters. Aikido, judo "have" strikes, Karate "has" throws, and I use the verb in quotes, because it is not really the move set that qualifies the martial art. The art is a path, a framework for learning: it is the way in which you choose to learn how to fight. OF COURSE every art will put its "accent" on specific maneuvers, depending on the context for which that art was created. But this does not mean that ANY art is a rigid, videogame-like move set. Second factor: when in a close-range physical altercation, the differences in between what technique is what tend to blur... if I "bicep bump" my enemy on the jaw, and proceed to neck-ring him to drop him on the ground, is that bicep bump a strike, a throw, or a kuzushi? If I strike the elbow during an armbar attempt, and I manage to pop it, and the other guy falls...is this a strike, an armbar, a trow?...

[@julianroninbb]

One of the main things that made me leave the JKA (apart from the Chief Instructor in my country being an awful person...) was the fact that there was only ever 1 way to do the Bunkai & trying different variations & trying different methods like you yourself do was "wrong"... For example your Bunkai for Jion & Gankaku was very similar to what I came up with as well! 😅 & I basically got told off for doing it in class... 😂 Which is hilarious to me because I had recently been studying at a Kyokushin school where they were so open to learning new methods! No wonder a lot of high ranking people seem to leave the JKA. I genuinely felt like I was in some kind of cult.

[@mauriceshapero7200]

Hi Iain, thank you for your videos. You’ve cleared up so many of the questions I’ve had over the years about karate. You may have a video about this question I’ve not found yet - why in karate are the moves practiced with a pause between each technique? As in jun tzuki why is the punch stopped in mid air and held out? Why do you hold a block in position? Is it to hold form, to teach the body the perfect final end position? It’s so different to boxing where the practice is the same as actual combat - continuous and flowing.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It’s to clearly “map out” the position that must be reached. Funakoshi tells us that “Beginners use stances [fixed positions]. Advanced students use natural postures”. It’s not that the advanced student abandons stances, more that the stances of the beginner become the natural positions of the advanced student. Nakasone expands on that by saying, “Karate has many stances, it also has none” (one of my favourite karate quotes). If we freeze a given motion, then we have a “stance”, but in application the stances are flowed to and through. Without mapping them out, it is hard for people to get how to move. Tell a beginner to “project your bodyweight forward” and they will look at you blankly. Tell them to “move into this shape” (zenkutsu dachi) and they will start to get it. The intuitive used of bodyweight will eventually become quite natural. I liken it to being taught how to tee off in golf. An instructor will make sure the student gets the key positions i.e. backswing, contact, follow through. A “golf swing kata” would map out those positions. When striking the ball, we hit all of those positions, but don’t freeze on them. The map is not the territory and all that. Kata aims to be a clear “map”. Bunkai, drills, sparring, etc is the territory. There’s more on this on the article and video linked below. YOU WROTE: “Is it to hold form, to teach the body the perfect final end position?” In short, yes :-) I hope that helps. All the best, Iain Article: iainabernethy.co.uk/article/my-stance-stances Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2SQdWWJYr9mpq8

[@mauriceshapero7200]

@@practicalkatabunkai Hi Iain, thank you so much for this explanation - it makes perfect sense. I do now find myself adopting postures fluidly after many years of practicing fixed positions - It's counterintuitive to think this would be the result, but they must have figured something out about how the body learns to move. Do you think the same explanation applies to punches? Holding the punch out in kihon or kata practice has never hindered my ability to snap back in sparring and I'd say it has increased my focus and power. Again this is counterintuitive in the sense that boxers never train to hold the punch out. I think it must be something to do with volume, fitness and sport. in the sense that karate is designed for quick, hopefully a single blow, self defence encounters. Rather than a protracted bout with hundreds of punches being traded.

[@mauriceshapero7200]

@@practicalkatabunkai I just read your article about stances. I've just started Wado Ryu again after a few decades of doing other things. They emphasise punching while you're still moving into a stance. This mirrors something you say too - and it does make perfect sense. I always though with jun-zuki you stepped and then punched. I'm really struggling with the timing - even more so with gyaku-zuki!

[@mikeandlisabanjofiddle8280]

Well said Sir. As a TKD practitioner the same could be said. As you progress in the practice of the art it becomes yours Thanks for the video.

[@williamkrevey1098]

I interpret karate to be above other arts in that we practice it to try to make our kohai better than ourselves. To develop and use the most proper human body mechanics for speed, power, efficiency and to just look really cool. Perhaps karate means... as a sensi of mine once so eloquently said. Empty hand way has a double meaning. It could be interpreted as meaning emptying one self of preconceived notions, not just using your hands for combat. Excellent point you make. Cheers!

[@tonygallagher6989]

I'm always astounded by the level of martial arts knowledge I find in comment sections on KZbin. People who've never studied a martial art tell someone who's practised it for years that they don't know what they're doing. Let's all bow down to the real masters and ignore the fact that we have never heard of them.

[@carl4033]

@tonygallagher I agree with you. I find it strange that these anonymous masters I see online say Olympic level Kumite athletes aren't any good at fighting because they don't use full contact. I would love to see these same people spar with them to find out.

[@mykhendrix]

Good video. Sick of people gatekeeping online. Thank you for sharing.

[@TimRHillard]

Right on. There is so much cross over between all martial arts, maybe with small differences. But a good idea is a good idea. As is a good punch, a good punch, no matter what it's called. That cross over helps me learn, as in I see something familiar, and I think, okay I can do that and understand it. Gives me something ro build on.

[@Priestbokmei1]

Excellent, excellent, excellent, video/discussion, Sensei! Thank you for posting this.

[@simonbudden662]

You nailed it Iain, well said.

[@killaben85]

I think it's similar idea of a Boxer who studies HEMA Bare-Knuckle Boxing. You see throws, limited kicking, and weird punches and people will say that's not Boxing. But it is just an older version of it, and you could easily argue that modern boxing is superior to old boxing. But by learning both you learn the full system and have more tools under you belt. This also isn't a unique idea, Mike Tyson would study old school Boxers with Cus D'Amato and add their tricks to his own game.

[@vitormaltez]

I totally agree with this vision of karate. I would like to see the kumite in the olimpics with throws and joint locks finalizations.

[@bobg5362]

Dear Lord I made the same observation about the roundhouse kick to my instructor a couple of years ago. I know of no form in (in any style) created prior to the 50s/60s that has it. It is clearly a relatively recent addition.

[@MrMattias87]

For me, having done Aikido as my first art before getting into Karate, I don't see that much difference between the locks & throws from Aikido in Karate. I see them as the same because the principles are the same. The only difference is execution. Then I crossed trained into muay thai to supplement my karate, and again I see the techniques and strategies are the same because the principles and the goals are the same. The only difference is the execution and the different ranges that they fight from. Basically I just see similarities which I can relate to techniques in Karate. I suppose the differences are the names and the execution but the principles remain the same.

[@alexblue6991]

I have always liked old school karate even at my age of 70yr I still do bare knuckles planks on a wooden floor and punch the heavy bag also trained in boxing and takwondo various clubs I found I have to adapt what I can do and I get older

[@kevinburkett9018]

Unfortunately people have already made up their minds about what they believe and there’s never any shortage of counter arguments and excuses. e.g. “Karate may have had throws and grappling back in the day, but they’re very rudimentary and other arts do them better. Go learn Judo and BJJ.”

[@practicalkatabunkai]

They key thing for me is always to have a clear goal and be mindful of context. It is undoubtedly true that Judo has highly refined throws (which is why I spent some time doing it). However, the essential goal of much of modern Judo is to out-throw a fellow thrower withing the context of the modern competition. I would estimate that only around 10% of what I learnt in sporting judo was relevant to karate i.e. throws where you deliberately go to the ground (most) are tactically incongruent, continuing to look for a win on the ground (instead of looking to get back up) is likewise tactically incongruent, the methods of turning a face down player onto their back to get the pin are interevent, etc. Judo is great and well worth studying just to learn judo. From a karate perspective, as a full-time martial artists, I can justify the time to pick up the relevant 10%. However, for many, the time would not be well spent as training time is limited, you would be taking training time away from the karate and giving it to the judo, and therefore the striking, etc would suffer. The less refined throws of karate fit within the wider training framework, integrate with the other methods (striking, trapping, etc) and are suitable for the defined goal. Alternatively, people could seek out an instructor who has done the work for you and “polished” the karate throws a little by learning from the expert judoka (similar to how Funakoshi said Asato and Itosu would send him to study under experts in given methods). Long comment, but bottom line I agree that “Just study X instead” is a poor argument because of differing objectives, contexts and the fact that X is not going to be “elite” in all martial elements either. Can’t be an expert in everything, so we seek to be beginners in nothing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH_FapavqMuCnMU

[@alwaystraining54]

Kevin Burkett as I happen to read this without first noticing who posted it I thought to myself, that sounds exactly like what my friend Kevin Burkett would say…😄 (JH from PMA)

[@kevinburkett9018]

@@alwaystraining54 Small world haha

[@retroghidora6767]

Mawashi geri as done with toes or the ball of the foot is actually present in early Karate books. Mawashi geri slowly starts being done with the top of the foot/instep more and more as the 1900s wear on. It's interesting following the change through the shotokan "lineage" from Gichin Funakoshi's early work to the books of his students in the 50s on through the 80s. They (his students) even explicitly lay out that these are variations of the same core technique.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I’m not sure I would agree with the term “early” when describing the ball of foot version. It’s not there in any form in the books I am aware of from the 1920s until the late 1950s. In Funakoshi’s books, the first-time roundhouse appears is in the second addition of Karate-Do Kyohan (1958). Funakoshi wrote a forward for that book but had died before it came out. It’s not in any of his earlier books. It’s also not in the books of Mabuni, Motobu, Nakasone, etc. It’s obviously also not in the traditional kata. Showing my age, but it was the ball of foot version that I was first taught :-)

[@michaelbuelow9275]

See also: Dunning/Krueger.

[@brianhanlon3527]

As always, interesting and insightful video. You may have done a video on this topic before, and I may have missed it, what are your thoughts on preservation versus advancement in regards to the Kata? In KoRyu, we have similar issues. Being much older than karate and somewhat more definitive in our curriculums there are still discoveries to be made when you learn the entirety of a Ryu. It’s akin to getting a graduate degree and then going into research. There are those who would say you must pass on the Ryu exactly as it was taught and others who believe it should be improved upon with each generation? The foundation is the Kata though, and to really understand them in a KoRyu one needs to learn them all and do them on a regular basis. In a way I feel that preservation and advancement need to coexist else the meaning can slip from the movement. Curious if you think this applies to karate as well. And if so, who has the rights be advancing and who has the right to preserve?

[@andreipacurariu2013]

Great content and delivery as usual :)!

[@billc.4584]

Great clip, as always. Wondering if, "That's not karate (as I understand it)." might not be closer to the mark. I've come to regard karate as the first and best MMA seeing as how we pretty much steal unapologetically from other styles and incorporate what works. Peace.

[@juhaandersson6975]

A great video once again. One aspect that you don't mention here (although you know) is the egos of different senseis and organizasions. They all know of course the original and true karate... For example, I don't think Ohtsuka sensei would get nowadays black belt in a style he invented. ☺️

[@Warp_Speed_Hippo]

Fantastic video. Thanks so much.

[@baldaction3510]

Very good summary, but I wonder, at the end of the day, what is the definition you would use for Karate that encompass everything that Karate is and leave everything it is not ?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

As I mention in the video, I think the only thing we can use to define karate is something having its roots with the Okinawan karateka who first used that label. It will have grown and branched from there but trace it back and we find the same small group of people. By way of example, Judo is not Karate because the likes of Higaonna, Matsumura, Motobu, Funakoshi, Mabuni, Miyagi, Kyan, etc do not feature in the “family tree” of Judo. They do, however, feature in all the various branches of karate.

[@dermotrooney9584]

I think Funakoshi recommended people walk wide round corners to avoid ambush, but the parachute regiment does too, so the edges are blurry. I still paint fences like Pat Morita though.

[@ernestbrennecke3660]

@@practicalkatabunkai Empty hand covers it all. Add a weapon and call it kobudo. Simple to me.

[@JasonPennellKarate]

Since karate (kə-rä′tē) literally means, "empty hand", no one has the right to apply a restrictive definition to what it "is" or "Isn't". Hell, karate is not even strictly Okinawa in origin. Everything in the world (including karate) is a culmination of that which came before it. All that matters is that IF you train in "karate", you get some internal fulfillment from it. And if you're lucky - it's also effective. Good, common sense video.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

I guess some could argue it was originally “Chinese Hand” (唐手) as opposed to “Empty Hand” (空手) and therefore anything not Chinese in origin is not “karate”. However, the fact the name was changed, and the changed name is now the accepted one, does show once again that karate is an ever-evolving system.

[@bashlivingstonstampededojo882]

I also get criticized for going up off my heel and pivoting off the ball of my foot I'm told you're supposed to keep the heel down I practice punching both ways but I like to pivot off the ball of foot especially from longer range helps me add more power and leverage

[@officialblkreign9330]

Boxing was different before the rules instituted in the late 1800"s. Then every country has slightly different boxing styles as well. The list can go on and on. When you truly study any martial art in depth most of the lines begin to blur and disappear.

[@vagnerbeneditopiccinatto5577]

No João existe uma frase que os Mestres dizem. Entre ela forma e saia da forma. Oque vc está dizendo tem tudo a ver com essa frase. Devemos aprender as formas clássicas mas não devemos ficar preso a elas porque o único objetivo e encontrar uma defesa pessoal que funcione. Concordo com vc.

[@MP-oj6zo]

Cobra kai never dies

[@TheSimolit]

Doing Fuji Ryu Ju Jutsu made my Karate better. My understanding of bunkai grew because the stand up/take down grappling techniques in Ju Jutsu were easy to see in kata practice. Are those Ju Jutsu techniques in Karate - heck yeah.

[@davidbovill9204]

Instead of saying "That's not karate." a person would be better served if they asked themselves is this something I can adopt considering how I train and the goals of my training? This way you are not attempting to diminish something else to feel better. You are attempting to become better.

[@warrickdawes7900]

Yeah, not the biggest fan of mawashi geri (probs not Robinson Crusoe their either!) but the only kata I can think of with any mawashi geri is Unsu. Since it's not prevalent in the kata series I can imagine that it was only a modern invention. Come to think of it, as I don't know Unsu, I wonder what the history of it is?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

There are other versions that back kick from the floor at that point and, to my knowledge, only Shotokan do the kick in a way that looks something like a roundhouse …. Although, I would argue the kick is not really a roundhouse because it’s done from the floor and often goes “forward” i.e. in the direction of the performer’s head - which would be “up” if they were standing - as opposed to “across”.

[@ruiseartalcorn]

Great stuff! I totally agree!

[@justinstuart8382]

I thought you were talking about Cobra Kai 😂

[@justinstuart8382]

I'm right tho eh!

[@reneelumpkin1319]

Great open minded opinion. I wish more karate practitioners can be objective as well. Thanks for the video.

[@mituc]

The human body can bend and can transmit mechanical work in a limited number of ways. Martial arts and/or fighting systems tend to differ between each other mostly by some minor details of the form of the punches/kicks/stances. Kage-tsuki or mawashi tsuki are called hook punch in other styles/fighting systems, ura-tsuki is an uppercut, mawashi-geri is roundhouse kick, yoko-geri is a side kick, and so on and so on. Also, when a martial arts style borrows some move/stance/form from another one can be called evolution without any danger of making a mistake. It's like different languages borrow works and adapt them from another languages. Will we end up in some random amount of time all of us practicing the same martial art or fighting style? Will we end up speaking the same language? I do not think so, there will always be variations, variants, different approaches, different forms, and so on.

[@warrickdawes7900]

I think it was Patrick McCarthy who said that "all martial arts are just biomechanics".

[@dipzno1]

If I understood you correctly there is ‘karate’ which is essentialised to a specific form with a neat beginning and an ending and then theres karate as a philosophy which is much more encompassing. Taking this to an extreme karate is as much kung fu as is kung fu to karate. Problem is people like things fitting neatly into a box: it’s easier to understand and identify and more importantly allows one to identify with it.

[@simonspencer2610]

Bit late to comment but agree completely..karste means empty hand...if your hands are empty then....

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

thanks Iain

[@jomess7879]

I get eye rolls and it's a bit tongue in cheek, but if I do something and people say that it isn't karate I say, if I do it then it is karate

[@practicalkatabunkai]

“It is the way I do it” is my similar go to answer.

[@tntrailrider7379]

I absolutely agree!

[@DanielSmith-ur1yr]

Though I love that Karate is diverse in techniques and styles ranging from striking through to grappling and everything in-between, I do believe the diversity in discipline has caused somewhat of a problem and fuelled the very problem discussed in the video. Kyokushin for example, people recognise its name and know what they will be getting from the class. But almost every other "style" or club, is much less obvious. Shotokan for example is highly associated with WKF points based competition but there are a lot of clubs that train more in line with principles before the arrival of points based competition. Though I accept different karate can look totally unrelated, I think rebranding is very much needed so that those looking for new schools be that beginners or advanced practitioners just needing a new school, knows exactly what is on offer from each club.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

A friend once said to me that the term “karate” was now like “athletics” in that it convers a lot of different and distinct disciplines. Marathon runners and shot-putters both compete in athletics, but they are entirely different activities. These days I see lots of people adding prefixes and suffixes to “karate” to better clarify what it is that is being done i.e. points karate, full contact karate, practical karate, etc.

[@DanielSmith-ur1yr]

@@practicalkatabunkai Yes, I can see the analogy, my concern was regarding the difficulties of finding a club to join as many aren't clear in expressing its focus to the public until you walk through the door however, your reply has put this to bed and it seems many are giving greater focus to this than I have been able to observe myself. :) Many thanks for your reply.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@DanielSmith-ur1yr You are right that is a problem. The prefixes tend to be use by those who see the problem and are seeking to address it. “Karate” as a standalone term is not often accurate enough these days. This is exacerbated by people who are engaged in one specific sub-set of karate and don’t realise the specialities and limitations of that sub-set.

[@DanielSmith-ur1yr]

@@practicalkatabunkai Yes, I agree. I think right now, we are bridging the gap into the next stage of Karate and martial arts. A Lot of information we have now, was not as accessible prior to the internet but the awesome work done by karateka's like yourself is reaching the broader karate/martial art community via social media, forum debate and digitising old text, highlighting many myths and misconceptions that some may be hesitant to accept if they have devoted many years to a certain idea. I think the rise of MMA and the UFC has also played a role here. Commercially the art must stay relevant to survive thus the Karate Combat leagues inception. If this progression continues, I believe the issues we've discussed above will eventually become a thing of the past due to a broader understanding of history and function. :)

[@stuartperry-hughes5969]

I’ve suspected for years now that karate and its parent styles of gongfu were created alongside a parallel folk wrestling practice, and that older kata presume you’re already grappling and don’t need this explaining :-) Pretty sure all the old masters would be all for evolving technique and styles, and just hid access to training for fear of a heavy handed imperial administration thinking they were some kind of paramilitary and slicing their heads off!

[@stuartperry-hughes5969]

Speaking of which Iain, when are you going to level up and learn shuai jiao or get your judo/BJJ black belts? 😉 Or relocate to Wigan and become a karate catch wrestler hybrid monster?

[@roloduarte3100]

Awesome video, I totally agree with you.

[@ralfhtg1056]

I say: each to their own. But there is a huge caveat. When people who have no idea about the wholistic approach of classic Karate have an image of Karate in their minds that is only modern day tournament style. I am having a huge issue with this. I want people to know how multifacetted Karate actually is. I want people to stop that BS "That is not Karate, that is Judo/Aikido/etc." I want people to be able to see "Oh, there is another wannabe from McDojo XYZ". I want people outside of Karate to not autimatically link me up with this tournament style (which I despise) by default! I want people to ask "What kind of Karate do you practise? The tournament style or the real deal?"

[@EltonGoslettGuitar]

"What is karate?" is like asking "What is Jazz?"

[@practicalkatabunkai]

That’s a good analogy seeing as how all forms of Jazz have common routes, but it has no firm boundaries and has drawn from other musical influences as it come into contact with to produce differing “styles”.

[@P0werCore]

Great Video 👍 every time I listen to you it’s seems like I’m listening to Tyson Fury 😊

[@austinwiebe2648]

I have a question for Mr. Abernathy. Would you consider Taekwondo to be a form of karate?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Some people do use the label “Korean Karate” when referring to TKD. TKD also has its roots in karate (although that historically indisputable fact seems to upset some). However, a lot of modern TKD use forms that are new and not variants on the karate kata. The motions are generally common, but the structure of the forms are different. I think it would be easier for people to label TSD as a form of karate (if they wanted) because of the common kata / forms. However, if TSD people thought of their art as a form of karate, I could understand why. Just as I could understand why some would not. Basically, as a karateka who is aware how high passions can run on this issue in the TKD world, I am going to keep my nose out :-)

[@austinwiebe2648]

@@practicalkatabunkai the reason I ask is because as you mentioned, the individual movements of tkd are very similar to karate, does that mean that the bunkai for those individual movements would be the same? Unfortunately there is surprisingly little literature on the self defence application of poomsae ( tkd kata) however if the stance is the same, the strike is the same, and the movement is the same, it would stand to reason that the bunkai of the individual movements would be the same. Cat stance, cross block, and so on show up in both karate and tkd, if it’s the same than it should do the same thing. At least in my opinion, another example would be the hikite, it does the same thing in both Martial arts Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my question sir

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@austinwiebe2648 While a given movement may be the same, the context can vary. We need to look at what came before and after i.e. how did we get into that position, and what do we do after it. As a karateka, I have not really looked at modern TKD forms, but I know people who have analysed them; including their connection to the karate kata. Two friends of mine have some great material on this topic and they intended to start publicly sharing soon. Watch this space :-)

[@leninecarvalho1096]

Oss!! o estilo de Karate que eu estou aprender tem muitas técnicas de arremessos tal como o judo ( Karate jyoshinmon Hoshu ikeda)

[@TetaroSeth]

Amen Iain.

[@adamcaswell1924]

Whenever I get a comment like that, “That’s Kung Fu!” I just say, “Yep, sure is.”

[@Trampus1973]

Spot on as always 🥋👊👊👍🏻

[@mikelim7939]

Could not agree more. 👍

[@richardmartin3627]

I think you are Karate dude I've been training in Karate for 30 years and I live your perspective.

[@setremnevets]

At the end of the day, the human body is the human body, and physics is physics, regardless of who is studying different arts.

[@Zz7722zZ]

Watching this video, I can't help but ask: What makes Karate 'Karate'? This is a very pertinent question for many traditional Martial Arts; if practitioners are free to incorporate techniques and approaches from other arts, we are faced with the Ship of Theseus problem. If the Karate practiced a few generations apart are so different, does the mere fact that there is an unbroken lineage make it the same art?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

For me, it comes down to being able to trace the historical origins of what we do to the Okinawans who first labelled what they did “karate”. It has changed every generation, but the label has been consistent. It’s a little like surnames: I am not my dad or my grandfather, but we come from the same line and that makes us “Abernethys”.

[@ernestbrennecke3660]

@@practicalkatabunkai Absolutely agree. (Trained in Tokyo, 1965 until retiring 10 years ago.

[@crackdog45]

Funakoshi "created" a style of karate that was just kicks and punches whose purpose was character development. Original, Okinawan karate (think Motobu Choki) was designed as a complete system with strikes, grappling, throws, etc for the primary purpose of fighting/self defense.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

To be fair to Funakoshi, he was clear that karate had both “hard” (i.e. striking) and “soft methods” (i.e. grappling) and that “this gives the art a beautiful texture”. He shows a number of throws in this writing too. Conversely, Egami - a student of Funakoshi - wrote after Funakoshi’s death that, “throwing techniques were practised in my day and I strongly recommend we reconsider them”. It therefore seems that it was the generation after Funakoshi that neglected the grappling side; probably because of the growing influence of the competitive format. The same thing has happened in other styles too so it’s not just a Shotokan issue. Even within styles, we see a lot of variation in what is practised with some practising in a more traditional / holistic way and others specialising in a given aspect i.e. sport, art, etc. I’m with you, and Funakoshi and Egami, in that the throws should be part of it. Other takes on karate are available :-)

[@stevebrindle1724]

You teach how to use your body to defend yourself. If that is not Karate then what is it? Keep up the good work Sensei!

[@yuriivanov8751]

great video.

[@insidiousmaximus]

mummy the big karate man is shouting at me again

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Love it! :-D

[@gw1357]

People look at national borders on a map and think of them as hard barriers. (Part of that is because the narrative of the cultural isolation of Japan and later post-WWII China is played up.) In the real human world, there was a tremendous amount of cultural interchange in the South China Sea region with trade and immigration routes moving between southern China and the outlying satellites in that economic system -- the Philippines, Indonesia, Okinawa, etc. Compare it to boxing -- there are distinctive styles of boxing from New York, Detroit, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, etc. And they follow the socio-economic patterns that come from Irish immigration in the 1800s, Black movement to northern cities post-emancipation, Jewish and Italian immigration in the early 1900s, and Mexican immigration later. Kung Fu has a similarly complex history. So does wrestling. So do European martial arts. etc etc etc. Martial arts are a part of the swirl of human history -- it doesn't exist in a bubble just because you have a sign on your school that says one thing.

[@zaryet]

Karate is a continues learning adapting to different that's karate

[@rakumm]

Karate is only a word. And even this changed over the time. Is Karate a japanese thing? Not really. It was named in Okinawa during development of Karate when Ryukyu was a Kingdom (under influence of Japan, but also of China etc.). Only the word "Karate - Empty Hand" is japanese, but the Art itself is something what is universal even if there is no word for it. So what is Karate really? It's all about our habits we bring with us when we start training and what will be changed over the time of our training. The result is an art which first helps to make our mind and body strong and it can help to handle conflicts and maybe to survive a fight. And if we never has to fight in our life it helps to keep us healthy in our older ages (if we exercise correctly).

[@Sowie-sm6xk]

If you look to the old ways of defense they included throws, punches and kicks and if you study correctly you will see these technqiues. These technqiues have been watered down to todays systems.

[@onlyhuman7420]

Karate is ancient MMA.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

It’s certainly a martial art that has its origins in a mix of other martial arts. Personally, I don’t like using “MMA” to describe that though because, although it can be argued karate is A “mixed martial art”, it is not THE MMA because term MMA is most widely used to refer to the modern sporting format. It has a given specific meaning and it would not be accurate to say the early karateka were practising something similar to modern MMA. Both are holistic and will take anything that proves useful, but the goals and objectives are different.

[@sebastiandavid2546]

If karate keeps adding techniques and methods from other disciplines, when does it stop being "karate"? So the question is - how do you define what karate is and what it is not? Because if it's ultimately just the art of fighting, then it's the practice of MMA & RBSD that hasn't caught up. I would argue that that's what the masters of Okinawa set out to practice and evolve: the best fighting techniques and methods at their disposal, not a set of styles with a distinct umbrella term. They learned Chinese boxing /唐手(Chinese fighting methods) as that was the superpower during that era, and later it was renamed empty boxing/hand 空手 to market it to mainland Japan. Ultimately, they weren't initially out to create a style, but a comprehensive way of fighting. Later, they realized how they had to position and differentiate it as a non-China related, striking art to cover the demand for that as it was lacking on mainland Japan.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Defining “karate” can be tricky. There were systems that in the past that were amalgamated and adapted into what was given the label “karate”. The disparate modern methods that have their roots in that approach also go by the label “karate”. However, karate has never remained static and continues to evolve and adapt. These days it is common to use qualifiers to more narrowly define what kind of karate is being done i.e. practical karate, sport karate, full-contact karate, etc. They are all “karate” because they stem from what was labelled as “karate” originally. I’m not my dad or my grandfather, but we share the same surname because of a common lineage. The term “karate” seems to work in a similar way. Because the vast majority of what I practice and teach draws from the methodology labelled as “karate”, it continues to be a fitting an accurate name for what I do. Future generations will decide if what they are doing still can be called “karate” or not.

[@bryanskrantz]

Those that say "this isn't Karate" do not understand what Karate actually is. My Shihan was a student of Mas Oyama sensei but does a mix of everything. is that Karate? YES!

[@VanishingNomad]

The round kick is not part of old school Kung Fu either.

[@jeremiahagnew5260]

Not enough people have read the Bubishi, or done their research into.the Ryukyu Kingdom. It was a melting pot of Asian culture for a long time.

[@makenjikarate]

Karate is honestly so widespread and varied that you can't nail it out its practice down to a certain idea........... Although some ideas are better than others 😂😂😂

[@ernestbrennecke3660]

I'd rather train than talk - although I can appreciate either preaching or conversing

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Me too, but conversations can help all people involved analyse their training and see if it can be improved.

[@ernestbrennecke3660]

@@practicalkatabunkai Should never be a doubt ever that it can always be improved. Morio Higaonna repeatedly told us. Listen (to talk and actions) + Sweat = Learn. Always enjoy your diatribes, for sure. Training w you in Seattle several moons ago was a distinct pleasure as well as viewing your bunkai variations - creatively teaching to think possibilities > floodgates. One of my favs.

[@sorenpx]

One thought: If a word can't be defined, it has no meaning. So what exactly IS karate?

[@practicalkatabunkai]

My definition is the systems that primarily draw their methodologies from that which was labelled as “karate” by prior generations, and which ultimately can be traced back to the combative mythologies of the Okinawan islands. Lots of variations with in that … all of which can legitimately be said to be “karate”.

[@abcddcba8882]

🥋👍

[@michaelbuelow9275]

Nice hat!

[@practicalkatabunkai]

Thank you! The family tartan :-) One way to sport the family colours without subjecting the word to Iain in a kilt!

[@michaelbuelow9275]

@@practicalkatabunkai I did not know that tartans could be so muted.

[@practicalkatabunkai]

@@michaelbuelow9275 Most tartans have an ancient and a modern version. The modern version can use modern dyes and therefore tends to be more vivid. The ancient versions are limited by the dyes of the time. The cap is the ancient Logan tartan, but I have a hoodie and a rash guard in the modern one, which is much brighter. My maternal grandmother was a Logan and hence I was raised knowing all about my Scottish heritage. The fact I was “entitled” to wear the tartan was certainly impressed upon me as a child :-)

[@hi-q2261]

Just want to put this out there "DO NOT START CRYING" I blame Pop culture movies computer games comic books etc, this sense of a wise master a "Mr Miyagi" if you will does not exist it's BULL SH*T it always was.

[@flykyrt81]

The same for Kung Fu and Chinese Martial Arts.