Praying the Gay Away (with Emily Frazelle)

[@TheGrammyJNewton]

Oh my goodness!! I feel like a human bobblehead!! I am 71 years old listening to this, and 95% of this conversation resonates very deeply within me. Thank you for saying out loud what I have inwardly experienced for many years.

[@villanellenova]

"i don't feel the connection but i'm being told that i should" EXACTLY my experience! i had countless interactions with older youth group/college leaders questioning why i wasn't "feeling love for god"; i was told i need to pray more, to read more scripture, etc so i can get past my "spiritual struggles". i was made to feel like something was wrong with me when i was just being true to my real feelings. now i've come to realize that no one gets to tell me how i should feel about things

[@BerniceBernieAustin]

I'm much older than your probable demographic. I came out at 26, before the internet. I was sure I was the ONLY one that felt attracted to girls. Today, due to the amazing, brave & creative women that are providing content supportive of the process of finding one's authentic self, I love the hope your podcasts provide, the representation, the authenticity of you & your guests. Thank you for the willingness to open the conversation that normalizes love, compassion, kindness & acceptance in the process of coming out.

[@Raddiebaddie]

❤❤❤

[@sodejablues]

This is powerful and necessary. I can just imagine so many people nodding along and connecting with these feelings and experiences. Your conversation will give people a much-needed means of letting go of so many negative thoughts and feelings. You both should be proud of this episode.

[@mrc2205]

I’m Australian and we are not a religious country at all really. I was baptised Catholic just after I was born. Because they thought I would not live too long. Still my Mum didn’t believe people should be gay. I just tried to be attracted to boys and kept thinking there was something wrong with me. I did end up meeting a woman when I was in my 20’s, and that changed my life. We are not together now but I knew I could never be attracted to men.

[@linwill1720]

I was not expecting to cry, but her coming out story was so beautiful.

[@gregmeyering8392]

75 yr old male here. Also not expecting to cry, but doing so anyway.😢

[@ZoeyPaigeLunaPhD]

@@gregmeyering8392awww you’re so sweet ❤

[@cmfountain4324]

Thank you both for this episode. I grew up in church in GA and really related to this. I tried to pray the gay away countless times. It's important for others to know there's hope on the other side of these kinds of struggles. Bless you both❤❤

[@leahpinault1617]

just sobbing my way through this video

[@theysay04]

Grew up in a Christian family in a very Christian town/state, this is very relatable except for the parents part. My parents are very homophobic. I had internalised homophobia for a long time because i was raised religious. I'm still not in a good place, but at least now i can feel a little hopeful through these people who share their story. And also, I still believe in God but I'm done with churches.

[@camimedina3437]

I also remember Shannon's video saying that you needed to tell yourself you're gay in the mirror as an exercise to admiting it to yourself first. And i lividly remember doing it at my grandma's house at 14yo. It's incredible how Shannon has shaped and helped so many lifes across the world.

[@gaylat]

When Mal said that when she walks into a church she “doesn’t feel god”, I felt that, because that has always been me. I tried to find that “feeling” growing up, but just never did. The music got me when I was younger and some songs still can, but I think that’s because I feel things with certain songs and the songs that still get me aren’t pushing religion down my throat the whole song.

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

There’s an interesting documentary on discovery+ called hillsong a megachurch exposed that talks ALOT about the music and how the songs are built to make you feel a certain way and draw you in!! You may enjoy it. also- thank you for listening 🥹

[@gaylat]

@@MadeItOutPodcast thanks! I will have to check it out. You’re welcome! I can’t wait to see what other topics will be discussed and other guests you have on the show.

[@editsbybee7337]

Yes the song this is so real it would be so emotional and once the music stopped, reality came back.

[@stuff1784]

Aww I love this girl! She’s a tomboy and blonde and grew up Christian. She’s exactly my type! I have sooo much religious trauma too.

[@ciobalina7445]

She's not really a tomboy, she's just dressed in sporty clothes. She looks pretty feminine to me because of how she presents and her manierisms.

[@CordersGallaxy]

Am from a country where being gay is a crime and you could go to prison for it.Am glad now for what the LGBTQ movement has done that I know for sure my sexuality doesn’t need any approval from any authority or anyone for that matter and tho I still can’t come out because there is no one to come out to here, am just waiting to get out of the country and this podcast is so good and comforting and just entertaining am all for every episode that will ever come out❤️

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

I am so glad we could bring you some comfort. Thank you so much for listening, and for reaching out❤

[@cantstopme1101]

Over 50 years ago, it was dangerous to be out in America too. I thought I was all alone. Whenever I had a lonely thought, I say stop to myself. I just went about being overtly loving to everyone. I had a close friend that I did everything with. One day she said something that tickled me and without thinking I kissed her on the cheek. Startled by what I had done, I immediately looked into her eyes, she was looking back and gaving me a crooked smile and that was it for me. I was never alone again. If you are loving, love will find you.

[@LavieNK]

It's a crime to be gay in my country too so I'm resigned to being in the closet for the foreseeable future. I have a great job and earn good money so I don't want to leave.

[@jjde8424]

Mal, thank you for taking the time to do these podcasts. Your laugh is infectious, and your sensitivity is palpable. All your guests bring something amazing to the discussion. I sure wish I had this 20 years ago. You are helping so many people. Well done you gals rock.

[@AlbertHess-xy7ky]

You should be in prison for your embrace of the anus.

[@dancingbetweenus]

Mal~ I discovered your podcast today and have already watched 3 of them. Being early 30s, growing up at church and basically knew that I liked girls since I was in elementary school - I cannot relate more to all of these amazing guests you have invited. I'm still a big believer and being super involved in church while never really officially outed. I'm happy as I am but at the same time I've also experienced those awkward feelings of not fitting in basically all my life and finding it difficult being christian and gay, so really thank you that you have created this. Please never stop. ✨

[@pridetherapy]

I'm so happy to find your channel. I just did a recap of the Jubilee episode of Gay Vs Ex-Gay. I'm so glad I made it out of Evangelical Christianity and now have a wife and 4 kids!

[@linwill1720]

Oh shit, the algorithm also fed me this after watching that!

[@JulesLern]

Thank you for the representation!!🔥❤ So many people need to hear these words and deconstruct the convoluted narrative they grew up with!!

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

thank you for listening ❤️🌈

[@loimieforsman2305]

Another inspiring and relatable episode ❤️. I met my ex girlfriend at the convent, on process to become a nun. Long story 😊 The first person I came out with was my NUN friend. She was the superior in the community. And still a friend until now. She came from Peru but lived in Philippines for 13/14 years before going back home to Peru. During that time I felt so bad because as what the society thought of gays… and felt immoral. But, what matters most to me is I believed in God…❤️ This is the best representation I have ever listened. 👏👏👏❤️ I wanna hear more. No pressure by the way 😊 Emily Frazell 🙌

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing- and for listening🌈❤️ Emily is amazing, we hope to have her back!

[@Raddiebaddie]

I would read this book!!

[@loimieforsman2305]

@@Raddiebaddie❤

[@dezzyj_]

This was by far my favorite video and it allowed me to just find comfort in being a lesbian but also being someone who believes and to not have shame in those things

[@elissajo3671]

I love this so much!! Mal you are such an amazing interviewer, you are an illuminator when it comes to seeing people. Can't wait to see what future episodes hold.

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

omg-tears 🥹 thank you so much. we can’t wait to bring you more!

[@HighwaytoHobbs]

I have never related to a story more than Emily’s. So glad she felt comfortable sharing it. What a great podcast!

[@salembookworm]

I grew up being a Cradle Catholic and I had suspicion being queer from High School. But I only started to accept it this year I'm 36). Also because I have been reconnected with my Catholic Faith during the Pandemic and I was like a super conservative Catholic back then. So unlearning all these teachings has been super hard and still is.

[@runahhogarth4770]

my new favourite podcast, so healing to listen to!

[@andreeaadn]

I've been checking the resources Emily mentioned and they do play a game of perspective on you. Only scratched the surface. A letter to Louise God and the Gay Christian Thank you for the podcast. It helps a lot.

[@telgato711]

Facinating discussion. I am blown away at how centered you two are about your coming out stories.

[@shoeshoe8925]

Your laughing is my favourite thing. Great laugh. Very contagious. I’m obsessed with all your guests and their stories.

[@NanceN_12]

I truly enjoyed this conversation. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

[@geaux_rg4]

Thank you sm for this podcast episodes! Coming out at 25 after my mom passed away was so hard but the hardest thing is my sister not accepting “my choice” because of her religious beliefs. 8 years later, we’re still rebuilding our relationship with the understanding that we love each other but have different views in life.

[@mrioskdh8364_]

same my twin sister told me i love you but i’ll never think this is good or right and i’ll never support it

[@lisatraav]

Love this! Such a touching story! Lots of Love from a Swedish listener.

[@someonesomehow379]

omg the religion part SO TRUE! I do believe that many religions to their core are of peace and love but people’s interpretations blow things out of proportion.. I’ve watched this more than once and I’m so thankful that u guys did this.. also MAL!! u are such an amazing interviewer!! keep going edit: ik that many people have been hurt in the name of religion or “because of religious belief systems” and I hate that! and I’m so sorry to everyone who’s been hurt by it (I WAS HURT BY IT)

[@saeyyy]

Sorry, am I actually Emily Frazelle?? It's wild how similar my experience is, but up in Canada. Like, EVERYTHING she said except I didn't go to college and kissed the one guy at 23 not 21. I think the biggest hurdle is that the church not only doesn't allow you to accept and embrace reality about your sexuality, it punishes you for taking any steps towards that. It has been a big process for me to (separate from the church) firstly realize I like myself as myself, gay and all, and then to slowly realize God also likes me as myself, gay and all. Still currently working through how to live with how awful the church has been to block me (and so many people) from arriving at those two ESSENTIAL realizations, but what I love about God is that he actually follows through on that value for people that those camp counsellors back in the day said they stood for. He both embraces us and doesn't deny reality. Religion is so difficult, and because the God I know is so different from the God taught about in churches today, it feels very lonely-particularly in the LGBT community where so many of us have religious trauma and completely swore religion off and resent people who hold onto it. I am crazy lucky with my partner of 8 years (a woman!) who is also Christian but it usually just feels like it's the two of us against the world (which is absolutely not true, it just feels that way). But I would just say to anyone who is also working through this that, in my experience, God is worth it. Like, getting past the garbage people teach and live is so difficult, but He is the most kind and the most just, and if you want Him don't let anyone stop you from having Him.

[@chantal6442]

Loved how real this conversation was. Thank you for sharing ❤

[@tomdg13]

49:30 Thankyou!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know a bit of Greek and had picked that up from one of the verses in the New Testament - arsenokoites, arsenos specifically being a youth - but I know no Hebrew and somehow had not realised the same was the case of that verse in the OT.

[@tomdg13]

And it also highlights the wider dangers in a worldview that tries to erase the concept of power dynamics (now, who would benefit from that, I wonder?)

[@namasteanam2024]

God and the Gay Christian was really good. Matthew Vines and his dad (who was a pastor) did the research on it when he came out. I met him when he spoke at our church because he is from Kansas too. So glad you shared that resource! Thank you for this. Btw, I was part of Exodus International for a long minute. Biggest regret of my life.

[@Raddiebaddie]

That book was so thorough! And there’s a new documentary “1946”

[@namasteanam2024]

@@Raddiebaddie are you a #baddie who is an #Earper by chance too? Anyway, I have been wanting to see the film!!

[@felicitas5091]

Emily your story is so relatable! Thank you so much for sharing

[@Ditzn]

I really loved this episode, thank you! I identified with everything Emily shared..similar upbringing in church life, youth groups and the same struggles internally. Thanks you, Emily!🎉

[@Raddiebaddie]

49:06 bless this man, there are many like him although not enough. So glad you had this experience of someone who actuallt understnds

[@aulestiastudio]

Beautiful interview. You always have very intelligent people as guest. They are so smart and well educated. Today, I almost cry! 😢

[@aulestiastudio]

I have a grand niece who went against the Mormon Church and married her partner. Eventually, her Mormon family accepted

[@nataliamuzyka2241]

Thank you so much for this💖💖. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate this episode and your channel! The best thing I found on accident this week!

[@shashijain5084]

Both are absolute stunners ☀️☀️⭐✨🌟🥇💯

[@amandaleo7569]

keep posting more episodes!! I've loved all the guests you've had so far, and I always relate to their experiences which is so healing for me, thank you for posting such great content!

[@Hoptailful]

35:30 - just casually healing wounds out here. THIS is why sharing our stories is so important.

[@eshevlyakova]

this is a gorgeous episode, looking forward for next week

[@aburger1557]

Thank-you so much. I've never related to someone's story as much as this. This is basically my life's story. Only difference is I've moved back home. And as of last year it became illegal to be in a homosexual relationship or even talk outwardly about it. And honestly I've been struggling because I was at the point of coming out towards my community and because of the new laws. I would physically be putting myself in danger. So Just thank-you so much. This podcast couldn't have come at a better time in my life. ❤❤❤ (For context I live in Namibia, which is in Africa.)

[@lataliapaez]

This episode hit me so hard! Grew up in the church and very religious family. I’m glad your guys parents were so awesome! I had an absolutely horrible experience coming out to my family and for 10 years after. I knew I liked girls in kindergarten. I repressed it for so long. And damn the dreams is where it was at and AIM 🤣🤣🤣 I always went to chats on AOL and Yahoo to talk to girls. I was gay online before I was in real life. Came out at 21 to myself permanently and out to my friends at 22.

[@parmisvazifeh140]

Each episodes heals a part of me I didn't know it was shattered

[@helenlawson8426]

Love this episode Emily and really enjoying the podcast as whole. Thank you x I'm in England so I love hearing about life away from home. Other peoples lives with their similarities & individualities. Like many here in the UK my life was not very religious, it's all around but never overbearing like it sounds like it is in America. My Dad was atheist & Mum only slightly religious so I think that helped me & my siblings going down a religious route. It does though still do it's bit to make some LGBTQ+ peoples lives miserable. A trans friend of mine tried so hard to keep her local church friends & community, pray away her need to transition. The Priest was key in this. For many years that worked, until that is she moved here to Portsmouth as part of a change in job. Now hundreds of miles from her past she decided she could transition. I'd like to say it was easy, I tried to help but not being religious I didn't understand the war going on in her head. She finally transitioned and it was a positive moment in what had been a tough life, the damage of trying to keep her religion though has scarred her mind for ever. Watching podcasts like these plus American atheist ones I'm finally understanding just how early & deep religions get their claws into us. As much as it breaks my heart I see change and I hope. I was born in 1967 the year that being gay was no longer an offence that could see you imprisoned or injected with drugs to get you straight or Cis. Although the last decade has seen major steps backwards, especially for those of us trans, what I still see is progress in the right direction.

[@rNeyshabur]

This podcast is so valuable !!! I really needed to listen to this episode.

[@k.mccraw4416]

“For the Bible Told Me So” is an awesome documentary that really helped me. They talk about the actual Hebrew translation of Bible verses. Also, the book, Solus Jesus by Emily Swan and Ken Wilson is great.

[@adrienne6880]

I definitely needed this one. Thank you

[@CordersGallaxy]

Wow her parents are the best and beautiful 🥹❤️

[@chickpeanoodleho]

I cried a lot with this one. ❤

[@wendella6920]

Many in the southern Bible belt go thru this as well as in other religous communities in the USA. Its hard enough being lbgtq+ in general. Im Im 57, so happy there are programs like this today. Believe me things things have improved. Keep on seeking change!❤

[@dapynkharmujai]

35:35 my tears of joy are coming out🥲 39:50 is deep❤ 49:10 - 50:20 I would say this is Hope Never listen to LGBTQ podcast but this is the good one and inspiring story of different People and I'm fallin in love with this Channel No pressure but we want more and Thankyou once again. Big love ❤

[@chrisz8954]

Being a Dad of 4 girls aside.....You Had me in tears at Post-It notes....

[@orangexmm]

love this interview. So related to though grow up in totally different background. Never expect young girls in US will surfer internally that much.

[@orangexmm]

I always dont get all the religions why they all put so much attention on who people can have romantic feelings to, how people make love, and who people wanna hug each night. Two people in same sex can also be loyal gentle and kind respectful. Why people get regected just becoz the person they love is not a man or woman. Maybe budda is more forgiving and open in the sense? Not sure

[@Bestbeachesincalifornia]

This podcast is sooooo good!!!!!! Thank you for the amazing content

[@portialyons6096]

I can relate to this sooooo much! All the way down to the youth group in college and having a small group. This was so very close to my story so it's really nice to hear something similar and know that it's more common than I expected. I am also from the Houston texas area but I came to texas state!

[@joe_now_here_]

A guy asked me How do you know you're gay if you haven't dated a guy? The room went quiet and everyone was all ears. I said How you do you know you're straight and not into guys? I mean imagine him (another guy in the room) naked with all the hairs and muscles and he is going to kiss you and touch you .. his face went in all contortions and he looked disgusted. Nobody asked me that question again.

[@oliviahawkes4828]

That is hardd what you have had to deal with, that's traumatizing. That's brave to speak out ❤ I'm so happy you joined us out x

[@SamandEm]

Only 6 minutes in but we relate so much! Here’s to enjoying our queer life after being in the church 🫣

[@dinsche1478]

Such a great Channel, so deep and honest and im sure there are many souls they can relate on this. It helps me a lot to hear very similar feelings and Situations and thoughts. Thank you so much! Cant wait for the next Interview. Great,great, great

[@thisisoph983]

I really love your podcast. I feel very connected and seen and I think I've never had this feeling with any other podcast yet. Also the variety of people and topics are so interesting and definitly make me sign up. Really looking forward to the next episodes😍 greetings from Germany!

[@MadeItOutPodcast]

This makes us so happy to read!

[@lyssa7050]

28:35 I used to leave every extended-family gathering feeling so sad because I’d be thinking this :(

[@goozy101]

Still listening but my eyes are literally BURNING hearing the part of you coming out to your mom omg 😭😭😭😭

[@alisamarotta2352]

Just going back to your beginning and Shannon's and came across this. This is so great and I went thru similar and I am mid 50s. Honestly u guys are so good at this you should put out a book out or audible. Esp for parents and family/chosen or not who do not accept.

[@alisamarotta2352]

Also very Catholic family/friends. Lots of yrs of losing people and setting strong boundaries

[@kellyjameson1920]

When people you love tell you and show you that this thing is so important and put all good words and rewards around it, that makes it super easy to become a chameleon and play along. I’m thankful my mom gave me the choice after catechism to go to church or not and I never went back - to me everything about church was ik.

[@dril.2873]

Thank you for this episode! I had never heard of the Dear Loius letter and love it!

[@stuff1784]

My parents still aren’t okay with me being gay, sadly.

[@KeytarKris]

I’m an Exvangelical worship pastor and so happy I’m also an out gay male. I’m so happy I deconstructed from my faith. Never been happier to leave a religion that would make me feel less than in order to control me.

[@karelinneperalta]

woow i loved this ep! thanks for sharing bc this really helps

[@dianaray3148]

Loved this episode! So relatable, inspiring and funny

[@versebyverse994]

Love this and so relatable

[@sylmanyeki9323]

Thanks for this! Alot of what was said here I resonate with. Im not alone….

[@salaltschul3604]

That line about man not lying with boy is about the Israelites' contact with the Greeks at the time. Man/boy stuff was common and acceptable in their cultural practice, and the Torah is essentially saying at the time, "they can do that, that's their choice...but we don't do that," as a way to protect their culture, religiosity, and way of life to avoid assimilation and the risk of being subsumed by stronger, more dangerous cultures. It's so interesting.

[@LavieNK]

This resonates so much with me.

[@j.c.kuenne3219]

Love your podcast. Just so sad to see all these young lesbians still having all this guilt about their sexuality growing up. So many of their stories I relate to and I am in my 60's!

[@femtag1]

Best episode so far ❤

[@channawilliams8552]

The point about southern culture thinking being gay also means being a pedophile is sad but true. Kudos to you both for discussing the hard stuff 👏🏽

[@user-ey3vq1rs6l]

Love this podcast🥰

[@robinriebsomer4607]

This story reminds me of what it was like in the 60's in a small Indiana town. And then, came college in the 70's. I was in nursing school. During my first psych clinicals, there was a young man receiving ECT who was gay. They were trying to make him straight. This made it harder for me to come to terms with being a lesbian. Finally, I realized that the Jesus I understood would not condemn since he forgave the ones who condemned him to be crucified.

[@squadofone7170]

I’m so happy someone brought up YoungLife phewwww The YoungLife College leaders told us to pray for another leader who confidentially told the lead guy that he was struggling with being gay. He was placed on hold for leading until he was no longer “having homosexual tendencies”…

[@winec00ler]

Yes! I can relate 100%.

[@TPark-rf3lt]

my out loud thoughts about this were "this is what a cult does" 6:05. and then she kept describing..... and i keep saying out loud "THIS IS WHAT A CULT DOES" 😫😫😫

[@alysontackitt7736]

I didn't know that YL was such a hateful organization. I went to YL as a middle/high schooler and didn't experience that, but I also haven't attempted to be a counselor. I researched, and sadly, you aren't alone in that experience. I'm so sorry you were treated that way by them. When I came out my counselor still loved me and YL introduced me to Christianity since I didn't go to church growing up. Because they have had such a positive impact on me it breaks my heart that you and many others experienced this. I hope that they change their ways and that overall more churches become more inclusive. It makes me sad that so many lgbt people are atheists due to the way PEOPLE act in churches and miss out on a relationship with God.

[@sarahelizabeth7638]

I attended a First Baptist church while attending Criswell College. The church used Evangelism Explosion (canned evangelism). I was identifying in het normative. I came out about 5 years ago and changed my name. I phoned them recently to see where they were at with things. I told them my current (legal) name and they looked me up in their system; subsequently calling me by my old name. They told me they would not support me if I returned. There was no attempt to talk and share "God's love" with me. There was no attempt to understand or to listen. They do not follow the example of Jesus.

[@stuff1784]

I’m from Texas too! Houston actually! Okay I’m -low key- very into Emily. 😅😅

[@joegoss30]

It's weird to me that Catholics would participate so heavily in Young Life. When I was Catholic in college, we would never *touch* anything that reeked of evangelical. And this was in Arkansas. (Plus, no one ever accused a Catholic of actually reading the Bible ). 😀

[@Sparky34258]

Actually started full on crying on your mum knowing nothing about being gay. I'm so happy your mum reacted in that way

[@OrlaKen]

Love this so much, makes me want to admit to myself that I’m not bisexual and I should just face it, I’m Gay 😅❤

[@owalshify]

Oh man, the crush on the camp counselor 😂🙋‍♀️

[@sydneyatla2005]

Bloomington is so real 😂😂

[@sammisox]

As someone who also grew up Catholic in Texas, this was a great episode. I related to a lot in this one. Really enjoying this podcast so far! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@sabinaabubekir4543]

Lol, I’m from Azerbaijan. Now people sort of know our country because of Formula 1. Anyway it was kinda nice to hear the name of my country.

[@DolceSuono9]

Funnily enough, I just “wasn’t” gay until I stopped going to church. Asked myself “am I gay?” almost yearly since middle school, but, I was just like, “nahhh, that’s not me!” 😂

[@AlidaNicole-ff7hi]

Thank you For this 🙏🏳️‍🌈

[@LamAnopro_]

50:00 Is there any links to this explanations

[@stuff1784]

I also over-compensated by being perfect.. especially in HS. In college I gave up 😅

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

The whole "love the sin, hate the sinner" is based on faulty logic. Totally illogical. It externalizes how one is built. It equates a state of being with "go with vanilla or chocolate" examples. But your state of being is more aligned with "do you breathe or not breathe" because lungs need to exercise to be healthy. You need companionship to be healthy (good chunk of the time). The LtS, HtS is hating your state of being. Therefore, harming your health.

[@RK-vz3qr]

she's so sweet

[@seanwalsh5717]

I'd rather people "pray the straight away."

[@lolwatisdis3312]

real