Managing a WoW Guild

Big Thanks to Nups and Piroen for their input on this one. Links to the chat here:
KZbin: • Full Podcast w Piroen ...
Soundcloud: / full-guild-discussion-...
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Twitter: @Preachgaming
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[@Paragon_1111]

Instructions not clear enough. Now GM of a social greek guild with aspirations to raid and 2v2's.

[@ihalia]

good luck brother...You're going to need it.

[@ButtTrauma]

Summer is coming. Say goodbye to your guild for a few months.

[@zsfekete5211]

Hope you have your co-GMs who are in relationships.

[@x1xruex1x]

Thank you for this synopsis of Guild Management. I've been a leader in my own guild since 2009 and have gone through a multitude of breaks where people flake out in groups, and then we get a new wave of people. Most recent being during Nighthold. This one feels like the worst of the bunch though, and I've been wanting to find different ways of managing ourselves to make us more appealing and to better fit the community. After listening to your advice, I now know what I'd like to do to get back to our former glory. Thank you.

[@rallemand05]

Been waiting for this video since you mentioned it on stream a few days ago. I was offered a position as officer in my current guild since they know I had experience with it in my old guild. It's 2 completely different guilds tho, the old one being very social Heroic guild to this being a Mythic guild just killing Elisande tonight (yay!). This video definetly got me thinking more about the offer and even inspired me to potentially accepting the offer in hope of being able to improve the guild for the better! This is definetly a very interesting and relevant video that can help everyone!

[@skyrim654]

Dude, thanks for making this. I started up an Artillery clan on another game and lately ive been looking into other people's advice for how to run game groups like this. It seems like some of the principles are really applicable across the board. Even though the things you do in each game is different, there are still rules that are universal. Thanks!

[@MrZombieraider]

Really helpful and i learnt a lot. Especially as i just got picked into the officerteam today. Keep up the great work, love it!

[@modernkennnern]

Haven't played WoW since MoP, but I still watch all of your videos. Love them!

[@boomhauer09]

As a new GM, I thank you for this, Preach. It's good to hear that I'm doing some things right, and to finally see where improvement needs to be made. And like you said, with a good environment, boss kills will come.

[@General12th]

This video doesn't just apply to good guild management. A lot of things in life would be easier if more people understood these principles.

[@TheNooberd]

These are great topics, and they apply to so much more than managing a WOW guild. Some of these, like communication, transparency, trust, etc apply to managing people in general. Preach, you should do a TED talk on leadership, bro.

[@socram3254]

In my guild our goal is to have fun, we clear every raid on heroic and we're really happy with the environment we created, the only problem is that we're playing with the same 12-14 people since the beggining of legion, although we're always recruiting it seems like our guild never grows, and I think that's a dangerous situation

[@helpmeinburning]

Marcos Antonio you dont have ambition and people want that

[@josephbishop6240]

@@helpmeinburning lol

[@SaDySt1K]

Love the style of the video, topics in advance TB style and no bullshit. Good on you Preach/Ghosty

[@DavidC-nu5mp]

When I was an officer in Stark, I ran the Baller's Bordello social raids for the exact reason of building community cohesion and fun in the guild. Was a good way to get people to mix with different groups and build the confidence to communicate. Happy days and fond memories. The raider vs non-raider divide was intimidating for some of the new / social guys and it was helpful in breaking that down and just having a laugh.

[@tardwrangler]

"HEY THE HEALING HAS BEEN REALLY SHIT TONIGHT... Is there something we can do to help? :)"

[@Sathkingttv]

My guild disbanded on 9/10 mythic with good progress on Gul'Dan. The people in my raid team were so special, and I'll never find anyone like them, so I've been demotivated to get that cutting edge. Feelsbadman

[@smokemebaby]

This exact thing happened to me during mythic archimonde. Completely lost all incentive to play the game at that level again.

[@ronibopshop]

My thoughts are with you. Take your time to grieve and then decide if you want to get back it.

[@Sathkingttv]

Thx m8

[@TheKlikRock]

Haven't played wow in months still watching these videos!

[@thepetermullins]

Could've posted this 4 hours earlier, my guild just imploded!!

[@zirak123]

so now you can start you're own with good basis :P

[@thepetermullins]

We have! :D

[@thepetermullins]

Correct!

[@alittlegamer7171]

As a GM myself, loved this!

[@Renekin93]

Thanks for giving me the officer pep talk. I am one of the guys who avoids the confrontation and am afraid of having to deal with negative feedback sometimes in terms of bad habits. Just speaking broadly, we have a "know it all" old guy in our raid that tries to ahve the last word on everything and from my point of view, the only thing that makes me not shout at him is that WoW is the only thing he has left. Dead wife, children moved away, many illnesses etc. but before people like that bomb our raid to pieces I should have that talk no matter how bad I feel afterwards.

[@DruidsoftheBeastShadowsong]

Our druid guild is 12 years old! Huzzah! Guilds are the best thing in Wow, and having fun is that goey stuff keeping people together, when you are stuck on progress or out of new bosses to kill. Being chill, having fun, and have a chillaxed atmosphere really matters a lot... That, and Flex sized raid made it a hell lot easier running a guild

[@5gum140]

Hey Preacher and Ghosty. Love you guys keep up the good work!

[@__Insanity_]

How does it feel to chew you?

[@5gum140]

Its great

[@Draconyne]

Around 5:40 ish - "Core team". That tends to spark problems in a number of guilds. The core team probably formed the guild, or were the earlier members. They get priority (and rightly so they believe) for everything - including their alts over newer members' mains - and the rest of the guild is there to support them and maybe, if they are lucky enough plebieans they may, just may, be allowed to join a raid, until someone from the 'core team' logs on. Now if you're aiming to be a tight progression raiding guild and make that clear, that's actually cool. If you don't...then that's a problem, and it's not one that you (general not Preach specific) can blame the new guild member for. Unwritten rules are not an excuse. "Everyone knows that" is untrue and a poor excuse. Clarity of purpose. It's essential. Oh, and the statemt "we're looking for an environment where everyone has fun" - good luck, Blizzard have been trying to build a game that fulfils that mission statement for over 13 years. That's a nebulous statement that doesn't actually *mean* the same to everyone. RP isn't PVP isn't progression raiding and people don't find all of the things you can do to be the same level of fun. Be more specific about what *type* of fun you're focusing on.

[@dennisplotzke4461]

Our Guild is going through some heavy stuff you mentioned in this Video Preach. Unfortunately when me and about 5-6 raiders approached officers and the GM we got told that there is 1 or 2 people complaining and they dont care how you guys feel. i dunno whats going to happen.

[@Vysmere]

Great formatting.

[@Emsarrev]

Ghost: "I left, fuck that guild" Got sick of the bench mate? OMEGALUL

[@streetpaladin]

Emsarrev yeah

[@dondraper4438]

You taught me something preach. The basic theme behind my guild will be toxic behaviour, A safe haven for drama

[@0092k]

This is not a pertinent commentary for this video, but I would like to thank you for your good work and for making that awesome UI. The only two things I would ask you are: 1) Is there any changes in your UI for 7.2/upcoming 7.2.5? 2) is it possible to make a version for lower resolution screens? I always find myself having to tweak a lot of positions because I don't have a big monitor, and everything ends up looking clumsy.

[@dreadgear9683]

Just to be a captain obvious for a second, Preacher always talks from a mythic guild prospective only. Some aspects that he talked don't generally apply for example in heroic or normal guilds (mostly looking at the class organization of a raid group) In my guild who we clear HC NH we have like 5 druids 3 DH and 3 rogues and have no issue , so while every aspect that preacher has discussed are legit, they are always aimed at the top guilds and that's where the experiecne come from. I'd say that in Heroic of Normal you can play anything and the game is not even that punishing for that matter which is a good thing.

[@itzzdivinity8590]

Even tho i'm watching this almost two years later it has a big amount of helpfull information! Especially for BFA since it isn't that great of an expantion. Thanks for all the information.

[@MrSmkms]

That sad moment... when your guild dies and disbands and 10 minutes after this viideo gets posted... right in the feels...

[@mort6578]

For me, rewarding active people for being active works. also promotes being active

[@kireverkligen9313]

You said IRL meetings is really good and it creates bonds and friends. I found it kinda problematic too, since friends sometimes are to kind to critic eachother OR the friend you want to critisize gets offended cuz now you are "friends". Whats your thought/solutions for that?

[@FangerZero]

I play a different game but I plan to utilize some of these ideas for my current guild. Which you have to fight tooth and nail for even the most casual of players. Sometimes it's a question of do you let everyone in and hope some stick? Or do you make entry rigorous?

[@DeviousJinjo]

This topic is not discussed anywhere near enough.

[@styxzero1675]

I like in legion you can pretty much as a guild raid only heroic every week and get pretty darn good items if it warforge/titanforge made finding a "decent" guild way easyer than in prev expansions and everyone has no further ambitions than to make that weekly heroic run... collect them purps then off until next week. Legion in my opinion very casual friendly and nice expansion so far for average guilds!

[@badassoverlordzetta]

Conclusion Piroen is actually a god. Advice for any people working on building up community in their guild, go to blizzcon together, it's awesome.

[@MrSenserus]

As a PVP player who never raided. This video is eye opening to a world of guild politics I had no idea occurred.

[@PhaseLotA]

I heard: "Where you get to meet up with the guys who lag on a regular basis" - yep. Yep...

[@darekkinasz8933]

wise appreach by listening you I start to be hungry again to play☺

[@Direwoof]

I currently have a problem with my guild they are only 5/10H. I am looking for a casual guild that is not shit (I know strange). I have a busy schedule and need a guild to be flexible with me and I can't come to every raid so casual guilds it is. But it seems like people in casual guilds just don't give a shit about gearing and don't give a shit about learning mechanics they just show up to raid and ram their head into a brick wall for 3 hours. When I do play the game I actually try and I am good at the game but this just bothers me. Should I find a new guild or stick with it? Don't hate anyone in the guild just don't understand their lack of ambition.

[@Bloodthilth]

Is it bad my one of my favorite things in this video is how preach did the challenge appearances?

[@Jonra1]

I think managing a guild may be even slightly more difficult now than it was in the past expansions. It seems a lot of people joining guilds these days see guilds as a sort of a service that the people in charge have to provide for them and keep running smoothly, while they themselves just log on to reap the benefits. This doesn't make a fun experience for those in charge however.

[@horrorkesh]

the guild I was in had a huge divide between raiders and non-raiders the raiders always had groups to go in mythics and such but the non-raiders never knew anything was even happening they were always in their own world, I had to leave that atmosphere.

[@Whackfear]

I've never clicked a video so fast.

[@AsprosOfAzeroth]

This is all very nice but, where is "Legacy of Cataclysm"?

[@ericwolfley9929]

ScarletAntares thats what im saying!

[@koendelaat6999]

10:15 *runs in with broken, red gear* "Don't do that, don't do that" :^)

[@NightstingVideos]

Koen de Laat Morgiana? xD

[@Terrabreak133]

Now teach me what is the most effective way to destroy a guild.

[@billybob2388]

catfish the leader and have him kick random officers that everyone else loves, works every time

[@denis_ds]

He talked about his experience in vanilla/tbc with guilds. Interesting stuff.

[@Azqalihm]

Befriend everyone and be more active/helpful/better than the officers and gm. Jealousy will kick in sooner rather than later, and you can choose to destroy the guild at that point by taking all the active and good people with you.

[@Amoncaco]

Step 1 be a girl

[@tardwrangler]

Have tits

[@gary6631]

I've led a guild of just friends and by extension their friends. Been around since mop and just do AOTC raiding. We all hate the wiping and roster struggles of mythic so heroic is plenty fine and people have left to do mythic and thats okay.

[@EternalSilence1]

Wish this was out at the end if 2016. Guild was doing fine, went through herioc, ... And than all of a sudden, an officier quited and give us a rant. Because they wanted to push even harder. 3 times / week raiding isnt consider 'much raiding'. lol Eventually i stopped with the guild. Thanked everybody and let them go. Many were dissapointed. But being a guildleader, somethimes really sucks out the fun out of a game. (people whispering you, asking for raidspots, people not always have the enchant, ...-

[@Tsukasa4692]

hey preacher, I'd really appreciate your input on this I didn't hear this in the vid but I'll listen to the podcast later. I just joined a guild that's 3/10 m nh. the guild has heroic nh on farm and they brought me along. I just joined the guild like last week. I died on almost every boss. I did do mechanics the best I could but it was the first time I ever stepped into NH. they didn't flame or get mad despite me being in 12-14 on dps chart as I was undergeared. they were real nice and the GM said it was all good and I was doing good for my first time. the thing is that the guild are all close, they know each other by name and some of them hang out irl and that coupled with that they're more experienced than I am intimidates me. I'm usually quiet in voice and I don't talk much in Gchat. I'm not sure how to "integrate" myself into the guild.

[@commandernullex6774]

Did you ever figure it out?

[@Dencalin]

Bad timing - guild just fell apart yesterday D:

[@LikeAbox32]

Landon Paulson FeelsBadMan... Hope you find a new one soon :(

[@EclipseWolfX20]

Landon Paulson It absolutely sucks having a guild fall apart. When I was a kid was in one and made me fall in love with the game even more. a few years passed and it died. This was before b-net so no way of staying in touch with your old guild buds who might have rolled new toons. Hope you get into a great guild that you'll enjoy.

[@icresp4263]

am gm of my guild, we started in legion but most of us had been in guilds together that I lead before. all was good we were heading I to mythic raiding but I had to leave for a month to move houses. when I got back it was dead, now we're just a 10 man heroic guild but it's good fun :D

[@icresp4263]

our problem was we tried too hard to get more good people, and the ones that were already good and geared got sick of farming etc, we moved to raiding 3 days a week which was more than some wanted to do. I think the best thing you can do is not try to be something you aren't. we didn't have the mindset to raid mythic and we tried too hard and it burned people out, when I left it was their queue to leave as well

[@akagi.fd3s]

Ironically you posted this on the night my guild died haha R.I.P.

[@jensjensen1609]

i disagree on linking logs / damage meters for casual stuff. doing m+ and other stuff it can keep stale content fun to compete with a buddy to do dps. where an atmosphere of DONT LIKE METERS MATE, feels toxic when all you wanna do is have fun with a few mates, this makes people created channels for them to do it in and now you creating cliques.

[@SalvLav]

That's why you find a guild where that is accepted

[@PeteMcC11]

I'm considering making a guild, I took a break for a few months and came back to find no one in my current guild has been on in months. Problem is I don't want to do any hardcore raiding or PvP which seems to be where everyone tends to want to lean. My theory is to create a family first guild. Where the focus is on making friends, helping each other and new players. That kind of thing. We will raid eventually, that comes naturally with any group. hard part is keeping the raid groups casual. my example, and worry is what happened to my first guild in wow.(first real one anyway). we were together through BC and wrath. We began raiding weekly during naxx and got fairly good. over 100 active players at the time we had 2 or 3 groups per week. All was well at first. Then toc came along and we just happen to miss server first by about 10 minutes. This got everyone pumped and the problems began. By the time ICC came out we had tunnel vision, we wanted to win, and it divided our guild. We had formed a "core" something we had avoided all along, we started running every night and got burned out and angry at eachother. Long story short, many of us went our ways after years together. Tho most of us reconciled and still talk on Facebook or even meet irl we never got the guild back. So if we did raid I'd look for a way to prevent this outcome.

[@dkmyeire]

All your team are playing their class/spec to the max.. your words. Most guilds have a balance of good players with better players and try balance the fun with progress. It's when those clash the drama erupts

[@judykendrick7737]

good point

[@RagnarokiaNG]

Is there any clear points or signs for when to go against what an individual may want for their selfish fun compared to the guild as a whole? Since obviously stopping people having fun is bad, but currently we have someone refusing to come to raids unless we can "guarantee mythic progress" (we are a heroic focused guild 3/10 mythic which frankly is good for what we are) when they are a core healer spot and who has been increasingly leaving mid raids. Frankly I want to get rid of them now as it is, but obviously that would ruin their fun, but it's fucking selfish fun that is ruining it for others. This is something I have been trying to get sorted but is being tip-toed around currently and I don't want to let it fester any longer but I don't know whether I am in the right to step over the "rather you not do this" line into the "stop doing this now" line.

[@MrSchmuders]

Like with any other bad relationship, dump em. Sounds like they dont want to actively be there, dont force them to be, let them go.

[@SwiftDurka]

well imo, if they want mythic progress and you're a heroic focused guild, it sounds like their goals don't align with yours. i'll bet that either he'll end up leaving or you'll have to kick him. goals have to align, otherwise no one will have fun. it just takes 1 guy to fuck up the groups morale

[@Swaidtube]

Good shit

[@tedsmith6385]

Man i got so salty watching you cheese the arcane artifact challenge with belo virs, made me look like a right twat after i spent an hour running from side to side dodging the axes and solo getting them down by ae and barrage lol Fuck that legos op I need it D:

[@tlahuicolebarrraz7772]

Did you just say, irregardless?

[@Bootchair]

I heard Arnold say "YOU SON OF A BITCH" looking at that thumbnail

[@zeevallin]

That arcane class challenge with broken gear tho.

[@InsanityReborn]

And now here comes the storm of 'hey preach your guild is well run can I join?' in the comments..

[@altrestic]

now to the real question, how to find a guild though?

[@lucky4the4turtle]

Ouch, I never want to count less than a shaven pube.

[@Aiikaz]

Fester, Debby!

[@ericwolfley9929]

Legacy of the priest..... do it.

[@xAngoryx]

Ahh I remember this game

[@freshfindszmo5196]

Andy getting sand blasted haha

[@DuoBanditBTW]

preacher mind looking into the new legendary's

[@horrorkesh]

things you like on facebook come back to haunt you

[@terriblegamers2213]

10:15 went in with broken gear XD. hate it when that happens

[@stuff4812]

there was this guild on emerald dream that overnight was disbanded because of the guild leader just kicked everyone lol it was a huge guild too

[@dondraper4438]

Preacher I need a main tank spot, also I need free pots/food, and you need to accomadate for the fact I don't raid.

[@livebythews]

I learned one great thing from this video that I will take with me forever..."cuntybullocks"

[@jeremyhorner9531]

"you count less than a shaven pube" LOLOL

[@fplRob7]

Someone on trial in your guild for 3 months without them knowing is just lazy officers.

[@badassoverlordzetta]

Must say though, only considering people your "real friends" when you meet irl seems narrow minded. People are still people even if they're far apart.

[@Gewsfrahba]

how are you guys not verified yet?

[@MEDOBOLT]

wait exorsus is going casual?

[@fatmamacow8455]

Shit I've been waiting for this

[@mattstagner]

crazy idea your officers need management skills.

[@EdyGlockenspiel]

I am currently on a basically dead server, I would love to raid with a "real" guild but there are not any really on my server that are either any good and or are full of the most toxic assholes you can think of. But it is not just as simple as moving my toon over to a new server because, I have a lot of alts, 10 actually. And I want all of them to be on the same server and I am not going to dump all of my gold to pay for server transfers for them all or dump a few hundred $ for it. I have no real raid experience, have only done it in pugs. What do I do? Am I just fucked?

[@leonvanmierlo2303]

What realm are you on? And ofc, EU or NA? cross realm raiding is something that can be done, though you'd miss out a bit on the guild chat, but still, it is possible to raid with a guild on a different realm.

[@EdyGlockenspiel]

I am on Velonar US. (Velen/Eonar) my server was merged right before WoD but it is still a dead ass server with only really like 3 active guild that do anything and they are all either full of toxic assholes or idiots. Or both. I really want to do something in ToS on my arms warrior when it comes out but the guild I am currently in has never even seen the inside of a raid that was current content. I am just in it because my friend is the GM. And how exactly would I do organized raiding cross server? I know that I can join cross server pugs witch is the extent of my raiding.

[@leonvanmierlo2303]

You could see if a guild on a different server would be okay with you joining them in raids, since creating a party can be done cross-realm. Unfortunately I am on EU, else I would've gladly talked in my guild about giving you the opportunity to raid. :)

[@darktuskasa]

i will never find a late night guild that raids feels bad:)

[@maggimaster]

jonh doe if your us look up ctr

[@darktuskasa]

ctr?

[@maggimaster]

jonh doe convert to raid alliance guild tons of teams ranging from hardcore mythic to casual heroic

[@Sanlandar]

#shavenpubelivesmatter

[@Greatot]

+westisemum69 o shit

[@ZeroSixGunpla]

omg in need to be in your guild

[@Вларрад]

I thought it's "Ruining", not running. Could be much more interesting.

[@baavvb3020]

hey preach you need me to carry you in tomb? MW monk here :)

[@omarcomming722]

Cant understand why someone would undermine their enjoyment in the game by doing something they don't like for the good of the virtual community that might literally fall apart the next day, and often does..

[@frodothehobo9938]

because that's part of being adults on a team. it's like being on a sports team. if you're the goalie or quarterback or whatever and you don't want to play anymore, assuming no injuries you stick it out until the end of the season and leave then.

[@omarcomming722]

Yes but that's ignoring the point of the virtual community. People that do sports tend to be either real life friends or acquaintances which gives a greater "warranty" of them staying together, which then gives more incentive to commit to the detriment of your enjoyment. Also you're not gonna wake up one day and realize you don't like being a quarterback after liking it for 10 years, because quarterbacks don't get nerfed to shit overnight.

[@Julian-cn1ey]

What you're talking about sounds absolutely amazing. I just quit a guild because of a lot of the problems you brought up. I came in as a frost DK in 7.1, when frost was all spam and auto attacks, super fun for me to spam attacks that hit like trucks. I absolutely hate Breath of Syndragosa. In comes 7.1.5, BoS is up a ton over MG frost and unholy. I make comments saying I want to reroll. I play solo up until the gear wall where you need to have a group to get into H nighthold or just grind out M+. Warrior isn't allowed in heroic runs. Nobody to group with for M+, pug world is too unreliable. I end up quitting the game. I come back in 7.2, wanting to raid again. Again, I tell the guild I want to reroll and that the DK just isnt fun. Same problem, no help, nobody online. Warrior still sitting at gear where he's relevant for heroic runs, but not accepted. At this point I just roll unholy. Give 0 fucks about dps. I'd made it well known I hate frost, I'd put in all the effort needed to reroll, and I wasn't matched half way. I wasn't playing a spec I hate and if that meant playing a completely unviable spec, so be it. End up still being brought as unholy because of roster problems. Guild making the decision to bring the worst dps spec in the game instead of bringing an 875 to heroic runs. Honestly it was primarily a bluff. It was a fucking meme at first. I genuinely thought there was no way for them to consider bringing an unholy over carrying a geared alt through farm content. So I found myself despising the guild and my time playing the game, not enjoying myself in or out of raid. There was no community, my voice was entirely unheard, I was a means to an end for the guild's inner circle who want to play together, but don't have a large enough friend group to fill a 20 man roster.

[@justinyoebstl9097]

Lee Thun I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates BoS, it literally makes me despise my beloved Dk

[@xulubtw]

BoS requires actual management of runic power and runes other than just faceroll sperglord spam? MG frost is just a horrible spec that doesn't require any skill.

[@Julian-cn1ey]

It doesnt take skill though. Neither of them do. BoS is a very one directional spec. You aim to keep it up for the duration of your CDs. Keeping breath up only requires hitting Oblit and RW on CD and HB when it procs. Ultimately the breath durarion comes down to RNG, rune, hb, and belt procs. There's no skill involved in keeping breath up on a purely mechanical level, as there is only 3 buttons that really do the same thing whrn interacting with Breath, generating morr RP. Convergance or Ring lets you HRW on every breath to good effect, removing even more skill requirment. With either you dont need to even pool RP before casting. The only thing dificult about it is tunnelling the boss and being unable to react effeciently to mechanics without losing major dps by letting breath drop. BoS is a spec that's mechanically easy, but frustrating to play, as you have little freedom in movement or fight role. The only job a BoS fdk is 'afk sit on boss, let other people do mechanics, cause melee disconnect kills my dps'.

[@Veelara]

I agree that BoS isn't fun but it makes me sad that it ruins frost for people. I'm sticking to Frost scythe and Obliteration and accepting that I won't be in the top 3 in most single target fights. I love my frost DK and won't switch to BoS because then I don't have fun and don't want to play it.

[@Julian-cn1ey]

The core problem with frost is that the 100 talents are pure ass outside of BoS. Glacial Advance is undertuned, and Obliteration has negative synergy with stats. Unholy, for as unviable as it is currently, at least has talent options that can be tuned up and down. I don't see how they can do this with the lvl 100 frost tier.

[@Adam-082]

This expac we had the problem of half the guild was casual and the other half were hard core.So those that were used to just logging on to raid were wayyyy behind because of all the grinding needed with ap and mythic plus.The hardcore side were caught up and being dragged down by those that only logged in to raid.I don't blame the people that could only log in for raid i blame blizzard for making it a job having to keep that artifact weapon growing.past expansions it was no big deal well that lead to everyone always pissed off and we never went farther than heroic in raids.So after about 5 years we are no longer a guild and most of those that were in the guild are in other guilds.Having been in an officer or gm position this xpac was beyond frustrating and i don't ever want to do it again lol

[@NamesAreForNerds]

adam lane right, now its blizzards fault. i actually really like the ap system, it means there is something to do outside of raids. i get that it sucks that your guild fell apart, but after so many years, people change their way of playing wow. people that used to be dedicated get a job, go to college, anything can happen really and then they just dont have the time anymore. its not blizzards fault for actually creating a reason to play the game. it sucks, but it just happens. find a guild of more likeminded players and the ap system will be fun, doing some m+ with guildies is fun man! hope you find a new guild soon :p

[@Adam-082]

It just hurts or destroys to many aspects of the game.Yes it bring more farming to the game.The game didn't need more of that in this area.We already have Resource farming,Gear,rep, all kinds of farming for stuff.Look at the big guilds that have called it quits because of the giant grind that is ap farming.It hurts everyone.allot a people enjoy alts and raiding with them in a alt guild run or having them on a different faction and that is there main as well.Well unless you are able to play 24/7 it is impossible to do.I think the ap system works in the that it makes you have to put more time in to the game it just does it in a tedious way and is to time consuming.I Haven't met anyone in game that has really liked it they just do it because they have to.That is no fun.

[@xeon1224]

Wow

[@GnomesPwns]

So if I'm a 10/10M dk that only wants to see numbers puked at my screen I am a dickhead and toxic. Can get behind that :P K.

[@lucky4the4turtle]

Are you 10/10M?

[@GnomesPwns]

Jimmy yIK yes. Hence me saying I'm 10/10

[@lucky4the4turtle]

Well alrighty.

[@Ashaeron]

In his opinion, yes, that's true. That doesn't mean you don't fit your own guild and clique.

[@Irondude127]

What the fuck is a guild?.........

[@arinovick3899]

you lost me at friends you and a couple friends.....

[@finnersz]

exorsus going casual? since when? :(

[@Aj9Livess]

Finlay Craig clearing mythic NH I think

[@finnersz]

Aj9Livess they said in an interview just after guldan kill they were discussing it. I heard nothing since

[@maxpheby7287]

Dont like the format you guys are running these days like the topics down the side and the screen within a screen makes it look like a power point presentation.

[@JoshDoingLinux]

12th!

[@RichLCarson]

2nd

[@scarr2309]

100th