Preamp or Dac Direct ????

[@rolandgeorges960]

I prefer the DAC, much more clear, detailed, instuments sound real, more dynamic. Wonderful. Congrats on your review.

[@W4YN0T]

Guys here are the timestamps if you want to go back and forth between two takes: Preamp - 5:41 No Preamp - 8:59 Thanks for sharing Jay!

[@tommyfredriksen7122]

I use a preamp myself. But here in this video. I prefer dac direct. It sounds cleaner. And more dynamic. The voice is in the center. The piano sounds like a piano. The preamp takes away details and the voice sounds like it comes from 2different places. The sound also sounds rounder but still harder some places. The sounds in your videos is generally bad quality compered to other KZbin videos. But that's your recording gear. I have the Focal Alto Utopia. The previous of Scala.

[@yewmun5858]

I am planning to shop for a preamp, but after listening to this comparison, I got to think twice. Btw, the non preamp recording sounded similar to my setup, but the recording with preamp seem different from another clip "Ref6se vs Luxman C900u".

[@monopsonynovass3107]

Better with the preamp for me , bigger soundstage, warmer, more liquid top end , it just naturally brings music to me , the walls,speakers all seem to disappear with the preamp. Amazing Amazing Jay ! Thanks again for sharing.

[@jaysaudiolab]

My pleasure

[@tudorm6838]

Same impression, but reversed.

[@RLM-TV]

Wow sound quality doubled in my headphones with no preamp, just blown away, can't wait to try taking my preamp out of my system for direct DAC.

[@klaymoon1]

Wow, that ARC does a magic without much downsides! Direct is more closer to the original but that preamp is so musical.

[@danmarjenka6361]

I hear a distinct improvement in detail, clarity, and air around her voice when the DAC is plugged directly into the amp.

[@danielbabeux5500]

Wow, this becomes really a matter of taste... Pro's with the preamp: - Voice and piano sound more natural when song starts (soft passage). - Probably no listening fatigue during long musical audition. - Greater ambiance retrieval. Con's with preamp: - Voice and piano sound euphonic/colored when music intensity goes up. Pro's DAC direct: - Voice and piano sound identity is constant from start to finish of the track. - Sounds more detailled than with preamp. Con's DAC direct: - System sounds harsher using DAC direct. Piano sounds like a 'toy piano' and female voice has some grain. - Listening fatigue will probably set in sooner during long musical audition. Frankly, this is a very difficult choice because we have good sound on both setups, but also some flaws which I cannot neglect. Personally, I like natural and non-fatiguing sound, since I can listen to music for a few hours in row. I could not live with these 2 system setup for the long run. If I was in Jay's position, I would try a solid state preamp before making any preamp decision.

[@LoiteringReaper]

True, the noise all together w/ direct is harsh and hurts my ear canals. While the preamp elimates the pain in my canals. You'll need to switch between the two quickly w/ timestamps to be able to feel the sudden noise pain. Using Magni Heresy (high gain) and HD 6XX headphones.

[@MasterofPlay7]

So I guess it mellows out the sound?

[@memania-]

Wow! What a difference! Preamp 👍🏻 dac more articulate but a bit thin and empty imo

[@nattaphoomtewarun9978]

I can hear more airy in high frequency give more spacious sound feel on Preamp than DAC DIRECT and emphasis upper bass forward focal just a bit Than no preamp. With No preamp every note more tightness no airly in high frequency. Vocal less tightness. Not fuller in bass. Crisp and crystal clear in high. I prefer with preamp

[@holylighthealing]

I prefer the dac, as it sounds less colored and somehow more stable, firm, and solid than the preamp.

[@johnandterryfenner3311]

I expected to like the Arc better but both presentations are wonderful,just different.Personal preference is the deciding factor

[@JCLADOG]

Unlike the power conditioner results, the pre-amp gave enough of a SQ difference that I would pick it. The issue is your equipment is so strong that small tweaks don't really impact it too much. Either configuration is amazing and would (should) satisfy any music lover i.e. audiophile.

[@ericschultz9925]

Without the preamp gave me chills.......I even screamed

[@moodu1850]

my feelings exactly

[@danielesbordone1871]

I like them both , but direct is a more natural sound.

[@mizujunior2519]

Your there in the room which one do you prefer?

[@stephenmcknight7474]

It's called tube magic. That's what tubes do. It widens and deepens the stage.

[@QQ-td9id]

Tube introduces distortion and harmonics that some people prefer -> that's NOT high Fidelity any more.

[@michaelhorrocks9647]

Yes, without the preamp sounds better through my Spendor speakers. However, the ARC preamp really takes nothing away. I like the idea of having an upgradable DAC with a phono preamplifier as the lesser of two evils. McIntosh sells such devices. If ARC sold an integrated phono with an integrated replaceable DAC, I would buy it. My old SP9 MkIII sounds very good. I use a cheap dongle as a DAC.

[@ericschultz9925]

You can add warmth any number of ways including possibly felting the speaker

[@datka3]

Your Dcs setup sounds marvelous no wonder it’s so good going straight, but I have to add that adding preamp in to the mix adds some sort of aphrodisiac ( tubes done by arc with latest 6se) So happy found your chanel, had focal stelia and went to ML ESL 15 , love new Evos and focal sound in general

[@williamlenon1256]

Without tube pre is nice

[@akeelshah7904]

without the preamp its super clean but it changes the vibes of the music feels like something is missing so i prefer the preamp sound

[@ronkindel383]

I use a Benchmark DAC1 USB direct to my power amp in my system so I am a little jaded in favor of the no preamp solution. That said, to me it’s pretty obvious that I prefer the Audio Research in the chain.

[@klc2578]

oh my the Dac direct just so airy, wider soundstage & better bass.

[@MarkJones-bc5vx]

I prefer the DAC. Everything sounds more together. The preamp sounds slightly edgy in my opinion.

[@juca23076]

DAC + Preamp...? For me sounds great!

[@bin1x625]

Great video! Dac direct for me :)

[@bsbabcock]

Completely subjecting considering the phones I'm using (bad), so that's the big caveat.. But I hear coloration/voicing in the preamp to be expected. DAC by itself appears to be simply straight wire with gain. Dynamics are really hard to discern, as is stage of course. Great experiment.

[@mikewinburn]

whoa... huge difference. As if a leather blanket were lifted off the speakers! However, this is one song with mostly digital instruments. I'd love to hear which would be preferable with a big band playing... w/o the Pre-amp in that case *might* yield a fatiguing experience...

[@ahk8464]

it looks original recording has an eco effect which is almost lost with the preamp. no doubt, direct DAC has superior sound compare to the preamp, but for some reason, pre-amp sounds extremely pleasing.

[@jaysaudiolab]

Follow my channel..you're watching old videos

[@glennelhardt6884]

To me the no preamp sounded a bit more defined but I prefer the sound with the ARC as it had a fuller more enjoyable sound. Individual preferences of course, for me music should be pleasurable not sterile the no pre seem to lack some of the subtle nuances.

[@jaysaudiolab]

It's all about preferences for sure.

[@voltaireesteban7600]

First of all.. i'm envious and congratulations! I am into detailed sound so i wud normally choose dac onstead of tube sound.. BUT with your system with preamp tubes who has all the details still present, i now prefer the preamp. Strictly speaking, the comparison is a bit "unfair" because the preamp brings a musicality of the tubes. Nevertheless in these two comparison my vote is with preamp (because all the details are still there plus the natural musicality). *Drool 😎

[@danshapiro1195]

Jay, I can see why people might prefer the preamp. However, we all listen differently. What I am responding to, without the preamp, is a cleanliness, to the finger attack on the piano, and the immediacy of her voice. There seems to be a greater amount, of natural delay. No question, the preamp is adding a " color ", and robbing some details, that are actually in the recording. This might be due, more, to the additional " gain "of the preamp, the addition of tubes in the signal path, or both. I prefer the dac direct.....This is me, and your point earlier, and stated several times, it is a personal preference, and not a right or wrong....except....for me, the dac to preamp, is my " right ".........A better demo, as the levels were more properly matched. Well done ! Always, MrD.

[@danshapiro1195]

I meant, dac to amp......sorry

[@danshapiro1195]

I also meant, decay. Again, sorry ( I blame the vodka, lol ).

[@tthedon2471]

dac only: more clear, studio like, in-your-face detail. with pre: fuller sound, more holographic, but i you say, you use a tube pre. also, have you considered the impedance matching issue?

[@1dafirst]

I will definitely go with the Preamp. Direct. Dac sound faded.

[@joedinatale5913]

Jay I’m new to dac so I’m learnings as I go. My system is classe amp and pre amp with a set of b&w 802s. I recently purchased a Cambridge m200 which I haven’t received yet. Your presentation was awesome but,to your point it’s one song and there there’s all types of music. To me a direct connection from the dac to the amp would be the better connection. But time will tell. Thanks for your input your system is awesome

[@tokobjork]

100% the Preamp sounds better. With this instruments are presented in a much more interesting way.

[@randomdamian]

DAC only like 5s into the song, you hear the detail when she breaths out while singing it's crazy

[@truths2k05]

Hands down without the Preamp is best, sounds like Freda is in the room. Piano has weight on every key. Love it!

[@pkunz1]

Jay, thanks for posting your videos. Clearly a labor of love. And very thoughtful too, given the HC crisis we're living though. You give us a sense of "normal", which is much appreciated during this tough time. Things will get better!

[@jaysaudiolab]

Thank you for your words!!

[@tannerhuber1603]

The tubes 'round out the sound', with the DAC direct the resolution is sooo high. Leading notes and 's' sounds are hard. It's fatiguing. With a lesser speaker it might be preferable but those beryllium tweeters are capable of extreme resolution. The sound stage is wide open with the DAC straight in. You can definitely hear the room this was recorded in. I feel that the tonality of the piano changed its a lot more natural and punchy, again due to soundstage I am guessing. Here is the thing though.....I prefer the sound with the preamp in the system. Sounds more natural to my ears. There still a ton of resolution, but without the sibilance, the sound stage is more closed down but that's okay IMO. Just my thoughts and preference not the gospel truth. 😉

[@kaytam1]

Pre-amp adds more air, I can hear more of the space, the voice has more layers - this would my preference.

[@moodu1850]

I must be crazy, but I hear a complete opposite..

[@bng2679]

My DCS directly drive my AXO. There is also a noticeable difference between xlr and rca output. I prefer xlr. You should try as well.

[@KT88gs]

Well the pre-amps works for me.The Focals sounds much better now,the cap between Wilson/Focal is now much smaller,cause of the very precise set-up placement speaker?Your system sound very,very good.

[@LoiteringReaper]

With preamp, I noticed that my ears hurt less than with no preamp. In a graph, I see the tops and bottoms as being flatter (smoother) than spiked. Using Magni Heresy (high gain) and HD 6XX headphones.

[@StefanUrkel]

Jay, with no preamp what is best way to control volume? i have 2 dacs, using ipad as source, and dac #1 the music is very loud at lowest volume bar. dac #2 requires ipad volume bar at 25% or so to get similarly loud.

[@borisjelenc1217]

Interestingly similar to my case (dac cambridge 851d) I feel better with a preamp, without acting like something is missing in the music or with a hole in a certain range of music.

[@denis4072]

Direct sound bright the vocal seem to be in your face. I think it's matter of taste of your ear. Both sounded very good but I like prefer sound of direct that just me.

[@uhugvjkbkjh]

Alot is down to digital chip used in dac streamer volume control

[@gage4375]

My dac is my pre amp 😏

[@philschack9937]

The tube to my ear sounds overly colored, clogged up, pretty bad actually. I think it really becomes a test of do you like that particular tube, and I don't.

[@kingelijah79]

No preamp sounds good to me

[@robertprieto8912]

The DCS killed it. Much more musical with noticeably better resolution and clarity hitting top mid and lower ranges in the spectrum scales.

[@jfg1135]

With the preamp, the voice sounds harsh but the piano is clearer. Without the preamp, the voice is clearer but the piano sounds a little muffled. Just my opinion.

[@michaela.5363]

In this video it sounds better with the preamp.

[@datka3]

What a nice components to have at home during this lockdown . Wanted to get your opinion about speakers , I have sold my sopra 2 and upgraded to Martin logan esl 15 , I know you had Neolith , I did like focal and love ML even more , wonder how you would rate Evo compared to ML , I like Dsp function that Ml has to measure and adjust Bass using ARC Also if you have some experience using room measurement software would be cool to see your instructions on how to set it up and adjust it . Thank you

[@mehrdadheydari7842]

Dac is more clear

[@duane7571]

To me the track had a compressed sound without the pre amp. It had better mid bass frequencies and a organic real instrument sound with the preamp. The same for the vocals.

[@testtester3363]

Please get off of youtube and never post again.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

DAC Direct into JLA cr-1 active crossover 😊

[@innomax007]

I prefer the presentation that includes the Ref6 SE.

[@stephenhill2301]

No preamp sounds clean preamp makes muffled but fuller sound down to individual taste plus what kind of music you listen to.

[@2204tenn]

So bright!!

[@oohtob6685]

Grainy sound without the pre amp.

[@mossomstylz]

Without the pre amp it sounds like everything else on the radio, PREAMP!

[@jdiggadydog]

Jay, too soon to make a comment, preamplifier needs more break in time. Right now they are close. DAC has more breakin time than the Audio Research.

[@mohanthakur519]

Preamp sounds better

[@sirsmarty274]

Dac by itself sounds clearer, Thats how i have mine set up. The objective is to get the track to the speakers with as little obstacles in the middle.

[@jaysaudiolab]

I see your point but I must say that MOST people have preferred the preamp in the system.

[@sirsmarty274]

@@jaysaudiolab For me i decided to leave mine that way after examining different track types and sided on clarity rather than coloration. Either set up is a good outcome, just different. Its all about personal preference.

[@divertiti]

The voice sounds more present and 3D with the preamp, however the piano sounds more 3D and real without the preamp. With preamp the piano is too colored and mellow.

[@matiasbondone8454]

sometimes it's interesting to listen without a preamplifier. I love my Benchmark HDR Dac directly to my Amp (sometimes) My skin bristles at hearing the instruments so real. the problem is that fatigue if the listening is long

[@jaysaudiolab]

I agree 200%

[@matiasbondone8454]

@@jaysaudiolab Nowadays I think you can replace a preamplifier with cables. cables increasingly influence sound. My dealer here a person with dozens of years working in expensive audio, the last years is not using preamplifiers. Last month i heard Wilson Sasha 1 + dual krell fpb400 monos directly to DAC DCS Vivaldi with Nordost cable Speaker and Transparent Ref XLR. one of the best sounds I've ever heard

[@juanjusino5655]

THE PREAMP MAKES BIG DIFFERNCE! ENHANCE ALL THE "SPECTRUM". WTHOUT IT; SOUND IS DULL.

[@cesargutierrez4999]

Pre amp with is better

[@herrtrigger7220]

Not pre vs DAC, this is tube vs SS. The SS wins here but the tubes are cozy for sure. A little too much haze with the ARC. Give the Freya+ a listen, it's better than the tube pre amp you are playing here. It has a little haze compared to DAC direct but better focus and not as much flavor as the ARC adds.

[@clemmtec9506]

No pre sound melo.

[@JingoLoBa57]

Mmmmm. More sound moves more clarity less treated sounds without the preamp. More live sound. Much more accurate presentation of actual recording esp bass and treble voice and bass lines are much more accurate and full. I prefer without. But I can listen to both. But the preamp wipes out too much information. Listening with wireless Sony WH1000MX3.

[@performingspecs7841]

No preamp sounds better here.

[@rationalguy2941]

Straight from dac

[@kenokeno00]

..........give me more gain......don't touch my eq...........1db please........ah right there..........

[@KillerKiller655]

If funny people who call them audiophiles making evaluation of a system and listen it over KZbin stream and there own system .....

[@jeffrysatu7069]

No pre amp

[@dragonkabodan]

Nothing beats ARC preamp full stop.

[@1969CampEvans]

Not that important for moi....either or

[@monkeypunker]

I listened without looking, so kind of a blind test. First recording is better sounding, reveals some emotions in female voice, piano is nice, a bit colored with some echoes but the room is just too boxy as it can bee seen. Second recording, just no life. Not musical enough for my taste.