Predator 212 - Series 30 Torque Converter Install: The SMOG Project 05

Step-by-step installation of a generic "Series 30" torque converter (torque-a-verter) go kart transmission on a Harbor Freight Predator 212 non-hemi engine. The generic "Series 30" torque converter is for engines 6-8hp. It's pulley ratio range is 2.7:1 (low) to 0.90:1 (high).
If you enjoyed this video and would like to learn more about SMOG, the 1,150 lb. dragon-tricycle, please click here: • Building a Fire Breath...

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Recently, KZbin decided it was OK to start running ads on my videos without my permission and without paying me any revenue. If you see bumper ads or mid-rolls in my videos, please know that I HATE THEM TOO and did not put them there. That was all KZbin's doing.

[@lukasmaxim8965]

you prolly dont care but does someone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot my login password. I love any assistance you can give me.

[@JNC1973]

Now is this basically the same method I would use when installing a Torque Converter on a stock 196cc Mini Bike Engine ?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Should be. Both the 196cc and 212cc engines are clones of the Honda GX-series engines. The TAV kits are knock-offs of the Comet Torque-A-Verter. YMMV, but the install procedure "should" be similar.

[@JNC1973]

This is a great step by step how to video minus the the part where you forgot to put the belt on at the end of the video but I'll try to remember to put the belt on before the pulley cover some time lol. I just got the Torque Converter and Riser Plate in the mail today so I'm getting ready to do this install. I just wish I could see how to remove the mini bike clutch that is on there now and install the riser plate that I will have to do before I start putting the Torque Converter on. Also not sure how to make the new chain the proper size but I'll have to figure it out on my own I guess. Basically I have a 196cc Mini Bike and I'm replacing the stock clutch with this new Torque Converter so i must figure out how to get everything off first before I put new stuff on. If I gotta put this Riser Plate in that means I have to take the whole Engine out which sounds like a lot of work but hopefully it goes smoother than I'm thinking it will go.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Re-sizing the chain is easy. But you WILL need a chain-breaker tool for your chain size. Trying to drive out a pin with a hammer & punch not only sux, but usually just mangles the chain.

[@dpeterson2934]

Great video, no blaring music, no segments of you playing with dogs, etc, Just thoughtful instructions. Too bad other videos don't take yours as an example.

[@JJC991]

Best comment I've ever read on KZbin

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

10-4 I look to these for details & helps, all the other mumbo jumbo is a waste of MY time

[@ol-man-duffyj688]

Being an A&P license holder I truly enjoyed hearing about the special BeLL Helicopter 🚁 spanner wrench from your dad. Those are special moments and aviation is rich with heritage and history. 👏🏼 😊

[@deegan727]

I don’t understand why this video has any dislikes. This guy is giving people decades of his earned knowledge in 27 minutes for free. I’m mainly watching this because I’m on my machine at work and bored (steel mill roll shop maintenance) and wanted to see if I could learn something I didn’t already know. I can tell you this guy knows what he’s talking about and is giving us way more information than the bare minimum that is needed to install this torque converter. A lot of what he is saying can be used for many different things.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

THANKS! When I first started making videos for The SMOG Project, I never thought anyone other than my friends would watch them. But with this video, I decided to try to show ALL of the steps that the other videos skip over. It was sort of an experiment because I also write step-by-step guides at work. Sometime around last Christmas, this video started to take off. Which blows me away, because it really isn't a very good video. But I'm happy that a few thousand people were able to take something away from it, good or bad. I hope that everyone enjoys it, and that it helps with everyone's projects.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

The company you work for should give you a RAISE if you're doing step by step guides, been there & done that & even butted heads with engineers & tech publications about how crappy theirs were LOL @@doktorscottdiabolical

[@JUNXRCZ]

Haters gonna hate , i enjoyed the video

[@evildark940]

Thank you, me and a friend are going to change the one on my kart now. I've had it sitting in the garage forever and been intimidated by it but this video made me much more comfortable.

[@johnlowery846]

Great job scott! I wished everyone did videos like you. Perfect, clear and to the point, thank you very much.

[@xNELVKALEN]

Litterally the best video covering the install of these torque converters! Purchased a kit from a large seller of these and their instruction video left me with a lot of questions and extra parts. Thanks for the help!

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

GEEZ as of 12 /31 / 2023 I've read EVERY 263 comments because the production was SO GOOD I knew there had to be a number of questions or stupid comments I could laugh at. This will be MY GO TOO when I get to this stage of my project

[@FJstern]

I’ve watched a lot of videos on how to in stall this unit and I have to say this is by far the best one I have watched thank you.. you cleared up some things I did not know. Now I can install the torque converter with confidence that it is done right. Great job. I’ll be looking for more of your videos again great job.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Thank you. I really appreciate it. When I made this video, I never thought more than a few dozen people would watch it. I was creating a lot of step-by-step guides at work at the time, and the video was just sort of an experiment. I really wish I could be out in the lab making more videos right now. But in the last 6 months, I've been away from home almost 7 weeks. Between that, my own chronic illness, and the Colorado weather... there just hasn't been time. Hopefully I'll have some more content in a few weeks.

[@trevinskiking2165]

@@doktorscottdiabolical I'm same , But 11 Chronic illness's but NO snow or covit here but I know what you mean about the hindrances etc & just playing around with the video initially !. Goodonya .Trev New Zealand, Home of the world's fastest old Indian & Indy etc racer Scott Dickson.Good effort, for those who don't know Engineering wise but FINE threads in Alloy (Crankcase) have a habit of stripping if torque'd up too much...everyone's been warned....

[@hsslegg]

Great video, straight to the point great tutorial, a lot of information that is hard to find anywhere else.

[@budgillett9627]

IMO an excellent and professionally produced informative video! Thank sir!

[@timkern462]

Great video, but you might want to note that using anti-seize on a bolt and then torquing to spec will greatly over-tension the bolt. Unless otherwise stated, torque specs are for clean, dry, new assemblies. Dirty, buggered, oily, or worn threads won't torque properly.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

NOT a real big deal, it appears that he has had to remove such that SHOULD of been anti seized in the 1st place

[@babytuccbts7721]

Only video that helped me after 5 hours of looking🙏🏽

[@joshpage8464]

The belt is directional, there is a flat side and a angled side. The angled side goes away from the engine to match the slope of the torque converter.

[@T_gaming28]

He said that

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

He DIDN'T miss that point, BUT glad you mentioned that IMPORTANT part

[@1607rosie]

Hmm 1971 that was a great year. Thanks for the tips!

[@koreywilliams4570]

I tried to install this the other day and the instructions were a joke... the thing came half way put together and the instructions had 3 steps and 4 pictures. I have no idea if I put it on right or not. Interesting.. looks like i had it pretty close up to the shims. Glad I watched this or I never would have known to check for that.

[@Ghost88890REAL]

Thanks for the video, the smart guy who sold me the mini bike with aftermarket TAV and engine decided to use an impact and the bolts are forever stuck until I decided to purchase a new predator 212 and comet kit.

[@larsbliss2728]

In the old days if we needed to keep the engine from spinning when tightening a flywheel for example, remove the spark plug and stuff a piece of rope in the plug hole till enough is in the cylinder to keep the pistol from moving. Tighten the nut down then remove the rope.

[@timgiles9413]

That is actually a good idea :)

[@philliphall5198]

It’s what this 72 years mechanic still does

[@davem1633]

Excellent instructional video thanks. It's well paced and very thorough. I love the way you dealt with forgetting the belt, I will remember that when installing mine and save doing the same thing 😂.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

WHICH WAY the bevel goes was a EXCELLENT mention for sure

[@dave1135]

17:21 a better way to hold the engine while torquing the clutch bolt, is to use a piston stop pin in place of the spark plug, or stuff several feet of starter cord down the hole when the piston is down on the power stroke, this way the valves are closed and will not be damaged. Doing it by holding the starter cord, you are putting stress on the starter dogs in the pull starter, and these are made of plastic, so you run the risk of damaging them . Small engine shop owner here.

[@duffdoesstuff]

Very helpful video...primarily due to the belt orientation in my situation. I had mine on backward and I had a very low top speed.

[@mr.potato1649]

This guy has a vendetta against impact wrenches lol. I used a tiny dewalt impact to install mine, super quick and as long as u only let it impact a time or too you won’t over due it. Especially if u have selectable power settings like mine does. But who knows maybe it all seizes up on me or my engine blows up😂

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

You have watched the wrong video. You wanted "how to do it in 6 minutes and maybe screw up if you ain't lucky". My video is 27 minutes long. In my experience no power tool, especially an impact tool, provides enough tactile feedback to consistently avoid stretching or tearing out the threads of these cheap, Chineseium-alloy engines. Nor do they provide enough control to avoid warping parts due to inconsistent torque values on multiple bolts. Sure, impact drivers "can" be used successfully for this installation. So can an 11-ft long snipe. But neither will be a good choice in the hands of the inexperienced person this video was intended for.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

"This guy has a vendetta against impact wrenches lol."

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

YEP, your clip removes potential issues for those unlearned, IF someone follows YOUR procedure to a T they will have NO issues unless it's defective parts@@doktorscottdiabolical

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

SUPERB / EXCELLENT production, I didn't know ANYTHING about these setups and was considering one on this engine to turn a Snapper mower into a cart with a live axle, this GREAT DETAILED clip will now make my install flawless, as a 40+ year Snapper Mower MFG QC guy I really dig those that can detail such, SUBBED due to the EXCELLENT NO BS details

[@gregoryc5989]

Great video, very detailed. Appreciate it

[@Lcab-bh3wx]

Man time flies when you working on any 2 wheeler. NICE...

[@slickricktheruler]

Very helpful video. Thank you.

[@ol-man-duffyj688]

Love love this content and thanks for you assistance, especially the info about knowing the ratio for our bikes as that leads into the chain and sprocket combo I’ll need. Good stuff.

[@bobbybishop634]

Very helpful information and I like the way you took your time and explained everything thoroughly. Great job 👏

[@anthonylangley8717]

Thank you for this very detailed tutorial! I have been watching several other videos that were not presented very well at all. My son and I are converting a centrifugal clutch to a torque converter for the first time and this video is exactly what I’ve been looking for!

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Your welcome. I had the same experience before I made the video. Lots of banging and power tools, but never the critical details you really need. This was one of my early videos and I wish the production quality was better. But I'm glad you found it useful.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

LOL ...... NOTHING wrong with the production quality my friend, and I'm a FANATIC about Quality issues & creation of such detailed helps having worked 40+ years within the Quality MFG field, NOTHING was lacking in this production & SALUTE to your dad ! @@doktorscottdiabolical

[@carmabitesbac]

Excellent details ,Very helpful start to finish.

[@roman_abelardo]

Es el primer vídeo con explicaciones al detalle, excelente. Mis felicitaciones y me suscribo para seguir aprendiendo...

[@benschulz3559]

I did the same thing to my mini bike, this is the way to do it! You get so much more speed from torque converters, my mini bike went 25mph before I put the torque converter on and after it can almost go 60mph.

[@michaelschott5590]

Thank you for that show. Very good presentation. I learned.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@thebertusmcth]

Amazing instruction. Also shocked to hear the lafayette, la shout out. Lived in Lafayette my entire life.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Great. Now I'm hungry for Dean-O's....

[@serralvo26]

Thank you very much for the information regarding the gear ratios. I was looking for this info and could not find ... So, thank you very much. Greetings from Brazil!

[@CloudsurfParagliding]

Very thorough. The GTC manual said about 12 foot pounds on that jackshaft nylock nut. I think 30 is too much

[@ericsmith4513]

Oh yeah 😎. Got interested in Torque-Converters after talking to John senior at "Mableton Lawnmower and Go-cart Repair" in Mableton, Georgia West of Atlanta. John said that a Go-cart with a Torque-Converter can literally Walk-away from a Chain-driven Go-cart both with 6.5 horsepower motors. 😳 Wanting power my adult Trike with 212cc, 6.5 Hp Predator so I can pull my 150 pound (empty weight) garden-tractor trailer from Northern Equipment to Lowe's and Home Depot .

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

SMOG weighs 1,350 lbs. I had plenty of power and no belt slippage while climbing a 4% grade. But I use a ton of gear reduction. Top speed is only 5 mph because : parade float.

[@eric-.]

wow. what a great video. thanks for posting this.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

You're welcome!

[@SmooveBee1]

That TAV is very clever! the series 30! Wow!

[@Jonascrews88]

You are a life saver bro

[@jamesfarmer2748]

Great video! I would probably adjust my torque down a little on those bolts with antiseize to cover the frictional differences.

[@dyingforpie6879]

I thought i was learning a new trick by you not putting that belt on first 😀

[@stinkyvonfishstix4196]

You're the man what a great video

[@noearias2006]

EXCELLENT VIDEO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME

[@levishepherd8619]

Best video ever thank you

[@user-qr5vb3vm6e]

Must put the torque to the wheel pretty well. 👍🇺🇸👍awesome on a 26 inch bicycle.

[@jerrydempsey3490]

Excellent how to video. 👍

[@juanandrade8733]

Great video...how much power do you think it adds?

[@bonjournito]

Hi thanks for the video. Can you tell me what’s the overall width of whole motor plus converter assembly?

[@josephgoraj6136]

Dose this convertor fit on Coleman ct200 u? also do you have to get engine riser for clearance?

[@RealestateKingThe1]

I am doing a engine swap on my Coleman CT200U and I installed the engine and torque converter so where do I put the chain

[@IPCRo]

Got a problem. In my country I can't get a predator engine but similar. The problem is the jackshaft dismeter is either 18mm or 20 mm. Do you think the cvt kit will fit in one of them?

[@dergici7431]

Great video

[@dillonnauta8601]

Such a great video. Is the mounting plate necessary? I have a predator 212 with a 30 series off a 3203 yerf dog but it didnt come with the mounting plate

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Not absolutely necessary. But it provides the driven pulley & jackshaft with the correct geometry in a convenient package.

[@mennowieler9951]

Very nice. I am working on putting an old Koehler 12hp in a club car cart. The shaft is just a tad over one inch so I’m hoping if I order the 1” torque converter that it will fit.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Fingers crossed. With any precision made part, thousandths of an inch (or 10ths of a millimeter) count. But the tolerances on the parts in my kit are pretty loose. So you may get lucky. Let us know how it goes.

[@tomswink819]

Did ya get your golf cart project finished?

[@CatfishingChris]

as far as tightening that bolt on the clutch,from what ive read that lil slit in the washer is to hold a flat head screwdriver so you can tighten the bolt. Am i wrong? Maybe. im on my first go kart myself.

[@youreverydaydad7608]

What size bolt did you use for the clutch out of your own collection? I've broken 3 bolts off so far while driving the kart.. I believe now with your help it was because of a off line pulley set up. I used a flat bar and I needed another washer to line them up.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

The stainless steel bolt that threads into the crankshaft in this video is nominally 2" long. It actually measures 1-15/16" from the underside of the cap to the end of the bolt. That's what worked with the setup and washer stack that I used in the video. Your kit and setup may be different. The thread standard on my motor is 5/16"-24 tpi (SAE fine). BUT, that's for a Predator 212 sold in the USA. I would expect that in every other part of the world, the crankshaft would be tapped for a metric thread standard.

[@Jcrause]

Nice video I’ve done a lot of these and you did a great job

[@TheTrampmasters]

Is the bronze bushing 3/4”?

[@georgemiller6930]

Could you possibly do a video explaining the proper sprockets to choose with this torque converter? I love this video and it was extremely detailed.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I'm not sure what information you're looking for. With sprockets, there are three critical dimensions: chain pitch (i.e. chain size, like #35 or #40), axle diameter (the size of the hole in the sprocket), and tooth count (determines your drive ratio). There's more information on the sprockets I used in my "transmission assembly" and "dog clutch" videos. But keep in mind that I'm building a big, heavy, very slow parade float with 60" wheels. So my choice of components are based on my experience with that application.

[@jonjudice1155]

My girlfriend's grandfather and stepdad both work for PHI and the grandfather was there in 1971

[@brodjohn5993]

I enjoyed listening and learned some thank you for step by step , I have a question if you can do a video, now that you installed the torque converter is it possible you can show how to install electric starter without removing the pull starter ? Please let me know ? Thanks Mr.Ruiz

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Good suggestion. Currently, electric start is beyond my budget. But I'd love to have it some day.

[@tiger1775]

Did you ever try to install the converter cover? I have the same setup and the cover rubs on the belt causing them to shred...

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

No, I haven't tried yet. In my application, it's not really necessary. My plan is to eventually enclose (or at least partially enclose) the engine with soundproofing. If I were installing this on a go-kart though, especially one used by kids, I'd definitely be installing a guard of some sort. Mt Dad had a bad experience with a go-kart pulley when he was 10, and he still had the scars 30 years later.

[@AIRMANBEAR]

I HAD TO CHASE THE INTERNAL THREADS ON THE FRONT PULLEY ATTACH BOLT HOLE ON THE MOTOR WITH (5/16 x FINE THREAD TAP ) AS THE CORRECT (BOUGHT SEPARATELY ) BOLT WOULD ONLY GO IN LESS THAN 2 TURNS . NOTE : THE WRONG BOLT THAT CAME WITH THIS FRONT CHINESE PULLEY WAS AN 8MM X125 ! VIDEO (IT WOULD GO IN LESS THAN ONE TURN -+ AND BIND) EXCELLENT VIDEO ...........

[@turbovolvos40]

Is it possible to mount the sprocket on the circlip side of the driven shaft?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Not with my kit. At least, not without a good bit of modification and lathe work. I have heard of a kit that does have that setup. But I've never seen it.

[@dillonnauta8601]

Whats the bolt length on the driver pulley? Videos ive seen have said to get a 2 inch one for the predator 212, but it seems to be too short

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

2" worked for me with the spacer and washer stack I used. But if 2" is too short for your motor, get a 2-1/2" and cut it down as needed to fit your application.

[@dillonnauta8601]

​@doktorscottdiabolical oh, I was actually just putting the pacman washer on backwards, so the flange wasn't inside the shaft and was spacing it too much. Embarrassing! But thanks for your response.

[@H3MaS11]

17:50 lol , good job so far best predator 212 torque converter install I've seen on KZbin, most other videos they just slap it on and don't go over the details

[@domenicozagari2443]

On the oil caps just put one or two washers.

[@monkeydude3987]

How long is the bolt that holds the drive pulley on? I am putting one of these where a Tecumseh used to be , and the new engine shaft is shorter so I need a bolt longer than the roughly 1.75” one that was there.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

The bolt that I used measures 1-15/16" (50mm) from the underside of the head to the end. However, longer bolts are easy to get from any decent hardware store. Your engine manufacturer should list the diameter and thread pitch of the hole bored into the crankshaft. Those are the critical dimensions (they may be metric). Assuming you know what bolt length you need, you just go to the store and buy one that fits the hole. Note: if you can't find a bolt that will work, you can shorten a bolt that is too long by threading on a nut, cutting the bolt to length with your weapon of choice (hacksaw, grinder, This-Old-Tony karate chop), cleaning up the end a bit with a file or sandpaper, then unthreading the nut. Ain't pretty, but it works.

[@monkeydude3987]

@@doktorscottdiabolical Thanks for the detailed replying! It is indeed the 5/16-24 pitch thread in the crankshaft, so since they were less than $1 each I got the next 3 sizes up and will choose one to use as is or trim to fit. Looking forward to getting the machine going!

[@assassinsgeek5855]

How much is the axis of the motor ? please

[@doriancanales4050]

so detailed we even made the mistakes with you

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

[@merinofarmeragriculturewor4623]

Hey mate got a question.. I’m getting a 6.5 motor with a 19mm shaft..will 3/ 4 fit on with the torque converter with 19mm shaft?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Converting mm to bananas... 19mm = .748" so it "should". But... you won't really know until you try. All of the components on my drive pulley assembly had a pretty sloppy fit. And the kits are made in China, so maybe they're actually 19mm kits marketed to us Yankees as 3/4"?

[@Itsontothenext1980]

I’ve seen videos of people running the sprocket for the driven shaft on the back side of the plate. Different kit??

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Must be. @3:05 The bearings for the driven shaft in this kit have different bore sizes and the shaft itself has a larger diameter on the "plate side" than it does on the "pulley side". Also, there's no keyway on the "plate side" of the shaft. So there's no way to "install the shaft backwards in the plate" or to mount the sprocket to the "plate side" of the shaft. You would need to machine an entirely new driven shaft for that setup to work with this kit. Of course, there's no accounting for idiots. Somebody may have put the driven shaft in backwards and just let it flop around.

[@hittinone]

@@doktorscottdiabolical on my kit you can mount pocket n either side of plate depending on your needs. Mine is for 1in shaft not 3/4 " like this one

[@timgiles9413]

@@hittinone Where did you buy that one?

[@shortstreetproduction5352]

Hello. On this video what is the outside diameter of the drive pulley. Looking for a cvt set up like this but need a certain diameter for clearance. Thank you.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

On my kit, the largest diameter on the drive-pulley assembly is the outer cover. It is 4.900" or 124.5mm.

[@drumtwo4seven]

Damn good 👍

[@maxamps45]

is the belt slipping on low speed? seems pretty loose when on low speed. I notice it the plate is squeezing it when it spin at high speed.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Yes, but it's designed to. That's how this type of torque converter works. As RPM increases, centrifugal (centripetal, whatever) force causes the weights to move outward. These cam the two halves of the cone-shaped pulleys together, engaging and driving the belt, and also increasing the effective diameter of the pulleys and thus the drive ratio. This happens automatically and is self-regulating depending on engine rpm and load. If I filmed SMOG going uphill, you would see the pulley sides move apart as load increased and RPM decreased (that's what the springs do). That would decrease the drive ratio and have the same effect as shifting into a lower gear in a manual transmission. The idea is that engine rpm remains constant for a given power setting. It's not perfect, but it does an effective job.

[@maxamps45]

@@doktorscottdiabolical thanks bro. I really appreciate the thorough explanation.

[@jasminesteadings2530]

So how do you get to the carburetor on the 212 stage 1 predator motor cause there’s mud all in mine from when I went through the mud caped in there should I say

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

To be honest, I had to watch someone else's video for that. I've only torn down a 212 carb once. And that was on my generator after it sat for a year and the metering needle stuck shut. Dunno about mud. Parade floats generally don't get very muddy.

[@dominicwatkins7529]

Could you put a link of where you found the torque converter kit?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I bought mine on Amazon from a guy that was primarily selling boat stereos. That was several years ago and he's gone now. So, no links. But... these kits all appear to come from one or two factories in China. I recommend finding the least-sketchy dude with decent prices that seems like he's include all of the parts when he ships the kit. Because all of the kits are basically the exact same thing.

[@StreetbeefsScrapyard]

What size bolt did you use (fine threaded stainless bolt)

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

The bolt that goes into the end of the crankshaft depends on exactly which engine you have, and where you live. Some are metric, some are American threads. Check the manufacturer specs for your specific engine & model.

[@brentd3443]

Where does a guy buy just the machined spacer & bolt to secure the pulley to the shaft of the engine? I bought a 30 series to mount to the Predator 212. The spacer I have now is about 1/4” too long, so need a shorter one. Any help would be great! Thank you! Very useful video!

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Good question! If you're in the US, I would try McMaster-Carr or Granger first. Look for something like "unthreaded spacer" or "shaft bushing". You might also try an online bearing & chain shop. I've had good luck with The Big Bearing Store. If you've got a GOOD local hardware or farm supply store (the kind that has an entire isle of just nuts and bolts), you might be able to find a few spacers/washers/nuts that you can stack up. Keep in mind that on a rotating shaft, thousandths of an inch count. Standard clearance of .005" is the thickness of a sheet of paper. Anything more (like the washer I used) will introduce additional vibration and wear. IDEALLY you would determine exactly how long your spacer needs to be. Then you would find a guy with a lathe or take it to a machine shop and have the spacer faced down to the correct length. Do you know any local kart racers, drag racers, retired machinists? They may be able to point you toward a friendly shop. If all else fails, clamp your spacer in a vise, cut it off a little long with a hacksaw, then carefully file it down to size with a mill file. That method sux, but it can work if you're patient and careful. I personally intend to turn a new spacer in the mini-lathe once I have the engine location and vibration issues worked out. But that's going to be a while. I got stuck rebuilding my back yard deck this summer.

[@brentd3443]

Ok! Thank you for the reply! Good info!

[@ChristopherJones16]

@@brentd3443 Saw a video where the guy said he uses copper pipe as spacers and said works great. Just cut to whatever size spacing you need.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

EXCELLENT idea, I've use PVC & CVP plastic pipe for some quickie setups @@ChristopherJones16

[@rochesterworks9537]

On the install, could you mount the plate so that the gear that the chain goes on to the left side instead of the right?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Not on my kit. The bearings are different I.D. sizes and the shaft is "stepped" so it only fits one way. I've heard of a kit that allows the driven shaft to be reversed, but I've never seen it.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

That's good to know that one may be out there@@doktorscottdiabolical

[@stevewallbanger5408]

Hey brother. I'm trying to build a motorized bicycle with a preditor 212. I need help finding a place to order the tourqe converter and sprocket kit. And stuff. Any suggestions?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I got my TAV on Amazon a few years ago. There are lots of sellers, mostly selling the exact same Chinese kit they bought wholesale. Do your homework, and try to find a not-so-scummy one. FYI: putting a 212cc engine in a conventional bicycle will probably require a lot of custom fabrication. Especially to the rear hub. It can be done, but it ain't easy. You're not going to find a kit for it. Also... vibration. LOTS of vibration.

[@oneanon]

I have a quick question, I have a Realtree 200 mini bike that I bought from Walmart customer returned it Walmart gave sold it to me at 50% off. So I brought it home and looking around I removed the spark to to see it and I noticed when I pulled to start the engine with the plug off, oil was coming out is that Normal or did I get a lemon.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Assuming oil was coming out of the spark plug hole... not necessarily anything wrong. Oil may have been added to the top end of the cylinder by the mfg as a corrosion preventative. Oil may also have seeped past the piston rings if the bike was sitting upside down or at an odd angle for more than a few minutes. That much oil (less than a tablespoon full) will burn off. You shouldn't see any more oil than that above the piston. With the ignition off, try pulling the motor through a few revolutions. If it doesn't lock up, turn on the ignition and fuel and try starting it. It'll probably smoke like a train for a few seconds. If it keeps on smoking after a minute or more, then there may be internal damage like a broken piston ring or broken valve stem, etc.

[@thechallenge6353]

What’s the size of the bolt that goes on the drum of the torque converter? I’m asking because I lost mine and I can’t find the right measurements

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

That bolt goes directly into the end of the crankshaft. So the diameter and thread pitch depend on the engine you're using and what it's tapped for. My Predator 212cc wedge-head is tapped 5/16"-24 tpi (I'm in the USA). Length is also dependent on your engine, your actual setup and how you positioned the backing plate, the number of shims you had to improvise to get everything to line up, etc, etc. That may take some experimentation. But remember, you can "shorten" a bolt with a hacksaw.

[@thechallenge6353]

@@doktorscottdiabolical thank you for your help!!! Do you think that it is in home depot?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Maybe. But it would be in one of the "special bolt" drawers since 5/16"-24 is UNF "fine" pitch. You'll have better luck at Ace Hardware or Tractor Supply.

[@ryandhowell07]

I just installed a brand new 30 series TC on my Predator 212, but the drive pulley doesn't spin freely and engages immediately. I think it might be the belt being a size too small. It would be weird to include the wrong size belt in a brand new kit, but it felt really tight to install. How tight/difficult was yours to put on? I did check and make sure that the flat and angled side of the belt was pointed in the right direction. I read also that some people didn't use the brass bushing on the drive pulley. Any other thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Great video!

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

My belt is very stiff compared to a v-belt. But it isn't tight enough to always be engaged. Your engine should idle without turning the belt. I've noticed that these belts come in several sizes that are very close to one another, but different enough to matter. If you've checked everything else and the belt is the only issue, your kit may have included the wrong size. Or, it may just be a bad belt. Unfortunately, consistent quality is not a thing with these kits.

[@philliphall5198]

Turn belt around, it matters

[@SK-hj8ss]

I realize you posted this question a long time ago. But I had the same problem. I had the wrong size belt. Ultimately, I found out I needed a 725 size. 725 is the same size as this belt in this video. You can see "725" painted on the belt. GoPowerSports sells them.

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

YEP I worked inspecting incoming belts that were used on our Snapper mower products, there was quite a length variation ( tolerance ) used on the lengths of those belts, due to MFG variations of the mating parts occasionally there would be issues, thus ALL the belts in ONE shipment would be marked with the same part number but the actual measurements would vary BUT WITHIN tolerance, can't remember now but seems it wasn't nothing to see up to a 1/8 or more on variations @@doktorscottdiabolical

[@janicefullerton6201]

This video will help me with my new project! I’m going to put a 212 Predator motor on a bicycle but I do not know where to get a good deal on the mounting plate? All prices I see it cost more than my new engine! 😤

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

If you're installing it in a bicycle, I'd recommend waiting to make your decision until after I upload the next video. I've been experimenting with the rubber engine mounts and have made a LOT of progress. That may change your decision, because rigidly mounting a 212 in a bicycle frame will transmit so much vibration that you may not want to ride it more than once. SMOG weighs 1,150 lbs, and even at that weight, rigid engine mounts were a total fail.

[@ChristopherJones16]

Call up your local machine shops and get quotes on how much itll cost to have them to make you one.. you can have them bolt the plates together. no need to weld although welded together is preferred. Bring in your bike and they can measure it for you but you can easily design your plate with 1"x6" wooden boards from lowes. You can screw up and still have plenty of board to cut a new piece of plate till you get your mounting plates perfect .. draw in where you want your bolts at that clamp the plates together and the holes for the wooden clamps that hug the seat post pipe and bottom pipe. drill out.. bolt together.. test for fit. Not big enough.. cut larger pieces.. too big.. shave off. easy. For the clamping plates that hug the seat post pipe and bottom pipe.. simply picture a 1" thick rectangle plate about 5" long. Drill a hole in the center of it that is the size of the seat post pipe. Then cut a line from one end of the rectangle down the middle till you hit the hole. Now you have a wooden clamp than can huge a pipe and have bolt holes drilled through the "clamping" end of that plate for the bolts to squeeze the "slitted" end together to hug the seat post pipe tighter. Then you you a piece of wood that bolts the clamping piece of wood to the "seat post pipe plate" that stands up vertical. Then you cut another rectangle block as a reinforcement plate to bolt the black plate to the base plate that gets clamped to the bottom pipe. And youre done. Its basically two plates, two clamping plates. and 3 reinforcement blocks that allow you to clamp the individual plate to each other and to the clamping plates. Nothing to it. oh and as the Doktor said.. rubber mounting pads everywhere the plates meet contact with the frame and motor to absorb as much vibration as possible. Itsll make the bike quieter and keep your bike from falling apart when nuts vibrate loose and fall off.

[@biohazardousppl2542]

Did u removed the governor or just run the engine with the governor intact?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I did not remove the governor. The motor is factory stock. SMOG is a parade float. He's designed to have a cruising speed of 2-3 mph.

[@ashboi21gamer24]

i put a torque converter on my mini bike but the clutch isn’t engaging do you know why?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Watch the "engine pulley" as you increase RPM. The side of it should move inward to engage the belt. If it's not moving, something isn't assembled correctly. If it is moving but just doesn't engage the belt, check that you have the belt installed correctly. One side has a bevel. If that isn't it, you may have a washer in he wrong place or something assembled in the wrong order.

[@brandonhunter309]

What size is the crank shaft bolt came in your kit?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I don't recall what came with the kit, but the crankshaft on my engine is tapped 5/16"-24tpi. I would expect engines not sold in the USA to be tapped metric. As far as the length of the bolt, I think I've answered that somewhere in the comments with an exact measurement (2 1/2 - 3 1/2 inches???). But what I'm seeing is that different kits may need different length bolts, and even the same type of kit can have significant variations. Also, the thickness of the spacer used to align the belt will make a difference. Keep in mind that any bolt can be "shortened" by cutting a bit off the end with a hacksaw or angle grinder.

[@Godofhouse]

So this mechanism has its own clutch already? I was going to try and install a clutch to go to a torque converter

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Yes. The design of the TAV allows it to act as both clutch and constantly variable transmission. And, it will outperform go kart centrifugal clutches.

[@Godofhouse]

@@doktorscottdiabolical that’s probably my favorite part now lol I’m gonna buy one but probably change the springs I want it to engage earlier. I was also wondering can you change the gear to the other side of the pulley on the non-driven end? My sprocket aligns basically to the end of my engine shaft almost exactly and this is offsetting me 2-3 inches

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

On my kit I cannot change the location of the sprocket. It might be possible to re-design, but that would take a lot of machining and would still probably fail under load. I've heard of a kit that has the output chain sprocket on the engine side of the driven shaft. But I've never seen it.

[@bgkclassic]

What to do when i put a stage 1 kit with jet into motor and it destroys the belt within the hour? Stiffer spring? Bigger rear sprocket? Im having troubles but i would like to be able to keep the kit and the clutch

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Check your pulley alignment. The belt is designed to move parallel side-to-side as the pulley faces move in and out. It isn't designed to handle misalignment angles like a v-belt would. I had to shim my driven pulley quite a bit to get it to align. Also, make sure you're using the correct belt. There are several similar looking belts available that have very subtle differences.

[@bgkclassic]

@@doktorscottdiabolical the alignment is perfect with the chain and belt. Before i bought the new clutch, my old one didnt tear apart the belt but burnt it until the belt lost enough width and it hardened to the point it rode up and down the spindles but wouldn't grip anything. And those were comet brand kevlar belts.. idk i guess i need to return to stock motor.

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Sounds like you're cooking the belt. Too much power for a stock Series 30. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the stage-kit world to know if a TAV upgrade would be worth the money, or if you need a Series 40. Maybe someone else can answer that question?

[@jeffsond]

My old Carter go Kart has a 20 series torque converter setup. It also has the the Predator 212 engine. I guess I can change this out and go with the 30 series kit??

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

The knock-off "30-series" definitely will work with the Predator 212 wedge-head engine. Whether or not a 30-series will work in your application really depends on which Predator 212 engine you have, and the axle, sprocket, and driveline setup of your kart. You'll want to consider crankshaft diameter, chain pitch(size), Sprocket sizes (#of teeth and ratio of drive:driven), and available physical space and how much flexibility you have in mounting the unit. Each of those parts has to match the next. A TAV designed for a 3/4" crankshaft dia. won't fit on a 1" dia crankshaft. #35 chain & sprockets are not interchangable with #40, etc.

[@jeffsond]

@@doktorscottdiabolical hello again... I think I may have figured something out instead of the replacement of the torque converter assembly. After I installed a new belt a couple of months ago I noticed belt dust everywhere around the engine and seat back. Last night I was looking at the alignment of the engine pulley and the axel pulley. The axel pulley sits 3/4” off center of the engine pulley. I’m guessing that could cause issues? The clutch seems to operate nicely when I have the tires off the ground and running the kart. I was told by a guy that because it’s a belt the alignment won’t matter. What do you think Doktor Scott? Also do they sell a shim or spacer set for the clutch where it mounts on the engine??

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Alignment always matters. With v-belts, you can get away with a lot of misalignment. But it comes at the expense of heat, wear, and power loss due to increased resistance. With a TAV, I've read from multiple sources that the engine-side pulley alignment is critical. I had to shim mine quite a bit. I've never seen a specific shim/spacer made for this application. I'm planning to machine one at some point. Assuming you don't have a lathe, you might try searching for "shaft spacer" or "bushing stock" from McMaster-Carr, or Grainger, etc.

[@jeffsond]

@@doktorscottdiabolical sounds good thx

[@jeffsond]

@@doktorscottdiabolical one other thing. The pulley on the axel shaft that has a visible spring. Sometimes when riding it won’t go into the fast speed. I can sometimes here a clunk . Can that spring mechanism be cleaned and lubricated and make it function correctly??

[@justinmyrick5321]

why would one use a 35 or 40 chain? what is the difference, advantages, and disadvantages?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

#35 chain is narrower, lighter, and has a shorter pitch (shorter links) than #40. That allows all of the components in the drivetrain (sprockets, shafts, etc) to be lighter and often smaller than #40 components. For a single-seat go kart, #35 is plenty strong, and is generally easier to work with. I'm using #40 because 1) I originally needed the additional strength to handle the torque of the human-powered drivetrain 2) I was already using #40 in the human-powered drivetrain and had components and tools to work with it 3) SMOG is a parade float with a top speed of 5 mph. I'm not really concerned with weight savings. If I were building a go kart where space and weight were an issue, I'd probably use #35.

[@TheChiefJudgeDredd]

No washer needed between the plate and sprocket?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I didn't use one initially. But clearance with the #40 chain was really tight and I did notice some chain rubbing. I'm not sure if I'll need to add shims on the next iteration. Still trying to find time to work on the vibration issue. Life has kinda gotten in the way over the last year or two.

[@richardanderson1977]

I find it interesting you and I both are into model aircraft as well as into the 212 with torque converter! I am doing a mini bike not a go kart! Thanks, I found your video very helpful!

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Thanks. That means a lot to me. I'm glad that it made your day just a little bit better. I personally still can't believe that this video has been viewed 45,000 times! When I started making these videos, I honestly thought it was just going to be my Mom! If I had known it was going to be so many people, I would have tried a little harder.

[@twinbadger1]

Great video. I have seen people have prolly with the brass bushing locking up the clutch and they recommend not putting the bushing on. Have you had any problems like this?

[@HaveGunWillTravel15285]

Will the 212 cc strong enough for a club car golf cart?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

I don't have any experience with that combination. But, it's more than enough for SMOG, and he weighs 1320 lbs.

[@michaelstribling1641]

Good video

[@videovaulttv1]

Will you still be able to fill oil in that same spot where you had to turn it tighter than usual?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Not really. But the 212 engine has two oil plugs, one on either side of the crankcase. I can easily get to the one on the "tank side" of the engine to check and fill the oil.

[@videovaulttv1]

@@doktorscottdiabolical thank you I was worried about that part I didn't know you can put oil in both sides

[@videovaulttv1]

@@doktorscottdiabolical do you recommend I fill with oil prior to installed torque converter?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

If you can't add oil after your install, you need to rethink your install. At some point in the next few years, you're going to have to add oil. Make sure you can do it. Pulling the engine out is a lousy method. On SMOG, it's pretty easy to add oil. But on my portable generator (which uses the same type of engine) I have to add oil by putting it in a squeeze-bottle and squirting it in. A regular quart/liter bottle won't work. I use an old mustard bottle. But I've seen guys replace the cap of a guart/liter bottle with a pop-top cap from a bottle of dish soap. That sometimes works. And there are always funnels. Remember, there is no "right way" to put the oil in. As long as it goes in and it's at the right level for your engine (and you don't contaminate it with a dirty container or funnel), who cares how it gets in there! Be creative!

[@videovaulttv1]

@@doktorscottdiabolical thank you

[@MrHenry1530]

How do you change the belt in the field

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Take one of the pulleys apart? Anyone got a good method for this?

[@ChristopherJones16]

15:40 isnt that steel bolt screwing into the end of the steel crankshaft?

[@doktorscottdiabolical]

Yes. But, almost all of the other bolts are steel screwing into an aluminum alloy.