Going Over Catelyn I, A Game of Thrones

[@Paradoxymoronic]

Catelyn feeling the Weirwood watching her whenever she was around it - could be Bran wanting to see his mother, and oddly dark how she always turns away in fear

[@equinoxomega3600]

My guess, why Ned appears more religious than he is, is because the Old Gods don't have priests. So if there is some ceremony in Winterfell, he is probably the one presiding over it. Ned would see it as a duty in his role as the Lord of Winterfell. His family would see him as the primary source for religious practices (of the Old Gods).

[@SirBallsDeepOfHouseManthrust]

The reason he doesn’t seem “religious” is because he doesn’t practice a “religion” at all. A religion is a faith with texts and tenets, which the Old Gods don’t have. If you talk about the Old Gods, a better way to think of Ned is being faithful or spiritual or something.

[@zeoxyman]

Or another angle - Catelyn is religious, so she projects her mindset onto Ned a bit. I'm sure Ned does believe in the old gods, but just going to a quiet meditative place after having to execute someone is not necessarily spiritual. Ned is comfortable in the godswood and with leading Northern traditions for his family, but that could be more routine and mental comfort than spirituality.

[@juwebles4352]

It doesn't seem like the old gods actually have any religious ceremonies beyond sacrificing people to the heart trees, which is the interesting thing about it to me. Most religions that spread continent-wide usually need to have some legitimizing or useful powers for the ruling powers of said continent. It makes sense why the seven was adopted by the southern first men rulers (knighthood, septons to preach propaganda, & making nice with the zealots from essos). But we don't have much info on why the first men converted to the worship of the old gods; maybe it was part of the pact, maybe the rulers of the first men got legitimacy from the relation to the children of the forest, or maybe it was justification for killing political opponents as 'sacrifices' for the heart trees

[@SirBallsDeepOfHouseManthrust]

@@juwebles4352 100%

[@manband20]

Honestly though Ned doesn't strike me as religious. He strikes me as depressed. Not in the "seeking a higher power" kinda way, but more in the "my brother and dad were killed, my sister died tragically young and left me with a terrible secret, and now I'm living a life that wasn't meant for me" kinda way. Ned just goes to those woods to be left alone. Not to speak to the gods or his family. He just likes to be alone so he can brood.

[@bshaddo]

19:02 - His parents just gave him a giant wolf to take care of. I’d say he has an excellent chance if being three forever.

[@BaalFridge]

Catelyn's perspective shows Ned as such a tryhard that even she doesn't really understand despite being his wife, and I like to read it as Ned's stoicism making him such a blank slate that everyone inadvertently projects unto him. Which fits the trope of Ned being the "average fantasy potagonist" only for GRRM to pull the rug at the end ot the book.

[@bilis2866]

Is Jon the chosen one trope? If so what would the twist be

[@BaalFridge]

@@bilis2866 good question, that really depends on if Winds goes the way of the show or not, but GRRM does seem to like killing tropes, so idk.

[@hobbes1887]

I think that Ned goes to the Godswood not because is spiritual but because it is the quietest place. He goes there to brood and meditate not to pray. If you think we never see Ned pray the old gods. He seems more conservative than religious. He is not a pious man, but he is a man of duty. He seems to follow the old gods because that what Starks do, not because he believes in anything particular. Still there is a part of me wrapped in thinfoil that thinks that to others he seems religious because he is... because intermittently he is warged by old gods. But when we are inside him he does not remeber it.😂😂

[@horacevonbergamot5093]

I would argue the disconnect between Ned and what people think of him is intentional. We see the same thing with Stannis, who everyone thinks to be this unflexible hardliner, when he is the guy who converts to a weird eastern faith, follows the words of a foreign priestess, wants to make a convicted smuggler his hand and lets in a group of people hated for hundreds of years in Westeros.

[@phoenicianprince4635]

I always find myself wondering if this is a unintended flaw resulting from GRRM's writing style of if this is intentional commentary on how people are often very different from how we perceive them externally. The reason I'm not sure is because at times the disconnect seems almost jarring as opposed to natural, I'm aware people have impression about me that are skewed, biased, or not true just as there are those who have accurate idea of my character, moreover, I usually have a pretty accurate impression of most people. So with that said I've never met people that on mass grossly misjudge someone I know personally or do so for myself, it's obviously something that does and must happen but I've never been witness to it in real life to the extent it appears with some of GRRM's character. (Jaime is the exception of this rule because all the external data seems to support people's misjudgments of Jaime, there's information that makes their opinions of him make perfect sense and click, even though we know internally people grossly misjudge him. This just isn't the case with Stannis in particular, he's cold and harsh at times but he's fair and charismatic and can be shockingly inspiring, and he's not particularly rigid, just bitter.

[@phoenicianprince4635]

@@Josh-the-man I'm aware, but I mean it's the disconnect between we as readers see Stannis act vs what the majority of Westeros thinks of Stannis.

[@baab4229]

And wants to legitimize Jon Snow and put him as the leader of Winterfell. Ignoring tradition and lack of precedent for your own objectives is the signature move of Tywin (he wanted to have Jaime dismissed from the Kingsguard and return to Casterly Rock), a man widely seen as a ruthlessly pragmatic leader. But turns out Stannis will do that just as easily.

[@phoenicianprince4635]

@@baab4229 This. Honestly I think this might be why Tywin is so intimidated by Stannis, because he sees Stannis for what his most dangerous traits are, not for what Westeros thinks he is, or at least he has the most accurate idea. I think Tywin see's Stannis's Pragmatism, Harshness, & his willingness to see almost any means justify his end and is projecting onto Stannis, essentially I think Tywin sees himself in an enemy, and that scares him. Stannis and Tywin always struck me as very alike, albeit Stannis lacks Tywin's needless cruelty, and has a far Stronger sense of Justice, and unlike Tywin he has lines he's not willing to cross, he's also more of a Soldier. Nonetheless Stannis's code of honor is one he shaped himself, as opposed to one common to Westerosi sensibilities, this is probably why Stannis seems outwardly rigid when in reality he'd very flexible, the only ethics Stannis abides by are the ones he set for himself, no more and no less. Stannis is the only other person I think who's also willing to wipe out entire houses & bloodlines both root & stem.

[@CosmicCorviknight]

I always found the "No weirwoods in the south" thing particularly funny because literally in this exact same book in a Catelyn chapter there's that slender weirwood in Riverrun with a sad carved face. It's not a major issue as you can easily ignore it, but you'd think George or the publisher might have noticed that (or amended it in later publications of the book)

[@invasorgabe714]

I love that Preston praises how Jon Arryn's murder mystery is so well planned and then the drafts at the libraryshow how George had an entirely different plan. 😂

[@jonathonjohnson1227]

I’d have to say, the books intent of “winter is coming” is absolutely as you mentioned from his earlier outing as a writer. The Stark words are absolutely “let’s cut the bullshit and get to what’s important” the community, the preservation of people, the preservation of history. I think Ned despised war, but had to play ball in the world he was a huge player in. He’d love just pulling in a harvest and raising his kids, hates going south and playing the game.

[@LincolnMaurice]

31:00 I wonder if people perceive Ned as pious because they can't distinguish piety from stoicism? The kids all thinking him pious would be learnt from Cat's projection onto him

[@TheKrostiman]

Doesn’t Robb stark also change his entire personality when he needs to act like the lord? Bran picks up on that for both Ned and Robb.

[@bilis2866]

Thats how Ned chooses to present himself, Lord Stark

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

'How long he waited in the quiet of the godswood, he could not say. It was peaceful here. The thick walls shut out the clamor of the castle, and he could hear birds singing, the murmur of crickets, leaves rustling in a gentle wind. The heart tree was an oak, brown and faceless, yet Ned Stark still felt the presence of his gods. His leg did not seem to hurt so much.' - GOT: pg. 467-468 A little pious maybe...

[@tychoclavius4818]

He's not stoic tho. She sees the grief leave his face to make place for joy when she tells him Roberts coming. He has and shows these emotions, or at least to her. Bran only perceives Ned as stoic when he puts on the face of lord Stark instead of the face of daddy Ned, suggesting hes usually not stern an stoic. Jon argues for keeping the wolf pups because bran wants them, and perhaps he does so as well. Ned says yes for the same reason(s). Jon might just be giving Ned the argument he needs to convince Cat and others to be ok with it. Jon might very well be aware of this.

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

@@tychoclavius4818 That's right, he's not stoic. GRRM writes two main character types, that of summer and winter. Ned is a man of winter, much like Jon, Stannis, Tywin etc., Ned even notes 'Even now, he was a Stark of Winterfell, and his grief and his rage froze hard inside him.' - GOT: pg. 606 This is in contrast to summer characters, Jaime, Brandon, Robert etc. Ned is not stoic, he is just a winter character.

[@aleksandarnikolov3182]

Last time I was this early everyone still thought the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn.

[@rsandino]

lmao

[@LincolnMaurice]

Premature accusation can be a serious medical problem.

[@TheCronesEye]

😂 Clever! 👍🎉

[@hi_austin]

Got’em!

[@Lexxir]

But the lannisters did kill Jon Arryn?

[@BarryESchwartz]

Catelyn: Jon Arryn is dead. Ned: Did TMZ confirm?

[@richardtabor8686]

i like your "voice" interpretation of GRRM and Catelyn. Very interesting. ty for the content!

[@smith3696]

I think Ned spent a lot of time in the god's wood as a child and finds comfort there (think him and Lyanna fighting in Bran's green dream), so he's not preying so much as processing the stress of killing a person. People then assume he's religious.

[@theletterm5425]

I believe that was Benjen who was play fighting with Lyanna in Bran's vision. But your point still stands.

[@KaritKtana]

Weird you didn't mention the irony of Bran being in that heart tree! He is Cat's favorite child, she's always proud of him - but she actively tries to ignore the creepy tree eyes and sits with her back to it 😅

[@whereswilliam488]

Preston content being consistently made is so awesome

[@ulpisen]

I think Jon did convince Ned to keep the direwolves but it has nothing to do with the religious symbolism, rather by excluding himself from the count, he's making Ned feel guilty about Jon's situation, and by plucking on his heart strings, Ned is convinced to save the pups

[@peterv1054]

I don't think "Is the news certain?" means Ned is thinking the letter could be fake. In this world, information travells slowly and with lots of error. He doesn't know where Catelyn got the info from. It could just have been a rumour.

[@WaywardWhiteWalker]

Ned wipes the blood off into the pool by the Weirwood. The lore or religion requires him to do this. This in turn is feeding the Weir and giving the dead's essence (I'll call it) to the Weir transferring the deceased knowledge to the occupants of the Weir. Blood has power.

[@theletterm5425]

I think another reason why Ned doesn't seem overly religious when we read his POV is that for almost the entirety that we are in his head, he is in King's Landing. The Old Gods are very much tied to the North. What little we see of Ned in the North he very much does seem like a follower of the Old Gods (following the Old Ways in Gared's execution, instructing Bran in Old Ways teachings, retreating to the Godswoods). How exactly would somebody who follows the Old Gods display his religiosity while in a southron city? The Old Gods have no power there. I think this might be contributing to our bias of seeing Ned as not all that religious.

[@jj947]

Only two chapters in and I’m already loving this series. Great job Preston

[@Mj_Jetson]

"There was small love between him and the queen's family, Catelyn knew. The Lannisters of Casterly Rock had come late to Robert's cause, when victory was all but certain, and he had never forgiven them." A little weird that this is the sin held against the Lannisters here? Cuz isn't the deaths of Rhaegar's children the bigger issue for Ned? File this under 'real Ned is a bit different from the other characters perception of Ned'?

[@Serch_YB27]

This is also what Cat thinks are Ned reasons, so she might just be misreading him, as most of the chapter stablihes

[@DrZaius3141]

With regards to Cat seeing Ned as religious: People tend to think of people with differing religions as complete zealots or at least more inclined to the more radical aspects of said religion than they actually are. Many Christians these days see a hijab and associate it with religiosity eventhough it's more of a cultural signifier (just like different cultures prefer covering up different parts of the body, completely regardless of religion).

[@bilis2866]

Every character sees Ned as this righteous and honorable guy, that's how he presents himself to others, but we can see inside him so we know hes more relax about it

[@umwha]

I'm not sure about the hijab being cultural rather than religion - perhaps it depends where you are. In a multicultural area of england, the only people who veil to any extent are Muslims - no non Muslims veil that I know of.

[@niallotoole9720]

That may well be true, but those English Muslims aren't necessarily very devout and metropolitan English Muslims who don't wear the hijab aren't necessarily impious in their faith. It's a signifier of belonging to a Muslim culture as much as an external expression of internal beliefs.

[@umwha]

@@niallotoole9720 I think its splitting hairs to say that someone is signifying they follow the Muslim culture rather than following the Muslim faith. Culture and faith are both sets of values beliefs and practices. Cultural beliefs and practises derive from faith, folklore and religious ideas where the adherant is conscious of that or not.

[@annieosenbaugh7218]

I think Ned allows them to keep the direwolves because of what it costs Jon to exclude himself from his “true born” children. He is moved by his selflessness and love for Bran- this is why he asks “You want no pup for yourself, Jon?” before conceding to Robb and Bran.

[@Silver_Girl178]

She doesn't know him very well, or, at least, she doesn't trust what she thinks she knows about him. She hasn't ever since she came to Winterfell to find that he already had his bastard there.

[@Sannspoof]

I think Catelyn saying Valyrian steel swords are 400 years old is just dating them to the last known provenance. Ice could be thousands of years old, but she KNOWS it's 400 years old; which is old enough to prove a point about an old-ass sword. I agree it's surprising to see Ice has only been with the Starks that long though, my memory conflated Ice the ancestral sword and Ice the Valyrian steel sword.

[@ethankendall9499]

Marches in any country, denote an area that is bordered by enemies. The lords of those areas were known as Marquis.

[@openthemind1244]

Cat and Tyrion chapters are where GRRM is "cooking" or "in his bag" as the kids say. His best writing for sure.

[@davetrack2950]

Ned seems like a dad who hides from his family in the garage. He goes to the heart tee because nobody will bother him there. Hilariously, it makes them all think he’s religious.

[@jacobenke7936]

Man Cave

[@memeaficionado]

Only instance of faith of the 7 vs old gods i can think of is Jon after Janos shows up. It always seemed very strange to me how the septon at the wall made a comment about Jon "refusing" to swear his oath in the sept like usual, instead doing it at the weirwood grove. Youd think that anybody whos been on the wall for a while, even a septon, would have a less negative view of the old gods.

[@memeaficionado]

Like the north are the only people who still kinda give a bit of respect to the wall, and most northerners keep the old gods. Very odd to me

[@nilen435]

When speaking of Starks house words, I always thought the house words or house banners of nearly every house seemed abit to strange in that they are soo non-religious. Its almost only Stannis that have a religious motto and a religious motive on his banner. (when he changed it too Rhllor). You can always look historically where kings mottos and banners had a great deal of religious motive. If they where very religious or just used it for power is probalby more mixed :)

[@AEDVINtus]

The Children of the Forest are pretty much a direct reference to Robert E Howard. He wrote a story about 'Bran' Mak Morn fighting the Children of the Forest, which itself is seen by someone in the present day warging into the mind of his ancestor.

[@FlorianMark]

What is the name of the story?

[@AEDVINtus]

@@FlorianMarksorry, it had been a while since I read it. It is actually a story called 'The Children of the Night', about a man warging into his ancestor called Aryara, and the Cult of Bran from that time period. They fight the children of the night in the story. It's incredibly similar to the children of the forest in asoiaf. But Howard also wrote a lot about Bran Mak Morn in other stories too.

[@Mj_Jetson]

Yeah I think there's a some worldbuilding and character backstory issues in AGoT, most evident with Ned and Tyrion. Ned's lack of southron ways; with Tyrion... did he live at court or Casterly Rock immediately prior to joining Robert's royal progress north? Cuz it kinda seems unclear... plus Tyrion and Jaime's ages during the Tysha incident are a little odd...

[@jacobenke7936]

Yeah, Jaime would have been a kingsguard at the time, so that bit makes no sense.

[@possessedchair8144]

1000 years of hummus lay on the floor, that's a lot of dipping

[@michaelstalkfleet6989]

The "First Men" worshiping "the Old Gods" is a Cthulhu reference, the First Men received telepathic communications from Cthulhu in their dreams, and the formed a secret cult to worship him. The weirwoods are Cthulhu, and Cthulhu is the Kraken, and in mythology the Kraken was an octopus/squid that was so large that it appeared to be an island with spikes on its back that looked like trees on its back. Which as all a God's Eye/ R'lyeh reference. And cythraul / cythreul means "devil, satan" in Welsh. and chwythellu means "to blast" and "to call"

[@Mj_Jetson]

Yeah the northern/southern religious differences seems a little like a dropped plot... I guess you could say that the northerners trashing Riverlands septs helped cause the sparrow movement... but how much of that was the Brave Companions' doing, and the northerners were just blamed for it? Mayyyybe moving forward in the story, it could amount to something. It would be realistic worldbuilding for elements of the Old Gods' religion to be preserved regionally in the Faith of the Seven (and for there to be much less uniformity in the Faith of the Seven in general). There's little elements of this hinted in the story, though they haven't amounted to very much yet: The Brotherhood Without Banners is associated with multiple Faiths, including an association with the Old Gods-y Ghost of High Heart and Beric's weirwood throne beneath the hollow hill. Some of Cregan's men remain in the Riverlands after the Dance, and they "revive and spread the worship of the old gods south of the Neck". Septon Moon (from Maegor's era) was a septon, but his Faith seems to have more of a Garth Greenhand vibe than anything Faith-of-the-Seven-y.

[@jasondamodred]

Love these chapters read-throughs! Please continue them

[@ashleyg2610]

Can you also mention Jorah being knighted and being known as ‘Jorah the Andal’ in Essos? Always bugged me

[@gokbay3057]

He is not the only (non-Manderly) Northern Knight. Ser Rodrik is the other big example. There are also a few Ironborn knights, even ones who do not follow the Seven. You can just get knighted for merit, it happens as it happened to Jorah (during the Greyjoy Rebellion iirc). As for being known as Andal that also is easily explained. The books say Dothraki know of Westeros as "Land of the Andals" and as such call every Westerosi Andal. It is quite a common thing historically. In a lot of languages the people who call themselves Hellenes are known as Greeks (after the City of Graea) and in other languages they are known as Yunan (after Ionia). Similarly people who know of themselves as Deutsch are called German in English but Alemand in French and Niemcy in Polish. Zhongguo, the Middle Kingdom/Central State, is called China after just one of its many historical dynasties and a short lived one at that (even if it is considered the first one to unify the nation). Stuff like that just happens in real life.

[@YungMonie007]

Jorah is a huge white hairy bearded man in full metal armour, who wears a bear on his clothing + shield.. the andals where from a place call andelos in essos, there are andal priests called the beard priests of norvos who wear clothing made from animal hair, forbidden to shave and have pet bears and love to train and fight. It could be a connection, or just from the dothraki perspective, is all white beefy men are andals, all weak cowardly men are milk men from quarth.. same as all redheads are irish logic. The Andals in westeros and andals in essos have distinct differences. Its hasn't been fully explored, but its been thousands of years, and cultures change.. we imagine the first men as primitive and savage like the moutain clans, but they had huge kingdoms, castles, banners, even the the Thenns beyond the wall, have carved out a kingdom, and there book description makes them out very different from the Wildings, and more like a ancient northern House lost beyond the wall. The andals in westeros adopted a lot of first men culture, and the westerosi adopted andal culture such as knights and steel armour. The main cultures we meet in essos act very differently to westerosi, they are mainly the free city people who where slaves to the valyerians, these people living in modern essos think westerosi are "backwards" swearing blood rights, house words. and behaving as if the sigils on there banners and armour and this somehow imbues them with honor. We don't actually meet any essos andal characters who define themselves as andals, perhaps its a very outdated term in essos, and the only person we meet from essos from that area is Aero Hoatah and you could describe him as very Jorah esque.

[@DavidWatts505]

Please do as many of these as possible they’re great

[@umwha]

11;51 - I read / or assumed that Ned building a sept and having his kids be raised in the Faith was a criteria of his betrothal to Catelyn. Or rather when Brandon was betrothed to Catelyn, it was agreed that their kids would be raised in the Faith. Yes the Starks have married lots of different families over the years, but not from the ruling house of another kingdom? It was said that in the Tournament of Harrenhal the high lords started marrying each other - so that was unusual, because lords usually marry their bannermen - houses within their realm, not generally across realms.

[@jacobenke7936]

It seems to be something that was decided in the, seemingly unnecessary, negotiations once Brandon was dead and the war was started. Cat thinks about Ned wedding her as custom decreed, but if that were the case no negotiation would have been necessary. Also, Ned allowing any of his children to be brought up following the Seven is a HUGE deal, given what his ancestors had spent thousands of years fighting. It makes no sense whatsoever, and most Northerners would have hated it. What it ends up looking like is that the Faith had some amount of influence over Jon A./Hoster. We know that the Faith cared nothing about the murders of Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon. The Rebellion seems to be as much about the consolidation of Andal power as it was about Brandon and Rickard, that was a convenient excuse to get the Northmen to do their fighting for them. We know that the Citadel had a hand in it, it's no great stretch to imagine the Faith did as well. You are exactly right about the marriages, and if you take it together with what Hoster had tried to do with Brynden and Lysa initially, it would have been six kingdoms against the Targaryens. Some of this will be made plain when we learn who told Brandon what had happened to Lyanna. If the answer is anyone but LF, the whole thing was set up by the Andals.

[@kellyannpatin3298]

I wonder, now that Preston is (at least twice) a parent, if he finds the idea of giving a 3yo a deadly wild animal as a pet especially funny/mortifying

[@monkeyboy4311]

This series of vids is GREAT. Hoping you put them in a Playlist for easy sharing/rewatching purposes. 🤞👍

[@Ryan-rm7cp]

Love these!

[@FlorianMark]

This is a great series. There is so much new things I don't caught by reading it the first few times.

[@Cr4nched]

Loving this series Preston

[@emarti3853]

I was eating hummus when you were reading Yeah Ice is a very old sword name. LML thinks it might have been Dawn since the sword is milk white Ned cleans the sword directly after the beheading. Should be a matter of hours, maybe the next day

[@jacobenke7936]

I'll disagree with the next day. When coming off of a mission, we were trained to clean our weapons as the very first thing we did, even before we ate or showered. It's a matter of discipline and readiness. Ned also does it because he'd just killed a man.

[@emarti3853]

@@jacobenke7936 exactly. I assumed it was directly after the beheading, tho there is something about it getting late last chapter and it's not that late this chapter. I also vaguely remember a GRRM interview about this chapter. He was gonna do months in between chapters, but then this one directly follows Bran's and messed it all up lol

[@HickoryBill]

When does ned begin his warding at the vale? From my recollection he goes there relatively late compared to other wards we see like maybe sansa or Robb’s age even. I always took it that he “grew up” in the north and then had his horizons broadened and flexibility increased from his time coming of age in the vale. I can’t recall any direct lines though so I might have the timeline a bit confused

[@jacobenke7936]

He was eight years old when he was sent to the Eyrie. He's more Andal than Northman. Building a sept in Winterfell is all the proof one requires, allowing his children to be raised in the Faith is just icing on the cake. The North has been fighting that for thousands of years, many times against the Arryns, Ned seemingly didn't learn history in the Eyrie.

[@thewingedserpent5823]

I think jon telling Ned that the direwolfs are a sign might have been more for the benefit of everybody else. Basically telling everybody who wanted to kill them that they were a sign so killing them would be bad giving Ned an out for keeping them, even if ned himself didn't believe that they were a sign

[@chrisrubin6445]

Cersei seemingly never used a wetnurse for her children, though that would have been seen as normal for Westerosi Queens.

[@gaghhuh2943]

In Bran chapter in dance with dragons we can see Ned praying "let them grow up as close as brothers" or something like that which means Ned definitely does pray at least sometimes and is at least somewhat religious. But maybe he just likes the quiet of the godswood and thats why he spends so much time there which makes him look religious

[@jacobenke7936]

Maybe he's trying to get away from Cat. It's the ASoIaF equivalent of his man cave.

[@gaghhuh2943]

@@jacobenke7936 I dont think hes such a boomer

[@jacobenke7936]

@@gaghhuh2943 You have a point about the brooding. Ned appears, from the outside, to be really introspective. I wish he thought about things we'd like to know, but I guess George can't give everything away so easily.

[@andrewvanhorne4359]

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to draw a distinction between religiosity and superstition, or even for that matter between religiosity and piety. Not everyone who goes to Church on Sundays is afraid to cross a black cat's path - in fact, I don't know anyone who is. Likewise, not everyone who prays the rosary is well-read on Church doctrine. These things express themselves in many ways, so grouping people as simply 'religious' or 'not religious' seems reductive.

[@snake3516]

a thousand years of hummus

[@LincolnMaurice]

3 acres is roughly half an average suburban block. Doesn't sound that large. Small, if anything, given its purpose of growing Redwood trees.

[@jacobenke7936]

Remember that this is inside a castle. Dedicating that much space in an enclosed area to forest is extreme luxury. We sometimes forget how massive Winterfell is because the show never demonstrated it. It dwarfs any castle in Westeros in terms of area. Harrenhall has higher/stronger walls, but it's not bigger.

[@joefo458]

Doesn’t Ned’s “my words couldn’t reach him” give strong evidence that Gared didn’t even try to make a case or explain what he had seen and therefore Ned is not unjustly killing him based on the evidence he can obtain. He tried. He asked. Nothing. All he knows is this is an oath breaker offering no justification or exculpation.

[@tofonofo4606]

ALRIGHT LETS GOOOOOOOOO! over Catelyn.

[@unculturedg4mer310]

Why do you assume that Catelyn is right about ned not believing in signs, like sure she's his wife but there's nothing to indicate that cat is right about that. But Jon plays to the idea that he does believe in signs and we have tangible evidence that that could be the case, granted we don't know what's going on in his head ATM. And maybe he does just do it because his son's like the wolves but it's just weird to take Cat's opinion as fact when Jon's opinion is immediately followed up by evidence in the text.

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

A spouse knows someone much, much better than a child.

[@unculturedg4mer310]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin its not so much about Jon knowing Ned better I'm just saying the context is: Jon thinks Ned heeds the logic, and weather or not that influences Ned's decision his decision still changes. Catelyn says he doesn't believe in signs yet one takes her word over Jon's without evidence. Yes Catelyn is his wife but I'd say that only makes it just as plausible she is correct not more plausible. Just saying I think they jury is out on weather Ned actually is superstitious or not. Plenty of people have been married for decades and don't actually know all that much about their partner. Granted by all accounts Ned and Cat have an exceptionally good marriage all things considered but it is still an arranged marriage and you said yourself that you think she is wrong about how religious he is. So I guess im just confused which it is, does she know him that well or not.

[@seniorbunk1183]

I'd build Cat a sept too if I came home with a bastard.

[@gokbay3057]

23:20 I say once again as others did before, Gared committed the crime, no prison system exists, him being executed was completely in the right. The Others do not justify him especially since he deserted and ran away rather than inform the Watch. He could have went to Castle Black and warned Jeor and others and simply refused to go back north of the Wall if they told him to do. If they killed him then sure you could have called it unjust but Ned lawfully executing a man who committed a crime (and not an act of passion either, there is no way he went from Wall to Winterfell in a day he had so much time to think the decision over). You could say "Capital punishment is wrong" which is a defendable moral opinion one can have, I agree in the real world but it doesn't really add anything in the discussion of a Medieval Fantasy World. You are just repeating a phrase not adding any meaningful commentary.

[@chrisrubin6445]

how about "The Nights Watch existing is wrong, and therefore any escape from it is Just" "Law" is NOT "Justice" my friend! Fuedalism itself is unjust!

[@jacobenke7936]

@@chrisrubin6445 Agree or disagree, the system has been in place in Westeros for a very long time. It's not like the Nazis or Communism, which were quick onset. The Watch is a vital necessity for the North, and so Northmen have to take it seriously. We must never make the mistake of imposing our own morality upon a people who have no historical or contemporary example of something better that doesn't descend into chaos. Gared deserted, and the punishment is death. He said the words. The truth is that Ned did exactly what he should have done, even discussing the matter with Benjen, who saw no wrong in it. Is it unfair? Debatable, we don't know why Gared was on the Wall in the first place. As the OP pointed out, there are no long-term prisons in Westeros. We do know what average people thought of Stark rule from what is said to Bran and co. on their way to the Wall. People felt pretty safe, in general. By contrast, there are people in our own society who don't, and they are far more protected.

[@chrisrubin6445]

@@jacobenke7936 Agree: the system has been in place in Westeros for a very long time. Disagree: The Watch is a vital necessity...

[@michaelstalkfleet6989]

Tuilighe (sounds like "Tully") means "bastard" in Gaelic. And Ned married Ashara at the Wolf's Den, and he was still married to her when he married Catelyn, so all the Tully kids are the bastards, not Jon. And Sweetrobin is actually Petyr's kid , not Jon Arryn's, so he is a bastard too.

[@jclaburn]

Almost time for new chapters to analyze! 'Winds of Winter' seems to be finally coming June 7, 2024 (and elsewise in the following month)! Thanks again for another great video, Preston. :) Check out George's post on March 11, entitled 'Words of Wisdom' (Winds of Winter?), which appears to be full of hidden clues announcing the release of Winds, mirroring his King Kong is dead photo cryptically announcing the release of Dance on 27 April 2011. These include his first ever status update "dreaming", a Faulkner quote featured about the lonely process of a DREAM (which is about a writer turning an idea into a book), and a big Blue Rose! He has used the Blue Rose a couple of times before, but it always seems to be his hidden clue he has made big progress on Winds (without raising the stakes for him or inviting hecklers). The last time he used it is right before he left on his trip to England to meet with his English publisher about Winds of Winter. He used the King Kong photo the same way for Dance, posting a smaller version of it every time there was progress on Dance, and the full sized version when he was announcing in code that it was done. It's now four months since he met with his UK publisher, which was exactly when he published the big King Kong post last time. It appears that history has repeated itself. He struggled nightmarishly through ten months last year to write and finish the hardest chapters he had postponed until very last to write: the Winds equivalents of the Red Wedding (and there should be several of them). He finally finished them in late October and then went right to England and met with his publisher on or about November 11, 2023. It was agreed he would spend 120 days on rewrites base on his editor's notes. He was at the nadir of stress over working on them January 31, 2023 when he posted his depressing year post. George went unusually Blog-silent (and was seen or interviewed no where) for just about the next 40 days until he posted his 11 March 2024 announcement--in coded from as is his way--that the text, after responding to all final editor notes and suggestions, is finished! It was less than three months the last time until it went to print on 12 July 2024. The equivalent timing would be May 27th, I believe, but we know George loves symbolic numbers. Sixth book of seven in the series: 6.07. Let's get ready to rumble!!! (We're debating this and putting up our final 'Winds of Winter' theories over on the Quora Space I started last May in anticipation of Winds coming out this year, "A Theory of Ice and Fire." We grown to 1,000,000 views there a month. Everything is in Q&A format with comments and comments on comments, etc. No flamers allowed. We give a lot of shout outs and discussion over there as well to Preston, David Lightbringer, the Dragon Demands, and other KZbin streamers videos and theories.)

[@YungMonie007]

You Sweet Summer child.. The long night is already upon us.

[@leolei3121]

This is so delusional its not even funny... George already posted the published date for Dance weeks before the King Kong post so it really wasn't cryptic at all at that point.

[@jclaburn]

@@leolei3121 Which King Kong post? He posted a small photo of King Kong whenever he had positive news for Dance before and after. I am talking about the one post with just an oversized King Kong. Other experts have said that was the first notification that the text of if was actually done completely. Also, the reason I was watching is that other experts said that when he met with his UK publishers on or about Nov 11 last year, that's what he did about six months before Dance came out. We shouldn't overreact, but we should be watching for any cryptic posts four months later, that would be the bomb. Which is what happened last week!!!!

[@FlorianMark]

​@@jclaburn copium. If he finished Winds he would say so. 100% it is not coming this year.

[@jclaburn]

@@FlorianMark This is George Martin. Everything real has to be three episodes of foreshadowing, starting with the most opaque, before it actually happens. It is about to happen...

[@leaf.onthewind]

I enjoy these, but I feel like they would benefit from being a bit more scripted and/or edited - not necessarily to the level of the Dance of the Dragons series, but maybe to get your ideas and thoughts clearer.

[@Serch_YB27]

I think while WE the readers know Garrett's dead was unjust, to the eyes of Ned it mught be just. Most ppl would see him as crazy (as even Ned notes) and he abandons his oath to the watch; also the aspect that as many ppl arent caught in these situations they need to make an example of him.

[@jacobenke7936]

This is the world they live in, and when we try to impose our morality or omniscience on them, it's entirely unjustified. The facts are that Gared deserted, and the penalty for that is death.

[@ThailandOutsider]

I'd suggest that most that follow the old gods don't tend to be "religious" in the same way we'd expect a catholic to be. Also him building her a sept could be about his guilt over Jon and not being the brother she was ment to marry so it was kind of an olive branch or like buying flowers when fucked up 😅

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@KTChamberlain]

One question I have regarding Weirwood trees is, do the faces on the trees always face south? Sounds like an inverse to the moss-on-the-northside myth.

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

Maybe we should use the anime rule: Add 2-3 years to every child character.

[@kyleholmes8230]

Will was on the wall for 4 years, watched an Other kill waymar and his first thought was to grab the shattered sword as proof and return to the wall to warm everyone. yet Gerrod, who stayed with the horses and never saw the Others, and had been on the wall for 40 years, rode south and scaled the wall and was still babbling nonsense over a month later? Something doesn't add up.

[@avatarname0008]

Ya it's kind of silly

[@mitchellhouser1572]

These are good points

[@matt_9112]

On the wax/seals: There are no Checkov's guns in Martin's writting. With the amount of "seeds" planted, more like "jack all's guns", since that's were most go (which is totally fine). Maybe just a personal obsession of Martin's with seals and wax. Even the red wedding isn't an example of a Checkov's gun, since this gun do be hanging in the background, whereas we were "looking down the barrel" of the gun for several Cat chapters, with anything else being in the background. Which is an AAA example of subversion of tropes/expectations. Cat made it sooooo clear, Rob was sooooo well set-up to be the young hero prince, noone expected it to actually happen, yet it made perfect sense.

[@colincnote2120]

I like to think that a lot of the time when Neds in winterfell hes basically consplaying as Branden. Also I read him going to the godswood more as him meditating after he just murdered someone and less a religous exercise

[@OneOnOne1162]

6:47 - I'd also point out that Davos' religiosity is fundamentally different from Catelyn's based on their respective classes. Catelyn's religiosity is clearly based in being taught the theology of the Seven whereas Davos' religiosity is almost closer to superstition. It's more... practical, almost.

[@mattfox2716]

The one hang up I have on you saying Ned isn’t as religious as he is made out to be is that he is bringing in multiple religions. He clearly has respect for this universes series of faiths. Is he a fundamentalist might be a better debate, but clearly he is religious.

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

He’s no atheist, but he thinks about his gods very rarely and very briefly- I think it’s three times. Once to think “thanks the gods for Lord Hoster.” Once to say “gods forgive me.” And the most religious of the bunch is him thinking his gods were watching him with Cersei.

[@johnp2921]

There's a bit of old god vs new god conflict at the wall.

[@MrPhbahia]

this is PJ’s ULTIMATE SERIES

[@johnnytakisawa]

If winds of winter doesn't come out soon it's gonna be a bloodbath for the country....

[@user-si7ig6ul7l]

It would be great timing consider 3 body problem is almost out and would be a massive F U to D&D

[@jokerdblackbro]

winds or literally death simple as.

[@conorgormley4990]

Not sure why PJ thinks Ned isn't religious, I always took a completely different reading, the old gods with their lack of priests and ceremonies seem to be a much more personal religion and you see that in the people who are old gods believers in the story, even in Eddard XII there's a passage about Ned feeling the presence of his gods in the kings landing godswood and that brings him relief, sure he's not a zealot but I wouldn't go as far as to say that Ned isn't religious at all

[@elizabethdavis8264]

I don't see the religious thing as a contradiction. It comes across as just a different expression of belief. Some people go to church and pray and intentionally think about god and what god might want them to do. Other's spirituality is more intuitive and linked to action and meditation. The Ned and Cat relationship captures the respect between people with these veiwpoints beautifully.

[@Georgious]

These readings are a great idea!

[@danielbasich2729]

Let’s go!

[@TheKrostiman]

Ned was such a boring grey long faced dude that everyone just assumed that he was a fantasy/sci fi ultra Mormon

[@jacobenke7936]

I always saw Ned as withdrawn. He's seen the world outside of Winterfell, and wants no part in it. He lacks the balls to say so.

[@nickm8425]

A thousand years of Hummus!

[@tajniak4335]

Kinda funny reading this first mention of Lysa Arryn. Ned and Cat thinking of her as grieving widow needing a hug. Neither of them ever realized Lysa at this point was an insane, paranoid bitch who murdered her husband.

[@KaritKtana]

I think the Valyrian Ice's age is 400 years on purpose because that's when Aenar Targaryen established himself in Dragonstone, no? I think the Targs traded with Westerosi families and sold them Valyrian steel, and major houses were quick to buy. Targs also had the exclusive "insider trading" secret of its steel's value rising pretty soon... I did find it confusing upon first read that the name stays the same but not the sword. But considering the possible Ice v Dawn relationship, I think we'll learn more near the end of the story

[@gwogan]

Ned is spiritual not religious.

[@savanahwulff6263]

My personal headcannon for all of the retcons and inconsistencies is that they are all Time Traveling Bran lol

[@TraciPeteyforlife]

I've always liked Ned, I just wish. He hadn't been done so dirty. I would have liked to see. Him stick around longer for other plot lines.

[@bastianschrderlarsen6059]

Everyone talks about the veracity of seals, but no one talks about the veracity of sealions. Gylbert King!

[@shinjinobrave]

Your three-year-old couldn't handle a direwolf? Sounds like a skill issue Preston.

[@ceilingfanenthusiast6041]

08:58 Hey Preston, just calling in to say that Ireland is not very catholic nowadays. In the past 30 years Catholicism has died here imo. The youth are atheist, and more middle-aged people are atheist than not imo. Ireland was near fundamentalist 80 years ago and the Catholic church has thoroughly abused Ireland and it's citizens, especially women. At the same time, small towns are rapidly dissolving now, partially due to the death of parish (the locale of a church) identity. Yeah. That's the religious situation in Ireland currently. Just a nitpick and a topic I personally find interesting.

[@TriuneWorshipper]

For being raised as a Catholic George knows nothing about it. Another point to Tolkien 😂

[@humzakhalid7902]

19:20 actually george is pretty accurate about the way children were seen and dealt with as a part of society back in the early ages...the concept of childhood didnt exist before the 1700s and that too was only followed in the U.K and british empire, the rest of the world took even longer...once a child could walk and talk and understand and were capable of work they were treated just like any other individual according to their social standing...so if they were born in a working class family they were expected to do all the work any adult could do...there was no concept of things a child shouldnt do that an adult can...childhood as a separate time of life a stage where they needed to be taught and schooled and treated more delicately and not expected to work as hard as any adult was established in the late 1700 and up til the 1800s child labor laws in the u.k were being fought for to be enforced as a norm in society

[@iateyursandwiches]

20:20 person with expertise in child development here. Age 3 going on 4 is very much on the latest one is expected to be potty trained. Just saying

[@theletterm5425]

I think the discrepancy between Ned being perceived as religious versus him in fact being not very religious can be explained quite easily. The people who perceive Ned as this deeply religious person are who? His wife and children. His wife who has no other connection to the Old Gods other than her northerner husband. And his children to whom Ned was likely the main teacher of the Old Ways (as seen in Bran I). To *them* he is the most religious person in the religion of the Old Gods. There are no priests in this religion. Maesters don't believe it. There are no sacred texts that we know of. It's a religion passed down through oral tradition and cultural practice. All of which Ned embodies. But he is also versed in the Faith and is open to new influences. I think it's definitely done on purpose by George. The Old Ways being slowly forgotten. Which likely correlates with the return of the Others. Ned's worries about borken promises being (at least symbolically) about the broken promises between men and the Children. The promises of the Pact.

[@parastroika2393]

I think the reason that there isn't more of a conflict between the Faith of the Seven and the Old Gods is because Westeros is (nominally) unified under a single monarch. Since everyone is legally bound to maintaining and upholding the King's Peace it doesn't make religious tolerance that much of a contentious issue. We never hear of people agitating for religious persecution of others or being punished for heresy. Like how in the pre-Christian Roman Empire you could worship whatever God(s) you wanted as long as you paid the required deference to the Imperial Cult.

[@smack80]

Preston pretending to be hispanic to get a fellowship? (Just kidding)

[@tomatotamale4546]

no fake letters - until the fanfic?

[@manband20]

"Ned, Rickon is only a child." "Rickon won't be a child forever, and the Democrats are coming. Give him his AR-15 and let the boy become a man." "Ned I want a divorce."

[@FlorianMark]

Land of the free 😂

[@manband20]

@@FlorianMark Their way is the Old Way. Don't tread on the First Men.

[@jswagaudio]

Ned seems to be the type to carry out religious practices just to keep up appearances

[@minimumviableplayer1402]

I don't think there needs to be fake letters necessarily, what we hear consistently is wrong gossip and innacurate news.

[@vasilicaurmulita8406]

Maybe Ned built the sept for himself.

[@capgangchannel6309]

There is actually a fake letter in the series. In a clash of kings Petyr baelish, tyrion , cersei and the rest of the small council decide the make a letter about how shireen baratheon is not actually stannis his daughter but patchfaces. This letter is then spread all throughout the seven kingdoms.