Wheel of Time Season 2 Ep. 5 with Amber from Road to Tar Valon

I sit down with Amber from Road to Tar Valon to talk about Wheel of Time Season 2, episodes 5
Amber's channel (Road to Tar Valon):
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The Wheel of Time is an American high fantasy television series developed by Rafe Judkins for Amazon Prime Video. The series is based on the novel series of the same name by Robert Jordan with Brandon Sanderson.
The first season, consisting of eight episodes, premiered on Prime Video on November 19, 2021, with the first three episodes released immediately and the remaining five on a weekly basis after that, culminating in the season finale on December 24, 2021. The series was renewed for a second season in May 2021, before the series premiered, which premiered on September 1, 2023. In July 2022, ahead of the second-season premiere, the series was renewed for a third season.
The Wheel of Time follows Moiraine, a member of the Aes Sedai, a powerful organization of women who can channel the One Power. With her Warder, Lan, she seeks a group of five young villagers from the secluded Two Rivers region of Andor following an attack on their village, believing one of them is the reincarnation of the Dragon, an extremely powerful channeller who broke the world. The Dragon Reborn is prophesied to either save the world from a primordial evil known as the Dark One, or break it once more.[1][2][3]
#wheeloftime

[@positivitize]

shes a brilliant reader and a fantastic communicator. Way to avoid Spoilers! You were dodging raindrops!

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

I hope so cuz she was all over the place with spoilers in the episode four discussion. I had to stop listening.

[@magister343]

Red Ajah-magical law enforcement, mostly focused on restraining male channelers but also some female channelers who get out of control. Most of them are man-hating lesbians, and the exceptions keep their love of men secret to avoid a social stigma among their sisters. This ajah has a rule against taking any warders. Green Ajah- the warrior ajah, focused on preparing for the last battle. They have a very top down hierarchical leadership structure based on other military ranks. They love men. They are the only ajah that allows taking more than one warder, placing no limits on the number allowed, but a majority of green sisters still just have one. Most Aes Sedai never marry, but Green sisters with only one warder are very likely to marry him. Some have sexual relationships with multiple warders, but not all who have multiple warders are sexual with any of them. Some may marry one warder but have other warders with whom they are purely platonic. Only a couple green sisters are rumored to have actually married multiple warders. Blue Ajah- seekers after causes. They all tend to get obsessed with some sort of secret mission to save the world, but don't seem talk with each other much about each individual mission. They tend to do the most spy craft and subterfuge. All ajah's have an Eyes and Ears network, but the Blue Ajah's is the most extensive. Yellow Ajah- healers and restorers. Mostly focused on healing humans but some focus more of fixing objects or trying to heal the world Grey Ajah- mediators, diplomats. Perhaps the most common to be sent as advisors to kings and queens, although sisters of other ajahs to that too. White Ajah- philosophers, logicians, mathematicians. They rarely leave the White Tower and almost never take any warders, as it is not seen as helpful for their pursuits. They have a reputation for being cold and emotionless. Brown Ajah - librarians, basically. This would be your paperwork focused ajah, but more to do with recording histories than product warranties.

[@phantiasmic]

Just a note that Lanfear and the sealing the womans mouth part, it's stated and remember Lanfear is thousands of years old, her experience and knowledge (same as Ishamael) is FAR beyond what people have in the world at the time they come back into play. What Aes'sedai do and know currently compared to the Forsaken is childs play.

[@arosa_mg]

I find it very amusing how Preston sometimes thinks he’s got it all figured out, but oh, he is so wrong. Lol. He is actually in for some big surprises.

[@razeric]

Carmine does not look what I imagined him.

[@roadtotarvalon]

💅

[@ener11454]

If you pause the show and go into the x-ray it gives a little description of where each scene is. Maybe not the greatest way to track anything in a first watch but it can be helpful to go back to.

[@GuttedAU]

That is pretty damn cool

[@Finnssssss]

In general so far when Ishy is talking to someone in The dream/TAR there are little glitches you can pick out if you're watching carefully. Lanfear's give away is whether her hair is short or long.

[@magister343]

How does that work for the hypothetical viewers who rely on torrents instead of the official streaming platform?

[@gokbay3057]

@@magister343 The viewers who don't make them money? Like it is kinda weird to expect them to consider the viewing experience of people who pirate their show. I am not really against pirating, I have digitally pirated stuff quite often but like the idea of catering to the pirating audience is so weird to me. Pirating is no way near as serious as stealing but that idea is like not only letting someone steal something but also assist them so they have an easier time stealing from you. Why the hell would anyone do that?

[@liberTvalance]

People misstate Mat's arc. People that say he was boring and only got good later are missing the point of the journey. He was constantly helping others even while he was terribly sick from the dagger. Once healed it created what used to be called a character arc. People are saying Mat didn't have a story until later books to justify the show just absolutely destroying his story. Screw these writers.

[@TheDelinear]

I'd never heard that before - for me Matt's story was always the part I looked forward to, even from the beginning. I do think you're being unfair on the writers though. Circumstances beyond their control screwed the Matt story up, and I think they made some interesting choices to course correct. Also I feel Matt, more than any other character, has so much of his arc happen in his head and that's incredibly difficult to transcribe to screen without doing some kind of cheesy internal monologue.

[@danscantland8066]

A couple thoughts: First, the map thing really makes you appreciate how effective the game of thrones intro is. Second: They are making a dragonlance show. I dont remember any of the details, but it was announced

[@stephanlindebner7480]

Doesn’t Amazon have a map for literally every scene?

[@cajum24]

It's so interesting hearing preston in the dark about this show but at the same time you just want him to understand the significance of everything that's happening haha

[@SomethingImpromptu]

I do just want to point out- I’m also a show-only watcher (I am curious to give the books another go, but they didn’t grab me prior to watching the show), but because I introduced the show to someone else, I’ve been rewatching season 1 with them in between the new episodes, & I highly recommend Preston goes back & rewatches it. Partly because it just (at least IMO & the opinion of the other person in rewatching with) seems considerably better when you go into it knowing some of what you have learned by now about the characters & world & magick system & so on- there’s a lot that’s subtly introduced or foreshadowed early on that you appreciate much more the second time). But also, because I had COMPLETELY forgotten so much of the first season in the year since I watched it, & it sounds like the same has occurred for Preston. For example, the dream communication is actually very well established throughout season 1. Early on, you have main characters emphasizing the power & importance of dreams, you have meaningful or prophetic dreams, dreams where the Dark One is reaching out to all of the 4-5 possible Dragons… So when Selene/Lanfear is introduced & it’s explained that she can chase people down or interact with them through dreams like Freddy Krueger, that that’s the space where she’s most powerful (which it’s worth noting is also explicitly stated near the start of season 2), there’s actually a good bit of groundwork laid, & I consequently had no trouble understanding what was happening there. A lot of other question Preston has brought up or shown confusion around are also explored much more thoroughly in season 1 than I remembered- it’s kind of blown me away to go back & see just how much they packed into each episode that I missed or thought nothing of the first time through. I think elements like the Trollocs had me dismissing the series early on, because it felt more like a very morally black & white, Tolkien-esque world, & a Marvel-movie-like CGI clusterf*** of identical baddies swarming & getting killed starting out, especially coming off of GOT & House of the Dragon… But perhaps that led me to glaze over & minimize some other aspects, or not to absorb some of the worldbuilding, because going back now with familiarity, there’s a lot I’m really appreciating, & the reminder about so many little plot points & character relationships & stuff that I completely had forgotten by the start of season 2 has really helped get me back up to speed & has made me appreciate this season all the more for it. I suspect there’s just too much detail there to retain between seasons when they’re a year apart. Lan’s backstory, how the hell Mat ended up in Liandrin’s prison- there was a LOT that I had completely lost, so if you’re feeling confused I really recommend it. Also, a lot of the motivations specifically are explained at various points. The false Dragon, Lanfear/Selene, Liandrin- it’s pretty clear what all of them want. Just, again, it’s easy to forget if it was explained season 1 & you watched that ages ago. Maybe they should remind more actively in each season (though I think that could get annoying & heavy handed for anyone who is watching multiple seasons straight through in a shorter timespan), but it’s all there. It may be left ambiguous for now exactly what their expressed intentions MEAN (like what does “bind the world” or “break the world” mean, why are the Dark One’s minions trying to get the Dragon to him- is it to win the Dragon over to the dark or to kill them?)… But I think that ambiguity is intentional & presumably that stuff will become clear. But also, I really recommend watching Foundation. It’s been great.

[@jaysemitchells497]

I don't know how much freetime you have Preston but the channel unravelling the pattern has incredible insight into the episodes from a non-spoilery perspective

[@clint4464]

I need Chad Summerchild as the Dragon Reborn

[@NoFoCuS]

What a great guest!

[@NukerOfFace]

Really love these talks and as an illiterate, I'm loving the wheel of time series.

[@ryanratchford2530]

I think they did say what the Horn does in the show. Episode 8 of Season 1.

[@arosa_mg]

That's right. In that episode they say it's for The Dragon to blow at the Last Battle. Also, in season 2 episode 1 or 2 they say it's to bring an army of the dead. But of course later they also say it doesn't exist and it's just q population control mechanism. The show is actually using unreliable narrators so, you never really know until you know.

[@andrayellowpenguin]

They did explain about Tel'aran'rhiod, Moraine explains it to Rand, she tells him that Lanfear is really strong in dreams and all that... just very quickly... blink and you miss it

[@mwill8248]

About the slog, book 10: "Crossroads of Twilight" is just a bad book, it's the only really bad book in the series. In Books 7-10 you basically get a total of 2-2.5 good books, in the form of about 4-5 halves of good books split out amongst them and the other parts are kind of boring. It's well worth getting through or skimming to get to the last 4 books, which are good (a lot of its great) again.

[@conordempsey8854]

Totally agree. Crossroads of Twilight was a bit of a drag but I think crown of swords is too good to be considered in the slog and PoD / WH aren't as bad as all that

[@mwill8248]

I can see that, Crown of Swords isn't as good as books 4-6 but it's pretty good. PoD and WH both have like a somewhat boring half and really good half to each. Didn't regret reading either. @@conordempsey8854

[@shutit8949]

I forgot how bad crossroads was until now. skipping entire Elayne and perrin chapters was the only way Ive made it through that book.

[@conordempsey8854]

@@shutit8949 pregnant Elayne thinks she's invincible and Perrin mopes about?

[@mwill8248]

I think you just summarized those chapters pretty well, but let's not spoil things. @@conordempsey8854

[@anatandyaniv]

would love a dragonlance adaptation :D

[@delo77]

Yes!!😂

[@Piperdogloveshats]

I had no idea the tower was supposed to be empty

[@cbob213]

Too many people looking for the dragon???? Really Preston. It was right there. They were CHASING the dragon!!!

[@Cr4nched]

As a non book reader I'm really enjoying the series. Love Rafe Judkins ♥️ you all need to watch season 11 of the show Survivor. Rafe was a contestant 😎

[@thedanielhicks]

I like that Preston is showing a bit more humility in this episode; he actually defers to Amber a couple times and admits he doesn't know how the series goes. Still shits on the series without having read it.

[@fleshbhones]

I never thought I'd read the WoT books, but given how long Winds is taking, I think it might be time

[@mortimersnead5821]

Cars driving through flooded downtown streets would establish that you're in Miami.

[@alananimus9145]

There's map's for the show.

[@SilverScale.]

I'm curious how the Aes Sedai determine what makes a "false" dragon. I mean, I know they figured out it's Rand, but how did they know the rest of them were false?

[@gokbay3057]

In the books there are prophercies and stuff about the Dragon Reborn. And basically, the Aes Sedai mostly default to treating any self declared Dragon Reborn as a False Dragon and Rand mostly avoids that via fulfilling the prophercies (it helps that early on pretty much only Moiraine and Siuan (and Verin) are aware of him as far as Aes Sedai go, who generally have already figured out he is the real one until he does a big public display that pretty much convinces the vast majority of people that he is legit (Elaida also knew of him before but I am pretty sure she didn't know he was a channeler, thought she almost certainly speculated it). With the False Dragons they usually try to fulfill some of the more obvious prophercies but get stopped before they can and I presume the Aes Sedai consider the fact that they won as proof that the person in question was a False Dragon. There is a mention of trials for male channelers and that it is technically not allowed to gentle male channelers on the field. This always seemed weird to me as the point of the trial can't be whether or not they channel. If they didn't channel shielding and stilling/gentling wouldn't do anything to the man in question. So the proof is just that whether or not they can administer the punishment in the first place. On later thoughts I have realized that this trial might in fact be a mechanism the Aes Sedai have intended to make sure that they don't accidentally gentle the real Dragon Reborn and the point of it is to try to prove whether the man in question is the actual Dragon Reborn or not (and presumably if they were satisfied that he was indeed the Dragon Reborn rather than a False Dragon they would refrain from gentling him).

[@artos607]

There are well-known and well-defined prophecies of the dragon and often false dragons will try to do one of them and fail.

[@mwill8248]

The Aes Sedai really aren't based on the military, it's based on the Medieval Catholic Church. Think about it's place in society and how it relates to governments. Tar Valon is really a stand in for Rome or the Vatican during the late medieval/early renaissance.

[@roadtotarvalon]

The White Tower is based on his military college in South Carolina. Structurally it's like the military. Never heard anything about it being a stand in for Rome but it's an interesting idea.

[@praetorxyn]

I'd say they're clearly inspired by the Bene Gesserit from Dune.

[@roadtotarvalon]

@@praetorxyn this absolutely.

[@Deuwl]

Preston, the problems you have with the show is mainly due to their incompetence as writers not the actual source material. Though tbf, just like AsOIaF, the source material is flawed but unlike Martin, its finished. From all your questions, i have to mainly agree with you. However, the problem about the red ajah and the dragon isn't a plot hole but 1 of the key points in the books which this show hasn't gotten right.

[@profoundpronoun4712]

Love ya Big P ❤

[@nicholashaw]

preston: are you going to watch one piece.

[@SHARKVADERS]

PK IS BACK FOMOS

[@Osmohameds]

The way I see the series vs book is: - Book has great worldBuilding and "global plot events", but has very bad characters. - Series is the other way around.

[@Elriquee1]

The book has bad characters?? 😂😂My God!! 😂😂Spare us please!!

[@VinnieMF]

Just no. I don't like the characters but they are mostly pretty well written, even if their personalities are insanely unlikeable.

[@lillithsummers8817]

Dear God no. Who would consider any of the main characters “very bad”? This is Amazon buying the rights to the IP and character names and writing bad fan fan fiction about them.

[@fernandogarcia3957]

Seriously Preston, I understand you may not want to continue reading those books, and it’s ok, but WoT series is weird as an adaptation. Not only for the deviations, but how present the things. It's a very interesting thing to compare the books and the show that is not exactly wheel of time but another turning of the wheel and for me is way subpar and some decisions are very wrong. I recommend you the books only for the interesting exercise of comparison some of the source material and the result on TV. Not a good product 🤷

[@tarlochansingh620]

The Show needs to have a map in some way. Either show a panning out shot during shifting between scenes or have a map in the intro.

[@mwill8248]

Yes and maybe more big labels. I don't think they wanted to copy GoT, but there was a reason GoT did it.

[@fernandogarcia3957]

They don't want to get caught and caged by a map, that's the level of 'planning' the producer has. Sad and chaotic

[@gokbay3057]

I think not including some storylines and focusing on others was the correct decision for the show, if they focus on these other storylines next episode. 8:30 I mean not necessarily Mat but there are other main characters who basically disapper for a book (Rand is barely in the 3rd Book, meanwhile Perrin also takes a vacation for a book). 21:05 Well, there is the mention of the Aes Sedai having trials for men who can channel and gentling them on the field not being allowed technically. The trial hardly can be about "can this man channel?" considering either he can and they will gentle him or he can't in which case even if they try to gentle him it isn't going to do anything. So I would think that it will have to be about "is this man the Dragon Reborn" and presumably if they are convinced by the trial they won't gentle him. 34:33 In fact while it being the dream world just from that scene might not be clear I thought it was understandable through rest of the episode. There is the fact that at the end of that scene Ishamael wakes up on a chair (showing that he was asleep). And Moiraine and Rand also talked about sleep being dangerous and that Lanfear had power over dreams and at the end of the episode Rand sleeps and is with Selene/Lanfear at the very end (in the world of dreams). 36:42 They... talked about this as well. Ishamael mentioned to Suroth that he had a gift for her and she and Liandrin (red aes sedai) talked about their master and stuff.

[@stophinder8141]

Yeah that s twice in a row I feel like this guy does not watch the show attentively or while doing other things and misses a lot of things explicitly said in the show. I'm watching non reader reactions and they pick up on those.. It s frustrating to listen to a review made by someone who hardly watch the show. And he feels so smug of it.

[@SchleimigerKot]

i like it when amber shits all over something in a very polite and articulate way

[@magister343]

Slitherin had most of the bad guys, but also a few good guys, and there were a few bad guys from Griffindor too.

[@earlmason1954]

On the Slytherin thing, it's not a house as in a family. It's more like a frat at the boarding school.

[@Elriquee1]

Not knowing anything about Harry Potter is criminal. I just want to put that out there.

[@joefo458]

PJ, the scruff looks good! Keep it up. Better than clean shaven, imho.

[@jonrengering8439]

I continue to think it was a mistake how they've handled race in their casting decisions. It could have really helped to have more distinct racial makeups in the various cities to help distinguish where our characters are. Instead, everywhere is just an ultra-diverse mixing pot

[@shutit8949]

somewhat makes sense with it being post-post-post-post-apocalyptic but it still would’ve been better as you’ve said.

[@Strangesky1]

I think in a world of magic powers and mystical forces, a hand to sword fight scene is the least issue. The character's conversation afterwards tells us non book readers all we needed to know about where she is from

[@cbob213]

Here we Gooo!

[@tnicole902]

I only read half of the series because I couldn't stand the way the author wrote and finally threw in the towel. I'm really enjoying the show so far despite its hiccups.

[@alexanderguerrero347]

Man I don’t even read wheel of time.

[@conordempsey8854]

You should read it, it's great

[@magister343]

It's ok, but doesn't live up to all the hype you see about it from the super fans on KZbin. it probably could have been condensed into a good 6 or 7 book series, but is 15 books long. @@conordempsey8854

[@funkyd3321]

Don't bother. It is boring and derivative. If the overly descriptive slog doesn't put you to sleep, the Jr. High D&D campaign plot will. I mean... When the fans get excited about how much a character pulls on her braid... There is something wrong with them, not me.

[@magister343]

That does not look anything like Aviendha to me. She should have the same coloration as Rand, as people made a big deal about him looking Aiel. She should be very tall, with blue green eyes and reddish blonde hair. Also, I cannot remember if she ever even meets Perrin. She should be in Matt's story, then Egwene's, Elayne's, and of course Rand's.

[@lillithsummers8817]

That’s not Aviendha. It’s race swapping for no reason besides to do it. Let’s see if they race swap Tuon.

[@TheToxicScott]

It is Aviendha hence the acting credit she got. Did you ever think that maybe they gave the parts to the best actor regardless of their race? Maybe they wanted her to be more like the book but Ayoola knocked it out of the park. I for one give zero fucks about the actors' race because you know.....I'm not an asshole.

[@ryanclark1124]

I am a fan of the source material but I won't watch this season or any more of this show for the simple reason that it isn't Wheel of Time. I gave the first season a fair chance and found it to be repulsive.

[@conordempsey8854]

Second season is way better, I actually enjoyed ep 3 - 5 a lot

[@Elriquee1]

Thank you! Someone finally said it. If you read the books, I refuse to see how you enjoy this pile of dogshit.

[@VinnieMF]

The directing and acting is a lot better, I can't say the same for source material accuracy.

[@funkyd3321]

@@VinnieMF Is the direction really better? I still see boring shot/reverse shot scenes with dry dialog, and the fight scenes are just jumbled 2-second long jump-cut edits. While I have my problems getting invested into the story (who am I supposed to like?), the production is still CW amateur-level stuff. My understanding is that Prime gave a high budget to the WoT production, and I'm just not seeing it on screen.

[@lillithsummers8817]

@@conordempsey8854 If you enjoy walking and staring with talking, sure. The plot holes are huge the time spent on nonsense is incredible and the departure for lore is breathtakingly bad.