The Blood and the Bread: Francis Chan

At last year’s “Exiles in Babylon” conference, Francis Chan kicked it off with a bang! He opened up the whole can of Chan about why we need to get back to the centrality of the Eucharist. This podcast episode is a recording of that talk, along with the couch conversation I had with him and the audience Q & A.
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[@Selahsmum]

I want to thank you so much for this talk, both Francis and Preston. So challenging, humbling, and enriching. So many of these points I have come to see myself over the last four or five years, and for myself I have come to believe that Christ founded one church, and that thefullness of the faith is found in the Catholic tradition. And that is whyits so hard for protestants to figure out what are the essential doctrines, and even how to interpret said essential doctrines, because without the guidance of the magisterium of the church, we get confusion. That being said, my wonderful husband has no interest at all in leaving the evangelical community, so I have not become Catholic at this time. But I just dont see any way to have unity if we don't have an interpreter of scripture and someone that defines doctrine authority. But, I stand in agreement with the Catholic church that all baptized, trinitaria Christians are part of the body of Christ, and therefore we are all brothers and sisters. God bless you both!

[@carlosrodas423]

Evangelicals also believe that there is one church. There's one body, and the children of God are not those born of the will of man as the book of John says. Whoever is born again is a member of the one church. That affiliation is a spiritual one created by the spirit of God, not an affiliation with a particular clergyman, Bishop or Pope. The problem with the RC magisterium is that it's gotten a lot of things bad, and the fruit of the institutional RC Church does not fit its own claims. Add to that the doctrinally sanctioned cruelty and idolatry, you'd see that it's very difficult for an evangelical Christian to become Roman Catholic, especially if they grew up Catholic in a Catholic country, seeing firsthand what life was like in the RC, and then being transformed by the gospel. RC apologists are sophisticated, but the selling points are not as compelling when scrutinizes them more closely.

[@j.harris83]

“Transubstantiation: Theology, History, and Christian Unity” this book by Brett Salkeld reviews Luther’s, Calvin’s, and Aquinas’s views of the eucharist.

[@boOrtiz478]

WOW!!! so so soooooo gooodddd!

[@lwconley2005]

Chan is so close to Eastern Orthodoxy and I’m here for it. Lol

[@FaithfulComforter]

Go watch the videos of Francis Chan and Hank Hanegraff speaking on Orthodoxy! Lord willing I’ve just been going to vespers lately. I was originally Baptist. Lord Jesus have mercy on us all ☦️

[@lwconley2005]

@@FaithfulComforter nice! I was Baptist too! Glad to hear you’re going to vespers! :)

[@VictoriaCruz-wk7pk]

Francis- you ARE SO CLOSE!! The CATHOLIC CHURCH. Its still here...2000 years later and still going. Would love to hear your thoughts after going to a traditional latin mass.

[@bradnoel5981]

Or you may have missed the point😊.

[@jgefroh6692]

Or Orthodox

[@EmWarEl]

Francis Chan always goes 125%. So even if you are with him 100%, he went 25% further than you would go.

[@gingerjeff6385]

I love Francis Chan and his passion for seeking the truth. But I usually feel like he gets passionate about something and goes a bit too far with it. This is one of those times.

[@mfjh505]

Interesting. Maybe the early Christians had a lot of resemblance of Catholics and Orthodoxy today? These churches claim that they are ancient and they were started by Jesus then Peter then the bishops. They might have something to this apostolic succession of faith. If their traditions resemble what they did 1500 years ago that's a pretty big deal.

[@MariadeJesus-dt4ql]

Yes....Jesus passed His priesthood to the apostles....and gave the key of the kingdom of Heaven to Peter....this is why Peter.is the first Pope of the Catholic church....and this is why the Catholic church is APOSTOLIC...BECAUSE IT COMES FROM THE APOSTLES. Jesus also said..that not everything he did is in the bible. The Catholic church has more information about the church...the only church.founded by Jesus...The Catholic church. The Catholic church has the cross in which Jesus Died. In fact there is relic piece of that cross in my church. The Catholic church has all of the bodies of the apostles. The Catholic church has the blanket in which Jesus was cover with after His death.

[@FaithfulComforter]

Orthodoxy ☦️has stayed true to the Apostle’s teachings. Roman Catholics messed up with with the Pope and the filioque. I’m a Protestant who’s been studying the church fathers. All this history has been blowing my mind. Rock and Sand by Josiah Trenham on KZbin and the channel Orthodox Kyle has good videos with a lot of sources. I can’t deny the Great Schism of 1054 AD

[@calebzondo3327]

Wow😭

[@fletcher3913]

Jesus didn't say pretend this is my body and blood. He said this IS my body and blood. I don't need a priest to convert the bread and wine. I need faith in his word.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

He could have been using the terms metaphorically. Just like when John the Baptist says "behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". Jesus is neither literally bread nor wine nor a lamb.

[@xaviertorres1685]

@@michaelnewzealand1888 No

[@xaviertorres1685]

Yes you do, you can not do it, your self preoclaimed pastor neither. It's in the bible.

[@fletcher3913]

@@xaviertorres1685 Where in the Bibie? Chapter and verse, please.

[@xaviertorres1685]

@@fletcher3913 i'm going to send you 3, but what about the interpretation?, Are you seeking for the truth?

[@MesaVerdeDreamfinder]

Interesting thoughts. Agree that love and action should be used to help determine the standing of a believer. Wonder why the creeds don't build on the essence and centrality of love... Sounds like the early church setup had a complimentarion view of bishops. That turned out well...for Rome... I am more and more convinced power is the primary antichrist and anything done to coerce and claim it is to the detriment of Jesus. Lots to think about and good practical application to love eachother well.

[@FaithGardener]

Would like to ask a genuine question here...is it right or good for spouses to take the bread and cup by themselves without their spouse? Like they are one flesh, which is a spiritual reference, so it doesnt seem right from a spiritual p.o.v.

[@Maxandshe]

Yep, the blood and bread is in remembrance of the Lord Jesus. BUT, RC also pray to saints and believe salvation thru works, and believe that Mary is mediator and Co redeemer. So..... Major differences.

[@alanmacdonald5246]

The Plymouth Brethren always gather around the Lord's Table in their Sunday meetings .. it is the centre of their worship... But they do not believe in transubstantiation. It is no less reverent, meaningful or purposeful.

[@arceneaux66]

The Catholic Church is the early church.

[@doloreswoodrum9184]

How is this not cannibalism?

[@CONDACOCLIPS]

Because it is the crucified resurrected and living gloriously ascended Lord....si he is not dead dude!!

[@xaviertorres1685]

Only in catholicism you are able to participate in the fullness of Christianity.

[@ericmuetterties1984]

Sure... "the fullness of the Truth of the Bible..." Rcc propaganda slogan, with no scriptural backup.

[@xaviertorres1685]

@@ericmuetterties1984 Just 2000 years of tradition AND scriptural backup.

[@ericmuetterties1984]

@@xaviertorres1685 I understand the 2000 years of tradition, though it is more like 1500-1800 if you study it rightly (Catholic traditions started 300-500 AD - teaching otherwise is inaccurate). I was raised Catholic. What is not there is the scriptural backup for Catholic doctrine.

[@ericmuetterties1984]

@@xaviertorres1685 Show me the scriptural backup for the Catholic priesthood. Let's take it one at a time.

[@xaviertorres1685]

@@ericmuetterties1984 Then you were very very poorly raised, a proper raised catholic never changes the true church of Jesus for the alcoholic, ladiesman and heretic Luther's.

[@scottranck2225]

The Didache describes communion more of a time of thanksgiving and prayer but nothing much more. I think Chan picks up too much from 300 AD on. Christianity became a more formal religion at that time as Rome's influence grew. Humans are notoriously religious and muck up most practices. In the NT most the churches were house churches and they did practice the Agape Feast along with the breaking of bread and prayer. To say this was the central feature of the church for the first thousand years is a huge stretch. The NT church was very informal, meeting in houses and often had lengthy teaching from the circulated letters. They didn't have the complete NT but they did circulate the letters to be read and discussed. I really disliked the majority of this talk.

[@pokeslob]

Read more early Christians on this topic, fresh in my mind right now is Justin Martyr (early 2nd c.) and Ignatius (late 1st/early 2nd c.) who both describe the Eucharist as the real body and blood of Jesus, and Justin even gives us a rundown of the liturgy.

[@wenshan9101]

It is as you described, of thanksgiving and prayers, but prayers with a liturgical character, including this exhortation, "Let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptized into the name of the Lord" (Lightfoot and Harmer, 154) God builds on the faith of the Fathers and Martyrs. We did not receive that which was not lived and then passed down. I see a general tendency to build on the concept of sonship alone. Knowingly or unknowingly, people see themselves as their own authority, whereas the Body of Christ, His Church, is where Christ's authority was vested.

[@mikefoulger8919]

​@@wenshan9101

[@andrevaca6700]

Just thanksgiving and prayer? The didache mentions sacrifice 3 times. Didache Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice

[@maceawilder]

@@andrevaca6700 Sacrifice is in the context of the weekly collection taken for the care of the church body.

[@robertmcvicar5824]

Apostasy from the Christian faith to idolatry. Sad.