PRIMARCH ROLES AFTER THE GREAT CRUSADE? PART 1

[@johnsmith-hn2vu]

Insofar as I remember, Primarchs were generally engineered into several archetypes to allow for redundancy based on the possibility of corruption or betrayal- but all were meant to play some peacetime role eventually. Lion and Russ seem to have always been intended to work together as a sort of IA unit- Russ publicly censures dangerous foes and makes sagas out of them to keep humanity feeling safe whilst Lion digs out enemies by the roots and destroys them in the dark where no-one has to know. Both are known for unshakeable loyalty to do what must be done. Kurze and Corax both had strong senses of justice- Kurze in a legal and Corax in a moral sense. Combine future-sight and sppoky shadow power and you get the ultimate crime-hunting duo that double as police and prosecution in court. Dorn and Perturabo are both builders but with distinct secondary capabilities- Dorn as a strategist and Perturabo as an engineer. Between the two of them I'm sure any future Imperial Cities would be appropriately majestic AND defensible. Fulgrim and Sanguinius serve as icons- one is an angel descending from above, one a phoenix ascending from below. No matter what, you'll be able to use one of them for inspiration. Magnus obviously sits the Golden Throne. Lorgar and Mortarion both seem to have been intended as watchers for particular forms of 'corruption' - religious and psychic respectively. Maybe Lorgar was also backup for Magnus as a psyker? The Khan would have been one of the Primarchs kept in military service as a scout, patrolling the frontiers for trouble Horus remains Warmaster and the overall Lord Commander of the Imperial Military, keeping his combat role with Ferrus as his second (based on how everyone talks, Ferrus was very much made for war). Guilliman does his spreadsheets and/or retires to be a farmer Angron and Vulkan both seem to have been intended to become mediators via supernatural empathy. The EMperor does say that Vulkan was meant to teach his brothers how to let the war go. Alpharius/Omegon does Alpharius/Omegon things (and probably reports to Malcador).

[@andrewbyrne2173]

Pretty much my thoughts.

[@YungFozz]

Great comment and it all makes sense

[@Rickybobby427xyz]

This is pretty on point. Good job

[@LegendStormcrow]

I suspect Magnus has a backup in one of the 2 lost legions.

[@APZachariah]

The Khan could be pure exploration. There will always be frontiers to explore.

[@Battlechicken12]

Jaghatai also could have been used to hunt down any Xenos that appeared on the fringes of the galaxy

[@Mike_Viola]

Outstanding take

[@Battlechicken12]

@@APZachariah yes please for the Khan for the White Scars for Chogoris

[@ordohereticus5530]

In Angel Exterminatus Perty showed Fulgrim plans and sketches of cities and creations so beautiful the Phoenician was awestruck. I could definitely see the Emperor telling Perty "the galaxy is your sandbox. Have fun son" and off he goes. Also for Konrad I can see the Emperor healing him. There is no saving the majority of the 8th through. Even before the end of the Great Crusade many were already begging to just be let loose on the Night Lords, including big names like Raldoran and Sigismund.

[@johnsmith-hn2vu]

I mean, even Konrad hated the Night Lords. They became everything he used to fight against to the point that he more or less gave up with the 'if you can't beat 'em...' school of nihilism. A cured Konrad would probably have a lot of fun individually judging every member of his legion (and making examples of everyone who failed his tests).

[@johnlucas2838]

I keep thinking Konrad would have been more inclined towards statesman as someone in regards to law. If he didn't grow up so broken, then maybe he would have been this.

[@thearchitect2112]

One could argue the Lion’s role would be a Warden of sorts, maybe even the future jailer of the Dark Cells. His secretive nature would be perfect for keeping the nature of the prison hidden, while his Forrest-Walk and monster hunting nature would be perfect for tracking down escaped prisoners and artifacts. His legion was already shown to be entrusted with dangerous artifacts and knowledge, as well as interrogator chaplains being a thing. This combined with his dauntless will and his “loyalty is its own reward” attitude making him perfect for resisting the temptations of the Dark Cell’s inhabitants. Just my opinions though.

[@ShadowGhost0117]

Plus he would still act as the last resort option whenever the Imperium encountered a new threat (even in supposed peace time, there will always be more enemies to be encountered and eliminated).

[@jedismasher]

his legion would probably just take over the role of the deathwatch/Grey knights as the ones supposed to fight the degenerates of the immaterium.

[@redactedredacted4080]

They are even called the dark angels.

[@I_am-lost.]

Honestly, I always thought they'd end up as an inquisition legion

[@ShadowGhost0117]

@@I_am-lost. I honestly feel they would fit that role as well due to their knack for keeping secrets.

[@SeanHenderson]

Thunder warriors: don't trust him!

[@TheOrangex88]

Custodes: I FOUND ANOTHER ONE!

[@emperor002002]

Emperor: Everyone meet at this planet for celebration. Primarchs with legions: Celebrations are in order let's go. Emperor: Everyone there? Malcador: Yup Star of the planet goes Super Nova. Emperor: Oh no, 💩 happens. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@dean_l33]

Well they seem awfully cool with big E even after the betrayl

[@Avenger127]

Lol 😂​@@TheOrangex88

[@orumonuldor1340]

The Emperor's betrayal of the Thunder Warriors began the moment they were created. They were designed to be too aggressive and too powerful to keep.

[@Leivve]

Curze was probably supposed to be a judge. He had a strong sense of justice right from the get go, it was part of what drove him to be the Night Haunter to begin with. It was implied the emperor could have fixed him very easily, and was on his way to do just that before the Primarch escaped.

[@Christian-e8x]

I always pictured Jagathai Kahn as patrolling the outskirts of the galaxy, all those halo and ghoul stars, or even reaching out into the neighboring dwarf galaxies or even the Andromeda galaxy, carrying the imperial light into the ultimate darkness of the void

[@DieNextInLINE]

I definitely see it. He and his Legion would never be happy sitting around. But I do wonder. Sometimes it feels like the Khan was made purely for the great crusade. To conquer, and to conquer swiftly. But his other purpose, I think, is to serve as a foil to many of his brothers opinions. Reading the books, Jhagatai almost always has a view that both agrees with and criticizes both sides of a discussion. I remember reading in World War Z about Israel having a 'tenth-man' policy due to their history and almost near destruction because they all thought they wouldn't be attacked. The policy is if ten men in a room all agree on the same thing, it is the responsibility, the duty of the tenth man to act as if they are all wrong and research the alternatives. If Jhagatai took part in governance at all, it probably would be that "tenth man" role he'd fill. Always arguing a third stance in his brother's discussion. Also, Rho says that Jhagatai disagreed with Big E over the Imperial Truth, but Im currently reading the Siege of Terra series, and, IIRC, Jhagatai changes his mind about his father's attempts with the Imperial Truth. Still disliking it, but realizing there was no other way and the average person would have never understood and the foreknowledge wouldn't help them defend themselves, just empower Chaos even further.

[@raygun441]

Jagatai Khan would open up his own Mongolain BBQ restaurant chain after the great crusade. :-)

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

For Perturabo, after the Great Crusade I imagine the Emperor giving him access to the good stuff from the Dark Age of Technology (maybe even some of the Lion's toys) so that he can understand and replicate them and then sic them on the Mechanicum in order to replace them and lead a new age of technological development.

[@release_the_Diddy_list]

That’d probably have been Ferrus. Perturabo would get to build and beautify worlds to his black hearts content.

[@Areckahn]

I see Jaghatai as an intentionally contrary good, reminding Emps of the ideals beyond the pragmatism

[@aquavitae3824]

The freedom side of humanity, the other half of Vulcan.

[@dean_l33]

@@aquavitae3824 what would corax be then? In my eyes corax fit the freedom fighter better

[@aquavitae3824]

@@dean_l33 corax is a judge, the arbities.

[@aquavitae3824]

@@dean_l33 *batman voice* "I am Justice!"

[@dean_l33]

@@aquavitae3824 Cruze already got that covered if weren't a cannibalistic schizophrenic

[@trajanfidelis]

Night Lords and Alpha Legion would be the police and secret police respectively

[@francis5600]

No difference in philosophy to current police. Checks out.

[@christbenitez8797]

The dark ravens will be the SWAT? since these guys can go invisible

[@System-Update]

E to the Lion: - Go hunt Monsters, there are still plenty across the galaxy. If you run out, follow Jagahatai out of the galaxy and see what is out there. Oh, and you might take mad Uncle Conrad with you too, just keep him out of the sight and don't let him out please. No, don't let Pertarabo know you are going, he is in a massive sulk about having to garrison the outer reaches of the Imperium. No, you can't go via the dog kennel on the way out. Russ is Happy drinking and fighting on Fenris, leave him be, there's a good lad. The Angel and Fulgim said to say bye, now off you go.

[@Templarzealot89]

I remember the space wolves really old fluff was that they were meant to be the bullwark agains chaos with their natural ability to withstand it. I remember back in the day they were meant to be the biggest legion and guard the eye of terror. Fighting the chaos gods. Might be miss remembering that though

[@Mitchmyoutube]

I think this kind of underestimates how huge the imperium would be after a total victory during the crusade. All the the legions would probably be able to patrol the outer rim of the empire for zenos and be at war for essentially forever

[@flamefyr]

In my mind, I've always seen Sanguinus as the Crown Prince. Even his brothers loved him and I'm sure Emps would get Horus to agree to the pronouncement. But I do agree that Emps at the end of the Great Crusade might hold off on elevating any more of his Sons until he was sure there would be no rebellion among them

[@daedra1175]

Love you Wolf Lord!

[@Modernarcher119]

I don’t see any world Big E culls the Legions. He did it to the Thunder Warriors only because they had turbo cancers and they were unstable. Why would the Big E get rid of the Legions- surely while he may not have known the Nids were coming but would’ve wanted to be prepared for future threats. Imagine if he had known about the Necron and that would’ve forced the hand of the Silent King- Legions would be helpful in that.

[@rankcolour8780]

He DID know about the Necrons, he fought a C'tan shard and imprisoned it on Mars long before the Great Crusade.

[@andrewburgess8529]

Fulgrim was to be the Empires great patron of the arts, Perturabo was to be the Empires architect filling the galaxy with his great buildings, Curze was supposed to be the Empires judge but that was before he went nuts.

[@matt_9112]

"They" went nuts. Just because Conrad had a headstart, doesn't mean at least Fulgrim didn't also loose some (doubtlessly perfect) marbles. Perti maybe being the one sane traitor primarch as of the siege of terra. Outside of Horus, depending which way the wind is/was currently blowing.

[@GraniteGhost778]

I got so confused with the Lion for a moment because I thought you were talking about Guilliman. The Lion: I feel like he'd become essentially the equivalent of the Rangers in Lord of the Rings. Never really seen, but always haunting the perimeters of the Imperium, intercepting and eliminating threats before anyone else knows of them. Fulgrim: definitely agree that he would become the voice of the Emperor in many cases. That guy who comes to speak with you when the Emperor isn't available but wants you to feel important. Perturabo: he's tricky, but I do agree that he always seemed happier when he wasn't fighting and instead was learning or building. Perhaps he would go around creating engineering works or researching with one of his more academically inclined brothers? The Khan: I honestly feel as though the Khan, if he didn't rebel at some point, I think he'd have one of two outcomes. Either he'd do what the Lion does and become a perimeter defense that intercepts threats to the Imperium. The other option might be that he just retreats to Chorgoris and lives in peace as the Great Khan of his people. Lemon: I think he'd be much like the Lion and the Khan, kept at the ready but much closer to home. He'd be the reinforcement sent to either of his brothers if they were in need, but also the Emperor's enforcer if ever any of the primarchs stepped out of line. Dorn: I think you're correct, that he'd become an architect of the Imperium, being sent out to fortify its vastness against the threats that his brothers strove to intercept and keep at bay. Though I feel as though at some point, he may also start building for peaceful purposes. Kurze: I'm genuinely not sure what would happen here. By the time of the Crusade, he was already pretty insane. It really depends on if the Emperor bothers to help him or not. He really does feel like one of the more likely candidates for the Emperor eliminating. The Angel: I had never considered that Sanguinius might be a problem, but honestly with the flaw of the Blood Angels I really do wonder if Sanguinius would pose a problem if the Emperor deems his legion problematic. Provided that there were no other issues, I could definitely him serving the same role as Fulgrim as one of the Emperor's emissaries when the Emperor's voice needed a direct representative.

[@aguspuig6615]

Fulgrim apreciation is rare online, it makes me happy.

[@dartzspade8622]

While on Nostramo after Curze became the ruler, he was a good governor. Restoring and uplifting Nostramo. I can see him on agri-world growing roses alongside Guilliman and Vulkan, mabe becoming sane.

[@DieNextInLINE]

"Good governor". Have you not read the part where Kurze holds a woman in a cell and flays her for the crime of attempting suicide? He's basically lying to himself saying how this pain is necessary for her to appreciate the life she's given and how spilling her blood TOTALLY doesn't give him any pleasure, as he's basically salivating and actually licking parts of her blood off of his face. Even of his own Night Lords outright calls him out on how the only reason his planets are 'governed well', i.e. staying "compliant", is fear of him and the Legion. Konrad says there was no other way and, I believe it's Talos, calls him on his shit AGAIN by saying "Did you even try anything else? Why were all your brothers able to bring worlds to compliance through other means but terror?" and hints that rebellion begins to fester almost the second that Konrad is gone with his Legions. I also don't get how people write Konrad off as 'insane'. He has visions of the future. Visions that could change depending on his actions and yet if he accepts that he could change his destiny, it would mean that he's been doing terrible things this whole time by his own will. Curze is not insane. He's a sick fuck who uses fate as an excuse for why he is, why he is.

[@marcustrajan4873]

This was sort of foretold by a Space Wolves Priest who set out the surviving Primarch's Wyrds in the book Prospero Burns: One to be the heir to the Emperor's Throne: Guilliman One to fortify the defences of the Imperium: Dorn One to guard the hearth: Vulkan One to watch the distant perimeter: The Kahn One to command the armies: The Lion One to control intelligences: Corax One to be executioner: Russ

[@jamesharrington001]

Russ = the spoken threat when you want it done in a visible way. The Lion = when you want them gone, wiped from reality.

[@eaterofchickens5438]

Curze = A lasting reminder, that you crossed the line

[@Blipvertus]

So I guess the question is, what was their intended role vs the one they fulfilled in the Crusade. Jagthai Khan I can envision being the outrider or explorer in the post Crusade era. Head of an explorer core? Overseer of the Rogue Traders? Fulgrim could’ve been a diplomat. Maybe the Emperor’s attitude towards Xenos changes. I can certainly see a possibility of the Eldar and later Tau having a peaceful relationship, one United against Chaos and the Tyranids. Kurze? Hmm, maybe the secret police? Minister of justice? Head of the assassins? Assuming you can cure his madness, maybe?

[@DieNextInLINE]

Jhagatai could have been a kind of 'border patrol'. We know in the 41st Millennium, the Tyranids are coming from outside our galaxy, so it would make sense the Big E would foresee, if not the Nids themselves, but the danger posed by things outside the Milky Way. So the Khan riding around the edge of Imperial Space, being ready to strike at Xenos seems perfect for him.

[@AlindBack]

I could see pairs of Astartes, one from the Blood Angels, one from the Imperial Fists, going out to be those paragons of the artistry in the Imperium. The Angels spreading their hope and art, while the Fists would be for duty and architecture. But, the each pair would be a Fist and an Angel because of the Angels' flaw. The Fists are the ever vigilent sentinels, ready at any time to see the Angels' flaw and tell them "no."

[@dakotalange2858]

Wolf Lord Rho can you do a video of Angron potential if he didn’t have the butchers nails

[@DieNextInLINE]

We learn from Malcador that Magnus was a contingency for the Golden Throne, and when Alpharius Omegon meets Russ, hes asked 'What' he is, then we learn what Russ, at least, thinks each of the Primarchs role is or would be. So, with some of these roles clear during the Crusade and possibly carrying over into peace, I wonder what Primarchs did Malcador and Big E except to turn traitor. Because, correct if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that they knew it would happen, just not as soon as it did, hence Malcadors urging to Khan that they must not only conquer the galaxy, but conquer it quickly, as time as running out. Also, Lorgar was clearly meant to be the Herald of the Emperor. Possibly the next best carrier of his authority behind the Sigilite and Warmaster. And Fulgrim would have, no doubt, been in charge of cultural affairs accross the Imperium. The farther a planet is from the cradle of humanity, the further they feel from that culture and bond. With Fulgrim leading cultural affairs, the culture of Terra could be spread to every planet in the Imperium, so that every citizen actually felt bound together beyond something as intangible as "The Imperium".

[@Mr.Monacle]

My belief was always that the primarch's would largely be free to pursue their own interests after the end of the Great Crusade and the conquests of the webway. Even Magnus serving as the light of the Astronomicon would become unnecessary once the Webway project was complete, since the Webway would create set paths throughout the galaxy, which humanity could make use of. This is even supported by the fact that the Emperor considered himself little more than a Steward to guide humanity to reach their potential. He is very explicit that once the Great Crusade was done, humanity would have to govern itself were it to reach its full potential and take their rightful place as undisputed masters of the universe forevermore. Besides, there would be little reason to get rid of the primarch's and their legion, and in fact, doing so would likely be catastrophic. Look at what happened when less than half of the legions turned traitor under the banner of *chaos,* which drove almost all of them quite mad. Now imagine all *18* Legions were excommunicated and essentially forced to turn traitor or face extermination while also having their full tactical capabilities. Humanity would be destroyed in the ensuing conflict, or near enough that with the arrival of the various threats in subsequent milennia what little remains would be more or less scoured from the face of the galaxy forevermore. No, for humanity to rule themselves and for humanity to survive, the Primarchs and their legions would continue to exist. Maybe the Legions would be allowed to retire, or would be brought into the Astra Militarum to serve as elite troops until the last of the Space Marines died out, but there would be no great purge as there was with the Thunder Warriors.

[@willy.b.b3427]

I actually think the original plan was to only keep the trefoil legions around after the crusade. You could easily integrate the salamanders into everyday life without just having them be rulers just big friendly protectors who keep the everyday peace, scattered in lower numbers across the galaxy, a first response force so to speak. The alpha legion can keep an eye on every aspect of the imperium and nullify inssurections and chaos taint before it becomes a big problem keeping everyone in line from behind the veil. Finally the space wolves would be pretty happy confined to a few deathworld, fighting monsters, drinking beer, telling stories and probably having a good few brawls. Generally doing space wolf things until either an external threat appeared that required legion forces to defeat, or if the salamanders or alpha legion get a but funky and needed sorting out. Once the imperium is settled and stable, you wouldnt really need anything else.

[@alcolyte666]

The Lion starts a very lucrative, galaxy wide. Safari company! Taking high lords for hunts. I picture him looking similar to the Hunter from Jumanji, Van Pelt.

[@LordGrantius]

Perturabo was an architect and an organizer, I could easily imagine him leading reconstruction efforts, either after conflict or natural disasters. His legion somewhat superfluous, but their stable geneseed makes them valuable as garrison forces

[@themather1]

Perturabo's role would no doubt be to rebuild the war torn galaxy. To once more spread his sons across the conquered worlds, but this time not to hold them, but to build marvels of technology and architecture to replace what was destroyed during the Great Crusade, and to bring these backwater worlds up to a standard befitting the Emperor's vision. Where by contrast Dorn would be more suited to building up and fortifying key worlds.

[@avengingangel]

Personally, considering orks are still around after 65 million years, I think the Astartes would have been retained if only to combat them. Possibly the Legions would have been officially split into chapters, with the Primarchs serving higher purposes, such as Magnus on the Golden Throne or Guilliman as king of Ultramar. Of course it's important to note that the Word Bearers and Emperor's Children would have always fallen to Chaos so there would be need there too for Astartes to counter them.

[@Crowd7]

I can see Perturabo working with the Ad Mech for the sake of working on lost dark age technology given his gifts to figure out how things work

[@someguy3925]

For good while had the idea there was likely going to be some ironic tragedy where one of Perturabo's intended roles was he was going to be given a role similar to Dorn had been as the Praetorian of Terra only he was instead meant to be tasked with quarantining the Eye, being given direct authority over the development of its surrounding systems so long as the maelstrom was contained.

[@redfatherfigure]

In Sanguinius' primarch novel, there's a scene where he imagines the Blood Angels perfected, with pearl-white armor symbolizing their purity and the absence of the Red Thirst. It was a future he saw for them, one that he could have had the opportunity to bring to pass if he had lived. I wonder if Sanguinius and the Emperor would have had a similar relationship like The Sanguinor and Sanguinius - a symbolic herald-ruler. The only time I heard the Emperor say he was proud of one of his sons was to Sanguinius in EatD Part 1, so I have to imagine that Sanguinius would have risen far in the Emperor's plans.

[@justinanderson2460]

I think this has to be predicated on the Great Crusade being a complete success. If this was the case, Perty would be fine on the resentment front, as long as he was able to do more of what he personally enjoyed than he did in the Crusade. I agree completely with the science division of the Imperium and was thinking as much before Rho even said it. I also think it would be an incomprehensible waste of an opportunity to not have both Dorn AND Perturabo working TOGETHER to fortify and reinforce the Imperium. Can you imagine those 2 actually working together without a time constraint or the pressure of the Crusade and earning daddy's favour turning a healthy sibling rivalry into genuine animosity? The 'Nids wouldn't stand a chance and would break on the mighty walls of this, Imperium Ascended, like brittle glass upon tempered steel. Plus, with Perturabo's guns blasting anything that skitters or stomps, Jaghatai's raiding parties cutting swathes through enemy flanks, the Lion's blade taking a full frontal assault to the enemy, along with Angron's berzerkers and Russ's wolf packs shock and awe-ing the tits off of every enemy in sight, they'd have a galactic scale game of whack-a-mole going. Thats before you even get to mention the others who might like to join in. As for the Night Haunter, I actually do think that the Horus Heresy not happening would have disproved Konrad's bullshit idea that the future is immutable. He would strugfle immensely with all the shitty things he'd done and it he would definitely take it very hard however, I do believe that the Emperor could and eould help him. With considerably more time available to them now, the Emperor could go about restoring Curze's sanity and I think he and the Angel would finally be given the time together I think they truly needed so that Konrad could learn not just how to better manage his foresight (which I actually believe was stronger than Sanguinius's own) but, to also learn from arguably the "best" of all the Primarchs when it came to managing his darker side - something we all know Sanguinius also had a great amont of experience with.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Perturabo: building landmarks, libraries and such. Dorn: spaceship design. Both might even be tasked with bringing the Mechanicum into the fold.

[@AzureShadow88]

I have stranded halfway through HH but i think you overlooked a part of Dorn. He actually hated tearing down the decorations of the palace in favor of fortifications. But being the dutiful son he did what had to be done. But it comes down to the same conclusion, given more time he would build both beautifully and strong

[@davidmiddleton7958]

The Primarchs after the Crusade. A good topic for discussion. The Lion, I would forsee him as the Emporer's hidden hammer. Russ is the Executioner, the Lion is the hidden fist! Also, the Lion would be a fail safe on Konrad Kurze! Perturabo, a builder! The Pheonisian, a little too flighty for my purposes. Alot of thinking to put this jigsaw together.

[@mrbreck1]

Iirc the emperor had twenty mansions set aside under the imperial palace. It was on an underground lake. Each house villa was set up for a particular primarch. To my mind he had those set up for his sons to retire and decompress after the great crusade. Primarch or not they all had scars physical and mental and would have benefitted from that retreat.

[@cj4857]

Peter turbo would be trying to break into Dorns mansion all the time! And Lemans would be the party frat house! ​@mrbreck1

[@Voron_Aggrav]

from the Way the Primarchs are made, their unique characteristics it's quite obvious that the Emperor intended them all for some specific role in his empire, probably as ministers or as advisors/oversight for their role Lion, I always got the vibe that the Emperor wanted them as his spearhead and his Special Forces, allowing them to have things he'd give to no one else, entrusting them with things he'd entrust nobody else with, the next tier down from the Custodes as it where would be their role, most likely separate from Horus whom as Warmaster would oversee the military side of things, Jaghatai is the Outrider, always has been and always will be, he'll definitely be patrolling the fringes of the galaxy, and hunting down what needs to be hunted down Konrad definitely could be fixed, not sure if his Sons could be salvaged, but his role always has been to become the Justice, possible also retaining that role as Torturer,

[@rankcolour8780]

He did, In the Alpharius novel it talks about them having roles but because they were scattered and found one by one none of them were able to fulfil their intended role as he had to put them to use as he found them where and how they were needed the most.

[@Voron_Aggrav]

@@rankcolour8780 too common a tale where needs outstrips the wants

[@forgefathervulkanhestan18]

I think the Lion would become the supreme head of the Arbites. He reflects in sons of the forest that he prefers being a protector more then a conqueror or warrior. And you know the serve and protect protect attitude of cops.

[@adriancooke7795]

If the great crusade wrapped up do you think Erda would come out of the woodwork and the primarchs would meet thier mum? im sure that would be interesting.

[@Fyre19]

lorgar stabbed her so no

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Good question, but that’s going to largely depend on E and his mood. She did put a kink in his plans after all.

[@AstartesEz8]

The Khan feels like he'd be part of the explorator fleets. Coordinating with any action that involves moving further away from the heart of the imperium. The galatic rim would be his playground

[@nonso3396]

Malcador did outright say their plan was always to get the primarchs to turn on themselves & duke it out. It's why they encouraged their rivalry & gave some special treatment. Just looking out how each primarch was treated from the time they met their father till they turned, it's beyond obvious some were daddy's favorites, while others not worth his time & attention. You can also note through the various emperor-primarch reunions, whenever he met with any of those who would later turn traitor, either his behavior towards em would be different (like Angron & Mortarion) or he'd be chill with them, but they would always notice the slightest bit of sorrow/remorse on his face like with Perturabo. So pretty sure he already from the start planned out which primarchs would fall on which side. Just that of course, the plan wasn't full proof & they couldn't be sure only those intended would turn & of course the timeline with which chaos would effect their plans. So safe to say plus or minus a few on either side, big E & uncle Mal sure intended to have only around half the Legions & primarchs left to protect the galaxy-spanning imperium using the webway

[@Bondrewd_TheNovel]

I agree with most of the listings with some minor adjustments: - The Lion: Demon/Xeno hunter. Even if his webway project succeeded, tyranids, necrons etc would have still posed a threat and would have to be handled. - Fulgrim: I can't see him as a statesman, give how vain, and fragile his ego was to begin with. Although to contradict myself, he could serve as a 'xeno diplomat'. What I'm mostly basing this on is his interaction with Eldrad. Fulgrim, - even without the influence of that accursed blade, had a sense for beauty, art, and through those could have communicated with other races. - Perturabo: could have become a builder, but I'm afraid his pettiness would have gotten the better of him, and would have become among those that got closed away, with his legion disbanded. - Jaghatai: for him, specifically scout/outrider for the webway. For all intents and purposes, I see them needed as scouts to 'map' the webway as much as possible. - Leman: same - Rogal: THE builder for the imperium - Konrad: the only way for healing him I see is 'reforming' him from the ground up, and finding a purpose for him and his legion something similar to those of the Eversor. - Sanguinius: poster boy for the Imperium perhaps, though I have my doubts. Helping in the creation of arts, and thus elevating other cultures could work.

[@judsonbates1359]

I think it’s clear Curze was supposed to be a Judge for the Imperium. His sense of justice and right / wrong (prior to going crazy) was solid and would have fit that role perfectly. He would be the head imperial adjudicator. He wound render decisions and Russ and the wolves would carry out the sentence.

[@rainbowsixODST]

I’d love to see an Alt-40k where the Horus Heresy was prevented and the great crusade succeeded. I think it would be awesome to watch a genuine OP-Age of Technology Imperium dealing with a new-plan CHAOS, Tyranids, Necrons, the terrors of the Ghoul Stars, the Eldar, and so many more❤️

[@bigjess7406]

I'd imagine Sanguinius would be the "Prince" figure. Like the heir to the emperor kinda character

[@brotherhoodz97]

leman is needed, if for nothing else other than if a brother gets ideas.

[@housetoocrowded7825]

I think some of the Primarchs could be utilised like an Ultramar Tetrach type role for segments of the Solar System in proximity to their home world or a world they are appointed to if they have no desire to rule from their home worlds for any number of reasons.

[@NorthernXY]

Russ has a small resistance to the warp so I'd think he be kept as the Emperor's vanguard. With the Lion being the primary space marine army. Plus Russ might just retire to Fenris to drink, eat, and wrestle krakens for fun. Then called up on occasion Big-E calls him up and says I have a problem for you.

[@Chris-et2fm]

Curze: plot twist, he's Imperial Santa. Like Santa in Futurama

[@chunkblaster]

Something i don't think enough people consider is the role of the mechanicus post-crusade. They were an alliance of convenience and if the imperium had someone like Ferris leading their technology and research they would be in an opportune position to be done with that alliance. Meanwhile primarchs like Lionel Johnson have a new war to fight to keep them busy.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Wolf Lord, how about a theory video on how things could have changed if Angron was stuck in a Bruce Banner/Hulk situation? Like it’s a daily coin toss between whether he’s the empathetic Paladin he was designed for or the ruthless barbarian from canon? So he’s only a ‘half broken’ Primarch?

[@Emberheart_]

I - Lion El'Johnson: Face of the inquisition, keeping an eye on Chaos and quietly removing its influence while nobody is the wiser. He answers directly to Malcador, who remains its shadow ruler. III - Fulgrim: Minster of culture and propaganda, designing beauty while hiding the ugly side of the Imperium from the public. IV - Perturabo: Breaker of Commorragh, sent into the webway to destroy Commorragh and the Drukhari for good. V - Jaghatai Khan: Xenos hunter, set up to campaign and hunt down the Aeldari, one craftworld at a time. The Orks are next. VI - Leman Russ: Executioner, at the ready to destroy his brothers when asked. VII - Rogal Dorn: Rebuilding the Imperium, turning worlds into fortresses for a future Tyranid invasion. If the Emperor goes scrying outside the galaxy he'll know they're coming. VIII - Konrad Curze: Kept beneath the Imperial Palace, listed as lost and as with II and XI he's forgotten about. When the Emperor needs a seer who isn't as rose colored as Sanguinius, he'll rouse a vision out of Curze. IX - Sanguinius: Emperor of the Imperium, as the Emperor never wished to rule he'll let Sanguinius be that public figure while the Emperor retreats to his place of work to engineer the next step for human existence.

[@Voron_Aggrav]

Curze wouldn't need that treatment, the Emperor can easily mend him and get him back on track to serve as his Justice

[@christopherbeavers8344]

No way he was going to get rid of humanity's bulwark. Gestures broadly at the 40k universe.

[@LoneSilverW0lf]

Well, just because he is a genius doesn’t mean he is immune to making dumb decisions. Look at the razing of Monarchia. I get where he’s coming from, only after a good bit of explaining from Lore Masters, but the way he went about it was so colossally stupid. Not informing any of his sons about the dangers of the Chaos gods when the Primarchs are the juiciest targets for the gods? And I’m sure there are several other things I’m just not thinking about that are just flat out stupid that he’s done. So there is the very real chance that he could wipe the Astartes for ‘reasons’.

[@2012sonora]

@@LoneSilverW0lf this is one of those things where the HH series trying to fill in the details of the lore devalues it. ABD has a clear preference for Chaos and a dislike of the Imperium, so it's kind of not surprising that when he got to write that pivotal moment that broke Lorgar, it featured the Emperor acting like a moron. It's a writing problem.

[@TheMuskokaman]

“The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.”

[@erih2934]

Can anyone point me to a book where it was stated that Russ is the Emperor's Executioner by any other than Russ himself or others quoting him? So far I have only found this title to be given to Russ by himself and that he kept telling this to anyone who would listen.

[@allunt8170]

Lion - Leads wars against demons Fulgrim - attempts to gain a more fabulous hair than Big E Perty - Head of IT department on Terra Khan - Speeding across the stars Leman - establishes galaxy scale alcohol corporation Rogal - Head of Construction department Kurze - looks for the 2nd and 11th brothers Sangunius - becomes Santa Claus 40 000 Manus - Head Sis admin on Terra Angron - Looks for Kurze Gilliman - being Gilliman Morty - Finally takes a shower Magnus - sits upon golden throne Horrus - plays politics Lorgar - chastises himself for 10 000 years Vulkan - chills Corvus - CIA Alfa - FBI

[@malb.4107]

If Curze mastered his ability he would be able to see if someone was actually going to change their behavior in the future. Can't ask for a better judge. For this mental experiment to work you have to factor out chaos completely. Because chaos is what perverted everything in the first place.

[@Calis1880]

Perty is basically an engineer. That would have been his role. To build and create. Jaghatai would have been a ranger. Patrolling the outskirts of the galaxy for threats. The Lion I’ve no doubts would have acted as a military commander. Tasked with ensuring no threat from outside the galaxy is unprepared for. Meanwhile Russ would have a similiar role but he would concern himself mainly with threats within the imperium. Rebellions, xenos etc

[@markrtoffeeman]

You cannot invade the Webway without the Primarchs.

[@I_am-lost.]

Tbf if jaghatai fell to chaos, it would be like a spoilt child turning on their parents. He wasn't neglected by the emperor - he gave him more attention than he did half the others and made attempts to connect with him, he was allowed to run off and do his own thing without being ordered around like other legions. Jaghatais issues with the primarchs brotherhood was entirely his own doing, simerly the stereotypes around the legion were never dissuaded because of him. Him falling makes no sense unless you look at it from the entire self victimising perspective him and his legion had. That aside, i think the lion and dark angels would be a space marine inquisition, and the scars plus khan would be an exploration force to find new planets and systems for humanity to colonise.

[@dakotalange2858]

Saw Sanguinius and click as fast as I could

[@BrodieFairhall]

My theory is that post crusade, big E would then get rid of the Mechanicum and Perturabo would be put in charge of all the tech and manufacturing for the Imperium. There wasn't a lot of time and the Mechanicum could do what was required for the crusade, but the religious anti science/innovation/invention stuff basically dooms the imperium to technologically stagnate (like it has).

[@LordGrantius]

I do think you get the Lord of Winter and War wrong in a key aspect. Russ is not a headstrong or impatient hunter. He does not need to be looking for targets. He will not need to prowl like the Lion or roam like the Khan. After the Great Crusade, Russ would return to Fenris, to maintain his legion, to be prepared for anything, but also sitting back and enjoying the sagas the skjalds tell. He would always remain the Emperor's Executioner, but he is a cunning and patient wolf, not a rabid dog

[@MEchanicAL_LSTAR]

Do you have a video on the timeline of the creation of original space marines. I’m assuming seeing if all went well the primarchs would’ve been raised on Terra. So wouldn’t the original marines also be from Terra. Were they born after the creation of the Primarchs or before so when they came of age the legions were ready to go. Would the Terra marines be closer to the what the Primarchs personalities should’ve been like if they hadn’t been scattered?

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Make Perturabo head of Grand Imperial Construction. Have him design and build everything from Grand Theatres and Operas as well as infrastructure and roads.

[@bodricthered]

It's bonkers that they thought there wouldn't be a place for the legions after the crusade, once the galaxy was conquered you've still got to KEEP it. Orks, Aeldari, Tau, Rangdan, Necrons, etc...etc...etc... there's no way they were gonna be thunder warriored.

[@Leifthrasir]

After the crusade, there will still be wars to fight. Orks, and Eldar will still be around. The Tau would never rise to power but the Necrons will certainly still awaken, as well as the arrival of the Tyranids. Plenty of fighting left to do.

[@Knights_Oath]

The Lion: The head of something like the Inquisition just much more sane. Fulgrim: Head of the Arts for the Imperium. Purtarabo: Chief Technologist, who could safely deal with some of the things in The Dark Vaults The Kahn: The Imperiums Quick Reaction Force. He would also speak his mind if he thought the Imperium was going to far. Russ: Would stay in his enforcer role and expand to keeping all Imperial Worlds in line. Dorn: Chief Architect and Interior Minister making sure the Imperium was protected from within and out. Kurze: Either Big E and Malicador would have to find a way to heal his mind. The. He could be the chief Arbites and the execution of the law. Or he would get put in stasis for his well being. Sanguinius: As symbol for the Imperium for the public, and privately would be the counsel and advisor to his brothers and even Big E.

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Jaghatai and Mortarion maybe didn't have a role designed for them, but I do believe the Imperium, the Emperor, needed them to keep his tyrannical nature in check. People who could challenge him.

[@40nerdhdjddhdjjdjdjdjd]

You have to wonder if some of them like Russ, Khan, the Lion, were designed to counter the Tyranids.

[@Erymanthos]

I think the more interesting question is, if the Emperor had planned to keep the Primarchs, but destroy the legions what would the Primarchs have done?

[@ordohereticus5530]

I am willing to bet they would have just stopped the production of marines. The ones that were left would either retire to civilian life and continue policing the Imperium, where they would be whittled down by attrition.

[@Erymanthos]

@@ordohereticus5530 Yeah, you’re probably right. I guess the rationale behind “deleting” the Thunder Warriors was more due to their instability.

[@alastor8091]

I think all Primarchs would have been kept around to police the Imperium. A key feature that nobody touches on with the Astartes and Primarchs is that they provide a sort of link to the past. Many empires forget where they cane from. Just look at the affects of Old Night upon all of the worlds humanity conquered. Without the eternal presence of Space Marines, even Terra itself is forgotten. Space Marines tie the Imperium together in a historical sense. Terra will never fall into myth or out of memory because look! The Angels of the Emperor from the old legends are LITERALLY right there!

[@Irishman1861]

Reacting at time but old lion we have now shown that he wants to teach but is just me as a older fighter now it’s what I see

[@adams5613]

The khan the scout with Johnson the blade behind. Same with Alpharious but internal.

[@volairen]

I think the lion would be a glorified marshal or bounty hunter. Like konrad, bringing fugatives of the imperium to justice. I think perterabo could have taken over the mechanicus as much as he hates them. Jagati would just have bike races of course. Curze would deal with rebellions. Russ would guard the emperor and have drinking contests. Rogal is chief architect obviously. Possibly redesigning hive cities so they weren't hellscapes. Magnus would head the webway like he was intended. Sanguinius would be emperors heir. Roboute guilliman would head the administratum. Fulgrim, LOYAL fulgrim, would probobly worked with ferrus and perterabo.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

The Emperor and Magnus could have cured Konrad Curxe's insanity.

[@anthonyknight1816]

Perto wanted to be a builder/artisan....build the great cities of the galaxy would be his deal. The Khan would be reaching the unknown galaxy. The Lion would be the bounty hunters...the collectors of the wrong-doers. Konrad was meant to be a judge. Rho you are usually so spot on...not sure how you got these guys so wrong.

[@TheLehi5]

i think if konrad is cured, and got his peace. he could be a perfect judge or police chief. and if his legion is not contains psychopaths, murderers, and other nasty stuff. konrad's strong sense of justice could rose from them, and they can learn how to use it well. at lastly the legion could be re-named from night lords, to lords of justice!

[@malb.4107]

Perturabo would have constructed architectural masterpieces beyond human understanding that would serve as both function and inspiration

[@saeyabor]

4:02 what a missed opportunity for a "2nd already retired" joke

[@superkoksu487]

Lion el johnson could train commanders , succesful imperium is the imperum of worlds that can defend themselves long enough for the rest of the imperium to come with aid.

[@macdutte]

Khan would be an Explorer

[@reefa2931]

Horus Heresy Book 9 - Crusade: 'We are the Angels of Darkness, for us there is no peace, no end but war and death. *We shall not walk in the golden hall's of Mankind's future, but stand resolute in the shadows beyond.* While we yet draw breath, this Imperium will not fall, and we will not know defeat, for I pledge every warrior, every drop of blood in the Legion in the name of victory, no matter the cost' The Dark Angels were never meant to dwell permanently in the Imperium, post-Crusade. They are the eternal monster hunters, meant to guard the gates against threats beyond even humanity's own awareness.

[@acewing1]

That first pic of Fulgrim was giving me Henry Cavill vibes... 😅

[@steveforrest1885]

Believing the Emperor would’ve got rid of the space, Marines is ridiculous. The Emperor knew there were frets even if Cast did not exist. Humanity would always rise up somewhere eaup would always spread and so he would always need the legions spread out across the vast Galaxy. If the military decided to rebel he would need the space to put them back down the massive and now we’ve got thousands of chapters, he would need the 20 original legions, to the Galaxy and then sure no one Rose up against him

[@thomasa8814]

They would still need generals and the galaxy is a HUGE place. 20 legions is really not that much to cover billions of stars

[@56aralon]

Would the Emperor have allowed more Space Marines to be created after the Great Crusade, or would he have just let the surviving Marines grow old with no new marines.?

[@Irishman1861]

Perty letting himself create not destroy is all you need to do

[@Cmdtheartist]

Yeah, I think a few Primarchs might have gotten early retirement. An axe blade instead of a gold watch.

[@Dark_Tesla]

Perturabo would have been in City Planning and Architecture.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

WOULD the Tyranids have arrived, though. The overloading of the Pharos Beacon is what attracted them in the first place. Had the Great Crusade succeeded, that never would have happened.

[@thundercrash4775]

Sooner or later, they were going to notice the Astronomicon and come sniffing.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

@@thundercrash4775 Is that supported in the lore or just speculative? I'm genuinely curious as I am a dyed in the wool lore bro.

[@thundercrash4775]

@@UncleMikeDrop pure speculation on my part, but I think it's reasonable.

[@UncleMikeDrop]

@@thundercrash4775 Possibly, I guess.

[@WShoup9818]

​@@UncleMikeDropit's partially supported by the lore because the silent king travels and return to the milky way support the nids where slowly approaching. If he was telling the truth and actually met sang when he talked to Dante than it had to be before the heresy because I don't know when they could have met during it.

[@jorahtheexplorer3262]

Jaghatai would walk off up the mountains and train lone wanderers to be warriors without peer like all wise old men in Asian films....

[@OK-hl6qd]

6:11 nightmare fuel ! 😂

[@Yandarval]

How would Big E have killed the legions off. Its not as if 10k Custodes will make much of a dent in millions of legionnares. The Thunder Warriors did not have the ships, vehicles or armour of the LA. Its a lot easier to kill somone when Thunder Warrior's has no armour on the back?

[@VectorGhost]

Sanguinus was implied be the successor to the emperor. Easily the obvious choice

[@jrid369]

The Lion would be a Monster/Xenos hunter.