Primaris Reivers: do they SUCK or can they be SAVED? Unit Review in Codex Space Marines 10th Edition

[@jarrakul]

Personally I just want to know what "master-craftsman" decided to remove the AP from the reiver lieutenant's special-issue bolt pistol.

[@gregtso7505]

I think the Phobos Cpt had a similar issue for a bit with his instigator carbihe.

[@thelegendsmith3063]

The ap changes in general what's nuts if they use to be ap 2 so they should be ap 1 not 0 was a severe oversight especially with hounds of morkai who have no other weapon options

[@Pathetic-Cards]

Same.

[@editor2766]

Listen its hard to craft a bolt pistol to fire nerf rounds.

[@FreyjaKatraValentine]

Two things: Reivers can have both grav chutes and grapnel launchers, not one or the other. They hand out a battle shock test to EACH unit within engagement range, not just one No need to make them worse than they are.

[@AfroChef]

I always find it weird most people talking about reivers say its either or but unless I'm mistaken they have always been one or another

[@Eagle343]

It doesn't explicitly say they replace each other on the datasheet from what I see. Definitely says all models can have grapnels/chutes equipped

[@chriscurry761]

They can have both, 9th each option was an upgraded so most players would only pay to have one vs 2. This free equipment in 10th forces you to either buy more or hopefully kept the extra parts.

[@Youschnoob649]

Awesome so they can jump over a wall after they deepstrike and do nothing 🙂

[@DemoMan465]

​@Yodiscat.111 bo ho, one of my 100s of unique units isn't good. Such a sad day for marine players. That's how I honestly feel about this topic.

[@hickorybane9323]

They make great kitbashes with those poses. I turned the running one into a solid Ragnar proxy cause I just don't love his model but wanted it to be recognizable

[@Bluecho4]

I was thinking give them a bunch of bits for bat-wing imagery and flayed skins, and make them into Night Lords Legionaires. You can even justify it by saying they looted a bunch of Phobos armor from murdered foes or snuck onto a forge world that manufactures them. Ave Dominus Nox.

[@GoblinWizardry]

I said it before and i say it again. Make Reivers the Phobos anti-elites, they are clearly represented alot in art work cause lets be honest, they are dope as hell! We already have ton of phobos anti-chaff, cause that role is generally filled by the average phobos marine, unless you are fighting a horde. I dont think anyone would mind Reivers being stronger and more expensive, make them cool GW!

[@dr.stronk9857]

I recently edited the Julius Caesar painting to have reiver heads over the dudes stabbing Julius Caesar because that’s honestly how I imagine them fighting

[@KululuR08]

early in 10th i actually found a decent amount of success using them to deep strike and grab the enemy's home obj, though they've largely been replaced by Inceptors in that role now

[@GenGross]

I love deep striking them with a Phobos LT. They are great for grabbing secondaries and doing additional shenanigans in my Vanguard List. I found them to be very successful

[@dragonet111]

I think if I were to use those models it would be a base for some primaris size death company with jump pack, the skull mask and the phobos armour would fit well with what I want my army to look like

[@Pentanex8]

In first company task force you could combine the terrifying proficiency strat with their fearsome assault and force 2 battleshock tests, 1 at start of fight phase against anything in melee and another after killing a model to anything within 6". Combined with their -1 to tests aura and the fear made manifest enhancement they could probably cause a fair bit of disruption

[@Nerodarkangel7]

I’ve made use of that combo using deathwatch terminators since they do battleshock on charge to ok effect

[@RBTGames]

Ok but at this point in the turn what food does that do?

[@Nerodarkangel7]

@@RBTGames well if you run the enhancement it can kill non vehicle and monster models outright on a failed battleshock test.

[@Nerodarkangel7]

@@RBTGames ain’t super competitive but had it kill some wraiths and destroyers on the charge making clearing the units a bunch easier. Also killed abbydon and two termies on the charge the other day when that’s what was left of the unit lol

[@Minilopo18]

Try and add greyfax to a battleline unit nearby. Terrible use of points but might as well go full fear factor if we go that far anyway

[@TrippyGame]

Tbh giving the reivers AP -1 on their combat knives and bolt carbines would give them a huge incentive of use over what they're currently at, basically making them be equivalent to veteran scouts at that point. Another option of course would be to have assault on the bolt carbines like the scout shotguns, makes them scarier character hunters and also gives them plenty of secondary potential. They're still more expensive than scouts so you're paying for the deep strike, extra character attachment options, and the now stronger weapons, but it makes them fill a pretty good niche imo. I'm definitely going to be trying to make use of them in crusade just to see what I can pull off

[@isaacchapman7628]

I don't care if they're good or bad. I just want an Interrogator Chaplain in Reiver armor that can join and make them even more traumatic.

[@ianmohr4183]

If you give the Reiver Lieutenant the enhancement for Infiltrating you can forward deploy a blob of 10 reivers lead by him and since he also scouts 6" you can pregame move forward to guarantee a turn 1 charge. It's basically 46 attacks with precision but low AP. And if you go second, have a cheeky phobos captain in the list to redeploy them.

[@stephenwitham]

That feels like a waste of Blade, though. Much rather have that on a terminator chaplain and a unit of thunder hammer terminators.

[@Youschnoob649]

Interesting, but is that how you want to use that enhancement though ?

[@owenhouck5281]

@@Youschnoob649it could be if you like using only Phobos and Scout units in the vanguard company. I personally use that detachment and use almost nothing but Phobos units but I do have one unit of 6 BGV and a lieutenant to really gum up a scary melee unit that I don’t want barreling down the board too quickly while my other guys try to grab primaries and secondaries and really out score my opponent

[@ianmohr4183]

I agree it's not as good as other options. But it's a fun trick since he has scout so the unit can still pregame move. If the meta ever starts running super powerful T3 characters with low saves that are hiding behind a unit, then it might actually be more useful than entertaining lol

[@Youschnoob649]

@@owenhouck5281yeah if you want a fun fluffy list then they are great. Personally I love the look of them and prefer Phobos or Gravis armour over the regular one

[@jono_cc2258]

Make the pistols the same as the Apothecary’s one, short range, hard hitting, gives them something different and add AP -1 to the combat blades. For the Carbines, maybe drop the range by 6” and make them 3 shots, unfortunately they don’t really synergise with the leadership debuffs but that’s sort of tricky for a unit with any reasonable range on their attacks.

[@falsehero2001]

Their best utility used to be Shock Grenade, especially back in 8th. Having an ability to shut down over watch was pretty good for helping themselves and other melee units safely charge. I teamed a squad of Reivers along side a jump Chaplain and some vanguard vets to good effect.

[@RBTGames]

Is there a single "no overwatch" effect in 10e?

[@Aliashavoc]

Love the models, hate their rules 😅

[@xeroprotagonist]

The one important use I thought they had when I was first looking into maybe getting an army together for 10th is that they're IIRC the ONLY Space Marine squads with Deep Strike that also only take up one spot per model inside a Thunderhawk. If you're building an army around a Thunderhawk, and you want it to carry enough units to contest multiple objectives, and you want to use its Aerial Assault ability, then you can pack multiple 5-man units of Reivers in it and still have room for some Terminators. And if you've got a Thunderhawk eating up almost half the points in your army then you probably actually do want some cheap horde-clearing units that can also assassinate characters. Also if I'm reading this right you could potentially start the Thunderhawk in hover, then on turn 1 move 20", disembark a squad of Reivers led by a Phobos Lieutenant, make a D6" move after shooting, and then also charge thanks to the Thunderhawk's ability, while ignoring any vertical distances - seems like some pretty crazy mobility.

[@EvilBearWargames]

i run just phobos when i cxan, the reivers are frustratingly bad, they get these cool models then lumped with bad weapons. GW have 2 options i feel, produce ans upgrade sprue for them, or upgrade the rules. - simple thing would be rules - drop the mask rules and rethink them - maybe they do mortal wounds on the charge, or force a battle shock test to charge them, or some other cool rule, the combat blade is another issue, these blades are meant to be huge, it would take very little to call them phase blades and just have people if they wish paint the blades green or something, with an ability where they can choose what power mode and this gives alternative key words, for example they could slce trough armour with ease or cause multiple wounds. an elete unit like this should be good at scaring low infantry but designed to target multi would problem units or high armour units (phase blade ower options) as for upgrade sprue this could be stuff like a melta in exchange for a carbine, or lightning claw in exchange for a combat blade. other ideas are that maybe the mask causes mortal wounds on wizzardy models when charged, or special ammo like the space wolf flavour. great models - shit rules also why is the reaver LT so non reiver like with equipment !! whats going on there, he is unable to keep up with his reavers !! very odd.

[@DJCallidus]

I quite like the miniatures and the Reaver Lieutenant but they've never been worth their slot. Although they don't take up an "Elite" or "HQ" slot anymore, there are better options. When competing I prefer Infiltrators or Incursors because my opponents dont really feel the Ld debuffs. Played the Lieutenant and a 5 man squad in crusade and they did well against a cultist heavy Alpha Legion list.

[@RevanR]

I think they can be saved. Just change the Bolt carbine from (precision) to (suppression) (entangled 1) so their range can stall the enemies movement, meanwhile Special issue bolt pistol replace (precision) to (anti-infantry 4+) (devastating wounds) and Combat knife get (devastating wounds) in addition to (precision)

[@anexistanthuman2435]

"just add dev wounds" is a surefire way to make anything put out way more damage than it reasonably should, especially with their volume of attacks.

[@lukhinio3200]

Revier lieutenant should have the same - 1 AP pistol like reivers instead 0 x] ¡? And he should gives some crits to his own unit. Like sustained on 5+

[@elijahherstal776]

Reivers are one of those things that should be awesome, but GW seems to actively find ways to make them progressively worse. And plenty of people will give me some roundabout way they're kinda possibly useful- but there's always several ways to do that exact thing, but better. Reivers are useful if you're playing against someone who wants to let you win. Otherwise, their only use is to proxy as Incursors with a little kitbashing. Sad thing is, I actually like them fluff-wise and appearance-wise.

[@xerty5502]

It's the lack of ap that really let's most of the phobos units down. They just have trouble with things with saves and adding more devastating wounds is not a good answer that rule is still one of the biggest problem rules in 10th Ed even with the changes made they acualy do decently in fighting off light fast units. Infiltrators and incursors have yhe same problems and the rivers are probably straight up the best use of the phobos lieutenant and it is not close. Deep strike is worth the trade of the haywire mine on incursors and while terror trrop stuff is not as good as the +1 to hit that incursors can give out they are still basically equilvent. In the vanguard detachment the ease of getting them off the board to use deep strike again makes them straight up better then incursors the problem is scouts exist then again scouts do not have deep strike so are less useful coming out of reserve then reivers.. the reiver lt is straight up awful however if he could take a gravshute he would be fine but he can't so nope. My conclusion is that if you are going full hog into a vanguard phobos msu list they are acyaly worth thinking about otherwise they are probably not worth it any where else jump interssors are the better option and even there being able to take shike if you go for raven gaurd makes jump intercessors a better option at least for one unit.so if you have already taken 3 scout squads and are thinking of adding another phobos unit in a vanguard list they are worth thinking about compared to incursors especially if you are willing to shell out for a phobos lt. Any were else neither unit is particuraly interesting. They do kill gaurdsman and gargoyles and cultist with ease and are quite decent at handling a lot of the small mission units any none marine (chaos or loylist) list can use.

[@cruelmole]

They should have similar battleshock rules to the neuro lictor. Give them bonuses and more survivability vs battleshocked units. Give them some damn AP on their equipment and they might start being worth a damn.

[@Smilomaniac]

Removing combat squad’ing hurt since you could spam them. Having 6x5 units of them was (end of 9th) a relatively cheap table flood and while they were never great at taking anything down, they’re not harmless either. Add mobility (deepstrike+ignore terrain) and you had some decent objective contesters. Aren’t the new assault intercessors as cheap though? In which case you get better melee and movement at the cost of slightly worse pistols and useless unit abilities. The phobos Lt thing is interesting bit as potentially powerful as it is, it’s also swingy, but the lethal hits he gives the whole unit to all weapons is interesting, just a shame none of it has AP. Ultimately they’re still just outplayed by other choices for various reasons. If GW had balls to make morale meaningful it’d be different.

[@wisecrack4545]

Sadly even the Assault intercessors pistols are actually better than the Reivers as they are range 18" whilst Reivers are still stuck with 12" Otherwise both have same S4, Ap-1 and damage 1. Chainswords are AP-1 over reiver combat knives which are AP0. Assault intercessors are 10 points cheaper than the Reiver unit. Have double OC and get to re-roll 1's in melee or all wounds in melee vs targets on objectives. Reivers instead get scout/access to deep strike and the grapple ignore vertical move, whilst throwing out battleshock tests in melee. In short, only thing Reivers really have going for them is the extra mobility. Offensive wise they're weaker than Assault intercessors and they're they same defensively. GW making morale meaningful is almost never going to happen. They've been making it less and less relevant ever since 5th edition, where GW decided to 'streamline' the game and got rid of most leadership tests and negative modifiers that used to exist in 3rd/4th.

[@butcherbird4195]

The fact that the Reiver LT can't deep strike is ludicrous.

[@lukhinio3200]

Best thing that in new SM codex GW put reiver lieutenant built with grav chutes but no i rules xD

[@Nadalag]

Best use for Reivers is to kitbash them into Infiltrators, incursors and/or eliminators... now even into fancy jump-pack 'cessors

[@Mr39hope]

Im gonna guess... Gladius Task Force, phobos lieutenant with "Fire Discipline" in a unit of 10 reivers to kill characters by deep striking really close and then running away. Pls let me right...

[@abrohm2983]

Men would rather do anything than the space wolf index review

[@scotttopic]

i think it wouldn't be too game breaking to give Reiver Lt deep strike and give his attached unit Devastating Wounds. could make the base reivers function more like Hounds and give you a reason to take Reiver Lt.

[@definitelynotanork9520]

I will say, the best thing I can see in reivers is as a vanguard detachment tactical objective monkey, using the retreat from charges to keep them from getting too badly hammered

[@gordonfreeman2023]

Also they're the only phobos units with deep strike, so you could run 2 as action monkeys, teleporting them around the board doing objectives via the return to reserves strat

[@galef_sabers_n_more]

The best use of Reivers are as conversions for other units. Those skull masks are dope.

[@MrHalonoob117]

Man I’ve never clicked on a video with “no views” before. I minus well take this chance to say thank you for the consistency amazing content!

[@steelgear3876]

It was a 105 views by the time I saw it.

[@SimonCarpio09]

Minus well?

[@Gongolongo]

Minus well ☠️

[@johnlowkey359]

It's a doggy dog world, and if you can't beat them you minus well join them!

[@bennyb.1742]

Oh man. Petitetube! It just shows you random zero view videos.

[@thevix9794]

But Reivers already had a use: Giving good bits for really cool JJ assault intercessors

[@luckylarry71]

Honestly, the best thing that comes out of their sprue, is that you can kitbash them into more Incursors models and use the leftover heads to kitbash a Chaplain and Judiciar.

[@gordonfreeman2023]

They have one potential niche: they're the only phobos unit with deep strike. In Vanguard spearhead, you can use the return to reserve strat on them to yeet two of them wherever needed

[@KokNoker]

A piece of me wants to say that the new jump pack unit does this better, but you're probably onto something if you include the Phobos Leuitenant in the unit. I can see this as an annoying unit that isn't worth the time to attack, but has to be addressed.

[@slaynnmortis2195]

​@@KokNokerI see... "I won't attack those reivers, they are top weak... But, if I don't do it... Maybe they'll take a free objective durant next turn..." I would like to have a warsuit near them, making the following réflexion: "Aaaah.... Easy prey! Or not..."

[@gordonfreeman2023]

@@KokNokerIt also helps that the Lieutenant's move after shooting ability doesn't prevent them from charging, so if you want to use them to tie up something for a turn, it's not a 9" charge.

[@dittmar104]

I still don't understand why they have to choose between their weapons. Chosen don't so it seems fair enough for these shock troops to go in loaded to the teeth.

[@bptabata]

I think there are a couple of key points really missed in the video: Battleshock: Start of fight phase battleshock is actually very nice for your opponents turn. It can be a deterrent for them to send 1 squad to steal an objective. I've swung games where my Reivers had stolen a side objective and the 1 unit my opponent sends to my side charges and then becomes battleshocked. It stops them from stealing the objective at the end of the turn and then they remain battleshocked on my turn. This also lets reivers take advantage of any +ap strats in various detachments. I use them a lot in Champions of Russ. BS the enemy so I can then use Go for the Throat for extra AP when I know my opponent cant armor of contempt swings the combat just enough. The battleshock is also amazing at stealing the home objective in my turn to complete Saga of Majesty. Layering the BS with other sources makes the strat more reliable too. Reivers w/ Lt getting close, 2 hound packs can lend BS as well, but a Whirlwind support fire and you can force a lot of BS tests on a key unit. Grapnel Launchers: They confer the movement to the unit, so Leaders benefit here too. If you play on tall terrain boards, carbine reivers can Jump to the top floor, plunging fire, then the Lt can drop them back down to the first floor even if you roll a 1" on the move. If you get plunging fire AP or (go up to AP 2 with Strike from the Shadows) you will threaten SM characters. Even if they dont kill, plinking a wound or two of a character puts them in a very serious danger zone where a single eliminator can knock them out with a 6 devastating wound. All of this combined Reivers are still great at scoring secondaries. And they are very useful in hunting down lone operatives and the lone objective holders your opponent has on the flanks.

[@joshuaginn792]

Great comment.

[@Handedamagnum]

The best use for Reivers is Kill Team, where they're superb and play exactly like they should do. Getting everywhere with grav chutes and grapnels, disrupting opponent's plays with terror tactics, and murdering with abandon

[@philurbaniak1811]

Deep strike and charge looks solid 👍

[@worldgoneawry8906]

I absolutely love the Phobos armor. Ever since I was a kid I thought the "bell bottoms" on space marines looked stupid and decidedly un-tactical. I use the reiver and infiltrator bodies as much as possible for kitbashing my 40k Deathwatch army and kill team.

[@Josco83]

They’re cheap, readily available, and don’t have many other uses. Perfect basing material!

[@jaegerbomb269]

I love the Reivers look, personal favorite unit, and why i got into the table top game. Yet game play wise, I know they're not good. Nice effort, though 👏

[@Dobonhonkero42]

i think maybe giving them anti character on their weapons on top of precision might help give them more of a place. Try to make them have more of an assassin feel rather than the weird no where ground they stand on.

[@pvrhye]

Freebie grenade strat might make them work without making their points weirdly low.

[@ancientmariner9460]

In Gladius - fielding them with Librarian + Fire Discipline + Bolt Carabine and using that -1 AP stratgem to hunt down characters/light units while being safe from enemy fire; In Gladius - fielding them with Captain + Lieutenant + Fire Discipline + Bolt Carabine and using that -1 AP stratgem to hunt down characters and basically everything thanks to 5+ critt+lethal hits+sustained hits 1; In Gladius - deep striking them with Lieutenant + Fire Discipline + pistols + maybe using that -1 AP stratgem to hunt down characters. Firestorm - deep striking them with probably a Lieutenant without any enchancments + pistols + Crucible of battle to hunt down characters + assault and +1S. They ain't the best unit but I think that deep strike + terror, which affects EVERY unit within 6'' and potentialy prohibits use of stratgems which might make it a lot easier/safer for other units, they are more of a disruptive unit. Probably best used in Gladius due to buckets of die thrown at enemy and his characters/light infantry (although I saw them ripping to shreads even tougher targets due to the number of hits) Seem also good with Firestorm thanks to strength, wound buffs and assault. I still will use at least 5 of them for fun and to annoy enemy, they could use a little buff though.

[@mraide]

I love the models, and reading everyones comments I have a good idea how to use them thank you Auspex Tactics and all that have commented

[@1onebegger]

I used mine to kitbash some Black Dragon Intercessors with Jump Packs... now I am glad I did!

[@cademiksek6769]

With all the reiver videos auspex has been doing lately, i have a feeling i know what detachment his space marines are running...

[@snakehorde]

If battleshock is supposed to represent panic then I'd suggest utilizing the three basic responses to threat we know off : fight, flight, fascination. The one player under battleshock gets to choose between several responses either their units flee with all their movement plus 2D6 and can only do this for the whole next round ; or the unit must engage in melee or fire all guns on unit closest with - 1 to hit and can only do that ; or the unit passes their turn and are - 2 to hit... Then how do you make terror regiments? Easier to proc battleshock / the oppressor chooses the action of the feared unit / they gain bonus damage against battleshock unit. If the players and tournament still don't use moral then make insane bravery and battleshock healing either more taxing in CP or requiring another character nearby...

[@Jason-wh7in]

They should allow reivers to equip both the knives and the carbines since neither is setting the world on fire. They should also give their attacks ap-1 when they charge and successfully battleshock an infantry unit. In a gladius detachment, they can potentially get scary when combined with honour the chapter for +1 to wound and additional ap, but only get ap-2 on an infantry unit that was battleshocked first.

[@Darkaltaris]

Ive realized reivers ignore the vertical distance of terrain features that fly does not. With plunging fire adding -1 ap to their weapons, Ive realized reviers are decent for high and heave terrain games. Especially for rocky terrain that isnt breachable like ruins.

[@wisecrack4545]

This. That ignore vertical move is easily the most overlooked part of the unit. It lets you jump up to the top floor of a building from ground and vice versa with no loss in movement. Combo with any move enhancing ability (anything with advance and shoot or charge, Phobos Lt for the shoot and move ability, etc) or stratagem and your Reivers can cover a lot more ground than your opponent might have planned for. Plus, I'll add in that when Reivers with carbines are taken in Deathwatch detachments they can get Kraken ammo for the extra -1 AP and 6" range. Get plunging fire into effect too and you've got yourself 2 Ap-2 precision shots at 30" range per model Suddenly that unit becomes very deadly to character units. The Vanguard detachment Strike from the Shadows strat also does something similar, with +1BS and extra AP-1 (AP-2 with plunging) plus a Battleshock test on the target if you kill a model. Again, something enemy characters will actually fear. Meanwhile the Sallies detachment +1 Strength within 12" and 'assault' keyword on those carbines means you can advance and shoot with all the usual reiver move shenanigans, usually pull off salvos of S5 carbine fire and if plunging fire is in effect, Ap-1 too. Again, that can be scary for a lot of enemy units. Pair either of those with standard Phobos Lt for shoot and scoot rule, you can troll hard like Tau or Eldar used to do in past editions by popping up from behind cover, shooting and then ducking back down again. I won't say the unit is anywhere near top tier, but when played right its far from bad.

[@Darkaltaris]

@@wisecrack4545I didnt think of that. you just gave me a whole load of things i want to try. I know decent un-meta builds tend to mess with meta players.

[@wisecrack4545]

​@@Darkaltaris Yeah, messing with meta players is all sorts of fun. I rarely get a chance to play in tournaments these days, but used to have a lot of fun playing low tier lists full of bottom tier units for the challenge of seeing if I could win with them. It really taught me how to get the best out of even the weakest units, as well as things like target priority and crucial movement, identifying critical weak points in the opposing force, causing as much disruption as I could. Thinking ahead for combos and counter moves. Playing with a handicap like that forces you to learn every trick in the book and then some. I've pulled off some hilarious upsets over the years that no-one ever saw coming.

[@Darkaltaris]

@@wisecrack4545See youre the kind of player I like. I wish there were more of you in just about every competitive setting. Where the skill out shines meta. Keeps so much fresh. I try to be that, but im a still a newb, so i just rule of cool and try to win.

[@jasonuerkvitz3756]

I had intended them for a future Raven Guard army I've been slowly piecing together. I had gotten the Kayvaan Shrike model sometime after picking up the Reivers and thought that there had to be some sort of army idea there. I've since collected the Combat Patrol that contained the Phobos Lieutenant with the grav-chute and the Infiltrators. That being said, I was surprised you didn't list them as working well in a Raven Guard army at all. It certainly seemed thematic.

[@TsundeReaper989]

Unfortunately most people don’t play Raven Guard by theme. Most people want to use their redeploy shenanigans to abuse stronger units instead of flavor and fluff. I personally run only Phobos in my RG and refuse to use any other armor type

[@shakyrob6512]

Well they look cool. So what you do is paint them really really well, like masterclass, better than the rest of your army. Then you drop them somewhere front and center where they will draw the eye maybe high up on a terrain center piece where they wont be effective at all but very visual. This will get whoever you're playing talking about them. They won't blast them off the board because they aren't a threat. But they are a threat because they will distract your opponent who will be too busy talking about them. How cool they are. The paint job. The tragic badness of the rules. While not doing as much as they could each turn. Even making misplays.

[@alias-yv2ro]

I wouldn’t say they’re “neglected” I think it’s more like they fill a niche role that really isn’t very strong now. They’re a sick sculpt, and GW clearly has a role for them

[@bjwal6]

I’m very curious to hear what you think their role is. Being frightening is not a role.

[@alias-yv2ro]

@@bjwal6 probably just that xd, mobile battleshock inducers for cheeky primary objectives and grabbing secondaries, which is why i said its a niche role

[@paulshaw3907]

@@bjwal6 Hunting T3 leader models and chaff. Ap isn't really an issue because how many 4+ can a Farseer make when hit with 30-40. The problem is that people factor in T3 (leader) models being easy targets

[@elijahherstal776]

I wouldn't say they're neglected. I'd say they're outright abused. And making excuses for GW's poor rules writing is not a good look for anyone.

[@louislecigne1066]

The reiver + phobos lt combo is perfect for hunting a callidus assassin before he can use his ability to disrupt your main stratagem with a +1cp cost. You basicly pop and stomp it statistically with her 4W at T4 with 4++

[@ivanjoyce86]

Perhaps downing its general damage output and focused on terror and execution. They should either add dedicated power on prefer target like anti-HQ or extra Ap if all precision. Or simply amp up its battle shock effect to trigger with more frequency. Or force reroll a pass battle shock

[@HelterSkelter199]

At minimum hey need a way to trigger battle-shock during the enemy turn reliably. Triggering the test at the start of movement phases instead of fight phases to prevent them falling back to dodge the test but remain on an objective would be a start. Not sure its enough, but at least would force a choice. Maybe a wargear (shock grenade) that would force a battle-shock test on a unit during the opp command phase à la shadow in the warp. That might need to be one time use, or even once per battle, for balance.

[@nicholasharmer7415]

One point on the phobos lieutenant combo is that you can't use a command re-roll on the lieutenant's free D6" move. It's not technically an advance roll, and the command re-roll stratagem doesn't allow a re-roll on a normal move. It's still a good combo - with some re-roll source, an 8" charge is still very good odds!

[@Silverdragon83X]

The main problem about the reivers still stays the same, the lack of punching power. Give the sergeant the options of power fist and thunder hammer and they would instantly be so much better!

[@nickh8106]

What could be fun is Vanguard detachment then a 10man Squad of these with Bolters, Phobos LT, Phobos Captain and stay at >12“ - 24“ to shot with them and youse the „Strike from the Shadows“ stratagem to Snipe Characters or kill Hords. All these for 305Points that could hold mid or backfield with Move Shot Move or dont take the LT and give the Captain the Execute and redeploy upgrade for 20Points then you are at 270Points total. Not great but maybe fun

[@eland86]

I've got 5-man and a lieutenant since the previous edition of Killteam and they perfectly completed one serious task in 10th: filled the gap after price choping. And done it a second time after dataslate! After painting any other fitting unit, I can get rid of them completely.

[@Icarus_789]

They look like cool minis but for game rules are just bad. The good support for them is better suited on any other phobos unit. If there was a space marine detachment that focused on battleshock then maybe they would have a place but space marines as a faction does not lean into that at all unlike tyranids or chaos knights. If their base states were what the space wolves variant got then they might be considered for doing actions but as it stands they and their LT are just bad rules for cool looking minis.

[@solvdrage1456]

I think Battleshock needs a small addendum to have the impact GW wants it to. Basically, Battleshocked units should have to make a leadership check in order ro regroup. That change would help not just Reivers but Tyranids and Chaos Knights.

[@dragonling748]

I love the aesthetic, grav wings, tacticool bolters, skull masks! Excellent. I run these guys as exactly what they are, hit and run, ambush, terror troops, in a squad of 10, I give one a common cloak and a Sniper, one probable heavy weapon, like a melta, I add in a few special weapons here and there. I also add silencers to the bolt guns It makes the squad feel like they're sent out with no support and expected to get things done however they deem necessary. And I imagine fighting them feels like fighting a predator.

[@TheSilverDragon1]

I really like the hounds for our detachment. There are not many units that have precision and devastating wounds, so it really can help getting our sagas unlocked since they can kill most HQs in the game.

[@4sparta968]

I just did a Reiver Lt custom and was looking forward to getting a squad for him. Damn it

[@Ownuout]

I’m not the best at lore but would be cool if they were a special operations unit trained by the Assassins faction and had some scary strong infiltrate, subterfuge and assassinate skills. That is what they’re models look like and kinda what I was hoping for.

[@DartmoorAR]

Such cool looking, highly customisable models. GW give them some love - just a little!

[@stephenwitham]

I've been talking about this exact combination for some time, as the only viable use for Reiver. WIth the Vanguard, they're also useable for uppy downy deep striking with guerrilla warfare.

[@ChopsTV]

I've been running Hounds with a phobos lieutenant as a pysker threat and then just using them as (expensive) action monkeys or as a really annoying unit to just plink some wounds off infantry while being very hard to catch. I'm running Stormlance detachment and equipping the lieutenant with the "fall back and shoot" enhancement seems like a solid plan for a VERY annoyingly mobile unit.

[@Mooney_the_Filthy_Casual]

1.) you can use their helmets to kitbash chaplain grimaldus to look more like the helsreach movie.

[@Sanctjud]

GW could also change the Terror Troop rules to just auto fail any unit within X" range, which includes friendly models. Why friendly models? So that Dark Angels in Unforgiven Taskforce can have some kind of control of their boosted Enhancement/Stratagems when Battleshocked. XD Or, when they deep strike in, they are so scary, one enemy unit takes a battleshock test, then you can tell the opponent to move an infantry unit D6" directly away from the Reiver unit, full 6" if they fail.

[@PeterButchens]

The infiltrator/incursor split is what killed the reviers from the getgo. No point in fielding them. Would be better if you just had one shooty/troup phobos and one melee/elite phobos. Like, give the rievers the deep strike denial instead of morale rules (to represent that their area is 'scary' to deploy in) and a bit better melee. And make the other phobos unit a mix if Infiltrators/Incursors, with all these gimmicks like the mines, medpacks, etc. but no deep strike denial (that marked target rule instead is more than fine).

[@MinePurpose]

Instead of making incursors they should have given reivers the incursors rules and wargear on top of what they do now.

[@Ryanime1986]

the only time i've seen them be effective was at one of the LGS's, there tended to be taller buildings used commonly. So they had a 5 man deepstrike in, they had carbines, and just shot up the taller buildings and used plunging fire and really just to annoy reinforcement ranges. Not amazing, but they sorta did somthing atleast.

[@matthewheather6911]

I used reivers in a list that ran three whirlwinds, and with the -1 to leadership I can safely say they help fail battleshocks

[@nicoleandscottnelson3933]

Reivers are outstanding with a LT... drop in... shoot and move D6... then charge, ignoring terrain (like old flying)

[@marcuslangford4679]

Strike from the shadows is quite good with them, from the Vanguard spearhead detachment. +1 bs and -1 ap with precision makes it an okay sniper unit for 1cp.

[@evanfish4505]

At least hounds of morkai take advantage of the precision hits since they have Anti-Psyker 4+

[@lukhinio3200]

And devastating wounds or its deleted now?

[@christophertnugent9100]

posting after I watched the video: "I used mine from the space wolves box to make incursors after using a different box to make infiltrators."

[@winterwolfcr7]

I have been running my Hounds of Markai in my SW faction. Mostly playing crusade. I'll admit I mostly run them cause they are some of my first SW units that I painted and I really want them to work. They aren't the best. Though they've had some good moments. Like when in a normal game they nearly killed Magnus in one round. And only really failed because they were down a model or two. I think they can be more effective running with a Phobos Lib. I was trying the Phobos LT, but I noticed that those lethal hits actually got in the way of wanting devastating wounds.

[@RedCometNurse]

They have a weird interaction with the Anvil Siege Force when they have the Phobos LT. They would get out of sequence movement, which helps that detachment's shooting. The problem is, Infiltrators do that much better with the Phobos LT, and they have Heavy weapons to gain even better results from their guns. So... unfortunately, the Reivers are just even less needed.

[@DavidBretton]

The reiver lt would gain deepstrike, as the wording is "all models in the unit gain deepstrike" and once attache, he's a model in the unit. I would still goPhobos lt, though

[@slaynnmortis2195]

Opinion to make them better: Battleshok on aura 6" with malus. Melee weapon AP-1 Long range weapon with more attacks AP-1 and precision. Now we talk

[@dote9079]

Never seen the bolt carbine before, love that forward handle

[@Xynth25]

The best use of Reivers is as a bits source for those skull helms.

[@MrTappers7]

I honestly feel like their biggest problems are their weapons and their rules. If they had better weapons like ap-1 on their bolt carbine and ap-1 on their combat blade plus maybe and extra attack could help. Or maybe just give them the option for some weapon upgrades like chainswords or power weapons. Their rules could be better though maybe not as fluffy as an objective denial unit using their "terror aura" to reduce oc of enemy units. If you could deep strike them near or on an objective and have them deny enemy control or just reduce their oc to the point where an objective can be contested could be a useful toolbox option for this unit. Granted this all probably couldn't save them as there are too many good marine options.

[@brenden1477]

Reavers, infiltrators and incursors should have all been one datasheet with different utilities such as taking the grav-chute makes them an assault variant, incursors with their mines being an anti deep strike unit and infiltrators being an objective scoring unit…….I never understood having the 3 different data sheets bloating the spacemarine codex even further.

[@NikolayMIA]

10 reivers with lieutenant, deathwatch teleport for deepstrike, deathwatch tactics for sustained hits on top of lethal hits and precision, and probably thieve of secrets for d2 -1 ap s5 lieutenant knife

[@XMan-mi6gs]

You have a lot of codex stuff with killing characters. I play crusade and then you can get nice xp points with that and in some Tyranic war missions extra VP. Combined in Vanguard detach maybe a nice unit for character hunting. Especially Astra, Necrons, GSC… Nice horde blobs with characters! My thoughts.

[@coldsteel.and.courage]

The solo lieutenant in Phobos armour can also shoot, scoot, and charge. He's a threat to those pesky 40ish point chaff units out there.

[@eshsavage6784]

Actions. Thats it, come out of deepstrike get engage, behind enemy lines, deploy teleport homer etc. Cheap deep striking units and if your running vanguard spearhead you can pick them up if they aren’t dead and bring them down next turn.

[@rodrigogarcia114]

Not that it changes anything, but the "morale check" is on the "start of fight phase", it doesnt specify if its your turn or not. So, i do guess, they can make an enemy that charges then to "battleshock" potentially making then survive that fight phase. Unlike Assault Terminators that specify then they charge.

[@The_Blackshield]

I always wanted to try a combat squad of them in a Spectrus Kill Team in 9th edition, to come on later in the game and harass back field units and objectives, and as they'd be Troops they'd also be scoring. But I never got the chance.

[@The_Blackshield]

There was also a typo in the Deathwatch datasheet for them, where their pistols had three shots each. They should have kept that.

[@ironbark8485]

I had the same idea with the reivers and a phobos lieutenant, but I never had a chance to try it out.

[@cytorakdemon]

"They're not very good." I'm aware, but they look cool so... **adds them to army**

[@ryankyle2467]

QUESTION: Does anyone know of any named characters for Imperial Fest (that’s still alive after the Horus Heresy but doesn’t have a good model already) in this or similar armor? All the characters I know of as of now that are alive in this chapter don’t wear this armor!?!

[@isawaryokage]

They're not bad next to the lion to help him stop a key strat with the -1 lds

[@AsgardMedic]

Been waiting for the remake of this :D It's just sad how low they are compared to other phobos units. And a big thanks for mentioning the hounds :D

[@joshy7759]

If you take ten of them and use the speed, instead of a first turn charge, to totally surround a mob they'll have -1 to desperate escape. If they were threatening enough to force a retreat...

[@SgtDax]

I wonder if the rules could support "Anti-Battleshocked 4+"?

[@AnalogBass]

+deb wounds, would be nice, we can give up precision for that )))

[@Exarch01]

Put 30 of them in a Thunderhawk. They can charge out of it after it's moved, and only occupy 1 capacity slot each.

[@Ragnarrawr]

has nobody considered using reivers in tandem with infernus marines to force a battleshock test and then have it taken at -1 from the reivers, having the majority of units in the game take it at Ld8 makes for more successes than fails and it could be an easy way to steal objectives from units while also preventing stratagem uses on them