Problems forming 300 Blackout brass??? Why results may vary.

[@daveb9370]

I was talking about this to a friend who just built one. I gave him some reloads, most formed from 223 using a Lee resizing die. I use the Lee die sets. My guns chamber them fine but his is near the minimum. I asked him to measure factory rounds to mine, and he came up with .003-.004 larger at the base of the case. You explain it much better than I did. Thank you.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Awesome, glad you were able to get some use out of it and thanks for watching!

[@ArMongrel]

Great information, thanks for sharing. I am working on a 300 blackout build now and this information will come in handy when I get ready to reload.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks for checking out the video! I've spent some time working with the Blackout. If I can be of assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.

[@toddplaner8953]

Thanks! Having issues and I checked my brass thickness. .14 to .19. Think I found my problem. Using Lee die too.

[@edwardseitler3437]

I had some problems using the lee dies at first. I then polished the bell on the decapping pin and the inside of the die itself using a Dremel and some flitz polishing compound, now no more problems. The compound doesn't remove any material from the die, it just polishes to make it as slick as a baby's behind.

[@TreeTopFlier]

I think its a good practice to polish your expander balls so they are smooth. Dragging a rough ball back through the neck of the brass doesn't do it any favors and runs the risk of distorting the neck from the grip it puts on the expander ball. Thanks for watching.

[@m118lr]

THIS..is a GREAT idea. Never thought of OR even heard anyone mention this.

[@moushunter]

The most useful purpose of the small base die is sizing the area near the case head down to remove a bulge from brass fired full auto which often fire on an open chamber. Some well used M16 barrels will go out of spec creating a larger base after normal firing as well. Generally I've found the small base die sizes the top of the brass to normal spec. You can also remove the bulge of a 5.56 case using a Lee Bulge Buster kit with a .380ACP factory crimp die. It sizes the 5.56 bulged cases same as a small base die. A little hint. The Lee primer tool uses a specific shell holder. A #4 shell holder is for 380acp and .223/5.56. If the case does not fit well into the shell holder for the Lee priming tool it usually signifies the case is bulged as the base and needs to be run through a bulge buster or small base die. It is actually more accurate than the case gauges as a guide. After going through the bulge buster or small base die the formerly bulged cases will drop into the #4 shell plate of the Lee Primer Tool easily. If you are forming the 300 blackout cases with any die remove the decap pin and neck sizer to form the cut brass. Bevel the brass inside and out then resize and deprime again later to establish the neck tension for the bullets. It makes forming go easier and takes less effort.

[@TreeTopFlier]

All true. Most don't need the SB die, I've never used one and make all my brass but if you do get into a spot were the brass you're forming was fired in a generous chamber (automatic) and your chamber is on the tighter side the SB dies help. Same goes for 223/5.56. Your trick, running the brass through a 380 carbide ringed crimp die (Lee, I assume) is a really great idea. I do this with 10mm brass so I'm familiar. I would guess this might give a little longer life for primer pockets as well. You can measure the case head expansion progression on supersonic 300Blk to correspond with loose primer pockets. I go back and forth with removing the decaping pin. For me, making 300 black doesnt take much force to form. What I do though, is regardless if I use pin/ball in or out, the last step before powder and seating, I run it through a Lee collet die and that gives much more uniform neck tension and irons out any irregularities in the neck. Cuts group sizes in half. Neck turning is the cherry on top. Great info Mike, thanks for the comment.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hey Mike, I picked up a 380 Auto crimp die. found it really helps with 300 black cases and loose primer pockets. Made a video about it and gave you props. Thanks for the idea.

[@DF-DefendFREEDOM]

A Faxon Match grade barrel is a little tighter in chamber. Some cases won’t fit using any die. The area of some cases that end up as neck after being cut down vary in thickness which were side wall of case. I bought Hornady Neck Turning Tool and turned down the neck. More time and trouble but it works. When SHTF days arrive you may need to be able to do it all. Solved my problems. There are several brands of neck turning tools, Hornady medium price NOT $600-$800 like some, or cheap ones that don’t work as well.

[@northdakotakid8787]

I do all my full length resizing on a heavy cast press. I started reloading on a RCBS Partner press & I found out the aluminum cast frame isn’t robust as it flexes enough to cause problems when I resize larger calibers & reforming making new brass. I even surface ground .003 off one of my shell holders to push the brass up further into the die but found out my press was flexing. I now resize & form on a RCBS Jr heavy cast or on my Redding heavy frame press & all my full length sizing & reforming problems went away. I now use my Partner press for light duty work like decapping & bullet seating.

[@TreeTopFlier]

An interesting observation. I would assume that shell holder to die contact would provide a constant, repeatable dimension since steel doesn't compress very well.

[@JOE-cv8ky]

Had the same issue with my Lee FL die. Ran my Hornady brass thru my Hornady die and it worked. Thanks for the valuable information.

[@CRS73s]

You can resize 223s or 556s using any 300 blackout die. Here's a tip. It takes a few tries, but if you set your cutting die on your saw correctly, you will make perfectly sized cases when you resize them in your die, and there won't be any need to trim them. Only thing you'll need to do is deburr the in and outside edges. Second tip, if you're going to make 300 blackout, buy a case gage. It's a must!..... Happy reloading!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks

[@murphytoadster9864]

My bear creek barrel seems to be picky with my reloads

[@TreeTopFlier]

You can definitely get a snug chamber from time to time. Hope this old video helped a little.

[@TOBORE8THMAN]

I use the RCBS .300 AAC BLACKOUT SB T/C SET P/N: 22407 All my cut down 5.56 brass is reformed to 300 Blackout using this die set alone.

[@TreeTopFlier]

+TOBORE8THMAN I have never heard of anyone having problems chambering using that RCBS set. If someone was just starting out and wanted to be able to form brass with resizing dies this is the set I would recommend. That said, I got lucky and the Lee dies work for me, and I still use them. The Lee dies have one advantage, they are really easy to remove a stuck case as compared to the threaded sizing ball types. There may be an argument for a two step process. Initial forming with a Lee die and if need be, a final with a small base die. In the world of brass reforming it is not uncommon to do it in more than one step. Just a thought for some one who has the Lee set and may need additional sizing the RCBS small base dies offer.

[@TOBORE8THMAN]

TreeTopFlier I prefer RCBS primarily because of their carbide dies. They're more expensive but worth the added cost. With them, I don't need to use lube on my straight wall cases (.357 Mag, 45 Colt, etc). When lube is used on necked cases like 300 AAC, they glide through like butter. I used Lee dies prior to switching to RCBS and never had any issues with them.

[@m118lr]

@@TOBORE8THMAN I REALLY don’t understand WHY more people aren’t TRYING or looking at Dillon dies..carbide also. Dillon’s an industry leader..

[@hphillips7425]

Good video educational👍 my luck was not good with the short base die in 5.56. I had to bottom the die on the ram and back off a full turn. Anything lower was crushing the shoulders.The Lee die I can bottom it and add a turn and it is good

[@netpackrat]

Thing about the RCBS SB die, it is only a small BASE die; and won't necessarily bump the shoulder back further than another given die. Using a 3 step Sheridan case gauge, I found that the RCBS die adjusted all the way down struggles to resize to SAAMI GO dimension, let alone somewhere between GO and minimum brass dimension which is where I try to form to. My Hornady die won't size the base down as narrow, but I can adjust it so the re-formed brass is where I want it via the headspace gauge. My new Dillon size die was delivered this morning and I am looking forward to trying it out.

[@TreeTopFlier]

There is always some variance in head space with different dies and shell holders. You may find a shell holder that gives you a little more push into the die, resulting in just a little more head space. I really do not get to excited about go no go ammo gauges. If it fits and feeds, Im good. Good luck with the Dillon dies, I have never used any

[@netpackrat]

@@TreeTopFlier I am running an XL750 and a Forster Co-Ax, so I can't do much at the shell holder end. Just passing along my observations of what I have seen with MY dies. The Dillon die works OK... Probably not enough better than either of the others to have been worth what I spent on it, but if I had bought their set in the first place like I should have, I wouldn't have needed the other dies. I have a 7mm Weatherby with a tight chamber where I had to polish down the top of a shell holder to get any die to resize far enough. That was years ago; to load for that rifle with my current equipment I would have to modify a die instead.

[@trevornutcher8607]

Just had this issue, thanks for the video!

[@texasbradley]

If you have a Daniel Defence DDM4 PDW don't waste your time on the Lee set, go straight to the RCBS small base die set. I've never had an issue with any of my lee dies until this gun. I was the 450th like!

[@nicholascarver1]

Tree top flier is a great song!

[@TreeTopFlier]

An excellent song and also an anthem for those who fly low to avoid detection.

[@rondonovan4293]

Before forming , anneal brass first

[@TreeTopFlier]

Always good to anneal!

[@chas290620]

hodgon data has mine for weight of 145 grain i was told to bump up to 150 grain have to seat the bullet part ways to 2.2350 18.8 loads but saammi shows 2260 . 11.5 grain seating bullet by harnady data according to the gunsmith

[@TreeTopFlier]

The 2.260" is SAAMI max and really just shows you longest a round can be and still fit in the average magazine. I assume you are looking at the CFEBLK powder. The 2.235" is your charge min depth for that charge wt. Seating deeper can increase pressure, but you can seat the bullet longer... out to 1.260" if it will feed. Those are the tolerances you can exploit to get performance and accuracy.

[@chas290620]

@@TreeTopFlier thank you. Just checking make sure they fit ran some dummybrund to check and they fit and eject now if they will recycle

[@chas290620]

@@TreeTopFlier oh I have 223 casing resize 300 but half of the don't fit the case gave I just discard them even trying Do it agian

[@TreeTopFlier]

Try them in your chamber before you chuck them. If the bolt closes and you can drop the hammer on an empty case, I would say you are good to go. Remember the case gauge is a minimum tolerance to prove the ammo will work in any properly chambered gun. Chambers have tolerances If the case fits your chamber, unless you plan on sharing ammo with other guns and chambers then its good to go. You want to be able to close the bolt without force, drop the hammer, and eject normally. If this works, press on.

[@jreg0028]

would you recommend annealing the brass before forming the 300 aac case. Or is it better to form the case first then anneal it?

[@TreeTopFlier]

+jreg0028 It makes the most sense to anneal prior to forming since it makes the brass more malleable. I don't do it all the time because its labor intensive. When I have done it, it's really just to satisfy curiosity. One thing to keep an eye on. All the cases I have annealed and fired grew after resizing and needed to be trimmed again. Non annealed brass didn't have this problem. Some people say it improves accuracy but I haven't been able to confirm this. Thanks for commenting!

[@jreg0028]

thanks for the reply/info. Thanks for taking the time to film the videos it helps alot.

[@TreeTopFlier]

+jreg0028 Your very welcome, thanks for watching!

[@yolo-qr2fq]

Annealeez seems like a good product for the price and the time it cuts down on annealing.

[@Bobshell-tw8xy]

Thank you for the info. I'm having serious issue with some not all of my 300's I make. I use a Dillon RT1500 to trim and reshape them into 300 BO and then run them thru my Dillon resize die on my 550. Some will shoot great. Some I'm breaking rifle down to pull the bolt out and free up case. I've been doin this for some time now and thought my issue was trim length. So I readjusted every thing and have it spot on. I have run all pieces thru case gauge and they are great. Go outside shop door and shoot some and I'm getting same issue. I'm really thinking I need a small base forming die at this point now. Then resize when I'm loading. Thoughts ???

[@TreeTopFlier]

The small base die is an easy thing to try. If you're buying once fired brass online, its possible to get some that was fired in an oversized machine gun chamber and those can be really blown out. However, since this has been an ongoing thing I'm more inclined to wonder if your chamber is a little undersized. Maybe have someone run a finish reamer in it and double check head space.

[@Bobshell-tw8xy]

@@TreeTopFlier I’ve got 3 …300 BO rifles. It’s the same on all 3

[@TreeTopFlier]

@@Bobshell-tw8xy Oh, definitely a new die then. Aka small base.

[@gshock3092]

Great demonstration!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thank you, this is an old video but still gets some play.

[@vincentapuron2750]

Before cutting them down could you use a Lee 223 small base die to size the base then run it through a LEE 300 BO die after cutting them down?

[@TreeTopFlier]

Sure that would work.

[@TheDkb427]

I just made some from lc brass and my neck is higher than my actual 300 Hornady brass. Is this because my Lee full length die is to high?

[@TreeTopFlier]

Most dies adjust to a basic setting... full contact with the shell holder. This gives you a fixed repeatable dimension. Not sure why it would come out different if you are in full contact with the shell holder?

[@TheDkb427]

@@TreeTopFlier I had a factory case and lower my sizing die and it worked out. Did the same thing with my 223. Bullets didn't have enough neck tension and would spin. Learning as I go but seriously wish I got into reloading way sooner. Fun hobby!!

[@TreeTopFlier]

@@TheDkb427 There is always something new to learn. I have been doing this for a while and I still get some head scratchers LOL

[@mikerussell6212]

Get a Sheridan case Guage

[@TreeTopFlier]

Sheridan case guages are well made and if you have a need for ammo constructed to the minimum saami spec they would be useful.

[@ronstryker]

Thanks for making this video, a friend of mine and I are getting into this new cartridge and since he has some experience in reloading we have decided to form our own brass rather than buy new. I have heard from some people at 300blktalk say they have problems with using the Lee dies to do the initial case forming while others say they swear by the RCBS. I think I found the die I need but I'm not too sure, its the RCBS .300 AAC Blackout Full Length Sizer Die #22429, is this the one that is also called the small base die? I have also read on websites that sell reformed brass from old military casings but they use a Forster die set, what's the difference other than the brand name? Does Forester go down to an even smaller tolerance than RCBS?

[@TreeTopFlier]

+ronstryker I think that is the die from the standard set. You want the die that comes in the 22407 kit and I don't think they sell the full length sizer by itself. www.rcbs.com/Products/Dies-by-Category/AR/Small-Base-Taper-Crimp-Die-Set-AR-Series.aspx It doesn't mean the one you listed wouldn't work for you but chambers can be different and some people have had trouble with that die. I have used the Lee die for years with no problems but that hasn't been every ones experience. Same thing for the forester dies...great dies but not necessarily a good forming die. If you are making brass from military brass some of the chambers the brass was fired in can be cut large to accommodate automatic fire. The brass forms to this chamber and when you try to size it with a standard die most dies dont work the very base of the brass enough to restore them. The RCBS AR series SB dies are designed for this. So in conclusion, if you stack enough tolarances...and end up with a tight chamber, form blown out brass in a moderatly sized die you may run into problems. Hope this makes sense

[@ronstryker]

+TreeTopFlier I think so, let me make sure. If I have a bunch of military brass I would need a small base full length resizing die because the AR chambers have looser tolerances to accommodate rapid fire compared to civilian chambers. The small base die corrects the blown out brass and gets it back to original dimensions. That is what I took from it. So with that said, do you think that is one reason some people have been having issues forming the blackout brass?

[@TreeTopFlier]

+ronstryker Yes that is pretty much it and yes that is mostly why people have problems with their homemade brass in my opinion. To be clear though I wouldn't use the word "always" with any of this. Good luck. Also, I have other blackout videos you may want to watch.

[@ronstryker]

+TreeTopFlier Thanks for the clarification. I see all kinds of videos of people cutting down the brass and trimming them down without any explanation of the dies used to actually form the brass and that has been my dilemma. Here's an idea for your next video, could you show the differences in the brass being formed by a neck sizer, full length sizer like the one I originally mentioned, and the small base sizer like the one you recommended? Show the differences with not only the micrometers but also a case gauge as well, this will help a lot of newbies like myself.

[@TreeTopFlier]

+ronstryker I would love to do that...maybe one day I'll collect all those items. For now I'm just a regular guy on a tight budget.

[@cron93]

When I use my Lee sizing/depriming die, it makes a shoulder much shorter than new brass. How come?

[@TreeTopFlier]

It shouldnt. The die is adjusted to contact the shell holder. Its a hard metal to metal stop so the shoulder should end up in the same place every time minus some spring back for the nature of brass. How much are we talking? There is always some variance. Fire formed sized brass will look different, more defined than converted or new brass. Which one seems right? Are the new brass to spec? Is it reformed brass or new 300 blackout brass? Either your new brass is wrong or the die is cut wrong. In the past it was not uncommon to get commercially formed 223 brass that was out of spec.

[@cron93]

@@TreeTopFlier For me, I'm using 223 brass that I've cut down to the right case length. Then when I do the sizing/forming (whichever die comes in the Lee 300 blackout 3-piece kit), the shoulder is only about 1/16" instead of 1/4". I've adjusted the die both ways it can go but no change.

[@luketimmer6108]

Just use 5.56 brass when the neck wears out and breaks

[@TreeTopFlier]

Some probably do.. primer pocket stretch is the main failure for 300blk so converting old 5.56 brass may not give you many firings...more life if your loading subs. One thing you can do is get spent 5.56 blank cases as surplus and cut them down.

[@mikerussell6212]

RCBS dies work the best for forming your brass

[@TreeTopFlier]

RCBS dies are nice but to say they are the best for sizing is a stretch. Are we talking about small based dies? They are better in some instances, like sizing brass formerly fired in loose chambers such as fully automatic weapons. They size under saami spec. sizing under saami spec is, in most cases, excessive and unhelpful.

[@johns1834]

What do you know about light primer strikes on reloaded ammo?

[@TreeTopFlier]

I have only heard of it in bolt guns, like the Ruger Ranch rifles. It could be caused by excessive headspace, letting the case be too far away from the breech face. This could be a case problem or a chamber problem. But I want to say Ruger had a problem with light strikes...

[@johns1834]

@@TreeTopFlier That is exactly what I have and have heard. Sent the Ranch Rifle back to Ruger and they replaced the bolt, but I still get light strikes on reloads only. I have been told by others to lighten up on the full size die and not reshape the case too much, despite the instructions for the Lee Loader Die Set. Thanks.

[@TreeTopFlier]

@@johns1834 I didnt know Lee made a "loader" set for 300blk, that would not be a tool I would use for your circumstance. I would definitely look at controlling shoulder set back. You will need to use a comparitor on your fired brass to figure this out. You could also look at using a primer with a thinner primer cup like the CCI 400.

[@johns1834]

@@TreeTopFlier Will do. Thanks. All of my reloads shoot great in my AR. Nothing wasted.

[@CHAOSMOVEMENT]

@@johns1834 Did you ever figure out what the problem was?

[@mattdavis822]

Subscribed good stuff

[@gregspangler5155]

like

[@deadhorse3389]

Mark up the brass with smoke

[@yolo-qr2fq]

Rcbs small base resizing die

[@TreeTopFlier]

There are a small percentage of people who need to go that route to get the extra sizing. The small base dies are a sure thing for forming. Some guys form their brass with small base dies and then use the Lee or others for RE loading.

[@yolo-qr2fq]

TreeTopFlier yeah but I would use the lee then the small base just in case your buddy needs some.

[@ranchodeluxe1]

Taking a usefull cartridge and making it worthless? Sounds like a great use of time to me.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Well put you down as a hard no then...

[@Garrick1983]

If I’m using it, then it’s useful.

[@ranchodeluxe1]

@@Garrick1983 For what? It was made for 50 yard head shots. You hunting terrorists?