Proclus and Astrology in Platonism

Discussing the life and work of the 5th century philosopher Proclus, and how he integrated astrology and theurgy with Platonism, with Dr. José Manuel Redondo and Chris Brennan.
José is an astrologer from Mexico City who wrote a PhD dissertation on Proclus in 2015. We met at an astrology conference in 2010, and have been talking about doing an episode on Proclus for years now.
After last month's episode on the Lots where I touched on Plato, the Myth of Er, and the concept of the guardian daimon, I thought it would be a great time to expand on some of those points by talking to José about Proclus and expanding the discussion of Platonism to include the Timaeus and other Platonic metaphysics.
During the course of the episode we talk about Proclus and how he used astrology together with theurgy as a tool for working with the gods and invoking them in his daily life, and we ended up touching on a bunch of other topics in the process, including:
🪐 Plato's creation myth called the Timaeus, and how it posits that the universe is a living creature and god that possesses a soul and intelligence, and how some later astrologers may have been influenced by this and shared a similar conceptualization of the cosmos.
🪐 How Plato's conceptualization of reincarnation in the Timaeus and the Myth of Er influenced later astrologers and philosophers such as Proclus.
The Platonic idea of fate being a law that is conditional, and allows for choice.
🪐 The role of the daimon in Proclus and other Platonists, and the question of whether it is an internal or external entity that guides the native to fulfill their destiny.
🪐 Proclus' birth chart that is preserved in the biography his student Marinus wrote for him, as well as how his student says that eclipses occurred around the time of Proclus' death.
🪐 How the integration of Platonic metaphysics with astrology is part of what led to its downfall once the Roman Empire became Christian, and how some of the Platonic notions about daimons or the cosmos being alive caused conflict with Christian theology.
And many other topics.
You can find out more about José on his website and Facebook page:
capulus.com.mx
/ capulus7
This is episode 435 of The Astrology Podcast:
theastrologypodcast.com/2024/...
Please be sure to like and subscribe!
#TheAstrologyPodcast
Timestamps
00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:49 José Manuel Redondo's background
00:05:40 Proclus
00:15:00 Proclus and astrology
00:20:23 Theurgy
00:30:15 Platonism
00:36:31 Philosophy, astrology, and magic integrated in Proclus
00:42:30 Neoplatonism and the Chaldean Oracles
00:55:35 Birth chart of Proclus
01:21:00 Plato’s Timaeus
01:41:00 The Myth of Er and fate as law
01:56:10 Proclus' belief in reincarnation
02:02:10 Christianity, paganism, and astrology
02:09:28 Daimons
02:32:02 Plato and astrology
02:54:10 Middle Platonism and Neoplatonism
03:01:18 Proclus and astrology
03:15:22 Was Proclus an astrologer?
03:25:25 Jose’s work
03:29:08 Credits

[@ruygranja]

The Astrology Podcast is public service! Chris Brennan, you deserve all the recognition from the astrological world. What you are giving us will echoes for decades or even more. Thank you very much for one more impressive episode.

[@olga667]

I'm extremely happy for this episode as a former philosophy student who also read a lot about late antiquity & medieval philosophy

[@shadesofbrooklynn5]

ThankYou for making this possible Chris! ThankYou to Mr. Redondo for sharing This Information. Was a pleasure listening ⭐️

[@PavaniGanga]

💛🙏💛A luminous example of integral spirituality-- Logos-Mythos-Theurgy. Thank you! May it reverberate culturally and consequentially among the hearers.

[@destinosentransito]

I was surprised and very happy to see a dear teacher and friend here. For anyone who might be interested, there is a great film by Carl Theodor Dreyer, "Ordet", which perfectly exemplifies the "divine madness" that Dr. Redondo talks about, albeit from a christian perspective. This author is super interesting and fundamental, how nice to see that there is a growing interest in classical philosophy in the astrology student community. Thank you Chris for this vast contribution. Best regards from Argentina.

[@mercuryascending1900]

I've had Ordet in my film queue for awhile and I'll take your comment as a sign its time to watch. 😊(Also vibes with this Aquarian New Moon occurring in my 9th house). ☮💜

[@destinosentransito]

​@@mercuryascending1900 Dreyer is a great artist! I think Ordet is a Masterpiece and hope you enjoy it.

[@albacarod2230]

Excellent discussion. Platonic Theurgy is something powerful to be re-explored.

[@user-ul9is6nn1v]

Could you please define theurgy?

[@albacarod2230]

Theurgy, or divine action, allowed people to join in a deity's activities through rituals, cleansing the soul, providing a connection with the daimon or guardian angel, blessings and protection. Today, I believe we can practice theurgy through active imagination invoking archetypes in an expanded state of mind. @@user-ul9is6nn1v

[@MonAmour48]

Love “Real “ History ☺️Thankyou for your information guys ! ☀️✨

[@tomn4029]

fascinating discussion. as an astrologer who studied philosophy this episode brought a lot of insights and inspiring perspectives on history, helping me to connect the dots in a broad way. it is one of my favorite episodes, toghether with the episode on hermeticism. thank you so much for the deep dive.

[@not_here3375]

This is a 10 star/super like discussion -Thanks to Chris ,spectacular Mind -just blown away at the level of accuracy and focus on detail ,-academia environment for everyday skeptics at our fingertips .

[@user-fv1jn1gw5w]

Excellent subject

[@carolecleararcroseoraclela8868]

Thankyou so much - So love the Astrology/Philosophy dialogues - I have finally joined and am a patron

[@ASTROFREQUENCiES]

Hi, Chris, Wow, another brilliant discussion! The discussion on Lots was excellent and now, another awesome presentation! You and Dr. José Manuel Redondo brought so much depth to the topic, very thought provoking. The part about how we so concern ourselves with tending to the needs of our bodies that tending to the needs of our souls may go lacking. However, studying and understanding philosophy are ways to care for our souls too; I would include astrology as well. Another enlightening podcast, thank you!

[@trish4977]

Thank you Chris and thank you Dr Jose'..This was amazing I loved it, I've learnt so much from this today..i didn't want it to end.

[@roxannasastrotarology425]

Excellent talk. Thank you Dr. Redondo and Chris Brennan. So important to continue making music, art, poetry, etc... keep the passageways open so the soul can remember herself in this ever physically-biased world. 🕊

[@plantcunning]

Excited to give this a full listen when I have time! Love me some Neoplatonic Astrology.

[@ileanamendez7583]

Excellent. Thank you 💫

[@daneckabargas6690]

Another fantastic episode

[@Silvertestrun]

Thank you!

[@maria_mercedes]

Excellent episode!

[@cosmopsique4969]

Thank you so much!

[@Prudenthermit]

Thank you

[@simonedarionardella3957]

I'm 36 minutes in and I'm loving this episode. I think it would be great to have an episode on correspondences, too.

[@WindyTheEnchanted]

Weeee love this sm!!!

[@giocenn]

Chris, thank you for this episode. I would love to see a discussion like this between you and John Verveake.

[@TraditionalAstrologyPodcast]

fuck yes, so stoked for this!

[@lewiskirk8289]

Here is a playlist of all of Plato’s dialogues for anyone who might be interested. There is nothing like reading the source text: kzbin.info/aero/PL65ijVzWl9kvQmBMv7nFo5FkqMSWN-q16&si=VVqtxxEkBfZy5LFM

[@timcleary837]

Thanks @lewiskirk! 😉

[@JojoJacquesTarot]

❤❤❤❤❤

[@jonyspinoza3310]

🌞

[@nazinik8264]

سلام بسیار ممنون از شما اگر امکان هست زیر نویس فارسی و تو برنامه تون انجام بدین ممنون میشم

[@reginawei5509]

When will your book Hellenistic Astrology The Study of Fate and Fortune be translated into German?

[@user-ul9is6nn1v]

Use a translation app or smth

[@francheskahenderson]

I think his birth chart works if you use the true size of the constellations, which they did originally go by the true sky even if they didn’t draw the signs in the chart to scale. I think for convenience sake they just drew the constellations in charts all the same size and somewhere in time something was lost and people thought it meant the signs were all the same size. I don’t think their is anything wrong with using modern astrology that’s all symbolic now and not based an true astronomy , like it was at first , but it definitely isn’t lined up with the stars now.

[@WindyTheEnchanted]

Weeee love this sm!!!