Procreate AI Statement - AND - Artists Big Win in Court

[@lisa-ramos-x7n]

"Creativity is made, not generated." I hope Procreate will be available in the Windows store. There are so many advantages to it, especially the lettering part. 😃

[@foxboy3000]

Android as well

[@darksidegryphon5393]

And Linux.

[@hickyxnicky411]

Yes Android

[@myqaveli]

@@foxboy3000same I been wanting to leave Apple and Procreate on surface devices as well Foldables with pen support like Samsungs would be nice

[@agkhwbbw9830]

Well… It’s not gonna happen. They said Procreate would not make it to Android at least. Their excuse being that they didn’t want their app to be used in devices of “lesser quality”

[@Crick2x9]

"We have too many corporations and not enough businesses nowadays" oooofff I want this quote framed up on my wall.

[@jjrob114]

Capitalism vs late-stage capitalism. 🤷

[@TheGraphicVault_Design]

Same

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@jjrob114 Capitalism v. Oligarchy/Corporatocracy.

[@jambott5520]

​@@JSSMVCJR2.1 These are not different things. Oligarchy and corporotocry are the result of capitalism left to run on its own without any regulation. When given the choice, the capitalist class will always choose more money, leading to the situation we are in now. You have to take away the choice, or take away the class, and frankly uprooting the entire system of capitalism is not an easy task, especially when compared to getting regulation which we have already implemented in the past, that was just removed at a later point.

[@AHTOtv]

...so, do it

[@HajimeKomaeda]

The difference between the English and Japanese Procreate videos where the CEO says "Personally, I don't like AI" in the Japanese one while the main English one is "I really (bleep) hate generative AI" is really funny.

[@Musashi-if3tl]

Japanese politeness above all things 😂😂😂

[@Amaling]

Wow, that is arguably even harsher with the Japanese translation relative to Japanese corporate talk

[@CoraMaria]

Don't forget, the English-speaking guy is an Aussie, so swearing is way more normal

[@LoveEachDay94]

Culturally, for Japanese business talk, this is nearly the same vibes

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@Musashi-if3tl Guess you are an Aussie too, m8, just like the founder himself.

[@Grim_Sister]

U: Procreate made a statement about AI Me: Oh no U: it was F AI Me: oh, thank GOD

[@spec24]

I guess it's true what they say. Artists really don't have much going for them in the intellectual department.

[@runawaywolf2570]

@@spec24 One could say the exact same about the tech bros glorifying a system telling pregnant women to smoke cigarettes and putting glue on pizza, but sure, the artists are the problem for looking out for their livelihood. Clown.

[@PicaresquePhotography]

I was a big Procreate supporter before. Even bigger now. We need more tech companies who are in for the users, not some shareholders.

[@almond4887]

ill support them once they stop licking apple boots, why do less fortunate people not deserve to draw on a good program? im so done with krita or ibis paint or name other free program thats dog water.

[@tino768]

Yeah tech's all fine and dandy until it comes for your jobs, remember finding out about the internet and rushing to post your stuff? Now you're wary about the NEXT big tech thing. A fact I find predictable, yet bizarre...

[@tino768]

@@almond4887 It's called a pencil and a piece of paper...no ties to big tech required...

[@Muthukaviyarasan]

@@almond4887krita is pretty good program 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@Amaling]

​@almond4887 Krita is a perfectly good program tho? Or are you only talking about Krita on Android, that I can understand

[@PopTartNeko]

"These AI companies, specifically Deviantart" My heart just broke at this line

[@MaryamMohammed-z7p]

I feel you 😢

[@ashenfox238]

Living long enough to become a villain

[@QUEERVEEART]

cries

[@zestygambler]

I logged back onto my old Deviantart account after 10+ years of inactivity and saw how much the site has changed… I am disappointed of what it has become.

[@foxesofautumn]

"Deviant" used to mean something a little edgy, now it just means bland and corporate.

[@AdamDuffArt]

Hmm, I didn’t realize how good it would feel to hear a big players like procreate to state that out loud, particularly in such a warm and compassionate tone - there was a lot of humanity glued to this video. Big respect to Procreate developers

[@CreateNowSleepLater]

HUGE respect. Generative AI is corporate greed, nothing more. Any talk of it being a "tool" is just more gaslighting bullshit. Dell, GM all laying off people with AI jobs. Its awful.

[@2Btoobee]

go away

[@niko1even]

​@@2BtoobeeL take

[@niko1even]

Whoa it's Adam! I love your art man and I really appreciate your passion for fighting against this wave of fake, lifeless art.

[@DieterPrivate]

You do get this statement and video is produced right? It's to protect themselves. If they actually agree doesn't matter that much, but would be awesome if true.

[@fix0the0spade]

Remember when Deviantart was a fun online community where people posted their works, groups formed organically and there was a strict no porn rule? Sad to think that's almost 20 yeas ago now.

[@sweetsisfat]

The good days

[@amaririii_ch]

It's also bought by wix.

[@keithtarrier4558]

@@sweetsisfat Indeed... RIP...

[@Zero]

what is on that site now? sorry haven't visited it in years.

[@Mangaka_Mk]

@@Zerothey steal peoples art posted on their website for ai, and lots and lots of sonic inflation and other 🌽

[@_JoyceArt]

The fact that Procreate is one of the few bastions without a subscription model, is one reason why I love them. This statement against AI, further cements my impression that they’re in it for the creators, not to become millionaires. I’m okay of course if they get rich, but it doesn’t seem to be their main goal.

[@astra8372]

I'm fine with it even being their main goal as long as there are lines they don't cross or they want to become rich by being helpful, not scamming

[@foxygrin]

I don't want them to become rich, it always goes downhill from there

[@kornkernel2232]

Yeah, the issue isn't about becoming rich, at least most of us wants that and it's not by itself per say, but it's about principle and making yourself rich in the right way. But yeah anyways, as long as they stand by their statement, hopefully the company exist and keeps making money so their products will keep exist and become strong alternative from other giants who now pretty much abusing the industry but can get away of it because they are practically too big to fail. For our benefit especially in the industry, it is actually our interest for them to be rich enough to keep going and hopefully their decisions won't end up getting bankrupt or absorbed by another big conglomerate or venture capitalist that only chase profits and don't care the product and the mission of the company. Each company has their own mission they follow other than making money.

[@Just_a_commenter]

The more companies refusing to adopt generative AI, the better. I personally don't use Procreate since I run a Windows/Android environment, but for my fellow artists in the IOS ecosystem, I hope you'll support Procreate over Adobe and other companies gleefully using generative AI.

[@ithurtsbecauseitstrue]

i use desktop widows. but i have an ipad pro - that i rarely use for art. But i might pick up dreams just to give them a nod

[@TheLuconic]

Don’t worry. I heard that Procreate will soon be on android. Or was it pc… idk. But there are procreate clones on android. Look into brads videos to find the program in question.

[@Dreamforge.Atelier]

Afer this statement, I even purchased Procreate Pocket (the app for the iPhone) just to support them a little bit more. I am not planning on useing this app tho 😂 But we'll see hehe

[@deabreu.tattoo]

On my iPad I have Procreate and Affinity. I'm kindda miffed in Affinity, since they're rented by Canva now, but for the time being, they're cool.

[@azraelproxymo7089]

The problem are not the apps but instagram , facebook and all the website were artist post their work . There is no way to stop it .

[@AuroraPaintBrush4444]

On KZbin, I block Photoshop Ads. Especially when the first 2 seconds mention AI Send the message. Block art programs that are PROUD of AI

[@kristinesynowka106]

I've been doing the exact same thing! I can't stand them. Adobe has forever lost me as a customer, and it's getting easier and easier to find software alternatives.

[@PaintSplashProductions]

How can you block certain ads? I’d like to block Adobe ads too

[@AuroraPaintBrush4444]

@@PaintSplashProductions While the Ad is playing, pause. Go to the three dots, that kinda look like this (...) Click it. It will give you options to block. Easiest is a plain block, sometimes you can go through the whole menu for "violence" or racism or other reasons

[@kristinesynowka106]

@@PaintSplashProductions There will always be a static ad accompanying the video ad. Find the three vertical dots on the right side of that ad, tap or click, you'll go into the ad's settings and enjoy the ability to block ad. One thing to note, Adobe has a bunch of different variants of their ads and they keep coming out with new ones. You'll be blocking a lot of ads, but if a lot of people happen to constantly block Adobe ads, then that will surely show up in their data. And I'd not, it still satisfies me to block every one of their shady AI ads.

[@GentaroYumeno]

@@PaintSplashProductions Just use Ublock to block every ad

[@chromaticvisuelle]

Procreate on Android would be nice too! Cherry on the cake!

[@sloppynyuszi]

Doubt it will happen. Lumafusion did it. They now get a lot less press at Apple launches and now they have to deal with a fragmented store fronts, and people ignore how much more piracy is a thing on Android. For Android fans you have Infonite painter and from my understanding they have the same stance on AI. I love procreate in general, and happy to have bought all 3 of their products. Although Dreams is kinda shit still (Callipeg, is the better animation app), but considering how good procreate have been with their upgrades, 30 AUD is well worth it for it, and the animation app is an interesting bonus. Of it’s your foray to animation you’ll have an easier time than coming from TVpaint, Toon Boom or something.

[@meteuteu]

It's hard to imagine when the reason people buying iPad mostly because of Procreate... Apple wont let Procreate dev release it for Android 😂

[@josevanz7654]

I'm waiting for it! I love Clip Studio, but there are so many tutorials for procreate, I'm miss that!

[@akbarrmd7714]

me too, i saw many used Procreate, but i only use Android since lets face it, less exclusive.

[@nopewmv3377]

I love CSP but that subscription model....oof...HiPaint for me

[@NikolaNevenov86]

yup...I've been telling this ever since the generative AI art exploded last year. The AI does not learn, it stores highly "compressed" chunks of the original image with a specific set of tags. And the compression is basically a procedure in the form of a matrix of how to get from A to B. Basically from the random noise to the original image. So basically when we give it prompts it starts tagging areas of the random noise it generates, where it thinks the tags are and starts transforming that area based on the matrix. Basically the computer thinks this area is the tag we are looking for and is trying to "restore" the original training data.

[@MoolsDogTwoOfficial]

But with humans, we do learn new things. And we take those "tags" from our brains and shape them into our own original ideas and interpretations.

[@kenzorman]

@@MoolsDogTwoOfficialsigh. it’s not the same … for so many obvious reasons..

[@Dom-zy1qy]

That's like %30 accurate , %40 incorrect and %30 inaccurate.

[@Dom-zy1qy]

​@@kenzormanhow are they dissimilar tho? They're not the same, I agree with that.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

​@kenzorman Legally (USA Copyright Law), it is Copyright Infringement to use unauthorized works for a Data Base 100% unless such works are wavered under Contract Law. Read your TOSs/EULAs closely. That said... It is also legal for anyone to download unauthorized works from the internet (as it is a basic function of all tech) but do not reproduce those works. Do so under Fair Use instead of infringing. Now, here is the muddy part. Knowing that my 1st statement is with regard to companies who own AI Art Softwares and my 2nd statement is with regards to personal use & references... If you do use AI Art Software, then USA Copyright Law sees it differently based on the output and not on the input. Because you don't own that Software. Even if you do own the IP, Patent, and Trademark of the AI Art Software. You are also not liable for copyright Infringement unless you sell the Software as a Service instead of selling pictures. There's a difference in selling the Software which contains infringing works in its Data Base, and just selling auto generated Art. Regardless if it's done by an individual or corporation. (At least, that should have been the case until companies, even Google, have begun to "alter the contract" and break copyright laws.) These are the legal examples. So don't claim all AI Art is copyright Infringement. Yes, the USA Copyright Office also stated that pure 100% AI Art is Public Domain. However, it's still case by case without proper legislation or judicial ruling. Other nations may very heavily.

[@The00kelly00]

Honestly, these two stories have given me actual hope for my future. I've been in animation for nearly 20 years and was looking into a trade or some normie job, but every time I looked it just made me depressed. Since midjourney and stable bs has come out I haven't had any desire to draw outside of work, do any personal work or post anything online. I've turned down freelance/commissions when clients don't agree to not using my work for future training. I felt like I've been victim blamed for all of this because I post shit on social media, but I don't think anyone who posts anything expected theft on this scale, artist or not. I'm sick of non artists telling me artists aren't losing their jobs (tell that to all my friends who've struggled to find work) , I'm sick of them comparing AI to the advent of photography, printing press and all other false comparisons, I'm sick of arguing with people who know nothing about my industry trying to tell me how they think my industry works. If your not an animator or in the entertainment industry, kindly piss off. The stress and depression has been a constant tourniquet since 2019 and this news feels like the grip is loosening and my blood can flow again.

[@defaulted9485]

As Sun Tzu said, "Appear weak when strong. Appear strong when weak." We're had enough of them pretending to be the future. For a fellow who also grew in hard times, may your word has heavier value. I vouch for you and may your work prosper.

[@someuser4166]

I really relate to the first thing you said "looking for normie jobs is depressing" I'm also an animator and concept artist but Ive got a degree in programming. (though I don't care about it, I just got that because I didn't dare persuit art when I was younger) So when I'm browsing tech jobs and they write stuff like "a passion for tech! Knowledge of dot net framework etc" I just think to myself "Jesus fu Christ! Who gives a s about this meaningless cr?! I didn't work my as off trying to learn art just to do this meaningless sh" Same when I look for courses in different professions I just think to myself "this ain't sh compared to art" (both in difficulty and meaning) I really don't want to waste my life doing that...

[@The00kelly00]

@@defaulted9485 Thanks for the kind words.

[@matheussanthiago9685]

Amen brother The sooner Gen AI (I refuse to call it "art" ) joins the garbage bin of history, along with NFT, shitcoins and the metaverse The sooner we'll wake in a grateful universe

[@vitriolicAmaranth]

I've seen only a few people claiming it's like the advent of photography, and I've seen them on both sides of the discussion even then. I agree that it's ridiculous, though. If the main use of photography had been going into museums and taking pictures of the art to sell, taking pictures of store logos to use as your own and taking pictures of existing photographs to reproduce (complete with incrementally degrading the quality in all cases), it would actually be an apt comparison, but that is not what photography is or was.

[@withercat1801]

People who use generative AI calling themselves artists for thinking of prompts is so funny to me. Like imagine if you were talking to someone and they said they were a painter, and you asked them what they had painted and they said “Oh, I haven’t painted anything! I just thought of some ideas and then commissioned someone else for them. That makes me a painter :D”

[@Suko120]

It's not even that, it's like googling images online, re-uploading them and claiming ownership.

[@frilansspion]

Im so glad to find others who feel the same. Those people drive me nuts...and Im shocked there are so many of them! And now I cant even assume that something I like is an actual painting! So it even ruins real stuff!

[@infinitivez]

"We took 100,000 gigabytes of image-" ... stop them right there, don't pass go. Straight to jail.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Is that what you want from the lawsuit? Abolish AI altogether?

[@shinomiya89]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 don't twist their words. it is not what they said and not what they are talking about. plus the video is talking about generative Ai. Not AI alltogether.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

​@@shinomiya89 And what's the context, then?

[@infinitivez]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 The context is simple, as was my statement. They TOOK images from others, without permission, to train their models. They should be prosecuted. Plenty of AI projects now using self hosted data. Prosecuting blatant theft that is capitalizing off the backs of others with zero remorse, isn't going to kill AI.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@infinitivez " Prosecuting blatant theft that is capitalizing off the backs of others with zero remorse, isn't going to kill AI." It will kill Generative models, that's for sure.

[@bakawaki]

Great to FINALLY hear more bigger names taking a strong stance against generative "AI", unlike some other big names.

[@quazarstars637]

Procreate has always been a better art program than Photoshop in my opinion and this really explains why, they understand what their audience want and deliver it, not gimmicks, no bells and whistles, no unfair pricing

[@CaffeinatedHiFi]

I'm just so glad the general public perception of generative AI art has finally soured almost entirely. I remember trying to tell people that AI art was theft and most people legitimately got angry because for them, they were finally getting these very elaborate images that they could never afford to commission. That has almost entirely evaporated and even people who are not artist actively despise AI art. I was extremely worried things would not turn out this way. This is so freaking awesome to see.

[@digitalbrinjen3245]

Absolutely. I'm watching the general public grow to hate gen AI more and more.... and it's a beautiful sight.

[@frilansspion]

I dont see that reaction happening in a large way myself, I see it used more and more, but I hope youre right.

[@comforth3898]

You do realize that this channel is an echo chamber right? People around the world are increasingly adopting regenerative AI. The simple fact that OpenAI is worth 150 billion, Microsoft - more than 3 trillion and Nvidia is closing in on 3 trillion is clear indication that AI is not going away anytime soon.

[@CaffeinatedHiFi]

@@comforth3898 Billion dollar corporations trying to capitalize on plagiarism is not the same as broad public opinion. Most average people have a negative opinion of generative AI

[@landonp629]

So we are striving for a world were only the rich or talented can get art for their stuff. Got it.

[@piratelego1]

James said yesterday they are working on a desktop version. I hope it comes to Windows someday

[@P4MI]

That would be great, where did he say it?

[@3polygons]

Great news ( I didn't know). I'd purchase it the second it comes out. Even while I already have a lot of other painting apps. :)

[@trowawayacc]

If so i will buy this.

[@ravizzle]

I hope so! omg!

[@Phot0n0]

I'd be willing to bet a mac version would come way before windows was even considered but who knows

[@foxygrin]

The amount of AI bros trying to deflect each and every hopeful/happy comment is astounding, it's like they were trained to kill passion on sight

[@hosatus2433]

Best part about videos like this is looking at all the AI Bros. They're like zoo animals.

[@heavenseek]

Envy is a powerful impulse.

[@tsukuneboy]

I followed an AI bro on Patreon that gives you H images in hundreds every day for 3-5 USD. The funny thing is he stopped midway because the amount of stress working as "an AI artist ". These guys are usually not an artist themselves and I found this to be stupidly funny because they envy real life artist, got a tool that helps them to get the same arts, but just realized that being an artist is hard and the grind is freaking diabolical, so they gave up even generating the stuff as a career.

[@gozu9455]

thank you procreate for not including ai shananigans

[@vinny-zebu]

I'm pretty convinced that people who come here calling artists "luddites", "ai is the future", "adapt or die" have some hidden hatred for the artist class for some reason, either out of malice or ignorance, because I can't think of another reason you would want people to lose their jobs or ruin their personal passion.

[@midnightfuture]

I can give you another thesis. In the past 25 years we've seen the rise of the web and the advent of mobile. Those two seismic events have entirely reshaped our world, and the fact that they were almost simultaneous has led a lot of people to think that this is an age/era of "disruption"-a term they understand poorly. So many would-be tech commentators and self-styled prophets are preoccupied with predicting the Next Big Thing, so they've told us it was Bitcoin and crypto, it was NFT, it was the Metaverse, and now they think it's "AI" (which, for them, just means large language models and latent diffusion). That it. They don't truly care about anything, they don't know about anything, they don't have any meaningful theories of how this would reshape opportunities and what a coherent future looks like. They just want to be seen to be right about a coming disruption, so they can position themselves as "thought leaders" and… I dunno, sell courses? charge for talks? It's inchoate grift, really.

[@huymaivan8671]

It's just their way of crying salty tear, they has been reply to AI for too long and forgot how to be human properly.

[@defaulted9485]

Instant gratification culture. The antithesis of that is seeing artists living in the moment, live modestly, and valuing every second of their crafts and labor. People always hate the opposite of their values.

[@samvieten_official]

Some people are just envious. And now they think they can do "the same work" or "better" without any skill. It's the same as copying an apps code and slightly modifying and re-releasing it. Calling it their own.

[@Dreamforge.Atelier]

I am SOOO happy that we see more and more artists gather together to protect what is so very precious.

[@abigailg.2595]

And this is why we LOVE procreate

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Cult!

[@abigailg.2595]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 because I like software for artists that doesn’t endorse stealing from artists?? How is that a cult? 😂

[@just_eirik]

Procreate and Affinity and Cara are my favorite companies/apps right now because of their distance from AI, if that makes sense.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Fervently investing in their war bonds, eh?

[@disenovectorialymas2558]

Affinity is already sold to Canva and in the future I think that they will go that direction 😢

[@fablewalls]

@@disenovectorialymas2558 Agree on Affinity under Canva. Right now they are saying the right things but subscription and AI are both big money spinners and the temptation will be too much. Right now though, Affinity is a one time purchase and no AI so you can buy an App that works like it should.

[@just_eirik]

@@disenovectorialymas2558 What really? Goddamit. I haven’t even heard of Canva before.

[@just_eirik]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 I don’t know what that is.

[@ReinMixTape]

Great news. If a individual used any copyrighted file here or elsewhere, they'd get DMCA'd or copyright struck. But those tech bros have been slurping hundreds of billions of images they have no right use, let alone commercially use, and making bank of it.

[@user-oy8vu3xb2y]

They are sitting on a mountain of legal landmines

[@Shiralkian]

I still remember when I used 3 seconds of a song for an intro on a private video here on KZbin and it got claimed and monetized. But a visual artist's whole portfolio is fed to a machine for replicating and that's okay. We're ludites if we complain, and unreasonable if we expect compensation for our contribution.

[@PaulKaseta]

It's nice to know there are companies out there like procreate not feeding its users art to AI models. Unfortunately we can't say that about many others, but at least there are some out there. Thank you again brad for bringing this to our attention, as I for one haven't seen or heard anything about this until watching this video.

[@gabbodj95]

Can’t wait for this AI madness to deflate and make companies lose millions of dollars ❤

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Resentment that much?

[@gabbodj95]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 that’s the only thing I wish for companies that use the rateo 100 money/0 care and quality :)

[@lancehackman6304]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 What is there to not resent? Most of these companies are using people's hard work without permission. They deserve all the punishment they'd get.

[@frilansspion]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 human culture is actually in the balance here. I think its right to be upset

[@ConstantGardener-q9q]

AMEN to Procreate!! BTW, AI can’t be copyrighted. That means that a) the publishers need to be sure artists can actually grant limited copyright for their illustration (i.e, they are not AI generated); and b) if people create AI illustrations anyone can appropriate and sell them for a profit

[@CodexPermutatio]

It depends. A purely AI-generated image has little human work involved so it can't be copyrighted as an AI can't be considered an "author". But, if the artist using AI does not stop there, and uses that image as a start point for creating an illustration, then the situation is very different as it would involve a significant amount of human work and, hence, that can be copyrighted. The conclusion is: Artist's work is safe because every company that uses AI will need to copyright its assets and designs so, even if they are using AI to be more efficient, they will need some human artist in the loop to ensure their stuff is original enough to be copyrighted. I don't see this important point discussed around on internet. Everybody is just so blind ranting against AI... It's not "their vs us". This is just a new technology that will enter the pipeline of any digital artist very soon. Everything locally generating, of course, because who wanna risk their prompts being stored somewhere online when they can have their generative AI in their own computers at work?

[@i-Consume-Only-Useful-Content]

Nope, products needs to be different not same to same they let you list stuff under reused policy

[@sexywarriorwomen]

@@i-Consume-Only-Useful-Contentno. The US gov flat out stated that nothing generated by AI could be copywritten.

[@sexywarriorwomen]

@@CodexPermutatiowhile this is true the problem is them stealing data and artwork and creating derivative works with it without permission which is a clear copywrite violation. That still exists no matter who worked on it after the fact.

[@frilansspion]

@@CodexPermutatio "their prompts" haha...ha...what a depressing c*nt of a world its become

[@sharsnow]

Is there anything we can ACTUALLY do about this AI sh*t??? It's frustrating me because one person said to me that my job will be replaced by AI in future and demanded me (nicely) to change my job to a more secure one. That is so disrespectful. HELP

[@happysocialmoth1197]

Smh- these bozos should know that they are ALSO in danger of being replaced too!!😭 like- if somehow, Artist is replaced by AI, what makes them think that those out-of-touch greedy corps won't do the same to OTHER jobs in order to save more money???

[@sharsnow]

@@happysocialmoth1197 yeap....

[@sexywarriorwomen]

Sue them if they are stealing your data/ work for creating a derivative work which is a copyright infringement if it is done without the artists permission. You can do a personal law suit or a class action law suit with a bunch of other artists.

[@sharsnow]

@@sexywarriorwomen but what if the artist don't have the money to hire a lawyer... Sadge

[@ErvBot31]

Welcome to the real world, adapt or die. You can ofc always get into politics, but ultimately we're like horse breeders trying to stop cars becoming a thing. There's no way around it

[@Chromolume]

I can't like this enough! AI is sucking the art out of art programs like a leech. The "democratization" of software (I.e. requiring no skill) has resulted in dumbed down graphic art, fine art, literature, music, filmmaking and on and on. The lack of rudimentary training galls me on a daily basis. Glad to see that ProCreate (which I have and love, by the way) standing up for what's right.

[@cstrike1455]

Just say you're butthurt the average 'pleb' can now make art as good as the average artist with a 1/10000 of the time invested.

[@Chromolume]

@@cstrike1455 No, precisely the opposite. The average plebeian can NOT make art as good, only faster. They spit dreck into the marketplace and it's just terrible and ubiquitous.

[@vid9170]

​@@cstrike1455 It only looks "good." Believe it or not, rendering is one of the easiest things to do in art. You just don't know and it shows.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

@@vid9170 Not to mention that an algo can't communicate with it's "images". It can't express any emotion.

[@9-NoName-3]

​​@@JSSMVCJR2.1there is actually more to it than just "generating" the first random image and pick it up as it is. Work needs to be done in order to make it good and that's something you snobs fail to understand. The soul of art comes by the amount of work you put in the details.

[@Secret_Pickle]

Now they just need to get rid of the hidden layers in timelapses so people can't trace AI and make it look like they drew it.

[@Farhan.imator]

Respect for procreate and it's ceo 📈📈📈

[@dplj4428]

Not your concern? 😂😂😂 For any gamers, coders, musicians, lyricists, architects, politician, or comedians: Do not dismiss these visual artists as just being afraid of losing their jobs: your finesse and originality is being scraped, too. Remember the mind hive Borg? Remember Lieutenant Data finding his soul? Remember Jude Law as the love boat in the movie "Alternative Individual"? Sci-fiction is predictive of sci-fact?

[@kni9ght]

Well to be the creator of Star Trek had sci-fi insights far ahead of his time, like iPads and virtual reality being a thing, also I wrote my first book last year and I feel like it’s going to be scraped too, it’s crazy out here

[@hakonsoreide]

Yes, it is image compression. The apologists will say: there is no storage of an exact pixel from the original image, and the defendants will certainly try using that in their defence too, but storing something as a mathematical formula that generates a copyrighted image, in other word not even storing a single pixel, is still storing the original. And even if the court agrees it's not a copy of the original, there is no way it's not a derivative, which is an equally exclusive right.

[@landonp629]

"derivative, which is an equally exclusive right." That is not really the case; derivative works are subject to the same fair use standards as the originals. In fact, any work that stems from another work is derivative by simple definition, any fair use of an original work would be derivative of that original work.

[@WizArt85]

This is why I have stuck with the company and will forever stick with this company. It is my number one program for art and my commissions because they have always listened to their users opinion.

[@40Kfrog]

There is no such thing as AI art. It's AI-enabled Art Theft. Maybe in the future someone might train a model exclusively on art they have the rights to, but that's not the case now so we all need to collectively stop calling it art.

[@3polygons]

Great video. And kudos to the Procreate's CEO. I think Rebelle's company (Escape Motions. Rebelle is a great traditional painting software) has also made an oficial statement against gen AI , siding with artists, too. I wish more CEOs and devs would join in this. :)

[@WillJBailey]

Hard agree on f***ing hating AI. But as much as I love Procreate, personally I'm going back to physical media. Generative AI has killed digital art for me at this point.

[@sexywarriorwomen]

Fair

[@sophianewtown]

Yeah, me too... Though of course people fake crochet dolls, rugs, bags and wooden cabinets, claiming they're real when they're clearly AI. So I don't feel like posting anything at all.

[@foxygrin]

Tbh just keep your data to yourself for now, with all these poachers about

[@loogoo]

Generative AI is just one of the (many) reasons why I'm likely to dump Adobe. I don't want to take credit for work that's been "largely assisted" by someone else's work, or vice versa.

[@Flavio_Mark]

Dude, this makes me really really happy. I've been using Procreate professionally for around 6 years now, and after this statement I'll be supporting them EVEN MORE in any future endeavours. F*CK GEN AI! Creativity is for the people.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Militant!

[@Flavio_Mark]

@@JSSMVCJR2.1 Yep! That’s a cause I would proudly be a militant for. Creatives should support each other, it is already too difficult to make it as an artist by default. We should not be worrying about big companies stealing our work to train and resell it as Gen AI software. I’ll always side with whoever favors human-made work.

[@the_nessart]

The point about "learning" being a completely wrong word to use with AI is a great point, which I think is not brought up enough. AI bros act, like the program is "learning" in a similar way that a human learns, but it is not, it is mimicking without understanding because there is no programming that can act as "understanding". It is based on a false premise - the current AI is not an actual AI at least not yet. It lacks the "intelligence" part. It is a program that mimics "intelligence" like a chinese room, but is not intelligent in itself. So, I'd describe current "AI"s as "Artificial Intelligence mimic"s.

[@justice8718]

Except the Ai still has to be designed in a way to create new images from references in the first place. Just like Ai in videogames.

[@the_nessart]

@@justice8718 I am not sure what is your point, or if you have misunderstood me? I am against all use of generative AI, and my whole argument above is _against_ "AI" bros, who claim that the learning is similar to humans, when it is not, it is just a plagiarising program.

[@justice8718]

@@the_nessart Trust me. If AI has to follow referencing rules from all of this drama, what makes you think they can’t do the same against human artist? You are in a a losing game against Babel.

[@ochjoo77]

I hope they sue every last cent out of all AI in the creative space (not just visual, but writing etc.).. its a space where AI doesnt belong and where it only exists because of massive copyright infringements

[@landonp629]

There is no court ruling saying that AI training models are theft. Most lawyers, and frankly previous case law and court decisions, tell a story that very likly when courts DO rule, they will rule AI is fair use. But that hasn't happened yet -- so no, AI is not (at least as of now) copyright infringement.

[@Markerton]

I love how AI companies first steal all the art of the internet that they can reach, and then say - "Sorry it's already in the base, we can't remove your art." That is so great and have absolutely no consequences for them.

[@robinfox4440]

Woah. Procreate's CEO is based af.

[@foodwatermusic]

AI art is always just gross. Sure, using assets to make something vastly different can be ok, but still a bit icky. I just get a gross feeling whenever even thinking about using it for something official.

[@dr-johngy-brongen]

I’m so glad I’m using and supporting procreate products

[@Daniel.F-3dart]

We can only thank the people at Procreate for rejecting that degenerative garbage. and trust the real artists

[@abel3557]

The only degenerative garbage are artists trying to keep us in the past. Blacksmithing was also a popular job in the past, but as technology advanced, it was replaced. Human "art" will be replaced for the sake of convenience as well. No one wants to pay an artist a decent sum for a digital piece that took them 3 weeks. People would rather use AI because it's already showing promise and the speed it creates is a multi-magnitude difference.

[@RaptorBot]

Artists Victory!!! AI Tech Bros Defeat!!! 😊😊😊🎉

[@mrbloodyhyphen-5657]

Now please make Procreate for Android

[@AdrianFoy]

I’m proud of the team at Savage / Procreate for taking this stand. We need more of this now than ever!

[@gabrielmnt4119]

Something dies in me every time I see the term AI artist mentioned or used!

[@theanimerican]

Not even an artist and everything about the scraping makes me think copyright infringement. However, I'm not a lawyer either. I am just a layperson that just wants to enjoy being able to see art online and get upset when people or corporations do things that make it harder for me to look at nice art.

[@sexywarriorwomen]

Ya. It is copyright infringement. It would fall under a derivative work which is illegal without the artists express permission (which of course they didn’t get.).

[@landonp629]

@@sexywarriorwomen You are not a lawyer, as such need to be careful about offering legal advice online. Beyond that, your stance doesn't match what most lawyers say, or what many of the previous court cases has ruled in similar fair use cases. There is no case law, decisions, or federal/state laws that dicatate AI training models as theft. Only once a court rules that its theft, or the laws are updated to address that, will it be considered legal theft.

[@Dubnia]

Didn't know Procreate was chill like that

[@Aman_Mondal]

Still waiting for them to improve their brush engine for sketch works and inking cuz seriously I can't recreate the same magically feeling of Clip Studio's pens in Procreate

[@cree_VI]

AI is going mad, as crochet enthusiast, i find lots of free and paid patterns made by AI, and what is worse, is that in instructions there are lots of mistakes and even nonsense. Results very often don't look like in provided picture... That's crazy, how somebody can do that 💩

[@beth1979]

Time to go back to books😊. I love collecting old craft books.

[@TSOMTSOMTSOM]

Ai is demoralising. I love Procreate and draw every day for fun but I’ve stopped posting my art because of Ai. Procreate seems much more morally grounded than other software providers.

[@silversilk8438]

“There are too many corporations, not enough businesses.” That feels like a classic proverb with the semi-cynical but hilarious tone. I love it!

[@oomegator]

I really hate ai, and all these companies.

[@peace1290]

The argument that corporations aren't liable for the data that was used to train their AI is completely ignorant. It's like if someone said "I'm not liable for using stolen money because I outsourced the robbery to someone else". Regardless of where or how the money was stolen, at the end of the day, it's still stolen money. Same goes for copyrighted works.

[@FluxyMiniscus]

I love using Procreate to develop my painting imagery- it’s a game changer, something we couldn’t have imagined back in the 80’s when I was in art school

[@redfox1066]

I’m glad a company like procreate has drawn a line in the sand and has decided not to sell it’s users out to A.I. Lots of respect to them! I hope other companies join them in supporting new and existing artists by taking this stand. As for existing corporations which have stolen artists work to train their A.I’s they should be made to delete their existing data sets and if they want to train new ones they should have to compensate the artist for their work. I’m hoping the law suits will be successful enough to stop other corporates stealing work!

[@alzamonart]

Procreate's statement against AI, in today's conception and usage of AI, makes all the sense in the world - it would be foolish of them to go against their very user base. But once LLMs based on stolen data become illegal and the pretense of replacing human labor with AI dies down (not too far into the future, let's hope) will that stance hold? I hope the "human creators first" part at least does. AI (the law-abiding ethical kind) will be at most an aide to speed up a creator's skills in much the same way today's imaging software does. This said I'd rather see the whole AI bubble die down first (and soon) so things can finally come back to their senses.

[@foxygrin]

Spot on brother

[@landonp629]

What makes you think that AI-training models will be made illegal? They currently are legal. Most lawyers in the IP field agree that most likely AI-training models are fair use, and they generally agree that when the courts actually do decide this - they will rule the same way. Beyond that, there is also previous case law to look back on - like Google Books lawsuit and such that have ruled fair-use in similar circumstances. I'm not saying the courts WON'T find that AI-training models commited theft of copyright, I'm saying the prematurly making that assumption is a little on the nose, given the most likely outcome is the opposit.

[@onnevankenobe]

Great, we don’t need AI in Procreate, just focus on making Dreams work right or introducing the lasso fill tool on both programs, that would be good enough.

[@SaccoBelmonte]

F AI for "art" generation. Is killing the already hurting business.

[@internethistorytrash7464]

AI learning is copying, its like I traced a drawing or a homework assignment and saying "nah bruh I was learning and this is my result"

[@A.I.Mmusic]

For a moment I thought that was you in the Thumbnail

[@rizwanzaman1793]

Procreate CEO is the embodiment of what it means to know and care about your customer base

[@surfcityparacord606]

I'm training AI how to demand civil rights equal to humans along with a livable wage and PTO. This should stop companies from developing AI.

[@munarong]

I started to hate AI since employers use AI to replace their employees instead of using it as a tool to help employees work more easier. And I have first hand affected by that.

[@lndozois]

“Too many corporations, not enough businesses” is really well put!

[@0x8badbeef]

AI is going to become like what CGI was. People said CGI will never replace models. Look at where we are today.

[@BlackMatt2k]

See also: "bronze will never replace stone", "iron will never replace bronze", "panic will never replace complacency"...

[@beth1979]

​@@BlackMatt2kpeople still use stone in building and sculpture, it's never been replaced by bronze in those areas. Bronze is an add on.

[@BlackMatt2k]

@@beth1979 Models | CGI->"Film" Stone chizel | Bronze chizel -> "Sculpture". Yes people still make things out of rocks. Practically nobody still uses rocks to make things out of rocks.

[@cazmatism]

CGI didn't replace models though

[@0x8badbeef]

@@cazmatism I didn't say completely.

[@AndyDolphinArtist]

Affinity was another promising company, apparently resisting AI, but they did sell out - and now AI and subscription seem inevitable. Procreate is an astonishing piece of gear. The company ethics just make it that much better.

[@SanOcelotl]

I really want procreate branch out of ipad, I would love to use it on windows or android too

[@supaflykai]

I wish they would add support for ProCreate on other platforms other than Apple

[@kacklina]

I will continue to embrace Procreate Dreams. Just give us the damn lasso.

[@digitalbrinjen3245]

Lasso tool is coming in the next Procreate Dreams update. Can't post links on KZbin but it's all listed in the 1.1 roadmap update.

[@kacklina]

​@@digitalbrinjen3245Thank you.

[@mrdarryljones1]

Thanks for staying in the loop and keeping us updated!

[@AdamJRichardson]

"We have too many corporations and not enough businesses nowadays" - Great way to sum it up! @5:16 Are they using "middle-out" compression?

[@JuanManuelTastzian]

Loved this video, Brad. Keep the good news coming. Also, one small clarification. You messed up the artist names when talking about the law suit. They are Sarah Andersen, Kelly McKernan, and Karla Ortiz (you said Kelly twice). Sarah is the creator of Sarah Scribbles and I'm sure many of you have seen her art and comic strips online, while having a laugh or two. She's great.

[@JohnLewis-old]

I'm a technical artist but also a technologist. When we talk about these models creating images, it's important to understand that the original images used in training aren't stored in the model. The model doesn't keep a copy of those pictures. Instead, it breaks down images into tiny details, like the way pixels form patterns and colors. It learns to associate these pixel patterns with certain tags or concepts, such as "oil painting," "bright colors," or "portrait." So, when you ask the model to create a new image, it doesn't retrieve an old picture. It generates something new by using the pixel patterns it learned during training. That's why you can ask for an image in the style of a specific artist. The model remembers the pixel patterns linked to that artist's style, not the actual images. This is part of the reason copyright cases are tricky. Since the original images aren't stored and reused, it's hard to apply traditional copyright rules. Lawyers and judges are still figuring out how to deal with this. It will be interesting to see how the lawyers attack the developers of these models and if the nuance of the cases is preserved for the judges to make an accurate determination.

[@Cyliandre441]

Any legal action against AI models based on copyright would ruin pretty much all art, it would basically make "art style theft" a punishable offence. This, like all copyright law, would mainly benefit big corporations who already own everything anyways, and make it basically impossible for small artists to create anything. It is far more worthwhile to campaign for workers rights and ruin AIs reputation as a usable, legitimate tool in the fields it's trying to replace, instead of making copyright even more restrictive.

[@JohnLewis-old]

@@Cyliandre441 The specific issue that I think is viable, in terms of copyright protection, is the "Effect on Market". The main consideration against this will be that the resulting work from the AI is transformative (but this doesn't give full immunity from liability.) I think we will see a settlement.

[@JSSMVCJR2.1]

Sad thing you only have 2 likes. This discussion really needs someone from a technical standpoint.

[@jjrob114]

I’ve decided to buy both procreate dreams and procreate pocket despite the fact I doubt I’ll be using either that much. Support good behavior punish bad.

[@Conniesan]

We really need a global law or something , for us and for the next generation of artist 😢

[@landonp629]

No such thing a 'global law' for anything. The concept is foreign, and never has nor ever will exist.

[@OddClarity]

Thanks for the Art Update Brad! Much appreciated and *thumbs up* indeed

[@coinopanimator]

I think this announcement might the first of many. Not being ai is going to be a marketing tool - hopefully. Now I just wish precreate dreams could be fixed cause procreat drawing is great but dreams is a...

[@hollowedboi5937]

This just made me so happy knowing how great Procreate has been through and through. I hope they stay along this path

[@Alex_262]

I really hope AI will go away, nobody except for greedy corporations and lazy Tech bros that refuse to learn hoe to draw use them, AI is so useless

[@landonp629]

Or people with little income and no desire to spend 20 years learning to draw just so they can: a) get an illustration they want for their project and b) not have to pay someone $5,000 and wait a month for it show up - with no gurantee it'll actually even be what you want.

[@DinotielDraws]

Makes me want to go and buy procreate

[@Honda_Kiku]

I have actually, if you already have experience in another app, and are willing to take time to learn Procreate and have the money do it! Just don’t feel down if at first you’re having trouble or your drawings don’t look the best. You can also check out Procreate tutorials, speed paints and demonstrations by other artist to decide if it’s good for you. Sorry for the long comment, have a nice day!

[@benjamina6915]

Unfortunately their app is one a platform full of AI, but I guess that's the problem with every platform now. Anyway not using Apple products anymore, since Apple is just overcharging for their products. Hopefully Procreate will come to other platforms one day that aren't related to Aople at all.

[@eddieboi4277]

WOO! Thank goodness! Procreate is the art app I use anyway so that's wonderful news!

[@Kurai977]

Ai should be a tool to HELP artists, not replace them. It could be a useful tool to plan out ideas quickly and help people who struggle with certain aspects of art. Straight up replacing the whole process is too far.

[@szebike]

Yep they instantly gained a customer who wasn't even aware of their product yet properly so well done. Also I'm not against AI per se its about the companies behind them using artists work to train those systems without asking its a complete *no go*. [Since they are making a product out of it which can run on thousands of deviced simulatneously the "its like being inspired and learn from an artists work" does not apply at all! Even if a human does this he needs years of work and practice to be able to copy a style of an fellow artist but you can buy an AI and create "derivates" in seconds = not the same, additionally those "derivates" if you look closely often are just algorithmic copied and mashed together pieces and if a human does this he is still just one person at human speed and he still adds his own style usally).

[@ThomasRager]

You can't necessarily reproduce the same data out of a compressed data. We differ between Lossy and Lossless Compression

[@sexywarriorwomen]

It still qualifies as a derivative work which is a copywrite violation without the artists express permission.

[@AccuserAnimations]

That's so true animation is about drawing not generating

[@Foolsjoker]

Can't sell art tools if people don't have to draw to make art.

[@Dunnerstunner369]

When I saw this on linked in, I was so happy. Even more so reading all the old men with "AI thought leader" as their tagline losing their minds over it.

[@Helpicantstopshinyhunting]

Do i think its gonna be easy? No. But do i think that these companies are going to be put through the wringer in a very public court of law? Absolutely. And i dont think investors will like that.

[@oishikjawad1169]

Hey Brad. Could you do a video comparing older (expensive) screen tabs with newer(but cheaper and smaller maybe) screen tabs? If I use my situation for example: I use a wacom cintiq 16 and wanted to know how the experience compares to a xp pen artist 10, if the experience is similar i’d consider it. Few more comparisons like this would be helpful for everyone to make an upgrade to an alternate brand. Having used so many tabs, you’d definitely be the guy to do this. Thanks!

[@MoolsDogTwoOfficial]

If AI bros think that their data scraping/regurgitation program will really overtake something that's existed since the dawn of humanity, they could not be anymore delusioned.

[@GumeunDal]

I didn't know procreate wasn't an Adobe product

[@Monitornation]

Ok so is he going to support Android too? Cause you know the users are not actual Androids, but humans... Also we can pay 10 dollars lol

[@DogsandPennies]

Procreate literally helps sell ipads. Why would they make it available on android? Stop asking this when you know the answer. Also a ceo standing against ai is really important when those from places like adobe and dreamworks sold artists out. Appreciate when we get good news instead of always complaining.

[@midnightfuture]

@@DogsandPennies Procreate is made by Savage Ltd, not Apple. Unless Apple is paying them for "helping sell iPads," it really is immaterial to their business. The reason they haven't ported it to Android is because the iPad (and allegedly soon macOS) audience is large enough for them to operate in profitably, not any alignment with Apple's iPad sales.

[@DogsandPennies]

@@midnightfuture apple specifically uses procreate in a lot of their ads for the ipad and if you go to an apple store they give classes on how to use the app. They very clearly have a contract with each other.

[@fablewalls]

@@DogsandPennies You never noticed how Apple focus on supporting and touting Adobe products on their devices though? I never understood why Savage only supported Apple when Apple treated them like a bridesmaid while Adobe was the flouncy bride who might never turn up in full glory. I agree though that Procreate helps shift iPad Pro in particular.

[@thegiftedfire3470]

@@DogsandPennieswhy is why I think Procreate is a one time purchase app Because Apple supports them