Prone Foil Frustration & Progress after 13 Sessions

[@IRWE905]

Great to hear your experience and beginner tips. Keep posting your progress!

[@leo-stief]

Thanks, I'll upload my further Progress :)

[@MensGroup]

This is really helpful. Thanks! I too have been having a lot of frustrating sessions.

[@leo-stief]

It can be so frustrating....

[@jeromesurffoil7033]

Prone foil in waves is a whole different game! So difficult but worth the effort! You're right, the correct equipment for the conditions is a huge factor for success or no success.

[@leo-stief]

But the difficulty is so wort it 😍

[@jeromesurffoil7033]

@@leo-stief My turn to switch it up and learn the flat water foil pumping this spring/summer. I will learn from your videos! 🤙

[@youdigsurf]

Hello i have 30 session and im not close to your level, i started exactly like you with a curve xlt which was too big encountered the same issue it too big to turn too the foil control you when it’s like that, i tried with a curve xl too , finaly got a xls but at this time i didnt understood back foot must be first on the board at take off so i was unable to even stay on the board. Now that i have moved my issues are finding the good spot to foil wave not too big not to powerfull with enough length and not shallow to fly. Im still using a gong lance prone foil board but with a armstrong foil which are totaly different than gong and way harder since you dont feel anydrag they way more sensitive. I think what helped you the most is dockstarting , you had a good balance , im planning during spring to start dockstarting seriously to improve my prone foiling, im trying freeriding too with the wing which can be another way to improve.

[@leo-stief]

I think every Foil experience, no matter if it's pump, sup, Wing, or Kite, translates to Prone Foiling pretty significantly. So I had a huge advantage of already being able to Foil! Which Armstrong Foil are you using? Have you started Dockstarting yet? I think its an excellent way to get control over the foil, however, it still takes a lot of time to master the Dockstart...

[@youdigsurf]

@@leo-stief will be using hs1850 for dockstart i tried one time with the curve xlt , was too cold to try again with the new foil im waiting to get no wind no surf conditions to try it again. I dont do enough ocean to freefly , lake are easier to wing in a lot of conditions no matter what the tide, wind orientation or wave are hehé since it's flat mostly.previously i used a hs1550v2 for prone, I got a hs1250 very recently will try to prone with it soon .

[@JetSurfingNation]

i live also in Baleal. I use the Foil drive to help me motorize my foiling, it's very fun! I did a review lately Be careful with the rocks. Crazy you went into shallow rocks with a foil be careful

[@leo-stief]

The rocks are truly scary, I will not go Foiling on shallow Reefs again :0 I really want to try the Foil drive it must be a lot of fun in proper unbreaking swell

[@stevegwilliam3925]

Awesome!!! Looks like you are doing great!!!! Thanks so much for posting 🤙

[@leo-stief]

Thanks :))

[@FoilingPastor]

awesome Leo, wishing you lots of success. I also plan to transition from pumpfoiling to prone foiling...

[@leo-stief]

Thanks Mate :) Prone is really different but honestly way more fun :D I love it haha

[@flyingfootage]

Never seen this before, Good work 👍🏄🏼‍♂️

[@leo-stief]

Thanks! A Lot of fun for sure 😇

[@alexandrenahum1425]

I started swimming pool to have a good paddle! I use to hate that but now I like, and I can pump for hours doing prone ;) You should definitely try.

[@leo-stief]

I will, then I can last longer in the next Prone vacation :)

[@erbartlett]

Very cool to see the progression

[@AndrewWybrew-extECo]

Your doing fantastic keep at it 🙂

[@safajinyo]

wow awesome post! subscribed!! Hope to see more!

[@brvfr1]

Hi, I am an experienced foil kitesurfer and I have been trying to learn surf foil too, never surfed before. I tried it 5 times and I am struggling to catch the wave even laid down on the board… how was your learning curve along the sessions? Am I too slow on my learning curve? I have a 4’4” board with 39 L and a mid aspect wing 1225 cm2. Any thoughts about my set up?

[@leo-stief]

Your Setup sounds good! What's your weight? My learning curve was pretty much not existing for the first almost 10 Sessions. I managed to paddle in a few times but couldn't really time it properly so I lost most waves while paddling in. I think it's a long way to learn the paddle in and pop up, especially when there is no prior surfing experience. I've had a hard time too for sure!

[@Rafabi78]

great explaining, i feel like was you. thank you

[@KiteKrazKev]

What pop up method are you using for what worked best for you and what didn't I'm learning and using the standard surf pop up but wondering about the back foot first pop up

[@Wksfr]

I have just started winging. Going to try prone foil tomorrow, what do you reckon to gong 85l lemon board, plus xxls fluid, 1700cm2 wing and 65 cm mast for first tries?

[@Alejandro388]

Hi Leo, been following you for few years now. For me it's always been strange: so many people (including you) dedicate a lot of time learning to foil/wing-foil in inland lakes where there are virtually no waves. But to me it seams that the "final destination" of winging is being able to have fun surfing down ocean/see waves, because that infinite depower that wing provides (unlike kite or windsurf), or just go full prone without the wing... where as wind is just a method of propulsion. So as you now have learned both in-land foiling and ocean foil-surfing, what is your take on that? im basically asking you to find a crack in my argument ... :) Myself, im mainly kite-foil, but last year got Hipe 5.5, Gong Plus 5.0 and Fluid XLS front wing (same as yours) - the couple of sessions i tried the combo on inland lake, i was not very stoked ...

[@leo-stief]

Unfortunately, there is no Crack in ur Argument. Foiling is way more fun in waves and for me the ultimate bliss is just riding wave after wave after wave... Also everytime that I'm at the sea I don't wont to go back to the lake as its comparably really boring there. The problem is just that my life centre is currently in berlin, germany where I can't leave for another year and have to drive about 3 h to get to the sea everytime. So the only alternativ to the comparably boring flatwater foiling is not getting a session at all. So I keep foiling the inland water bodys, even though its way less fun than in the ocean. And i think the reason so many people do it is that its the only fun watersport which does somehow work inland where there are no waves, no good winds etc. So its either winging/ Pumping in the flat or no water sports at all, and riding the flatwater is still way more fun than riding nothing :) Best regards from Portugal, where Foiling is more fun :D

[@Alejandro388]

@@leo-stief wow, thanks for detailed and honest answer! Im in Baltics, also live 3hours drive from sea coast. Need to find a way how to remote-work straight from Portugal! Enjoy your awesome vacation in Europe's Hawaii :)

[@youdigsurf]

For flat water wing foiling there other thing to consider , like working on your manoeuver the fun is here jumping and so on , sometime racing friend can be fun too and it’s the best place to start wingfoiling , im just starting to get in ocean more and more im look like a beginner again haha.

[@Alejandro388]

@@youdigsurf haha, same for me when i started kitefoiling on lakes and later went to the sea

[@Alejandro388]

@@leo-stief Hello, a have a question: I am deciding on the volume/size of my next inflatable... can you tell me if you can duck-dive with your Hipe 4.8 when you are paddling to the lineup? If you cant, is it a big deal in the waves like you had in Peniche?

[@andreasnitsch3159]

Super cool! Ich habe auch ein Hype zum Wingen. Das Brett ist super praktisch aber es klebt ein bisschen auf dem Wasser. Ist das beim prone Foilen kein Problem? Ich würde das auch gerne mal ausprobieren. Leider kann ich noch keinen Dockstart. Ich werde noch viel üben müssen 😅 . Bist den Veloce XLH schon mal gefahren? Ich hoffe er taugt dir. Mach weiter so und pass bei den Steinen auf deinen Kopf auf. Viele Grüße Andi

[@leo-stief]

Hey Andreas, Danke nochmal für den XLH - Ich habe ihn jetzt her schon 4 mal gefahren und es macht einfach nur Spaß 😍 Mega geil das Teil aber ein bissl schnell da muss ich mich noch dran gewöhnen haha. Das Hipe hat mir bis jetzt echt super gefallen fürs Prone Foilen aber keine Ahnung wie ich darüber denke wenn ich mal ein Hardboard ausprobiert habe :D Liebe Grüße aus Portugal

[@Robert-lb8kj]

Do you got a white helmet? Think i got a video of you foiling at baleal haha. Was there around the same time

[@leo-stief]

No way how cool! I had a white Helmet with a bunch of stickers on it :) I would really appreciate the video :)) could you send it to me [e-mail] ? Greetings

[@fabianzac]

Hey Leo, coole Videos! Komme auch von Pump foilen! Würdest du sagen ich könnte mit einem 88l wingfoil board meine ersten prone/surf foil Versuche machen? Würdest du mir eher zum Takuma LOL 1300 oder 1600 raten? Wiege 82 kg.

[@leo-stief]

Hey Fabian, Ich würde es einfach probieren klappt bestimmt für den Anfang fast mit jedem Board solange man damit halbwegs anpaddeln kann :D Ich habe die LOL's nur einmal kurz gefahren kann es also kaum einschätzen wie viel Auftrieb die beim Prone haben. Aber ich fahre hier grad nichts größeres als 1400 und der ist mir schon fast zu groß in den mini Wellen :D

[@PietroDSpeedou]

Really helpful tkx

[@vim55k]

To buy one board for dock start and for prone - is it ok? for no experience yet with surfing or foiling, only sup. weight 93kg. Something like 40L, x-over xxl ?

[@indodom1141]

a professional surfer at 85kgs would be on 27 litre board or slightly more, i would say for someone at an older age even the ability to catch a wave with that litre-age would be an issue, and that's before you account for the foil. Yet with persistence you seem to have overcome the hurdle

[@leo-stief]

I'm on a something 30 to 35-litre Board now and I love it! However, I would go back to the 48 l for learning immediately and think one should only switch to something smaller when feeling really comfy on the bigger board :)

[@indodom1141]

@@leo-stief I do surf a 32 litre short board now, but now older running at 82kgs now so a little heavier but would like to try surf foiling, i have not done any before, I had a mispent youth and don't have an issue with surfing however foil size and board size is something I am trying to get my head around. Maybe a 2 or multiple step process?

[@Alexi-ze4qg]

Awesome that you posted and shared your experience. But...beginners please do NOT try to learn near regular surfers! We are all ambassadors of this new sport and when you scare other people or god forbid hit someone because you are out of control you become the potential reason why prone surfing gets banned from surf beaches.

[@FabiodeSaldanha]

what front wing size would you recommend? i got a gong curve MT 1150cm2 but think it might be a bit small.

[@leo-stief]

Depending on the waves, your weigth and surf/ foil skills. the Curve Mt is not a bad choice! Has plenty of lift for its size, pumps relatively easy and is easy to steer. I used the Curve XLH a fair bit and it was nice for the first few sessions but at a certain point it was simply to lifty for takeoffs when waves where bigger than 2 foot. Now I'm using a below 1000 and it comes up more then eraly enough most of the time.I would recommend to get used to one setup to really get comfy on it. Let me know about conditions, weigth and skill, then meaybe i can give you a clearer recommendation, however I'm also not a pro Surf Foiler, so my advice is probably biased and other will advice differently :)

[@FabiodeSaldanha]

@@leo-stief thanks for the reply! I really love your content Leo! So more info: Weight: 70kg Skill: surfing since many years (intermediate level I would say). Surf foiling I have 7 or 8 sessions. I can get up and fly for a couple of seconds often I fall off quickly but sometimes I manage to ride it until I lose speed and touch the water again. I can’t pump at all yet. I was thinking of getting a front wing with more surface area because I guess then it’s easier to pump? I’m looking at the gong xover but that only has either L 1300 (probably not much difference to my current 1150) or XL 1650cm2 which feels like it might be too much? Hmm but yeah I would love to surf foil on days with very very small waves so maybe 1650cm2 mounted at the back of the board is okey for that. I’m also excited about the new gong NOTW and Scura. I’m on a 5.0” lance now and catching small small waves is difficult. I think with a 6,8” NOTW and xl xover I would be able to catch very small stuff the question is: is it easier or harder to learn pumping on these bigger longer boards. Do you have experience with that?

[@FabiodeSaldanha]

In actually parked just a few minutes away from aviles salinas where u surfed in the other video from you :)

[@leo-stief]

@@FabiodeSaldanha Thanks Fabio, i love that people like the stuff i put up haha! Okay based on your weigth and surf skill I would first of all say, trust the process! After 8 Sessions I could not do shit, and I could pump perfectly in flat water before. I think it took me like 20 Sessions or so to be able to pump out of the wave and to ride a bit more consistent. And they were 20 long long sessions. The real break through for me came later on when I had another 4 weeks in mellow conditions with small waves. So my latest Surf Foil Video is basically me after consistent 2 months of a session everyday... It really takes time to get good... For the Equipment: I would suggest to stay in the L range of Foils with Gong, the XL will probably be to lifty for 70kg, making the take of way harder when it lifts before you pop up. A bigger Front wing does defenitely make your life easier for pumping! But Surface Area is not everything, and it comes with a huge downgrade in speed and controllability in the wave. My Advice would be to go for something like the Curve H in L. Its big enough to pump good, yet still turny and not too lifty for takeoffs. Generally High Aspect Foils Pump better. In the beginning its a bit weird to get used to them, but once you are, they are simply more fun in the surf as they can keep up a certain speed and don't require much power to pump. I'm very confident in saying that you can pump the Curve H L longer in the surf than the X-Over XL, as the X Over is way more draggy. And its important to have low drag in the wave and to keep the speed up in order to get out of the wave efficiently. The X Over XL migth get up to speed, but as sonn as your not in the perfect spot anymore it will slow down immediatly, requiring energy to keep up, whilst a High Aspect Foil will most likely just glide on. I hope this helps with the Foil Choice! I would not recommend to go too High Aspect, for example I love the new Veloce HDW now (have the s 750 sqcm) but without proper proper pump technique the thing is a nightmare to get used to... With proper technique it's simply beautiful as all the drag is gone. For the board: smaller board is easier to pump! Yet, bigger board is way easier to get going. I prefer easier to get going over better pump still to be able to surf ultra micro waves. Your current size is perfect I would say! good compromise between long efficient to paddle and not too long to make it too hard to pump. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have further questions! :)

[@leo-stief]

@@FabiodeSaldanha Awesome! Its truly the perfect spot for learning there!!!! Wish I was there rigth now haha

[@stkl23]

Dave West hat ein gutes Video zum Take-Off auf diesen ultrakurzen Boards: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4KQgHljj9B5a9k Wie pumpt es sich denn durch Weißwasser - das muss doch super instabil sein, oder? Anyway, ich will das dieses Jahr auf Fuerte auch probieren. Suche aktuell nach einem geeigneten Board mit genug Volumen, aber eben auch klein genug, dass man es entspannt pumpen kann. Außerdem will ich das Ding dann auch bei viel Wind zum Wingen nutzen. 1/2 Körpergewicht in Litern könnte gehen, was denkst du?

[@leo-stief]

Ich denke 1/2 Körpergewicht sollte gut gehen! Aber die Dinger zum Wingen zu fahren ist echt hart finde ich, dafür sehr geil wenn man dann erstmal oben ist... Ich würde gerne mal probieren kleinere kürzere Boards zum Prone Foilen zu fahren muss schon spaß machen wenn man weniger Schwungmasse hat und das Setup Effizienter wird. Durch das Weißwasser pumpen ist extrem komisch! Mega instabil und irgendwie nur sehr schwer vorhersehbar weil es manchmal funktioniert aber manchmal auch sofort komplett stallt. Aber ich würde behaupten, dass es nach knapp 25 Sessions dann doch besser wurde, vor allem wenn man genug speed um danach zu recovern... Fuerte soll traumhaft sein fürs Prone Foilen! Ich werde mich jetzt erstmal auf das SUP Downwind Game stürzen :D

[@ilyasemenov8838]

Can't wait haha)

[@evancurry1279]

How did the inflatable board work

[@leo-stief]

Quite good actually. Takes some more energy to pump it but for me, the benefits outweigh the disadvantages :)

[@huzcer]

@@leo-stief would a bigger hipe like the 5'3 (that I want to use for winging) be totally impossible to use to try foil surfing also?

[@pohoiki922]

Dangerous you gonna run someone over one day

[@leo-stief]

I do really need emptier spots...