Propaganda Games - Ethical Game Design - Extra Credits

Lazy game design can unintentionally misinform players if the designers don't question their cultural assumptions as they create a game's mechanics. What questions is a game asking, and what questions is it NOT asking?
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(Original air date: October 12, 2011)
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[@thatguythere6161]

HUGE props to James for realizing he just thought the game was fine because he agreed with the message. More people should second guess themselves like this.

[@That_One_Kobold]

Watching in 2020 and hearing "Will soon be more common than watching tv"

[@Oceanrex]

I watch battery any TV but I play hours straight of X Box.

[@Merennulli]

What is this "Tee Vee" you speak of?

[@sabbyblue]

I thought a propa ganda was a British person taking a good look at something

[@user-ft3jq5vi2l]

Why are the fish fighting eachother? A british dude just crossed the river.

[@Xman34washere]

The f-

[@kitsunesden8085]

Person: (Sees kids with no direction in their lives). Armies, cults and evil organizations: Recruits

[@0x777]

I'd rather have a person with no direction than one going the wrong way on a highway...

[@the_actual_alex]

Person: (Sees kids with no direction in their lives). Armies, cults and evil organizations: *recroots*

[@r.coburn3344]

It’s free real estate!!

[@toaster2371]

I see you made the army that protects your country be a villain

[@commisarcat7418]

Its free real estate

[@carsonscott1107]

"Remember: No Russian."

[@Terza15]

Them Slav bad boys!

[@owenofhb8319]

@@Terza15 I’m Slavic, but not the way you think.

[@dimandos48]

Frick you mate let the slightly less stupid sink in.

[@kelsongardner6105]

haystack Owen Byrns was using English.

[@this_isnt_patrick]

Ладно

[@Liggliluff]

(4:10) That reminds me of the KZbinr who looked at world maps and statistics, and one of them was what country people of each country in general dislike. The person didn't had any issue with any country being disliked, except for when USA was disliked, and questioned the validity of the data.

[@kishinasura1504]

Gee I wonder why they would hate USA...

[@germangamer7377]

Link?

[@ortherner]

Honestly i wouldn’t be surprised how hated America is lol

[@annsh.6487]

Team Fortress 2 must be nailing it, then. The nine mercenaries, all of different nationalities, all stereotypes making fun of and insulting each other so that no-one in particular is the real enemy.

[@sAmukavIeira09]

yes

[@MultiTrollface999]

the bots are the enemy lol

[@humious5987]

@@MultiTrollface999 indeed

[@gurratheman949]

Team fortress are for professionals. its a great job mate!

[@mewmew8932]

I often say, "Is it really racism if it offends everyone?" TF2 is a good example

[@secondpsycho6577]

Half of the 2019 comments: "Boy, has Extra Credits Changed." The other Half: "Wow, this supports the July 3rd video a lot." Me: *Greatly Amused.*

[@takatamiyagawa5688]

Looks like it's the exact same writer too. ...a writer who some commenters on the most current video seem to still miss.

[@AsterixKearn]

Boy, this video aged well, eh?

[@skaterdude7277]

@Space Ghost save them from their dumb space ghost!

[@pickle5666]

I miss this channel, they made such great videos...

[@jacobhu4431]

Yeah....

[@benjamindover7171]

Outlast The Dark yeah I’m surprised this didn’t blow up back then

[@Z50nemesis]

to be fair ,this video was made in 2012 when we all were so politcally naive

[@Giga_Pudding]

"... has this already happened in other places without me realising it?" Me: O ___ O * sudden existential crisis *

[@limbonlegs1662]

That line kinda hit me like a truck

[@Venator-Class_Star_Destroyer]

same O_O

[@KittXenn]

Japanese 'crustacean' research simulator

[@richardsantos5981]

SSC for academical purposes ofc

[@8ballentertainment.885]

Cetacean*

[@sethleoric2598]

"Cephelapod" research

[@howardxing5885]

@@sethleoric2598 LOL you research octopuses

[@sethleoric2598]

@@howardxing5885 k

[@EXHellfire]

"No one expects you to be perfect, but things do get a whole of a lot worse when we don't try" That line is probably the best I heard in this channel so far.

[@aickavon]

Day 9385. Still haven't found bias in Minecraft. Must be perfect.

[@aickavon]

***** oh look an opinion.

[@adferxis]

Aickavon the Techpriest THE MAIN CHRACTER IS A WHITE MALE SEXIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISTTTTT

[@IJustLoveStories]

Aickavon the Techpriest Aickavon the Techpriest White skeletons are capable of using advanced weaponry while the colored mobs are not!

[@adferxis]

ThatGuyWithHisHat LMAOOOOOO HOLY SHIT YOU GOT A (very poor) PINT

[@hexazalea1793]

+Aickavon the Techpriest but thats 25 years... Do you know something about minecraft that i dont?

[@physe8052]

I tip my hat to Spec Ops: The Line in this case.

[@Ares_gaming_117]

aye

[@wojszach4443]

There are few other games before spec ops, drakengard from 2003 which was total disaster but asked you important questions about main characters of rpg games,after all they kill dozens of people and are fine with that. in 2010 another his game nier gestalt, based on 9/11 translated into fantasy world without any conections to our, just simple 2 sides shouting that they are good guys so who is good anyway? there is really clever use of perspectives there.

[@GeneralChangFromDanang]

Spec Ops on PS1 scared me off of that franchise. That was a hard ass game.

[@jiminstinyhands7776]

sikhs wear turbans, not muslims but i get what yall were saying

[@lixerman99]

'Wearing turbans is common among Sikhs, including women, who refer to it as a Dastar. In certain other faith communities, the headgear also serves as a religious observance, including among Shia Muslims, who regard turban-wearing as Sunnah Mu'akkadah (confirmed tradition).' So basically both do but Sikhs are more common

[@jiminstinyhands7776]

oh didnt know that. thanks!

[@jiminstinyhands7776]

apud harald noah fence but what are you talking about

[@apudharald2435]

The stereo type becomes positively dangerous when waaaaay too many people who don't have anything to do with Islam, radical, moderate, or otherwise, are harassed because of the stereotype

[@PomLamb]

One of the many purposes of propaganda is to garnish the emotions of people. People who believe it will more be more than willing to fight with what the propaganda is aimed at with extreme prejudice. Propaganda is not truthful in many areas, and for the most part it's misleading.

[@nddragoon]

"we're not saying games can desensitize us to violence" boy, that aged well

[@Hawaii_Foxx-0]

This video did age well bud, the July 3rd video has no effect on the quality of this one lmfao.

[@erin3967]

Feather Soft Firebender whats the july 3rd video everyone is talking about? Im confused

[@mileshardin6906]

aye'

[@magica3526]

this makes the same point as that video... that games have the power to change how we think

[@MsZsc]

Thalia Storer except one is filled to the brim with bias and misguided emotion with next to no research

[@flyboymike111357]

I don't think it's fair to equate having an opinion or point of view and expressing them in art with propaganda. Being able to consume art made from many different points of view expressing many different opinions is fundamental in being able to better understand other people. As well as to better understand you own thoughts and feelings. But when you expressing you views in any form of art I think it's important to understand that: no matter how correct you truly believe you are, it's okay for your audience too disagree.

[@badusernam]

Dude this is extra credits, nuance is illegal here

[@ImortalZeus13]

The length of this video is 9:11 CONSPIRACY.

[@BillZypher]

DigitalZ 9:10 for me.

[@Exnaut_]

DigitalZ says 9:10 for me

[@ImortalZeus13]

Bill Zypher breno 1801 For some reason when youtube last updated, the length of this video dropped by one second.

[@Exnaut_]

DigitalZ it's evil magic

[@HerocowTheRusher]

DigitalZ stil 9:11 for me.

[@eric1766]

7:36 Some games have "costumes" you can put on that hide your actual armor without reducing its effectiveness. Not saying it excuses the "showing of skin", but it's an option nontheless.

[@user-qj1bt1uv2n]

Perhaps an even better option is to have multiple outfits of varying levels of dress or lack thereof and let the player customize their gear with enchantments.

[@Taitetsai]

This episode really pushes the point that July 3rd's 2019 video was attempting to make much more eloquently.

[@ariandynas]

*cetacean* research simulator. Not *CRUSTacean* One of these is a mollusc. The other is a mammal. There is a difference.

[@lettuceprime4922]

It took me a second to find a connection between Crabs and Whales. The only thing I could figure was that there was some Lobster hunting simulation they never highlighted. I see how the error was made, but it's hilarious to think that no one it that, and now it's on the internet forever and they'll never get a chance to redo it. (Also, Crustaceans are a sub-phylum of Arthropods. If you want to be super pedantic - they're "Malacostracans." That would be taxonomical equivalent to "Mammal.")

[@helloworld2848]

Neither of them are Molluscs.

[@ariandynas]

You are quite right. I meant to say arthropod.

[@hondacivet]

That bothered me too, haha.

[@lytbulb808]

When he cussed I literally said WOW because of the fact that he NEVER does that. Ya, this game fucked up real bad.

[@eldritch_gunsmith]

Lytbulb when does he curse?

[@augustinedaudu9203]

Lytbulb hmm

[@axcicos7133]

I think he meant the Call of Juarez episode.

[@joshou3759]

He swears *sometimes*

[@finnishguy4002]

Lytbulb He did NOT curse

[@Supahpowahnerd890]

I don't think killing Islamic terrorists really encourages the player to hate Muslims. The reason anti-Islam sentiment has been on the rise can be traced to other factors.

[@jackkerger164]

I don't think it actively encourages it, no, but I think it has made it seem commonplace, even if that's not a good thing.

[@TheArchitectOfDreams]

Structured Religion and Mass Media

[@silversamm]

It starts in reality and is reinforced and applauded with games, among other media.

[@yoavmor9002]

The Muslim sentiment is because their rather-common-in-comparison-to-other-people-groups (did I really have to write this? Wouldn't typing rather common be enough?) use of terrorism. Terrorism of course comes from the word terror, which means fear. And as a wise man once said: "Fear leads to anger, [and] anger leads to hate."

[@tejaskapil6803]

Imagine if this was released within the last 3 years

[@KOkami03]

For some reason, this is making me think of a lot of those games with so called "morality" systems, where the ending are generally either "You are a saint!" or "You are an absolute monster!" with no in-between...

[@vicentetemes5793]

On one of my first playthroughs of Skyrim I joined the Stormcloaks thinking "hey, they didn't try to behead me ". Up until I had to assist in the battle of Whiterun; then I could only look around and think "Is this the effect of a war on a city? ". I actually put the game down for a few hours after that, just to think.

[@Zadamanim]

+Vicente Parker This is why I don't join either side, lol.

[@jaieet]

+Vicente Parker If you read up on the lore of the game, you learn that the war is ultimately pointless. The big problem is the Thalmer, and their desire to de-construct Nirn to become immortal. They're like Alduin in that respect. Except After Alduin finishes, the world is reborn. With the Thalmer? Not so much ;p

[@vicentetemes5793]

Mystery Yoghurt Yeah, that's the other big reason why I am all for the Empire now. That, the problems of war, and the fact that it is the goddamn Roman empire with MAGIC.

[@PanzerIVAE]

+Vicente Parker TBH since I played Oblivion before Skyrim even if the Imperials and the Empire tried to behead me I have always thought that the Stormcloaks were like Rebels or trying to take down the Empire And after playing Skyrim alot I still do think the Stormcloaks are still just people rebelling against the Empire, I have seen they do have a good point that they don't like the Imperial led Empire rule their country of Nords but it is for the better of Tamriel if they were united

[@Kentbot1]

+Aerunn Allado And also, the Stormcloaks are a bunch of racists, with Ulfric at the head spewing hate-speech about anyone who isn't a Nord. That's why I never joined him

[@natkatmac]

I just watched this after the EC video on female characters, and I thought of a combination: He mentions in the other video that a maternal theme could be powerful. Like a mother protecting her children from the scourge of war. If we note that a lot of AAA level FPS games commonly take place in the Middle East, what would happen if a game was developed using both? Could you imagine? A Middle Eastern mother, fighting and fleeing for the survival of her children. If the mechanics were smooth and the story impactful, that'd be a game I'd pay top dollar to play.

[@UnknownSpartan007]

You know what would be really funny? If some MMO out there took the "females are scantily clad, males look like badasses" trope and flipped it on it's head such that the males looked like strippers and the females... well, you couldn't tell that they were females under their 7 meter thick armor. I just think that'd be hilarious.

[@loganrose139]

UnknownSpartan007 this has probably happened somewhere. And while I'm not certain if call it a trope it would be funny

[@stormbringer2189]

I don't know maybe guys are just more open to stimulates, a borner isn't something you can turn on and off you know

[@brunnokamei9623]

UnknownSpartan007 This MMO'S already exists. Many of this games features men showing their abs and muscles. Difference is: Men don't give a fuck about it.

[@stormbringer2189]

Brunno Henrique Kamei Carneiro Yeah I main rock in Soul Calibur and he is almost naked. I have no issue with him.

[@Ranzord95]

Actually sexualization isn't just about how much skin is shown. I mean, look at berserkers or Kratos. The image of a half naked tuff guy wrecking shit around doesn't aim to look sexy, but rather showing off the ripped badass he is, "do u even lift bru". Now, if you do stuff like putting that guy on a tight tiny slip, make the skin look like it's always all oiled up, reduce muscular volume to a point where it's not that frightening but rather easily appealing, making the camera take certain angles, or making the crotch bulge and bounce at nothing, that could be an equivalent of the old cute girl with a bikini armor and jello tits. Yes it would look funny, but because of how ridiculous it looks, since we are not used to see male characters sexualized.

[@TunLank]

After seeing this video I have learned but one thing. That "suck on it sideways" is the greatest insult of all time and I shall use it daily.

[@gavmcdonald7684]

I've always liked the not quite so subtle way Dishonoured and Deus Ex:MD/HR gave you the option to play their game and not to kill anyone.

[@Nathanchooper]

"Don't google this game" Now EC, which one of those words do you think I'm gonna ignore...?

[@erikthegodeatingpenguin2335]

Nathanchooper I know! I know! The word "this". I nearly didn't hear it myself.

[@jadeforest7924]

Nathanchooper probably "google". Bing is the only search engine that is actually useful.

[@erikthegodeatingpenguin2335]

Darth Kaas Yep. Bing is love. Bing is life.

[@AppleBiscuits]

"Game"It's actually an interactive experience, you racist.

[@nej3157]

Darth Kaas This message has been brought to you by Microsoft.

[@Oceanrex]

7:25 Guess I'll leave my stomach exposed. No one will EVER stab me though the stomach. -Every RPG Woman Character Ever

[@Supahpowahnerd890]

There are also games that are used to promote safety. It's not propaganda in the traditional sense, but it is in its own way since it is a piece of media that seeks to get across a certain emotion, idea, or principle. For example, "The Drowning Game" was created to teach people to wear life jackets when in open water. It simulates the sensation and hopeless feeling of drowning. These games aren't necessarily dishonest but seek to make the player feel something.

[@TheGeoshark]

+Sameinaður Norðurlöndin The drowning simulator fucked me up. I have great headphones and an intense fear/fascination of the ocean. I realized I'd been holding my breath for a while when I was finished with it.

[@SeekerGoldstone]

That's exactly what propaganda is in a traditional sense... you encounter way more propaganda than you like to think. The "please wash your hands" sign is propaganda. Election campaign ads are propaganda. "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" is propaganda. But now you have been taken in by an even greater propaganda... the message that the word "propaganda" is only fitting for the evil villain. That "those other guys" in facist states or with ominous agendas use propaganda and your honest and open government would never do such a bad thing... also, buy war bonds and support our troops and loose lips sink ships and the Red Menace is in your neighborhood. It's gotten to the point that we don't even recognize that something is intending to influence our mode of thought unless it's titled "Crazy communist propaganda"... because there's no such thing as capitalist propaganda right? Remember to text your vote for your favourite American Idol contestant... some charges may apply.

[@jiminstinyhands7776]

+Seeker Goldstone this comment was propaganda lmao

[@SeekerGoldstone]

jimin's tiny hands exactly

[@williamelmore4100]

Sameinaður Norðurlöndin i

[@TinoMexineoMtz]

This video should be required reading for july 3rd’s video

[@wilkham2678]

huhuhu.

[@d-skullgaming696]

Well, its more eloquent, but that only serves to make July 3rd's video look worse.

[@takatamiyagawa5688]

Hard to say for sure now, but I'll just assume this video had 1.1M views, 23k likes and 2.2k dislikes a few days ago.

[@JodyBruchon]

HAHAHAHAHA it's great how completely self-unaware they are.

[@thebravebobo5116]

What’s the July 3rd video

[@fukyomammason]

Aren't...aren't turbans a Sikh thing? (I mean, anyone can wear a turban, but devout Sikhs don't cut their hair, and so - at least, I think - some wrap it up to keep it out of the way.)

[@fukyomammason]

Cool, good to know. My point was that he was criticizing ignorance while being semi-ignorant (or at least generalizing) himself. It's hard to level criticism at 'shoot all the brown people' games when he still makes the same mistakes or generalizations they do, albeit much less offensively.

[@ibrahimx28]

CallMeCactusSok I think they did that on purpose. Sort of to illustrate the ignorance and generalizations that people make of other people (like how all Native Americans are the same). EC has done that a few times to see whether the viewers were paying attention.

[@samiamtheman7379]

+CallMeCactusSok Weird thing is out of all the shooter games I've played, only two of them involve shooting middle easterners. Call of Duty 4 and Battlefield 3. Both of which don't even have you shooting them all the time and neither have a middle eastern person as the main villain.

[@samiamtheman7379]

Dotatchin K That is call of duty 4. That is one of the only games I have where there are middle eastern enemies and even in that game the main villain isn't even middle eastern.

[@sykeraid4944]

+CallMeCactusSok As a turban-wearing and bearded Sikh (as well as a devout gamer) yes, turbans are a religiously-mandated in Sikh theology along with the growing of the hair. Some Sikhs don't wear turbans and therefore cut their hair and beards (mostly Sikhs living outside of India, especially the United States and Canada), but I personally don't see them any less a Sikh. But the point I'm sure EC is making is that the media, like cinema and video games, have reinforced the stigma of the turban-wearing and bearded brown guy as a radical Arab-Islamist even though a lot of Muslims and Arabs don't wear turbans at all and if they do, it's more out of geographical culture than religious mandates.

[@somebodylikesbacon1960]

6:34 This pie chart is amazingly accurate.

[@maitaniyama]

One thing about Japan's whale killing: only a EXTREMELY small part of Japan eat whale. Those who eat whale consists of a small island/town or two. Most Japanese people do not eat whale, nor do they ever plan to, and those who eat it many time are forced to by the school system as mass distributed lunch. Animal activists over dramatize whale hunting saying that ALL of Japan kills and eats whales, and I don't think that you can just generalize an entire country.

[@BigTuk]

CaitSeith Well Whales were valuable because they were a resource bonanza. The fat and oil, the meat, and the bones were all useful WHale bone once had a value not unlike Ivory. and yes the environmentalists do over blow the whole issue. as they often tend to do. I have never eaten whale meat but I would not be adverse to trying it. Honestly why should I conceptualize a whale any differently than a pig, a deer, a horse or a cow, or a head of cabbage. These are all living things that I have killed in order to consume

[@BigTuk]

CaitSeith All the more reason to hunt them... you see.. by being edible and useful in a number of ways is the very reason that chickens, goats, pigs, cows, and turkeys are not going to go extinctany time soon? Once we developed a dependency on them we naturally figured out ways to breed and cultivate them. The best way to save a species is find as many uses for it as possible. As is.'because their beautiful and majestic' doesn't quite work.

[@offtopfloor]

BigTuk Yeah... Whale farms don't work for several reasons. It's like how female pandas are only fertile for three times a year. If she has two children, she goes "Nope, I only want one" and leaves the other to die. I believe the whale also has some reproduction issues. Not the same as the panda, but they have issues.

[@BigTuk]

Peanut Buttercus And much like pandas then... if whales cannot adapt to the world they live in.. well... they will be replaced eventually by something more suitable. Yeah I know it sounds cold but yeah, harsh reality. Been happening every since life started on this planet

[@offtopfloor]

BigTuk Yeah, I know. But we're trying to stop them from dying out because they're dying from human interference. If they were to die out slowly, giving the ecosystem time to adjust, it'll be fine, but we're killing them too abruptly. Oh, they're majestic too. At least that's the reason most people give.

[@taibasarovadil]

EC: those game dont deserve new traffic Me, with my short memory who forgets this games in 5 minutes: nice

[@TheAmoring]

I get your point, but I think something we must always remember is that no product is free of background. As you pointed out in the end, what you call "lazy design" usually is just the perpetuation of certain cultural aspects that somehow are naturalized. I'm sure that the designers haven't thought that much on how they would portray women or muslin, but we must always ask: why did they go for such portrays so naturally? Again, I get your point, but just remember: not only propaganda games perpetuate ideologies or mindsets. All media products do that. For instance, lets take the Disney Movie Aladdin. Isn't it odd that all the heroes and characters we are supposed to root for and relate have american accent and look somewhat more "white", while the villain looks like a stereotypical portray of Arabic man? And how the bystanders on the rest of the city also tend to looking and even sounding more stereotypical? Sure, its an old movie, but I think you get my point: Aladdin main focus isnt the perpetuation of anti muslin propaganda, yet a movie so well thought ended up perpetuating those ideas.

[@GoErikTheRed]

Imagine a CoD duty game where there are always civilians running around, or I guess in most cases hiding behind some cover, and you lose points for killing them. Not only would it be much more of "shoot the guys with the guns" but it would also really affect the pace of the game. Just a thought.

[@user-ft3jq5vi2l]

Or worse: you don't lose points for killing them. BUT they cry, and yell for help and all that jazz. Way darker and kinda more realistic.

[@stormshadow2944]

They’re aren’t any civilians, just unarmed potential enemy combatants

[@peterdenov4898]

@@stormshadow2944 you are right..... *Reloads LMG at airport*

[@aidenp6001]

You do know MW2019 is a thing, right?

[@mariustan9275]

@@stormshadow2944 But still shooting unarmed combatants is a warcrime, and the game should reward you simply arresting them.

[@vp21ct]

There's a reason I tend to go for Sci Fi games. And it's not just that they often establish a far more removed subject matter, so that we no longer are looking at a conflict which brings us closer to real life. It's because, since their using a subject matter none of us really have a good look at, or understand yet, they have to EXPLAIN who the bad guys and who the good guys are. Take Halo, for example. Sure, headshotting the poor grunts is amusing, but it's also something of a sad task, sometimes, because it's been explained to us through the lore that they're really just, well, grunts.

[@chrisporter8391]

*sweats nervously* "P-please don't look this up guys."

[@biglion3179]

*hm?*

[@gaussianvector2093]

This is a complete contradiction to your "politics in games" video, you might want to rethink that one. Unless your message was really "you can't keep MY politics out of games, but let's ban others"

[@PossessedPotatoBird]

Bro... Are you good mentally?

[@tesla_autopilot]

Minecraft is pretty neutral, besides for the fact that killing animals, environmental destruction, and industrialized agriculture is acceptable and necessary in order to achieve success.

[@suneenough]

+Hacked By ExESec Octavian and $w00re None of the things you just pointed out are "necessary in order to achieve success". Industrialized agriculture? Seriously? It's not even industrial! You plant a seed, wait, and harvest the crops for personal use only. Besides, Minecraft is an open sandbox. You can do whatever you want inside the limitations! Kill animals if you want to, you don't have to do it... Edit: There are no win/success conditions in Minecraft. DEAL WITH IT.

[@tesla_autopilot]

I know.

[@tesla_autopilot]

Unless you're the stereotypical American, it really isn't *that* necessary.

[@Petigp]

Let me introduce you the second highest rated game on Steam: Factorio. Destroy the enviroment by cutting trees, mining ores, smelting, pumping oil and crafting to win the game. Kill the native aliens those don't like your pollution and destroy thier homes. 10/10 would play again. :D

[@vengefulspirit99]

Industrial style agriculture is the only way we could have the luxuries we have today.

[@FlatlandsSurvivor]

The fact that Spec Ops: the line is considered by many to be revolutionary for asking the moral questions of the why of first person shooters shows just how willing we are to not question the morality. It took this long for someone to make an actual full game that points out how absurd this stuff is?

[@KnakuanaRka]

I’ve heard that game get a lot of knocks for its failure to give the player character agency. During moments like the infamous White Phosphorus scene, there clearly should be (out-of-universe) a way for your main character to avoid whatever’s going to happen, but the game spawns endless troops or otherwise refuses to advance events until you do what the game wants, and then your character gets yelled at for doing something that they were not given a choice to avoid and were railroaded into doing despite there being no reason whatsoever why they couldn’t except that the game refused to advance the story in that direction. I recall reading somewhere that when the creator was asked how to avoid these tragedies, his answer? Walk away. Stop playing the game. ARE YOU FNAGGING ME?!! The whole point of a game is to be played the whole point of interactivity is to give you the power to affect how things go! I want for *my character* to be able to walk away, to be able to use his agency and conscience to change the story. Railroading us in this out-of-universe manner without the slightest bit of in-story justification completely misses the point of giving us an interactive story!

[@cole4783]

​@@KnakuanaRka Idk, i disagree that walking away was the wrong way for us to answer but i can see your argument.

[@EmperorZephyr]

3:38 THIS is the purpose of Spec Ops: The Line...

[@kevineleven5610]

War posters used to say things like the gentleman's club and depicted a scene like playing polo whilst camping. This was an actual recruitment process by many countries .

[@MisterTutor2010]

LOTR video games are propaganda that tells us that killing orcs is ok :)

[@jmanzx5508]

+MisterTutor2010 Game of the year 2016: OOG - Orcs Occupied Government!

[@sandromnator]

Orc lives matter.

[@gingerqueer22]

Y'know, if you think about it LotR is actually kinda racist. "Men of the West, ride against the East" and all that.

[@helloworld2848]

+Rangaman I think the books may have been designed to be racist, because if you read Akkalabëth, the men of the west are "settling" the "unsettled" lands in the east and destroying native populations.

[@gingerqueer22]

Hello World Views of that time, I guess.

[@RazerBlaze1]

CoughPokemonBlackandBlueCough

[@Awalys]

+RazerBlaze *cough* Any game PETA has ever made *cough*

[@mr.hankeythexmaspooteamhea6136]

+Hina Face *cough* anything PETA has ever made *cough* *cough* & also halo 5's marketing *cough*

[@exodore2000]

+RazerBlaze Most recent Bioware games and Gone Home.

[@cutecommie]

Well PETA's game was intended as counter-propaganda against Pokémon's propaganda, which is "It's okay to own animals and let them fight each other". You can't just call the opinion you dislike propaganda.

[@georgeofakind1710]

共産ロリ considering the villains in pokemon are often the animal abusers and playing with your pokemon is encouraged i really dont see how you think it’s pro animal mistreatment.

[@imnotpickle95chevroblyat83]

Zog's horror's cover looks like an ironic meme.

[@Athrun000]

Peta's Pokemon game came to mind immediately

[@UrpleSquirrel]

"Crustacean" refers to shellfish. I think you meant "cetacean".

[@moldingthegalaxy]

Please, PLEASE for the love of god do an episode on PETA's bullshit.

[@hcn6708]

Zog means "he pooped" in my dialect.

[@hcn6708]

Which is true,since this game is shit.

[@CeriTsujimura]

King *Zog* Yea he exists

[@dafiltafish]

This is why we absolutely need games and other media that make us question the position we take up. It makes us think for half a second that "wait, I wasn't doing the complete right thing?!?!"

[@insertgoodchannelnamehere]

"Think about how many shooters today use muslims as the default enemy" I really can't think of any, even in 2018. Most FPS games either go for Russians or Germans/Nazis. The CS games put the T's (which are often not muslim) and the CT's on equal footing. Same thing with Battlefield 2, Insurgency, etc.

[@trustworthytim4762]

Most American FPS in the last few years could be considered propaganda games. They involve US soldiers fighting our current enemies abroad and being a conquering hero, without the truth behind the warfare. They skirt around the issue that you most likely won't come home, and the people you're fighting have homes and families just like you. They're human and just as scared as you most likely are, not James Bond villains trying to destroy America. These games are selling the military as heroes, glossing over the inevitable PTSD, possible injury, and almost guaranteed broken home life when you leave the field. War isn't fun, a lesson games like Call of Duty sorely miss and try to delete from your mind. While not technically propaganda, I can definitely see impressionable youths getting the wrong idea about warfare from it.

[@GhostCryProductions]

After viewing the video and skimming the comments, I think the best answer is that there is no right answer. Any argument about the validity of a pov or idea is at best questionable because of human tendency to agree with what we favor albeit for the wrong reasons. You could turn any controversial topic into a mad lib of proper nouns and no matter what you fill in the blanks there will people for or against it. There is a trope that goes: "your terrorists are our freedom fighters"--an argument of perspectives. To really understand an issue and resolve it requires an unbiased, objective mindset; something which I think is hard to come by, but like I said there is no right answer.

[@SomeRedDame]

Totally off topic for the severity of this subject, but man I appreciate you guys and your ending credits music selection. Y'all have introduced me to so many awesome new artists and mixes I'd never have found on my own.

[@unifieddynasty]

Say what you want about America's Army's propaganda, but it was actually a pretty fun game. I used to love playing the co-op mode since the mechanics felt so realistic. There was no rambo, pay2win bullshit; just you and your team of fellow players.

[@everburningblue]

+unifieddynasty I was a broke highschooler. I played it and enjoyed it. I joined the Army. I got blowed up. Don't regret a fuckin thing. I didn't join because of the game, I joined because being a young adult in America is fucking soul draining. Was it propaganda? Yeah. Did it influence my decision? Nah. If the soldiers depicted were soulless, racist, humpnuggets, maybe. But they weren't. I'm agreeing with you btw.

[@bronwynbeistle8317]

+Daniel Smith Most people I know join b/c, well, they can't get a job anywhere else. Don't mean to minimize the fact that other people join for other reasons.

[@dillontanks]

+Bronwyn Beistle i joined because i wanted to help take iraqs oil, now were riding under 2$ a gallon

[@everburningblue]

^This guy gets it

[@unifieddynasty]

Barry Slurpentine Arma 2 and Day Z. Great stuff.

[@PonzooonTheGreat]

The only modern war game that I liked was Spec Ops The Line

[@RichardDangles]

You must be super edgy and intelligent.

[@PonzooonTheGreat]

Wat?

[@joshsny143]

PonzooonTheGreat Most people don't want to think when they shoot so when you said Spec Ops The Line as a good game Richard Dangles has a need to put you down. This Dangles kid is really about the new Medal of Honor games (not allied assault or the good ones) that take places in the middle east and Spec Ops makes fun of those games so you can see why he is upset.

[@MrLukasboys]

joshsny143 So you are saying Medal of Honor was good when you still shot germans? Just kidding he just gave a funny comment and nothing else, I do not think he wants to put him down.

[@MrLukasboys]

joshsny143 It is just the Bullshit about being anti muslim if you kill a Terrorist in MW2, you just want to have fun and if it borrows from modern military conflict then blame america for not invading europe and killing germans again.

[@Emsstar]

I am I Muslim. I am black. I am I girl. I wear what I want. I do what I want. I would never ever hurt anyone Muslim or not. There are hundreds millions like me. But the few monsters who have hijacked my religion are louder than me. I have read the Quran twice. I hope someday everyone will be able to tell me apart from the monsters who use my religion as an excuse to be cruel

[@helenanilsson5666]

Emmanuel, that's why Europe is getting so many immigrants from those areas, together with people from areas where there's outright war. The people who endorse terrorism and strive to diminish human rights ARE a minority in Islam, but Islam is a freaking huge religion which is why even the minority looks enormous - especially when that violent minority is overrepresented among the people with power and guns which makes them much louder and more noticeable than normal people.

[@XristosArgyropoulos]

USA funded the creation of Al Queda and recreated ISIS to mess with your religion and culture, its clearly not your fault but your culture looks uncivilised to Europian people therefore making propaganda easier Do something that proves them wrong and BOOM things will turn against them easily

[@hungothanh4913]

isis is the most devoted muslim of all, who follow wholeheartedly Quran. If you are muslim, it is natural that you secretly admire them, I know. Cut off your bullshit plz.

[@HereTakeAFlower]

Hope you'll find lots of people who will look at the content of your character instead of the cardboard cutout version of your religion pop culture displays.

[@midnightwolfwarrior]

Daniel, please, PLEASE continue your work. The topics you cover and explore are extremely important to the thing we all love. I love your work, and I spread it as often as possible, to broaden the minds of the less intelligent and less open minded. You are a superstar.

[@AskTorin]

You guys at extra credit really deserves extra credit!! You manage to intertwine gaming, critical thinking, perspective and relativity in a fun and engaging way. And that's really saying something from someone who usually can't stand squeaky voices! :)

[@monkofdarktimes]

If only they can see themselves now

[@shadowmaydawn]

Yeah they would be pretty happy with themselves.

[@kingkongz84]

6:05 those are Sikhs, not Muslims.

[@gabrielgarcia7554]

Their point was that the games incentivised you to “kill anyone with a turban on their head”, I think that’s the point of why they put Sikhs in there, to show how ridiculous this would be in practice.

[@ZaItan1]

In the end you can never fully de-politicize any kind of media, including games. Creators necessarily bring in their cultural background and personal biases. We need to stop assuming we're immune to our own biases and instead be explicit about who our intended audience is and what our views are.

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

You can depoliticize games, you can depoliticize any media, but it's extremely difficult and bound up with what you do and don't accept as true a-priori.

[@youknowit789]

These videos are incredibly well thought out and interesting. Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@MiniBeas]

This is why I really found Spec Ops The Line, because it really talked about this subject lot.

[@Frostuin]

6:37 Urban Chaos... Thanks for THE FEELS.

[@TheChromaKid]

Just wanted to say I started watching your channel today and I really like it :D Subbed straight away, Although I'd like to see more stuff like the series you did about good&bad game design.

[@Dafoodmaster]

You have some great video's man, i just watched the game compulsion ones and this one. Subscribed.

[@JoniWan77]

7:37 This reminds me of the high cut armor of Persona 3. You receive this armor very early in the game, it is gender bound, and a whole lot better than any other armor you can get in that state of the game. And, oh boy, is it sexualized to ridicilous lengths. However, due to it being a really ridiculous change (especially since pretty much every other armor of the game, does not change the character model), I think, it actually makes you sensitive. When you give this piece of armor to your female team mates, they will make you feel bad for showing it to them. This way, you could still argue, whether this is simply trying to excuse sexualization, but it at least does not normalize it in any way.

[@REgamesplayer]

Propoganda is any information which do not considers other point of view and thus, many games are propoganda games without us even realising it. It's a content of a game which disturbs us, not a fact that game can be defined as propoganda game. Even though, that word long lost its meaning and today it's more used as a scarecrow than anything else.

[@willhuey4891]

that pic towards the end was from in the mouth of madness which is a really underrated 90s movie.

[@onura2710]

Best episode in extra credits. Give me a lot to think.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Amazing what 7 years can do to someone.

[@infantjones]

They're making the same general point in this video as the July 3rd video lol, so I don't see what 7 years has actually done.

[@wolfydawolf1296]

7:25 the reason I always play as a guy in any and every game even though I'm a girl

[@FlySwann]

What's interesting is AA has a big following in central and Eastern Europe. I used to play it allot when I was enlisted in the US army. Since the first AA released after I enlisted. But most of the people I played with were polish or German.

[@JonborgVA]

What has happened to your channel

[@Melly-Mang]

Simple, not his channel anymore

[@battlesevengames9479]

An absolutely amazing level of improvement

[@LazloRTR]

Yep, the Floyd's gone years ago

[@enbyfrogz6766]

holy crap how did i stumble upon something from 8 years ago?! ah well greetings from 2020

[@ThudMan67]

Great video. I'm fresh out of high school, and I feel that Battlefield and Call of Duty are propaganda. I know a lot of people who have joined the military recently. Oddly enough, almost all of them are hardcore Battlefield 3 or Call of Duty fans. It scares me, they're great people, but not strong willed or fit enough for the military. I hate to say negative things behind their backs, but they don't get out much. They don't even exercise or educate themselves on current events! They could have very well signed away their lives over a video game...

[@BiblicalBaboon112]

OMG this old videos are the real gem!

[@Phrv199217]

This did not age well.

[@monkofdarktimes]

Image if they saw the games of today

[@iliketurtles2531]

I think what you talked here is just how prejudice and stereotypes work in general. It's not specific to video games.

[@TheDiamondNet]

That's really the point of the video. Prejudice and stereotypes work this way in general. But we don't necessarily expect them in video games, so it leaves us with our defenses down. And if the video game, has us function within a particular world-view, the average person may not realize that their being subtly indoctrinated into a viewpoint.

[@MsZsc]

Subtly indoctrinated is an oxymoron

[@GamerFromJump]

Think about how many games have the villains residing in "soulless, industrial Mordor" settings. There is a trend of "green = good" running through games. _Sonic_ is kinda blatant about this.

[@testiou]

well green is good... so I don't see where you are going with this.

[@coolhunter3]

the color green isn't a racial group that will get offended. Green is usually associated with vegetation and life.

[@rageracerriley9590]

so is mine but fuck you!

[@Argacyan]

That's actually true. there are, however, games like Minecraft and Anno (2070) which make both sides look "grey" -neither good nor bad-.

[@rageracerriley9590]

Indeed...

[@savageantelope3306]

Still one of the best you’ve made

[@blankblank1949]

EC in 2012 : Actual intellect EC in 2019 : Welp i guess i lost my brain somewhere

[@shadowmaydawn]

Or maybe you are just an idiot.

[@d1oftwins]

@@shadowmaydawn Oh no, you crushed Blank Blank with your galaxy brain intellect and eloquence. How could someone ever recover from that kind of rebuttal. 😒

[@shadowmaydawn]

@@d1oftwins Blank Brain didn't provide any real rebuttal either.

[@d1oftwins]

@@shadowmaydawn Blank was giving the opinion that EC lost its ways of making a neutral argument. You on the other hand are the only one that didn't contribute anything. All you said is "I don't like your opinion" in an blatantly insulting way. Well, cool story bro, I guess?

[@Lycaon1765]

This is essentially the same argument tho. Guess you didn't watch past 5:42.

[@maxscribner1743]

Trying to remove your bias from your art removes the meaningfulness of the art

[@Carzeyday]

How many people looked for Zog's nightmare after this.

[@rifqi-realexperience5179]

I love how the video is 9:11 length

[@jordancunningham4962]

Paraphrasing that last quote for emphasis. "Nobody's perfect, but things get a whole lot worse when we don't try." That's a good quote.

[@isbestlizard]

i LOVE That when i played neverwinter nights and was told to kill kobolds i COULD REFUSE and help them instead! That was so awesome

[@beelover6410]

This did not age well

[@jawprince7720]

dis outro music is absolutely amazing sounds like some type of monument valley types game

[@chrisridge5504]

I had that picture of Abe on the Grizzly as my wallpaper on my computer for my part of my freshman year this year.

[@BrutusAlbion]

As a European I have always been aware of the hidden propaganda inside American produced games. It's not completely biased but there's some obvious american patriotism hidden inside most games. Most americans don't even notice it because they are so patriotic themselves they overlook the whole issue and consider it OK because its their culture and what can possibly be bad about the culture of the #1 country in the world?! Right?! Right... Except for the fact that America is the biggest baddy around...well except for Russia, she's really dogging it to not let america be the #1 bad guy. You guys can thank Russia for that then...

[@tyhendry6687]

You act as if this trend is exclusive to America. Everyone has an agenda, regardless of nationality.

[@BrutusAlbion]

Ty Hendry Way to show your blinding patriotism right off the bat. Don't agree? Just start saying I'm just as evil as you are.... Yeah except my nation never invaded another nation on false pretenses. Or is illegaly arresting and detaining people from all over the world without proper trial and testimony. Oh but wait my country is just as bad right? WRONG! We host the international chamber of justice. If anything BUSH should be trialed in there for war crimes. Open your eyes. America is evil. As evil as rome once was.

[@dunfalach]

BrutusAlbion To be fair, some of your country's former colonies might challenge the idea that you've never invaded anyone. And America has twice come across the ocean to rescue your country from invasion by your European neighbors. European countries have spent many centuries invading both neighbors and distant lands, from before America existed up to the present day. Most countries that have ever existed have invaded someone at some point, whether justifiably or not. It's a human tendency. I'm not contending America has no faults; just pointing out that every country has faults. Most countries also have a good side, and part of America's has been that it's been a leading charitable country in the world. You seem to have a bit of blinding hatred of your own going on if you think of America only as a leading world problem.

[@BrutusAlbion]

dunfalach And if not for the netherlands, there would be no USA. End of story bro. Come on stop going on the guilt trip. I know my country ain't perfect. Far from it. We apologized for our transgressions. You have not.

[@georgemuffin6524]

BrutusAlbion Without the Netherlands... The USA would still exist...

[@ronbouj]

lol Hezbollah has a game xD I've been living in Lebanon my entire life and never heard of this story !

[@fishwerasdf]

This really links back to the new video on the division

[@ZacharyBittner]

and here I thought he was going to talk about games like Gone Home and Depression Quest