‘I met incels in real life’ | Inside the manosphere on the Prospect Podcast

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

Man who is virgin: "I've never been good enough for anyone of the opposite sex. No one has ever found me attractive." Woman who is virgin: "I've decided not to do it yet." or "I'm waiting until I find a man who is good enough for me." Those two are really not comparable.

[@dantescave1]

@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu There are millions of women who are unmarried, dateless… ‘not good enough’… they don’t become militant and plot rape and murder, forced marriage.. millions of people don’t get what they want in life, or live how they want! They don’t rob when they don’t have the money they need, etc. women have always been seen as a resource to be exploited regardless of her personhood. When China thought it may fall tens of millions short of women available as wives- idea was floated by many that women should accept multiple partners! As if this was a good idea or acceptable after aborting millions of girl babies in favor of boys-now girls should also be forced to make up for the errors of men.

[@dantescave1]

@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu Assuming women can have sex anytime is sexist because the assumption is women would want to have sex with any random people without a solid relationship. They don’t.

[@TeslaDroid4342]

​@@dantescave1 that's not the argument here. Work on your reading comprehension and read it again instead of creating a straw man and crying sexism.

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

No one "deserves sex", nor does anyone "owe sex" to other people. But going years, or your entire life without sex, intimacy, a partner, hugs, physical touch, compliments, validation etc. really sucks. You can acknowledge both at the same time. They're not contradictory.

[@anthill1510]

I would be totally with you only ... you can get hugs, compliments, validation and intimacy in the way of sharing emotions and thoughts from friends and family. Even if you would have a partner: Putting this all solely on your partner is not healthy or sustainable, it`s too much for only one person to carry.

[@maxpayne232]

It doesn't just suck. It's deeply debilitating mentally and years of it leads to depression, paranoia and self hatred.

[@DTOLL9000]

@@anthill1510 It's not the same, a sexual relationship is on a completely other level than your relationship with friends and family. I think you're possibly trying to cope with your own inceldom by thinking this way or you just have no empathy for others.

[@skylinefever]

Yes, and it is frustrating that these women act is if these men are "Entitled" because they did as they are told. It's like saying that college grads are "Entitled" when the fresh graduate jobs suck. As if it is their fault that every day in middle and high school, they were told that if they went to college, they'd get the good jobs. Say anything about "You go to college to be a well rounded person" is goalpost shifting or gaslighting.

[@dantescave1]

@@skylinefever I think you misconstrued normal relationship seeking which is great, vs the incels and misogynists that do think they are owed sex. Millions and millions of women as single and sexless all their lives, many because they cannot find a partner as well or can afford to marry.

[@lboston4660]

"the incel movement" is the "dark side of the internet"...? naw sis, incels are light gray at best. you ain't seen shit

[@91722854]

what's the actual dark side? people converting to Siths?

[@Infamous1892]

I love how three women who have no first hand experience in Masculinity are gonna lecture men on what they need to do to be better men... what experience do you all have as men?

[@chelseashamim9148]

Men in the manousphere talk about how women need to be feminine all the time

[@chefnyc]

Maybe they identify as men

[@Anigamiya]

That’s what’s wrong with y’all. Y’all will never listen to a woman’s advice because your fragile ego get hurts soo easily if got educated by a female.

[@travelertuber9487]

They wish for men to be vulnerable in order to utilize them but when trouble comes, they are the ones whom cry for a masculine strong one. Can they fix their own car ? Cool, but 1 or 2 butch ugly grass monkey lesbians do not represent the other 99% of women. Let things keep going as they do, so they'll learn.

[@rjflores438]

Im a decent looking guy, Im 39 years old, and Ive had 2 long term relationships in the past, one lasted 4 years and the other just under a year. However, when those 2 relationships ended, my confidence and self worth around women and how I perceived how they would perceive me was not good, I just went back to the default belief that I am unworthy and ugly, and that I will be rejected for just being me. I feel rejected at my core most of the time around women..

[@chefnyc]

All of them self-declare as 10 and go after Chad. If you are a 7, you have no luck brother!

[@dantescave1]

@@rjflores438 Millions and millions of women feel the same. Why do you think this is only one genders problem?

[@dantescave1]

@@chefnyc what a nasty vicious blaming unscientific prejudice.

[@rjflores438]

​@dantescave1 There are involuntarily celibate women, but there is a difference. You can be a pretty good looking man, whos in shape, whos young and still have long periods of involuntarily celibacy of your confidence is low, or if you have low social status or if ypu dont have the confidence when talking to women. Remember, there isnt much incentive for a woman to approach men when there is a huge disparity in the amount of dating options. Involuntarily celibate women have to be very very physically unnatractive, probably very morbidly obese as men are just way less selective on partners because most men simply do not get to excercise that level of choice.

[@dantescave1]

@ You’re so sexist assuming that women will ever go, or want to go with anybody or anything that shows up at the door, so therefore she isn’t involuntarily celibate! Because some men will have sex with anybody or anything does not mean women want to be the anything or anyone to be used! That is demeaning and worse than being involuntarily celibate! Can you understand the horror of that?

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

"Even before incel became a thing, men who were unsuccesful in finding relationships have been mostly pointed and laughed at, called losers, been told there is something inherently wrong with them. I think that's a big part of why we have an incel movement in the first place. How difficult it is to acknowledge that going your life without any kind of physical or emotional intimacy, probably fucking sucks. Especially considering I have known many people who get antsy when they haven't had sex for a few weeks, but present them with a man who has neve experienced that, and they automatically say he not only isn't good enough, but will also actively treat him like shit. What the fuck did they think was going to happen. It's like society is a prick who's constantly kicking a dog and then acts all shocked when it snaps at them." A comment I read a while back.

[@kurtacus3581]

As someone in their late 20's that hasn't really had any sexual or romantic relationships i can tell you for a fact it is entirely a mental prison of their own making. And im not asexual or aromantic, i definitely want those things for my life. But any anguish they feel is self inflicted. The problem is that they obsess over sex and blame others for their own failings in life. When i was a teenager and briefly into my early 20's i was dipping my toes into a trail that could have lead to an incel mindset, but the thing is I grew up and matured and focused on myself instead of focusing and obsessing over getting sex or a partner. And thats the problem, they dont want to self reflect or work on themselves. They feel entitled to something and are throwing a childish tantrum because they cant get it. I cant really show empathy toward people who refuse to get help and blame others for it. Its not society kicking a dog and getting angry when it bites. Its a dog biting anyone who passes by because the person decided to walk past it instead of petting it, and then the dog blames people for not petting it.

[@painunending4610]

​​@@kurtacus3581 flagrantly incorrect sorry. Feelings don't form in a vacuum. These men weren't born with these insecurities, these insecurities were bred into them It is society kicking a dog and getting angry when it bites. That's the perfect analogy to use thank you As a 26 year old virgin I resent you implying that I don't get treated badly for my status. Why would you do that?

[@skylinefever]

@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu I think about Porkys, Revenge Of The Nerds and Beavis And Butthead as being incel before there was a word for it.

[@dantescave1]

@@CarlFredrik-uo1cu As if women don’t fact the same criticisms and social rejection? Society is even harsher to women who can’t or don’t reach acceptable levels of attraction. Add to this the levels of violence against women. Why do men feel angry or sorry for themselves in this situation? It’s common to everyone... People want what they can’t have all the time & have to accept or change what they expect in life. Who gets what they want? Millions live without choices in harsh circumstances they hate.

[@dantescave1]

@@painunending4610 nobody in the greater public knows your status. You can sail into the world without judgment t as nobody is aware of most people’s personal circumstances. So you’re not judged by the vast majority of people. But assuming that women don’t also experience these situations and emotions is bizarre. This is NOT unique to males in society. Why would you assume this? Resenting ‘society’ is fruitless… a philosophy which blames and embitters, resents is a self-inflicted prison.

[@SU_Plata]

Incel here, when am i getting an interview

[@FailedNormie]

interviews are for Chads only

[@villain205]

Never because if you talked you would destroy the mainstream feminist narrative on incels.

[@dsds3968]

@@villain205 they are perfectly happy in their ill informed world.

[@miltonthegreat6520]

Joining a fraternity in university during the 1990s, we met women on Campus who joined us at parties and events throughout the year. Without knowing it at the time, we young men were being cultured to know what it is to hangout with women, to conduct ourselves well, in a mixed company with other guys (your brothers) joining you. Upon reflection, I feel sorry for young men who haven't made such friendships by their 30s and 40s. That said, we can all still grow and change, that possibility never ends.

[@anthill1510]

I guess the moderator has a resting-smiling face, but seeing her with this naive smile the whole time while talking about women being attacked is unsettling.

[@lbrowning2543]

I feel gaslighted.

[@nicksstuff603]

i find it interesting that the title of this video leads one to believe this discussion is about incels and all the complexities of this problem. Many of these men rank high on the autism scale. But the focus is actually on violence against women even though they admit, incels actually commit few acts of violence against women. Anti-feminist fact: Men are 79% of murder victims globally. Misogyny is also repeated maybe a hundred times throughout this video and feminist writer, Laura Bates (author of "Men who hate women") is also paid tribute to. So it did not take long for me to realize this is really just another feminist promotional video. Thankfully only about 20% of women in the U.K. and the U.S. identify as feminists. Most women realize misogyny is not as rampant as feminist's would like us to believe and alternatively, misandry has become increasingly rampant. Thanks largely in part, to feminism.

[@Cynthia-Landers]

I disagree that misandry is increasing, and it is _not_ "rampant." Rather, women are advancing, as well we should, closer to equality and fair treatment, and because men have such a zero-sum view(which is the WRONG view), they see women's advancement closer to equality as taking something _away_ from men. And that is totally a delusional view.

[@nicksstuff603]

@@Cynthia-Landers Denying misandry is rampant, is misandry in and of itself. CNN, the BBC and in Canada, the CBC all completely ignored the evidence against Amber Heard and just focused on what little evidence there was against Johnny Depp. They were furious over the juries verdict. BELIEVE ALL WOMEN is just one recent example. TV news reports on men getting killed on the job NEVER identify the victims as men. They are referred to by their occupation (miners, for example) or more often than not ... bodies. Women and children on the other hand are always identified as victims. Family courts have been hostile to fathers for decades and men continue to do more prison time than women for the exact same crime. Hollywood in the last ten years or so has been increasingly feminizing men and making women more masculine ... and unattractive ... "She Hulk" Most men are intelligent enough to not oppose women making gains. And are also intelligent enough to know that feminists want equal outcome which is nothing like equality. Women account for about 16% of the military but only account for 2% of the fatalities. So much for real equality.

[@Bonibello]

@@Cynthia-Landers Women have already gone past equality. Men are falling more and more behind. It's not that women are taking things away from men, it's more about how feminism pretends to aim for equality and benefit both men and women. In reality, it's just disingenuous virtue-signaling - just like women, feminism doesn't give a damn about men. Not that they should anyway, in this world it's everyone for themselves, I guess.

[@lbrowning2543]

Read Bates’ book about violence perpetrated by them. You’re misinformed. You can’t meet with 3 people and conclude “they’re nice, not violent.”

[@juventinocasillas3023]

Can you list the all these supposed violent incels, that these women supposedly refuse to name.?

[@lbrowning2543]

@@juventinocasillas3023 Yes, here is a list of incidents where they attacked and killed only women.Initially a benign group of both men and women for support for celibacy, the Incel movement is now certified as an international terrorist organization specializing in hating women. For specific names, read Bates' book "Men Who Hate Women." or look it up online. 1984 Cleveland Public Library shooting 1989 École Polytechnique massacre 1991 Luby's shooting 2009 Collier Township shooting 2014 Isla Vista killings 2014-2015 Portsmouth knife attacks 2015 Umpqua Community College shooting 2018 Toronto van attack 2018 systematic shooting of female drivers in Texas 2018 Tallahassee shooting 2020 Toronto machete attack 2020 Glendale Westgate Entertainment District shooting

[@pyroman2918]

It depends on who you define as an "incel", but there is a signicant amount of young men that are lonely and can't get into a romantic relationship, about a third of them or so. So statistically, those that are actually violent have to be a very small minorty of that, otherwise we would be living in a warzone, with millions of armed young men rampaging on the streets. If you only categorize the members of these radicalized online communities as incels, than sure, it will be a higher percentage, but most lonely men are not in those. Unfortuantelly everyone lonely and socially awkward tends to get slapped with the incel label.

[@lbrowning2543]

@@pyroman2918 no, they don’t

[@TwiggySquidz]

If you do 100 job interviews and don't get one is it 100 other people's fault? We are the common denominator and the world isn't fair. Peace be with you my ugly brethren.

[@CarlosIowa]

OMG. Who are the women who are suppose to fight through those views and do that? Their Mommies!

[@Infamous1892]

Well we have women like you the benefit of the doubt in thinking you wouldn't attack us. We were very wrong about you.

[@bensanderson7144]

Interesting angle. How does the loneliness, alienation and pain that men experience … affect women? I thought this program would investigate men, and it does, but women are the center. Interesting.

[@missano3856]

Of course they are.

[@Jamhael1]

@@missano3856 then where is the subject being talked?

[@AnthonyKellett]

This seemed to me to be superficial, lacking any empathy, or nuance. You do know that "incel" is derived from "involuntarily celibate", don't you? 'Involuntarily"... Not "by choice". This discussion turned into, "how can we train these men, in order to benefit women". Completely oblivious. Polygamous societies typically descend into chaos, due to numerous young males being deprived of partners, by a small number of men having multiple ones. The majority of available women seek to join those 'harems', to the exclusion of the majority of young, less powerful men. I see much the same situation developing in the western world, today, albeit manifesting in a different form. The result, however, will be the same. Chaos.

[@chefnyc]

Yeah, what they used to call harems, we now call “situationship with Chad”. And when they hit the wall, they start looking for a provider.

[@dantescave1]

@@AnthonyKellett ridiculous…the word incel is rife with self pity and arrogance! Does anybody remember the word old maid? Did ‘old maids’ decide to form groups to make demands of men and abuse them for not having what they wanted from men? The very idea is bizarre. It’s a defective concept to blame others for not getting what you want. Nobody can demand wealth, brilliance, love, sex, etc…

[@AnthonyKellett]

@dantescave1 - You missed my point. Yes, those men need to do better, if they wish to improve their situation. However... First, "old maids" didn't have the Internet, to provide a platform. Now they do, there are plenty of single women whinging about men, in countless forms. How haven't you noticed this? Second, no one would've cared about the "old maids" moaning, even if they had done so. Similarly, as demonstrated by the video and your reply, no one cares about the men that moan, either. However, the difference is, as I pointed out, when large numbers of disengaged/disenfranchised men are present, in a particular society, they typically cause havoc. Ignoring "old maids" has no similar possibility of societal collapse. The reality is that 80% of young women are chasing a perceived 5-10% (depending on the research) of men. Most of those men are having a great time... thank you feminism! Most of the rest are in a relationship desert. With western women exceeding men's earnings, particularly in urban areas, their traditional practice of dating across and up, on the socio-economic scale, is yielding fewer and fewer options. As a result, and whether they know it or not, women are frequently sharing men, who have little incentive to make commitments. This is bad for everyone; men and women. Your perception isn't ridiculous, as it seems commonplace; it's just oblivious to the probable consequences. You, like many others, treat it as someone else's problem. It is not. It is likely to become everyone's problem, at least in the west.

[@dantescave1]

@ You’re wrong about no considering the greater societal impact. It’s just that whenever there seems to be a ‘problem’ men first think of a way to use or exploit women to solve it. It was suggested seriously 5 years ago that women ought to be happy to have several ‘husbands’ to solve the anticipated shortfall of female marriage partners for an estimated 26 million men in China created by aborting female babies in preference for male babies. My God! What a monstrous idea. Nobody ever died from lack of sex. People don’t always get what they want. If people don’t believe they will have a happy or good life without it and no way to change this, they must find other solutions instead of forcing others to solve their problems. Or they can decide they no longer want to live instead of forcing others to live bizarre lives.

[@dsds3968]

@@dantescave1 "the word incel is rife with self pity and arrogance! " No, it's a simple definition. The majority of incels don't belong to any online communities.

[@daxasd3270]

The loss of functional, accepted, and useful positive norms as to negative norms is absolutely a big reason why we are where we are.

[@hedgefundphil]

the university down the street from me has a women's business center. Amazon has preferential treatment for women owned businesses. the school I attended has special scholarships for women. women are eligible for no bid contracts that men are not eligible for at both the state and county level. google has a women's startup accelerator but men are forbidden from organizing in the same fashion. women can join the police, the military or firefighting with lowered standards. women in the aggregate are net tax recipients, men are net tax payers. men are forced to serve in the selective service in order to vote, but women are exempt from the draft. there are a lot more men than women who are homeless but there is no effort to equalize that. the average man pays anywhere between 25 to 65 percent of his income to pay for social entitlements, which is more than serfs were made to pay during feudalism. Social security and medicare are insanely bad investments for men both because men pay more in taxes and don't live as long. women complain about the pay gap but fail to note that men are much more likely to be injured on the job.

[@dsds3968]

Incels and the manosphere are separate concepts. Incels are numerous but you only want to talk about the extreme incels.

[@applebutter4036]

I'm bothered by the term "incel". The first step is to reject that term. It's a classic form of toxic masculinity to demean a person for their lack of sexual conquests. Sadly, it's really hard to escape these toxic norms. We love the ultra violent strong man that goes out and exacts the most violent revenge imaginable in games, movies, tv shows, books, comics, ect. We love the good looking Bond characters that kill the bad guys and bang the hot chicks. We just can't get away from that crap. We've got millions of young men sitting alone in their parents house, nobody really likes them. Nobody really cares about them. They have no real friends. They have no prospects for romance or any kind of sexual relationship. They often are in a power struggle with their parents who are trying to get them to grow up and take initiative in their lives(probably in many ways because they want them out of their house). They see countless examples of the sexless loser being laughed at and made fun of. They taste that raw, bitter taste of rejection every time they see an example of themselves portrayed in the media. They know they aren't welcome anywhere. They know people look down on them. That pain gnaws away at their insides until they start trying to find an outlet. That's when they start turning towards the Tate's of the world. The normy world didn't provide any answers, so Tate it is.

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

Women get slutshamed. Men get virginshamed. Both are really toxic and unnecessary.

[@Jamhael1]

@@applebutter4036 first: stop the censorship of terminology - it is pointless anyway. Second: stop kicking the street dog;

[@purple_oak]

Honestly, the ultra violent strong man character in our media is perpetrated by men, not women. I'm horrified at the actions of these male protagonists in a lot of shows geared towards a male audience. At the end of the day, they (incel types) are really trying to live up to the expectations of OTHER men to be respected in the social hierarchy or whatever. But women don't actually care about that stuff. They want a guy who respects them and isn't obsessed about the opinions of other men. It's really more about men competing with each other.

[@CarlFredrik-uo1cu]

Women experience slutshaming. Men experience virginshaming. But are really toxic, idiotic and unnecessary.

[@skylinefever]

Ultraviolence in media? Sounds like the "Mortal Kombat causes decapitations" non-argument.

[@louisburke8927]

Emily's voice is lovely. The vocal fry off the other two tho....

[@SU_Plata]

I alresdy commented on Emily's article, i went AWOL from my unit

[@maxpayne232]

In europe women commit just as much intimate partner violence as men do. And it gets completely ignored. It's never discussed. Almost like it just doesn't matter.

[@Distortion0]

I'm interested in doing this. Where the hell do you meet incels now? Looks like the band r/ incel a long time ago.

[@SU_Plata]

@@Distortion0 we're mostly organizing now on telegram and preparing for the draft to resist it

[@j.d.s.8132]

There isn't really any central platform where all in/cels meet. People seem to have this view that we are a tightly knit community, but actually we're just people from all walks of life who found their romantic and or social lifes non-existent, tried to improve and encountered nothing but rejection. The only actual binding commonality is that we all acknowledge that our social failiure is due to being unattractive and thus romantically undesirable. The common depiction of us in media has again and again been statistically disproven, we are more left leaning than right leaning, we are not "all just white lonely men", that notion does 50% of our community a disservice, and most of the supposed in/cel linked violence is an attempt by defendants to get a lighter sentencing.

[@skylinefever]

@@j.d.s.8132 I always knew the white part to be an absolute myth because I knew the mainland Chinese gendercide would cause all kinds of singledom.

[@SuperHawk0413]

@@j.d.s.8132 there is. not an incel but they meet on certain forums that can be found with google

[@Mau365PP]

Video starts at 03:50 yeezz.... No wonder you get dislikes, 4 min of an irrelevant topic 😂

[@jaex9617]

@RustyShackleford-s2o As an incel yourself, perhaps you can help us all understand the phenomenon a bit better?

[@oremfrien]

I’m not an incel but I can play the part to the extent helpful. I would like to draw your attention to how the dating world has fundamentally changed since the 1950s. In the 1950s, a woman had relatively few options if she wanted to get married. Perhaps she met a man who was a cousin, friend of the family, or enjoyed social activities in her area. This low number of choices limited a woman’s ability to be choosy about her potential romantic partners. Further, since a woman could not earn enough to live alone, she could not feasibly reject marriage. This meant that most men were married because most women chose them. Now note how dating is in the digital age. Women have access to an incredible variety of men from a significantly larger radius. While they may have wanted a “6’ 5”, blue eyes, trust fund man” to quote the viral song in the 1950s, most women could not find such a person. With apps filled with tens of thousands of men, they can find to 5% of men who may qualify. Also, since women can earn their own wages and live alone, the number of women in the dating pool decreases because some will naturally opt out of relationships if they don’t monetarily need them. So fewer women are funneling their attentions to men who are deemed more-or-less universally attractive and wealthy. In such a scenario, what are the bottom 80% of men supposed to do -- especially the bottom 50% of men? How are these men supposed to find women when physical dating has almost disappeared and women literally filter them out on dating apps. There is simply no way, regardless of their personalities that can ever achieve the dream of a family or the more immediate urges in their pants.

[@rjflores438]

​@oremfrien Most men who are involuntarily celibate are not violent, and many men are involuntarily celibate for large periods of time, but not for their entire lives. Im a decent looking guy, 6ft, about 75kg and pretty lean, I have decent fashion sense and I would say Im pretty articulate. Im no Brad Pitt but Im not an ugly ogre with warts either, but since my last breakup 3 years ago, my dating life has been virtually non existent. and this has made me feel like I am the ugly ogre with warts. It took me a good 3 years before I met my ex girlfriend to get my confidence tona point where I felt worthy of women, and felt somewhat worthy of love and connection. After my last relationship, where O constantly felt I was put down and not good enough, Ive defaulted back to my own negative subconscious beliefs. Dating has definately got harder for your average guy, and without early success with women, you can end up feeling like an imposter just for talking to them and trying to forge a romantic connection. Ive never seen women seem as distant and disinterested as this in my life and Im probably objectively more attractive now than 5-10 years ago. After covid women seem way more distant. I dont think any woman on this panel could emotionally and psychologically cope with the loneliness alot of guys go through. To never ever be approached and shown interest and have to talk to hundreds of women to even get a date, you have to desensitize yourself to rejection to a point where you have to put in hours upon hours per year into approaching and talking to women to get rid of that imposter syndrome. Thats what I had to do anyway.

[@oremfrien]

@@rjflores438 I appreciate you giving color to my more academic presentation of the situation. In particular, you represented well the feelings of loneliness, inadequacy, and irrelevance that an incel has. As a personal recommendation, what I would recommend is that you do social activities that feature people from both genders that you enjoy -- maybe hiking or Meetups or restaurant trips -- and just start talking to women as friends. In many cases, the arbitrary filters that women use on dating apps just fall away when you meet such a person in real life.

[@davidhutchinson5233]

I've never understood the incel movement. I'm a 57 yo white male and I had my fair shake when I was younger. Treated women with respect, assume nothing, just be fun and be confident....And never try to figure women out. lol. But as I'm older now....there have been spells in my later life where I didn't have a partner. But it NEVER occurred to me to be violent. I have never understood it. My message to young men today is, get outside of your head. Hit the gym, buy some clothes and you'll see some changes. And be confident...but don't be an ass.

[@scooble]

Yeah....they should simply be confident. It's so simple in fact, that there must be something wrong with them if they can't* (*Sarcasm)

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@scooble It's not bad advice, they just need self worth

[@juventinocasillas3023]

The vast majority of incels dont resort to violence. In fact nearly all dont. The only one I can think of that was violent was Elliot Roger and that was about 10 years ago. Most incels just dare to have *gasp* negative opinions about feminsim. Bad faithed people try to portray them as violent because they want to make us think that its wrong to be against feminism. If we are against feminsim, we must be violent or have violent intentions. 🙄

[@oremfrien]

@davidhutchinson5233 -- The piece that you're missing is that you had success with women. Such success was intermittent but extant. And this means that you know that there is nothing seriously wrong with your approach, your physicality, your interests, your behaviors, or the with women. You have the experience to know that any relationship is a gamble. Incels have a 0.000 batting average. They have no idea where the problem is and it's hard to be confident when you don't know what the problem is. And then, someone on the Internet tells you what the problem is: "The game is rigged and women only pursue men who don't have your physicality and have money you could never dream of." Let's ignore that the median income for a married man at the time of marriage is within reach of most men; that requires complex statistical analysis. And the idea that there is a systemic problem as opposed to a personally-rectifiable failure is very attractive.

[@lbrowning2543]

They are a terrorist organization like the Taliban. They have been brainwashed by agents and handlers, egged on to violence.

[@anthill1510]

Their problem isn`t women, not even their attitude to women, so changing their mind about these issues is not the way to solve it. Their issue is not having connections to other people, so if they get some friends or more connection to family and people in general they will change their mind automatically because they don`t need this online community any more and won`t be so angry any more.

[@Jamhael1]

@@anthill1510 and yet, society only kick them down like a street dog. Now, they act surprised when the dog bites back...

[@paulcross1279]

Interview Camille paglia and the development of incel

[@crowdsourcedlife]

Eh, this discussion misses the mark.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

how so?

[@bensanderson7144]

I think - just my opinion - because this discussion puts women at the center, and their feelings about incels. In the end, all we learned is how women feel about incels. Which is fine, but a tad selfish.

[@Jamhael1]

​@@itcouldbelupus2842 it don't talk about incels.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@bensanderson7144 yeah, god forbid women have their own opinions and center themselves, it's not like men talk about women's issues and center themselves every single time, that never happens, men just aren't like that 😂

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

@@Jamhael1 sure it does

[@RustyShackleford-s2o]

I turned this off when the focus of why men are becoming incels switched to how can women prevent men being violent. 😂😂 you just switched the interview to worrying about women. Good luck ladies.

[@firstlast8258]

​@hightide4782🎭

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

Incels are a danger to women, makes sense they would talk about it. Why did you feel the need to let us all know you were triggered?

[@Jamhael1]

​@hightide4782 no - its just pointing the obvious: the title was about a subject, but in the end, it only spoke about a thing completely different.

[@SU_Plata]

@hightide4782 incel here, I abandoned my army unit to help people like rusty

[@SU_Plata]

@@RustyShackleford-s2o my fellow inkwell, how do you do? Are you preparing and lifting for the conflict coming?

[@patricksullivan1827]

I wish we could analyze both genders with the same sincerity and authenticity . And empathy even.... We don't. Feminism and red pill culture are very much alike if we peel the layers back.... We don't do that - always one side of the coin. Deconstruction for thee and not for me. Reflexive for me not thee. Locker room talk ok for me but not for thee.... Or worse its ok for my sisters and brothers to lockerroom talk and get all binary with labels because i know them and empathize with them... And then its ok for me to mislabel and conflate anyone else because of their associations and not put an effort of the concept to deconstruct what and reconstruct : what in the world people are pointing at! 😢 Another problem is we so often conflate anyone who critiques to the lowest form of who they represent... So the pendulum swings and many people continue to feel hurt. 😢