Prototype 7.7mm Arisaka Type 99 Carbine

utreon.com/c/forgottenweapons/
/ forgottenweapons
www.floatplane.com/channel/For...
Cool Forgotten Weapons merch! shop.forgottenweapons.com
The Japanese military made the decision to move from a 6.5mm infantry rifle to a more powerful 7.7mm cartridge in the 1930s, with specifications for the new rifle proposed in 1938. In response, the Nagoya and Kokura Arsenals developed new models of rifle and carbine.
What we are looking at today is one of the Nagoya (Plan #1) experimental carbines; serial number 4 to be specific. It has a variety of novel features, including:
Spring loaded buttplate for recoil reduction
Unique muzzle brake
New aperture rear sight
Threaded cleaning rod
New magazine retention system
Recoil bolt in stock
These carbine, and the other experimental patterns, were tested at the Futsu Proving Ground in 1939. Elements of both designs were ultimately used to create the Type 99 adopted later in 1939 (Japanese calendar year 2599).
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle 36270
Tucson, AZ 85740

[@TheTruth-xp2of]

Hi, Ian. I have a theory as to how a prototype carbine might have ended up being captured on Luzon island in 1945. Paratroopers. The IJA had some paratrooper regiments they shipped out to places like Timor. They fight some battles, get called back to Japan. Tail end of 1944, they get shipped out to the Philippines. By this time they are battered, they've lost their artillery, engineers, planes, they are less regiment more spec ops of sorts, infantry dropped to guerrilla raid and sabotage allied Airbases, destroy planes and such. Half their number get sunk on the way. A few hundred airdrop Leyte, raid some airbases get wiped out. The guys that never made it to Leyte, they get assigned to defend Clark Air Base on Luzon. Shipping out of Japan late 1944 as an incomplete regiment of paratroopers that don't even have their own planes anymore and rely on airforce transport, bet at that pitstop in Japan they didn't get crates of factory new small arms. "Wdym your paratroopers need carbines? Have you seen the state of the factory? Here's what we got in inventory, don't worry, they take standard ammo."

[@macbrown99]

Sounds plausible for sure. At that point in the war, Japanese soldiers of any description would likely be happy to get anything that looked like a proper rifle, prototype or not. A heavily understrength paratrooper regiment sneaking around armories and factories scavenging anything they could before being shipped off to certain death sounds like a fun scene from a movie.

[@Andrewbert109]

Thanks for the input! That's why I love the comments in these videos, as much as Ian knows there's always people in here ready to jump in with even more info

[@TheTruth-xp2of]

@@macbrown99 Yup. In the Palembang offensive 1942, they were using Type99 Rifles. But these were too bulky for paratroopers to drop with, so they were actually dropping their Type99 rifles along with their Type92, Type 99, Type97 big guns as separate airdrops. Basically paratroopers were dropping with handguns, had to regroup and locate their weapon drop before actually fighting. This was a problem. So they develop the Type2 takedown rifle (pretty sure Ian has a video on that one as well) so troopers can drop with their rifles on them. Can't make enough, so they start converting some Type99's into takedowns. Late 1944 I bet they would have taken any short rifle they could get their hands on.

[@jspencer0227]

Yuhhb

[@vincentdracen]

Sounds a lot like the fallschirmjager dropping with weapons separate, one thing that led to such high casualties in Crete

[@eicdesigner]

No need to apologize to us for getting nerdy on the details, Ian. We love geeking out on such details.

[@industrialvectors]

At this point Ian has become the expert to whom every collector wants to show their extremely rare or significant firearms. I am most pleased with it since Ian does a wonderful service in documenting them.

[@HistoricalWeapons]

of course theres a bayonet lug

[@literal_f22]

hmm yes, suicide

[@ToastytheG]

Who would carry a dishonourable weapon with no bayonet lug?!?!?!?!

[@HistoricalWeapons]

@@ToastytheG you need bayonet lug on bayonet lug

[@jojomarujo8704]

It's nice to see a rifle from interwar years that fits the frame.

[@GiantArapaima74]

That is a beautiful muzzle brake

[@davesnothereman699]

My grandfather gave me one of these (not the prototype) but the 7.7mm Arisaka when I was 11 years old, it still had the Emporers markings which is a flower on the top of the barrel and they are not defaced as you explained is supposed to be done when it is exported. Its a beautiful gun and I still have it to this day! Im so glad to learn about it, I had to learn how to make my own ammo of course out of 8mm which was alot of fun! Thanks again!

[@knightofastora1324]

Crazy journey that gun has had. It was cool to see the original paperwork too.

[@hypervious8878]

Indeed! I can't believe the family didn't spare one second to wonder how unique and storied a museum piece they might possess.

[@J.B.1982]

Ian’s work is priceless. Thank you. What a gun, with all that documentation too.

[@wilhelm2462]

I would love to see far more japanese and italian weapons tbh. Like everyone always talks about our fancy things but people often ignore or even say that the weapons from italy and japan where bad which is nonesense imo. Spain also has interesting weapons such as the astra pistols we used aswell or smaller/less known countries like poland, france and denmark also have extremely cool things. Excellent video like always, danke!

[@patriotenfield3276]

Spain also had a GPMG , The ALFA M44 chambered in usual 7.92*57mm and then a M55 Variant , which was chambered in 7.62*51mm NATO. M44 variant saw service in the Egyptian army in both the Suez crisis and the Six day war.

[@JosephDawson1986]

Well during WWII many Italian and Japanese weapons were rife with quality control issues, maintenance issues or were just not very well designed. As the war progressed they never got better.

[@vincentlamb3436]

@@JosephDawson1986 Backwards, quality control was bad in the late war. Pre-war and pre-1943 Arisakas are fine weapons.

[@JosephDawson1986]

That's a typo it was supposed to say they never got better. By the time we, the US, entered into the South Pacific , Japan had already started producing quantity over quality.

[@tipi5586]

@@JosephDawson1986 Well, the war started in 37 so you're only slightly self obsessed.

[@merz641]

Dear Ian, what a day ... my books "Pistols of the Warlords" arrived today!! So happy with them. I have (only) 3 in my collection of c96s. The wonderful book has re-affirmed my (OCD) passion for this, and I congradulate you in this magnificent endeavor. Many thanks for this great work. Yours Dominic.

[@aintnobitchms]

always count on this channel for vary rare historical information. youre the best!!!!!

[@johndoppleguard]

Yes, yes they are!

[@Hawk1966]

Only surviving example. . . There's the Fireplace. That man's collection never fails to impress.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

I didn't even notice the fireplace until you pointed it out. That unusual muzzle device held my attention through the entire video.

[@brokenglass9814]

What does the fireplace mean?

[@Hawk1966]

@@kevinsullivan3448 most definitely. It was truly unique. I thought it was for rifle grenades or something. As a muzzle brake it also kinds acts as a flash hider.

[@Hawk1966]

@@brokenglass9814 that's the home of Fireplace Collector, he has a gun collection that's 2nd to none. Truly all sorts of 1 of a kind items.

[@TheLazyFinn]

@@brokenglass9814 Probably referencing the fact that this same fireplace background has been in MANY videos about super rare variants of different firearms.

[@seanseoltoir]

A lot of the Type 99s ended up getting sporterized when they came back to the US... That is what happened when my father brought one back... It still had the intact "mum", so it lost a lot of collector value with that, but the people bringing them back were using them for hunting and the style of deer rifles back then tended to be a lot less wood and more exposed metal on the barrel, so that's what they did... I harvested quite a few deer with that rifle in my youth...

[@alancranford3398]

Look at the bright side--sporterizing (butchering) military issue rifles increased the market value of unaltered rifles.

[@Soravia]

Thanks for the videos and information. Helped me figure out what to collect.

[@tehnemesis325guy]

damn arakasa corpos and suits

[@DStecks]

"I'm Ian McCollum, and today we're looking at this military-grade Sandevistan"

[@johnalbertmariano9093]

The last Japanese soldier to surrender in the Philippines during the early 70's was in Luzon so it makes sense they had hidden weapons stashed everywhere for guerilla warfare.

[@paulosullivan3472]

I cannot understand how a family can have such a treasure trove of material from a family member who fought for their freedom and all they care about is how much they can get for it all.

[@firstnamelastname9444]

I know. It’s unbelievable frankly. I would treasure it even if it weren’t from a family member.

[@ameliacid4146]

Ultimately, people have bills to pay, and an old rifle like this is going to collect dust in most people's attics or gun safes. Better to sell it to someone who cares, imo.

[@firstnamelastname9444]

@@ameliacid4146 well that I agree with 100%

[@Klaaism]

Aye though, Id at least save some of the paperwork. What isnt needed for the provenance. Granted Id have kept the carbine too.

[@jerseydriftingsouth7400]

Cool story behind it and bringing it back, imagine that was pretty neat to come home with

[@mattthekiller9129]

Before the AR pistol Before the HK51 It was the SHORT ARISAKA

[@Aliyah_666]

And before the type 99 carbine was the obrez.

[@BeingFireRetardant]

Arquebus has entered the chat...

[@mattthekiller9129]

@@BeingFireRetardant well, that's not exactly a compact weapon 🤔

[@BeingFireRetardant]

@@mattthekiller9129 Depending on who, when, and where... Sometimes it was.

[@blunderingfool]

Nothing more interesting than a prototype.

[@uptownphotography]

Excellent video with a lot of very interesting details. I came across your video while trying to research and get information on a Japanese rifle that my dad brought back from serving in the Navy during WWII in the Pacific. My dad was in the Navy as a SeaBee (Construction Battalion) and this rifle has been here at the house since I was a baby... The rifle he brought back looks very similar to yours except it is much longer and it also has the huge bayonette. I will need to go up in the attic and take a closer look, but your rifle is triggering memories of me seeing the rifle as a kid and young adult. Wish I knew more about the rifle and your detailed information is very helpful. All the best from the New Jersey Shore (near NYC)... Philip

[@anaheimducks1231]

Wow, the history is amazing.

[@manuelacosta9463]

An interesting bring back, especially with the veteran's documentation papers still in existence. That muzzle break still leaving room for a bayonet is to be expected.

[@FINNIUSORION]

I've been at estate sales where people were selling their father's or other close families militaria. Medals, insignia, uniforms ect that were earned by that person and it's amazing how many people don't understand or don't care. I lectured one lady on how her father fought for her and our country just so she could have such a careless attitude. He had a purple heart and a silver star along with campaign ribbons from 3 different theaters of operation in ww2 as well as one in Korea. I purchased almost everything. I couldn't imagine selling something like that if it was my father's.

[@yarisftw3736]

awe man. can't believe you didn't show that sabre. what a loss...

[@TheHylianBatman]

That's kind of a shame. I would call that a family relic. Like it or not, you still ought to keep it. At least now we all get to see it, as opposed to it still being in a closet or a box.

[@ithinkihadeight]

Great stuff as always. The story really makes one think about what else got issued and out into the world, only to unknowingly captured and brought back that is still undiscovered.

[@acdclexu6296]

ian i love that you mention every nerdy detail that you see 😊 im absolute the same by guitars 😂😂

[@haroldjedrzejczyk9449]

This carbine is an almost-unbelievably rare piece of history! 🤯

[@lawindacera7219]

Its like a toy gun to start little boys early in the path of bushido

[@nikburisson9-pissedoffpeasant-]

I enjoy seeing you collaborate with Jackson Crawford. Continue to be you friend.

[@mcintoshpc]

Ah yes, our old friend Len Fireplaceguy Antaris, purveyor of incredibly specific weird guns

[@Mrgunsngear]

Thanks

[@ericwilliams2574]

Love my two Arisakas; Two Type 38s! One is a "Last Ditch" which ai never fire, the other is one of my regular Range Queens. This type 99 proto is something else!

[@adamwestlund4750]

I'm curious, where do you typically get ammo for your Type 38?

[@allangibson8494]

The “last ditch” Arisaka’s are just as robust as the earlier production rifles. The “fragile” Arisaka myth came from US Servicemen picking up the primary school training rifles (yes fully functional blank firing training rifles for 10 year olds) that had zinc diecast receivers and unrifled barrels and were designed to fire blanks and putting live rounds through them (exactly once). These “rifles” are clearly marked on the receiver “blanks only” but that is in Japanese. There were also similar blank firing machine guns (which are also subject to rapid unscheduled disassembly if fired with live ammunition).

[@Aliyah_666]

Why not fire the last ditch rifle. Those rifles are entirely safe. Literally just less refined than the ones before. Same bolt, same lockup, same strength of lockup. Literally anyone who believes Japan would make a last ditch rifle that would fail upon firing is dead wrong. The big mistake that was made back then is US soldiers would find training rifles that weren't meant for fighting. Same as how in the US military we were first given inactive M16 clones. Literally built all the same inside just rendered inoperable.

[@0BAAC0]

Do you reload? If so, if you don't mind me asking, what's your powder and bullet diameter of choice? (Don't need recipes, just looking for component ideas.)

[@rchopin4]

@@0BAAC0 IMR 4895 and any .264 (6.5mm) projectile in the 130-156gr range will work. Just make sure you consult a manual and adjust per weight of projectile. Hodgdon, Lee, and Hornady all have info as well as others.

[@mohammedsaysrashid3587]

Nice introducing

[@matersworkshop6123]

I wish you were closer to me so you could take a look at my Type 99 that I found in a pawn shop.

[@BoldAlligator]

I’d be willing to bet that the senior McCollum would love to get his hands on this example

[@Grasyl]

8:52 The gases will not be able to push the rifle forwards to counter the recoil, because rifle and break are technically the same body. This is the same reason why you are not able to lift yourself up in the air by bulling your hair upwards with your own arm. The shield is most likely there to prevent the gases from escaping forwards and therefore reducing the rocket effect.

[@Hyperus]

The rifle and brake are the same body, the gases are not. Redirecting them rear wards (even if rearwards in this case means less forward), you even mention reducing the "rocket effect", I doubt the net force of the gases will be drastic but on average it should still be forward, even if thats irrelevant.

[@70rn]

It was really engaging to see such detailed historical overview not just of the item, but story around it.

[@LuqmanHM]

Well now this really looks like a carbine!! Not a carbine that still looks like a long barrel rifle

[@moehoward01]

Yeah... it hasn't been ruined by being "Sportereized" like so many Lee-Enfields.

[@HotelBravo556]

Carbine denotes a shorter version of an original longer version.

[@TheCat48488]

Perfect for bayonet

[@jacksonlefteye]

that is some funky knurling on the back of that bolt

[@lando8913]

9:30 Ian activates his disassembly superpowers.

[@WardenWolf]

Interesting how this rifle somehow made it to the Philippines. The Type 38 action is, of course, plenty strong enough to handle the larger 7.7x58 cartridge, as it was the most overbuilt receiver of World War II (P.O. Ackley was not able to blow one of these rifles up, even with a completely full .30-06 case).

[@alexsandersmith1880]

The Enfield jungle carbine kicked like a mule, the Arisaka must have kicked like a horse.

[@Tammy-un3ql]

cool to see

[@TheWalterKurtz]

That is one of the most fascinating human artifacts I've ever seen. Do I note the butt is not of the spliced dove-tailed type typically seen on Japanese rifles?

[@Ostenjager]

Thank the gods Bubba didn't "sporterize" this rifle.

[@shanewilliams8577]

Great videos Ian, can you do one on the Fn Fal

[@cheesenoodles8316]

That is cool, a holey grail Japanese rifle I did not know existed. Beautiful condition.

[@michaelsommer5255]

Nice nerdy carbine ... that muzzle device would fit to some star wars blaster.

[@lt.dan1206]

Kind of a side tangent, my Great Grandpa took home an early war Type 99, he bubba'd it so the bolt handle was curved downward. We all thought it was a sniper variant until I watched the Type 99 sniper video. It was just a regular rifle that had been hurt.

[@richardelliott9511]

Your gtgrandfather didn't bubba or hurt that rifle, he customized HIS own rifle to make it more suitable for HIM. That is a perfectly legit thing to do. At the time no one had any clue that these rifles would ever be worth anymore than the $5 that it cost to pick one up from your local surplus store. Do not denigrate your gtgrandfather for making his own gun more suitable for him. Celebrate his service to our country which is represented by this souvenir that he was lucky enough to be able to bring home and leave you something to remember him and his service by.

[@Battlefield1365]

@@richardelliott9511 No, he ruined it just like countless other people that "improved" milsurp

[@richardelliott9511]

@@Battlefield1365 in your opinion...

[@Battlefield1365]

@@richardelliott9511 Defacing history is ruining, cope harder boomer

[@richardelliott9511]

@@Battlefield1365 I'm so sorry that your education was so lacking that you can't engage in a constructive conversation without resorting to rudeness and name calling.

[@andersjjensen]

Of cause Fireplace Guy has the only known surviving example. Of cause. And we're all happy that he let's Ian put his mitts on all his rarities.

[@essexclass8168]

That is one cute carbine

[@dirk1251]

For a second there your fireplace statue made me think this rifle had a middlefinger frontside...

[@nathanboulton2066]

It's been a while since i last caught a video this early!!

[@Oldmankingspiffy]

The owner should send it to Mark Novak for some tlc

[@johnathansaegal3156]

12:20 ... those documents are almost as cool, if not more fascinating, as the weapons themselves. I've never seen a "bring-back" weapon alongside the documentation before (I've seen documentation for other souvenirs that were not weapons, thanks to my grandpa's documents).

[@thepoliticalgunnut8018]

Good night.

[@joylessgaming]

Interesting that they serialised something as "4", but it is a weapon, so I guess it's appropriate.

[@michaelm9211]

This is an awesome video. There is basically no other way I would have ever known this. Thank you Ian!

[@Panzermeister36]

Given that the soldier who brought this back did not recognize its rarity, we are fortunate that this rifle was not sporterized after the war. Now, I'm wondering if any other rare German or Japanese rifles may have suffered that fate...

[@Dominic1962]

Why do you think he didn’t? Maybe he didn’t know it was a trials carbine but I bet the fact that is was considerably different from everything else is exactly why he picked it up. I’ve heard of one of the Paratrooper rifles getting bubba’ed as well as Volksturm Mauser so yes, unfortunately some of the rare ones were ruined.

[@TheTruth-xp2of]

In the film Dirty Harry, the sniper rifle the serial killer carries in a briefcase is actually a sporterized Japanese Type 02 "TeRa" Paratrooper's takedown rifle.

[@Moredread25]

Great gun and great story.

[@piatpotatopeon8305]

Is it weird that I'm most excited by the paperwork?

[@selfcorrectingunit8671]

Not to me!

[@TheVivalabear]

Just out of curiosity, would you be able to identify the type of bayonet that I have? It has the Nagoya marking and a *5*(possible 4) digit number on the base of the handle. I've looked into it numerous times, and it doesn't seem to line up with one specific 'type' that I can find. Big fan and long time FW junkie haha, TIA

[@novusregnum]

Got any pictures?

[@rkirschner7175]

Like to see it fire at night. Have a fully customized 7.7. Late father brought home from occupation of Japan. Also a basically unfired type 99 mum intact. RIP CAPTAIN R.L KIRSCHNER. 😪🦅

[@Jihadbearzwithgunz]

Also had a type 99 7.7 but it was sportotized long ago and I always loved shooting that rifle

[@SpencerShirey1998]

@@Jihadbearzwithgunz I have a type 38 I’m waiting on a gunsmith to tell me the caliber on cause it was converted.

[@george2113]

@@Jihadbearzwithgunz how harsh is the recoil?

[@johnqpublic2718]

What do you have against using the personal pronoun "I" and its appropriate contractions when leaving a comment? It can't possibly be because of a character limit.

[@jacobishii6121]

Hardly fired .....only dropped once.God bless the days of war bring backs.

[@jimmywilliamson8540]

7.7x58 Japanese Blackout Bam !

[@CaptainGrief66]

That's an amazing find, neat and interesting design with a funky muzzle device and even paperwork to go with it

[@TheBudgetGunCollector]

It’s so sad to hear the family of the veteran who brought this back completely disrespected his service like that…

[@BigMakBattleBlog]

When do we get a look and fire at that danish repeating musket? Some toctocer is pipping you to the post

[@joshmeads]

This has been the most interesting video in a while,

[@StapledFish]

I understand the desire to get rid of a weapon one may not feel attached to or have no knowledge of, however my issue comes when those that are left with these mementos aren't told what they have, and are not offered or informed what the collector knows it's worth. Not to assume this is a common problem, but those that may have sold it off to someone they believed to be an honest person may come to regret not holding onto it after finding out they were taken advantage of. In a sense, they may know it's a WWII rifle, but a shady collector could easily convince a family with no understanding it's "just another rifle, there's tens of thousands just like this"

[@Chiller01]

More fireplace guy. I get all nostalgic when he brings out fireplace guy videos.

[@originalSPECTER]

I wonder how well that muzzle brake works?

[@Hidalguense]

And the collection continues....

[@mesothelioma5024]

I’ve got a type 38 with a perfectly intact Chrysanthemum, would that be a bring back?

[@richwhitaker1506]

This is the type of story you do best Ian. Thanks for history.

[@FISHnTRIX]

Could you do a video on the minebea pm-9?

[@Tomoyuki473]

As a person living in Tokyo… The Great Kanto Earthquake really sketches me out. I know its any day now until the next one. 😅

[@industrialvectors]

The paperwork is about as interesting as the actual items. This is so cool that they survived.

[@NateTheScot]

That is an extremely cool looking weapon! As well as having a cool story.

[@jensenwilliam5434]

Thank you!

[@calvingreene90]

Both Italy and Japan decided that comparitivly light 6.5mm was inadequate for military service looking for something more powerful. Then after WWII everyone chased after less powerful cartridges. I find this weird and now with the new ultra pressure 6.8mm M-5 the USofA Army seems to have come around to my way of thinking.

[@AdamantLightLP]

Korea and Vietnam had a heavy influence. Lighter, fully automatic rounds were way better in the jungles than heavy hitting rifle rounds. The only reason heavier rounds are coming back is because of warfare changing, and body armor becoming more common.

[@calvingreene90]

@@AdamantLightLP Not many jungles in Korea.

[@russcole5685]

Hello from little New Zealand

[@nathantoth4185]

Are there really groups of pigs running around new Zealand causing problems? If so,how's that ban working out for your oppressors? Just busting balls. Seen a headline about wild pigs in New z.

[@Zorglub1966]

Hello from the antipodes🙂

[@dragonllig790]

Audio quality is a bit rough FYI some static

[@pezozpezoz]

Most interesting history

[@Viper2132]

At least the family sold his stuff to collectors. I know several families who just threw all the medals and paperwork in the trash.

[@MravacKid]

I love that it has the documents enclosed, such a cool thing to see how these things come along.

[@crispnhollow7300]

That nose scratch at the end... a good laugh!

[@user-cj8dj2td8w]

プロトタイプ…forgottenさんが持ってない銃はないんだろうなあ

[@jsee2385]

We appreciate you telling us how the items come to be in current circulation/new ownership and how disappointing it is that this man's family had no interest in them. Sad.

[@Blvckguy]

I was just playing enlisted as the Japanese last night so it’s convenient this came out

[@elliotgill2872]

Wow haven't seen that fireplace in a while

[@larethwink4450]

If i would want to write a thesis about imperial japanese rifles, what sources should i use?

[@angryyogbuscus1578]

little teeny tiny baby rifle

[@louregietalboresvillaruz9281]

The WWll The Last Ditch Weapons

[@JG54206]

I admittedly don’t know anything about the Arisaka rifles but I’ve heard they’re quite nice. This looks like a handy little carbine compared to most WW2 rifles.

[@richardjames1812]

The Type 38 Carbine in 6.5mm (less recoil) is very light and handy. I own one and have fired it. On Guadalcanal in 1942 when many US troops were using Springfields, it's said that many chose to use captured Type 38 Carbines (both were 5 round bolt actions).

[@joemungus6063]

bro its 5 am you get up early lmao

[@onsesejoo2605]

Mm, a logical step for a lighter rifle would have been a lighter cartridge, perhaps 7,7 mm x 45 or something to limit both the recoil and thus weight by leaving the muzzle brake and the spring element away.

[@martinhubinette2254]

Japan just got added to Enlisted, the WW2 game I'm playing. So the timing of this video is kinda nice.