Prototype groupset problems: L-TWOO eGR update

For the last few weeks I have been testing a prototype groupset from a Chinese company called L-TWOO.
It's a 12 speed electronic gravel groupset, and in a previous episode, I found some issues with the waterproofing:
• An OUTSTANDING groupse...
However, once it dried out it was fully functional again, so for the last few weeks i have been using it quite a lot. It is fantastic when it works, but unfortunately I encountered another problem while on an MTB trail.
Part of the hanger snapped off, meaning the derailleur was not properly supported. L-TWOO have apparently fixed the problem, so I'll have to wait until I get my hands on the final retail version.

[@nigelw.9043]

Shout out to L-Twoo for sending out a prototype product into the open knowing that issues found would be made public. I am certain Shimano, Sram and Campi all go through these issues when developing a new groupset but the wider public never hears of these.

[@philipsimmonds1103]

That's how chinese businesses work ..

[@matt_acton-varian]

Guaranteed. Any new technology will almost always come across failures and issues that are fixable for the final product launch. Big companies are secretive about it because if consumers and competitors knew the failure rate of some products at alpha stage (and its costs) it could have a detrimental impact to a brand's image and stock value, even though its a necessary process. It's a shame because public beta testing like this ( and I think Luke is doing a brilliant job) gives consumers the opportunity to see what an emerging brand is capable of in regards to product development. It gives an insight into the brand's ethos, and it also gives consumers confidence in what to expect from a production version. Di2 is in It's Mk4 version and they have got years of R&D paperwork to fall back on, alongside a brand name that has 100 years of history, so a Mk1 L-Twoo, a smaller unknown brand will have quirks but if you can see past that you can see the potential for a decent product. I await the details of the product development with great anticipation, because L-Twoo are really having a good crack at the market.

[@invisiblescout6335]

crazy how you can get beta testing for free when youre not afraid of sending out faulty product huh?

[@matt_acton-varian]

@@invisiblescout6335 Employing your own beta testers and keeping things quiet is much more expensive. For any company trying to disrupt an existing market dominated by very expensive products, cutting costs without cutting functionality in any way possible makes it easier to deliver a compatible product that significantly undercuts the price point. The transparency in what Luke is doing also means that these brands have public accountability for ensuring that the production model fixes the problems found at the test stage. If it doesn't they will likely not sell well or at all, and go out of business. They don't have brand legacy or reputation like their competitors who have decades of products, and World tour wins, under their belts. And if you think that Shimano Di2 didn't have any failure at testing stage, give me some of what your smoking, it sounds strong.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

When bigger players like let's say, SRAM or Shimano, release half baked overpriced crappy products reviewers usually find all sorts of excuses. That's part why I choosed to run TRP and microshift drivetrains, they have something to prove, to improve on...

[@luminodotcity]

Respect for L-Twoos' MO and your videos! If they keep making 11-speed mechanical and rim brake, they will always have a special place in many hearts, and wallets.

[@habanerooperations8432]

This. We're an OEM and are offering both Sensah and LTWOO mechanical groupsets- no issues other than a bit of trimming experience needed for the 12 speeds. In general, love the quality but especially the transparency and ability to get parts without huge expense and most of all interoperability on the HG hubs.

[@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921]

This is beyond excellent consumer testing and reporting of VERY possibly the end of high priced groupsets. Because this thing could easily be comp ready once they work out the problems.

[@santiagobenites]

You're not only a cyclist and a vlogger, Luke. You're a test rider AND a research scientist as well, testing, studying and analyzing less expensive Chinese parts and component options, and publishing your results for the benefit of cyclists everywhere! Thank you for your service, and happy holidays! Cheers! 🎄😁

[@richiejames928]

Yup. Doing all the research and development for them… for free.

[@TheAnde1337]

I Think failing is a normal way when something new is invented. But it is an Prototype for testing, it is designed for test an probably failing. L-Twoo can learn a lot of these and hopefully make it better in the final version. I like it too how transparent L-Twoo is with the prototype and how you can show us all of the pro and cont's. I hope my English is not to bad. Greetings from Germany.

[@williamstevens2382]

Your English is better than most native speakers writing on the internet!

[@James_R_]

It's smart of L-Twoo to provide transparency through great reviewers in the cycling medium which targets their likely customers. It give me more faith in the brand that they are willing to include the public when it comes to development. Things always go wrong during development and often soon after release for many products. I am planning to buy this group set for a 1x road setup soon hopefully but not too soon of course.

[@BeyReaper]

Oh ya I'm seriously considering doing a full ali express gravel bike build once these come out, but L-Twoo is you're reading my comment PLEASE take the Noctua approach to the engineering and let the engineers have the time they need to bring to market a fully finished group set. Please listen to them about the time requirements that they say they need. If you could do that I would be so happy.

[@cooltwittertag]

how are you trying to spin getting free beta testing as a positive?

[@howardkeylin5627]

I have been a quality engineer for 25 years. I like to think I have developed an eye for detail over the years. With that in mind…I have never been impressed by L-Twoo’s offerings in all the versions you have tested. They present as less than and they try to be more than they should be. I won’t be putting any of their stuff on my bikes any time soon. That said I am on to my second Sensah groupset and their products have never disappointed me. They just work. I have sram red on my road bike and Sensah srx 12 speed on my gravel bike. There is a minimal difference in performance and reliability between the two. Sensah gets 5 baguettes 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@lancewood1410]

But you would happily use a China made smartphone or computer to do your internet banking :)

[@howardkeylin5627]

@@lancewood1410 wtf are you talking about? Your response has zero to do with my comment.

[@anshumansahoo4869]

he is an idiot who doesn't understand your comment, he seems to not even know that even sensah is a Chinese brand and thinks you are just thrashing L-Twoo because it's Chinese

[@alexanderlawson1649]

I've had products fail on me and realised that proper field testing could not have been carried out. Its easy to get stuff operating in a lab environment, out in the real World is a different story. Its good to see that you are testing LTWOO, stuff, along with others as its only through that process, problems come to light. So respect to LTWOO for doing some proper product testing.

[@paulmiddo8552]

The R&D that you provide to the company and consumers is priceless 👍

[@cup_and_cone]

3:31- I love your optimism to think there will be a "final retail version"...as if there won't be continuous production changes and/or new faults discovered.

[@galacticdinosauronline]

I'm definitely gonna buy this gravel group set once it's ready. Just keep up a good price!

[@robertcollins4685]

Good job Luke! By doing this testing, and ltwoo not having to hire testers and pay them, you are helping to provide a reasonably priced group set to the entire planet!!!

[@glennoc8585]

In a coybtry as vast as china is they'd have no shortage of testers. The product isnt really cheap enough for the masses still

[@whizler]

Anyone else get a little thrilled when some unusual sound or issue affects Luke's bikes? It means we're in for another 🥖🥖🥖🥖 video!!

[@GGGMotovlog]

trace velo single handledly give a honest review about the development of L-Twoo giving them a good name.

[@FL-ym6hm]

Maybe this time they won’t release a product before it is ready. Kudos to you Luke.

[@anonymouskomentar783]

thanks Luke, for being a part of LTwoo development.. unofficially ofcouse. but your videos and tested their products is really help them, and also us as customer..

[@robbijay]

Get genuinely excited to watch this channel when a new episode comes out. Love these reviews, although it’s a shame they use public for beta testing, same as certain big software companies…

[@cooltwittertag]

Right? Hes criticizing "the big boys" for doing actual QA and beta testing with paid workers

[@worldcitizenoss]

It's always nice to be beta tester. You are the first to see, test and help to improve a product. If I understand this correctly. You test this product, you can keep it and you get the final product for free. Ltwoo doesn't tell you what you can and can't say. You make money on your channel by testing this product. I think it's a good deal. About Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo they have much more experiance. Thier development cycle is very much longer. And they probably test in house. At the end the product is much more expensive.

[@andreapalazzi670]

Nice to see a company reacting to the feed back from the testers... let's see how the final product comes out.

[@rascal1234]

That is an innovative fix. I might use that for a similar problem I have for an Ultegra deraileur. AND that was not a beta unit. So, design mistakes can be made by majors as well.

[@michelebaroni7823]

Only respect for you and L-Twoo. That's the right way to do things, they learned form the eRX mistakes. How about the 50t cassette? Did the eGR handled it just fine? And also: when will you review the final product? I'm sure many of us are waiting for that! Keeep up the good work! You contents are very well put together!

[@eLpELoNdeJaPoN]

If i recall it correctly the reason of that design ia to avoid the RR hitting the frame so its correct to make the adjustment you did coz won't interrupt the normal way of shifting. Great job Jefe! 🎉

[@n0b0dy07]

I got manual derailleur from Ltwoo, smooth, precise and very quick changing gears, very easy to adjust, honestly the best option so far

[@valmorell]

Impressive that you like this groupset enough to 'fix'it and continue using it. Very promising....

[@LawrenceSeetoh]

Thank you Luke, i sm glad you are so involved with the process

[@merckxy54]

Keep testing Luke. Excellent video.... again. All the best to you and your family!

[@THEGEEK2001]

Perfect! This is the development we want to see! Csnt wait to compare to new model!

[@mikekelly1771]

So glad they're working this stuff out before it goes to market. My only turn-off with these brands has always been their 'the retail consumer is the guinea pig' approach.

[@leissp1]

So far L-TWOO seems to have some quality control issues. I'm glad that you can do real world testing before consumers run into issues. Hopefully L-TWOO listens and provides quality products.

[@michaeltsui3435]

Its more of a design oversight. But yeah why B screw if we can lock the derailleur in place?

[@jimbrittain402]

Just adding a comment to push the algorithm. Luke, you're doing great work, and you're a boon to those of us who are willing to try new stuff. SO many thanks!

[@jaredfink5146]

If I decide to buy and build a cheap bike it will certainly be modeled after one of yours, Luke. Also, all the revenue to these companies will be because of your videos. Thanks for what you do, sir. Merry Christmas 🎄🎁 from the US.

[@trackar134]

Can’t wait for the final version, the later versions of ERx appear to be working well. Will be happy to pick up both when they’re finalized

[@1874rb]

Can't wait to see the final product as it looks super promising.

[@stuartdryer1352]

Eventually they will have a good product. Thanks for sacrificing so many rides testing stuff.

[@tomcruz3774]

Thanks for testing! I swear I've seen your washer temporary solution before but as a way to make the derailleur stiffer to prevent chain slap.

[@asherbeal8357]

Solid. Honest. Thank you Luke.

[@jordanlee5002]

Hey mate, will you be getting your hands on the Wheeltop TX EDS hydraulic road groupset? Looking forward to a review

[@zedddddful]

Fair play to Ltwoo for doing testing in public like this it's transparency like this that gains consumer trust we can see the issues and that ltwoo have taken remedial action it's very cool tbh.

[@davidburgess741]

Sounds like fun beta testing this stuff! Playing with components and tweaking them is part of the hobby! A bit of thread lock over the mounting freely moving part would be a great temporary permanent fix!

[@lookatpalacios]

great I am looking forward and will also buy the groupset for the street for my next bike

[@stephenbetley9596]

The joys of prototype testing. Not all bad really. We get to see the innovation & iterations instead of just having a final product dumped on us like with many of the top tier brands. They of course have pro teams to test their prototypes.

[@andrewreed1329]

you are a legend, thanks for your time on these videos

[@NDYHK2]

Elvis framset + this groupset , will be great ever

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

Since I've found your channel I've switched all the parts on two of my bikes (MTB, gravel) for "high end" Ali parts. I might never come back from it 😂

[@chillierdavro]

Nice update on the L-TWOO eGR I'm gonna buy one when they are out of beta testing - meanwhile paint your garage walls white for that studio effect !

[@colinboulton4796]

Happy Christmas Luke enjoy your family time thanks for the videos in 23 🎉

[@123moof]

Fantastic update Luke, I am following along with great interest for a potential future build. I bought the aluminum version of their GRT 1x12, and mostly it has been just great. I really wish L-Twoo would publish some basic installation instructions, specifically torque specification, B-screw tuning, chain sizing details, and any chain compatibility issues. I was left to do a best based on similarity to Shimano and SRAM, but that should not be the case. When I looked for a manual for the GRT groupset a few months back it simply was not mentioned on their site, and at the moment it is, but clicking on “Manuals” yields an error message. While I have it running quite smoothly now, it took more fiddling and guess work than almost any of my various Shimano groupsets (the amazingly fiddly R7000 FD setup being a notable exception).

[@judosteffer]

Fair play Luke, you are a proper Beta Tester! BIG RESPECT to Ltwoo for encouraging this level of testing and being open about problems! (Think how different Shimanos attitude has been with their Ultegra Chainsets!). I wonder if they will make 9 or 10 speed versions? Theres are so many post mount gravel bikes out there that could do with a reasonably priced Hydraulic upgrade.

[@diegoquintana7081]

Omg, I have not seen the video yet, but I know it will be awesome. Congrats Luke!

[@becyk_du_quebec]

Although it has issues, it's still good to hear that at least they completely nailted the shifting, even beating shimano/sram on one point: being able to configure it for 10/11/12 speeds and micro-adjust to your cassette (there's no reason why shimano/sram/campag e-derailleurs couldn't work with any number of gears other than not wanting to spend dev cost on it, it makes sense for a mech derailleur to be limited by a pull ratio, but an electronic one is just a servo that can be micro-adjusted to do anything withint its range really). If they can make it bombproof with the material/waterproofing it will be really good.

[@pawelodz8050]

Yes! My favourite yt show just before Christmas 😍

[@bobtrass94]

merci pour ce test .bravo pour ton travail et ton intégrité

[@maxw5229]

You are such an expert with china stuff, how about extending your content also to more established brands? Would be cool to have your insights into build quality etc. on Shimano, brand frames & so on. Also are you planno to review powermeters some day? Thanks for your efforts and videos - they are the perfect mix of entertainment and useful insights

[@MrRicey155VLOG]

Great update, fancy going down the Lt-woo egr option for next bike build. Di2 is amazing but so over priced. Great vid 🫶

[@daviddjerassi]

Your Mr FIXIT forever thank you Luke a great video.

[@thomasalison6188]

Great idea for the fix to the derailleur! 🥖🥖🥖

[@mrrodriguezHLP]

Fair play by L-Twoo, they put it out on the line and it will only make them bigger and badder some day. As a Campagnolo fan, I wish they had public beta tests on the new Super Record, we might still have thumb shifters.

[@ramsden35]

Amazing skills and knowledge

[@jugaloo5873]

Lol, for a moment I thought you had a full neck tatoo!! 🥖 And I had a similar problem with a wolf tooth roadlink! Dream job!! And a merry christmas!!

[@marksondag2085]

Merry Christmas and Happy Boxing Day to you sir!

[@andreemurray7039]

Good testing your to strong for the l2 group set which is refreshing as you tell them what's wrong and they fix it

[@weesenglim5904]

Wheeltop EDS TX electronic road groupset is out. Would be nice if you can review them.

[@invisiblescout6335]

Its out? Where?

[@bradsanders6954]

We all appreciate you testing this experimental stuff, in real life I would be walking home from 15 miles a way if things broke like this. The folks who build these things really should be testing it themselves, or they should maybe know what works from the start. Normal everyday shimano GRX works SO nice.

[@danjo1967]

the joys of being a tester

[@allyp7]

keep up the beta testing! i've just ordered the sensah hrd g12 groupset for my new gravel buid on your recommendation ,cant wait!

[@CycleNLincs]

Aluminium does work harden. I feel like the oval chain ring works the chain up and down, mix that in with off road nature. I feel like it would fail. Cool video though! I'm excited by Ltwoo, I have a 2 x 10 system and I love it. I am wanting to go to a 12 or 11 speed system but don't feel like I'll ever ready for electronic groupset

[@homersadiarin9299]

We appreciate your videos Luke. Hope you'd be able to get your hands on Lexon's VSRT. Seems like a brand new car on frame them and i'm looking into getting one in replacement of my X16.

[@andyamos8594]

Great stuff! Maybe your hack is onto something if no swinging is necessary once settup is complete?

[@lukaszpietrasiak3353]

I was thinking one could use a 3rd party shadow link hanger but the b tension screw I hidden away so wieredly, nice hack and great content... Marry Xmas to all cycling nut's... and every one else 😅

[@PaulJakma]

Have to say, watching initially on the first vid and seeing the niggles, initial thought was to be wary of the product - largely cause I was already sceptical of pure Chinese electronics products. However, seeing as it is a prototype and L-Twoo are taking your feedback on board, it's actually kind of re-assuring. If the end result of this is is that you come back with a 6+ month review of the product and it's solid, and you show how they've addressed the issues you found in the prototype(s) I'd find that quite reassuring, and it'd make me a lot more likely to try a purchase. The compatibility with 10 and 11 speed is particularly interesting (on their road version), as I have older bikes with 10 speed, and it's getting hard to source equivalent replacement Shimano parts. E.g., try find a replacement 10-speed Shimano Ultegra shifter (similar style / spec - inc. cable routing)! If the Chinese manufacturers can manage to develop reliable and reasonably priced, modern-performance-spec group-sets, it'll be a game changer.

[@AbielRuiz]

I was also talking to the LTWOO team about testing this groupset on my new 1X setup, however after seeing your first video and my experience with the eRx being pretty terrible, I opted for Ultegra Di2. After visiting their facility, I think these guys WILL pull through over time. But for now, these first iterations are not reliable at all.

[@matt_acton-varian]

Let's not forget that the production version of Di2 is at Mk4 so Shimano have a lot more R&D and manufacturing history to fall back on. The idea of using beta testers worldwide means that you can get information about how a product performs in a variety of real world conditions, that may not be present in the region of manufacture. It can help create a more resilient product that long term serves the purpose for a greater potential market equal to or better than its competitors.

[@matsvancoppenolle5796]

Hey luke, where is the review of updated l twoo version?

[@n0b0dy07]

I really hope Ltwoo develop a MTB derailleur on electronic version

[@rexlrosscabanilla104]

Please do try the EDS TX. Worth to try another chinese electronic groupset 🤙

[@jameseastwood402]

I'm keen for this to upgrade my gravel/winter/cx bike, but the problem is it is impossible to know when the right time is to press the button. Let us know when you think we've reached this point!

[@casperradil]

Any updates on how it is working now?

[@Ben-roggt]

Could you get you hand on the new launching Wheel top EDS TX? Looks very interesting

[@nizam_mr]

i assume on bikes that have option to use DirectMount hangers, that b-link(sp?) can be removed just like Shimano's shadow RD's

[@joshuabuilds3051]

You were mentioned in peak torques new podcast with Joe from China Cycling.

[@keithmorlen4907]

Outstanding content as usual. 🥖

[@RomeoManuelDavid]

Hi Luke! Appreciate the videos from Ltwoo, but do you happen to have or working on a long term review of sensah HRD?

[@whitebeardcycles]

This may of been said, but those or known as Nord Lock Washers and they should go against each other. Back to back so the serrations act against each other hence giving a passive locking system. Used alot in my engineering environment to avoid nuts coming undone through vibration/use.

[@Crampion]

Any chance you might get your hands on the EDS TX Groupset?

[@adelmur1]

Dealing with L-twoo for my bike brand and proposing L-twoo as an OEM transmission. I can also say this is a very good company. Very humble and Dedicated to listen to their customers and reviewers. Having to deal with the "others". It is absolutely not the same interaction. Shout out to like and L-twoo for the transparency.

[@robivlahov]

0:50 , thats oval chainring fault right there . DO NOT USE THEM WITH CLUTCHED DERAILUR . IT CONSTANTLY CHANGES THE CHAIN LENGHT PUTTING ALOT OF FORCE ONTO THE AXLES OF THE DERAILUR, MY FRIEND CHANGED 2 WHILE IM STILL ON FIRST ONE AS I NEVER PUT A OVAL ON ...

[@ЭмирАлиев-у3г]

Salaam alaikum Luke. Merry Christmas to you and your family! The question about the oval star. What are your impressions of using it? What are the advantages and disadvantages? I have been using the oval star myself for several years now. I wanted to compare my findings with yours.Thank you. And Happy New Year!

[@collinsph5113]

Hello, Trace Velo. Have you seen the EDS TX electric groupset yet? It's another Chinese brand but they have a positive review on their MTB electric version.

[@nashtsai27]

Will you check Wheeltop electronic groupset?

[@sOKRATEs100100]

Would be quite interesting!

[@adcsofghtr]

We would be forever in your debt if L-Twoo eventually develops a decent electric groupset

[@milkoinc]

Just ordered this groupo, hope that they have got these bits ironed out and they are not shipping the proto versions...

[@sOKRATEs100100]

Any news on your side?

[@milkoinc]

@@sOKRATEs100100 it’s on the bike. Still has this bit that snapped off on my version. I’m waiting for a set of wheels before the build is complete so I can test in anger

[@SichardRamuels]

I think people were probably influenced in their criticism by a recent-ish Peak Torque video in which he got really angry about being exploited as a free beta tester. Clearly the arrangement you have with L-Twoo is different to his experiences of the brand(s) he was annoyed with, but I can understand why people wouldn't assume there was a difference. An open and honest arrangement with cycling influencers (and their influencees) seems a sensible approach for new players in the market to take. The established brands just use pro cyclists on their sponsorship payroll for their beta testing!

[@kevinpeterman7127]

I think Luke should have tapped that piece and put a cap screw into it where the broken part was. But, as always, Trace Velo does the hard work so we don't have to. 🥖

[@tomaslepoutre693]

hi, I'm currently searching for a groupset on my beach bike (mtb without any suspension). the latest trend is to swap flat top handlebars and switch over to gravel/ road bars. now I need to upgrade my groupset and I was wondering if I should go for the ltwoo EGR or sensah srx pro. the only reason I would go for sensah is because I'm wondering how the EGR will deal with the sea water / salt water in combination with sand... since this bike will also be my main gravel bike I'm still in a doubt. Love to hear your opinion on this?? thanks! 🥖🥖🥖

[@WH2X]

Same what happen to my LTWoo ERX It was raining hard, notice that RD is not working properly.the next day is dead won’t shift. Charge the unit it charge but after few hours its dead again. I did contact the ltwoo and this is the reply below. As i said it maybe circuit short becase of soaking in the water or rainy, or maybe mainboad has problem. You may try it again when mainboard becomes dry or purchase one new rear derailleur for verification. If i know that this unit can’t be use when raining i won’t buy this product.

[@oplkfdhgk]

Really cool stuff. 🙂

[@johnnyboy4711]

Should get your hands on wheeltop eds TX

[@murphykenji]

I've broken SRAM derailleurs that way, but it wasn't such an expensive proposition then. Regardless, no zip-zop derailleurs for me, ever.

[@michaelmechex]

I love this. L-twoo groupsets looked very impressive right from the start, the only thing they lacked was was testing and ironing out little kinks like this. Thank You so much for doing this. You're doing a lot of work to bring back cycling into everyman's budget and I appreciate that a lot. To be honest, I already have GRX 1x12 lined up for my next gravel bike due to unique requirements, but I wouldn't hesitate to put L-twoo on my bike either.

[@boowiebear]

You get free product, get to improve it and get great content out of it. Seems like a W all around.

[@phillevin6651]

Respect