Prototype Italian MBT 1925 Straight-Pull Rifle

/ forgottenweapons
Note: This video was filmed over a year ago, but I have been holding it in anticipation of the rifle going to auction. That doesn't seem to be happening, so I'm posting the video now.
Only three example of this 1925 prototype rifle from MBT (Metallurgica Brescia gia Tempini) were ever made, and were sent out in hopes of finding military contracts. One went to Norway, and this one went to Russia, where it was acquired by a US Lend-Lease supply pilot.
It is an straight-pull design which is very close to being a self-loading rifle (and in fact additional patents were filed in 1926 to adapt it to self-loading functionality). It uses the standard 6-round Carcano clip, and is chambered for 6.5x52mm Carcano ammunition.
After this was filmed, my friend James took it out shooting again with pre-war brass clips, and said it worked reliably - FWIW.

[@annak2597]

Today on Forgotten Weapons, a semi-auto rifle that's actually manually operated because it lacks a gas system, and actually single shot because the feed system doesn't work.

[@lucianene7741]

And has a striker that acts like a hammer.

[@la-zrider2749]

I see, no one has read the description

[@carta8399]

@@dimapez Beretta AAAAAND Benelli and Franchi and Breda and Oto Melara etc etc. Bad luck with your bullshit eh? You can take back your ignorance and go shit on your country manufactury now

[@keithlarsen7557]

Extreme reliability, and simplicity! A true piece of Italian engineering! Also, I have to keep telling myself its not semiauto.

[@chris666d]

Glad to see the intro back.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

+Chris Dauwalder Only on this one, because I put it together a while back.

[@chris666d]

+Forgotten Weapons Reminds me of History lesson videos back at school. Keep up the good work :)

[@Vidar_Odinson]

+Chris Dauwalder Yep, love it :)

[@livefromhollywood194]

+Forgotten Weapons Maybe consider looking into a new intro then? Simpler than the old one, but more substantial than the current one?

[@phileas007]

+Chris Dauwalder I'm not, it scared me up, I though this was an older episode and I got really confused for a moment there....

[@shread802]

sometimes, when i'm alone on the range, i tap my forward assist.

[@Agustx0]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@JigJoss]

+ZeroGames 🌚

[@MrDimitriPetrenko]

This is mandatory in Modern Warfare.

[@VampireShogun]

Hey Ian, if you ever find yourself in Sweden I'm the proud owner of a production number 122 M/41(b) Swedish sniper rifle and an original AGA scope which I'd be glad to lend you for a video.

[@broadcastmyballs]

I would love if Ian got a chance to make another video on this gun where he could more properly show off the disassembly on a table with proper camera angles. It's a very unusual and interesting piece.

[@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid]

People calling this a "Semi-Automatic that isn’t Semi-Automatic" are absolutely right. It looks like adding the gas-system on the Scotti Md. X would have made this an even better semi-auto than the Scotti X. It would fire on a closed-bolt, rather than an open-bolt. And adding a stronger spring would have allowed a longer striker/hammer that would produce a shorter lock-time.

[@jacobmccarthy7406]

this thing is literally a hares breath away from being a semi auto.

[@Spartan043]

I love these weird guns. Especially the ones that are pre-production and a little rough around the edges, or full of so many parts that when you strip them, they come apart like intricate clockwork and you have to puzzle out how to put them back together.

[@bansheemopar]

I love that you brought the nice intro back!

[@PaperHunter]

I would feel quite confident going into battle against people carrying those whilst armed with only a spoon.

[@Rags]

MAIN BATTLE TANK? Oh, no. Wait. Nevermind.

[@TheFoodnipple]

+Rags Main Battle Turd

[@Rags]

+TheFoodnipple To be fair, I wouldn't want to get hit with a Main Battle Turd.

[@saxon215]

+Rags but you would a main battle tank?

[@Rags]

+Spark Gap I don't believe I said that.

[@Djrealfake]

+rags holy shit you sneaky doggo you. looks like great minds think alike and watch the same videos. You definitely weren't the only one who thought it was a main battle tank lol.

[@asteroidrules]

The firing pin design on this rifle looks like it would be very well suited to an open-bolt automatic; it's almost like a combination of an out-of-battery safety and a forward assist, the striker comes forward independent of the bolt to ensure it has plenty of force, if the bolt isn't locked it not only won't strike the cartridge but will also knock the bolt into lock. Not as elegant as the gas-piston linked firing pins many open bolt machine guns used as out-of-battery safeties, but also quite a bit more robust. Looks like it definitely works and was very much needed as an out-of-battery safety considering instinct would lead to people riding the bolt home causing it to fail to lock, without a safety like that these things would be pipe bombs waiting to happen.

[@SpoontheMoose]

omg the old intro how I missed you

[@Koumrian]

Rifles like these are so frustrating to watch. They are so well designed, especially that this one is about 90% a semi auto rifle. It's such a waste that they didn't go the extra 10% and make a gas system, they may not have won any great military contracts, but at the very least they would've made a lot more than just 3 rifles. Production quality video like always, extremely informative!

[@bilboproudfoot]

The old entro lives! Rock on Ian, long may you reign.

[@roccocroce]

Also, that fella standing there looks like he's just dying to snatch that rifle out of your hands. Like you're about to drop his first born daughter or something..

[@totalmetaljacket789]

+Rocco Croce Owning 1 of 3 of a thing in the world has to be concerning, especially with only 2 floating around.

[@roccocroce]

+TotalMetalJacket truesay :p

[@frankdantuono2594]

The old intro is back, YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[@justinbell5696]

A non-reciprocating bolt handle on a bolt action is like a screen door on a submarine. It seems to me like the designer was creating a semiauto rifle but had to just turn it into a bolt action because he ran out of time or money.

[@kaoswylie5928]

I'm a fan of both having an intro and not having one.

[@WeegeeSlayer123]

Good, the intro is back.

[@dapsapsrp]

Love the range table. Five gallon buckets and a folding closet door. Unusual, not straight forward rifle typical of many Italian designs beyond firearms.

[@evilpebble]

Please, keep the intro. It's so good!

[@roccocroce]

Ah cmon keep the intro ! It's classic

[@coreytrevor6906]

Great video, love your channel! Could the extra travel on the striker and the fact that the firing pin can force the bolt into battery be intended to avoid the need for a forward assist? Pretty nice on a semiauto or a fully automatic rifle.

[@MsAsmodious]

Ian is a genius. That rifle is a piece.

[@Ostenjager]

There is no WAY this thing was EVER intended to be a production bolt action rifle. This thing has got to be a proof-of-concept prototype, or design experiment or something. My $0.02.

[@enysuntra1347]

This isn't overengineered, this is a stepping stone to a gas piston automatic rifle. The backside of the hammer notch can be connected to a gas piston, and you should have a semi-auto. Also, a non-reciprocating bold handle is, amongst everything else, only interesting in an automatic rifle. In fact, to get the lock up and running in a straight-pull rifle before starting design on the gas system is quite good engineering. This was not to be adopted, but to be developed into an automatic rifle. Either the 2 other pieces were for arms manufacturers to license in their own self-loading rifles, or as a preliminary milestone for the eventual automatic rifle.

[@TheCrusader666]

Despite its drawbacks, it is a nice looking rifle.

[@ekscalybur]

With the long locking time you mentioned, is there a noticeable delay between pulling the trigger and the round firing?

[@MesserMorfeo]

I had the pleasure to see the 1st model during a WW1-WW2 weapon exhibition near Terni back in 2007. Obviously all those weapons were behind a glass. I remember they had a MG-42 cut open to show the mechanism. What a crime!

[@sanYtheFox]

+Messer Morfeo uhm we germans still use the mg42 in form of the mg3 ok its not 100% the same gun but still ...

[@MesserMorfeo]

sanY Well, Italian Army too has a full stock of old MG42 and variants, but it's still sad to destroy one just to show how it worked...

[@CrazyKischka]

+sanY The only real difference is that you cannot exchange the barrel and thereby reducing it's firing rate. Mechanically and visually it's the exact same, without the swastikas of course. (Although there are still some around where those markings were scratched off quite poorly)

[@MesserMorfeo]

Galf506 Well, that's true.

[@zendell37]

+Galf506 Yea, besides, many of the displays are probably nonfunctional anyway.

[@AFpaleoCon]

The intro is back!

[@davo171]

Ian, well done. In theory I like the idea of a bolt action that seems capable of semi-auto rates of fire. But I also see the contradiction-especially in 1920's Italia. You painted the picture well. I never knew this gun or action existed! (open bolt bolt action? WTF?)

[@DarkestVampire92]

I keep expecting Ian to fire the next round, but then he racks the bolt just to remind you that despite looking like one, its not a semi auto rifle.

[@arnomaas6452]

Ian , all these "useless" parts on a patent purposed rifle may just be a good industrial anti-espionage exercise from that factory for a future semi automatic battle rifle which was a hot topic at that time in Italy. Its after all a gas block and a tappet away from happening which is nothing in comparison to the real engineering feat of the clockwork that's already there after all !

[@RealHogweed]

+arno maas that's a nice point. Also, it may be impractical, but i find it beautiful

[@arnomaas6452]

I agree , I find it beautiful too !

[@andywood6376]

+arno maas I concur. It's a good way of getting your individual pieces and the concept itself into the patent system before the competition. Kind of like saving your game at the halfway point.

[@Briselance]

Ian, you are definitely the Gun Jesus.

[@lucianene7741]

Paul Mauser would have slapped himself in the face.

[@behindthesight2642]

so that how he lost his eye

[@brandonedwards1806]

Can you do a Husqvarna lahti pistol. Love this channel so much. My life changed when I found Ian.

[@mattorama]

Polo shirt tucked into camo fatigues. You might be setting a new trend without even realizing it.

[@astridvallati4762]

Seeing the Two Piece Bolt seems to be a derivation of the Lewis Gun Two Piece Bolt. Italy used BSA Lewis Guns in WWI, and the Regia Aeronautica adopted the 7,7x56R ( .303 Brit) and had Lewis guns in Bomber Aircraft well into WWII. DocAV

[@densamme1752]

There should be a addition to this video. The useless spring isn't useless. It's a self closing bolt. Browning sells a hunting rifle today with the same feature, lets you have a faster second shoot (at least if you don't need a clip).

[@joey243win]

probably would run best with the brass clips, great video love the report from a 6.5 carcano ......Avanti SAVOIA!!!!!!

[@samking73]

6.5 Carcano ammunition is known for doing some magical things.

[@wierdalien1]

Sam King like being in two places at once?

[@samking73]

It can make some magical turns after leaving assassinated President's necks.

[@RukaSubCh]

Wow this gun is really interesting. It's so different from the normal bolt actions.

[@RukaSubCh]

If that plate at the bolt handle gets bent it would be inoperable.

[@unaffiliatedperson]

what is the last rifle in the intro that looks like its blowing up on the gel

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Ross MkIII

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Interesting design in spite of its shortcomings.

[@drmaudio]

I kind of missed the old intro. That is so ridiculously impractical that it seems it may have been a technology demonstrator (always intended as a semi-auto). Then again, stranger things have made sense to some.

[@bungmanagforty7959]

That cap on the back is right off a Suomi KP-31.

[@dadsausmchero]

I like the intro.

[@afleticwork]

is that privi partizan ammo? if so how was the grouping?

[@jamesmaxwell4447]

is it me or is the gun unlocking itself each time Ian fires? Could they perhaps been trying to figure out a delayed blowback or at least a straight blowback rifle and it just never worked right? thus giving it the guise of a straight pull? or is what I'm seeing as an unlocking just the nature of the action and its just intended to assist the shooting in not having to push the charging handle in each time?

[@sejembalm]

For other straight-pull military rifles, the Austrian Mannlicher M1895 and Swiss K31 are good.

[@jimkey920]

When you first fired this rifle I was half expecting it ti cycle! Fascinating, Italians were quite good with firearms design. This coud have been the stepping stone to an assault rifle.

[@yelar7753]

for when you want to have a semi-auto rifle that needs to be single shot

[@rosanna3765]

Love your videos. Tell me are you a lefty or a righty. I notice you shoot both.

[@TaurusSI]

Ok what gives this sounds like a sound suppressed weapon compared to other recent videos. Did wind mess up the audio ?

[@costantinoandruzzi2219]

Design-wise, I find this prototype to be pretty reminiscent of Germany's Gewehr 43. Very interesting!

[@elektro3000]

I can't help thinking of the volley fire setting on the straight-pull Mondragon. Combine the mainspring with the sear that automatically releases the moment the bolt is in battery...you might have something. Well, as long as you're still thinking about Napoleonic infantry combat.

[@mm06360]

Question, why Patent the rifle, then modify the patent when normally one would just develop it until something actually workable comes around and then make the patent? Were they worried about other engineers in competition or was it some business practice?

[@Destilight]

I've always been curious. Why does your logo has a clock at 9?

[@wildrover1076]

Is it possible that MBT was just concerned that an automatic rifle could have problems to lock the action after shooting and made a test rifle? That would explain the spring loaded action (for testing), the long feeding ramp and the strange massive striker, which forces the action to close.

[@Blaren1]

Damn. Weird that it didn't make it to full production lol.

[@dixie_rekd9601]

least it has a nice report

[@asteroidrules]

I noticed that sometimes when you fired the charging handle moved back slightly, was that an intentional feature to be something like a pump action shotgun, or just another thing wrong with this 90 year old heap?

[@wierdalien1]

Aquatictoaster and interia

[@willemkauffeld7679]

first time ever i see a vid with +4500 views with no dislikes

[@cappinteddy3228]

Pretty sure Ian would be dead as hell if he had to use that in battle. "Hang on guys I'm still trying to load it!"

[@MrMojooRisin]

Are you left or right handed?

[@lolroflpmsl]

Bring the jingle back!

[@jonskowitz]

With that really strong return spring I'd be leery of sticking my fingers down into that action... So why didn't anyone buy this rifle again? :D

[@russbilzing5348]

It looked as though your safety was halfway engaged.

[@Yotaciv]

I can see why the Russian traded it for a pair of socks and a chocolate bar. Lol

[@pointblank8627]

so it seems like this rifle was intended to be a self loader but they just didnt figure out all the details yet. i wonder was it just inexperience on their part or were they trying to avoid some existing patent at the time?

[@saxon215]

Perhaps they wanted to use the same tooling and base design for this and the semi and save money that way?

[@jamiewiley6853]

i reckon the weapon was always intended to be semi auto but for whatever reason they could not figure out the gas system. it just seems very odd that anyone would build a bolt action with the specific features this one has, especially when you consider the other straight pull rifles of the time

[@Sladey93]

My word! In the firing configuration you had it in (by single loading it) you would have been better off with a Martini Henry! I can see why they only made 3!

[@clothar23]

And that right there ladies and gentlemen is why the Italians had their sorry behinds handed to them in both Greece and North Africa. The same kinds of minds that produced that failure of a rifle also lead the Italian Army.

[@Lavthefox]

I dunnnooo... I think i'd rather see a good mud test before I decide on whether or not to make this my new operator load out.

[@Mitchell.H.98]

What is the intro song?

[@rubberchicken6954]

I can really see the resemblance to the scotti model x

[@pricklydingus8604]

That intro tho!

[@MrWhatdoyouthinkof]

Low volume on a lot of your post . Can you do anything to boost it before you upload it ?

[@c-ro311]

One more spring and it would have been a self loader

[@Squeezer999]

I'd be scared to shoot that. If something broke there's no way to get a replacement part

[@DFX2KX]

+Adam Williams There are specialists who can fabricate some of the parts. It doesn't come cheap, however.

[@erics4086]

It come back

[@EDSKaR]

It seems like they were developing an auto rifle whilst pretending it was a straight pull until their patents went through.

[@faenrir11]

Why apparently no military gun of the period had the Winchester style lever action? Prone shooting issues or something more to it?

[@HughesEnterprises]

I sent my Winchester 1895 to Ian last week, so we'll find out soon.

[@thatguy3428]

That is exactly the reason I've always heard. Although a lever is typically faster than a bolt it becomes difficult to operate from prone.

[@alexmarshall3815]

+ilzen ver'khaan Lever action guns are inherently less accurate than bolt actions-like the Lebel, the only bolt action I know of with the same magazine design as most lever actions, the tube magazine fundamentally changes the barrel balance as it empties. It is also a pain to reload the lever gun tube magazine one bullet at a time, plus the move to pointed (spitzer) cartridges at end of 19th century presented additional challenges. In addition, until the Winchester 1886, the average lever action could only handle pistol-size and power cartridges. The Ottomans certainly used Winchester repeaters to some effect in the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, but nobody else wanted them-the above issues all illustrate why lever action rifles have never really been popular outside of North America, even today (no professional European hunter would be seen dead with one even now).

[@SkyPilot54]

Nice

[@RogueVigilante]

I need sustained fire on that Hill " Sometime later " Pew tic toc tic toc " sometime later " Pew Pew oops double fed ;') I love you Ian I wouldn't mind more videos like this

[@marman36]

shall i stop recording?

[@jameljay2183]

US Lend-Lease supply pilot. ?

[@canidsong]

You wonder if maybe that buffer spring is sort of a hail-Mary in case of lockup failure?

[@DrSid42]

+canid song I'd say this gun was just prototype for semi-auto. That's why it's there.

[@canidsong]

Yeah, I noticed that later in the vid.

[@kutamsterdam]

Interesting but cumbersome rifle, i became tired just watching you fiddling away with it, you're a patient man.

[@glockensig]

I'd like to get back to Tombstone someday....

[@breandank3026]

This rifle had great potential however it just jams to much great video

[@Wietman88]

+BRK San The clips used in this video where not the original clips made for the rifle. Thats why it jams so much.

[@rodlepine233]

I assume to be carried by Italian Tanker crews with 5 gears in reverse and 1 gear forward tanks should the enemy get behind them ...

[@DonJohn87_YT]

15:00 That made me laugh ^^

[@Jesses001]

I wonder how they could get that far and not realize they seem to have accidentally built a semi-auto system.

[@TheMrkeule]

That is the German tax law of bolt action rifles

[@shanewalters7752]

classic intro

[@polymath7]

*grin* I strongly suspect a good deal of exasperated swearing was elided from this video. It's still visible just beneath the surface of your usually genial and phlegmatic demeanor. Doughnuts to dollars says the raw footage shows something like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6GVaXirqMdjfJY