PSA: Unlimited PTO is a trap

[@mikeyllo]

A key thing that isn't talked about when we talk about PTO is whether your work is covered or not when you're "off" or whether you come back from a week off and have to do two weeks of work in one. In some environments, especially startups, you can be behind in your work even if you work 40+ hours a week. Using PTO can sometimes make it worse...especially if you work within a culture that thrives on meetings and emails.

[@meko98743]

From an employer's POV, how can you plan for an employee who could potentially take as much time off as they want? It's not like maternity/paternity leave or a sabbatical, where, even if it's going to be a long time, you still know broadly how long that employee is going to be away and can plan for it + reintegrating them into the office. The better draw would just be to offer more time off than other companies. Or, even better, a 4 day work week.

[@k3sh1a21]

I was suspicious of this when a friend of mine was spoken to by her management about abusing the policy when she reached 3 weeks of time off. She asked if her work suffered…nope. She reminded them that this was the first time she took this much time off even though she had been working there for a few years with unlimited policy. Smh it’s a joke

[@OsirisMalkovich]

You should generally be suspicious of anything people are call a "startup." They might take your money or time, they might take someone else's, but they are definitely out to rob someone.

[@ariwl1]

My org caps out monthly vacation accrual at 200 hours. Once a year you can cash out 40 hours but otherwise, it's use it or lose it. And since that's the case I have never had a time-off request rejected. Once I wrapped my head around this it incentivized me to take days here and there for myself to use my time off even if I'm not going anywhere or doing anything major. For example, Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom is coming out soon so yep, I'm taking a vacation day so I can just sit and play it all day. XD

[@tacrewgirl]

I prefer the use or lose method too because it forces you to use it.

[@ariwl1]

@@tacrewgirl And it puts the onus on the company to encourage their staff to use it!

[@meko98743]

@@ariwl1 It feels like a lot of companies who say "unlimited PTO" don't expect, or worse, plan, for employees to actually use it.

[@ariwl1]

@@meko98743 Similar to how the video mentions some companies offering free food and gyms on the premise. It sounds great on paper, but in practice what it often leads to is making it easier for you to spend more time at work.

[@myszkokicia7926]

Personally I didn’t have this experience at my previous company where we had unlimited PTO. It may have simply been the culture of my leaders but we were encouraged to take time off and never felt guilty about the time we spent with our families. It’s something I genuinely miss as a benefit now I am at a company with set vacation days.

[@Arbee1000]

I was just telling someone this the other day. Back when I had 15 PTO days a year, we were reminded and strongly encouraged to use them up. Now we have unlimited PTO, plus a birthday day off, and mental health days, and volunteering days off. But for me at least I’m probably taking less or the same amount as before.

[@kylieshaye6562]

Im so sick of companies trying whatever they can to not compensate you as much. Thats pure evil.

[@probablynot1368]

About 15 years ago, I worked for a business in California that offered flexible work hours. If your workday extended to 10 hours, then you could come in 2 hours later the next day, or leave 2 hours early on Friday. If you worked four, 10-hour days, then you could take Friday off. Sounded good; however, the accounting department calculated the accumulation of PTO based on an 8-hour workday only. Those extra 2 hours qualified the hourly workers for time and 1/2 pay; however, there was no additional PTO accumulation beyond 8 hours. The paycheck at the end of the week indicated PTO was accumulated on 32 hours of work instead of 40, as management said the extra 8 hours was paid out as overtime. Workers had to carefully ‘bank’ that after-tax money, as it was needed to make up for the short-fall when they needed to take time away for a doctor’s appointment or to take care of a sick child, and there was no PTO to draw from.

[@milikoshki]

this is like "pay what you can" things- people usually end up paying more. Most people err on the side of caution. And can you imagine being the person who actually took advantage of the unlimited PTO? It's easy to see how you'd be *that person* on your team and everyone would resent you.

[@MsKateC2K]

I know someone who spent a lot of time and energy interviewing at a startup they really wanted to work for in silicon valley. Ended up working 12 hour days without holidays off like Christmas, no OT pay but with the promise of a "bonus" payout later. Ended up getting laid off only 3 months into the job. Would not recommend working at these tech startups and do not take their word on it if they promise you a lot of money through performance bonuses or stocks

[@ghoulish_girl_]

When I had unlimited PTO, sure, you could take a week off, but you essentially had to work [unpaid] overtime before and after to "make up" the time you took off to meet your monthly required numbers... made taking PTO stressful and not appealing.

[@JonBristow]

Hell yes. Been shouting this from the rooftops ever since I first heard of this.

[@mariadiaz-mk6fw]

That is why we have a bare minumun of vacations legislated in Spain, no mathers where sector or company you work

[@mariadiaz-mk6fw]

If someone is asking how much, it is a month per year

[@tf3655]

Same in Germany.

[@kristinamelnichenko5775]

I would rather have a certain number of days that I can calculate into my compensation rather than feel like every time I request time off I don’t know if I will get it or how anybody will feel about it. This is a major red flag and an indicator of a lack of budgeting with no commitment to actually approving any paid time off.

[@xoejo503]

So my company gives us unlimited PTO but REQUIRES us to take off 3 weeks (all managers are responsible for making sure their employees do it) and we have a wellness week in December where the company is closed, so essentially, everyone gets at least 4 weeks. I always liked my PTO paid out, but it got taxed out the wazoo. So if I want to quit this company, I would just take a long vacation before resigning. If you get a job with this benefit, ask them how they ensure employees have a good work life balance and ask your interviewer how many weeks they have taken off or your team has taken off and how they handle coverage. The thing about unlimited PTO is that it requires a more proactive approach from the employee

[@jacobdriscoll8276]

Our Protestant Ethic means work is virtue, which incentivizes not taking unlimited PTO. But I wonder how we would incentivize its use, so that someone with Unlimited PTO has truly *European* levels of vacation...

[@3katfox]

Theres a book out there on that topic that i heard about on NPR a few months back, cant remember the name of it for the life of me.

[@tf3655]

Legally require 20 days off across all industries. It is that simple

[@inthesun3884]

You will NEVER get your work done because their expectations require 80-100hrs a week.

[@vanillacupcake866]

I will say this again if you aren't working and haven't wanted that time off and want a vacay it's not your bosses job to fund it...make more money.....

[@Ifoget]

Unlimited PTO? Alright. when do I start? Cuz I got 36,500 days to book off.

[@maximilian9295]

I've never ever understood how people have hours banked to be paid out. How? Don't you have stuff to do? Places to go? I would use every second of pto, usually buying more at the beginning of the year. Don't get it.

[@crazydragy4233]

The first part isn't a trap tho. It's just people coming from toxic work culture and still acting like they're in the rat race. It's nice but it's not your employers job to fix ur bad workplace trauma response and remind you to take a break, eat and go to the bathroom

[@k.b.3683]

Thank you. Free gym membership is also a good incentive for me because that would take care of one of my monthly expenses that I don’t want to have to sacrifice if money was tight.

[@k.b.3683]

Not taking advantage of your unlimited PTO seems like your own fault. My company has unlimited PTO and people are constantly off within reason. “They’re on PTO next week.” Okay, we work around that. I like knowing that I can plan a week off for mostly whenever, and when I schedule doctor’s appointments, I know I can just skip as many hours of work I need to, for whatever day I scheduled the appointment. Unlimited PTO gives me the freedom to work autonomously and use my own judgement for how to get my work done. It encourages responsibility in employees and not treating everyone like a baby who has to negotiate having a personal life. I would hate having to worry about how many days I’ve taken off and how many I have left. If I know I have a week off coming up, I try to wrap up everything as much as I can and plan for what needs to be done that week and what needs to be done when I return.

[@realMacMadame]

I have had the same experience. I would hoard my PTO at other companies but at the two companies I have worked at that had unlimited PTO, I don't worry about it at all and take way more time off. The bad thing is that it is up to your manager and some of them are dicks. And that you don't get a nice payout when you leave. It's a tradeoff I'm willing to take.