Psykers and Sorcerers are COMPLETELY Different

[@kobold7466]

"At their simplest, the powers of the psychic, the sorcerer and the witch were the same: they used the ether to change reality. No matter the root, that was its result. Formulae, spells, artefacts, subtle arts and training all were just ways to make an idea real by will. Simple. But reality was stubborn. The greater the violation of nature, the more power it took, and that power writhed like a snake when grasped. So it was not enough to have power; to wield it you needed the will to focus the idea of what you wanted, and the will to make it so. The greater the idea, the greater the power, the greater the will… To stop a pebble from falling you needed to make the idea of the stone not falling more real than that of gravity." - Sorcerer Lord Ahzek Ahriman of the Thousand Sons, "Ahriman: Eternal" the metaphysics in 40k work on belief and the power of PTSD pretty much since theres no 'magic' in 40k just unexplained phenomenon with vague scientific explanations for a power that can only be described in human terms as godlike. killing a specific person in a specific way on a specific date in a ritualized way is a lot more powerful of a "spell" or release/cultivation of psychic energy than just killing a million people. sorcery/psychic powers in 40k is like true magick in world of darkness if you know that setting.

[@Artemisarrowzz]

Magic IS a thing in Warhammer, not just unexplained phenomena. In Fantasy, "psykers" are just wizards who have learnt to control a distilled form of Chaos/their own corruption/Warp to the point they can use it against Chaos itself, but they are still very aware their powers comes from Hell.

[@kobold7466]

@@Artemisarrowzz fantasy and 40k are entirely separate universes and IPs where 40k just reused some concepts and daemon characters from 40k. also there are no psykers in fantasy, as far as i know fantasy never touched on psionics and the warp is not dependent on the psychic power of sentient creatures like in 40k

[@Artemisarrowzz]

@@kobold7466 Psyker of 40k, which were developed later that the wizards of Fantasy, present the exact same symptoms of being "sensitive to magic/winds" as the wizards of Fantasy. The difference is their education, as SOME wizards will be educated on how to handle the winds, but you could literally put a psyker of 40k and call it a hedge mage if you so wished. After all the winds of magic are but a single "college education" framework used by a single empire in Fantasy.

[@ambustio9807]

​@@Artemisarrowzz the only 2 things fantasy and 40k have in common is 1. The warp 2. Names That's it everything else works differently they are NOT the same universe

[@ambustio9807]

​@@Artemisarrowzz nah other wizards The witches of kislev (both babas and ice witches) can see the winds 9 winds Explain ? Psionics are just scifi realistic sounding name for space magic Even arhiman during the burning of Prospero takes one runepries soul to the warp to show him origins of his powers (with are said to be seperet from psy powers) spoilers it's all chaos The psionics the priests and sorcerers it's all just different names

[@dragonturtle2703]

To be fair, psykers have the same danger as sorcerers. Though perhaps sorcerers have it more so. If nothing else, it would be hard to gather knowledge or experiment without coming across chaos.

[@billbadson7598]

tl;dr "Psykers are actually sorcerors, and sorcerors are actually warp technicians."

[@poundsofslothcigars]

ty was not tryna sit through an ai vid to figure out where it was going with all that yappin

[@lucidjar]

​Not quite. In D&D terms, psykers are indeed close to (wild magic) sorcerers but safe practice also requires a lot of study, so you might also consider aspects of wizard or even the mental discipline of monks as relevant. Of course, psionics are also a close fit. Bardic influence type magic is relevant too. It's therefore not a clean mapping from WH40K psykers to D&D. WH40K sorcerers are more akin to warlocks with fiend pacts or having pacts with great old ones. They also share aspects with conjurers specialized at summoning demons.

[@bigbangattack97]

are you tryna say sorcerers are basically sith of 40k

[@Eschatonin6666]

Are there CSM who stick with only Psyker abilities without using sorcery?

[@Eschatonin6666]

Which I'm guessing would be more likely with single god worshippers who don't worship Tzeentch

[@alainrobertcantiller7182]

Blood Ravens former chapter Master Azariah kyras

[@LukazChrom]

Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, parts of the Black Legion. Big exception here are Tzeentch followers though. Anyone that delves deep enough into following Tzeentch will inevitabley be turned into a Psyker, albeit one at Tzeentchs will. However, it is worth mentioning, that Psykers that follow Tzeentch are among the most powerfull in the galaxy. Because while almost any other Psyker needs to actively shield his mind from Tzeentchs daemons most and foremost, those that submit to him are free of this burden. More so, they can wield them themselvs. ... Usually at the cost of their sanity though. Then again, being a Psyker while also "sane" is rare enough.

[@LordOmnissiah]

Yes. Kyras the corrupted Blood Ravens Chapter Master from Dawn of War 2 was a psychic but never became a sorcerer. That’s why Khorne allowed him to merge with a daemon of his and ascend into a daemon Prince. Actually little known fact but there IS actually a class of Khornate sorcerer. It’s called a Gore Mage and was used by the Blood Pact during the Sabbat Workd crusade. They worshipped Khorne as the Brazen King and not only had the ability to turned people into daemon hosts but could track the Blood Pacts enemies with ritual blood magic and even occasionally received visions from Khorne if kept killing and continuously spilled blood ritually over their eyes.

[@Artemisarrowzz]

Are the wizards of Fantasy "sorcerers" by this definition or are just only the ones who fall to Chaos? The difference in-world was always tenuous, and sorcerers appeared to be anyone who used Chaos or necromancy, not just the "psykers".

[@kobold7466]

magic and the warp work completely different in fantasy as it simply is just magic and there are no psykers. the wizards of the empire use the 8 colored winds of magic, or some combination of, that resonate from the north pole in the chaos wastes. these winds are generally benign in nature and not intrinsically linked to the chaos gods but tzeentch is generally seen as the patron of wizards and would be happy to corrupt them to abandoned any practices or limitations that keep the wizards and those around them safe in exchange for forbidden knowledge and powerful chaos magic to enhance the wizards powers.

[@Artemisarrowzz]

@@kobold7466 Not all "mages" use the winds of magic nor are they educated in how to do so. They have an easier time doing so because the colored winds get distilled by the Polar Gates, but in practice they are just the same as psykers as 40k. But the point is that it's still distilled Chaos, in a weak inert form compared to a warp stone or being next to a demon, but they still use it. You can get easily corrupted if you fail to cast spells, shown in the TTRPG.

[@ambustio9807]

​@@kobold7466 there is one true "wind" and that's Dhar and it's made of different aspects just like world is combination of wind water fire and earth so is Dhar combination of 8 elements Also in fantasy tzeench is magic literally spells are fragments of tzeench

[@ambustio9807]

​@@Artemisarrowzz yeah no every mage uses the winds Uneducated ones can't "pull" the power form lesser winds that what collages teach Rouge wizards and witches are all chaos sorcerers because they only know how to draw power form Dhar

[@kobold7466]

@@ambustio9807 Dhar, also called Dark Magic or, more rarely, Black Magic, is a form of magic that draws on all eight of the Winds of Magic yet does so in a corrupt and unbalanced way that can twist the physical environment, cause rampant mutation in the caster or bystanders, lead to the user's damnation by Chaos or otherwise damage reality itself. However, the boon of wielding Dhar is easy access to spells far more potent than those available to the Magisters of the Imperial Orders of Magic or even the High Elf Archmages who can unleash the power of Qhaysh -- High Magic. also did not know magic was fragments of tzeentch just knew he was the patron of wizards