PT 16: JOYNER WISHES D3ATH ON HIS FATHER FOR THE UNSPEAKABLE

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#MathHoffa

[@Mathhoffa]

WATCH FULL EPISODE HERE ->> bit.ly/JOINMATHHOFFATV

[@kittywalcott5360]

Choosing PEACE for yourself sometimes means cutting off FAMILY.

[@toxiccylon]

Unfortunately yes

[@nomoresunforever3695]

Joyner handles this whole conversation like a g. Very impressed.

[@djcdroid1]

When someone is unable to utter the words to describe their feelings about something, there are usually some deep feelings there that haven’t been dealt with yet. I also wouldn’t push someone to speak about something they haven’t seemed to process yet.

[@RevealedFilms]

Oh he’s processed it. People always do that though it’s a coping mechanism..they compare their situation to yours and you gotta sit there and justify why you are how you are. If you can’t trust your own parents…you become an adult if before most people. I knew…from his eyes and how he described him what type of father he had. Anyone who doesn’t, the closest you’ll get is watching Michael from The Wire for better context.

[@The7thStep]

That’s a fact

[@OfLoveInRomance]

Facts

[@skillz78]

@@RevealedFilms good post man

[@marcusvail6813]

Facts 💯

[@JudacharFlow]

As soon as he said there's "levels", I already knew what was up. It was frustrating watching everyone not pick up on it.

[@christianc.2664]

Michael from the Wire

[@delcoplaza]

yep i thought one of these three things happened, and at the end it was clear

[@deeon2393]

When he tried to give the jail analogy at the end and math still didn’t pick up on it I just had to cringe

[@a-townsfinest2843]

Right...I picked up on it right away too. It's just different being on the outside looking in verses being right there in the room with him when he says there's levels.

[@TheFattestManAlive]

They are interviewers its their job to allow him/get him to speak on it. that's what makes for a good interview

[@pete2389]

Watching Math and Mecca struggle for 10 minutes to read between the lines before it got spelled out for them was wild…

[@MatrixDesigner85]

Perspective, how y’all got it right away is beyond me 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@mannyaz11]

i still dont know what he is talking about unless he says it at the end..

[@twinscoupe]

@@MatrixDesigner85he said it was unforgivable . Can only be a few things . 3 max

[@MatrixDesigner85]

@@twinscoupe I hear ya, but there’s a lot of ways to go left in this world. Yes the topic at the end is way up there but I wasn’t thinking that far

[@KaspRoc]

and very annoying too...they have to listen more...and Math and especially Mecca need to keep an eye on their ego...

[@Tice_versa]

"My mother, my father, I love 'em, I hate 'em Wish God, I didn't have 'em, but I'm glad that he made 'em" -DMX

[@fly3xzistence]

🔥🔥🔥

[@sungazer603]

Revenge, the plots!

[@Tice_versa]

@@sungazer603 Revenge is not always the answer. You have to use the hate you have for someone by putting the bad experience in God's hands and if you choose not to then that's the devils work ? Regardless of route you choose.

[@sstelevision6376]

Some people will just never understand the evil parents can do. It’s one thing to forgive a parent for neglect another when the acts they committed are unspeakable. Can’t just give generalized one size fits all advice for every situation. Some things require a different special kind of care.

[@AirunDevon]

His pops did something REAL heinous. He got pure hatred for him.

[@conflictortiz8906]

He basically said it in the end

[@Prolificx]

The average person doesn't go through these extreme things with their parent. AT worst they're not in their life and aren't supportive... but if we're talking about witnessing 10:20 that's a whole different story. Joyner didn't have a "bad father", he had an evil one

[@stoxty4805]

An he really wasn’t tryna say it,

[@motykdot]

He tried to tell these guys multiple times but they couldn't hear him.

[@rikers263]

Agreed, alot there

[@stickereddie]

You could tell by the way his manager sighed that they were bringing up a rough topic.

[@dixonsda]

Right. I caught that asap like "dang ya'll get the hint...read the signs"

[@Emeraldcity747]

​@@dixonsda😢

[@krestal0]

This is why I hate when people say talk to the person you don’t want to have a relationship with, especially when it’s a parent. It’s rare to harbor that much anger towards an absentee parent. It’s usually more to the story and people don’t always want to relive it because you feel they should have a relationship with the person. I’m glad Joyner spoke on this

[@EliteBlackSash]

The managers face, and posture staring at the floor tells me that it’s heinous savagery. And Looking at this convo, and thinking about how The Game talked about his dad SA’ing his sister and seeing the blood everywhere. Somehow they got past it, before his pops passed away. Life is just like that, everybody’s process is different. But, another thing about life is that.. it’s full of contradictions. The more heinous it is, the more you need to get over what your family did. Not for them, but for You. My grandma used to say to me.. never hold a hot coal in your hand, waiting for the chance to throw it at who wronged you. In the end, you’re the only one burning - while they are somewhere else living. My uncle was a predator and a domestic abuser, I thought i could never forget or forgive. But, years taught me… I’m the only one suffering from this hatred. He’s probably moved on, remarried after my aunt, changed his identity / persona, had a new family, whatever.. and here I am scorching inside.

[@slickdtherapper]

U right bro thats a gem, alot we go through and inflict ourself and self destruct while we were at liberty of choosing our own fate,, Forgiveness comes handy and helps us recoil God Bless You,

[@Thunderfirelighting]

I caught that as well from him. And I knew it was something serious because Joyner breathing changed.

[@Thunderfirelighting]

That’s a great analogy about the hot coal.

[@skillz78]

Great analogy indeed. Much love to big mama for that.

[@GODsoN_8471]

That's the ultimate betrayal as a father i don't understand how any human being is capable of something so evil especially to a child & a child that belongs to you smh that's what you're supposed to be protecting them from.

[@marcusvail6813]

There’s nothing worst then a man telling another man what he should do with a painful family issue. In a respectful way without knowing why. Try just listening to what Joyner saying. Ask why privately. Maybe there’s real trauma behind his choice in dealing with his father. Forgiveness isn’t always the answer.

[@alphouncewolfe3786]

Fax fukk outta here.

[@ThaPolarBoy]

This is a great example of sometimes advice isn’t “1 size fits all” they were absolutely right about what they were telling Joyner as it regards to an absent father but they never thought about the possibility of it being something worse like S3xual Assault. Once they realized it the whole energy changed in the room.

[@Emeraldcity747]

Ya 😟

[@TheSportsandFilmFellowship]

“You gotta let that go” bro what??? Math what??? How you gonna tell that man how to feel. That’s crazy

[@skillz78]

Eventually at some point in his life he will need to let it go. Because he’s carrying something that’s weighing him down. A therapist may be the answer vs Math just saying you gotta let it go.

[@mandoblack8654]

Because that's part of growth. Letting go, forgiveness, and moving on. That anger will destroy you.

[@skillz78]

@@mandoblack8654 no lie told homie!

[@Prolificx]

I take it that Math just assumed that like most "bad fathers" he probably just wasn't a supportive father and never showed love, but this man was truly evil based on how Joyner is expressing

[@Scatpack-gw9kb]

Extra wild

[@josesantana27]

Much respect to Math for at least giving Joyner some wisdom. I once heard that having unresolved internal anger is like drinking poison and expecting your enemies to die.

[@EazyTube413]

Shout out to Joyner for entertaining the conversation when his stance on his father wasn’t being accepted. I don’t think there was any malice but they clearly wasn’t reading him and his responses appropriately. Even Drew tried to basically say “he has his reasons so let it go”.

[@SIRUSSAYS]

STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@AreDouble]

Yeah. Made me angry how insistent dudes were on trying to make their truisms apply to every situation. The fact that extreme abuse or abuse of that sort didn’t even occur to them is deeply unsettling.

[@Emeraldcity747]

@@AreDouble ya

[@Msredd214]

They did not have to keep digging 🤦🏽‍♀️

[@Emeraldcity747]

Y

[@gardyjure118]

Leave that man alone he's going through something personal that they don't understand this may not be the time or place for this conversation

[@Emeraldcity747]

It's just a discussion

[@thoughtsofapredicatewinner]

Joyner not on this wave of “positivity, therapy, enlightenment, etc.” and I love that selfishly

[@kengtachala1867]

I can identify with how he feel ..stop telling him what he’s feeling …you don’t know what happened

[@thellamaman]

I was in rehab when I was in the military for a 35 day inpatient treatment and this grown man that was at least 230lbs broke down crying during a group session one day because he said the first time he met his father when he was 9 he was raped by him and broke down like a baby and that shit fucked me up

[@zxcccccc1]

We should not reproduce with some people.

[@SIRUSSAYS]

STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@JamesBond02119]

Hearing stuff like that makes you want to go to war for that person. I hope that guy is healing now fr.

[@Emeraldcity747]

​@@JamesBond02119ya

[@NathanCline12-21]

This was a great conversation more men need to hear.

[@SIRUSSAYS]

UMMMM STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@TheGovernmentMusic]

Y’all have to feel what he’s saying. My Pop tried to kill me twice. Once when I was younger and then a few years ago. Haven’t spoke to him in 4 years. Never will again. I feel this.

[@Emeraldcity747]

Y he tried to kill you?

[@cowboylemonheadmedia]

No forgiveness. I openly talk about being molested at 13 from my older cousin after my Dad died. I knew what the offenses were soon as he said he wished death and there’s levels.

[@Emeraldcity747]

Damn sorry for you dawg.

[@mrs.fredrick_]

Exactly I’m not sure how no one is catching on when he said somethings there’s no coming back from.

[@NizzyHussle]

Bro i knew what he was saying from the beginning they just kept forcing him to finally say it damn just leave it alone they dint need to drag ut outta him like that

[@V15nce]

Analogy after analogy and they still couldn't get it

[@SolidSnake240]

Fr this the first time I ever got kinda annoyed with the squad

[@pete2389]

@@V15nceso dumb, can’t read between the lines for shit

[@klccostello1273]

That's why it need to be real journalists on these platforms

[@tonylove3349]

Yes, me too. These interviewers are brutal. Dude needs some Therapy.

[@rocko_M]

These guys don’t understand that when your father was abusive & mean; you dont just let go!!! It’s on sight!

[@killaswing1000]

Bruh Joynar body language scares me.

[@ixideathxi1657]

When talking about his pop… like he’s the devil himself…crazy smh

[@FNunez347]

To THEE HIGHEST DEGREE

[@DrBigFMC]

😡For real

[@twinscoupe]

He dead serious

[@elliot2177]

You let go of the anger for yourself not the other person..

[@travonomenon]

Best decision a lot of people can make. But I understand that anger has depths and layers that we don't all go through. Takes some of us a bit longer but this is definitely the end goal.

[@elliot2177]

@@travonomenon yep

[@RevealedFilms]

@@elliot2177nah that anger stays there it’s a stain that gets lighter but it’s always there. Joyner is my favourite artist and after I heard the whole thing I respect him even more for what he’s become

[@FATBOTB4life]

goddamn Joyner, listen to MATH, the LOVE is fueling you, not the ANGER...don't let it consume you brotha, please.

[@aarongutridge1952]

How did these guys not figure out what he was saying immediately? 🤦‍♂️

[@BelovedBrotha]

Gat laughing when Joyner and Math was talking about beating their father up was outta pocket. This is a serious conversation that effects our community. It’s definitely not a laughing matter.💯

[@crisleroi299]

You're expecting way to much from a man who calls himself Gat Murda. 😂

[@jayralmighty]

I knew what he was gettin at when her first said it was unforgivable the first time.

[@SIRUSSAYS]

UMMMM STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@Bre-dm8go]

Facts its obvious af especially when they asked if he was abusive his answer to that shouldve deaded that whole conversation

[@AlexVegamobile]

Hoffa, this part was hard to watch, fr. Thanks for threading the needle as best as possible during this part of the interview. I imagine it was not easy for any of the co-hosts or even the guests, for that matter. It is legit tricky to "give" advice or tell someone what they should or ought to do without them expressly asking for it or you asking if it is ok to offer the advice regarding a very sensitive and tender topic (Joyner's clear anger and hurt toward his dad) in a hip-hop video podcast format. Joyner showed discretion in what and how he shared to express why he felt so angry and thought what he thought with everyone regarding his dad then. Cheers to him for being willing to bring some of the cause of this pain to the surface so we, the audience and the hosts can get a better insight! I will say I wish you all would have transitioned to another topic quicker after a few tries. Mecc started the transition, but only after a few go arounds with Joyner. I know you all meant well though.

[@LiLSCRIBE]

Man I feel for you. Stay strong Joyner, you're a great person💪💪💪

[@billiemoe9056]

U kno him?

[@yvettethomson8669]

Praying for peace for Joyner. You can see the hurt in his eyes

[@mackadeww]

Factz Math... I had to do the same. That ish will eat your mind up!!!!! Joyner damn bruh!!!!! Stay strong.....

[@elliot2177]

I knew it had to be Rpe because there is no way one would hold on to that anger for anything else.

[@MrBean617]

His body language and his words are saying that he doesn’t wanna talk about it. I wish he would’ve said that and I wish they would’ve caught on…

[@Emeraldcity747]

Ya

[@moballardful]

Well that got dark. Dam.

[@AirunDevon]

Real quick

[@Emeraldcity747]

​@@AirunDevonya

[@arieszona]

I see what you did there 4/8/24 eclipse

[@cuddyross5432]

This is a very profound conversation! Everyone has their own trauma and situation. I understood where everyone came from in the talk. There’s a lot of power in forgiveness with distance. Peace and love.

[@lightning4201]

I like these real conversations; when it gets deeper than music, the value goes up in the convo. The "Real Talk" conversations add so much to h\the podcast.

[@Emeraldcity747]

😢

[@majorant102]

Salute my brother 🙏🏾 💯 #YougottoYougotto 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@deeon2393]

These are usually some smart guys but right here was just plain stupid. The 3 of y’all can’t not understand what he’s saying from the jump but they just kept trying tell him how to feel wtf..

[@SIRUSSAYS]

UMMMM STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@mywayworld8765]

Man real therapy sessions i agree some people have reach a level of evil that don't deserve to be here no more

[@tyronewilliams2007]

It sounds like his father might have done something to him, other siblings or his mother when he was a child but, I'm in my 60s, and I can say hanging on to anger isn't good for anyone. I will say this about the new generation of youngsters, this generation will turn on their family and friends quick.

[@RevealedFilms]

Blame the fathers of your generation. A lot were weak and selfish.

[@tyronewilliams2007]

@@RevealedFilms Sounds like somebody is in their feelings. Let me give you some easily verifiable facts and statistics, and I'm going to say this for black men because I can't speak for the rest. Black men are the most hands on and involved in their childrens lives then any other race of men in the United States. "Don't take my word look it up" Instead of regurgitating what you hear, do some homework so that you can show up to class ready to give an informed response. Your generation is in trouble and you're just at the tip of the iceberg.

[@Emeraldcity747]

​@@RevealedFilmsya in the Bible it says don't bring on wrath to your sons.

[@tyronewilliams2007]

@@Emeraldcity747 God oopses the proud. You might want to look that up, your turn will come like every elderly man and woman walking this planet, that mirror will turn and look you right back in your face, and you'll have some life altering decisions to make.

[@Emeraldcity747]

@@tyronewilliams2007 shut up 😑 nobody talking to you

[@denzilabrahams4321]

There are some things that are unforgivable till there is justice. Then peace and forgiveness can be on the table.

[@RosecraNsMack]

From the start of this clip, he was trying to tell them he can’t forgive a man that was on some weirdo stuff is what he was insinuating. His dad was on, he said it in so many different ways. They didn’t understand until he brought the jail analogy into it.

[@Amelie-eh3jc]

You've got a unique voice, keep using it to make an impact!

[@wackymedia9502]

That situation is probably why Joyner has so much uncomfortable anger from the hatred and traumatization he endeared. Maybe the reason he lets so much hate go thru his music. May God carry through the trials of life.

[@Uttergroup]

Epic part. epic episode. Math is back. Joyner u a real one

[@tonymontez2358]

This man needs therapy u can’t carry around that type of hate in your heart

[@TheAdamSmasherMultiverse]

"I done held a couple grudges."

[@Emeraldcity747]

​@@TheAdamSmasherMultiverseya

[@blewstacks9745]

They wasn’t trying to get that up out of him.they just was trying to tell him not to hinder it,to just let it go.he wanted to put it out there u can tell !

[@Brhoward31]

Joyner and I are very similar based on family resentment. I don't fuck with certain people because of their actions or lack thereof. That doesn't mean I'm "angry" I feel my presence and time are valuable; Disloyalty, disrespect, and lack of accountability are 3 big strikes for me because that's the minimum you'll get from me (Loyalty, Respect, and responsibility).

[@teca7]

The fact that this video has only 28K views baffles me because they addressed real topics that affects our community that we rarely speak about! I pray for healing and peace for anyone that’s impacted by a fatherless household.

[@chazwilliams7138]

Everyone has something that they can’t let slide. It’s nothing wrong with that. Especially if you use that to fuel you to do positive out of it.

[@delanomatthews3248]

Yooo you can't walk through your life with a fire in you. You only feel like this they dont. The universe will love you

[@VerdeTraks]

Sometimes the best guidance you can receive from someone that you don't rock with or like the way they move is understanding and recognizing what you don't like to move differently. Break the chain of bad examples and perpetuating the negative.

[@millionairetobe]

Well said

[@gusto5430]

Nothing is unforgivable! Math was literally on point with his logic.

[@Emeraldcity747]

Some things are unforgivable shut up 😑

[@gusto5430]

@@Emeraldcity747 like you could make me

[@my7th101]

That type of abuse happened in the lives of a lot of popular artists. For whatever reason, trauma makes it easier for the Hollywood elites to have control of a celebrity.

[@user-SubvurzIV]

Most genuine creatives have some kind of deep rooted internalized trauma that drives their creativity.

[@TyBrazy26]

Why are these in parts I’ve been waiting for this

[@rmdglobal6268]

Oh math putting trailors in trailors now. 🤣👌🏾

[@scarvello]

I completely understand both sides. I used to think the same with my father, until I got older and became conscious of so much more. That anger turned into sorrow real quick because I realized how many things he was struggling g against. Now I have an open door relationship with my dad. I said dad I may not agree with everything you’ve done or do but I will not close the dorm to the opportunity for you to be a father now.

[@joeblack1436]

I'm from Massachusetts. I think we have a lot in common, Joyner.

[@poeticthoughts06]

Damn....this is deep. Stay strong Joyner. My real dad took off on my family. I understand in my adult age where some of my actions come from. ❤

[@alag9012]

Big up to math for his comments 😉🖤 Joyner just can't see it yet but hopefully he will one day.

[@geoak15]

Yo math you really gotta drop the whole thing lol 😂

[@Deuce615]

Math made a valid point be careful cause God turn that mirror….Sometimes u gotta let it go & let god deal wit it

[@TheAdamSmasherMultiverse]

FACTS

[@keyitnam]

Facts I wish I didnt learn this late

[@Emeraldcity747]

@@keyitnam 💯

[@EliRotich]

That’s tough!

[@chrisvigo4880]

Yeah.....REAL EMOTION MAKE A REAL INTERVIEW!!!

[@TreTheJoker]

As someone who is currently went through this I had to forgive my father right before he passed away recently. I have trauma. But I know i accept him as my one if my angels! It’s hard and I struggle but for me I had to let it go as well.

[@tjinks7530]

Gotta break the generational curse

[@SIRUSSAYS]

UMMMM STEPHEN A. SMITH ON FATHER'S DAY BE LIKE! - kzbin.infoDC-22tlQ-54

[@iammckims9679]

Whatever we hate that man does is also subconsciously hate for the most powerful plans in our lives. Our wisdom is not great as creation itself therefore the only cure is to see through that persons eyes, if man cannot will forgives than he'll learn to from that perspective. We become what we hate because it lives in the mind until manifested. Forgive & remember.

[@JohnSmith-ui5xo]

Just because someone is a father dosen't mean they are capable of being a parent. We need to take it upon ourselves to break that cycle. No excuses our children deserve it.

[@12431dup]

Yeah man, it’s deeper than rap. It’s gonna take a long time to get through it.

[@Cha-LoMusic]

I’m a Joyner Lucas fan now💯🙏🏾💪🏾

[@julesgordon1109]

So my question is, if his mother did the same thing his father did to him, would he have the same feelings towards her? Would he not care whether or not she died? Cause in our community we seem to judge our fathers way more stringent than how we judge our mothers. Ive seen mothers doing some REAL fcked up things to their kids but there was never a point where the kids would say..if their mother dies they would give a damn. That imbalance is a real problem in our community

[@michealkarma9309]

Ik it’s a serious convo but when he keep sayin pause it’s having me weak 😭😭

[@unitedwestandunitedweprogr8946]

Dad's are important in children lives specially both Genders 🤷🏽‍♂️📌💯💪🏽🔥📈📖🖋️ It's #Sad that 75% of black men goes fatherless thru life

[@elliot2177]

where did you get those numbers from,sir?Sounds like you pulled that out of a hat.lol.That is bullsht.Actually, it is the opposite.Black fathers by percentage , are more present than any other race according verified data.The difference is that they may not be living in the home and/or married so, that black father is absent myth has been debunked years ago.Try another myth,goofy.

[@elliot2177]

P.S. I grew up with a father and mother at home.

[@unitedwestandunitedweprogr8946]

@@elliot2177 me as well but it was my sister daddy not mys

[@moneymakingsim4314]

🧢🧢That’s A HUGE lie and myth!! Smdh.. So sick of yall repeating raccist rhetoric that was created in the 60’s!! Go google the “myth of the absent black father”! Black Men are more likely then ANY race to be active in their kids lives, despite not being married! That racist myth started from the polls only counting MARRIED black homes!! Ironically, due to the financial situation of most black folk in the 60-90’s, many black households were unwed!! That was how the myth got started. (Even though the numbers of absent Fathers were just as equal as whites! They simply only counted MARRIED 2 parent black homes! Go research bruh. Bullshii!

[@TheFattestManAlive]

thsi shit is deep!

[@kharimooreesq.3414]

My God. I’m sorry man. 😢

[@nickprice7088]

Forgiveness is the path to Peace..

[@clsupreme7408]

Damn it seems like some pretty dark shit went down with his pops. Sending healing energy over 2 homie

[@lightbright1840]

I feel the same about my moth...... I mean incubator

[@ToroHanzo]

his jaw moving and he ain't speaking smh

[@ToroHanzo]

@@Emeraldcity747 joyner

[@supakev1096]

There's ppl who do so much good or are super nice....but they will play u if given the right/wrong situation. Patterns and red flags show that. There's only so many chances u can give. It's more complicated than it seems. They respect u only when it's convenient.

[@robbinbanks87]

💯💯💯💯💯 JOYNER LUCAS

[@earlmendoza4421]

As usual mecca being mecca. Joyner says how he feel about something mecca say nah this i what you feel.

[@SIRUSSAYS]

THIS IS SUPER SPECIAL FOR THE YOUNG KIDS TO LISTEN TO. AND FATHERS DAY IS JUNE 16th.

[@williemyers8402]

I didn’t have my father in my life as well. I went through foster homes and all. I also got adopted because my father was on drugs. I understand how Joyner feel bro. That trauma is real bro

[@delanomatthews3248]

Days will be limited bro you need to be around for your children

[@GuapSinatra]

This interview was big for both Math and Joyner

[@jlang7975]

Buddy laughing is mad disrespectful. Goofy shit smh

[@b.s0vere1gn]

I empathise with this brotha because holding on to that innerG is not allowing him to love himself which is why he craves that unconditional love from his kids.. And also why he wants to create more so that he doesn't lose that dopamine rush they provide.

[@josephnegron1942]

Respect!!! 508

[@TheMyth619]

Now, ain't nobody tell us it was fair No love for my daddy, 'cause the coward wasn't there He passed away and I didn't cry 'Cause my anger wouldn't let me feel for a stranger They say I'm wrong and I'm heartless, but all along I was lookin' for a father, he was gone -2Pac

[@bpicaso]

I get that they were trying to help by giving advice, but you can’t tell someone who has dealt with considerable trauma how to deal with that trauma, especially if you’re not an expert in the field of mental health, someone who has studied how to mind works.

[@dailynnsp.o.v]

joyner sounds like wrens brothers from attack on titan!

[@darrylwilliams5788]

If you have ever since the HBO series the wire! Think about Micheals character! Before he said a word! I understood