RWBY Volume 8 Chapter 10 | HEY J A M ES ? part 2

[@sjdavanzo]

The "angel" on Cinder's shoulder: "No, no. He's got a point."

[@Maswartz226]

It's telling that at no point in his ultimatum does Ironwood bring up the people of Atlas, just its tech and future.

[@jakesemerdjian9499]

I think at an earlier point in the show he mentioned it's people, but that part is now consciously omitted to illustrate how far he's fallen. I'm very curious as to Ironwood's backstory w/ his injuries, it was briefly alluded to in V3 w/ his talk w/ Yang, but I'm curious to see how it happened. Because I think 1 of Ironwood's problems is that he believes Atlas itself to literally be synonymous w/ Remnant's future. Like. He's mentally put the physical Kingdom of Atlas on this pedestal & forgotten about the ppl who made it.

[@jaimeeking8584]

Ya know I just noticed that

[@dragonrune6800]

@@jakesemerdjian9499 Part of Ironwood's problem is he thinks the Kingdom of Atlas is *just* Atlas. He forgets that Mantle is also part of the Kingdom.

[@SuperFAILMC]

@@dragonrune6800 That's not the main issue his semblance has taken over him, he's essentially struggling with a mental condition induced by his semblance

[@dragonrune6800]

@@SuperFAILMC True. That doesn't negate what I said.

[@johnjoehoran6285]

Y'know, it's just been odd to see how polarizing people have been about Ironwood since V7Ep11. Ever since V2, Ironwood's more... concerning qualities were shown front and center as problematic. Oz called him out on them, Glynda called him out on them, Qrow sure as hell called him out on them. I mean, Ironwood's last scene in V4 is about as ominous and clear as it can get (when Jackass Schnee appears is more in the right, then you are going down a wrong path). V7 opened the same way V6 ended: showing Atlas in the middle of military rule. And yet, as much as the show foreshadowed his fall, it also showed how much he tried to do good. Ironwood was shown to be generous, kind, chivalrous, smart, loyal, and above all, noble. His talks with Glynda showed his vulnerable side, and as much as he might have ended up opposing Oz, he still respected him more than just about anybody. Ironwood's fall is not just supposed to be a cautionary tale of what happens when someone is given too much power. It is supposed to be a tragic case of a good person's fall to paranoia, anger, and fear. Despite having so many people to answer to, Ironwood had nobody to truly turn to. For the entire year after the Fall of Beacon, James dealt with his PTSD by not dealing with it, and instead preparing for an impending threat. He became so single-minded on his goal of goal of stopping Salem that everything else became background noise. Right he was finally pushed to his breaking point, Cinder left a literal manifestation of his fears and trauma from the Fall (the queen chess piece) to push him over the edge. V8 has caught a lot of slack for turning Ironwood into a "cartoon villain." In my opinion, that notion disregards the 5 volumes of onscreen buildup AND the 2 volumes of offscreen foreshadowing of Ironwood's deteriorating mind state. Once Ironwood forced himself to shoot Oscar/Ozpin (the only true threat to his plans), he purposely drove himself past the point of return. Every complication of his plan (which stopped being feasible the second Salem arrived) has driven him further and further into madness. Ironwood's character arc is probably the most complete and (in my opinion) well done of the series, and has been acted out beautifully by CRWBY and Jason Rose. An' that's just hows I feels abouts dat.

[@morlock2012]

I mean, he's literally the Tin Man. Just how Oz failed by hiding truth behind the curtain, and Lionheart failed because he made his choices out of fear, Ironwood has lost his heart. If nothing matters except to win, there's no limit on what you can choose to sacrifice, because it has no value to you.

[@johnjoehoran6285]

@@morlock2012 Perfect.

[@tommoore810]

Thank you! Literally, everything I've been thinking but perfectly into words. I hate how people are being so blind to the past volumes when talking about Ironwood like he just popped up at the beginning of Volume 7 after being the perfect pacifist before that. Glad to see some love for the writers for capturing such a cool take on the militaristic leader, isolationism and fear were always Jame's downfall.

[@erockbaby3000]

ALL OF THIS! Ironwood’s character is perfect. I think a lot of people are projecting on to Ironwood cause he represents the typical current “hero” in a lot of media, the one who’s willing to cross lines that shouldn’t be crossed to “win” against the enemy. Ironwood represents the “badass” action hero that’s “cynical & realistic” enough to make “real decisions” no matter the cost to others as long as he’s still standing & wins the day whether those choices were necessary or not. It’s actually a selfish archetype of heroic characters. It doesn’t matter who they may harm cause at the end of the day the story says “this person was right & anyone who doubted them is wrong” The difference is that RWBY the show is actually not having the narrative praise Ironwood but condemn him so for a lot of people who see Ironwood & want to be him cause he’s “strong” it feels like the show is (rightfully) calling them out & saying “that’s not a good person, especially if they won’t work with others or try to find another way instead of jumping straight to morally ambiguous actions.”

[@theycallmebad]

Speaking the truth, John Joe Horan.

[@bandoneple3217]

Arryn: " We don't bargain with lives, James! " Ironwood sticking his face through a cutout of himself: " Are you sure about that! " Yeah, I don't think Ironwood is getting any kind of redemption anymore.

[@AshRain-nu3vz]

Between attempting to take hostages, and straight up threatening to nuke Mantle, I think he's way too far gone.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

He just needs someone to break or otherwise deplete his aura to disable his semblance and he'll be all good.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

I imagine Ironwood being like a hyper exaggerated version of Jessie Ventura's character in Predators; i.e. "I ain't got time to bleed." Except with his semblance running it's more like 'I ain't got time to bleed, I'll sleep when I'm dead, I'll cry when it's over, I don't have the luxury of restraint or morality, and in the face of annihilation all other options are preferable' all rolled up into one.

[@BlueButterfly015]

@@TheRealRightPrice Ironwood has always believed his own hype, that he was always right. His semblance does not erase or excuse his character flaws. It was AFTER his aura broke in his fight with Watts that he said he was willing to sacrifice anything to win. His semblance is a result of his flaws, not the cause of them.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

@@BlueButterfly015 as Ren stated in volume 5 no one knows if a semblance is determined by your personality or if it's the other is way around. So his semblance actually might excuse his character flaws in this case. I mean seriously, his semblance itself is just a character trait so really anything goes in this show.

[@ChaosArdor]

Qrow: "Sometimes, I don't think he even has a heart."

[@tigrebleu7458]

He's sort of based on The Wonderful Wizard of Oz's Tin Woodman (aka Tin Man), who wishes to get a heart, so...

[@dre1426]

Omg. Taco giving the mic a little taste near the end of the ep there lol.

[@littlemen9917]

True lol

[@mr.q337]

Kitty ASMR

[@MarrowsRedemptionArc]

_blue: sadness_ *red: anger* *_guilt_* is being *angry* at your actions and _sadness_ at how it has affected others *red* + _blue_ = *_purple_*

[@TheDarkliesra222]

Also go back to volume 3 episode 1 at 8:50 . Just to remind everyone Emerald was Ruby's "friend" for weeks or months before Ruby finds out that Emerald was just using her and her friends. So Ruby has many reasons not to like her

[@JJR93]

Plus the last time Ruby saw Emerald, they were fighting 1v1 in Haven Academy's main hall...Emerald was shooting at her and also temporarily knocked her out mid-Eye Blast....their very last moment in the same space was Emerald summoning the creepy Salem illusion then blacking out while Hazel carried her out.

[@micahdear2380]

Ironwood really did bring a military fleet to the Olympics... like the red flags that sends really just didn’t click until you said it

[@mikewiggles7014]

IMO there's a difference between sending warships to an event that you think will be attacked in order to protect people vs bombing/killing a city of people to guard another city of people. Ironwood is already dead and it's the writers who killed his character.

[@corylocke7754]

@@mikewiggles7014 He brought warships to a festival of peace. Going over Ozpins head and will to do so. He was always just a hair away from all this. "If you were one of my men I'd have you shot" is a pretty damning line now

[@Hoontor]

@@corylocke7754 the line about drunkle Qrow saying he'd shoot himself if he was one of Jimmy's men, and then Clover happened.... BIG OOF.

[@blackvial]

@@Hoontor well we don't know what Atlas' code of military justice is, so destruction of military property, attacking an officer, insubordination, and drunken disorderly might lead to getting the firing squad.

[@TheRealRightPrice]

The actual Olympics always has thousands of armed police, military, and private security contractors providing security and protection for the events so Ironwood bringing that fleet with him back then was hardly a red flag. Especially considering he knew of at least two separate terrorist groups operating in the host city (Vale) at the time of the festival.

[@Tyler_Gomola]

This is the best example of how Ironwood's semblance is a dangerous thing when used too much. His ability to harden over his emotions over and over again causes him to not be able to properly process pain and stress.

[@hunterselke3249]

Yet they still haven’t properly explained that in the show

[@matthewriddle2698]

@@hunterselke3249 I doubt they ever will at this point.

[@SPEEDY4004]

​@@matthewriddle2698 if Ironwood knows it himself - they made some comments about discovering your semblance in that one training scene - but that were mostly active ones no words about passive ones like good/bad luck taht effects parts of you / your surroundings that are alwys there anyway... (for me personally the writers ruined ironwood with that semblance to a bad plot device without they would have no content for plot 8 except other bad plot devices...) mfg Olli

[@NobodyNeedsToKnowLuca]

@@hunterselke3249 they actually did, it’s in a video let me find it and I’ll link it, They disclosed it at some virtual event

[@hunterselke3249]

@@NobodyNeedsToKnowLuca I mean in the actual series. Having to consult other sources for vital pieces of information is just bad writing

[@lunaraindrop]

I've said this somewhere else, but I find it interesting how Tai's lesson with Yang about being smarter and Watt's lecture with Cinder parallel.

[@bitsobaconbits4295]

Guess she lost some brain cells along with that arm

[@benjaminreuter7057]

@@bitsobaconbits4295 patience and self control make the diffrence between a chess player and a savage beast and she lost both at the second big battle

[@Sin_cities]

So something about neo which is interesting, she always presents herself a very happy go lucky and enjoys the pain she causes, in her mannerisms we see that but this is the first time we see her communicate with words, in the Sense we can tell her tone, neo is vindictive, And manipulative and calculated up until now we’ve really only seen her as an amazing fighter and a great sidekick to have, I can’t wait to see more of neo going off on her own to get what she wants

[@randomim42]

One brief exception. She texts roman a picture of ruby with the caption "guess who" before their fight in v3

[@jaredstuder2167]

Puns of Damage Exe. Has detected an Error in Ironwoods Logic...

[@barongrasse2296]

I can't help but think of a meme I saw for this very episode: *pic of Ironwood looking ominous on one half and Cinder close to crying on the other half* You know that you're too far gone if Cinder, CINDER OF ALL PEOPLE shows more humanity than you do.

[@tiladx]

James has gone full war criminal. He is so focused on Atlas that he's basically saying "Fuck the rest of Remnant."

[@Fatalbeast22]

No, he's saying fuck mantle, in his mind saving atlas is how he saves the rest of remnant, because he believes if salem gets the staff, the rest of remnant might as well be dead already

[@morlock2012]

No he hasn't. He's conducted an actual coup, by shooting the councilman, but that's not a war crime I think. Dropping the bomb on half his kingdom, yeah, that'll do it. Several times over.

[@bluejays25]

@@Fatalbeast22 He kinda is saying "fuck Remnant" tho. Salem will probably destroy Vale and Vacuo to get the other 2 relics. Also, based on the Grimm evolving over the series, there is no guarantee that Altas will be safe forever.

[@Fatalbeast22]

@@bluejays25 his plan wasn't to just keep atlas high in the sky and stay there....you realize with the staff and the right idea he could've also had Ambrosious make a way to move atlas as well, meaning he could've basically flown atlas to vacuo

[@dirttrackart]

I feel like Ironwood's arc from hero to villain is as solid, if not as perfect, as Zuko's redemption in ATLA. It's a mirror. Both had the foundation for their final alignment when they were first introduced, but it wasn't a concern because they seemed fixed in their current alignment. Throughout their screen time we see glimpses of their true character, and it builds and builds and is addressed and builds more, until we land at the final side switch. It's so good!

[@jsuits6829]

So, I just realized, no one has told Ironwood that Oscar survived his little assassination attempt. It was specifically left out of the, "They went to save their friend."

[@angel__king]

The background of the dust and giant whale bones sticking up out of the clouds is such a crazy good visual. I think it’s safe to say that that explosion was one of the best animation moments of rwby so far

[@thetuftedpuffin1025]

I like to think Neo set her scroll on a tripod and a timer then took several pictures in different poses, spending a good while to decide which one had the best vibes.

[@kickstand801]

there's an old saying, "when you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes back into you." perfect description for James' fall from grace. and daddy Watts!! he's my homie from now till the end of time.

[@resident429]

Full quote: "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche. Seems to fit Ironwood perfectly.

[@kickstand801]

@@resident429 yep there it is. Oh Nietzsche, that clever Nihilist. But yes the point still stand. I think people remember that "gaze into the abyss" a lil better because it's based on real life situations that people go through. Ironwood is officially a monster, and while are complaining about it, im perfectly fine with it. His descent into madness adds more colour to the series. Dark colour that is. Lol

[@lhhOriginalGrey]

He says if he blows up Mantle they won't have a reason not to work with him but spite is a pretty good motivator to either do or not do something

[@timothystamm3200]

And it would make him a mass murderer, thus there might also be motivation to make him accountable.

[@Tangential101]

So. Thoughts. It says how far gone Ironwood is that he doesn't think of the logical way to "force" Penny to help with his plan. Evacuate the rest of Mantle to Atlas. Then everyone in Mantle is on Atlas. If Penny (and Ruby) wants to protect the people of Mantle then you let him send Atlas into the stratosphere. He'd not have to worry about being a monster or anything. But no. He goes for punishing the Fellowship of the Rose. Also, 10/10 best moment is seeing your soul leave your body as you geek out (the second time) over the Soft Bee Forehead Touch. ^^ I have to say. I truly love your reaction videos. This latest one? Well, I've stated to my friends that I consider Ultimatum to be the best RWBY episode yet (mind you, I don't have a Prime account - I watch via Crunchyroll). Well, this reaction video is among the best of your reaction videos. I'm loving the little tidbit comments you add (I frequently go back and pause to see what you wrote!) and the fact you wear your heart on your sleeve when commenting... it's magic to watch. Thank you for sharing these. I absolutely delight in seeing your reactions and then analysis of the episodes. :) Addendum note: And Ruby's double-forearm-clasp with Jaune which is held FOR LIKE TEN SECONDS!!! I love the dynamic between those two goofs! :)

[@jaimeeking8584]

#Fellowship of the Rose 🌹

[@coolchat18]

Mad respect to Watts this episode, love seeing him tell Cinder off

[@mathayustomoka4219]

Man Chris Sabat always nails it down to a T

[@genosisbedlam2433]

21:14 taco senses distress and must comfort!

[@damianyoung2901]

Even Watts and Cinder are like 'What the fuck is wrong with this dude'

[@ThoraxetheImpaile100]

What makes this more sad is that James and some of the Ace Ops think that the boarders of Atlas extend only to this one floating hunk of rock they're standing on. They forget that the kingdom extends to the entire continent of Solitas. Also you're right, Ironwood has been going this route since V2. I'm mean the guy basically took Vale out from under Ozpin which gave Cinder another army to exploit. You blame it on other people, you can blame it on Ironwood's Semblance, but he's been led up to this point.

[@JJR93]

It's also a sad irony that if he'd just let the SDC ships evacuate the Mantle civilians to someplace safe (Argus, maybe?) then team RWBY would drop their opposition to Penny helping him yeet Atlas into the stratosphere if he still wants to.

[@EmileA239_from_Halo_Reach]

“How are you fine?” Because Neo is awesome. Next question

[@Aquapanther154]

Ironwood: or you can watch me destroy it...I have one bomb, that’s all it’ll take. Taco: Oh? Did someone say murder?

[@Xiaorew999]

I love how james doesn't realize he can literally be tried as a war criminal and let's not forget he SHOT A COUNCIL MEMBER

[@panfanwithaplan]

There's not even any proof that James' "float Atlas into the sky so it's untouchable" plan would've worked in the first place! If Salem can make hyper-intelligent transforming Grimm and a giant flying whale Grimm, I think she'd be capable of making Grimm capable of surviving in the upper atmosphere. All Ironwood's plan would've done was separate Atlas even further from the rest of the world, where Salem could pick it off like a prey animal that strayed too far from the herd.

[@BlueButterfly015]

Even without Salem, it’s a flawed assumption that Atlas would even survive long without Mantle. Ironwood seems under the impression that Atlas can sustain itself on its own, but as near as I can tell, Atlas does rely on resources and labour that come from Mantle. Those tubes and lines that connect the two cities together I believe are evidence that both rely on each other. Meaning to kill or abandon one is to doom the other; you either save both or save no one at all. This fits with the themes of the show about working together, the problem is that Ironwood has never truly wanted to work with anyone, preferring that everyone work FOR him instead.

[@DigiCount]

@@BlueButterfly015 Yeah Atlas and Mantle seem to operate under a modified version of mercantilism, which fits with them using earlier models of warfare (Napoleonic square, trenches), representative government (kingdoms run by advisory councils), and industry (Dust manufacturing and mining to the exclusion of seemingly all other power sources). In a lot of ways Atlas is more reliant on Mantle than the reverse, because their society is set up to literally have people on top and people on the bottom, meaning Mantle can get by with starvation resources because they are used to it, whereas without raw materials Atlas isn't manufacturing anything. But ultimately the relationship, while lopsided, is symbiotic, like you said.

[@CABRALFAN27]

And even if Salem can't create Grimm that survive in the upper atmosphere, she can still sweep across the rest of the world with ease when they no longer have Atlas' protection, and you know what probably _can_ destroy Atlas? *The Relic of Destruction!*

[@sidous471]

Here's what I hate about his ultimatum ._. Like... He says "I'll allow Mantle to fight for itself" when that's..... literally what he's been doing the entire time .-. Like that was the problem Jimmy

[@S0LAVELLANHELL]

think that’s the point lol ... he’s technically not really allowing them a choice. either help him or mantle is gone :/

[@Sonicring123Dubs]

I have been loving Ironwood these past volumes. It's become all about control for him. My way or the highway mentality. Early on he tries to be good guy about it cuz he DOES want to work with these ppl he thought he could trust. But over the course of the series we see those foundations of trust get knocked down bit by bit and then heavy hits during vol 7. One key line I love thinkin back on he said "No more surprises, I don't think I can take it..." he says it jokingly but my god its 100% accurate. After that with Cinder trollin him with chess piece again and then confirmin another lost trust from Yang and Blake about Robin and bam the powder keg is ignited. Really been lovin it~

[@JJMDude]

Oh it's SO good to see the old you, voice shaking in indignant rage like back in V4... *"I can't wait to see the backflips people do to justify Ironwood..."* Oh that's not what they're doing, they know this is beyond defense. The complaint is "great, they made him a villain now," blaming the writers in one hand, and as always blaming RWBY for not fully trusting someone who, regardless if he seemed legit at the start, was plainly in a questionable mental state that required deferred judgment. They blame RWBY for "pushing him too far" all the while citing his initial goodwill as if it couldn't be seen as a bribe to assure loyalty. Because... after all... the sole high Commander of the planet's strongest military should TOTALLY be someone with intense moodswings who can be driven to actual megalomania by the fibs of a gaggle of teenagers. Remaining calm under pressure was NEVER a prerequisite for literally the highest office of the military... Cold as I think they are, I at least UNDERSTAND the perspective of those unwilling to incur risk to Atlas by waiting for Mantle. Though of course, it never needed to be an all or nothing proposition, and I'll put Ironwood's unwillingness to compromise on him. But it's clear that anyone that can be driven so easily to the place he is NOW should never have held the power he commands. RWBY's lesson should be that Ozpin was too guarded, but not entirely wrong, because if anything, trusting Ironwood with the information they originally hid only made matters worse.

[@GingerChic87]

Taco comin in like, you need some support so pay attention to me.

[@littlemen9917]

Oof

[@WearyKatie]

I discussed this with a friend last week - I think Neo took the picture of herself. Either her illusions are strong enough to hold a scroll to take a picture, or that's actually an illusion in the picture and the real Neo took it.

[@extragarb]

Oh shit, that's got to be it! Taking a picture of an illusion is 1000% more in character than comically setting up a scroll on a makeshift tripod on a timer

[@Mirality]

Why does nobody ever think that the umbrella could be used as a selfie stick?

[@brandondodge6040]

That edit at the end with Cinders speech was amazing.

[@kingdedede44]

My friend and I had almost the same reaction as you did about Ironwoods ultimatum with slightly more swears lol. It is always so fun to watch your videos and there always something I have in the background when I'm doing my college work. Thank you so much for all you do.

[@ap0llogetic427]

I love how the sdc ships wouldnt even have been a detriment to ironwoods plan he's just way too far gone to care

[@emperordaniel9595]

Not to mention how he declares that Watts _"was either incompetent, or he betrayed us"_ when Watts did *exactly what Ironwood wanted:* implanted a virus in Penny that would make her open the Vault of the Winter Maiden. Ironwood doesn't even *_consider_* that Penny might just be fighting back against the virus - which is something that Watts himself *_did_* admit.

[@tommygunn704]

If anything, it would’ve been more helpful to him. If Mantle had been evacuated, Ruby and co. wouldn’t have to worry about it and probably would’ve helped him do something about Atlas.

[@erockbaby3000]

Not only would it not have been a detriment, it would’ve been a huge BOON for his plans. Even if Ruby & them wouldn’t go along with his original plan, they would’ve at the bare minimum been more acceptable to hearing him out & finding out a working plan. Cause Salem is out of commission for the moment (who knows for how long), & if the people of Mantle had been saved that would’ve been the 2 major issues they had that caused them to go against Ironwood. But Ironwood is such a controller & a “my way or the high way” type of person that he needs the people of Mantle to die. Not the city of Mantle being empty/destroyed but the people of Mantle needing to die for his plan of lifting Atlas into the air to succeed

[@SkullsOfTorment]

But this is Justice. you know, Just-Us. As in Just Ironwood and his precious Atlas. After all, It's for the Greater Good: His. :D

[@oforth]

thank you for providing me with a way to work around my temptation to spoil with the “character does Something,” format 😀

[@oforth]

also, now that i’ve finished the episode, so much good stuff in this reaction... i mean, i don’t think Ironwood’s fall was inevitable, but i have been saying that it was absolutely set up the whole time... not to mention the, “GAY”

[@chorustrilogy]

One thing to note: From Ironwoods' perspective, it was never about justice. He has never cared about justice, just the survival of Atlas. Not the whole kingdom of Mantle, just Atlas.

[@eden8457]

Woah. Can we talk about that little edited clip at the end there... that was so fucking cool omg I feel like Emerald could have booked it when rwby + friends were watching Ironwood- if she really wanted to. I know she just betrayed Salem + she's on a floating island so where is she gonna go? but I want her to make more decisions for herself! She's my favorite character! But babe! Stand up for yourself! Do something! Also I love the insight you give as an animator especially because I have no idea what animation looks like when in progress

[@jaimeeking8584]

Who else wants to hear Oz/Ozma/all of the echoing voices of the previous reincarnations...Yelling a hoard of choice words to Tinnman for shooting their favorite Farmboy!...and the ultimatum.

[@robertpresley1503]

I think people keep forgetting that the choices at this point are pretty much "lose mantle and save atlas" or "lose mantle AND atlas to Salem". Like Ironwood said, she'll keep coming back until they are all destroyed or she has the staff and is one step closer to destroying EVERYTHING.

[@Tangential101]

No. At this point, THE GRIMM WERE MOSTLY WIPED OUT. Atlas is now safe. Any Grimm that are left can be eliminated by the forces on hand. So if Ironwood just used his brain for half a second, he'd realize that by bringing the people of Mantle onto Atlas, *he could force Penny's hand to do what he wants* and still be a hero in the eyes of the people. He wins, Penny and crew are happy, and probably even gets an apology out of Ruby for blacklisting him publicly. Instead he went pure supervillain. He is *punishing* the Fellowship of the Rose for daring to stand up to him. I would not be at all surprised if after he got what he wanted, he nuked Mantle *anyway* because he was going to punish the Fellowship, and then put them all to death one by one with Ruby second-to-last and Penny last, just to let it sink in that you don't mess with Ironwood. This is the path he's marching down. The moment Oscar and Ozma nuked the Whale and took Salem out of the picture for however long it takes? The choices stopped being "lose Mantle and save Atlas" and saving both groups of people became the only truly valid choice for him. He decided to double down. And even his most trusted lieutenant, Winter Schnee, is seeing him as the monster he has become.

[@BlueButterfly015]

Actually, you’re wrong. The death of Mantle would mean the inevitable fall of Atlas, because Mantle doesn’t just depend on Atlas, it also sustains and supplies it. Atlas is not self-sufficient, it would not last on its own and it would have no allies to call upon because their military dictator has burned every ally he has ever worked with going all the way back to before the Fall of Beacon. Ironwood would have to stand down and face charges before anyone would risk helping Atlas, but I don’t think Ironwood would ever admit he was ever wrong, much less willingly give up his power and control. No, Ironwood would sooner reduce the population of Atlas as well as attempt to threaten other Kingdoms into giving up their resources, but it won’t go that far, because Ironwood won’t be allowed to run away after everything he has done and threatened to do.

[@simplyclover7410]

Emerald be like: "Hello, Zuko Here"

[@johnnygnoneeded]

Way more than a simple 180 though!

[@corym.m.3084]

It went from saving the relic to saving atlas and making excuses to destroy Mantel.

[@jdspartan117]

I had a hot second of worry when we finally saw Oscar looking at his hands and the cane that what he did accelerated the fusing to its finality, that Oscar was gone.

[@dreamergal57]

Love that rant right after the episode ended. and the music playign when salem appeared in volume 7...it shows how passionate and emotionally invested you are in it. by all means, ramble away!

[@Famous_Influencer]

I don't think James needs justification, but his actions can be reasoned and excused with the understanding that he's not genuinely in control. His semblance is in control. James isn't CAPABLE of second guessing, his semblance will reinforce his decisions and grant him the willpower to do whatever he decides, there's no moment to buckle under the stress or emotions because his power is specifically not to. Ironwood can bear the weight of any sacrifice or guilt, but sometimes that isn't a good thing. Sometimes we need to be broken to be better.

[@qmchale5130]

His Semblance is supposed to be named "Mettle", right? Gives him an iron resolve to accomplish a task by turning off his other emotions?

[@Famous_Influencer]

@@qmchale5130 Yeah, though it runs passively so we can presume that, like Qrow, he can't turn it off. Ironwood winds up stuck in this wholehearted resolve that no amount of criticism can break. When he says he will do ANYTHING to beat Salem? Mettle essentially guarantees that he means it.

[@SPEEDY4004]

...to the olympics yes but also to the point were the fall maiden was just attacked and mostly still targeted - so yes to an olympics which was most likely to become a warzone anyway but had not much protection since ozpin didn't want to panic the people by stopping it beforehand - which didn't work well thanks to watts and co... mfg Olli

[@panfanwithaplan]

You could also argue that Ironwood bringing his troops to the festival above Ozpin's head just made the Fall of Beacon worse, because Cinder and her crew were able to hack into the ships and the robotic soldiers and turn them against the people. I used to think Ironwood was a good man, if a little paranoid and somewhat overly authoritative. But now he's gone fully off the damn deep end. The Tin Man has lost his heart, soul, and whole damn mind.

[@blackvial]

@@panfanwithaplan or you could argue that without those troops shit would have been even worse

[@SPEEDY4004]

​@@panfanwithaplan cinder only spread the virus made by watts which was supposed to be dead - which seemed good enough for them to not expect a software attack from the outside - seems rather careless / plot convenient for the bad guys - but no idea on what level cyber crimes/security etc are in this world well now volume 8 is over and we don't have to worry much anymore mfg Olli

[@capper187]

17:30 He's more machine now, than man...

[@johnnygnoneeded]

"...twisted and evil!" (;]D,

[@Xardion55]

-Chapter 10: Ultimatum RWBY quote of the chapter _“You think you’re entitled to everything just because you suffered, but suffering isn’t enough. You can’t just be strong, you have to be smart! You can’t just be deserving; you have to be worthy! But all you have ever been is a bloody migraine!” (Arthur Watts)_ -Aftermath When Oscar released the power of his cane, I was not expecting that. Oscar explained that the power his used was kinetic energy. Was that linked to his magical power or was it tech based? Or maybe it’s both? Oscar had said that the more he uses his magic, the closer his merger will be. With that much power, it would have affected him more, but Oscar’s personality remained unchanged and Ozpin hasn’t said anything about it either. Whatever the case, that one move evidently turned the whole situation around. Marrow’s response after the explosion was incredibly telling, further showing the difference between him and the others in the Ace-Ops (excluding Winter). He sees Jaune as a friend and was quite distressed upon seeing his possible death. But that had been his mentality since the beginning of the Volume. His concern over Flynt and Neon, his worry setting the bomb in the first place, all this is evidence of what Ren had said to him earlier; that he doesn’t want to have any more part of this. Regardless, he chooses to do his duty despite his feelings. For now… This may also be the start of Emerald’s turnaround. She had already betrayed Salem and lost Hazel. Add to that, Mercury is no longer around, so she is basically on her own. Of course, her loyalty to Cinder will be tested at some point, so we’ll see how that’ll turn out. Interesting to see Oscar and Ren defending her, largely because of her ability and skill, but with Oscar is particular trying, in this small way, to bring people together, by turning a former enemy into a potential ally, by giving her a second chance. Much like all of his predecessors… _”Like-minded souls indeed…”(Salem)_ Seeing the citizens of Atlas cramped together shows that in this conflict, they are (slightly) no better off than those at Mantle. Probably even more so since they were more sheltered than many others in the rest of Remnant so they are more prone to fear, which, in turn, will attract the Grimm. The battle as subsided at least for now, but this would definitely have an impact on their lifestyle from now on, very contrary to the mindset that was shared by the socialite on Volume 4 regarding Vale. _“If they’re so arrogant that they can get by without proper kingdom defenses, then I’d say good riddance.”_ With a quote from Qrow (Volume 3) to rebuttal… _”You think their scared of your little ships?! I’ve been out there and I’ve seen the things she’s made, and let me tell you. They are Fear.”_ -Rebuke This scene was quite the turnaround. What started as Cinder being an unstable volatile threat turned in her being broken and defeated enough to shed tears (honestly, I didn’t think she was capable of that anymore). This actually shows how different her persona was before and after the Fall of Beacon. Before, she was more cunning and strategic, from planning on how to attacking Amber to setting up the Fall of Beacon through use of the hack on Atlas as well as utilizing the White Fang. But after she received the full power of the Fall Maiden, she simply opted to obtain more through use of force. _“Working with bandits? Keeping Ruby alive? What’s the point? We’re strong enough to take what we want by force.”_ As much as you may not like this guy, Watts is definitely the MVP of this episode, replacing his fear of being dropped out to the ground into his irritation of Cinder’s actions, visible shown when he dropped his hands to rant at her. Funnily enough, this is quite similar to the conversation/training between Tai and Yang on Volume 4 _“But you gotta keep your emotions in check. Keep a level head, and think before you act.”_ Watts must have been surprised that Cinder didn’t drop him and instead opted to pull him back into to roof and quietly walk away and sit down (he would have had a heart-attack if he saw her crying). I’m writing this, and that moment still has me stumped. I guess talk no jutsu really does work… Now the question is, how is she going to deal with the situation now that Salem is out for the moment and Neo has the Relic? -Corrupted General _“I will sacrifice whatever it takes to stop her.”_ _“Oh, I hope you do, James. I hope you do.”_ What Ironwood didn’t realize was that sacrifice would include his own sanity. The honest truth is that Ironwood is obsessed with having any sort of leverage. Even after his error regarding Roman Torchwick, he is still focused on having that, on having control, mainly due to the fear of losing it after what Salem did to his army at the Fall of Beacon. Ironwood’s psyche drops further and further into the abyss due to his mounting frustration on the war, so hearing that Cinder had broken into the prison to get Watts didn’t exactly help. Although it seemed odd for him to specifically target Qrow (at least, not at this point) for recapture. Giving that Qrow didn’t resist arrest, there was no real reason to think that he would be a threat. But I’d imagine that Ironwood was worried that Qrow would seek out Ruby and likely he’d find out what he was doing before the battle and then react accordingly. After the whale Grimm was defeated, one would think that would be, at the very least, a moment of respite, especially considering that a few moments before, Atlas was under siege from Salem and the Grimm. Even more, he would want to wonder what destroyed the whale Grimm if it wasn’t the bomb. But he brushed past that just to focus on his current plan; getting Penny to open the vault in order to move Atlas away before Salem revives. And because he has yet to determine Penny’s status, he assumes that she is still with her friends (which they were, but not the way he thinks). So he goes by that by using her friends as leverages to bring her to him. Which they no longer have because of Winter… I think that moment there is where he truly lost his mind. Hearing what Winter had was likely the last straw (or close to it) because now he will believe that even his closest soldier had betrayed him (Seriously Harriet, are you trying to be more disliked by everyone?). I was actually worried that he would strike her down or something similarly physical (like what he did to the table), but the fact that he didn’t was probably worse. He could very likely use her as a pawn to pressure Weiss to find Penny. And then it gets worse. Destroying the aid that could have saved Mantle is insane. The entire conflict with Ironwood and RWBY was solely on the fact of saving Mantle and Atlas. With Mantle being saved, it would have made things go a lot better, as civilian casualties of another battle would have been minimized. Furthermore, if Mantle is rescued, then there would be no reason for Penny _not_ open the vault and move Atlas to safety as well. But instead, he destroyed Mantle’s best chance of survival just to use them as leverage. Even worse, it appears he wanted Mantle destroyed one way or another. If his demand was met, Mantle would be left to die, either by the Grimm or by the temperature. If not, he would destroy Mantle, if anything, out of spite. There is a chance that he could be bluffing, but he does not seem to be the type. He had said repeatedly that he doesn’t care about his reputation, so he has little restraint not to. All he cares about is getting Penny under _his_ control. Ultimately, it is as Oscar had warned him (before he shot him). _“Then you just as dangerous as she is, James.”_

[@jaimeeking8584]

In the intro when it shows ironwood with mantle burning, it mirrors the Tinnman “rusting over” I thought that was beautiful imagery of his character inspiration. “Or, will you become the very thing you’ve always feared?” - Ozpin (the volume seven soundtrack song Fear)

[@JBasilix]

Once again Watts showed me why he is my favourite villain in this show. I really like the thinkers. That is also why I loved Cinder so much during volume 1-3. He isn´t much of a fighter but that doesn´t mean he backs down from a fight or an argument. He is actually quite gutsy and sticks to his principles. Also Oscar literally said that the power in the cane is stored up kinetic energy. It being stored probably works through magic but the energy itself is kinetic which is a really cool idea to me. Like just moving the cane builds up small amounts of energy but that over who knows over how many lifetimes... yeah that´s neat.

[@erockbaby3000]

James has always been a control freak and believing in “Military Might” over everything else add in paranoia & fear to the mix from Volume 3 onward, & his breakdown over Volume 7 & 8 makes perfect sense. Ironwood from his intro has always been a “0 to 100” type of character add that to his personality being a “My plan is the only one that will work” instead of trying to compromise & admit he was wrong he just doubles & triples down to make sure HIS plan works. From the end of Volume 7 a part of his plan was “Mantle needs to be wiped out for Atlas to survive.” Doesn’t matter how it happens, it just needs to happen.

[@corevo7570]

I think the moment, or soon after Ironwood’s aura and his semblance breaks, the weight of his actions will crash down on him like the city of Atlas falling from the sky. Maybe even a tirade like Watts gave to Cinder would cut deeply as well. However I do think he is too far gone to be redeemed in any way besides the bare minimum of a self sacrifice. I do not think he would trust Salem enough to make a deal with her or join her forces in return for Atlas, although if pushed to the brink, he might. But otherwise he has no support from the other kingdoms and now not even his own kingdom. This can only end with his death or permanent imprisonment. I would prefer the latter as that would be proper justice, but in a situation like this, the former is also acceptable to stop his path of ruin for all.

[@raggarbergman]

Somehow I can see him admitting his faults and mistakes during his last breaths BUT at the same time trying to justify it with that he did all he did with good intentions. Because i think he would bne to proud to feel shame over what he has done and is about to do.

[@corevo7570]

@@raggarbergman I can see that too. He’s always blamed others for getting in the way of his plans or not giving enough support. He believed wholeheartedly that his plans would work if only others didn’t get in the way.

[@dragonrune6800]

What if, Penny gets to the vault, opens it up, gets the Relic and gives it to ... RWBYONJR. How far off the deep end would Ironwood go?

[@Fatalbeast22]

I think it was said in a q&a that some semblance function even when auras broken, because broken aura just means you don't have enough to make an active force field while some semblance that are passive (like qrows luck or ironwood mettle) take up such a small amount when they are acting normally, that they are always active

[@swoogity6902]

Ironwood’s semblance is basically a personality disorder. It makes him unable to see any other side in an argument and makes him ignore any morals or ethics. I feel it’s like Qrow’s where it’s always on but recently he’s lost control of it and it’s completely taken over his mind. I see him less of a villain and more of a slave to himself. The James we met and loved would never do what he’s doing now, but that doesn’t matter because James isn’t really calling the shots anymore. General Ironwood is.

[@Sin_cities]

I wanna see what ren sees when he uses his semblance on Salem, what does Salem feel

[@benjaminreuter7057]

A hurrican of hate and anger

[@dragonrune6800]

I am guessing that Salem doesn't *feel* at all.

[@Sin_cities]

@@dragonrune6800 that’s what I was possibly thinking to

[@1tylerq127]

He did, in the episode where they faced her, she had 3 different colors

[@dragonrune6800]

@@1tylerq127 ?? When did we see this?

[@vixiestarfire]

When you said “yeah I would tell Ironwood immediately because now we have an extra bomb” I DIED LAUGHING 😂

[@Megatank29]

Is it just me, or does Arryn's new give off Casey Williams vibes? Also, this was an episode worth the wait! Can't wait til the next episode's reaction!

[@tigrebleu7458]

4:36 Guess her aura protected her, as she wasn't directly in the path of the bolt.

[@funnzbeckk9565]

nice touch overlaying that voice over with the episode at the end after talking about it earlier realllyyyy cool :D

[@DarthXelleon]

I think this might be your longest RWBY reaction I've ever seen.

[@jaimeeking8584]

I LOVE THE RANT! Hissy-fit! 🤣🤣🤣

[@Omegafire17]

Honestly, I haven't been surprised by any of Harriet's moments of late ^The hare from "The Tortoise and the Hare" was nothing but a jerk to the tortoise, after all; it's hardly a stretch to be that way in general, particularly once she outed herself as such at the end of Vol 7.

[@firstnamelastname8006]

48:59 I'm sorry. maybe its because I'm used to getting distracted during online classes. But the one thing that came to my mind while you were explaining was "nice hips". lol. I literally giggled to myself and wondered why that came to my mind.

[@Pablo360able]

wait a minute, I know how neo took that picture, she made an illusion of herself. it's like a magical mirror selfie.

[@eddiehoward7002]

38:41 To quote Monty Oum "Gayyyyyy"

[@hushchild9156]

Wait, when'd he say that? XD

[@eddiehoward7002]

@@hushchild9156 Back in 2013, Miles made a sappy tweet about how Rwby will out live them, and that even though Ruby is fictional, she's very much alive. Monty replied to that with "GAAAAY"

[@Rumenix]

So a fairly popular theory regarding Ironwood is that his semblance has essentially driven him mad. It allows him to "hyper-focus" on a given course of action. I think he's been using his semblance to keep himself going for the past 48 hours, and I'm pretty sure the course of action he chose to focus on was "use the staff to get Atlas away from Salem". This means that ANYTHING that doesn't perfectly align with that goal is something Ironwood will see as a threat to his plan, because he is at this point literally incapable of considering another course of action. I think that theory makes a lot of sense given what we have been seeing. Last volume, Ironwood was definitely hard headed, but he was able and willing to listen to reason and alter his plans. There's no way the Ironwood we saw in volume 7 would have thought that bombing Mantle to "remove it from the equation" was a better idea than just letting the SDC ships evacuate everyone (since that would also remove Mantle from the equation and end up with Penny having no reason to not go ahead and let Ironwood use the staff to make Atlas float away). But again, saving Mantle is not the goal he chose to use his semblance to focus on, so he instead just sees it as something else standing in his way.

[@Spaghetti4RoRo]

I love how your chairs head pillow makes it look like you have Blake kitty ears ❤💙💜💖💗

[@j.w.darkhurst3925]

38:38 This got me, ngl 😂 I don't actively ship them, but if that's what RT is doing, then it's what they're doing. Either way, this was such a good chapter! Can't wait for next week! 44:10 And here I was, thinking Watts knew how to roast somebody

[@L3M00ntea]

you probably dont know but his semblance is passive like qrows and forces him to make the ends no matter the means and he can’t control it at all

[@GeekHouseYT]

Fantastic reaction as always.

[@madtophatter1020]

Watts rolled for intimidation while being dangled off a building and somehow rolled a nat 20 😂

[@AlmostSkillfull]

I was literally thinking about the same thing in regards to Cinders arm, like Watts definitely weighs more than her, how did she not just topple over?

[@MinisterEvil]

"If you don't have power, you can't work on the show..." Spiderman's uncle Ben: "If you don't have power, you don't have responsibility."

[@josephine4s]

You got a tatoo of Aang's glider?! That's so cool!

[@kobaltwolf6224]

General James Ironwood has officially LOST HIS DAMN MIND!

[@Tangential101]

Your hair looks great :) And yay, it's up!

[@wolphstrykes]

Taco trying so hard to help with the upset! "Here, love me pet me it will help you feel better! FEEL THE POWER OF THE PURR!!"

[@elpis238]

27:32 I was also thinking about that but her arm getting sore is irrelevant and being a grim arm wouldn't change anything, its about the physics. Holding a whole dude that weighs as much or more than her would put the center of mass around the mid point of her extended arm or closer to watts, Cinder would need grimm tendrils coming from her feet borrowing into the roof of the building to anchor herself in place enough to not flip over the edge of the building the second she shoved watts out.

[@alannorris3819]

Sabat out here channeling Vegeta into Watts as he roasts Cinder....again.

[@acereporter73]

Ironwood going *exterminatus* shows he has the cold heart of an Inquisitor.

[@topsidesleet]

Your Reactions are amazing, i love hearing the emotion in your voices.

[@vimtocat1741]

I was so pissed at Ironwood I bursted out laughing once the credits hit

[@Omnimegas]

I'm noticing they're setting up a connection between oscar and emerald in this episode, I see them becoming pretty close in the future (maybe emerald becomes oscar's new body guard?) I keep thinking about the wizard of oz and the Emerald City lmao

[@mathayustomoka4219]

Finally somebody who sees James the way I do

[@rhueoflandorin]

red- anger blue - sadness purple --- i think it's shame/guilt or simply remorse. shame/guilt is pretty damn close to being angry at yourself and sad that things are the way they are.

[@plgrn8r683]

Ironwood really be like 'Gimme dat robo-lady or I go full Hiroshima'

[@mojoe992]

I feel like ever since the end of last volume people have misunderstood what ironwood is trying to do, maybe because they didn't like him from the beginning for some reason. If Salem gets the staff and brings the other 3 relics together, the world ends. And he knows now that she is imortal, so he understandably thinks the world didn't have a chance at permanently defeating her. But if penny opens the vault for him and he uses the staff to raise atlas high enough in the atmosphere that no-one can get to them, it at least assures that the people there can survive and humanity can survive in some fashon. I don't agree that it's the right thing to do. But if you believe that the ends justifies the means, I can see how it can be argued. The needs of the manny over the needs of the few.

[@Tangential101]

But what proof does he have that Salem can't just use magic to either teleport up to Atlas with a bunch of Grimm (or even alone because she could kill everyone up there one by one and there is no permanently stopping her) and then seize the Staff? Ironwood is running away. He's pretending it's for the good of humanity but it's because he's *scared*.

[@mojoe992]

@@Tangential101 I suppose it's possible Salem could do that but there's no evidence to suggest she can. Also ironwood is human, as hard as he might try it's impossible to think of every out come. But your right. He's clearly acting on fear and the amount of stress he's facing is causing a mental decline that on top of his semblance is pushing to make drastic measures.

[@blackvial]

@@Tangential101 what proof do you have that she can teleport?

[@Tangential101]

@@blackvial What proof do we have she cannot? We already have seen Teleportation Semblances. Salem is a millennia-old sorceress from a time when magic use was commonplace and people were trained in it. She even comes back from the dead (which isn't *magic* but as far as Ironwood is concerned, the two people he knows who uses magic can come back from the dead, and the Maiden power likewise ignores death). So Ironwood has no idea that hiding at the edge of space will keep Atlas safe. If anything, it will isolate Atlas from the world, and make it easier pickings as no allies could come to their aid (as what could have happened if Ironwood had gotten Amity up and running). What he is *doing* is running away. He's too proud to admit it though. Ozpin recruited Ironwood and asked him to keep the Staff of Creation safe. He did not ask Ironwood to start using it to isolate Atlas from the world. When he was called out on that by Ozpin's heir, he *shot* him. Oscar was no threat. He was not trying to fight. He was talking. And Ironwood just tried to murder him without hesitation. He is not and *has not* been a good person. People claiming he is mischaracterized and suffering from poor writing are just glorifying him like they did to Adam Taurus. The road to hell that James Ironwood paved has been laid brick by brick through the show starting from the moment we first met him. That he has doubled down on the path of genocide is not surprising - he never considered Mantle to be worth saving in the first case.

[@doctorrickb]

The scars Nora has are called Lichtenberg figures. Apparently that's a real thing if you got too much electricity running through you.

[@jameswilliams7873]

Watts semblance is roasting the heck out of people

[@TheDarkliesra222]

When your shirt matches the show. Lol. Yep its soooo over for James. Can we see either Cinder or Qrow end this guy? Like seriously.

[@WilliamBowles]

Yo Ironwood. The ships are already on their way to save Mantle. Instead of destroying them to use the citizens as leverage to blackmail penny into helping you, here's an idea: Let those ships bring all of Mantle up to Atlas, redeeming yourself, and then have Penny access the staff because we're all back on the same page.

[@otakuwolf4ever985]

Watts just dropped the Truth Bombs right on Cinder's head.

[@puncakesop2805]

17:40 i love how u can hear the cat sniffing the mic lmao

[@Hoontor]

Fear.jpeg is a good one. also at least you Hair didn't pull a v7 Blake. Mantle went to the crater, Atlas got the floating islandsubway leftovers. Grimm arm lifts. Will Ruby need more Therapy than Steven Universe? find out next time on "Ironwood is bonkers".

[@marinadiaz1762]

14:49 Okay but the background music was dope in this scene

[@zaandarbrow]

17:29 iron wood comes on "but mein fuhrer dont blow up the ships" xD

[@The_Calvary]

I love that bit with watts and cinder. He’s 100% right