Purity Culture: Tough Questions with Dr. Jennifer Konzen

[@monikaalvarez3247]

Ok, I am going to put myself out there! Please excuse me as I fumble my way through this. First, what a healthy and spiritual conversation! FINALLY, someone is addressing this. THANK YOU! I have been talking about this since 2003. No one has listened. Dismissed! My hope is that this too does not fall on deaf ears. Dr. Konzen, thank you for first acknowledging that you did not realize this was going on and that this is a WORLDWIDE singles culture in all of our churches. Second, correct, I never understood why married people are considered the experts to talk to singles in this day and age. The singles ministry of today is not the singles ministry of the past (too long to go into now). Thank you for calling us a family, it's difficult to tell these days all of our ministries are so siloed unlike what we see in the bible. We need to STOP THE WEIRDNESS! Yes, we are sexual beings, this is a part of attraction, but part of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control (Gal 5:22-23). We should not be shamed into submission. People in the church really need to stop connecting singleness to sexuality, we are ALL sexual beings. Kyle, WOW! thank you for YOUR vulnerability as a Christian man and leader! Really, THIS is the kind of openness we need to have in God's church! THAT is what real family does with one another. Kyle, true, no one wants to be in the singles ministry. Why is that? It is a stigma created not by singles but by other people in the church. Just building friendships in the church with the opposite sex is weird because of what we have been taught these rigid rules in the church. I have been a disciple of Jesus for 29 years. My life is not about wanting to get married; my life is about relationships with brothers and sisters. I believe a lot of singles feel this way, but it is difficult to build friendships when everyone is separated into different ministries, men, women, young, old, married, campus. How are we to learn and help one another and be a light to this world when we don't truly love one another (John 13:34-35)? Third, regarding modesty. I believe we should call each other to be modest, but here's the thing I only hear about it happening with singles, take a look around your ministry and see how many married women are showing cleavage and wearing tight skirts. It is great to address all these things, but we need to address it as a family. This does not involve single people alone. Like Kyle said, be all things to all people. Looking forward to seeing Gods continued hand in this, Dr. Kozen, hint hint wink wink! 😊❤

[@TruthTraumaTheology]

Monika, thank you for being specific and honest about your experience, I’m sure there are others who can relate. I really hope that we can continue to lift up our singles as they are essential to the church.

[@CRuss-dt4sj]

I appreciate this conversation. Growing up curvy I've experienced the worst treatment...there was alot of shame and guilt. When I became a disciple I thought it'd be different, but I used to often feel like because I'm curvy brothers avoided me so they wouldn't struggle with their purity. Imagine receiving unwanted attention in the world, then being avoided in church...it's difficult.

[@TruthTraumaTheology]

My heart definitely goes out to you, thank you for being vulnerable. Bring avoided is painful, I pray this changes for you and others.

[@robertcharette3514]

Coming from the other side of the fence: As a bit of background, I left the church in 2003 and was involved in the sex positive/alternative lifestyle community before getting married. I've had this rolling around in my head for about 18 years - one suggestion for teaching how to honor bodies would be to keep it simple and focus on identifying some of these things as self control. The idea would be to focus on parenting this idea with young men to consider how they view the person first vs. how they view the body first. Sort of a "same team" approach. Also, encouraging healthy platonic relationships to break down ministry barriers (while being realistic) to encourage communication.

[@avalonsimon1503]

Great discussion ☺️. Lots of takeaways. As a single older Christian of colour, who has served in leadership roles, this was very relevant. Sanctified vs sanitised; race and body shape and body shaming; rules vs teaching; grace and leadership. All opportunities to have deeper conversations and healing. Thanks for sharing.

[@aarich119]

Holy Spirit meeting needs, this has resonated in my heart, its great to see the Spirit move to address long term mature singles 🔥🔥🔥💖💖💖God loves all demographics, as the widows were overlooked God invoked the apostles to act. Well done.

[@LoratoPhefo]

I appreciate this podcast so much. Funny enough everytime Jennifer says male body parts it’s so cringy. it’s so weird to my ear because it’s so unusual 😂😂😂😂. But I’m soooo glad this podcast was recommended to me when it was. It has helped me so much. This and part 1. It’s so freeing to start embracing parts of me that have been in bondage for so long 🤩🤩. Thank you so much 🙌🏿🙌🏿

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Personally, I can say that I would REALLY appreciate and TOTALLY be open to other sisters, especially married women, asking me about my sexuality. I expressed this to one of the married women with which I have a very close relationship. I love and respect her so much. She responded by saying she would feel like initiating with a single woman and inquiring about her sexuality would be inappropriate and possibly lead a single woman to struggle with impurity. I can totally understand why she feels that way. She also said she does not worry about me because I am someone who is intentional about taking care of my heart and she knows I will talk about what is causing me to struggle. This includes struggles with impurity. The thing is, deep down I just wish for those inquiries to be on the hearts of my sisters and for them to feel like it is not out of line to ask me about my sexuality. I crave their wisdom, advice, and empathy for the fight to be single for what I consider a LONG time.

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Thank you so much for speaking directly to the Singles!

[@TruthTraumaTheology]

ShaJuanda my sister!! I appreciate your excitement about this topic. I definitely hope this meets a need for people.

[@victoriale2433]

Wow wow wow! So many 🤯🤯🤯 moments! First, Kyle, THANK YOU for your vulnerability in sharing your experience ❤️ I’m so glad that as you bring healing to so many, that you yourself also find it! God’s grace is incredible! Second, Jennifer’s approach to addressing modesty with 1 Cor 12 and the illustration of protecting the Queen’s jewels was fire! I love that- teaching the heart to honor and steward vs. what to do/not to do/shaming. Honestly, fewer conversations make more ANXIOUS and uncomfortable than addressing modesty. I hate it! This conversation gave me so much to meditate on as I reevaluate going forward how I want to approach modesty with others. Lastly, THANK YOU for your both/and approach with leaders and trying to extend grace ❤️ It’s been particularly healing for me as a leader to hear your perspective and encouragement. These past two years have tested all of us like no other, and it’s painful to feel judgment from people who don’t really know me but know that I’m a church leader 😢 We ALL need grace and the opportunity to be given the benefit of the doubt. It’s not easy, but so necessary to love like Jesus. So thank you, brother!! 💞

[@samanthawhitacre4879]

Sanitized is not the same as sanctified. Amen

[@lisajohnson4744]

“My love for Jesus will cause me to make a right decision over that cup of coffee.” YES!!! Thank you for acknowledging that we DO love Jesus and want to honor Him in all aspects of life! And … wonderful conversation. I have a lot to think on! ❤️

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Amen! I will fight in prayer to give, from my heart, grace to my hardworking leaders in Christ. With my whole heart I really do believe that most leaders, and most people for that matter, really are doing the best they can to love and shepherd as Christ would love and shepherd.

[@ginag7844]

This is so good thank you. I think of “giving into sensuality” or “Lovers of pleasure rather than God.” When tempted to justify it. I love your notion that instead of engaging in a sexual behavior we can address a need that is not being met. Amazing. It’s true there are other ways of dealing with stress like dancing etc. Thank you for your vulnerability. I am so thankful for our leaders who are open and have already started these discussions.

[@HolyandConnected]

Thank you for bringing up the leadership! Grace should be extended. We’re all learning.

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Thank you so much for your encouragement to regard and honor our bodies as beautiful and something to be celebrated in the way people regard and honor man made jewels!

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Dr. Konzen, I love what you said about learning what to do with arousal responses.

[@Alize818]

Thank you so much for talking about these things & bringing it to the light!

[@Marinapro2]

Really appreciate the topic! So needed!

[@danmaxwell8520]

Thank you both. This is such a helpful and validating podcast. I’ve watched it more than once over the last few months & have shared it with others. Jen, I would like access to the article you mentioned regarding black women & body image associated with the historical, institutional inertia that has been absorbed into so many areas in our society here In the US & honestly around the world for many women of color. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[@lorihalesgirls]

This lesson is phenomenal! Thank you so much!!

[@theresaclark7075]

Both|and = healing 👏🏽

[@lkmurphy3637]

THANK YOU!!! This entire discussion was so amazing and absolutely needed.

[@UltimateChallengeKit]

17:53 great, time to play I Spy to find it in the background. In all seriousness, thank you for continuing to talk about this.

[@ashtoncooper6967]

Great conversation! I wish I learned or heard things like this early on my discipleship and as a single brother. I’m super grateful for it now and I’m definitely going to share. 🙏🏾

[@GamesNMusic116]

We need more! 😅 Very healthy discussion. Thanks bro.

[@carolannmendez4422]

Love this! Open, honest conversation done with respect and much thoughtfulness. Thank you for being a light on the hill in these tough-to-talk-about areas...keep them coming. :)

[@dianefrisone5998]

Thank you Jen and Kyle, we need to hear this!!

[@WilliamHopkinsPlus]

Thank you both for this. It's making me think about how to talk to my kids about purity and sexuallity. Particularly how the body is designed to respond in certain ways and what do with arousal.

[@khkan]

Highlights: 5:00 Single women 25:00 Masturbation 26:00 False research about sex 28:00 Renewing our minds 28:40 God uses our physical bodies to help us to be aware of spiritual needs 30:00 Body shape

[@moniquefuge4820]

Really need this conversation for my Kingdom Kid Teens now Baptized, and specifically teens that have been exposed at schools, youth exploration, and trauma. Hard to teach this at every stage as a busy parent. Conversation and reading what’s appropriate Touch. Book clubs for Discipled Youth? For example, ADHD kids that have sexual arousal, but seem to be Hyper sexual early as a child? Really honing in on “Boundaries”, I love that book for Teens. My kids aren’t big readers, but are social so they love their group D-Times. There’s counseling, but it’s hard to find specific counselors at each stage for our Disciple Teens. Thank you. I’m sharing this with my teens who are Disciples and who are studying and undergoing counseling. So we can have conversation. Also, I’m glad you are speaking on orgasm bc I as a married hadn’t discovered a lot of my orgasm even after I had tons of sexual trauma and experiences, not till after married for a while, and when I did discover the my “Big- O” orgasm, this research isn’t available. It’s too new, it’s only at Conversation levels. We need this conversation in church specifically when going from single to married in our marriage counseling sessions. Need a whole Playlist created for our Kingdom Kids with a Book List for Discussion groups. So hard to communicate and have these conversations when you as a parent hadn’t taken the necessary classes, read the necessary books, struggling yourself and hadn’t yet arrived enough, to come to an understanding of that topic to communicate it to your children.

[@moniquefuge4820]

I didn’t want to mention it but specifically, there is not enough research about the “clitorous” not sure if it was appropriate on this channel, hint the Title, so I’m trying to speak discreetly in a reply. Bc as a married, it have to be the appropriate educational setting before I will talk about sex with another same sex peer single. This topic was shared to me by a single bc I hadn’t found purity talks or groups for married women. Just married men and campus have these groups. I struggled in my marriage bc I bum rushed a leader during a very desperate time and they couldn’t refer me to anyone immediately or hear me out at the time. I shut- down and didn’t speak to anyone since I struggled with openness and vulnerability. I usually like to watch Ted Talks and books referred to me. I’ve also now have a leader who has counseling background and is providing tons or resources.

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

I'm so so excited for this discussion!

[@TheSliim89]

I really appreciate all of this

[@eunicecatuogno9901]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!! I think I have no other words…….🤓

[@moniquefuge4820]

Amen, about “are we making women be the gatekeepers of mens purity” I had a hard time with dressing bc of my curves as I became a teen etc. There’s trends, but then there’s regular Jeans, so my Antie was trying to dress me in Suits. Yo! Not my style! To spend tons of money i didn’t have in the 1990’s amongst a hip-hop baggy clothes age. I was broke so I was very creative with my dress shopping at 2nd hand stores. I just chose to wear really baggie clothes instead. But, men are truly trying to bounce their eyes a ton so to help them not struggle. “ she’s hearing it from the world, she’s hearing it from her community, she’s hearing it from her church”. “Ok, that is what it is, my body is fearfully and wonderfully made. Ok, I acknowledge I feel, (therefore I AM, but am I? Based on my feelings!) How ‘bout i steward it.” “Sanitized doesn’t mean pure and clean. The Father must make it clean though he’s inviting us into his holiness with Sanctification.”

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Wow! I never realized that the two people to speak most about sexuality are Jesus and Paul!! Two single people!

[@moniquefuge4820]

Regarding the touch with Teens and kids you had mentioned, at camp had noticed extreme amount of same sex touching and holding each other in laps from one set of teens. I was asked by the opposite sex counselors to intercede since we shared the same sex. We have Strict Rules at Church Camps of keeping a distance from opposite sex cabins. Etc. “Boundaries” book vs. prescriptive topic is good to cover at camp and leadership and parenting nation and world wide.

[@angelvasquez8280]

Job 2:13 "And they sat with him on the ground seven days and seven nights, and no one spoke a word to him, for they saw that his suffering was very great." Job's Friends actually started off great! But then things changed as we all are aware of the story.

[@ThatGirl912]

100% No diagnosing, no blame-shifting, just moral support. Wisest first response to complex trauma.

[@r.walker7986]

if you get into the habit of trying to re-route natural sexual responses to stimuli, do not be surprised if down the line it does not work right even if its your personal ideal situation. Sex is mental and physical and we can choose to frame it spiritually but the reality is people are not praying up orgasms.

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

The following phrase was used a few times: "Anything less than 2, anything more than 2." I have never heard that before. What does it mean?

[@TruthTraumaTheology]

That’s funny my wife didn’t understand what I meant by it either! What I mean is anything more than a man and a woman and anything less than a man and a woman is going to fall short and miss the mark.

[@rma326]

Thanks for clarifying this!! I wasn’t sure either

[@dimong907]

Thanks... many, including myself wouldnt know what that mean because he never said 2 "what"

[@shajuandacampbell1008]

Come on, SDC!

[@Riley24513]

🙌❤️🙏❤️