How NOT To Learn A Fighting Game

[@lolwhat19]

Combo trials remind me of that infamous "Techniques on how to punch and strike fast Method One" video and its comment: "What if my opponent has arms?"

[@Imanifestchaos]

Yeah the art of throwing attacks is different on the art of how to use those said attacks in a fight

[@TheGhost0312]

Yeah, I train box and I could compare the learning all the punches and how to throw them to learning to do all the notes on an instrument. You'll need them of course, but by themselves they don't do much. Now, learning how to use the punches when the openings show up, while moving and defending against a real opponent, that's when the real learning of the art starts. Just like when you start to learn how to make music with the notes you learned.

[@skierrybo]

Fr

[@smolltaco5667]

Those comments are only funny when they are genuine, nowadays you see all the same people trying to be funny and it just got boring

[@33korki77]

Everyone is wired differently. Personally i find it better to know my moves then figure out how to use them. Rather than fighting blind.

[@keithlee1007]

Personally I find that I spend some time doing some of the xrd combo trials and end up forgetting the combos afterwards. I can literally think of one combo that I remember how to do

[@qmanchu]

Yeah, Xrd trials are a whole other beast

[@Iwatoda_Dorm]

I find myself to be more interested in flashy inefficient combos and experimenting so the best thing I get from combo trials starting off is actually what moves pair well with which. It gives me a sense of direction to where my fingers should travel to next on my controller and opens up another route I would have never thought before. I think combo trials and tutorials in general sets a good basis for mechanics everyone should understand about the game from the developers point of view, instead of being muddled or confused in conversations. It's better to have the clearest and most composed answers about your character and mechanics in-game instead of having to look around for resources.

[@LeatherBacon]

I think it's really important to immediately try something you've just learned in a real scenario in order to establish it. So possibly instead just running through the trials, do one & go into training or a match & try to accomplish that said combo specifically

[@Foodie-MS-08th]

I can think of a couple Sin's far slash rc confirm combo is good and most of Slayer's combos are optimal too.

[@itsteej5304]

You just have to practice and make it memory

[@thepaperwarior]

This is one of those things that once made me believe that I could never really be good at fighting games. If part of winning is doing this specific series of inputs on command, and I have to try for half an hour to do it once successfully, staring at the list on the side, then obviously I'll always lose to a player who can do it reliably, right? Which, presumably, is everyone "serious" about it. But I can play fighting games. I can make decisions, react, plan things on the fly, and predict what my opponent is doing. As I get comfortable with a character, I start stringing moves together as well. Playing matches is fun and educational. A combo trial will just tell me I'm wrong. Crap, gotta start over again!

[@snickey3483]

Wow that was oddly beautiful.

[@_zealos_8213]

Woah, maybe I might have this problem without realizing it. I did "grow up" with combo trials, but now I've noticed I shut down if the specific conditions to pull off a combo isn't presenting itself, or worse my opponent literally never lets it happen. I'm gonna start just playing the game to learn it instead of thinking I need super specific combos. Cuz a sad truth of mine is that I only ever play the trials for fighting games now instead of fighting online...

[@ReverendLeRoux]

A combo trial is good for one thing and one thing only. Proving that a particular combo is possible. Possible, but not necessarily feasible.

[@AndreasSaag]

This is why i love smash bros, combos come naturally they’re not a necessity

[@yearoldsinger]

@@_zealos_8213within any fighting game I’ve found it’s best to just play for awhile before you start training just to get a feel of the gameplay/characters/stages etc. good game sense without specific combos will take you further than combos with no game sense will, it isn’t until you start facing players with both game sense and combos that it starts to really matter

[@IrrelevantJohn]

There’s one thing I noticed with my friends who are new to fgs do in combo trials. They tend to not even look at the characters themselves and just hit the direction and buttons on the list as it scrolls down. It’s such an odd thing because they can finish most of the trials but they never remember them because they kinda don’t know how it looks in a real match because they are too busy staring at the combo list lol.

[@qmanchu]

Bro yes this! I do this when breezing through trials and it's such a bad habit for understanding anything. I wish I remembered this while making the video cuz it's actually the biggest problem I have with that first Kyo combo. His rekka is so layered and many moves share parts of the animations, but if you were to just use the in game resources to make sense of it, it would take days

[@CurlyHairedRogue]

I mean… what are we supposed to be paying attention to? We don’t have a clue what the strategy looks like. The stats are hidden most of the time, there aren’t items, or weapons, or short-term goals realized over the course of a game, at least as far as we recognize them. So… what are we meant to look at? Is how long a punch is supposed to be particularly impactful when most of the moves look… basically the same without the context of what a fighting game’s mechanics actually are? I’m not saying this to be inflammatory. I genuinely don’t know where to look, here. I’ve been trying to get into the genre on and off for about a decade now, and recently I just kinda went cold on them, convinced there really isn’t any depth accessible to me here. I would love to be proven wrong.

[@qmanchu]

@@CurlyHairedRogue Nah I hear you, it's kind of an issue with the design. Like with counter hits in most games just looking like normal hits. Realistically, you should be able to look and tell the difference. Lots of games are fixing things like that to be more accessible. In sports, I did track and Long jump was my best event. The thing that changed my approach to it the most was when my coach told me to not look at the line. I've practiced my approach hundreds of times, I should know where my feet are. Therefore, I shouldn't need to look at the line. Looking there directs my attention from what I'm actually trying to do, which is jump further. Combo trials should help us achieve the same effect. Your attention shouldnt be on the text on the side, it should be on the character to see what they're doing and truly absorb it. But that takes time, and practice as well as some understanding of the game itself. I wish I could say more to answer your question but YT comments just arent the place

[@qmanchu]

@Sasha Lemay whoa I love this analogy! That's a great way to put it. This was obviously something you've thought about a good amount lol. Thanks for sharing this and I might use this analogy in the future with your permission (and you'll be credited lol)

[@Caleb-zl4wk]

​@@CurlyHairedRogue Oh I've been in the same spot as you for years before. What fixed it for me was realizing that the people who make these videos don't understand my style of learning and were inspired to "play the game" rather than my "do cool stuff in the game". So when I lab out an optimal combo, and I get joy from that, they go "no no no bad bad bad not in match" and then I try a match and don't have fun, because... I don't enjoy mind games and footsies and whiff punishes and jump ins and empty jump throws and fuzzy overhead mixups- I enjoy hitting my opponent with 2A in whatever anime game I'm playing and dealing a sh*t ton of damage because I got it like that and they just don't 😂.

[@arlwiss5110]

i like seeing that people are interested in improving the state of things for absolute beginners

[@SoulHero7]

This is why the Lesson Mode in Rival Schools for the PS1 is a stellar fighting game tutorial: It doesn't make you learn combos specific to each character, it makes you learn the core fundamentals of how fighting games work. And it's all broken down into easy to digest sections built for learning. There's 6 Lessons with 5 sections in each lesson, built around a core theme. For example, Lesson 1 is built around basic movement and attacks, while Lesson 2 is built around defense and recovery options. However, instead of assuming you've mastered an input after you do it once, you can't clear a section until you complete 10 inputs that the game tells you to do, stressing repetition and ingraining how the moves look and feel to the player. There's usually multiple actions in a section as well, like Light and Heavy attacks in the same section, and the game tells you how to perform each action before the section starts. Furthermore, each section is graded based on how fast you complete it, how fast your reaction time is to the commands, and how accurate your moves are. You won't get an S rank for a section until you're able to pull off these basic moves by sheer instinct, which is the speed and precision you need for an actual fight, and the game shows where and how you need to improve on each section. And the final section of each Lesson is a final exam where you have to do 10 *random* inputs that were already taught to you by the rest of the Lesson. These final exams are still graded, and test just how well you've instinctually mastered the moves in each Lesson. All of the Lessons build off of each other as well. Mastering basic movement and attacks in Lesson 1 gives you the framework to learn defensive options in Lesson 2, then basic combos in Lesson 3 after mastering defense, which naturally leads to Supers and Counterattacks in Lesson 4. And this means in Lesson 5 when the game asks you to do Counter into Super, you've already mastered each individal step of that process by itself, you just have to put it all together for what the game wants. All the sections in Lesson 6 are built to cover everything you've already learned, but with randomized commands per section so you have to quickly react to what the CPU is doing with the appropiate action. And finally the last part of Lesson 6 isn't a tutorial at all, it's a Combo Lab: Deal 30 hits to the CPU as fast as possible. You're free to do whatever you want here, the game doesn't care how you do it, but it's *still grading you*, so you're finally free to go creative mode on the CPU until you've mastered your own style now that you've mastered all the fundamentals. Lesson Mode touches all the points you made with the other sucessful fighting game tutorials you mentioned, and I've basically been spoiled by it when picking up new fighting games since I haven't found something that comes close to how well Rival Schools did it's tutorial. tldr: You're right, fighting game tutorials can do better, they have done better, and should do better.

[@qmanchu]

The weirdest part about these modes to me is, as you've said, so many games have gotten it right. And even if they didn't they were closer than a lot of games out today.

[@dazai2734]

Having a combo tutorial made specifically for a character is fine cus it helps u see what the character has to offer. I think they should jus take away the combo inputs once u start doing the combo to force u to actually learn it. U fuk up and reset, its back on ur screen so u can look it over again, u start it again and it goes away so ur focused on actually looking at the people

[@brotbrotsen1100]

In the last blazblue game you also had individual tutorials for characters which teached you what the character is all about.

[@johnanr]

I remember teaching my brother sf3, I had him do the oe trials and even though Akumas trials are easy, he couldn't use it in game. He started getting alot better when I told him to stick to cr:medium>short tastu>fierce dp. Once he learned his opening he instantly got better.

[@qmanchu]

Keeping it simple will always be king in fighting games

[@Bleach_Drinker_7]

that was actually my first sf combo. I still have it baked into my muscle memory

[@aplomBomb]

holy cow I've never seen a guilty gear game in action before, the art is AMAZING

[@qmanchu]

Oh yeah my friend. Highly recommend you check out some more. It's visually stunning all around.

[@Kono_Dio-Da]

Thats why I think Strive's tutorial is so good, because it actually makes an effort to teach you when certain moves are useful. The move list also comes with accurate descriptions and a video showing how it works

[@SrGundisalvus]

I'm not usualy a fighting game player and the tutorial from gg strive really is so good! From a total noob it's really cool to get the hand on, I still suck at the game but at least I can get into it and understand a character with it

[@mechadeka]

It mentions that throws can be avoided simply by jumping and I think that's the only official fighting game tutorial I've ever seen say that.

[@ChimericWhite]

There is one major gripe I have with the Strive tutorials, and it's that they are not unlimited attempts. You only get 5 attempts and you're required to have 3 correct to pass. I'd much rather prefer unlimited attempts, but with the requirement that you can not move past until you can succeed a set number of times. A game should not force a fail condition upon you in the tutorials. I enjoy BlazBlue's tutorials the most for this. For example, the blocking tutorials will require you to successfully block attacks 3 times. You are not graded, you can not fail, but you will clear the current tutorial after successfully blocking 3 times.

[@sylvanadvocate1858]

I agree so much with the message of this. Too often I go in the combo trials or look up combos for characters online and wonder "why do I do that move specifically?" It's a big issue that needs to be worked on and solved, and you did an excellent job bringing that exact issue to light

[@1tubax]

thats why I found 3 things to be key to get better at fgs. 1: You need to watch games of players better than you, with commentary. 2: You should have someone who is capable of telling you what you are doing wrong, so joining a community for X game is vital if you want to get better. 3: You should be consistent with your practice. You cannot practice combos/blockstrings for one day then expect to pull it off in a real game. You can either try to practice them with a real player (sparring partner) who is playing semi seriously for one day, which will engrain them in your head, or practice them consistently in practice mode for days in different situations from different angles. Doing all of these will undoubtedly help you understand why players do something, as 1 will show you how its demonstrated properly with minimal flaws, similar to how you would want to learn a language from a native speaker; 2 would help you with comparing your bad habits and incorrect execution to the ideal scenario; and 3 helps to apply everything in different scenarios and patterns and/or under pressure.

[@rookbranwen8047]

When I use combo trials I am rarely trying to learn the combo being taught and more often trying to learn the mechanics of how a character combos. Sometimes I learn things about a characters moves that I wouldn't have realized otherwise. Going through the trials helps me not only get a feel for how certain moves link together, but also can act as a jumping off point for experimentation and optimization. For example I try using different moves in the combo or change their order to see if the combo still works and if it changes the damage. Lastly once I know a combo with a character I have a goal that I can build my game plan around. After all I can't start a combo if I can't land a hit whether it be in neutral or while pressuring, and even if I do land a hit I need to be able to hit confirm.

[@qmanchu]

And that's great! I said it in the video and maybe I should've been a bit clearer but this video is mostly about the experience of newer players to a game. From how you talk about trials, you've played a few different kinds of FGs and understand how to break them down by components like links, juggles, and you're aware of the weight system mechanics have. New players don't have most of that and they're concerned with just the first steps of what you described. That's why I'm challenging us to change our perspective because I think it'll help us help new players

[@SoulBro12]

Literally me after I understood how Counter hits and J2K as Slayer in GGXrd.

[@nathanaeljames3059]

I like combo trials because it gives you a basis on what’s useable and how it feels. I do think people move on too quickly on trials though. Ideally combos should be able to be done without looking at the move list and at least 4 times in a row on both sides. Atleast for me, this keeps me from face rolling when shit hits the fan.

[@JohnPaul-nb5iu]

​@@nathanaeljames3059 that's a good idea

[@33korki77]

I play ggst for the first time and one of the best things ive done is go into training mode with my character and just look at the command list and try to expirement with as many combos as i could come up with. I didnt come up with much but when i did actually practice real combos i immediately started putting pieces together lol.

[@FiniteMan1933]

I remember when I first played Tekken 7 last year(last tekken I played 6 and I only did the arcade) and decided to play Steve because I started boxing in that same year. I went in trial mode and learned the albatross and fought the CPU for one fight after that I played my friend who has around 2-3 years more experience in tekken against other players. I didnt even know how to block yet I was already facing the best player I knew, safe to say with no idea how to block I got my shit ROCKED. We played 10 games and I lost all of them but on the 11 game I FINALLY beat him and was so proud I took a photo of the 1-10 scoreboard. I've played so many fighting games but never against real players(or players vastly more skilled than me) and I've never felt so intimately connected and dedicated to a character more than I have in those 11 games with Steve Fox.

[@mugensennin]

I'm a fan of making my own combos as well as learning my opponent's style of approach. Trials help but definitely a tool instead of a way of life. Get in their heads and have fun no matter what 🎉

[@IanMyDude]

I agree that combo trials definitely aren’t perfect, but one thing I really like about the combo trials I’ve done is how they show the building blocks of a character’s/the system’s combos. As an example, when I (somewhat) recently tried out enchantress from dnf duel, the game made me do a lot of small, easy to hit combos. But as the trials went on, I saw those same combos in the context of longer ones, giving me insight on a lot of her combo tools at once and how they interact with one another. Her combos also explored the use of microdashes for both combo consistency and screen positioning in a fairly understated way that made me feel accomplished when I noticed and incorporated it. Combo trials like this make for a good jumping off point as long as you engage with them correctly. An experienced player especially should not look at these combos as optimal ways to damage the opponent, nor should they look at it as simple busy work before they look up their character’s optimal routes. Instead, if they take time to assess why the game is making them do certain combos along with the nuances to how they’re done, I think they can get a more intimate experience with the game/character than if they went on dustloop and copied down every combo there. As a note, I have been playing fgs for a long time at this point, so I’m not sure how a beginner feels about combo trials or what they take away from it. But like you said in the video, as long as the game gives a breadth of trials in various contexts with sufficient feedback, I think everyone can win in terms of learning from combo trials.

[@pigsplayinggames]

Dnf combo trials are also just really good across the board

[@yukitadano5098]

I am a beginner and I had the same experience with DNF combo trials where it felt like they were showing me how to piece together combos

[@AirventOS]

I always liked combo trials. For me, it's fun to do the execution challenge to fill a page. When I was a beginner, I used the combo trials to work on my execution. They're probably the least stressful thing to do in a fighting game. You have infinite time to do cool stuff. It's hard for a beginner to do that through normal gameplay. In fact, some games I only play for the combo trials. I really dislike Under Night, but the combos are so flashy and fun I sometimes boot up the game to continue my progress. Some games do have challenging combos that feel awesome to beat. XRD has ton of unique characters I wouldn't want to play outside of combo mode.

[@qmanchu]

Combo Trials mode is awesome for all the reasons you listed. I love them too. I think they're really only problematic for those who try to learn the game through them

[@Bovaz85]

Back when I was trying (and failing) to learn street fighter 4, I was doing the combo trials to get my execution down. An issue was I often had to search for videos on how to "beat" the trials, because the game hadn't explained to me what could cancel and how/when. My previous fighting game experience was mashing in sf2 on the Mega Drive as a child, so I had no clue canceling was even an option, and I was just trying to press everything in order.

[@qmanchu]

@Matteo Piovanelli oh boy. SF4 trials were certainly not for learning the game, I'll tell you that much lol. Those were messed up

[@yusuf8938]

I still go back to UMVC3 combo trials. Tons of fun imo

[@343ishill]

This is how I felt learning combos in Dbfz / Tekken 7. Once I entered a match I realized, I didn't know any blockstrings, safe pokes, etc. I would freeze up and default to mashing, due to not understanding the fundamental contexts.

[@TheDocbach]

Block strings aren't really a deal in Tekken 7 like they are in DBFZ. But I will agree that Tekken can train you wrong in so many different ways. I blame it mostly on treasure battle. The computer is so stupid that it will let you get away with the chunkiest damaging moves you can do with little to no feedback or retaliation or block punishment. And for a game that is fundamentally more about defense than any other besides SC 6, that is just terrible.

[@lordmoncef5494]

Bruh u just said u only learned to do combos of course u would suck fighting games isn t just doing combos

[@chrismaxie2864]

@@lordmoncef5494 I mean when ur first getting into a fighting game all u think u need is combos pretty common mistake

[@NihongoWakannai]

​@@lordmoncef5494 yes, and that's the problem. A noob doesn't know what they're "supposed" to learn, it's then job of the game to deliver a good turorial

[@HellNutcase]

@@NihongoWakannai You learn a combo, you go fight an AI a bunch of times to train it in a match and then you use them on real people. Problem solved.

[@Vengeful03]

As someone who doesnt really play fighting games or watches any content about them I was really suprised when I had your video "Whis is mexico so good at king of fighters" But I decided to watch it and really liked it and then saw this video as I thought it might be a good way to get interested in trying out fighting games and I was right, this video and the previous one I watched were really well done even in a way that someone with little knowledge on fighting games ore the community around them could understand and enjoy them. This video is almost 2 weeks old so idk if youre still looking at the comments but I am now pretty interested in trying out a 2d fighting game so I was wondering if anyone who sees this comment would be kind enough to recommend one for a new player, I would be playing on PC if that really affects anything like what games are even available to me or how active that platform is for multiplayer, I was thinking Guilty Gear Strive since the training was praised in the video and I like anime artstyles but I would still like to hear some peoples thoughts and also just wanted to mention how much I liked the two videos I watched and that youre doing a good job at spreading your love of fighting games to others :)

[@qmanchu]

I'd honestly say Street Fighter 6. It's kinda got everything and it'll be new so you'll be starting on equal grounds with a lot of people! It's also got solutions to many of the problems I listed in this video. That said, if you don't wanna pay full price for a new game, GGST is a decent place to start. It really depends on what you're more drawn to. If you want faster, air dashing style combat, or if you want slower, and more deliberate style combat. Both are great but I honestly would have to say SF6 is a better bet for level of entry AND longevity

[@Vengeful03]

@@qmanchu alright I’ll probably go with sf6 thanks for the reply and keep up the work I’ll definitely be looking forward to any videos you make on the game :)

[@qmanchu]

@Valducci Enterprises of course! I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! I hoped to reach people like yourself but it can be difficult

[@kiwirooks7299]

​@@Vengeful03 I personally learned a lot from Skullgirls. It's also cheap!

[@justanothermanontheinternet]

Mexico is also amazing at smash as well. There are 2 top 5 players from mexico rn and the region as whole is strong.

[@brianedwards7645]

I think that's why i took to platform fighters first at a high level instead of more conventional fighters. It felt organic, then the technical nature took over later

[@lesleyblackvelvet7647]

Same! Pretty much wanted to take up traditional fighters after playing Smash for countless hours and it kinda taught me a good chunk of the approach toward such games.

[@JacobBush16]

My first 2D fighter was MK11, which doesn’t have combo trials. Funny enough, it instead has some of the best explanations on how the game mechanics work together and how to build combos (*kombos). That and they added frame data, move types, descriptions, and a bunch of info in the move list section to actually help you the first time you play.

[@Riltea]

I never even knew combo trials existed. I just looked up one or two combos on the internet (which explained why I used each move) & figured out some of my own combos.

[@shadowraith10]

This reminds me of a moment in Blazblue Chronophantasma where I was learning Tsubaki Yayoi and one SPECIFIC combo was outdated due to changes to her frame data. So it was never able to be completed and because of that dissapointment, I actually gave up on the trials and in turn eventually, on her.

[@redlunatic2224]

I think the simplicity is also important. Most of the time I'm too preoccupied nailing the weird inputs in a combo trial to actually internalise how to apply it even if the game tells me. It leaves me with enough knoeledge to deal with average cpu, but only a surface level of understanding of actual strategies, so I don't get far in multiplier modes.

[@heyitsmort7744]

This is exactly how I’m learning Goldlewis. Finding the building blocks of his combos rather than looking for full, drawn out sequences

[@LaRanaArcade]

Cant stop watching your videos

[@qmanchu]

Haha glad you enjoy! I've got big stuff coming next month

[@nathang4682]

Nice video. I will say that with strive being my first fighting game, I still found the mission mode a little confusing. There is just so much information in there and it was hard to know what was important and what wasn't. For me it still feels like just finding a good YT tutorial to get you started on a character/game is the best way to start out which is weird and unfortunate that I have to go outside the game for help

[@qmanchu]

Yeah, the UI is also so messy it's hard to tell what you're even getting into when you jump in. I think as a proof of concept, it's great. But as it stands now, it confuses everyone haha

[@philcoast1031]

Strive is also my first fighting game, and I also had some trouble with the trials (I think I dropped them halfway through lol I might give them another try now). But I don't think searching for information/help outside of the game is a sign of failure of the game, not necessarily. The only things I would hold againt developers are tutorial/trials that teach bad habits to the player, or missing too much stuff. Players will find stuff that the devs missed, and couldn't have possibly added to the game's tutorial/trials before release. Or maybe a lesson will finally "click" on a player's head because of their favorite streamer did it. Personally, I love checking wikis of the games I play and then use that knowledge in-game. Fan content will a lot of times supply what the game doesn't, and in ways developers couldn't possibly do, it's simply how thing are.

[@nodnoh-2174]

This is crazy. I just had my 7 year old nephew try DBFZ combo trial. Let's just say it didn't go well 🤣

[@ololreyalple]

LET'S GO TRACKMANIA THE DETERMINISTIC RACING GAME Edit: he ended the video with THE song

[@hideharu-xiii8852]

I feel like Under Night 2 does combo trials very well. They’ll usually do the most optimized combos and stick with 1 to 2 combo routes to finish the string. Of course I look up other combos on KZbin that fgc peeps upload after, but I think the combo trails are at least a good way to start off with.

[@qmanchu]

Yeah Uni has always been a step ahead with how it uses trials tbh

[@weeniebagel5100]

hey, the Kyo combo you talked about at around 5:40 is pretty darn practical and serves as an effective teaching tool for getting players comfortable with dream cancels. Chaining one super into a larger super is something every character has access to, and while raw max mode activation may seem impossible to pull off at first glance, theyre always usable after you block a DP, giving you time for a max damage punish. kyo may have more optimal combos and sequences, but trials are a good way with getting someone comfortable with common strings in those combos and feeling the general routing out

[@qmanchu]

Oh no the issue with it being "practical" is the idea of landing a raw max mode 5 bar combo. It's a good combo to kind of show how max mode works and chaining supers, yeah. But the problem is, you're hardly ever gonna actually land something like this. Also, as a DP punish, in KOFXV, you've gotta moreso bait the DP than just block it and raw max on reaction. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but this kinda punish is 1/1000 rounds

[@doneedtoknow934]

@@qmanchu its 100/100 will happen if player has infinite MAX 😆

[@ckorp666]

if thats the case then like, why don't they have the trial start with you blocking a DP? same with ch trials - why dont they set the bot to jab after block and have you do a frametrap to get the counter? it's such a missed opportunity to connect a lot of different dots, esp for newer players. ppl shouldn't have to go to a random youtube comment to learn the context for the in-game tutorial, that's just bad teaching

[@lucas_lipp]

I just got Street Fighter 6 and started playing it. I did play a little bit of 5, but not much, and I very much suck at the game. After finisshing World Tour with modern controls, I went into character guides and combo trials to see if there's anything I like. I am awful at remembering combos in the moment, and I'm even worse at executing them, so I just tried to look for what seems like an easy follow up to some of my most used attacks, so that I can try to remember those in a practice room, where I can practise all of the inputs, which I'm not great at. I then went to fight some bots and just played the game, not worrying too much about combos, but still using the occasional follow up, and I enjoy this way more than trying to practise combos for hours on end.

[@cheesi]

The fact that SFV's old trials _aren't up to date with the game anymore_ really bugged me as a new player. They were the only ones I was capable of doing and they rewarded fight money so I thought it'd be a good idea to do them even if I picked up some bad habits, but it confused me so hard when I went into a match and couldn't get Balrog's down-up charge move to come out. I thought I was just bad at it but _actually_ the move uses a DP input now!

[@marzipancutter8144]

How difficult is it, really, to change them along with ongoing patches? I get that it is probably a lot of effort to reimplement a training sequence when something gets changed, but this stuff is also really important and shouldn't be neglected like that.

[@cheesi]

@@marzipancutter8144 Yeah, compared to all the work that goes into every patch, character, etc, it really doesn't seem like too much to ask for trials to be updated when inputs change and combos no lomger work :/ just one of those things that would make the new player experience that bit better!

[@Mietin]

I know the devs have a lot on their plate, and as i understand, most are doing great work on the mechanics, updates and patches. But as a new player really learning about how to "properly" get into fighting games, the idea that there is an outdated trial in any game where you learn a thing that actually doesn't work anymore, seems insane to me. 😐

[@Ocelot35]

I got good at a combo once, but then I started my first match on the other side of the screen, facing left. Oh lord, I had not considered that problem.

[@qmanchu]

I started doing practice mode in all my games on p2 side for this exact reason

[@deadchannel758]

This is awesome, bro invaded my feed with KOF, Trackmania, and a Korone clip. Absolute algorithmic godsend

[@deadchannel758]

Also, the outro theme does not go unappreciated 😂

[@CrashdummyX]

I've been playing fighting games at a competitive level for almost 20 years and combo trails have been an interesting topic for new players. Like you said, it's easy to forget a combo once in a match or the situation changes even slightly. Fundamentals should always be the first goal the game is trying to teach you, Stive does a great job at this. When it comes to trials or new combos, the best results I've had is repetition in training mode and then going straight into matches the with express intent to land that combo. This makes me figure out the best situation for the combo as well as performing it under non-ideal conditions. They sort of do that now with the "Now win this match with what you learned", but it doesn't force you use anything specifically. I think encouraging players leave the training room to try out what you learned and come back afterwards would be a great addition. Think of it like sparring, you need the knowledge on what to do (training/trials), but then you need the experience to apply what you've learned (fights). "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." sums up exactly what happens to players after learning something new.

[@qmanchu]

I couldn't really agree more. What I really would want trials to do is to spark curiosity and imagination, more than teach. You can't teach a new player EVERYTHING. But you can teach them how to learn your game. The issue is, most games just don't have great resources to learn with. Sometimes you just gotta eat 5 frame traps a game before you can understand what's happening

[@lolAvalanche]

Seems like the kind of thing a proper story mode might be able to do :p

[@NEETKitten]

This comment just gave me an idea. Would it be better if the combo trials were included in the training mode itself as something you can turn on at any time, instead of a separate mode? I think even just that'd go a long way to making them more useful as a learning tool.

[@ForceOfWill100]

Great explanation. I demo'd something similar to a friend of mine who was sick of losing to me, and blamed it on my ability to use combos (which he wasn't very good at). Basically I beat him only using basic non-directional attacks, simply because I played patient and punished anything unsafe, while only poking in neutral. Understanding game state (neutral, advantage, disadvantage) and how to flow between them is far more useful than drilling huge combos with difficult openers, and he actually improved a lot after that. Unfortunately this principle is one that few games actually teach in-game

[@princesssweepzzt5502]

I'm so happy to see the Granblue trials brought up here, I still believe they're the best character trials/ tutorial ever put in a fighting game, and even though I've been playing fighting games my whole life pretty much, I only really started to pick up on and understand the deeper and more competitive side of fighting games in a better way after playing through Granblue's trials!

[@frumiousgaming]

Truly excellent video including the debunking of the “learning styles” thing. Chefs kiss

[@greedsin555]

don't have to hit 623 brake just to deaccelerate either

[@qmanchu]

Lmao I love this analogy

[@greedsin555]

@@qmanchu TY :)

[@AnaDoMatoSA]

I really love how killer instinct combos learning work, you have fast medium and slow buttons, and special moves to put in between them to continue the combo, the game teaches you to change and use your attacks to not get combo breakers

[@lanedominanz3193]

for me, remembering combos works best if i can find some kind of rythm with the button presses

[@Gakki_Aniki]

Same i have to feel them

[@helix4048]

The only use I get out of combo trials are learning specific moves that are able to combo into each other, mainly in the beginner/intermediate combos. And even then, just watching a quick KZbin tutorial is more effective at doing that. However I feel that the only way you can truly learn how to play a fighting game is just through actually playing the game. I started playing strive and picked millia. I learned what her moves were, searched up a simple bnb then went straight to online. I got my ass beat for an entire week straight but I was not put down by this at all since I had the mindset that this was just part of the learning process. And it worked, over time I started dropping bad habits and learning new routes and blockstrings just from being put into scenarios so often. For example, “oh, I keep trying to airdash j.H in neutral and I always get punished, so maybe I should stop airdashing so much and use more lows”. I still wouldn’t call myself a good player but I’m a hell of a lot better than when I started, and I would probably have improved even more if my entire game’s network didn’t get blown up with Bridget’s patch and hasn’t been restored since. What I’m trying to say it, failure is the greatest teacher, and it improves you a hell of a lot more than if you spent 100 hours doing combo trials or watching KZbin tutorials

[@rawbertdogler]

good shit big dog. cant wait to see more from you. i do have to say that it was a very strange stylistic choice to not feature the audio from the tekken clip @2:33 but its minor in the grand scheme of things. also really liked the callback to trackmania. +1

[@qmanchu]

Lmao yeah it was more of a pacing thing. Total transparency, I cut the video down like 5 or 6 minutes because it felt too long. Very possible that I cut too much but hey, I'm still learning. Thanks for watching!

[@Jarasonic327]

Really glad strive has the player made combo trials that tell you what kind of scenarios to use certain combos in, it really helped my I-No improve, not by leaps and bounds or anything(coz I’ve more or less just stated learning her), but it did help me feel like I actually had options in certain scenarios

[@DoobooDomo]

I saw the chapter "Learning Styles" and thought "oh no" but you avoid the convenient lie. Love your stuff, keep it up, I hope SF6 accelerates your reach! Totally random: I've heard Skullgirls has good training/trial/learning modes.

[@qmanchu]

Skullgirls does do it very well! I looked into it for this video, TFH too. But I think they're so good they deserve their own video that I'll release in the coming weeks

[@SoulHero7]

@@qmanchu Really? If it's on the same level as Rival Schools I might pick that game up and learn it.

[@DeathScyther006]

I thought the learning styles section was not relevant to the discussion. If some games try to incorporate multiple so-called learning styles into their trials, I don’t see how that detracts anything regardless if it’s a false model of learning. Tekken using audio cues doesn’t make the combos harder to learn, for example.

[@qmanchu]

@DeathScyther006 I'm not saying necessarily that it detracts from what those trials do but rather, it's the reason so many trials and tutorials don't nail the Full Picture of actually teaching players what tools they need to succeed. Also to dispel the myth because many to this day still think it's true

[@jex-the-notebook-guy1002]

@@qmanchu except you didn't?...

[@TwinkleDobson]

combo trials are a good baseline to learn a game's mechanics, actual guides and knowing what's plus or minus on block is way more important once you have your character's moveset down

[@AsamiyaMouchou]

Great video, i'm playing fighting games since +30 years and i never play trials mode, or even training, i find the first anoying and boring and the latest useless unbearably boring, the first time i looked at a training mode and though it was well made was Skullgirl's one and every game took lessons from it, this game defenitely deserve more recognition imo. That behing said i totaly agree with everything things you said; it's definitely a great job you did here. Bravo, Merci and keep that shit up!

[@ctdxii8007]

This is some of the best grass roots produced information on fighting game trails and training material within games. Thank you!

[@qmanchu]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@cinnabarsin4288]

Not teaching the full range of mechanics is such a problem, if you don't teach how to use my full set of tools and open an opponent up (or even just get into attack range on them) then you're not even going to be able to try and use the combo for real. Definitely need to be teaching block strings, mix ups, and things that a normal person can actually react confirm to. There's got to be ways they can set up automated practice for these things if you can go in and record things to practice against, but of course you need to know what you're trying to practice to do that. I'm really interested to see how SF6's apparent approach to teaching the game through the single player content pans out and if it's successful. Fighting games do seem to have a problem with organic progression and being able to learn all the tech and nuance just by playing, maybe some of the ideas they showed for the single player will be a step in that direction. BTW Strive does have the same problem as SFV has where combo trials may be outdated and not work, it defaults to pulling up combos that may not be on the same version of the game unless you specifically toggle for that. I do wish Strive's tutorials also gave you some additional info on some of the really specific requirement tech, there's ones I never would have figured out why it wasn't working the way the game wanted (even while sometimes connecting) without seeking outside info.

[@MaymayMakesThings]

I'd just like to say that when I was starting to play fighting games seriously, combo trials usually taught me something cool about a character i.e "wow, if I hit them while crouched I can do this follow up" "wow, this ground bounces on counter" "so you can follow THAT up?" they were a useful learning tool to me then and I'll always defend them if done by the developers with the intent to showcase interactions a character can have BEFORE making it a huge technical challenge (maybe you make the last or two last trials an execution check)

[@Bluey610]

The way ive learned characters is by picking them up and using their basic moves and special moves and as i get more and more accustomed to that character i tend to see combos pop up on my own. Combo tutorials have always made me feel stupid

[@williamcalhoun883]

It always feels like most fighting game players kind of brush off NRS games, but I do gotta say that MK11's tutorials were really good, and it's training mode is 100% the gold standard of how a training mode should be in fighting games. Getting good at MK11 got me *really* good at other fighting games, and with my friends who are just getting into FGs, I always recommend learning MK11 or GG Strive bc they both have phenomenal new player experiences.

[@qmanchu]

MK11 blew me away with it's tutorials honestly. I didn't have too many questions after going through those lol

Great video! It's not just combo trials though. Fighting games on average do a terrible job of teaching how play. Heck, most of them don't even teach you the concept of frame advantage which is the core mechanic of the game. How can you expect to attract new players easily when you don't teach them the core mechanics of the game?

[@tylercafe1260]

Frame advantage is a lot harder for people to realize. Like atm I'm playing strive. The meaty I'm using get even more + when they block on wake up it. See if the game were to teach them it would say "Hey if you block this explosion move and run!" But the way I use it is they'll get jailed into another hit. So should the game tell them to sit there and block or to evade? It's never black and white answers. Which is why it's much much much harder to teach players. You especially don't want to mislead players which these trials can do because these games are way more complex then we emphasize. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3uahntuo8d1aas Like this clip is impossible to teach. It's literally impossible. If you can explain to me why EVERYONE needs to learn this GAME WINNING technique I'll trust you. But atm there's simply no answer that works.

[@qmanchu]

This clip is a great example of how abstract fighting games are. Like you mentioned using time as a resource, using your life as one is possibly even crazier to comprehend. Instead of trials trying to teach players about frame data and how to counter aegis, I'm proposing something like we've seen in SF6. The frame advantage bar they have is incredible but, if the game doesn't teach the players how to use it, then it might as well not be there. I'd hope for an in depth break down of what you can use it for, to hopefully get new players to use it to answer questions they'll naturally find during the game.

[@BlahBlahFreeman]

Because they exist with the concept that has remained inherent, just like this video mentioned that you'd expect to deal the most damage with your hardest hitting buttons but you shoudn't just mash those buttons; because that's so nonsensical even this video didn't even bother to explain why. You don't need to learn frame data to understand the importance of a jab, or light button. It's like asking how FPS games expect to attract new players when they don't teach them to not just run up and melee enemy players instead of engaging at the range whatever gun they're using is designed for. The game doesn't need to explain that sub machine guns are going to beat snipers in close range combat because that should be inherent, and you don't need to know how many frames it takes to aim down sight to comprehend it.

[@christophobia6415]

Even as a new player to fighting games, combo trials to me have always only been to get a feel for the vibe of a character or learn how their moves interact with each other, before going into free training and learning a regular BNB that works anywhere so i can spam it in real games. Combo trials, I feel, are mostly just there as a way for players to check out characters and their gimmicks in a more dynamic way.

[@saevus2686]

Unexpected Korone

[@madmaxiemartialartsnerd485]

my number one tip for teaching people new combos is you will see people try way to hard to learn multiple combos in one day. This simply does not work. Button combo trials are no different then playing keyboard WPM games, except its in a fighting game format. I find the real use in trials, is getting the user more familiar with how to do inputs and commands. So now how do we learn combos? Simple find a character you like, stick with them, then look 1 combo you can activate in neutral, then find 1 combo you can begin when landing a jump hit. If your new to fighting games, start small go for a 2-3 hit combo, after you master that one ask if there is any way to expand it, if no, do the same thing again but this time look up 4-5 hit combos. Once again the critical flaw I see in people approaching fighting games, is they go to a trial, or look up like 5-10 combos. Breeze through them then never remember them. The real reason your failing at learning how to practically apply them is because you stay in the lab. Experience out ways lab work in my opinon. Once you can reliably do a combo 10 times in a row in the lab your first reaction should be to go to a match and focus on that combo and look for opportunities where your opponent is exposed to it. Once you can reliably do the combo on multiple opponents in your skill level, regardless if you win or lose, you have mastered the combo and ready to learn a new one. If you are having trouble seeing those oppurtunities, look up pro players, and you will learn a lot in how they set things up.

[@YamiZee]

Often in combo trials, you have to learn multiple different combos for different situations. This is the reason why I started using combo trials as a suggestion, rather than a book of hard rules. I learn a combo from a combo trial that looks promising, and I find a way to make it work for every situation. If it doesn't, I modify the combo until it does.

[@Kpharaoh.]

i’ll do combo trials to learn the bnb combos or the fundamentals of the character then try making my own combos after

[@pennma1093]

i found strive to be the most annoying in it's mission mode, forcing all of them to be repeated 5 times makes the easy ones tedious and the difficult ones even more frustrating. same with the unclear objective trials like 'get x amount of hits/damage/health steal' since they just tell you that it's possible but no way of how to get there I like trials as a jumping off point where you see what the game thinks the character does and then you take that and implement it into what you can do. also while the strive custom trials is a great feature that really every game should have, i dont use it since the menus and navigation for it is so terrible

[@qmanchu]

Yeah it's by no means perfect but it's a great start. Also I agree, the UI for the combo trials is abysmal. To this day, I don't think I navigate it correctly

[@Bup1t]

i only use combo trials to figure out how to start combos, the rest i think of myself

[@omegawaffles7348]

i do the trials to learn how the character works if i’m truly struggling to figure out how they work even from just being in training mode. i only would remember the base of the combo and i’d go to training mode to add my own spin to it

[@thicboibigsmoke7220]

Ever since I picked up strive, which is the first time I’ve ever played a 2d fighting game PROPERLY, I’ve had fights with my friend who’s a floor 10, nearing celestial level. The learning experience was like no other. Losing again and again and again only to naturally find out what’s safe, what’s combinable, what Roman cancels are capable of, only to FINALLY start winning was one of the best moments I’ve ever had. I wipe the floor with the level the game thinks I’m at (floor 5 and 6) because I’ve just had so much practice with somebody who forces me to adapt to a high skill situation. I wouldn’t recommend this for people who get mad easily though because being locked out from playing the game because of ONE mistake can be infuriating, but it you have a strong will or blind stubbornness it can be really beneficial. TLDR: make friends with a high level player and constantly fight them and you’ll actually drastically improve through trial, error and practice.

[@Iwatoda_Dorm]

Hahaaaa~ fell into the trap of wanting to show Trackmania footage and resorting to a press forward only map. 📸 Anyways awesome video idea, it's super fun to watch people progressively get better at the game in their own way after I recommend it to them. I started off with an old game (MBBAACC) which definitely gave me a kickstart in consistent inputting but it definitely took much longer for me to get acclimated...

[@qmanchu]

Oh don't worry, it wasn't a trap! I did so because it shows how simple the game actually is! I knew what I was doing 😉 Nothing is more simple than holding forward haha

[@Iwatoda_Dorm]

@@qmanchu heh yea, I was kind of swept off my feet when I first learned that trackmania was "deterministic" which kind of just opened up my eyes to the idea of a skill based racing game. Great analogy (⁠ ⁠´⁠◡⁠‿⁠ゝ⁠◡⁠`⁠).

[@qmanchu]

@Oddly Even I played it for the first time for this video and it blew me away how good it actually is. I've had to resist binging it instead of working on my videos!

[@KB-ce6st]

I can see how players new to fighting games in general would find a video like this helpful, me playing Tekken semi seriously pretty late in the scene was super rough and wish I had something like this to help me get started. Sadly had to figure it out myself from countless online matches and some KZbin videos for help but Tekken honestly does a great job with their combo samples, which teaches you the basic fundamentals of starting a character's combos and what can chain into the combos. It's just a lot of practice and learning the game in general that leads to you having fun with it, and this applies to all fighting games.

[@J.J._777_]

8:08 "The game lied to you." This is absolutely insane to me. Games should be called out and publicly shamed when stuff like this happens.

[@qmanchu]

I wouldn't go that far personally but it definitely shouldn't be common practice.

[@yusuf8938]

Combo trials are definitely useful for beginners. Learning timings, possible combinstions, ect.

[@plutoburn]

Trials are just that, trials. In my mind, it's a test of your game/character knowledge and execution. They are never meant to be a learning experience for me, I'd go look up b&b combos for practical combos for beginner. That could be hard for the game devs to predict unless they are making the game extremely limited in some ways. The practical solution is to allow user-submitted trials online for people to download and play, and community could come up with trial combos that are suitable for beginners to learn.

[@qmanchu]

I wouldn't say they're never meant to be a learning experience. In tons of games they are. Granted, that's mostly a new thing. But don't you find it strange that you have to go to a resource outside of the game to learn something as integral as a BnB combo? I don't think it's hard for the devs to know what BnBs will be in their games. We see games like Uni literally incorporate combos pro players use into their trials. I think Melty Blood does something similar. The main reason mostly seems to be that it requires a lot of work to incorporate and probably update. So they can feel better off letting you use an outside resource like a wiki or youtube. I do agree about allowing players to upload combos though, I think GGST doing that is so cool

[@Connor.trashy]

I've been wanting to play fighting games for a long while, but I always thought I just sucked at them and would never be able to play well. Granblue fantasy has really been a nice beginner game that has teached me how to punish and to not panic and mash

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

Tekken 4 had the best trial thing I've ever played in a fighting game, the "practice" mode twenty moves, do them as fast as you can. Then you get a little arcade style top score screen that shows your top five best times. Allowing you to compete with yourself and train muscle memory. I may not have immediately understood what each move was for or when was best to use it. But I could actually *remember how do to inputs* which is a lot more than I can say for literally every other fighting game I played. Combining the moveset knowledge that practice mode helped me build with actually just playing the game I began to see how each move could/should be applied and it was a geniunely rewarding experience that really helped me get better at the game. The only problem is that the devs didn't think of it as a training tool despite calling it "practice mode" and it doesn't teach a lot of bread & butter moves. For some characters you end up learning a lot of just, geniunely bad moves. Leaving aside the issue of a fighting game having "bad" moves I think the best part is letting you compete against yourself and see your time get faster and faster. A combo trial is just a binary pass or fail. You either do the combo or you don't. Game sense and the ability to know when to do a thing can only be honed by playing the game.

[@DonteWilsonChrisDorner]

I already have a good comprehension of fighting games from playing them most of my life. So, combos and combo trials help me learn how moves work, what they do, and generally how they should be used.

[@perotekku]

Great video, just want to point out at 2:00, Korone has since gone on to main JP in SF6, and is getting pretty good. She had a lot of great coaching from the late Nanai.

[@qmanchu]

I've been watching! I watched that team tournament where she cried at the end and Nanai was cheering her one. Incredibly sad that he's gone

[@perotekku]

@@qmanchu Really suddenly too, tragic. Right after EVO, believe he even placed Top 8 in "Idol Showdown" maining Korone.

[@frostreaper2311]

These videos help me get more invested in getting good at FGs and are gonna be very useful notes moving forward as I try to compete

[@yygamma3905]

The struggle with practicing something only to use it in an actual situation and be stumped because the situation is different is something i actually struggle with in my art

[@brandon_yl_is_busted_af9316]

Brand new to classic fighting games. Found this video after grinding street fighter 6 trials for something like 9 hours straight, then going into a level 4 CPU match and getting bodied because I couldn't remember any of my combos. Time to switch it up and learn from a different angle!

[@icecreambone]

man i remember when people were saying that no amount of tutorials would ever teach people how to play fighting games. we've come so far

[@qmanchu]

In a way I still think that's true. Tutorials in fighting games should focus more on teaching you how to learn them, not necessarily how to play. They're so complicated that trying to explain every part of the game will get you nowhere

[@rapidemboar4625]

In a similar vein to the matchup trials you mentioned in the video, Guilty Gear AC+R on PC introduced an option where you can take over the controls during a replay to find ways to improve games you've already played. It's a really cool learning tool, and I think it could even be expanded upon to create custom matchup trials in the same vein as Strive's custom combo trials. I can actually see that being a fun and versatile mode where players not only show off gameplay highlights, but also purposefully engineer situations to teach new players skills and punishes, provide puzzle-like challenges for skilled players, and maybe even recreate notable tournament scenarios.

[@qmanchu]

Yeah Theory Fighter did a great video on that feature and I agree with you. It's possibly the most important feature to come out in the last 10 years

[@seanmccusker2282]

honestly... you've reinvigorated my drive to learn fighting games by teaching me about granblue versus's method. i easily learn the best when given a situation and allowed to develop my own solution to it

[@qmanchu]

Happy to help!

[@Hogsqueal]

Just bought GBFV:R and im so reassured in my purchase now after watching this lmao. cant believe that's the game you talked about doing it right, so glad i picked it up

[@karaokehammick5215]

For me the best approach early on in learning combos is to simply look at the special moveset in practice mode and string together my own combos. This forces me to learn what regular attacks the game allows me to cancel into specials. It also shows me what strength of specials I should use in order to complete a combo. I always a learn a simple but effective standing combo and a simple and effective jump in. it isn't about reinventing the wheel. It is about learning. I learn so much from this approach.

[@F3AR0FGOD]

I have a soft spot for video essays... but this one is TRULY amazing! Great work!

[@GriFFonRec4]

I don't really like older Anime games for this reason. I've been playing Guilty Gear for years, just mashing on buttons, but decided to take it a bit more seriously when Xrd Sign came out. I tried to learn via combo trials, and I never really got the hang of being consistent with combos. I played plenty of matches and all I could take away was I needed to hit my opponent 20 times and they only needed to hit me 3 times because they had better damage, oki, and set play (although I had NO IDEA this was the reason at the time mind you). It just felt like I was playing 1/16th of a character while they were playing a full one. The biggest issue I have is that combos are so droppable, mostly because of air teching, and there is no way to know how or why something dropped in a specific situation. Now GGST is the new modern Guilty Gear and now you cannot air tech. It's SOOOOO much more intuitive when a combo drops now because they literally fell and hit the ground. Any weird step you do to keep a combo going makes perfect sense because the entire goal is to keep them from hitting the ground before your next attack can come out. There is also the fact that there is a wall mechanic where if a combo is long enough and utilizes the wall for bounces it breaks. This gives you a goal when making your combos; hit your opponent enough times to get a wall stick and break the wall. I mean when Strive first came out there were no combo trials and Combo Maker wasn't even out. That said, just watching matches and seeing a move wall bounce inspired ideas naturally and juggling characters is already incredibly intuitive when trying to learn how to hit someone as many times as you can despite having limited cancel options. I'm SURE older anime games had intuitions to be had when you got to a high enough level of experience in the game, but I never reached that, even after 500+ hours of GG Xrd and 100+ or so in Blazblue games. It always felt completely random whether a combo would drop or not, and while I know now it was due to spacing, timing, and other things, it wasn't intuitive to learn. I mean hidden combo mechanics are basically what decide whether you had the frames to land that move before the tech window in the first place. Juggling just makes sense. They hit the ground, YOU'RE DONE. Up until that point and the world is your oyster, and have at it. If something doesn't work it's because they hit the ground before your move could come out, and not some arbitrarily tech window which is invisible and ever changing. This post is mostly about juggling, but overall games need to feel intuitive to play. A specific set of inputs should feel natural because they do a specific function and THAT'S why they combo. This string is great for launching them in the air, but is spacing dependent and requires the corner to get the most out of it. This string does less damage but is great at more ranges and works mid screen consistently. This string is great off Red Roman Cancel since the slowdown and airborne state of your opponent is extremely consistent and easy to confirm off of. You can literally learn like 3 combos and actually start learning the fighting game which is so much more than combos. Again, I''m sure older anime games have the exact same things to intuit, but it feels so much longer before you can get to the level needed to read that sort of thing for various mechanics are hidden from you.

[@ToniaGlitched]

16:25 OMG MARIAH THEME! now that's what I call a cool af coincidence, you've got good taste in music, fr

[@qmanchu]

Making these videos has helped me find tons of fantastic FG music lol

[@ToniaGlitched]

@@qmanchu that's really cool, liking fighting games, games as a whole tbh, also made me find a lot of great OSTs, a big part of which I can't experience yet as well, because I only have a ps2, a phone and a potato laptop

[@JupiterTarts]

We see something interesting like this too in real life martial arts. You'll often see guys that are masters at doing drills or katas or whatever. Then you throw some gloves on them and they have no idea how to pull it off anymore or even figure out how to set up that sick move they learned and they just throw them out there recklessly. Sometimes, just getting yourself comfortable in "the game" and all its weird situations (footsies, wake-ups, zoning) is the most important thing. When you're calm actually just playing the game with normals and specials, then you can start squeezing value out of your opportunities with combos. Otherwise, it's too much to think about at once.

[@TheRlDennis]

I've slowly been getting back into fighting games, last time I actively played a fighting game was Tekken 4 release. I find that my method of learning consists of going into a match, finding the most basic combo I can find. Like light punch, light punch low heavy kick that I did during SF6 open beta today. And as soon as I find something new I go back into training mode to find what I did, learn about that move and try to incorporate it into my next match. As soon as I feel like I'm not finding any new combo's I do the same thing. Go through and read the command list thoroughly. That's how I've been slowly getting the hang of characters in fighting games lately, It's a relatively gradual way of teaching but anything else just has me completely overwhelmed. Especially the combo guides on youtube that sometimes just use terminology I had never heard of. It's a pretty big leap going from trying to learn in game to trying to find a good guide that can help truly new players. Also it might just be me but I'd love if every fighting game would just include the button layouts of Xbox/Nintendo/Playstation even if it's not supported on that platform for people that have difficulty jumping between the 2. I had no clue what the SF6 beta wanted me to press on my playstation controller when it asked for Y

[@adambailey2342]

Maybe i'm not the most qualified to say this however when learning combos i usually try to find something that happens a lot things like 2K and go from there because just find a hit that comes up and practice a combo then try to hit in a match thats the way i've learned up until now and i'm floor 9 on guilty gear within like 3 weeks and swapping characters multiple times

[@underview8492]

I didn't even do the tutorials, I just started button mashing when I started playing Tekken TT2 in the Arcade with my friends. I found punishable moves, fast moves for punishing but since I was button mashing, I had no idea on how to execute the moves. So studied, tried to execute it. The challenge I'm facing is that I'm not good at making combos in real time. You see, Tekken has this High, Mid, Low points where a move hits. The key to making combos is that you need to hit the enemy without being punished. Juggling as they commonly say it. So in summary of my journey, Mashing -> Study of Moves -> Execution -> Combo making

[@tjhunter9787]

Was not expecting there to be a reference to Stand and Deliver but it was a welcome surprise

[@qmanchu]

One of the most influential movies of my life! Had to be in a video about learning in my opinion lol. Thanks for watching

[@Fant]

I loved Strive's online combo sharing feature. I know combo trials are not really practical to learn but hot damn I love doing them as a kind of puzzle. It's fun and very rewarding to achieve it in a vacuum.

[@DeathScyther006]

Combo trials are good for learning what a character’s moves are and how they can flow into one another. Even if you don’t use the exact trial combos in a match, then you can at least steal bits and pieces of them. I think you’re right that they can be improved, but I’m glad that most games have them.

[@alexlovehall7796]

I can’t lie, Trials are something I do for challenge or using in game tools to learn the character briefly. I tend to look up guides online, combo and character guides, and how pro players use the character and then play and practice. Combo Trials suck for actually helping you play unless they include the character guide sections Also, the arcade you showed at the beginning is Pinball Pete’s, which is in my hometown. I love it getting some screen time. Are you from the area cause that’s a very clear shot of the fighting games section

[@qmanchu]

Nah I'm not from the area. But it's such a recognizable arcade so it was easier to find footage of that.

[@unseeninja83]

I like combo trials not cause they teach me combos, but cause they teach me how the character can play alittle. Like I was playing KOFXV yesterday trying out blue Mary’s trials and I think it was the 3rd trial that I found out how to somewhat use charge attacks in a combo. But also looking closely at her forward kick didn’t just hit once but was a full animation. So I spent a good 10 min in that single trial seeing what attacks canceled the moves and what specials actualy kept the attack going.

[@RenceAsANoob]

I'm not much of a fighting game player, but I find it quite ironic that I learned more things in a video about fighting games than actually looking up tutorials of what things I want to learn lol

[@ryanlally8116]

You've just saved me ten hours of watching Anji combo guides on KZbin. Once I get the bread-and-butter stuff down, I'm gonna try experimenting on what I can do!

[@qmanchu]

Ayyy that's what I like to hear! There are some good combo guides out there but not just the ones with notations. If you can find one where someone breaks down their "why" that's a great guide

[@tomasclutterbuck2038]

I only ever played SF5/6 and DBFZ, and SF6 is wonderful at teaching the intended use of moves (pokes, pressure, combo openers, etc.) and the overall role the character plays into. I think it’s great that people can learn the actual fundamentals of fighting games in stead of hitting the wall of text that a combo list can be.

[@000wolf]

I agree that fighting games need to be less obfuscating in regards to accessible in-game information, but a lot of them also offer training modes in which you can recreate most in-match situations and scenarios. The problem with that is that most people do not know how to teach themselves and simply lack the proper information and resources and/or the will to seek them out. A provided glossary that is as in depth as a dustloop or mizumi would be fantastic, especially if were actually incorporated into a gameplay mode. I think Strive is on the right path though; allowing players to provide this kind of supplemental content, along with context, helps tremendously.

[@qmanchu]

Yeah teaching people how to actually use training mode is a whole other thing I'd love to see. SF6 coming with presets for training mode to practice anti airs and frame traps is so nice

[@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx]

Though I am very mad about any complement given to Granblue Fantasy, I now understand why anyone thinks it’s a good product. Fantastic video!

[@qmanchu]

I appreciate that! And yeah, it's kinda wild how much effort went into that game considering I thought it was just gonna be a cash grab

[@KiuhKobold]

One of my biggest difficulties with fighting game learning is the visuals not matching with the physical. What I mean is, while they are going P K HK P C HK, I'm trying to rewire my brain to connect that "Okay so P is punch, and that is Square on my controller". Halfway through that I just forgot what the combo was. Other difficulty is input sensitivity. I feel if I go a slight microscopic nudge on a quarter circle in any direction, I end up jumping when I don't want to and it screws everything up. I KNOW why sequences I must press, I just can't press them right.

[@SquirtleEatsAll]

The first fighting game trial mode and tutorial that actually taught me about the game was MK11. Their training and trials made me fall back in love with fighting games

[@greggersonny]

Dude thank you so much. Guilty Gear Strive is my first fighting game and I just glanced at “Missions” and thought “Well shit, I’m hardly competent enough to win against a Level 75 CPU, and they want me to do random missions with random characters?” without checking what it actually is. If I never saw this video in search of the legendary ways of “git gud,” I would’ve never known it’s an advanced tutorial

[@rustys0rcerer702]

Damn, this video actually cleared up so much trouble I was having learning new fighting games Now that I know I need to learn the *why’s* of games and not the *what’s or how’s*, I think I might actually have a better time learning!

[@qmanchu]

Wow! Really makes me happy to see that! Hope this helps

[@I_Love_Tekken3]

When I first got MK1, I didn’t even play the tutorial, I just went straight to story, figured it out, and then became a Scorpion main